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  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldest View Post
    No more random rolls, yes. No more durability, no sir.
    Why?

  2. #32

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    what you are proposing would require an overhaul to almost the entire system, and would not really improve things

    a crafter who just started crafting full plate would be on the same level as someone who has been doing it since release, because trueforge wouldn't matter

    the randomness we could do without, especially weapons and enchants

    having a full bank is not an issue for the average player, and if it gets that far, it is time to trade, vendor, or destroy less desirable items

    durability seems to be a good way to manage producers vs consumers without pissing off the majority of players... to have them potentially last forever does not help crafters... nor does it help the player who spent hours farming to build a dragon armor set, who disconnects and comes back to find they have to go back out now for a few more hours after recovering their gear

    if the reward has a chance of breaking, the risk becomes less worth it

  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatdane View Post
    what you are proposing would require an overhaul to almost the entire system, and would not really improve things

    a crafter who just started crafting full plate would be on the same level as someone who has been doing it since release, because trueforge wouldn't matter

    the randomness we could do without, especially weapons and enchants

    having a full bank is not an issue for the average player, and if it gets that far, it is time to trade, vendor, or destroy less desirable items

    durability seems to be a good way to manage producers vs consumers without pissing off the majority of players... to have them potentially last forever does not help crafters... nor does it help the player who spent hours farming to build a dragon armor set, who disconnects and comes back to find they have to go back out now for a few more hours after recovering their gear

    if the reward has a chance of breaking, the risk becomes less worth it
    You have a point there. Personally I'm not much of a crafter but I guess it's entirely possible that people would miss having their name on the item they made and the extra 20% durability.

    It could be kept along with items being destroyed on death, just the percentage of the items would have to be tweaked to account for the turnover from durability loss.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greatdane View Post
    to have them potentially last forever does not help crafters...
    Well, that potentially is a tricky thing. Right now people stop grinding down weapons and armor when they are about 20-25 dura and after that use them for PVP only. In normal play those items can survive up to 10 fights (and even more), no matter if the owner lives or dies, in that case they just change hands. With 20% items destroyed on death on average every 5 fights a set is completely destroyed. See the difference?
    Sure, potentially a certain item might not be destroyed for a long time, but it just means that other items would be destroyed more often evening out the situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greatdane View Post
    nor does it help the player who spent hours farming to build a dragon armor set, who disconnects and comes back to find they have to go back out now for a few more hours after recovering their gear
    Well, here you take a rare and what's more out of game cause and use it as an argument for an in game balance decision. That's not an argument to consider.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greatdane View Post
    if the reward has a chance of breaking, the risk becomes less worth it
    I'm guessing you misused a word here, I think you meant:
    "if the reward has a chance of breaking, the time/effort spent getting it becomes less worth it".

    Sure, so what?
    Last edited by alfar1; 04-01-2012 at 20:30.

  4. #34

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    no, I meant that if you kill someone wearing full dragon, it's not worth as much reward since items will break

    and usually, the higher tier or rarer the item is, the more innate durability it has on it to ensure it lasts a decent amount of time compared to cost... it'd be kind of silly to have someone craft a racial weapon and the first death it gets deleted, so nobody can use it

    so I feel like your system doesn't really fix anything, and just transfers problems to a different area

    if someone took the time to grind a weapon down to pvp dura, they had to do it somewhere... find where they do it, and get the item there while it has more dura left, or do the same thing yourself if you feel you're only going to last for 5 fights
    Last edited by Greatdane; 04-02-2012 at 00:09.

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by alfar1 View Post
    Why?
    Crafters would go out of business.
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldest View Post
    Crafters would go out of business.
    Do they have a business, in the current game?

    Economy is broken, Vendors is what will mend it by putting a stopper in the Time Sink that drags it down. Randomness of Durability or Item loss won't break it nor mend it.


    And in regard to Item Sink?

    Huge Item Loss Quota: Supply down, price up. Value of Item down, Demand down, as they go to cheap Substitute PvE gear. (People won't care much about items as they break anyway, why they won't spend much money on them.)

    Items that you get to keep: Supply stable, price stable. Value of item Up, Price Up. Demand of items Down, price Down. (People will throw away cheap items and use expensive items, as they are not worn down.)

    So, it isn't as easy as just make items go away quickly, to make demand rise, especially as you compete with PvE gear and even with Starter Weapons as if items are too expensive to lose they won't wear them except when they think they can win. (Which for Newbs and Mid-levels currently is only in PvE as the Power Gap is too great, and also making equipment for PvP needless for Vets if they jump Newbs as they can slay armies of them even while Nekkid.)


    To make Price rise, you need to make items be worth enough to buy them (good enough to make a difference, also having quality levels relative to PvE substitutes, as well as last long enough to warrant the investment) as well as keep Supply down by other methods than reducing Item Value by Item drain and low efficiency output, while at the same time have an Item drain balance that makes new investments needed.

    And, to make Trade rise, you need to make the Work input cost (Time Sink of Trade regarding profits in other areas such as PvE, as well as Risk vs Reward for unsafe trades) be competible, i.e. put in Player Vendors so Crafters can focus on Crafting and Merchants focus on finding great deals and transporting goods (from Village Vendors as well as across seas and land if Regional Banking is implemented), instead of standing around all days shouting out what they sell, and then even need to travel to the customer over dangerous terrain (which is likely costly in Mounts if not else) as well as likely to be Tradeganked if trading outside NPC cities. Or even within NPC Cities sometimes, as they allow Duels/Clan Wars within City Limits!
    Last edited by Lord Zeb; 04-02-2012 at 09:17.
    And furthermore: Fix the Alignment & Race Wars, put in Vendors even Newbs can sell stuff from, improve the GUI and put in Momentum in combat (“Headless-chicken” & “Bunnyjumpshooting” people are silly), and a LOT of players will return.

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Zeb View Post
    Do they have a business, in the current game?

    Economy is broken, Vendors is what will mend it by putting a stopper in the Time Sink that drags it down. Randomness of Durability or Item loss won't break it nor mend it.


    And in regard to Item Sink?

    Huge Item Loss Quota: Supply down, price up. Value of Item down, Demand down, as they go to cheap Substitute PvE gear. (People won't care much about items as they break anyway, why they won't spend much money on them.)

    Items that you get to keep: Supply stable, price stable. Value of item Up, Price Up. Demand of items Down, price Down. (People will throw away cheap items and use expensive items, as they are not worn down.)

    So, it isn't as easy as just make items go away quickly, to make demand rise, especially as you compete with PvE gear and even with Starter Weapons as if items are too expensive to lose they won't wear them except when they think they can win. (Which for Newbs and Mid-levels currently is only in PvE as the Power Gap is too great, and also making equipment for PvP needless for Vets if they jump Newbs as they can slay armies of them even while Nekkid.)


    To make Price rise, you need to make items be worth enough to buy them (good enough to make a difference, also having quality levels relative to PvE substitutes, as well as last long enough to warrant the investment) as well as keep Supply down by other methods than reducing Item Value by Item drain and low efficiency output, while at the same time have an Item drain balance that makes new investments needed.

    And, to make Trade rise, you need to make the Work input cost (Time Sink of Trade regarding profits in other areas such as PvE, as well as Risk vs Reward for unsafe trades) be competible, i.e. put in Player Vendors so Crafters can focus on Crafting and Merchants focus on finding great deals and transporting goods (from Village Vendors as well as across seas and land if Regional Banking is implemented), instead of standing around all days shouting out what they sell, and then even need to travel to the customer over dangerous terrain (which is likely costly in Mounts if not else) as well as likely to be Tradeganked if trading outside NPC cities. Or even within NPC Cities sometimes, as they allow Duels/Clan Wars within City Limits!
    Why do I get the feeling that all your posts are shameless plugs for your market ideas?
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  8. #38
    2000+ Zalasahr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldest View Post
    Why do I get the feeling that all your posts are shameless plugs for your market ideas?
    Because this Point "the Economy" has to be a lot bigger factor in Darkfall 2.0 as now it. Not less PvP we need but we need more factors what can people do that they can say i have "success" in this game.. = more people in Darkfall = more PvP global = more fun for all. All this need an extrem view to balance it.
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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zalasahr View Post
    Because this Point "the Economy" has to be a lot bigger factor in Darkfall 2.0 as now it. Not less PvP we need but we need more factors what can people do that they can say i have "success" in this game.. = more people in Darkfall = more PvP global = more fun for all. All this need an extrem view to balance it.
    Pvp would occur if the game would be balanced , and therefore , populated.

    i dont think it's about gear durability at all seriously.

  10. #40
    4000+ M.Easy's Avatar
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    it's always the terrible players and the worthless newbs who want to make the rules and change the game

    only if the true and active pvpers took the time to write novels on balancing and offering suggestions... this game... would... :/

    sadly, they are busy enjoying the game.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldest View Post
    Why do I get the feeling that all your posts are shameless plugs for your market ideas?
    As I am currently not launching a business venture, I guess that you are talking about all the posts where I use my extensive knowledge of economic theory by applying it in solutions regarding Darkfall in the in-game economic sector?

    I have loads of "ideas" regarding the Economy that I have posted over the years, so I think you need to be a little bit more specific.
    Last edited by Lord Zeb; 04-02-2012 at 23:07.
    And furthermore: Fix the Alignment & Race Wars, put in Vendors even Newbs can sell stuff from, improve the GUI and put in Momentum in combat (“Headless-chicken” & “Bunnyjumpshooting” people are silly), and a LOT of players will return.

  12. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Zeb View Post
    As I am currently not launching a business venture, I guess that you are talking about all the posts where I use my extensive knowledge of economic theory by applying it in solutions regarding Darkfall in the in-game economic sector?

    I have loads of "ideas" regarding the Economy that I have posted over the years, so I think you need to be a little bit more specific.
    =) I'm just trolling
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  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by M.Easy View Post
    it's always the terrible players and the worthless newbs who want to make the rules and change the game

    only if the true and active pvpers took the time to write novels on balancing and offering suggestions... this game... would... :/

    sadly, they are busy enjoying the game.
    The gigantic and mighty population of pvpers left on both servers are a great exemple of how this pvp mmorpg was very successfull at gathering crowds with their balanced so-called pvp.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by M.Easy View Post
    it's always the terrible players and the worthless newbs who want to make the rules and change the game

    only if the true and active pvpers took the time to write novels on balancing and offering suggestions... this game... would... :/

    sadly, they are busy waiting for 2.0.
    There we go. I agree with you.

    No durability? Shitty idea, enough has already been said. Won't happen anyway.
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    all i agree with is random items getting destroyed when ganked.

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