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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryClock View Post
    The university uses government money, regardless, to fund research and cover other expenses. Research is probably put at around half a billion for UdM and McGill.
    Research is good, but it should be funded by the private sector. They tend to be a hell of a lot more efficient and knowledgeable about what the people will actually use than government are.

    Students typically pay 300 bucks per semester course. Given standard class sizes of around 40-50 people, that nets 15-20k per class for a professor. Since professors teach around 3-4 classes per semester he would earn 120-160k, covering his salary as well as maintenance and administration.
    Maintenance and administration consume a hell of a lot more than you seem to give credit to. Teacher's pay is far from the only serious factors for a school budget. Certainly doesn't leave them with anywhere near a six figure salary unless the government subsidizes it.

    In Ontario universities, we pay roughly 3-4x as much. More than half of that goes towards research and other expenses.
    Yep. Quebec students are so entitled that when fees go up in such a way that they'll be "slightly" higher after 5 years than the rest of the country, they start a quarter of a million student protest. Holy shit, talk about overacting.

    You assume society must run every institution like a bank, cut the losses and fuck all for anything that incurs debt even if its a beneficial service. Evidently you do not realize that a society can produce something for the sake of its benefits, such as primary school or elderly pension.
    No, it merely should be sustainable. Debt is not sustainable. It incurs interest and eventually must be paid back. Why bother with it? society still moves forward if we don't partake in debt management, possibly at a slower pace but there's hardly any rush. The turtle wins the long race and life is one hell of a long one.

    I am in favor of middle schools and high schools, mainly because kids can't exactly get a job nor should they have to, to pay for it themselves. And you can't trust parents do fork over the bill because a large quantity of kids exist without having been planned at all. Product of stupidity, human impulses, lack of protection and alcohol.

    University level education though, is different. People who want to attend are adults who are most certainly capable of getting a job to pay for it themselves. It promotes discipline, character, fiscal management, everything that parents refuse or are incapable of teaching their kids. Life itself tends to be the best teacher as long as there are no safety nets. It was for me.

    You should stop trying to conceal your self-esteem by attacking the alleged stupidity of everyone round you.
    Why? I can do both and it gets the point across.


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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryClock View Post
    With that said, comparing average public sector salary with private salaries in Quebec shows that government workers on average make 7k more. Not a significant amount, and comparing university/college educated government workers, they make even less.
    Actually 7k more is significant when you have 900,000 public workers in the province!
    http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tabl...ovt62c-eng.htm

    If they were paid average wages for their field instead of golden wages, that would save over 6 billion. Enough to close the budget deficit (and run a surplus) or give everyone a 10% tax cut. So fuck these guys, some clerk or planner in Quebec city who is getting overpaid and we are running up debt, and enduring heavy taxation to overpay him. BTW I wonder if your 7k figure is just salary or includes benefits, including pension.

    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryClock View Post
    Given that, looking at federal spending on provinces shows that the government could spend a bit more of our oil and Toronto-financial money.

    The federal government reduces its deficit roughly 8 billion a year, subsidizing maybe 1-1.5 billion a bit more isn't a difficult.

    Quebec though, is a bit clunkier than other provinces but they don't have the power industries that Ontario and Alberta have, chiefly finance and oil.
    Not even sure what you're trying to say here... That thing you link to shows that the govt is spending more on poorer provinces.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryClock View Post
    You assume society must run every institution like a bank, cut the losses and fuck all for anything that incurs debt even if its a beneficial service. Evidently you do not realize that a society can produce something for the sake of its benefits, such as primary school or elderly pension.
    You realize the calculation that is done to determine whether something is a benefit in the first place is done as if the bank is doing it. The pros and cons are weighted.
    "What, you think just because you need it means you have a right to take mine?"


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    Quote Originally Posted by Methuselah View Post
    I should get ahead of the curve and ban you now then...

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Death's Chill View Post
    No one is saying that tuition money is spent inefficiently, but that's because of government subsidizing. Students barely pay half of the total costs to run universities and those costs rise as more and more people decide they need to go to university even when they have no talent or clue what they want to do in their life.

    This is unsustainable. Not everyone should get a higher level of formal education. Not everyone needs to. And if you think you do after weighing heavily the pros and cons of the choice, you either get a job, work your ass off, sacrifice and put money away so that you can afford to go, or take out a risky bank loan that is serious business and go.

    Either way, you can't just jump in after high school with an easy government student loan.

    People don't get it and I find it funny now. I barely have a high school level education and I am powering on passed them while they argue about the coming apocalypse of "high" tuition fees when they don't even get why they're rising.
    367k spent to make 10 showers for the agricultural minister, 150$ for shower sheets. And after that they ask students to pay more. Like I'd fucking trust theses shit with a penny. Vive le travail au noir, tabarnak.

    Even a seperatist should recognize until this issue is fixed, Quebec cannot stand on its own, so all ideologies should be for reform of this area. The government class and its union-mafia is looting the future of Quebec.
    that statement isnt true only for Québec. pensions are what? 17 or 19% of Canada's expenses?

    The problem is this started about students complaining about rising tuition fees which, again, are a normal consequence of increased demand for schooling.

    If the protests now are all about corrupt government that's different.
    Actually it started with student association saying: Why the fuck should we pay when they waste money left and right for retarded reasons?

    You assume society must run every institution like a bank, cut the losses and fuck all for anything that incurs debt even if its a beneficial service. Evidently you do not realize that a society can produce something for the sake of its benefits, such as primary school or elderly pension.
    even banks dont work that way entirely.

    Just like Sandoz making a narcotic they actually lose money making (morphine If I remember well) but attracts hospitals because nobody wants to buy their medication from 15 pharmaceuticals so they buy everything from them.

    With that said, comparing average public sector salary with private salaries in Quebec shows that government workers on average make 7k more. Not a significant amount, and comparing university/college educated government workers, they make even less.
    For every penny put in his pension, a judge receive 9.1 from the government. If you're not offended by that I dont know what could.

    Yep. Quebec students are so entitled that when fees go up in such a way that they'll be "slightly" higher after 5 years than the rest of the country, they start a quarter of a million student protest. Holy shit, talk about overacting.
    OMFG just shot yourself already. 82% increase is not slightly not by any measure.

    No, it merely should be sustainable. Debt is not sustainable. It incurs interest and eventually must be paid back. Why bother with it? society still moves forward if we don't partake in debt management, possibly at a slower pace but there's hardly any rush. The turtle wins the long race and life is one hell of a long one.

    I am in favor of middle schools and high schools, mainly because kids can't exactly get a job nor should they have to, to pay for it themselves. And you can't trust parents do fork over the bill because a large quantity of kids exist without having been planned at all. Product of stupidity, human impulses, lack of protection and alcohol.

    University level education though, is different. People who want to attend are adults who are most certainly capable of getting a job to pay for it themselves. It promotes discipline, character, fiscal management, everything that parents refuse or are incapable of teaching their kids. Life itself tends to be the best teacher as long as there are no safety nets. It was for me.
    How many countries are debt free in the world?

    Taiwan, Macau and Liechtenstein are the only nations in the world without external debts. However a few countries dont have public debts
    Last edited by Amelia Del; 05-24-2012 at 00:14.
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  5. #20

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    Link for you ignorants that have no idea why this strike is necessary.

    70% of new jobs in Canada demand a formal education greater than highschool. Students have no choice but to go through this if they want a chance to be prosperous.

    Canada and Ontario have insane deficits SOLELY because of tax cuts for corporations. This will limit our spending even more in the future, as we're also faced with de-instrialization, and an obscene immigration policy based on increasing gdp while lowering gdp/capita.

    You idiots that support the status quo don't realize this is just bankers stealing from us with money they created out of thin air.
    http://forums.darkfallonline.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=380771&date  line=1345590091

  6. #21
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    you are an idiot. go create another thread to QQ about kkkapitalism.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amelia Del View Post
    367k spent to make 10 showers for the agricultural minister, 150$ for shower sheets. And after that they ask students to pay more. Like I'd fucking trust theses shit with a penny. Vive le travail au noir, tabarnak.

    that statement isnt true only for Québec. pensions are what? 17 or 19% of Canada's expenses?

    Actually it started with student association saying: Why the fuck should we pay when they waste money left and right for retarded reasons?

    even banks dont work that way entirely.

    Just like Sandoz making a narcotic they actually lose money making (morphine If I remember well) but attracts hospitals because nobody wants to buy their medication from 15 pharmaceuticals so they buy everything from them.

    For every penny put in his pension, a judge receive 9.1 from the government. If you're not offended by that I dont know what could.

    OMFG just shot yourself already. 82% increase is not slightly not by any measure.

    How many countries are debt free in the world?

    Taiwan, Macau and Liechtenstein are the only nations in the world without external debts. However a few countries dont have public debts
    this, this, this and this.

    Death have just zero of what he's talking about. "Only 254 or 325 more $ per year, this is a slight increase". It's fkn 82% after 7 years. And while the majority of the current students will not have to pay tuition fees of 182% for any of their remaining studying years, all the next generations will suffer from it. 82% is not a slight increase. And if as a people we decide to accept this, what will happen in 7 years? Will they increase it by another 82%?

    The main reason the students are protesting right now, as Amelia said, is because they are asked to pay more, while the current government is squandering our public funds and our natural resources left and right without any common sense. It is corrupted as fuck. Everybody knows the construction industry is, and everybody knows a bunch of politicians are involved in this shit, but oh no, the prime minister doesn't think that it's a good idea to do a public commission on the matter, even if the majority of the population wants him to do it.

    It's not the younger boomers that will go on the streets to denounce all of this, let alone the older ones. They are happy with what they have. They got their houses, their 2 cars, their boats, their RVs, their cottages somewhere at a lake, and they live on their crazy pensions. And while we all know that we will have to pay for their debt of hundred billions dollars, they dare use the argument that "the students all have iphones, so they must be able to pay for the increase".

    It's just the beginning. Now they are protesting against the increase, but look when they'll start protesting actively against the famous Plan Nord of Charest (the project of 1 generation!!!), it will gets ugly. It's the beginning of a revolution that we have here. Already 100 days has passed, and it's still as strong at it was at the beginning.

  8. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krag View Post
    you are an idiot. go create another thread to QQ about kkkapitalism.
    Dude, you're intellectually bankrupt, you actually believe that anyone who doesn't agree with you is "wrong." Guess what, 2/3's of Canada does not support HarperCon. Deal with it.
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  9. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryClock View Post
    http://www.montrealgazette.com/busin...336/story.html

    Dwarfing most Occupy protests. The Montreal protests have spread like wildfire, tinging even Ontario as I've seen a few solidarity protests around. This comes as no surprise since I've seen three student rallys and marches so far at my campus.

    So, 250k students in the city with the absolute most students per capita in NA.

    Reasons for protest come amidst the projected 75% student tuition increase.

    Here's a video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIO4FgXN1CY
    1. they are students .. how do they go on strike?

    2. a 75% increase? so they finally ran out of other peoples money and the students have to pay for more of their own education? Oh the horror.

  10. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveStunTueur View Post
    this, this, this and this.

    Death have just zero of what he's talking about. "Only 254 or 325 more $ per year, this is a slight increase". It's fkn 82% after 7 years. And while the majority of the current students will not have to pay tuition fees of 182% for any of their remaining studying years, all the next generations will suffer from it. 82% is not a slight increase. And if as a people we decide to accept this, what will happen in 7 years? Will they increase it by another 82%?

    The main reason the students are protesting right now, as Amelia said, is because they are asked to pay more, while the current government is squandering our public funds and our natural resources left and right without any common sense. It is corrupted as fuck. Everybody knows the construction industry is, and everybody knows a bunch of politicians are involved in this shit, but oh no, the prime minister doesn't think that it's a good idea to do a public commission on the matter, even if the majority of the population wants him to do it.

    It's not the younger boomers that will go on the streets to denounce all of this, let alone the older ones. They are happy with what they have. They got their houses, their 2 cars, their boats, their RVs, their cottages somewhere at a lake, and they live on their crazy pensions. And while we all know that we will have to pay for their debt of hundred billions dollars, they dare use the argument that "the students all have iphones, so they must be able to pay for the increase".

    It's just the beginning. Now they are protesting against the increase, but look when they'll start protesting actively against the famous Plan Nord of Charest (the project of 1 generation!!!), it will gets ugly. It's the beginning of a revolution that we have here. Already 100 days has passed, and it's still as strong at it was at the beginning.
    What crazy pensions? Have you seen a Canada pension cheque? Not that I endorse pensions.

    Students are protesting because they have to pay what a University decides to charge. It's moronic. You have a choice to not go if you feel they are charging too much.

    We already have too many people with university degrees in Canada. Check any call center. Plus a high amount of immigrants have degrees.

    We need more trades people. Alberta has started to become the UN at certain places because they can't find certain skilled trades.

    By all means though, keep trying to put a square where a circle should be.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milo Hobgoblin View Post
    1. they are students .. how do they go on strike?

    2. a 75% increase? so they finally ran out of other peoples money and the students have to pay for more of their own education? Oh the horror.

    Actually. Bankers stole the money that was intended to be invested in education. It's austerity. Socialist should be mad at this. Conservatives should be mad in general.

  12. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Forker View Post
    Dude, you're intellectually bankrupt, you actually believe that anyone who doesn't agree with you is "wrong." Guess what, 2/3's of Canada does not support HarperCon. Deal with it.
    Most people don't support any government. It doesn't matter whether it is "conservative" or "liberal". Two sides of the same fucking coin either way.
    Last edited by Damedius; 05-24-2012 at 02:23.

  13. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bissen View Post
    Actually. Bankers stole the money that was intended to be invested in education. It's austerity. Socialist should be mad at this. Conservatives should be mad in general.
    I thought the canadian university system was subsidized through taxpayer dollars?? How did bankers steal that? (Not being sarcastic... Im really curious)

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Damedius View Post
    What crazy pensions? Have you seen a Canada pension cheque? Not that I endorse pensions.
    govt worker pensions, not canada pension plan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Damedius View Post
    What crazy pensions? Have you seen a Canada pension cheque? Not that I endorse pensions.
    I've no idea about Canada, we're talking about Quebec here. People on the private sector has to work to build their pensions. People on the public sector have paid pensions. For example, alot of people working for Hydro Quebec will win 70% of their salary each year after they'll be retired. If that's not crazy, I don't know what this is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Damedius View Post
    Students are protesting because they have to pay what a University decides to charge. It's moronic. You have a choice to not go if you feel they are charging too much.
    First, Universities are not companies, they are public institutions. We, the people, decide what will be the costs of our public programs. Investing in education has proven to be good in several countries. That being said, if you were aware of the situation in Quebec here, you would know that the students are protesting because on one side they are asked to pay more, but on the other side they see the shitty administration throwing their and their parents money by the windows.

    Quote Originally Posted by Damedius View Post
    We already have too many people with university degrees in Canada. Check any call center. Plus a high amount of immigrants have degrees.

    We need more trades people. Alberta has started to become the UN at certain places because they can't find certain skilled trades.

    By all means though, keep trying to put a square where a circle should be.
    Fine, then try to find a way to encourage people to work with their hands. Raise the quotas for some university programs where there's too much people, and give a good reason for people to work on the trades where there's not enough people. There's no reason why it should be the poorer people who get those jobs, unless that's what they want to do.

    You know, if you're wise enough, you'll manage to fit the square inside the circle slot, instead of crying that it doesnt fit in.

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