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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by -=GiMiK=- View Post
    No, Obama will send us further down the toilet by making more bad lending and spending choices and by not cutting the obese federal government. Also he will continue to stomp on the American people's rights, either by more inane legislation designed to limit personal choice or through non regulation of the banks. (Federal Reserve) Keep supporting someone who throws more money we don't have at people who don't need it.





    Hurray for WELFARE!!!!!




    The courts have been bought.
    you must be talking about Citizen United where UNLIMITED funds from coroprations (who magicly support Republicans) are givin to BUY elections so they can get THEIR legislation passed........................... and take a look at the last few times our country went into a decline economicly, what was done to stem the tide?? oh yah GOVERMENT SPENDING!!!!!!

    we hired more goverment workers and did more things to PROMOTE government to ENCOURAGE the country to move foreward and create more jobs while building up the country ( IE: Infrastructure). please stop saying that cuts of goverment and tax breaks for the rich are the way to fix shit... then it would have been fixed years ago.

  2. #17
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    The big issue in the US is healthcare is subsidized through employers (who get the tax breaks for insurance). That's a really arcane method that leaves a lot of people who don't work for larger corporations out of the loop in uninsured situations.

    John McCain actually had the right idea in his 2008 campaign proposing to end the employer insurance subsidy regime and giving everyone personal tax breaks or vouchers or something instead to even out the distortions.

    BTW Smurf you are really exaggerating. Most colleges have student plans, disabled people get extra tax breaks. Maybe you're not as smart as you think you are, and most people do understand it, and understand how much it stinks?

  3. #18
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    Now the federal government has the power to impose a tax upon you for not doing something they want you to do.

    They want you to buy more brocilli....mandate it and if you dont, then we will tax you....if you dont pay the tax, then we confiscate your property and imprison you.


    Mark my words right here and now, this is only the beginning, both sides of the aisle will abuse this new granted power with glee and abandon.

    We wont force you to buy a gun and keep it in the house at all times, but if you dont, we will tax you for not doing it.



    If you think this is a good thing...you have no idea what America used to be.

    also... Obama himself told us it wasnt a tax. Check out 2:30

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziegler View Post
    Now the federal government has the power to impose a tax upon you for not doing something they want you to do.

    They want you to buy more brocilli....mandate it and if you dont, then we will tax you....if you dont pay the tax, then we confiscate your property and imprison you.


    Mark my words right here and now, this is only the beginning, both sides of the aisle will abuse this new granted power with glee and abandon.

    We wont force you to buy a gun and keep it in the house at all times, but if you dont, we will tax you for not doing it.



    If you think this is a good thing...you have no idea what America used to be.

    also... Obama himself told us it wasnt a tax. Check out 2:30
    Well it already exists... Let's takae the government tax credit for buying a hybrid car. If you purchase a non-hybrid car, you lose your potential tax credit, so it could be said to that you're getting an extra tax for not buying a hybrid. There's nothing in the constitution about this.

    What Obama will have to answer for in November is lying to the people about it not being a tax (republicans said it was, he insisted very strongly it wasn't), and also the fact that it is still widely unpopular, and this does not make it more popular. This is how the issue should be settled, at the ballot box.

  5. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziegler View Post

    We wont force you to buy a gun and keep it in the house at all times, but if you dont, we will tax you for not doing it.

    It's kind of funny you mention that. Didn't one of the first few presidents support mandatory gun ownership? I guess we can't expect anything different if the forefathers of our country did it.
    Last edited by doomahx; 06-28-2012 at 17:23.

  6. #21
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    about time you ameriturds get a proper health care system.

    no surprise you bitch about it
    Quote Originally Posted by Marilio View Post
    You can't educate people that do not want to be educated.
    Quote Originally Posted by Apex Vertigo View Post
    Dunning-Kruger, showing the internet as a parody of the human race since 1999.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krag View Post
    Well it already exists... Let's takae the government tax credit for buying a hybrid car. If you purchase a non-hybrid car, you lose your potential tax credit, so it could be said to that you're getting an extra tax for not buying a hybrid. There's nothing in the constitution about this.
    It's not the same. Excise taxes have existed forever and are levied on things as opposed to people (indirect vs direct). An indirect tax credit on buying a hybrid does not make buying a non-hybrid an indirect tax; no additional tax is owed from the transaction. In addition, the healthcare tax is levied on people for doing nothing. So if people were taxed every year for not buying a hybrid, then you would have analogous situations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Krag View Post
    What Obama will have to answer for in November is lying to the people about it not being a tax (republicans said it was, he insisted very strongly it wasn't), and also the fact that it is still widely unpopular, and this does not make it more popular. This is how the issue should be settled, at the ballot box.
    Assuming the mass of idiots that voted for Obama last time b/c of all the 'free' stuff he was giving them don't show up again, we can always hope this will happen.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrBungle View Post
    If 3/4 of all the money spent on defense was diverted into education funds, public school would be dirt cheap
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Sparrow View Post
    99% of human resource offices are paid for by grants (non-tax dollars).

  8. #23

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    I, for one, as a middle class citizen, look forward to paying 500 dollars a month more for my premium.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand Russell
    Unless you assume a God, the question of life’s purpose is meaningless.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rokstarr View Post
    I, for one, as a middle class citizen, look forward to paying 500 dollars a month more for my premium.
    Fuck that, pay the 1% tax.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrBungle View Post
    If 3/4 of all the money spent on defense was diverted into education funds, public school would be dirt cheap
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Sparrow View Post
    99% of human resource offices are paid for by grants (non-tax dollars).

  10. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by StainlessSteelRat View Post
    Fuck that, pay the 1% tax.
    I believe $500 a month would still be cheaper than many procedures you would have to pay full price for without insurance. Not saying it’s right but electing to pay the more expensive premium may prove to be more cost efficient in the long run. Especially if you get cancer, AIDS or some other terminal illness. If that happens though at least you won’t be denied for having a preexisting condition when you go to sign up for insurance


    In all serisness though. I’ll believe the higher premiums when I see them. I do not believe a word any Politician on either side says anymore, at all.
    Last edited by doomahx; 06-28-2012 at 18:10.

  11. #26

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    Quote:
    In 1790, the very first Congress—which incidentally included 20 framers—passed a law that included a mandate: namely, a requirement that ship owners buy medical insurance for their seamen. This law was then signed by another framer: President George Washington.

    Quote:
    in 1798, Congress addressed the problem that the employer mandate to buy medical insurance for seamen covered drugs and physician services but not hospital stays. And you know what this Congress, with five framers serving in it, did? It enacted a federal law requiring the seamen to buy hospital insurance for themselves. That’s right, Congress enacted an individual mandate requiring the purchase of health insurance. And this act was signed by another founder, President John Adams.


    http://www.tnr.com/article/politics/...dable-care-act
    Pi-piru-piru-piru-pi-piru-pi-pi-piru-piru-piru-pi-piru-pi-pi-piru-pi-pi
    This'll explain everything: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kL3remBDiy0
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  12. #27
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    When government can initiate it's own power expanse, there is no end to the bullshit that will follow.

    It's one thing to have to insure your car, but to insure your body? FUCK YOU. It's my body. Leave me the fuck alone. I actually take care of myself, so I don't require health insurance but the odds that I would get sick or in an accident are low enough not to warrant throwing my money away every month.


    Yummy.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by StainlessSteelRat View Post
    It's not the same. Excise taxes have existed forever and are levied on things as opposed to people (indirect vs direct). An indirect tax credit on buying a hybrid does not make buying a non-hybrid an indirect tax; no additional tax is owed from the transaction. In addition, the healthcare tax is levied on people for doing nothing. So if people were taxed every year for not buying a hybrid, then you would have analogous situations.
    Kind of splitting hairs, one action is being subsidized at someone else's tax expense. The government social engineers like this all the time (such as with hybrids). Usually the tax emphasis is put on the positive action side of the equation, instead of the negative. Much easier to politically maneuever since it's usually a smaller target.

    Remember originally Republicans claimed it was a tax, which Obama very strictly denied in order to build political support. Instead Obama claimed it was a "penalty" which the feds have power to impose under interstate commerce clause. Republicans said no that's unconstitutional, and sued. The Supreme Court actually agreed with the Republicans in this regard, but the Dems fallback position of being liers about it being a tax was actually legal.

    So now it comes full circle, back to retail politics. Will voters punish Obama for lying? And for this unpopular plan being forced on them (remember, most polls show support for Obamacare as consistently below 50%)?

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Battle Smurf View Post
    obviously should have been upheld and as one of the few people on either side who actually understands whats in the bill and knows for a fact how it will positively affect me i can say im glad.

    now obama can win in november and push legislation augmenting it for the better ( legislation that was originally intended but removed in attempt to be more bipartisan) but sinnce republicans have shown almost childlike stubborness to help or even let this sdministration fix our broken country. i believe that obama will no holds barred steamroll the more controvertial legislation and disregard the rights protests. nothing pissed me off more then watching democrats and obama desperately try to appease repubs only for the republicans to refuse to let the govrrnment do its job and ignore all the democrats compromises.

    just need to make sure obama wins so he gets the oppurtunity to do whats best for our nations future now that he can make the tough calls without owrrying about reeldction.

    if more americans actually understood the healthcare debate and how this bill would really affect them it would be far more popular. its sad that fox news and the republicans are able to twist facts so badly that they trick the average person into voting againdt their own best intrests.

    the republican party is going to have to take a good look in the mirror if obama wins because in 2016 its going to be even harder for republicans once the less informed citizens have a chance to see the good done by the democrats.
    1.6 trillion dollar deficit. rising unemployment, rising food stamp usage, penalties, fines, more red tape on businesses prompting them to shut down, reduce workers, or move overseas.

    The country is fucked. Not that Romney is much better. Choose your form of country wide apocalypse, sit back and enjoy the carnage.


    Yummy.

  15. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Death's Chill View Post
    1.6 trillion dollar deficit. rising unemployment, rising food stamp usage, penalties, fines, more red tape on businesses prompting them to shut down, reduce workers, or move overseas.

    The country is fucked. Not that Romney is much better. Choose your form of country wide apocalypse, sit back and enjoy the carnage.
    Or just enjoy today because a drunk driver could kill you tonight.

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