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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by StainlessSteelRat View Post

    I will say it's unfortunate to see some people are still under the illusion that the business practices you are afraid of were actually in place b/c of gov't and gov't regulation, not b/c of free markets.
    slavery was due to government intervention in the markets?

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by StainlessSteelRat View Post
    I will say it's unfortunate to see some people are still under the illusion that the business practices you are afraid of were actually in place b/c of gov't and gov't regulation, not b/c of free markets.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ziegler View Post
    slavery was due to government intervention in the markets?
    Read it again. Are you going to pretend that slavery was not gov't enforced?
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    If 3/4 of all the money spent on defense was diverted into education funds, public school would be dirt cheap
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  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by StainlessSteelRat View Post
    Read it again. Are you going to pretend that slavery was not gov't enforced?
    no, it wasnt....enforced....
    It was protected by government, but it wasnt enforced. Enforcing something implies demanding it take place or required. It was neither. It was allowed and the government....protected this free market principle from being outlawed or dismantled. But no, the US government didnt require slavery be enacted or practiced.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziegler View Post
    no, it wasnt....enforced....
    It was protected by government, but it wasnt enforced. Enforcing something implies demanding it take place or required. It was neither. It was allowed and the government....protected this free market principle from being outlawed or dismantled. But no, the US government didnt require slavery be enacted or practiced.
    US Government returned slaves to their owners. That is as good as enforced gets.
    "What, you think just because you need it means you have a right to take mine?"


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    I should get ahead of the curve and ban you now then...

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziegler View Post
    no, it wasnt....enforced....
    It was protected by government, but it wasnt enforced. Enforcing something implies demanding it take place or required. It was neither. It was allowed and the government....protected this free market principle from being outlawed or dismantled. But no, the US government didnt require slavery be enacted or practiced.
    You are confusing mandated/forced with enforced.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrBungle View Post
    If 3/4 of all the money spent on defense was diverted into education funds, public school would be dirt cheap
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    99% of human resource offices are paid for by grants (non-tax dollars).

  6. #96
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    What people were the main influence behind trans Atlantic slave trade?

    I just love to tease.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bissen View Post
    What people were the main influence behind trans Atlantic slave trade?

    I just love to tease.
    Stop diverting, it's already ludicrous to even mention slavery in a conversation about free market economics.

    Take the gov't endorsed and enforced slave trade to a thread about history.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrBungle View Post
    If 3/4 of all the money spent on defense was diverted into education funds, public school would be dirt cheap
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Sparrow View Post
    99% of human resource offices are paid for by grants (non-tax dollars).

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by StainlessSteelRat View Post
    You are confusing mandated/forced with enforced.
    multiple meanings. semantics.

    1.to put or keep in force; compel obedience to: to enforce a rule; Traffic laws will be strictly enforced.
    2. to obtain (payment, obedience, etc.) by force or compulsion.
    3. to impose (a course of action) upon a person: The doctor enforced a strict dietary regimen.
    4. to support (a demand, claim, etc.) by force: to enforce one's rights as a citizen.
    5. to impress or urge (an argument, contention, etc.) forcibly; lay stress upon: He enforced his argument by adding details.

    But I still stand by my contention that slavery is the ultimate form of a free market. It's the cheapest labor and if you have no morals, then you need not be concerned with the feelings/rights/needs of the labor force. If they dont like it, they can escape.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziegler View Post
    multiple meanings. semantics.

    1.to put or keep in force; compel obedience to: to enforce a rule; Traffic laws will be strictly enforced.
    2. to obtain (payment, obedience, etc.) by force or compulsion.
    3. to impose (a course of action) upon a person: The doctor enforced a strict dietary regimen.
    4. to support (a demand, claim, etc.) by force: to enforce one's rights as a citizen.
    5. to impress or urge (an argument, contention, etc.) forcibly; lay stress upon: He enforced his argument by adding details.

    But I still stand by my contention that slavery is the ultimate form of a free market. It's the cheapest labor and if you have no morals, then you need not be concerned with the feelings/rights/needs of the labor force. If they dont like it, they can escape.
    Fine, semantics... but law enforcement is not generally viewed as imposing a course of action on someone.

    Anyway, you can stand by it all you want. A free market requires two sides agreeing to an exchange of goods/labor for a price. Voluntary slavery isn't slavery by definition so....... Slavery in a free market is an oxymoron.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrBungle View Post
    If 3/4 of all the money spent on defense was diverted into education funds, public school would be dirt cheap
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Sparrow View Post
    99% of human resource offices are paid for by grants (non-tax dollars).

  10. #100

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    sso delivers again.

    he must be a troll. noone can think that way without his brain evaporating.

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by StainlessSteelRat View Post
    Fine, semantics... but law enforcement is not generally viewed as imposing a course of action on someone.

    Anyway, you can stand by it all you want. A free market requires two sides agreeing to an exchange of goods/labor for a price. Voluntary slavery isn't slavery by definition so....... Slavery in a free market is an oxymoron.
    When I get a speeding ticket...that is the police imposing the speed limit on me. With force if necessary.

    Free Market: A market economy based on supply and demand with little or no government control. A completely free market is an idealized form of a market economy where buyers and sellers are allowed to transact freely (i.e. buy/sell/trade) based on a mutual agreement on price without state intervention in the form of taxes, subsidies or regulation.


    Without Government intervening and making slavery illegal, it works in a free market and is the ideal situation...nearly free labor...you still have to maintain the equipment(slave)...but it is as cheap as you can get for labor. If we go one step above that, and say slavery is illegal only...then indentured servitude is next, and it's almost as good as slavery. But that fucking evil govenment intervenes and says nope...indentured servitude is illegal as well....

    fucking governments...messing with the markets...those evil bastards, how could they?

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziegler View Post
    When I get a speeding ticket...that is the police imposing the speed limit on me. With force if necessary.

    Free Market: A market economy based on supply and demand with little or no government control. A completely free market is an idealized form of a market economy where buyers and sellers are allowed to transact freely (i.e. buy/sell/trade) based on a mutual agreement on price without state intervention in the form of taxes, subsidies or regulation.


    Without Government intervening and making slavery illegal, it works in a free market and is the ideal situation...nearly free labor...you still have to maintain the equipment(slave)...but it is as cheap as you can get for labor. If we go one step above that, and say slavery is illegal only...then indentured servitude is next, and it's almost as good as slavery. But that fucking evil govenment intervenes and says nope...indentured servitude is illegal as well....

    fucking governments...messing with the markets...those evil bastards, how could they?
    Well, either English is not your first language or you are insane.

    where buyers and sellers are allowed to transact freely

    Did you miss this part? Do you not realize that the "seller" in the labor agreement is the worker? Do you not realize that freely choosing slavery is an oxymoron? Or did you think slaves chose to be sold into slavery in exchange for room and board?
    Quote Originally Posted by MrBungle View Post
    If 3/4 of all the money spent on defense was diverted into education funds, public school would be dirt cheap
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Sparrow View Post
    99% of human resource offices are paid for by grants (non-tax dollars).

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by StainlessSteelRat View Post
    Well, either English is not your first language or you are insane.

    where buyers and sellers are allowed to transact freely

    Did you miss this part? Do you not realize that the "seller" in the labor agreement is the worker? Do you not realize that freely choosing slavery is an oxymoron? Or did you think slaves chose to be sold into slavery in exchange for room and board?
    The seller is the slaver. You're attributing morality to the slaves. There is no place for morality in a free market. If I have a slave to sell, and you want to buy it, then it is a free market transaction. You're giving the slave rights and freedoms, you cant do that in a free market, because rights and freedoms comes from a moral standpoint. There are no rights and freedoms in a free market unhindered by government intervention or morals. As a buyer unhindered by morals or government intervention, I dont have to care about the slave or his feelings or wants or needs. I purchased him, he belongs to me.
    Last edited by Ziegler; 06-01-2012 at 15:58.

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziegler View Post
    The seller is the slaver. You're attributing morality to the slaves. There is no place for morality in a free market. If I have a slave to sell, and you want to buy it, then it is a free market transaction. You're giving the slave rights and freedoms, you cant do that in a free market, because rights and freedoms comes from a moral standpoint. There are no rights and freedoms in a free market unhindered by government intervention or morals. As a buyer unhindered by morals or government intervention, I dont have to care about the slave or his feelings or wants or needs. I purchased him, he belongs to me.
    You are very confused. There is nothing in a free market that makes people become property. This gratuitous injection of a slave market into your free market analysis still holds no water.

    Free market economics don't create slave markets. A 'seller' is a slave trader in a slave market. We are talking about labor markets in a free market. In a labor market, the worker is the seller, they are selling their labor to business (the buyer). Both parties must agree to the terms of the deal. There are no slave traders spontaneously popping into existence....

    Nor does a free market eliminate inalienable rights.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrBungle View Post
    If 3/4 of all the money spent on defense was diverted into education funds, public school would be dirt cheap
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Sparrow View Post
    99% of human resource offices are paid for by grants (non-tax dollars).

  15. #105
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    Not confused at all. You dont like the fact that in a "free market" with absolutely no morals, and no restrictions....slavery is very possible. Only if you have some morals do you see slavery as distasteful.

    But your contention is that the free market should be amoral and so should the government.

    Without morals, there are no rights just the law of the jungle. We can keep going back and forth but it's not going to do any good, you're not going to admit that your free market without any morals or beliefs justifies slavery because you might have to admit that a little morality or regulations is a good thing.

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