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  1. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyldor Gwyvallt View Post
    NATIONAL organizations (like Hamas and Hezbollah) that fight against aggressors in THEIR own country and have WON the elections in their own countries cannot be defined terrorists by any honest government or journalist...so funding them or supporting them is NOT funding terrorism....
    Is Hezbollah legitimate gov? They have a political power and influence but foremost its a militia who act the way they deem without any consent of Lebanon gov.
    To put it simple imagine "tea party" attacking Mexico.
    Hamas is democratically elected gov but so war and Hitler.
    BTW while it was democratically elected but it does not mean that Pals become democratic overnight and in fact they are still terrorist org and not gov. Here is why

    Quote Originally Posted by StainlessSteelRat View Post
    So did the USSR. Iran doesn't even come close to being a serious threat.

    Our entire foreign policy props up the very regime that we are so intent on fighting.

    Regardless, we don't hit first; we just hit hardest. Is there some risk associated with that? Sure. Any policy will have risks but at least that one is based on the principles and law set down in the Constitution.
    With USSR there was not a choice but there is a choice with Iran. To wait till it become nuclear power or deal with it now.
    Also You can't even compare Communist of USSR post Khrushchev era with frekin religious fanatics with Apocalypse ideas.
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  2. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greywind View Post
    Is Hezbollah legitimate gov? They have a political power and influence but foremost its a militia who act the way they deem without any consent of Lebanon gov.
    To put it simple imagine "tea party" attacking Mexico.
    Hamas is democratically elected gov but so war and Hitler.
    BTW while it was democratically elected but it does not mean that Pals become democratic overnight and in fact they are still terrorist org and not gov. Here is why


    With USSR there was not a choice but there is a choice with Iran. To wait till it become nuclear power or deal with it now.
    Also You can't even compare Communist of USSR post Khrushchev era with frekin religious fanatics with Apocalypse ideas.
    It's pretty easy to compare because it's a very similar situation... oh wait except that the USSR had plenty of nukes and Iran hasn't been able to produce 1 yet...

    US is full of religious fanatics with Apocalypse ideas... Christianity. These same people throw out blanket stereotypes of all Muslims being terrorists and coincidentally want to preemptively strike and possibly eliminate Middle Eastern Nations.

    The real terrorists are the people supporting the bombing and preemptive strikes that put the 9/11 death figure to shame, sounds like this may include you.
    Last edited by dandelions; 02-23-2012 at 20:26.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greywind View Post
    Is Hezbollah legitimate gov? They have a political power and influence but foremost its a militia who act the way they deem without any consent of Lebanon gov.
    To put it simple imagine "tea party" attacking Mexico.
    Hamas is democratically elected gov but so war and Hitler.
    BTW while it was democratically elected but it does not mean that Pals become democratic overnight and in fact they are still terrorist org and not gov. Here is why
    We do the same shit as Iran. We sponsor rebellions all over the world. We sponsor terrorists, revolutionaries and dictators. The idea that Iran will somehow sponsor a terrorist group to sneak a nuke into a western country is ludicrous. First of all our intelligence watches for this. Second of all if NK did not do yet what makes you think Iran will be successfull?

    Lastly as RP pointed out we still have unaccounted soviet nukes floating around I hardly doubt that if Iran was hell bent on nuking us in that way that they would not go for those first.

    With USSR there was not a choice but there is a choice with Iran. To wait till it become nuclear power or deal with it now.
    Also You can't even compare Communist of USSR post Khrushchev era with frekin religious fanatics with Apocalypse ideas.
    Why not? Russians were paranoid of US attacking them. Anything could have led them to preemptively nuke us off the face of the earth. Yet they did not do it.

    I don't think Iran is any more crazy than other nations. Their rhetoric is grossly exaggerated in western media. Even if it wasn't they are no USSR their nukes are only a danger to Israel. I could care less about Israel and they are capable of defending them selves (sitting on 300 nukes them selves).
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  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyldor Gwyvallt View Post
    NATIONAL organizations (like Hamas and Hezbollah) that fight against aggressors in THEIR own country and have WON the elections in their own countries cannot be defined terrorists by any honest government or journalist...so funding them or supporting them is NOT funding terrorism....

    USA and ISRAEL fund, sponsor and use many terrorists organizations that clearly fight in OTHER countries, THAT is supporting terrorism....even if your corrupt media claims what your corrupt government states, and your dumb ignorant masses gubbles it all, reality is quite different, sorry.


    Regards
    HG
    I love how you are smug its cute.

    The problem with the orginizations you mentioned is that they target civilans to reach political ends.

    And to be clear I don't want to go to war with Iran. I think most politicans are being retarded with the saber ratteling.

    Quote Originally Posted by StainlessSteelRat View Post
    So did the USSR. Iran doesn't even come close to being a serious threat.
    I'm not worried about Iran the governement. I worried about Iran the failed state.
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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    I'm not worried about Iran the governement. I worried about Iran the failed state.
    Why? You should be worried about the USSR failed state. At least we know they had nukes. An Iranian nuke is fiction.

    And to the dimwit Passingwind: even if you don't like the comparison, my position is still founded in solid principles of morality, law, and human rights.
    Last edited by StainlessSteelRat; 02-24-2012 at 20:04.
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  6. #21
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    [QUOTE=StainlessSteelRat;5336605]Why? You should be worried about the USSR failed state[QUOTE]

    The USSR doesn't fall under failed state theory because the USSR itself was more of a confederation rather than a single entity. If Russia had became a failed state after the break up of the soviet bloc then your comparison would be valid. And if my memory severs me correctly, before the break up of the block most nukes were moved out of the satelite countries.

    I know that Iran doesn't have a nuke now. That wasn't my point. I said no one who is sane should actually want to see them with a nuke. Thats not to say that I think we should go to war with them (it would be a terrible endevor), but if sanctions can slow them down or some other means can get them to give up the desire to get nukes then we should use those instead.

    To be more clear, limiting my discussion to the middel east region, I don't think Isreal should have nukes either.
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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    Getting someone else to do your dirty work, unless you control them, isn't false flag.
    Using brainwashed fanatics to blow up your own citizens? Fanatics that think they did it to further their own cause when all they did was give a green light for the ones really responsible to go to war? Yep. That's still false flag. You should really look into the subject more.

  8. #23

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    http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...ated-wikileaks

    The US fears that Saudi Arabia, the world's largest crude oil exporter, may not have enough reserves to prevent oil prices escalating, confidential cables from its embassy in Riyadh show.

    The cables, released by WikiLeaks, urge Washington to take seriously a warning from a senior Saudi government oil executive that the kingdom's crude oil reserves may have been overstated by as much as 300bn barrels – nearly 40%.
    Last edited by Lord Bulleteus; 02-24-2012 at 20:19.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    The USSR doesn't fall under failed state theory because the USSR itself was more of a confederation rather than a single entity. If Russia had became a failed state after the break up of the soviet bloc then your comparison would be valid. And if my memory severs me correctly, before the break up of the block most nukes were moved out of the satelite countries.
    Failed state theory? USSR is a failed state. Not sure why you are splitting hairs. As far as your memory goes, no; I'm 99% sure they have no idea where a chunk of nukes went.

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    I know that Iran doesn't have a nuke now. That wasn't my point. I said no one who is sane should actually want to see them with a nuke. Thats not to say that I think we should go to war with them (it would be a terrible endevor), but if sanctions can slow them down or some other means can get them to give up the desire to get nukes then we should use those instead.
    What does 'wanting to see them w/ a nuke' have to do w/ this discussion? Is anyone advocating that?

    Sanctions will backfire as I stated and prop up their regime; give it legitimacy. You want the crazies gone? Stop giving them something to (US) to rally the people against and let the people rally themselves against the crazies.

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    To be more clear, limiting my discussion to the middel east region, I don't think Isreal should have nukes either.
    OK, but moot point.

    Iran is still not a serious threat to the US (or Israel for that matter); with or without a nuke. And even if they were a threat, like the USSR was, we don't take pre-emptive action; we don't meddle; we don't screw around. We go to war via declaration by congress or we don't.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrBungle View Post
    If 3/4 of all the money spent on defense was diverted into education funds, public school would be dirt cheap
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  10. #25
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    What gives Americans the right to have nukes over anyone. They are dumb, fat, and greedy. Not to mention insane
    We should celebrate March 2013 as the month Off-Topic went Full Retard.

  11. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverhandorder View Post
    Why not? Russians were paranoid of US attacking them. Anything could have led them to preemptively nuke us off the face of the earth. Yet they did not do it.
    You have no idea what are you talking about. Russian elite was so corrupt (specially after Khrushchev era) and busy with internal intrigue, power play and personal gain they would not give a fuck about communist ideas and of course would not risk to start nuclear war.
    Greywind UO/DAoC/SB/L2/WoW/DFO

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