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  1. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by GirlyMan View Post
    And yes, UV radiation induces mutation. UV rays are known mutagens.
    You never answered... if you did I didn't see it. Do you believe that if you hang out in the sun more your children will have darker skin?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reigngod View Post
    Deductive reasoning has noing to do with logic. In fact deductive reasoning is illogical. Go define logic and come back to the discussion an educated man.

  2. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by GirlyMan View Post
    There would be no evolution without the capacity to change. If the cell considers something usable it uses it. That's simply not an error.
    The cell has no idea what is useful or not. The environment is what dictates utility.

    Just because it is different from you "native" DNA doesn't mean it's an error. It's a change; most of the time being detrimental.
    By definition it is an error.

    We just have ideological differences, and that's why he picks apart philosophical debate to assert things that have no relevance in the discussion
    There's nothing philosophical about this. You have an ignorant understanding of basic biology and evolution.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reigngod View Post
    Deductive reasoning has noing to do with logic. In fact deductive reasoning is illogical. Go define logic and come back to the discussion an educated man.

  3. #138

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    Quote Originally Posted by GirlyMan View Post
    We have lactose intolerance today because of a spontaneous mutation in a gene that was once induced to be able to digest milk in adulthood.
    Well that does sound alot different from

    Quote Originally Posted by GirlyMan
    Lactose intolerance is a result of not drinking milk, as drinking the milk causes the mutation that allows us to drink milk and metabolise the lactose.
    As far as I understand it, you want to demonstrate that you have learned something now. Good.

    As far as I know you don't spontaneously begin to metabolise lactose; apparently it takes generations.
    You would, if the respective gene would mutate.

  4. #139

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    Quote Originally Posted by GirlyMan View Post
    And yes, UV radiation induces mutation. UV rays are known mutagens.
    Ionizing radiation happens all the time. At no point in your life are you not penetrated by UV light. In this sense a mutation caused by UV radiation is very much spontaneous as it belongs to the ususal "background bombardment".
    I agree, that this is not a clear cut case; but this is semantics not really relevant to the discussion anyway.
    What's important here is that drinking milk does not cause mutations to occur and that mutations are always random.

  5. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Civilization View Post
    Ionizing radiation happens all the time. At no point in your life are you not penetrated by UV light. In this sense a mutation caused by UV radiation is very much spontaneous as it belongs to the ususal "background bombardment".
    I agree, that this is not a clear cut case; but this is semantics not really relevant to the discussion anyway.
    What's important here is that drinking milk does not cause mutations to occur and that mutations are always random.
    ...
    Spontaneous mutations are naturally occurring mutations within the organism. By definition, a mutagen does not cause spontaneous mutations.

    And no, mutations aren't always random. You can predict which mutations will occur with certain agents such as drugs and therefore actually design and predict how certain mutations will affect an organism. You can say, "If I feed fruit flies this drug, their offspring will suffer these consequences with these particular changes being observed".
    Last edited by GirlyMan; 01-18-2012 at 00:27.

  6. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by PirateGlen View Post
    The cell has no idea what is useful or not. The environment is what dictates utility.


    By definition it is an error.



    There's nothing philosophical about this. You have an ignorant understanding of basic biology and evolution.
    The cell doesn't know. The DNA does, however.

    You don't give enough credit to DNA. It got us here, and we helped it.

  7. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by GirlyMan View Post
    The cell doesn't know. The DNA does, however.

    You don't give enough credit to DNA. It got us here, and we helped it.
    The DNA knows less than the cell and the cell doesn't know shit. The DNA is just a chain of base pairs that act as instructions for the cells of your body. DNA doesn't do anything but store the information that defines you as an organism.

    You're still dodging the question. Do you think your children will have darker skin if you are in the sun more?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reigngod View Post
    Deductive reasoning has noing to do with logic. In fact deductive reasoning is illogical. Go define logic and come back to the discussion an educated man.

  8. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by PirateGlen View Post
    The DNA knows less than the cell and the cell doesn't know shit. The DNA is just a chain of base pairs that act as instructions for the cells of your body. DNA doesn't do anything but store the information that defines you as an organism.

    You're still dodging the question. Do you think your children will have darker skin if you are in the sun more?
    I already answered the question.

    Your body is very complex. Just like it knows when you don't have cortisol, and produces Adrenocorticotropic hormone to bring the levels up to normal. Just like when exercise it knows to produce cortisol to feed your cells with fuel regardless of whether or not you've eaten recently - just like it knows when you're frightened to increase adrenaline - so do your genetics, your DNA, know how what is best for your body.

    And no it doesn't mean it thinks. It just knows.

  9. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by PirateGlen View Post
    The DNA knows less than the cell and the cell doesn't know shit. The DNA is just a chain of base pairs that act as instructions for the cells of your body. DNA doesn't do anything but store the information that defines you as an organism.

    You're still dodging the question. Do you think your children will have darker skin if you are in the sun more?
    The DNA knows less about the cell than cell yet it has the information to make the cell.

    I'm sorry but

  10. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by GirlyMan View Post
    The DNA knows less about the cell than cell yet it has the information to make the cell.

    I'm sorry but
    You're really clueless. The DNA does not interact with the outside world. It's a list that defines you as a species. The cell, on the other hand, can actually interact with the world through chemical changes in the body. The DNA does not react to the environment. It doesn't "just know". The DNA only changes if the cells fail to reproduce it exactly or it is altered by environmental damage (like radiation).

    Every post your make further clarifies how ignorant you are of basic biology.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reigngod View Post
    Deductive reasoning has noing to do with logic. In fact deductive reasoning is illogical. Go define logic and come back to the discussion an educated man.

  11. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by GirlyMan View Post
    I already answered the question.

    Your body is very complex. Just like it knows when you don't have cortisol, and produces Adrenocorticotropic hormone to bring the levels up to normal. Just like when exercise it knows to produce cortisol to feed your cells with fuel regardless of whether or not you've eaten recently - just like it knows when you're frightened to increase adrenaline - so do your genetics, your DNA, know how what is best for your body.

    And no it doesn't mean it thinks. It just knows.
    It's a yes or no question. Do you think your children will have darker skin if you are in the sun more?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reigngod View Post
    Deductive reasoning has noing to do with logic. In fact deductive reasoning is illogical. Go define logic and come back to the discussion an educated man.

  12. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by PirateGlen View Post
    You're really clueless. The DNA does not interact with the outside world. It's a list that defines you as a species. The cell, on the other hand, can actually interact with the world through chemical changes in the body. The DNA does not react to the environment. It doesn't "just know". The DNA only changes if the cells fail to reproduce it exactly or it is altered by environmental damage (like radiation).

    Every post your make further clarifies how ignorant you are of basic biology.
    Does not interact with the outside world? I have no idea where you are going with this gibberish.

    DNA is everything. Without it there is nothing.

    And.. I already answered that question. Feel free to go back in the post history.

    Look, DNA isn't static. It's always working to perform it's functions, which are extremely broad. It's more than just a list.
    Last edited by GirlyMan; 01-18-2012 at 03:12.

  13. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by GirlyMan View Post
    Does not interact with the outside world? I have no idea where you are going with this gibberish.
    That's because you don't know anything about biology.

    DNA is everything. Without it there is nothing.

    Look, DNA isn't static. It's always working to perform it's functions, which are extremely broad. It's more than just a list.
    Wrong. The cell's functions are broad. The DNA does nothing but provide information determined at birth to the cells. It does not change regularly. It's is predominantly permanent throughout your life with the exception of the few rare mutations that occur and are not corrected.

    And.. I already answered that question. Feel free to go back in the post history.
    I've seen 2 posts in response to it that are ambiguous. Will your child's skin be darker because you were in the sun more, yes or no?
    Last edited by PirateGlen; 01-18-2012 at 04:18.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reigngod View Post
    Deductive reasoning has noing to do with logic. In fact deductive reasoning is illogical. Go define logic and come back to the discussion an educated man.

  14. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by PirateGlen View Post
    Wrong. The cell's functions are broad. The DNA does nothing but provide information determined at birth to the cells. It does not change regularly. It's is predominantly permanent throughout your life with the exception of the few rare mutations that occur and are not corrected.

    Again, the only thing to say is: You wouldn't be alive without it.

    Of course the cell's functions are broad. They're there because of DNA. Providing information to cells, repairing mutations. Evolution. All because of DNA. Which is constantly being damaged and repaired. Stretches in and out, and is essential for life.

    And.. minor mutations happen all the time, which is why it's always being repaired. How many mutations do you think we suffer in a lifetime?

    Or is damage not change in your dictionary?

  15. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by PirateGlen View Post


    I've seen 2 posts in response to it that are ambiguous. Will your child's skin be darker because you were in the sun more, yes or no?
    Do you think we'll spontaneously grow wings if me and my descendants try to fly for millions of years?

    Or will they just gradually start appearing after a couple hundred thousand?
    Last edited by GirlyMan; 01-18-2012 at 07:54.

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