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  1. #46

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    these crafter/traders are going to hit the same brick wall that currently exists

    once they've amassed a small fortune, they'll realize that there's nothing really for them to spend it on, and end up quitting the game anyway

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatdane View Post
    you're delusional if you think the game will be broken and everyone is going to quit playing darkfall because they're able to craft anything they want
    Oh, yeah, you're right, it's not happening...

    Quote Originally Posted by Greatdane View Post
    if someone wants to be a hermit and not associate with any one, farming and gathering on their own, grinding and making their own equipment, and then going out to solo pve/pvp- who is this hurting?
    It's naive to think about a single player without thinking to the effect of the master of all trades (literally in this case) design to the whole game economy environment.
    I don't blame you for that, even the masterminds of Aventurine made that mistake (i've heard that even Fallen Earth made the same mistake).
    Last edited by lkx; 03-25-2012 at 16:41.
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  3. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by lkx View Post
    Oh, yeah, you're right, it's not happening...



    It's naive to think about a single player without thinking to the effect of the master of all trades (literally in this case) design to the whole game economy environment.
    I don't blame you for that, even the masterminds of Aventurine made that mistake (i've heard that even Fallen Earth made the same mistake).
    you seriously think the population levels have fallen because the economy? and do you really think you're going to draw that many players back to the game by changing it?

    people that did quit due to the economy were more than likely influenced by a lack of supply than lack of the option to sell their merchandise, and limiting tradeskills will not help supply at all

    there are plenty of other games that limit what you can do, and the original concept of darkfall is that you can do anything that you want to do... they wanted to place as few restrictions as possible

    it helps to elaborate on a point, instead of just saying "it won't work everyone knows that, duh"

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatdane View Post
    you seriously think the population levels have fallen because the economy? and do you really think you're going to draw that many players back to the game by changing it?

    people that did quit due to the economy were more than likely influenced by a lack of supply than lack of the option to sell their merchandise, and limiting tradeskills will not help supply at all

    there are plenty of other games that limit what you can do, and the original concept of darkfall is that you can do anything that you want to do... they wanted to place as few restrictions as possible

    it helps to elaborate on a point, instead of just saying "it won't work everyone knows that, duh"
    Not just for the economy, it's only one of the pieces.

    And the Master of all trades design is not the "original concept" of darkfall, it's the original sin.

    Forumfall elaborated on that topic since the release (well, at least since we realized that what was supposed to be there wasn't there), and the result of the lack of acknowledge of that is under our eyes.
    Last edited by lkx; 03-25-2012 at 18:25.
    Political and Commercial control through local markets

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  5. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatdane View Post
    it helps to elaborate on a point, instead of just saying "it won't work everyone knows that, duh"
    ...

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    For those wondering what SMAA is, here's an explanation.

    SMAA is a very efficient GPU-based MLAA implementation, capable of handling subpixel features seamlessly, and featuring an advanced pattern detection & handling mechanism.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=i45RgCssG1I

    Official website - http://www.iryoku.com/smaa/

    Finally the game will have some form of AA.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Weeking View Post
    You can strengthen cloth by interweaving them with metal fibers IRL. And the armor system is about encumbrance due to stiffness and weight, not magical interference.
    I'll agree with weight since bone armor would be considered pretty stiff.

  8. #53
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    I can't wait till AV starts giving out actual updates to the game, and news releases for gamers. We don't care what they are working on. We just care about what is being worked on that will actually be released. There have been games that have popped up since the launch of darkfall, had their betas, and then were released to the public with updates, and they have expansions on the way. What has AV done? Had patches to the game and called them expansions, while leaving out 70% of the desired updates wanted from the community. Wow. Just wow.


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    Nice with a weekly report, but not much new, and little for the lay man to understand, as the most important news was about programming technology.

    Also, the Crafting system was mentioned before, and still have the major flaw of using Rare Metal as Ranked Quality Infusions, regardless whether it is metal or other objects, which is deplorable.

    Having a linear Rank progression of "Infusors" will also play havoc with the market, as well as making Regional Distribution of Rare Metal sources matter even more, making some regions have great advantages over other regions with lesser Rare metals. Simply a bad setup for the economy in general. (Having a Masters in Business Administration as well as being a teacher in the subject at university level have given me quite an insight in Economics, so I do know what I am talking about here.)

    It is very nice to be able to colour your weapons, but we DO need a more heterogenous system, where the quality level is based on the quantity of Rare metal used, not Type, and the benefits of specific metals would be different for each metal, such as armour made of Selentine granting extra Cold resistance (non-transferrance of temperature), Neithal Acid resistance (can stand the acid and therefore protect better), Leenspar Fire resistance (don't get affected by high temperatures, don't melt easily), Veilron Lightning resistance (natural isolator, despite being a metal), and Theyril as a Golden colured Holy AND Unholy resistance and perhaps a bit extra physical resistance being the most rare metal (empowered by divine energy, regardless of deity, and Golden as Selentine definitely should be Silver, and it would be stupid to have the most powerful metal in the same colour as the least powerful ones). And other kind of differences for weapons (less durability loss when used against certain foes, benefits for certain Transmute weapons, minor differences in damage, speed, durability and perhaps other features of the weapon based on weapon).

    This also makes way for an Alloy system of combining different colours into a system of 21 different colours for Rare Metal Armours and Weapons (Green, light green, dark green, dark red, red, Pink, White/Silver, Grey, Black, etc) for proper equipment differentiation as well as the ability to choose which colour you want on your gear without losing quality levels. THAT is proper Fluff for a Sand Box system.

    Not to mention that "infusing leather and wood" with metal is a silly idea.

    Have said this before, but will keep saying it until someone listens, which hopefully will be before the game is re-released.
    And furthermore: Fix the Alignment & Race Wars, put in Vendors even Newbs can sell stuff from, improve the GUI and put in Momentum in combat (“Headless-chicken” & “Bunnyjumpshooting” people are silly), and a LOT of players will return.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatdane View Post
    you seriously think the population levels have fallen because the economy? and do you really think you're going to draw that many players back to the game by changing it?

    people that did quit due to the economy were more than likely influenced by a lack of supply than lack of the option to sell their merchandise, and limiting tradeskills will not help supply at all

    there are plenty of other games that limit what you can do, and the original concept of darkfall is that you can do anything that you want to do... they wanted to place as few restrictions as possible

    it helps to elaborate on a point, instead of just saying "it won't work everyone knows that, duh"
    No, it fallen due to the lack of roles caused by the lack of skillcap. The lack of skillcap also allows the issue of infinite grind, but that's another issue.

    Crafter and trader are 2 important roles in a sandbox. People need to be given the alternative to be a part of the economy other than creating demands by ganking and supplying said demand by hunting mobs. That's simply not enough. After all, Darkfall is not a PvP game because everyone is forced to PvP (although it's pretty much what is has become, nobody is gonna sub to PvE). No, PvP should be the center point of the game. PvP should fuel the engine by creating sandbox opportunities. Crafting and Trading come to mind.

    And as of your claim that aspiring crafters and traders will only be in until the amass rediculous amount of gold... well, that may be true in some cases, but that is another issue altogether. You don't simply refuse to fix your front door because the frame is broken, you repair both. That is, if owning mansions, buying boats and building cities are not enough of a gold sink for every role in the game.

    And yes, the broken economy is a MAJOR turn off for me. And i'm certainly not the only one. Maybe you shouldn't assume everyone has the same views and playstyle as yourself. Maybe the current playerbase don't mind it so much but then again, maybe that's why the current playerbase is all that is left from what it could have been.
    Globalization doesn't work. Pour some sand in my box already. Localize Darkfall.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Zeb View Post
    Nice with a weekly report, but not much new, and little for the lay man to understand, as the most important news was about programming technology.

    Also, the Crafting system was mentioned before, and still have the major flaw of using Rare Metal as Ranked Quality Infusions, regardless whether it is metal or other objects, which is deplorable.

    Having a linear Rank progression of "Infusors" will also play havoc with the market, as well as making Regional Distribution of Rare Metal sources matter even more, making some regions have great advantages over other regions with lesser Rare metals. Simply a bad setup for the economy in general. (Having a Masters in Business Administration as well as being a teacher in the subject at university level have given me quite an insight in Economics, so I do know what I am talking about here.)

    It is very nice to be able to colour your weapons, but we DO need a more heterogenous system, where the quality level is based on the quantity of Rare metal used, not Type, and the benefits of specific metals would be different for each metal, such as armour made of Selentine granting extra Cold resistance (non-transferrance of temperature), Neithal Acid resistance (can stand the acid and therefore protect better), Leenspar Fire resistance (don't get affected by high temperatures, don't melt easily), Veilron Lightning resistance (natural isolator, despite being a metal), and Theyril as a Golden colured Holy AND Unholy resistance and perhaps a bit extra physical resistance being the most rare metal (empowered by divine energy, regardless of deity, and Golden as Selentine definitely should be Silver, and it would be stupid to have the most powerful metal in the same colour as the least powerful ones). And other kind of differences for weapons (less durability loss when used against certain foes, benefits for certain Transmute weapons, minor differences in damage, speed, durability and perhaps other features of the weapon based on weapon).

    This also makes way for an Alloy system of combining different colours into a system of 21 different colours for Rare Metal Armours and Weapons (Green, light green, dark green, dark red, red, Pink, White/Silver, Grey, Black, etc) for proper equipment differentiation as well as the ability to choose which colour you want on your gear without losing quality levels. THAT is proper Fluff for a Sand Box system.

    Not to mention that "infusing leather and wood" with metal is a silly idea.

    Have said this before, but will keep saying it until someone listens, which hopefully will be before the game is re-released.
    I agree, but as i've said, they took one+ year to design this, and changing it again would take at least another year (and i think that we couldn't expect anything more elaborated from their game designers).
    Lets take this and leave any further enanchements to DF3.0
    Last edited by lkx; 03-26-2012 at 08:34.
    Political and Commercial control through local markets

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    Who lives by the word of mouth, dies by the word of mouth
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  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by lkx View Post
    I agree, but as i've said, they took one+ year to design this, and changing it again would take at least another year (and i think that we couldn't expect anything more elaborated from their game designers).
    Lets take this and leave any further enanchements to DF3.0
    Believe me, if they don't fix this, I will complain about it until DF 3.0.
    Will probably play meanwhile though, which also will grant me access to Suggestion forum.

    Would actually not be too demanding change really either. Just change the Recipies for different Ranks, and making the Graphics for Colour Changes wouldn't take too long. (With a finite number of colours one only need one Weapon version per Colour, like we now have about dozens of different Sword recipies just for different looks.) One could even start out with the simple system and skip the Green/Purple/Pink/Orange/Etc weapons for an Expansion, just setting the foundation now with 5 different colours for a "quick change" of the system for Launch.
    Or to simplify/specify what I say:
    • Instead of having a Selentine R5 Weapon, you add 4 more types just based on colour that are R5, with minor differences in Resistances and similar that is determined by the Recipy (don't even need a "onlaying system", but pre-calculate what the differences would be).
      Recipy should state a cost of 1 Rare Metal ingot for all metal items. (Or, a number of Rare Metal/Iron Alloy pieces that are produced by mixing Rare metal and Iron in the Smelter, for more varied Metal cost, if one wish for a more complex system, but that shouldn't be too complex either as each Weapon recipy simply have their own Metal Ingredient and the Alloy system merely adds a few Recipies for the Smelter).

    • Instead of having a Veilron R6, you copy all the R5 recipies, upgrade them a bit, perhaps upgrade the Graphics a bit while re-colouring the new graphics for the R6 level, and then put into the system. And, set Rare Metal Cost at 2 ingots (or a Rare Metal/Iron alloy with more Rare Metal in it).

    • For R7, R8 and R9 weapons, you do the same as for R6, but up the cost to 3 Ingots for R7, 4 Ingots for R8 and 5 Ingots for R9. However, currently we have the equivalency of R7 weapons as max Rank, so one can even cut down on the workload by having fewer levels. Not to mention that you don't really need to have these higher Recipies finished at Launch, as it will take some time for people to grind their Skill up to that level. (Should be a priority to fix them though.) One can even first make it up to R6, and the R7 and higher added in later Expansions (a bit like there were no R70 Racial Weapons available for more than a year after Launch).

    • Racial Weapons could remain, as top level Weapon Rank recipy (demanding specific alloy types and only craftable in one colour, mixing in Rare Ingredients with the Rare Alloys), where not all races can attain that level in each craft, and where there aren't Top Rank weapons in all categories. Like it is now, with Racial Weapons as equivalents to R7.

    • What would be more resource consuming would however be differentiation in Durability loss based on Damage Type and such special ability differences. (But who knows, perhaps there already exist such a code system beneath the surface, to be easily differentiated.) But, once one done the systematic changes, at least they will apply for all the different weapons. And such system changes can even be skipped by using current parameters for weapon differentiation. (Armours are easily differentiated by Resistances, Weapons can just be high quality regardless of type and not have any different ability than any other weapon unless you Transmute it, getting "High-grade Transmute" recipies by specifying Rare Metal Alloy Weapon ingredient.)


    So, in essence: This don't take THAT much effort to make, as it can be done simply by changing Recipies and adding Re-coloured Graphics.

    A system for Recycling of items into Resources would take more programming effort, and they are discussing that as well.
    And furthermore: Fix the Alignment & Race Wars, put in Vendors even Newbs can sell stuff from, improve the GUI and put in Momentum in combat (“Headless-chicken” & “Bunnyjumpshooting” people are silly), and a LOT of players will return.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Zeb View Post
    Having a linear Rank progression of "Infusors" will also play havoc with the market, as well as making Regional Distribution of Rare Metal sources matter even more, making some regions have great advantages over other regions with lesser Rare metals. Simply a bad setup for the economy in general. (Having a Masters in Business Administration as well as being a teacher in the subject at university level have given me quite an insight in Economics, so I do know what I am talking about here.)
    I don't see the problem as long as the least rare rare ore is rare enough that most players can't run around with only gear made with it; rank 5. They're probably going to put the better stuff in places where they think there's going to be lots of conflict and harder mobs anyway so it'll be like a progression for players to start mining harder areas as they get stronger and better organized. But if they're distributing ore by racial zones, it's sort of a problem, or would have been if races had a good reason to keep to their racial areas. In other games, without proper items decay, or even if armor was really cheap, it would be a huge problem though. Maybe armor sets with few pieces, f ex robe & hood, or the normal ingredients is the limiting factor, f ex full plate armor is too cheap leading to everyone using rare ore for it. But this doesn't really matter either as long as there is at least one good use for the ore that hasn't yet been saturated, f ex other types of armor or weapons.
    (color=#333333)(/color)

  14. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nashtak View Post
    No, it fallen due to the lack of roles caused by the lack of skillcap. The lack of skillcap also allows the issue of infinite grind, but that's another issue.

    Crafter and trader are 2 important roles in a sandbox. People need to be given the alternative to be a part of the economy other than creating demands by ganking and supplying said demand by hunting mobs. That's simply not enough. After all, Darkfall is not a PvP game because everyone is forced to PvP (although it's pretty much what is has become, nobody is gonna sub to PvE). No, PvP should be the center point of the game. PvP should fuel the engine by creating sandbox opportunities. Crafting and Trading come to mind.

    And as of your claim that aspiring crafters and traders will only be in until the amass rediculous amount of gold... well, that may be true in some cases, but that is another issue altogether. You don't simply refuse to fix your front door because the frame is broken, you repair both. That is, if owning mansions, buying boats and building cities are not enough of a gold sink for every role in the game.

    And yes, the broken economy is a MAJOR turn off for me. And i'm certainly not the only one. Maybe you shouldn't assume everyone has the same views and playstyle as yourself. Maybe the current playerbase don't mind it so much but then again, maybe that's why the current playerbase is all that is left from what it could have been.
    so if everyone has the choice to craft their own gear, how does it hurt you? these players can choose to farm their own items, make their own gear, pvp on their own time

    if you restrict tradeskills, then a player may have to wait until he can find someone to craft an item or put it on the market, plus he will always be at the mercy of the market's prices

    you can still have economic competition and be able to craft everything, but you cannot have somebody be self sufficient or independant if you restrict crafting

    it would be like the government walking up to your house, telling you that you can't grow a garden because you chose to be a computer repairman, and now you have to wait until your favorite crop is in season, hope that the other consumers haven't already bought it all, and pay whatever price that the sellers want to inflate it to

    if everyone could grow a garden, the successful marketers would still be successful because not everyone wants to do it, and the home gardeners would not be affected

  15. #60

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    art from

    November 3, 2011
    August 25, 2011

    AV do you even have anything to show that you made in last 6 months?

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