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  1. #1
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    Default New BMW Hydrogen 7 Series


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    So you're going to get cryogenic hydrogen...how? Also, lol @ them not even considering the fact that the power benefits in your car for cryogenic hydrogen could not (based on fundamental thermodynamics) be greater than or equal to the energy needed to be spent to get it to that temperature in the first place. Electric vehicles>hydrogen fuel cell powered vehicles.
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    Quote Originally Posted by alfaroverall View Post
    So you're going to get cryogenic hydrogen...how? Also, lol @ them not even considering the fact that the power benefits in your car for cryogenic hydrogen could not (based on fundamental thermodynamics) be greater than or equal to the energy needed to be spent to get it to that temperature in the first place. Electric vehicles>hydrogen fuel cell powered vehicles.
    I highllllllllllllllllly doubt a reputable company like BMW didn't consider all the facts.

    L2Research. Asshole.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingHussien View Post
    I highllllllllllllllllly doubt a reputable company like BMW didn't consider all the facts.

    L2Research. Asshole.
    I didn't want to read that whole huge thread calling you out, so tell me, did you fight him or not?
    Proud clergyman of the holy decapitated head. He will lead us to the beta!

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    Fuck off.

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    Owned.
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    Quote Originally Posted by alfaroverall View Post
    So you're going to get cryogenic hydrogen...how? Also, lol @ them not even considering the fact that the power benefits in your car for cryogenic hydrogen could not (based on fundamental thermodynamics) be greater than or equal to the energy needed to be spent to get it to that temperature in the first place. Electric vehicles>hydrogen fuel cell powered vehicles.
    Hydrogen Fuel cells work fine if we can find a bunch of Hydrogen... too bad it reacts with everything too well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alfaroverall View Post
    So you're going to get cryogenic hydrogen...how? Also, lol @ them not even considering the fact that the power benefits in your car for cryogenic hydrogen could not (based on fundamental thermodynamics) be greater than or equal to the energy needed to be spent to get it to that temperature in the first place. Electric vehicles>hydrogen fuel cell powered vehicles.
    wouldn't that then be the same idea making hybrids better than pure electric? In hybrids the electric part recharges itself, saving loads of gas. Pure electric, once out of juice, has to go back to the socket... which gets its energy from a power plant... which (might) get its energy from a coal using power plant. In the end you are doing nothing for the environment. I'm not sure how much money you would save from switching to pure electric, would the gas bill (with a gas burning car) < electric bill (with electric car)?

    This thought just occurred to me... too lazy to look it up, on pure electric vehicles, do they use the same mechanism that hybrids use, in which, when you brake, the friction or w/e recharges the battery? Although you would clearly run out after time, you would definitely be more efficient with your energy use.

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    I like the push towards hydrogen, but I hate the lack of information on the site. I tried looking for a few minutes, never found anything that actually talks about... you know, HYDROGEN FUCKING POWER, so I left. can someone paste a link, or text? This seems pretty interesting.x

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ample View Post
    wouldn't that then be the same idea making hybrids better than pure electric? In hybrids the electric part recharges itself, saving loads of gas. Pure electric, once out of juice, has to go back to the socket... which gets its energy from a power plant... which (might) get its energy from a coal using power plant. In the end you are doing nothing for the environment.
    Actually, that's wrong, because a single powerplant is much more efficient than a gas powered car. So if the electric motor is pretty efficient as well, you're actually getting more mileage for less fossil fuels by going this route. And just wait until people actually start laying solar panels all over their houses, and integrating solar cells into their windows. Then electric vehicals are going to make a whole hell of a lot more sense.
    Last edited by Porthios; 06-06-2008 at 05:21.

  11. #11
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    sadly i am gonna partially and reluctantly back up hussein on his point....


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  12. #12
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    looks pretty neat

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  13. #13

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    I'd like to see more of their technology before I make a decision on this.
    It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingHussien View Post
    I highllllllllllllllllly doubt a reputable company like BMW didn't consider all the facts.

    L2Research. Asshole.
    It's actually much simpler.

    People hear hydrogen, they hear "next to zero emissions", and they have a joygasm. They want to feel like they're making a real difference, and since they can afford it, they buy the car. When in reality there has been a viable market for electric vehicles that are more energy efficient than hydrogen fuel cell vehicles (again, based on thermodynamics; electric cars is coal->power line->your house->your car, hydrogen is coal->power line->electrolysis device->shipping->your car, so inherently energy is lost during those extra steps, especially the electrolysis step) for decades.

    BMW knows this, so they know they can make a fortune selling these things if they can get them out on the market.

    I was gonna make the "the power plant is more efficient than the car engine" speech, but Porthios already made it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paralda View Post
    Hydrogen Fuel cells work fine if we can find a bunch of Hydrogen... too bad it reacts with everything too well.
    No one is postulating that we're going to find a bunch of hydrogen somewhere and use it in fuel cells. At the moment most hydrogen comes from fossil fuels. Within the reasonable future it would come from electrolysis of water. The only other truly reliable source that I could think of would be star mining, which is a ridiculous premise.
    Last edited by alfaroverall; 06-06-2008 at 12:43.
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    Quote Originally Posted by alfaroverall
    People hear hydrogen, they hear "next to zero emissions", and they have a joygasm. They want to feel like they're making a real difference, and since they can afford it, they buy the car. When in reality there has been a viable market for electric vehicles that are more energy efficient than hydrogen fuel cell vehicles (again, based on thermodynamics; electric cars is coal->power line->your house->your car, hydrogen is coal->power line->electrolysis device->shipping->your car, so inherently energy is lost during those extra steps, especially the electrolysis step) for decades.
    there is also other types of power, such as nuclear, hydro, wave, wind, sun etc.

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