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  1. #31
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    http://blogs.ajc.com/political-insid...h-care-reform/

    This guy sums up an initial reading of the judicial logic fairly well.

    That's an interesting part at the end about the threats of denying federal program funding not being legal. Does this precedent cross now to other areas like say the drinking age limit? I believe the Federal government threatens states with highway money if they don't comply to the age 21 rule...
    Last edited by Krag; 06-28-2012 at 18:23.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackhowitzer View Post
    Quote:
    In 1790, the very first Congress—which incidentally included 20 framers—passed a law that included a mandate: namely, a requirement that ship owners buy medical insurance for their seamen. This law was then signed by another framer: President George Washington.

    Quote:
    in 1798, Congress addressed the problem that the employer mandate to buy medical insurance for seamen covered drugs and physician services but not hospital stays. And you know what this Congress, with five framers serving in it, did? It enacted a federal law requiring the seamen to buy hospital insurance for themselves. That’s right, Congress enacted an individual mandate requiring the purchase of health insurance. And this act was signed by another founder, President John Adams.


    http://www.tnr.com/article/politics/...dable-care-act

    They also allowed Slavery.......by the gods....you've struck something here!!!

  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by doomahx View Post
    I believe $500 a month would still be cheaper than many procedures you would have to pay full price for without insurance. Not saying it’s right but electing to pay the more expensive premium may prove to be more cost efficient in the long run. Especially if you get cancer, AIDS or some other terminal illness. If that happens though at least you won’t be denied for having a preexisting condition when you go to sign up for insurance
    That's 500 dollars on top of the premium I already pay.

    Yeah, totally win-win. My costs will go up and now i'll barely be able to afford my mortgage. What could be better? Oh yeah, probably benefits will be reduced as well. But hey, pre-existing conditions are covered now, just to make sure all the fuck ups are definitely secured.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand Russell
    Unless you assume a God, the question of life’s purpose is meaningless.

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Battle Smurf View Post
    ya fuck the handicapped.the sick. the mentally ill. and the poor college studentss who can barely pay for school without assuming massive debt. lets just drown them all in puddles so we can save 1% of the money needed to fund our next pointless war.

    you and evrryone else who doesnt realize obama is trying to stop insurance and pharmacutical companies from totally fleecing the scared the sick and the dying sre heartless jackasses who deserve to get cancer so that in the off chance they do survive they live in debt and poverty regardless of having had "good" insurance thats assuming you dont get your coverage dropped when your provider finds out how sick you are and trys to claim cancer was a pre existing condition because if that happens there is no way you will be able to afford the massively overpriced drugs from the pharmacutical companies period.

    healthcare should never have been considered a commodity for profit anything obama can do to make this less of the case in usa the better!
    Being a college student is nothing like being handicapped or retarded. Those students took on that debt now its up to them to pay it. If you got a stupid degree and now cant get a good job that is your fault for studying stupid shit. Im tired of busting my ass while all these worthless tards expect to have everything handed to them. Got sick didnt have good insurance well you gambled and lost now die.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rokstarr View Post
    That's 500 dollars on top of the premium I already pay.
    Sadly what you currently have is probably still shit, despite costing a fortune.

    I had insurance that was $900+/mo from my employer and they fucking declined my $300 prescription when I went to use it after paying into it for 3 years. They mailed me a packet of paperwork to have my doctor fill out (another out of pocket cost to see the doctor to fill the form), which they claimed they would "review". Who the fuck are they to review what my doctor, who has his own liability insurance, and also saw me in person, recommended?

    Odds are the insurance company would look at your problem, if you had a severe one regardless of how long you've had the insurance, and decide whether to pay out, or tie you up in paperwork, or court (assuming you file) while they drop you onto the public system, as it is right now?

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krag View Post
    Kind of splitting hairs, one action is being subsidized at someone else's tax expense. The government social engineers like this all the time (such as with hybrids). Usually the tax emphasis is put on the positive action side of the equation, instead of the negative. Much easier to politically maneuever since it's usually a smaller target.

    Remember originally Republicans claimed it was a tax, which Obama very strictly denied in order to build political support. Instead Obama claimed it was a "penalty" which the feds have power to impose under interstate commerce clause. Republicans said no that's unconstitutional, and sued. The Supreme Court actually agreed with the Republicans in this regard, but the Dems fallback position of being liers about it being a tax was actually legal.

    So now it comes full circle, back to retail politics. Will voters punish Obama for lying? And for this unpopular plan being forced on them (remember, most polls show support for Obamacare as consistently below 50%)?
    Don't misunderstand me. The fact that your analogy doesn't fit makes the reality worse.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrBungle View Post
    If 3/4 of all the money spent on defense was diverted into education funds, public school would be dirt cheap
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Sparrow View Post
    99% of human resource offices are paid for by grants (non-tax dollars).

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by doomahx View Post
    I believe $500 a month would still be cheaper than many procedures you would have to pay full price for without insurance. Not saying it’s right but electing to pay the more expensive premium may prove to be more cost efficient in the long run. Especially if you get cancer, AIDS or some other terminal illness. If that happens though at least you won’t be denied for having a preexisting condition when you go to sign up for insurance

    In all serisness though. I’ll believe the higher premiums when I see them. I do not believe a word any Politician on either side says anymore, at all.
    You don't have to pay full price, healthcare is free. And in all seriousness, premiums have increased 9-12% already; prior to this decision.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziegler View Post
    They also allowed Slavery.......by the gods....you've struck something here!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by MrBungle View Post
    If 3/4 of all the money spent on defense was diverted into education funds, public school would be dirt cheap
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Sparrow View Post
    99% of human resource offices are paid for by grants (non-tax dollars).

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackhowitzer View Post
    Quote:
    In 1790, the very first Congress—which incidentally included 20 framers—passed a law that included a mandate: namely, a requirement that ship owners buy medical insurance for their seamen. This law was then signed by another framer: President George Washington.

    Quote:
    in 1798, Congress addressed the problem that the employer mandate to buy medical insurance for seamen covered drugs and physician services but not hospital stays. And you know what this Congress, with five framers serving in it, did? It enacted a federal law requiring the seamen to buy hospital insurance for themselves. That’s right, Congress enacted an individual mandate requiring the purchase of health insurance. And this act was signed by another founder, President John Adams.


    http://www.tnr.com/article/politics/...dable-care-act
    Care to cite the actual acts in question instead of gurgling the koolaid?

    Unlike Britain, Americain the 1790s lacked a strong navy. Merchant ships were the navy. Congress used the Marque and Reprisal Clause to give private merchant ships the power to attack and seize enemy vessels during war. In June 1798, as a result of the Quasi-War withFrance, Congress abrogated existing treaties withFrance and authorized merchant ships to attack French vessels. This change meant that “all merchant seamen were potentially engaged in the military struggle,” Hamburger notes. A month later, Congress enacted the 1798 law to fund naval hospitals and care for seamen as a part of the war effort. With the creation of a professional military, the marine hospital system was replaced by an official uniformed service—the U.S. Public Health Service Commissioned Corps.

    Second, this fee is akin to a tariff, not a purchase mandate. The sailors weren’t buying anything. Instead, a fee was assessed from a specific group (sailors engaged in commerce with foreign ports). The government used those funds to provide a limited range of medical care at specific hospitals for those sailors. Unlike Obamacare, which requires every American to own a certain product, the sailors never owned anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrBungle View Post
    If 3/4 of all the money spent on defense was diverted into education funds, public school would be dirt cheap
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Sparrow View Post
    99% of human resource offices are paid for by grants (non-tax dollars).

  9. #39
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    Looks like the majority of this thread are against it

    I'm not saying I'm against it, nor for it, but I'm curious to see what effects it will have.

  10. #40
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    Ahh "interstate commerce", the fucking loophole to the entire constitution.

  11. #41
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    I honestly cannot see how anyone could feel that Obamacare is a good thing. While I could potentially support a single payer system in the US this legislation is just a mess. Mark my words costs are going to rise in a big way.

    I have been a big supporter in removing the two party system. Sadly this legislation is a step in that direction but not in the way I had hoped. We know Washington has become the puppet to corporations these past few decades and this just set a bad precedent. Now the federal government can tax you if you do not purchase a service that it has deemed necessary from a private business.

    What will be next? We all must purchase vitamins, electric cars, and a brown dog named sam or we will be taxed? Our two part system is doomed, next up Kraft, Walmart, Microsoft, Facebook, whatever corporate party!

  12. #42
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    This is just a small first step to hopefully taking out the biggest problems of healthcare in America. And that is the "for profit" system and insurance companies all together.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanhoe View Post
    This is just a small first step to hopefully taking out the biggest problems of healthcare in America. And that is the "for profit" system and insurance companies all together.
    Once can be optimistic but I just cant see it happening anytime soon. Who is going to donate tens/hundreds of millions of dollars in support of the patient to campaigns or lobbyists? Now who would be willing to donate tens/hundreds of millions of dollars to insure they maintain their share in a trillion+ dollar industry.

    Sadly politics all comes down to money and not in the interest of the people.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baralis View Post
    Once can be optimistic but I just cant see it happening anytime soon. Who is going to donate tens/hundreds of millions of dollars in support of the patient to campaigns or lobbyists? Now who would be willing to donate tens/hundreds of millions of dollars to insure they maintain their share in a trillion+ dollar industry.

    Sadly politics all comes down to money and not in the interest of the people.
    Yea it is all about money which is sad.

  15. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by tehWise View Post
    Sadly what you currently have is probably still shit, despite costing a fortune.

    I had insurance that was $900+/mo from my employer and they fucking declined my $300 prescription when I went to use it after paying into it for 3 years. They mailed me a packet of paperwork to have my doctor fill out (another out of pocket cost to see the doctor to fill the form), which they claimed they would "review". Who the fuck are they to review what my doctor, who has his own liability insurance, and also saw me in person, recommended?

    Odds are the insurance company would look at your problem, if you had a severe one regardless of how long you've had the insurance, and decide whether to pay out, or tie you up in paperwork, or court (assuming you file) while they drop you onto the public system, as it is right now?

    Correct, my current insurance is shit. Not looking forward to paying more for it. And considered caddillac lawl!
    Last edited by Rokstarr; 06-28-2012 at 20:35.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand Russell
    Unless you assume a God, the question of life’s purpose is meaningless.

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