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  1. #151

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    Quote Originally Posted by rikilii View Post
    If you don't care about people pirating your music, why work with a label at all? Just make it, and put it on the internet for free.
    Because I don’t have the capability to press my own records, which most real DJ’s still prefer over digital. There are other benefits to working with a label also, I can collaborate with all of the artists on the label, their studio has tons of expensive analog synths that I wouldn’t normally have access to etc. Sure I can use a VST that replicates a Roland TB-303 but that's nothing like actually using the real thing.

    @ krag

    They make most of their money from vinyl sales, something that piracy doesn’t eat into. I still work a normal office job, music is something I do for fun and some extra money in my pocket.
    Last edited by doomahx; 02-01-2012 at 22:09.

  2. #152
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    I think a full time professional recording musician (artist) might have a different take on the situation than a an amateur hobbyist.

  3. #153

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krag View Post
    I think a full time professional recording musician (artist) might have a different take on the situation than a an amateur hobbyist.
    What specifically are you referring to? I think you will find that most musicians are split on the issue of how to handle copyright.
    Last edited by doomahx; 02-01-2012 at 22:47.

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krag View Post
    Pricing? People are copying it to infinity the moment it is available, there's no pricing factor at all. Product placement advertising in movies/games in the small % where it synchronizes without ruining the aesthetics covers only a fraction of the capital costs, and it's even less possible with music, literature or art.
    There are costs beyond those of production. For example hosting servers, updates and etc. Sure the income is not guranteed to be as high and sucessfull bussiness models may not exists right now. But to say that it is impossible is not right either.

    When one looks at areas where IP is not enforced one sees how companies combat this. Steam is a great example. Sell games at a price where it is not worth to pirate them.

    LOL now you are really getting ridiculous as the ice starts cracking around your feet.

    The intellectual property sectors are estimated to be around 33% of the US GDP. But hey, let's smash the existing market foundation of that for extremely dubious & radical ethical philosphies. What happens after? LOL WHO CARES AMIRITE???
    So and 100% of Soviet economy was in government managed enterprise. I don't think you would object to switching to capitalism if you lived there. Why does it matter if 33% are related to IP. Granted I would proceed cautiously so as not to cause undo harship. For example suspending any future IP enforcement and only enforcing current IP. I am just trying to get you to recognize the idea, I am not making suggestions on how to proceed. Ussually once an idea is recognized it organically takes over. Case in point the spread of piracy and impossible task of stopping it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kusghuul View Post
    And intellectual property (lol at title btw) isn't scarce? If I find a new cure for cancer in my lab, using my company's money, why shouldn't I be able to keep said intellectual property?
    You can keep it secret. You can devise a bussiness model where one can not coppy you. But if that fails you should not get any protection since as soon as you put your idea into the public you have to deal with the consequences of it no longer being a scarce good. Once someone has heard, saw or copied your idea you can no longer stop it.

    Of course it would cost. The idea you have come up with probably cost something, from science theories to computer games to literary products. If piracy was legal and could be done without any constraints, we'd quickly have a shut down of a lot of society.
    The cost of creting an idea or "intellectual property" has nothing to do with how we classify it. It is a non scarce good and as such should not have the protection of anyone from being coppied.

    But then there would be no incentive to produce it any longer. That's one of the reasons we produce so few antibiotics - the Chinese, Brazilians and Indians don't respect our laws.
    Sure there would be. There are bussiness models that can compensate for cost of production. Look at touch screen technology. The companies are copying each other and suing each other non stop. That is not stopping them from making a profit. I think I saw a graphic tracing all the patent holders and many patents are on improvements on patents before them. So bassically if IP was actually followed many companies would not have invented what we have today.

    Kudos to anyone who can find it.

    There were many examples of market working very well without IP protection.

    If anything think of new possibilities. Imagine being able to pay someone to change WoW or any game you like to be exactly like you want it. Instead of having WoW blizzard you can have WoW EA, WoW Aventurine, WoW Mythos.

    Game production could shift from game developers making games and hiring one publisher to game developers making a game and selling it to many publishers.
    "What, you think just because you need it means you have a right to take mine?"


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    Quote Originally Posted by Methuselah View Post
    I should get ahead of the curve and ban you now then...

  5. #155
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    Lol touch screen technology happens to be well diversified. Using an apple product's touch screen is not the same as using a Samsung's, or a kindle fire.

    Same concept, entirely different systems
    We should celebrate March 2013 as the month Off-Topic went Full Retard.

  6. #156
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    You've yet to explain why scarcity is or ought to be the exclusive basis of property.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reigngod View Post
    Deductive reasoning has noing to do with logic. In fact deductive reasoning is illogical. Go define logic and come back to the discussion an educated man.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by PirateGlen View Post
    You've yet to explain why scarcity is or ought to be the exclusive basis of property.
    I commented you probably missed it.
    "What, you think just because you need it means you have a right to take mine?"


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    Quote Originally Posted by Methuselah View Post
    I should get ahead of the curve and ban you now then...

  8. #158

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverhandorder View Post
    I commented you probably missed it.
    You just want him to reread the entire thread for laughs, admit it.

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverhandorder View Post
    I commented you probably missed it.
    we all did, we are still waiting for a relevant argument.
    We should celebrate March 2013 as the month Off-Topic went Full Retard.

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverhandorder View Post
    You are not applying the golden rule correctly. It does not matter what they want. What matters is that I treat others how I want to be treated. I would want to have people use my intellectual work. So I am completely aligned with golden rule.



    I absolutely agree that context is needed for any ethical determination. Btw thanks for the link it cleared up a lot.

    Now the reason why I think scarcity should be the basis for determining property because what else can you use? Other concepts such as for example work used to achieve it and life boat scenarios can not be universalized. Meaning hard work should not always be rewarded. If a thief works hard at getting into your house he should be punished.

    Why do we have to universalize ethical statements? If we don't then we are back to simply stating our own individuals opinions which would me morals. Ethical statements need justification and one of the first challenges that follows to any ethical statements is when does it apply.



    Yes I believe you should be able to do that. Here is how I reason about it. It will include somethings we haven't agreed on so bear with me.

    So I view property as a more valid concept than intellectual property because it is scarce. As such if there was a conflict between enforcing real property rights and intellectual property rights then I would enforce real property rights.

    So when you copy a book you are using the property you own. In order to prevent you from copying I would need to prevent you from using real property. So that would be worse and as such I would have to allow you to continue to use your property as you wish.

    The fact that I put in so much work into making something should not be up for consideration. Since I think that working hard does not automatically mean the person deserves reward for his hard work.

    In this case his hard work if it were rewarded would mean another person is prevented from using real property.
    "What, you think just because you need it means you have a right to take mine?"


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    Quote Originally Posted by Methuselah View Post
    I should get ahead of the curve and ban you now then...

  11. #161
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    does anyone even read these walls of text?

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by GirlyMan View Post
    does anyone even read these walls of text?
    I suspect no. I have to repeat same argument like 10 times to 10 different people.
    "What, you think just because you need it means you have a right to take mine?"


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    Quote Originally Posted by Methuselah View Post
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  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverhandorder View Post
    I suspect no. I have to repeat same argument like 10 times to 10 different people.
    We read your walls, problem is that people get tired after the third time of reading the same argument.
    We should celebrate March 2013 as the month Off-Topic went Full Retard.

  14. #164
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    Is this thread about video game IP?
    Last edited by Jedicake; 02-02-2012 at 03:52.

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverhandorder View Post
    You can keep it secret. You can devise a bussiness model where one can not coppy you. But if that fails you should not get any protection since as soon as you put your idea into the public you have to deal with the consequences of it no longer being a scarce good. Once someone has heard, saw or copied your idea you can no longer stop it.
    You can't keep it secret and sell the product because it so easy to copy; it removes the incentive (profit).


    Quote Originally Posted by Silverhandorder View Post
    The cost of creting an idea or "intellectual property" has nothing to do with how we classify it. It is a non scarce good and as such should not have the protection of anyone from being coppied.
    Once again, no profit = no motivation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silverhandorder View Post
    Sure there would be. There are bussiness models that can compensate for cost of production. Look at touch screen technology. The companies are copying each other and suing each other non stop. That is not stopping them from making a profit. I think I saw a graphic tracing all the patent holders and many patents are on improvements on patents before them. So bassically if IP was actually followed many companies would not have invented what we have today.
    Once again, you are removing their right to the product. Production is cheap, research isn't. Believe you me, there's a reason it costs billions of dollars to research anything.
    Old UO RP'er who misses CoY and ERPA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beeblebrox View Post
    Come on, mate, you'll have better luck converting people door to door. Our souls are already marching to the eternal fire, we are forever tainted by too much internet porn and grand theft auto.

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