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  1. #151
    9000+ PirateGlen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StainlessSteelRat View Post
    I didn't watch the entire video. I watched a portion in which they presented that case, the argument and original conclusion which aligned with their position.

    Regardless, you choose to find the MSC ruling as authoritative. They choose to find the original ruling authoritative. The fact that you call citing the original case as propaganda and the overturning as education is exactly what I was getting at in my post.

    Just b/c it was overturned doesn't make it wrong. And it certainly doesn't remove all educational aspects of it.
    They could find the voices in their head authoritative. None of that matters because the point is citing a lower court ruling as authoritative is misleading. It removes the educational aspect of it that counts. Idiots watch this and think the government and banks are acting in spite of institutionally authoritative judicial decisions. And that's what they intended by omitting the fact that it was overturned. If their point is that this is the true law and the judiciary is not upholding it, they should just say so. They don't because that's not their purpose, they want to mislead the gullible into agreeing with their conclusion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reigngod View Post
    Deductive reasoning has noing to do with logic. In fact deductive reasoning is illogical. Go define logic and come back to the discussion an educated man.

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by PirateGlen View Post
    They could find the voices in their head authoritative. None of that matters because the point is citing a lower court ruling as authoritative is misleading. It removes the educational aspect of it that counts. Idiots watch this and think the government and banks are acting in spite of institutionally authoritative judicial decisions. And that's what they intended by omitting the fact that it was overturned. If their point is that this is the true law and the judiciary is not upholding it, they should just say so. They don't because that's not their purpose, they want to mislead the gullible into agreeing with their conclusion.
    People are fallible. Courts are made up of people. Just b/c the powers that be support the MSC decision doesn't make it right. Like I said, you worship at the feet of supreme 'dudes in dresses'.

    I guess OJ really is innocent.....
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    If 3/4 of all the money spent on defense was diverted into education funds, public school would be dirt cheap
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    99% of human resource offices are paid for by grants (non-tax dollars).

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by StainlessSteelRat View Post
    People are fallible. Courts are made up of people. Just b/c the powers that be support the MSC decision doesn't make it right. Like I said, you worship at the feet of supreme 'dudes in dresses'.

    I guess OJ really is innocent.....
    So what? Whether judges are fallible has nothing to do with what I said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reigngod View Post
    Deductive reasoning has noing to do with logic. In fact deductive reasoning is illogical. Go define logic and come back to the discussion an educated man.

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by PirateGlen View Post
    So what? Whether judges are fallible has nothing to do with what I said.
    Of course it does. You claim authoritative high ground based on the opinion of one group of judges over another group.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrBungle View Post
    If 3/4 of all the money spent on defense was diverted into education funds, public school would be dirt cheap
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Sparrow View Post
    99% of human resource offices are paid for by grants (non-tax dollars).

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by StainlessSteelRat View Post
    Of course it does. You claim authoritative high ground based on the opinion of one group of judges over another group.
    Wrong. I merely agree with the other judges. My point was that they are presenting (deliberately) misleading (mis)information by failing to provide that sort of context, not that they're wrong because they disagree with some judges.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reigngod View Post
    Deductive reasoning has noing to do with logic. In fact deductive reasoning is illogical. Go define logic and come back to the discussion an educated man.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by PirateGlen View Post
    Wrong. I merely agree with the other judges. My point was that they are presenting (deliberately) misleading (mis)information by failing to provide that sort of context, not that they're wrong because they disagree with some judges.
    So you assume that the point is only convincing or of merit to the viewer if it's assumed that the ruling was not overturned.

    Perhaps. It doesn't affect me personally.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrBungle View Post
    If 3/4 of all the money spent on defense was diverted into education funds, public school would be dirt cheap
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Sparrow View Post
    99% of human resource offices are paid for by grants (non-tax dollars).

  7. #157

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    Quote Originally Posted by StainlessSteelRat View Post
    So you assume that the point is only convincing or of merit to the viewer if it's assumed that the ruling was not overturned.

    Perhaps. It doesn't affect me personally.
    No he is saying that by leaving out that important piece of information they intentionally trying to mislead or misinform watchers.

    Which makes everything suspect...

    In an honest presentation you give the full picture, but if you are trying to convince people of something not totally convincing then you leave out important points that may work against you.

    There is a big dif between something judges agreed to and something judges agreed to and then others overturned. The effect on swaying a random persons perception is completely opposite.
    Last edited by Mycke; 12-17-2012 at 19:56.
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  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by StainlessSteelRat View Post
    So you assume that the point is only convincing or of merit to the viewer if it's assumed that the ruling was not overturned.

    Perhaps. It doesn't affect me personally.
    I think it's less convincing to many people if they have the full context. The makers of this film knew that and deliberately omitted that important context. This all started when someone placed the film here to "educate". It's not educational nor persuasive to demonstrate that you could find an obscure court opinion that aligns with one's preexisting opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reigngod View Post
    Deductive reasoning has noing to do with logic. In fact deductive reasoning is illogical. Go define logic and come back to the discussion an educated man.

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by PirateGlen View Post
    I think it's less convincing to many people if they have the full context. The makers of this film knew that and deliberately omitted that important context. This all started when someone placed the film here to "educate". It's not educational nor persuasive to demonstrate that you could find an obscure court opinion that aligns with one's preexisting opinion.
    That's b/c your perspective is one based solely on the decisions of the courts. You ignore completely the merits of the argument and, if not the merits, the questions and issues the argument brings to light.

    Like I said, you value the process outcome too much and fail to consider the substance of the point that was made. It's very educational.

    Any information can sway the weak-minded. Like I said, those who share you view of authority may only be convinced by this out of context presentation.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrBungle View Post
    If 3/4 of all the money spent on defense was diverted into education funds, public school would be dirt cheap
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Sparrow View Post
    99% of human resource offices are paid for by grants (non-tax dollars).

  10. #160
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    Amurrica n1

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by StainlessSteelRat View Post
    That's b/c your perspective is one based solely on the decisions of the courts. You ignore completely the merits of the argument and, if not the merits, the questions and issues the argument brings to light.

    Like I said, you value the process outcome too much and fail to consider the substance of the point that was made. It's very educational.

    Any information can sway the weak-minded. Like I said, those who share you view of authority may only be convinced by this out of context presentation.
    This would only be true if I was informed exclusively by the fact that the supreme court of the state overruled some random judge and not by broader philosophical reasoning that refutes their argument. I didn't bother to contradict their opinion because the fact this video is misleading is enough reason to reject it as "educational". Finding some obscure court opinion is no more persuasive than simply stating it oneself. If the argument stands on its own there's no point to refer to the argument's clone in a lower court except to mislead viewers into believing it is authoritative. The video is making the claim to authority that you (ironically) tried to assert I was doing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reigngod View Post
    Deductive reasoning has noing to do with logic. In fact deductive reasoning is illogical. Go define logic and come back to the discussion an educated man.

  12. #162
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    Just because the Fiscal Cliff was not enough...

    GEITHNER SAYS U.S. WILL REACH STATUTORY DEBT LIMIT ON DEC. 31
    GEITHNER: WILL USE `EXTRAORDINARY MEASURES' TO AVOID DEBT LIMIT
    TREASURY: SPECIAL MEASURES TO MAKE $200 BLN  ROOM UNDER LIMIT
    GEITHNER: $200 BLN TO LAST TWO MONTHS IN `NORMAL CIRCUMSTANCES'
    GEITHNER: TAX, SPENDING `UNCERTAINTY' MAKES DURATION NOT CLEAR
    GEITHNER SAYS ALL MEASURES HAVE BEEN USED IN PRIOR IMPASSES
    GEITHNER OUTLINES PLANS IN LETTER TO SENATE MAJORITY LEADER
    So since America's dysfunctional congress failed to "rise above" the Fiscal Cliff, it at least succeeded to "rise above" the debt ceiling. One out of two is not too bad...
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  13. #163
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    Why do you post like a 10 yr old?
    Quote Originally Posted by MrBungle View Post
    If 3/4 of all the money spent on defense was diverted into education funds, public school would be dirt cheap
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Sparrow View Post
    99% of human resource offices are paid for by grants (non-tax dollars).

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