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Thread: Somalia

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverhandorder View Post
    Libertarians would be both a minarchists and an anarchists.



    The fact that there is no government or a small weak government does not necessarily mean it would be libertarian paradise. There is a big difference between a collapsed government and a dismantled government. It would only be fair to compare Somalia to modern nations if they would have anarchy at least for as long as those nations had central state.

    Lol, so you are saying Anarchy developes into something less chaotic and better over time? Anarchist have got to be some of the most retarded people on the planet.

    How as there any difference between a "Dismantled Gov" and a "Collapsed Gov"? Both result in No Gov, both have the same implications as both will revert to tribe based warfare, ultimately.
    Last edited by Apex Vertigo; 08-05-2011 at 22:28.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Apex Vertigo View Post
    How as there any difference between a "Dismantled Gov" and a "Collapsed Gov"? Both result in No Gov, both have the same implications as both will revert to tribe based warfare, ultimately.
    Not necessarily. But you know that. You just think the odds are in favor of warfare which they may very well be. His point is that a collapsed gov't leaves a void most often filled by 'warfare'. A dismantled gov't will leave no such void.
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    Is Somalia tribe based warfare? Ofcourse not, they have warlords because they are fighting outside governments trying to instill a government. The outside governments being European Union and African Union. Somalia has been invaded and they are fighting back those troops.
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    Quote Originally Posted by StainlessSteelRat View Post
    Not necessarily. But you know that. You just think the odds are in favor of warfare which they may very well be. His point is that a collapsed gov't leaves a void most often filled by 'warfare'. A dismantled gov't will leave no such void.
    Yes it most certainly would... even if the dismantle is peaceful, which I suppose is the only difference between a collapse and a dismantled government, there would still be a power vacuum, there's absolutely nothing stopping it. Tell me, what is stopping that vacuum from occurring? The good will and good intentions of the people?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bainwalker View Post
    Mother nature seems to be playing the population control card. It sucks for those dying but as a species we are fucking the planet.
    One in a billion years.
    Last edited by MrBungle; 08-05-2011 at 22:47.

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    Im really digging this whole Ghost Nation btw.
    Last edited by MrBungle; 08-05-2011 at 22:55.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Apex Vertigo View Post
    Yes it most certainly would... even if the dismantle is peaceful, which I suppose is the only difference between a collapse and a dismantled government, there would still be a power vacuum, there's absolutely nothing stopping it. Tell me, what is stopping that vacuum from occurring? The good will and good intentions of the people?
    Well government is basically monopoly on the use of force and dispute resolution. If a government collapses it means conditions are bad and people are hardly educated in the ways of non aggression.

    However if government is being dismantled one can take some assumptions. First of all it would have a majority of people who want that. This would mean that there is ideological commitment to establishing dispute resolution agencies and security firms to ward off invasion from people who would want a government. It would also mean absence of 3rd world poverty and conflict. It also means that average person is rich enough to afford leisure time to be able to participate in this instead of working from morning till night and not knowing whats going on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverhandorder View Post
    Well government is basically monopoly on the use of force and dispute resolution. If a government collapses it means conditions are bad and people are hardly educated in the ways of non aggression.

    However if government is being dismantled one can take some assumptions. First of all it would have a majority of people who want that. This would mean that there is ideological commitment to establishing dispute resolution agencies and security firms to ward off invasion from people who would want a government. It would also mean absence of 3rd world poverty and conflict. It also means that average person is rich enough to afford leisure time to be able to participate in this instead of working from morning till night and not knowing whats going on.
    Sooo you're entire philosophy is based off the assumption that the new government-less population is 1. Entirely united to a society based purely on privatized securities, 2. An equally devote sect of the population could not possibly create a militia to install their own government, 3. Monopolies would not be created because in this society economies of scale don't exist? (Along with every other kind of market injustice plausible) 4. The population somehow escapes poverty completely, with no explanation as to why people who don't even have that leisure time now would be able to acquire that standard, and that standard is for some reason the status quo for everyone? And that is ignoring the possibility of a foreign invasion or all the problems that would obviously come from a private police force (haven't we seen the problems with privatized prisons enough to prove that a disciplinary organization based on profit ultimately fails at the job it was created to do in the first place?) Is that about right? Because that sounds more naive and based in a realm of fantasy with a complete lack of human understanding than a DF fanboi.

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    I gtg but feel free to PM with all the reason you think this can not work and I will give you my best arguments. I'll reply here on monday.
    "What, you think just because you need it means you have a right to take mine?"


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    Quote Originally Posted by Methuselah View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apex Vertigo View Post
    Sooo you're entire philosophy is based off the assumption that the new government-less population is 1. Entirely united to a society based purely on privatized securities, 2. An equally devote sect of the population could not possibly create a militia to install their own government, 3. Monopolies would not be created because in this society economies of scale don't exist? (Along with every other kind of market injustice plausible) 4. The population somehow escapes poverty completely, with no explanation as to why people who don't even have that leisure time now would be able to acquire that standard, and that standard is for some reason the status quo for everyone? And that is ignoring the possibility of a foreign invasion or all the problems that would obviously come from a private police force (haven't we seen the problems with privatized prisons enough to prove that a disciplinary organization based on profit ultimately fails at the job it was created to do in the first place?) Is that about right? Because that sounds more naive and based in a realm of fantasy with a complete lack of human understanding than a DF fanboi.
    Just read this.

    lol
    Last edited by MrBungle; 08-06-2011 at 00:04.

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    First you fuck up almost all the African countries there are (by abusing them and trying to show your might to the other world powers) and then when "all of a sudden" people are dieing you say: "Survival of the fittest y'know?" Which is partially true as the world nations fucked them all over at first and leave them to die now, which means they are weaker, but only because you invaded them and abused them from top to bottom.

    Nobody cared that they were dieing when the proud white nations were sharing their lands like a big cake. It's like when you storm into someones house, take all u want and leave. When you notice that they can't survive on what they have left you give them abit and say "you guys are a bunch of incompetent losers, we shouldn't even be giving you anything, go rise and be a powerful nation like we did". Nevermind the fact that you became powerful by abusing them all.
    Last edited by Zakon; 08-06-2011 at 00:37.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zakon View Post
    First you fuck up almost all the African countries there are (by abusing them and trying to show your might to the other world powers) and then when "all of a sudden" people are dieing you say: "Survival of the fittest y'know?" Which is partially true as the world nations fucked them all over at first and leave them to die now.
    Well... it is survival of the fittest. They wouldn't have been in such a position to get fucked over by Europe had they been as advanced as they Euros.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Apex Vertigo View Post
    Well... it is survival of the fittest. They wouldn't have been in such a position to get fucked over by Europe had they been as advanced as they Euros.
    ... So the reason native Africans didn't develop socially, politically, and milataristically exactly like Europe is because they wern't as "advanced"? It had nothing to do with to incredably different enviroment, social structure, etc? Tell me something when you live in a piece of land where you have to travel to find water for just 100 people how or mostly why would you set up a city? Why would a society devlelop cannons and guns when spears and bows do the job easily and there is no need to devlelop further?

    Native Africans devloped differently to Europeans because their socities needed to, to survive the enviroment in which they lived. There is the old idea Eienstien could solve problems no one in the world had even thought of in front of a blackbored. But put him in the middle of the sahara in the 1800's and he's fucked in a day. Societies change and evolve on what they need. l2history+common sense...

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