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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marilio View Post
    He does have a point though. The lack of formalities to request and study a loan did contribute to a shit ton of bad loans to be emitted.

    But then again, I can't waste my time educating a retard like you. Peace.
    He has no point and you have none either.

    The formalities were all there, they were ignored. It was not a lack of regulation, it was over-regulation and unenforced regulation.

    Why the fuck is a bank going to care if a loan can be repaid if the loan is going to be sold to F&F in a week?

    How dumb do you have to be to think that there were no requirement standards that had to be met to generate loans? That there is no review process in place? Are you that dense? You think they just handed money out to anyone that wanted to buy a house prior to 2008?

    Formalities existed to limit risk. F&F buying everything means no risk so no need to follow the formalities of making sure someone can pay back the loan. It's so fucking simple.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrBungle View Post
    If 3/4 of all the money spent on defense was diverted into education funds, public school would be dirt cheap
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Sparrow View Post
    99% of human resource offices are paid for by grants (non-tax dollars).

  2. #17

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    i need to stop posting after only reading one post.

    Private banks were the worst purchasers of toxic assets. Freddie and freedie came in and made the problem worse but the derivatives market was mostly a creation of the private market. Attempts to regulate it were squashed by Greenspan and other high ranking supply side economist.

    In the end the market would of responded by tanking. I guess you could call it a natural state of equilibrium or the market adjusting but it would be like calling a gaping wound the body adjusting to a shot gun blast and then getting pissed at Kevlar for interfering.
    Last edited by Wufiavelli; 09-13-2012 at 18:59.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wufiavelli View Post
    i need to stop posting after only reading one post.

    Private banks were the worst purchasers of toxic assets. Freddie and freedie came in and made the problem worse but the derivatives market was mostly a creation of the private market. Attempts to regulate it were squashed by Greenspan and other high ranking supply side economist.

    In the end the market would of responded by tanking. I guess you could call it a natural state of equilibrium or the market adjusting but it would be like calling a gaping wound the body adjusting to a shot gun blast and then getting pissed at Kevlar for interfering.
    I don't necessarily disagree w/ anything in your post but I do have two questions:

    1) What's your source on the claim that private banks were the 'worst' and what does that mean exactly?

    2) What derivatives market regulation would, in your mind, have prevented the crash?
    Quote Originally Posted by MrBungle View Post
    If 3/4 of all the money spent on defense was diverted into education funds, public school would be dirt cheap
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Sparrow View Post
    99% of human resource offices are paid for by grants (non-tax dollars).

  4. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by StainlessSteelRat View Post
    I don't necessarily disagree w/ anything in your post but I do have two questions:

    1) What's your source on the claim that private banks were the 'worst' and what does that mean exactly?

    2) What derivatives market regulation would, in your mind, have prevented the crash?
    A lot of the regulation that was pushing for was transparency. Most of the sales of derivatives were done by confusing the shit out the people. I am pretty sure that regulation would of had some sobering effect to the bubble.

    My source is that post, from an economist called dean baker. Very liberal but had a spit with Krugman over his support with housing policies and believed the Fed should or raised interest rates to prevent the bubble.


    Random non debate question. Under Austrian economics, when a bank goes under what happens to the debts owed to the bank?
    Last edited by Wufiavelli; 09-13-2012 at 19:28.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wufiavelli View Post
    A lot of the regulation that was pushing for was transparency. Most of the sales of derivatives were done by confusing the shit out the people. I am pretty sure that regulation would of had some sobering effect to the bubble.
    Eh? 'People' weren't buying derivatives. Derivatives were being traded by big business. What was not transparent about derivatives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wufiavelli View Post
    My source is that post, from an economist called dean baker. Very liberal but had a spit with Krugman over his support with housing policies and believed the Fed should or raised interest rates to prevent the bubble.
    Can you link it? (i'll google in the meantime)

    Quote Originally Posted by Wufiavelli View Post
    Random non debate question. Under Austrian economics, when a bank goes under what happens to the debts owed to the bank?
    They are collected and divided up between the bank's creditors based on legal rights/bankruptcy law.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrBungle View Post
    If 3/4 of all the money spent on defense was diverted into education funds, public school would be dirt cheap
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Sparrow View Post
    99% of human resource offices are paid for by grants (non-tax dollars).

  6. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by StainlessSteelRat View Post
    Eh? 'People' weren't buying derivatives. Derivatives were being traded by big business. What was not transparent about derivatives?



    Can you link it? (i'll google in the meantime)



    They are collected and divided up between the bank's creditors based on legal rights/bankruptcy law.
    Derivatives were being sold to tons of different organizations everything from Pension funds to small towns in Italy. There were no laws forcing companies to be honest with what was in the derivatives. Banks went to great lengths to hide information from customers. Check out the frontline documentary on it.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wufiavelli View Post
    Derivatives were being sold to tons of different organizations everything from Pension funds to small towns in Italy. There were no laws forcing companies to be honest with what was in the derivatives. Banks went to great lengths to hide information from customers. Check out the frontline documentary on it.
    If there was fraud, people would be suing. I still don't see how a derivative could be un-transparent. And pension funds/towns are 'big business'. Finance managers were buying these derivatives, not joe plumber.

    There's a ton of Frontline video on derivatives, can you be more precise?

    And, for example, are you claiming that P&G who sued Bankers trust bought derivatives but didn't know that the cost would increase if the Fed raised interest rates? That seems ludicrous that the cost/interest of the investment was hidden or non-transparent. Interest rates and how they are tied to the discount rate are the key components of any investment/loan. I just don't buy it. Even if there was misrepresentation/fraud by the bank, P&G was still irresponsible and did not perform due diligence.
    Last edited by StainlessSteelRat; 09-14-2012 at 14:22.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrBungle View Post
    If 3/4 of all the money spent on defense was diverted into education funds, public school would be dirt cheap
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Sparrow View Post
    99% of human resource offices are paid for by grants (non-tax dollars).

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangerdave View Post
    actually they called it deregulation the word fits perfect.

    I worked construction for the bush era and guess what? they were retardedly building homes so fast made the home loan process so deregulated they did this knowing it wouldn't work. Mitt Romney is a complete dipshit and will never become president.. Wait for the debates and his stolen tax returns to be decoded by the time that debate begins.. ROFLMAO WE ARE GOING FORWARD NOT BACK TO RETARDED REPUBLICANS.. Wait till the trillions of dollars from the bush house boom come to destroy america.
    the real problem behind this isn't the banking deregulation, it's the fact we have a fiat currency. We wouldn't need banking regulations like we do today if money was backed by gold and silver. Also Clinton has done more harm to our economy than Bush and Obama.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marilio View Post
    lol, nice Kool-Aid. Did you come with that little fantasy on yourself.

    Fannie Mae and Freddie bought and insured TOXIC home loans in an attempt to stabilize the market and avoid the onslaught of shit. Which, by the way, is not regulation by definition. Yes, you are retarded.

    But hey, it's always easy to look at the dumb picture, right Rat?
    You really missed a prime chance to throw out the best example of how regulations would of helped prevent the housing bubble. While I think we need less regulations across the board the one thing I have never said was we need less financial regulation, in fact, if we remain under a fiat currency we need more. But another big culprit in the housing bubble and the banks handing out loans like free candy was the fact credit companies gave AAA ratings to subprime derivatives and then letting people invest in them.

    Quote Originally Posted by StainlessSteelRat View Post
    If there was fraud, people would be suing. I still don't see how a derivative could be un-transparent. And pension funds/towns are 'big business'. Finance managers were buying these derivatives, not joe plumber.
    When credit rating companies give the derivative an AAA credit rating it's suppose to mean it's a very safe investment.
    Last edited by Makestro; 09-14-2012 at 22:51.
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  9. #24
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    This is a good documentary that explains how the banks and washington were working together to create the bubble that led to the disaster we have today.
    -Kael Trighton-

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makestro View Post
    When credit rating companies give the derivative an AAA credit rating it's suppose to mean it's a very safe investment.
    I know this. And they are regulated. It still shows that more regulation is not the answer and that deregulation was not the cause.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrBungle View Post
    If 3/4 of all the money spent on defense was diverted into education funds, public school would be dirt cheap
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Sparrow View Post
    99% of human resource offices are paid for by grants (non-tax dollars).

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by StainlessSteelRat View Post
    I know this. And they are regulated. It still shows that more regulation is not the answer and that deregulation was not the cause.
    So you're telling me a fiat currency would be "just fine": without regulation and babysitting? Pretty sure we're in this situation because of that exact ideology.

    Look, I'm a pretty red blooded archo-capitalist, but even I know a fiat currency needs regulation backing it or else shit like the housing bubble happens. If you do not truly understand the housing bubble I highly suggest educating yourself on why it had such a huge impact on the world economy. It's a lot deeper and fucked up than most people understand, and why I never supported the full deregulation of any market.
    Frumpy Lump's rage
    Quote Originally Posted by Silverhandorder View Post
    He said consumers make jobs appear. Let him explain how that happens.
    Quote Originally Posted by Death's Chill View Post
    I've done shit you probably would faint from even thinking
    Quote Originally Posted by Death's Chill View Post
    At least I get to fuck.
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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makestro View Post
    So you're telling me a fiat currency would be "just fine": without regulation and babysitting? Pretty sure we're in this situation because of that exact ideology.

    Look, I'm a pretty red blooded archo-capitalist, but even I know a fiat currency needs regulation backing it or else shit like the housing bubble happens. If you do not truly understand the housing bubble I highly suggest educating yourself on why it had such a huge impact on the world economy. It's a lot deeper and fucked up than most people understand, and why I never supported the full deregulation of any market.
    What this mofo said.
    We should celebrate March 2013 as the month Off-Topic went Full Retard.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marilio View Post
    What this mofo said.
    Truth hurts man, these wannabe Libertarians are so fucking stupid it pains me to even label myself one.
    Frumpy Lump's rage
    Quote Originally Posted by Silverhandorder View Post
    He said consumers make jobs appear. Let him explain how that happens.
    Quote Originally Posted by Death's Chill View Post
    I've done shit you probably would faint from even thinking
    Quote Originally Posted by Death's Chill View Post
    At least I get to fuck.
    http://www.twitch.tv/makestro

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makestro View Post
    Truth hurts man, these wannabe Libertarians are so fucking stupid it pains me to even label myself one.
    What this mofo said x2.

    Damn, we thuggin together today.
    We should celebrate March 2013 as the month Off-Topic went Full Retard.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makestro View Post
    Truth hurts man, these wannabe Libertarians are so fucking stupid it pains me to even label myself one.
    Actually it is you who has no fucking idea of what you are talking about. It was government policy to give bad loans.

    Edit: both Bush and Clinton set national goal to raise house ownership. They created incentives that will get bankers to give these loans out. It's not like all bankers fell for this. But government made sure the ones that did were picked as winners.
    Last edited by Silverhandorder; 09-15-2012 at 13:18.
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