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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hallucinogenicz View Post
    Just because not all of them do that, and pick and choose which parts of their holy book they want to follow, does not mean the religion in general is not vile and poisonous to the world.
    I would like to see any examples from the Quran of vileness, any at all. The last quotation given on forumfall that had used a questionable translation along the lines of 'kill them wherever you find them' was shown by myself that the translation was purposely harsher than the actual translation and that the passage only spoke about some rules of engagement with two bedoiun tribes that were trying to wipe out the Muslims.

    So, I would suggest reading it before making such statements.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hallucinogenicz View Post
    I believe any religion that teaches 99% of their followers while they are a child at their most malleable time in life does not have good intentions. If you had good intentions, and a good message using logic, you would not have to teach 99% of your followers while they are children that is just ridiculous.
    Indeed, it should be applicable for someone who has not encountered it in early life but children need to be taught good values, which is why it should be taught in early life because that's when habits are shaped. Unfortunately humans do not always do what's best for them (smoking/drinking alcohol just for an example) but at the same time Islam recognises an individuals right to choose. Early in the Quran it states:

    There is no compulsion in religion. (2:257)

    It is the truth from your Lord; wherefore let him who will believe and let him who will disbelieve. (18:30)
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  2. #17
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    Yup, read the Koran years ago and I was impressed. When Islam is perverted to incite violence or whatever there's no scriptural justification for it. With the bible (old/new) however, you can justify pretty much anything.

  3. #18
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    you can justify pretty much anything depending on the interpretation of any passage of any "holy" book or whatsoever.

  4. #19
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    I would argue that words in general can be easily altered in such a way to distort the meaning, not just with religious scripture but also nowadays just like how Barack Obama made the speech that Government built infrastructure for businesses to be successful on and the Republicans twisted it as saying 'You didn't build that <business>'.

    Difficulty with the Bible is that it has already been translated from its original text a number of times so some things are lost in translation but others just need understanding of the context.

    For example, it mentions giants in both the Bible and also the Quran. It doesn't actually mean gigantic people but people who were dominant in their spheres of life such as technological, economic and societal standings for the age.
    Last edited by Swing; 09-18-2012 at 16:25.
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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swing View Post
    I would like to see any examples from the Quran of vileness, any at all. The last quotation given on forumfall that had used a questionable translation along the lines of 'kill them wherever you find them' was shown by myself that the translation was purposely harsher than the actual translation and that the passage only spoke about some rules of engagement with two bedoiun tribes that were trying to wipe out the Muslims.

    So, I would suggest reading it before making such statements.
    (2:257)

    It is the truth from your Lord; wherefore let him who will believe and let him who will disbelieve. (18:30)
    3:56 "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

    8:12 "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

    9:38-39 "O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place."

    9:123 "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."

    17:16 "And when We wish to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to the people of it who lead easy lives, but they transgress therein; thus the word proves true against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction."


    Like I said earlier, even the Muslim ambassador for England explained to Thomas Jefferson and John Adams since they are non believers they have the right to pirate their ships. You are telling me all of these people, even muslims, have the wrong translations? Not only that, but the entire sentences are mistranslated rater than just a few words? Also, you claim these statements of violence are in self defense, it does not look like that to me at all and I am very unbiased.

    If those are the wrong translations, I would be very interested in seeing you translate them correctly.
    Last edited by Hallucinogenicz; 09-18-2012 at 16:54.

  6. #21
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    The lost in translation thing is a myth. The giants mentioned in the old testament are literal giants. Like Goliath. The word is also used to refer to dead ancestors and is used clearly in that context elsewhere.

    Giant beds, giant weapons, giant people.. giants. It is not a mistake at all but is what the bible talks about.

    Giants are mentioned in the myths of almost every culture of the world. It's not strange at all they'd be mentioned in the bible, one of the oldest myths.

  7. #22

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    http://www.dejanlucic.net/How_to_Kil...ith_Video.html

    This is about a book called Torat Ha'Melech, or the King's Torah. It's about the laws concerning non-jews. A bunch of jewish religious leaders got to together to promote the book.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hallucinogenicz View Post
    3:56 "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

    8:12 "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

    9:38-39 "O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place."

    9:123 "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."

    17:16 "And when We wish to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to the people of it who lead easy lives, but they transgress therein; thus the word proves true against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction."


    Like I said earlier, even the Muslim ambassador for England explained to Thomas Jefferson and John Adams since they are non believers they have the right to pirate their ships. You are telling me all of these people, even muslims, have the wrong translations? Not only that, but the entire sentences are mistranslated rater than just a few words? Also, you claim these statements of violence are in self defense, it does not look like that to me at all and I am very unbiased.

    If those are the wrong translations, I would be very interested in seeing you translate them correctly.
    I would be happy to take a look at this when I get home.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hallucinogenicz View Post
    Like I said earlier, even the Muslim ambassador for England explained to Thomas Jefferson and John Adams since they are non believers they have the right to pirate their ships.
    Nothing in Islam gives the right for Muslims to steal from others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hallucinogenicz View Post
    You are telling me all of these people, even muslims, have the wrong translations? Not only that, but the entire sentences are mistranslated rater than just a few words?
    Usually you find the poor and illiterate commoner in say Pakistan listening to their religious leaders who mistranslate parts usually on purpose for monetary and political gain, in a country like Pakistan with over 50% below the poverty line that translates into many millions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hallucinogenicz View Post
    Also, you claim these statements of violence are in self defense, it does not look like that to me at all and I am very unbiased.
    I only refered to the one statement that someone leveled against Islam, I have a number of copies of the Quran with a number of translations and a number of commentaries as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by GirlyMan View Post
    The lost in translation thing is a myth. The giants mentioned in the old testament are literal giants. Like Goliath. The word is also used to refer to dead ancestors and is used clearly in that context elsewhere.

    Giant beds, giant weapons, giant people.. giants. It is not a mistake at all but is what the bible talks about.

    Giants are mentioned in the myths of almost every culture of the world. It's not strange at all they'd be mentioned in the bible, one of the oldest myths.
    I know larger humans have/do exist but I do not believe this is what the Bible is refering to.
    Last edited by Swing; 09-18-2012 at 17:08.
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  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swing View Post
    I would be happy to take a look at this when I get home.
    Awesome


    Quote Originally Posted by Swing View Post
    I only refered to the one statement that someone leveled against Islam, I have a number of copies of the Quran with a number of translations and a number of commentaries as well.
    Interesting, so which one do you believe in? How do you know which one to believe in?

    Quote Originally Posted by Swing View Post
    I know larger humans have/do exist but I do not believe this is what the Bible is refering to.
    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    holy shit
    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hallucinogenicz View Post
    Interesting, so which one do you believe in? How do you know which one to believe in?
    Sorry meant to say for different languages, all the English ones have the same translation.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hallucinogenicz View Post
    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    holy shit
    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    What's so funny? Masaai males tend to be about 7 foot, so to think slightly taller humans isn't outside the realm of possibility but by no means do I feel they would be like 20 foot.
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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swing View Post
    I know larger humans have/do exist but I do not believe this is what the Bible is refering to.
    It's not a matter of belief.

    When mentioning the Nephilim, they are called giants and the great men of old which is in line with what you are talking about.

    Rephaim are the actually giants, however.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hallucinogenicz View Post
    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    holy shit
    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tallest_people

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swing View Post
    What's so funny? Masaai males tend to be about 7 foot, so to think slightly taller humans isn't outside the realm of possibility but by no means do I feel they would be like 20 foot.
    How does being slightly over 7 feet tall make you a giant? All it means is you are a tall mother fucker, not a mythical giant. Of course now it comes down to what we define as a giant.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hallucinogenicz View Post
    How does being slightly over 7 feet tall make you a giant? All it means is you are a tall mother fucker, not a mythical giant. Of course now it comes down to what we define as a giant.
    Exactly, which is why I asked what was funny?

    But I gave my thoughts on what giant meant in the Bible and Quran but I will be leaving shortly and look into these parts later.
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  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swing View Post
    Exactly, which is why I asked what was funny?
    I assumed when you were talking about giants that you werent just talking about really, abnormally tall people rather than actual giants. A giant to me is at least like 10 feet tall, and not just tall but extremely powerful and muscular. Like when someone says they have a giant dick they dont mean its super skinny but really long lol. Bad example but still works haha

    Do you also believe humans back than lived over 200 years each? Ive meet a lot of religious people who believe that dumb shit.
    Last edited by Hallucinogenicz; 09-18-2012 at 17:45.

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