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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makestro View Post
    SHO is an anarcho-capitalist.
    I don't think he has figured out his own ideology just yet.
    We should celebrate March 2013 as the month Off-Topic went Full Retard.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverhandorder View Post
    A house is a scarce good though. So no you can't do that to a scarce good.
    I must have missed your criteria in judging scarcity, your new, unique definition of the concept.

    Most people would consider capital to be the basic scarce resource and it's a lot more capital intense to create a movie ($10-100 million in material/labour) than a house (100,000-500,000 in material/labour costs).

    I hope you are content with our society's current library of intellectual content, because not much is going to be created for the remainder of your life if creators can't expect to recoup costs (let alone profit) from their capital investment.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abaratican View Post
    Except that the owner wouldn't actually lose it in the digital case.
    Yes actually, he would lose control of it. It would become a non-entity. You expect people to make a 100 million $ movie as a gift to society?? That shit didn't even happen in the USSR.

  4. #124
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    I had hoped for a large debate between EE and SilverHandOrder. Oh how disappointed I became after viewing a few pages.
    Fuck you.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverhandorder View Post
    Sure you did. There are two concepts we are talking about. One is whether hard work should always be rewarded and the other is property rights. In my example the person has absolute property rights for his ditch. It is not an intellectual property it is real property. What I am illustrating here is that not all hard work should be rewarded.
    Ya, that's a pointless strawman. It does nothing to support your point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reigngod View Post
    Deductive reasoning has noing to do with logic. In fact deductive reasoning is illogical. Go define logic and come back to the discussion an educated man.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletToothTony View Post
    post your df account info so anyone can use it, since thats intelectual property and not a 'real' thing as you put it.
    No it's not. It's basically a key to open a door to real property since it can't be copied and if someone else uses it, you can't. It's like removing the front door of the house and going on vacation.
    (color=#333333)(/color)

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by rikilii View Post
    Rent the DVDs? Don't watch? I know this is hard to believe, but your life won't come to an end if you fail to "Keep Up With the Kardasians".
    I am not going to pay to support an archaic system. If the networks and studios refuse to adapt to modern times, that is their problem, not mine.


    Yummy.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krag View Post
    I must have missed your criteria in judging scarcity, your new, unique definition of the concept.

    Most people would consider capital to be the basic scarce resource and it's a lot more capital intense to create a movie ($10-100 million in material/labour) than a house (100,000-500,000 in material/labour costs).

    I hope you are content with our society's current library of intellectual content, because not much is going to be created for the remainder of your life if creators can't expect to recoup costs (let alone profit) from their capital investment.
    The capital has nothing to do with the finished product. What if the movie is a flop and not a single person goes? You wouldn't want them to be rewarded in that case right? Yet the capital was used to make a flop as well.

    No the final good is not a scarce good. It can be multiplied to infinity without taking it away from anyone.
    "What, you think just because you need it means you have a right to take mine?"


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    Quote Originally Posted by Methuselah View Post
    I should get ahead of the curve and ban you now then...

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    It's not, but then again laws aren't perfect and they're made to serve the rich and can't prevent corruption.

    So they should first fix the laws that will eliminate corruption and put politicians and rich people to jail and then worry about the random minimum wage citizen that downloads a movie he can't afford anyway.

    And i'll be damned if the common workers share the huge profits, they all go to fatass shareholders and executive bonuses that already have more money than they can spend in a lifetime.

    It's injustice that makes me overlook piracy, not that i don't think it's bad.

  10. #130
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    So smart guy, how do you propose to fund new intellectual property creation if you remove market/consumer mechanisms where projected purchases return investment and add profit incentive to creators?

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krag View Post
    So smart guy, how do you propose to fund new intellectual property creation if you remove market/consumer mechanisms where projected purchases return investment and add profit incentive to creators?
    There are many ways. First there is first use pricing. People pay more in order to get the product when it comes out. You can do reorders and if they are insufficient wait until you have enough. You can attach negative goods such as advertising. Ultimately that should not be our concern. Our concern should be that it is ethical.
    "What, you think just because you need it means you have a right to take mine?"


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    Quote Originally Posted by Methuselah View Post
    I should get ahead of the curve and ban you now then...

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverhandorder View Post
    There are many ways. First there is first use pricing. People pay more in order to get the product when it comes out. You can do reorders and if they are insufficient wait until you have enough. You can attach negative goods such as advertising.
    Pricing? People are copying it to infinity the moment it is available, there's no pricing factor at all. Product placement advertising in movies/games in the small % where it synchronizes without ruining the aesthetics covers only a fraction of the capital costs, and it's even less possible with music, literature or art.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silverhandorder View Post
    Ultimately that should not be our concern. Our concern should be that it is ethical.
    LOL now you are really getting ridiculous as the ice starts cracking around your feet.

    The intellectual property sectors are estimated to be around 33% of the US GDP. But hey, let's smash the existing market foundation of that for extremely dubious & radical ethical philosphies. What happens after? LOL WHO CARES AMIRITE???

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverhandorder View Post
    The reason why we have private property and the reason why it is fiercely defended is because private property is scarce. The system we developed is made to reduce conflict in society. People can only acquire property by either creating it from unclaimed resources or trading the ownership from one person to another.
    And intellectual property (lol at title btw) isn't scarce? If I find a new cure for cancer in my lab, using my company's money, why shouldn't I be able to keep said intellectual property?

    Quote Originally Posted by Silverhandorder View Post
    So "intellectual property" does not have these constrains. Once it comes into existence it can be copied to infinity and without any cost to it. What is more the original producer does not lose the property it self. As such it is not a scarce good. It should not be given the same protections as real goods.
    Of course it would cost. The idea you have come up with probably cost something, from science theories to computer games to literary products. If piracy was legal and could be done without any constraints, we'd quickly have a shut down of a lot of society.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silverhandorder View Post
    The fact that original producer may not be able to get a certain income he desires or to recoup his costs is not a concern of society. He took a risk when producing the property that he may not be able to recoup the costs and he should bear it.
    But then there would be no incentive to produce it any longer. That's one of the reasons we produce so few antibiotics - the Chinese, Brazilians and Indians don't respect our laws.

    EE is spot on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aragoni View Post
    I had hoped for a large debate between EE and SilverHandOrder. Oh how disappointed I became after viewing a few pages.
    This
    Last edited by Kusghuul; 02-01-2012 at 19:31.
    Old UO RP'er who misses CoY and ERPA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beeblebrox View Post
    Come on, mate, you'll have better luck converting people door to door. Our souls are already marching to the eternal fire, we are forever tainted by too much internet porn and grand theft auto.

  14. #134
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    just gonna throw this out there..


    but not everybody lives to acquire personal wealth...


    some live solely to contribute, and humanity/nature has a way of taking care of those that truly do.
    AnarchAbolical Killers
    Quote Originally Posted by Aacevedo
    jajajajja , in my country "raja" is the name we give to the line formed by the ass cheeks :lmao:
    Quote Originally Posted by rockyraccoon
    That's actually pretty sexy.

  15. #135

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    ^
    Antibiotics can be copied without breaking patent laws. It has nothing to do with them not respecting laws, though I suppose it's just another attempt to slur foreigners.

    You can't just copy such a thing anyway. The foreign med companies need to start from scratch when making a copy product. They don't have the recipe and methods.
    Last edited by Emolas; 02-01-2012 at 19:44.

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