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    Default Communism: How do we implement it?

    How do we implement global communism in the thoroughly capitalized way of life? It was easier in the past due to the fact that capitalism has not grown to enormous heights and power yet, but now I am not so sure.

    I certainly reject democratic "reforms" because lets face it, corporations are almost always more powerful then the rifted people nowadays. I too reject banding in communes because lets also face it, despite it happening there is no wide-scale implementation in already existing structures.

    Therefore I believe the best way to do it is through revolutionary struggle and by rejecting and destroying current form of government with a revolutionary one.

    However, the people today are not so much in favor of communist economies but rather capitalist and market-socialist economies. I too reject all these, and we would need a crisis to further people into the communist struggle.

    Another point then, is that we need to create an economic/natural/social problem. The past had convenience such as total wars, shortages of necessities and etc. but now there aren't any real problems. I see it that global warming perhaps, or maybe a greater collapse of the global capitalist system will bring about this revolutionary struggle.

    So, comrades, what do you believe is the best way to implement communism? You can certainly reject insurrection and favor graduality and Fabian style approaches, but lets discuss fully how we are to bring about this new order.

    EDIT: Also, what is your view in dealing with reactionaries? I for one favor shooting and killing the most active reactionaries to make a point and maybe demoralize other reactionaries. If this does not work I favor exile and/or massacres.
    Last edited by StrawberryClock; 08-22-2010 at 16:49.

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryClock View Post
    However, the people today are not so much in favor of communist economies but rather capitalist and market-socialist economies.
    People will always be against communism because it is contrary to human nature.

    That being said, the only way you can do it is by repossessing all arms first. Good luck with that. Also, due to our competitive nature, something communism lacks, we are more aggressive and cunning killers willing to achieve victory. Why do you think Russian officers used to carry pistols? So they could shoot retreating communists.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rokstarr View Post
    People will always be against communism because it is contrary to human nature.
    You cannot define human nature with any economic system present today. Capitalism is anti human nature.

    If you are going to make it on some belief of human nature that is consistent with original man, make a tribe of cooperative people with near-equal power but under a single leader, or maybe a tribe with some archaic form of consensus democracy with a gift-based economy.

    That being said, the only way you can do it is by repossessing all arms first.
    No, wrong. Arms are necessary for an insurrection against the corporatist-fascist government. Only sissy liberal market socialists don't want guns.

    Good luck with that. Also, due to our competitive nature, something communism lacks, we are more aggressive and cunning killers willing to achieve victory. Why do you think Russian officers used to carry pistols? So they could shoot retreating communists.
    Humans evolved more like ants the tigers. We are more dependent on cooperation then individuality.

    Soviet officers or commissars I imagine use pistols like an SS officer does, as an accessory. Its not really useful when you are going to shoot a retreating soldier with a rifle.

    Also, this isn't about criticizing communism, its about implementing it. It would be better if you contribute to that topic or don't contribute at all.
    Last edited by StrawberryClock; 08-22-2010 at 17:16.

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    Capitalism is the only system in the world that allows for cooperation. All cooperation ends when some people start telling other people how to use their property.

    Communism is just a bad philosophy that has no grounding in reality.
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    the only form of government which is not inherently based on a flawed psychological perspective of humanity, subsequently creating massive imbalances in society, is self-government.

    "we must be the change we wish to see in the world."

    "do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

    blah blah blah

    simple shit.

    environment & education are the key,

    you get out of people what you put into them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by raja View Post
    the only form of government which is not inherently based on a flawed psychological perspective of humanity, subsequently creating massive imbalances in society, is self-government.
    I agree. Self-government must also apply the best it can to economic systems, because lets face it, today's economic system is totalitarian.

    "we must be the change we wish to see in the world."

    "do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

    blah blah blah

    simple shit.

    environment & education are the key,

    you get out of people what you put into them.
    These maxims, and the environment and education are massive factors and probably prime among democracy for a sustainable commune.

    Today's capitalism is environmentally unstable, so the chickens will sooner or later come home to roost.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rokstarr View Post
    People will always be against communism because it is contrary to human nature.
    No its not, Most tribes and isolated civilizations live in what we would call a communistic society. They hunt, bring it home, share with the rest of the people that cant hunt or have other chores. People dont 'own' stuff because there's nothing of value and nothing to trade with. They make sure they survive and thats the most important thing, alone you are weak and voulnerable. Thats why they stick together and help eachother out.

    I say human nature is what we make it. It hasnt been the same for the past 250 000 years and we have changed a lot.

    There is nothing wrong with communism, you might not like it but some people can relate to it so let them. It has worked in the past but nothing lasts forever.
    Last edited by Captain Kirk; 08-22-2010 at 17:48.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Kirk View Post
    No its not, Most tribes and isolated civilizations live in what we would call a communistic society. They hunt, bring it home, share with the rest of the people that cant hunt or have other chores. People dont 'own' stuff because there's nothing of value and nothing to trade with. They make sure they survive and thats the most important thing, alone you are weak and voulnerable. Thats why they stick together and help eachother out.
    Exactly and when those tribes start to specialize they move away from communistic nature. If you want division of labor you can't have communism. And division of labor is the only way humans can actually produce enough to raise our standard of living.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverhandorder View Post
    Exactly and when those tribes start to specialize they move away from communistic nature. If you want division of labor you can't have communism. And division of labor is the only way humans can actually produce enough to raise our standard of living.
    As their numbers grow they do not feel the need to work as one and it pretty much goes downhill from there, and we are still moving in the wrong direktion today.
    Last edited by Captain Kirk; 08-22-2010 at 17:51.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverhandorder View Post
    Exactly and when those tribes start to specialize they move away from communistic nature. If you want division of labor you can't have communism. And division of labor is the only way humans can actually produce enough to raise our standard of living.
    No communist in there right mind rejects the essentialness of the division of labor. However, we do reject that division of labor should be permanent, and as Marx clearly points out, technology and machines will allow it so that we can close these divisions and reconcile ownership for the masses.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Kirk View Post
    As their numbers grow they do not feel the need to work as one and it pretty much goes downhill from there, and we are still moving in the wrong direktion today.
    It's down hill that you live in a house, own a PC and can feed your self? You are a fucking moron.

    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryClock View Post
    No communist in there right mind rejects the essentialness of the division of labor. However, we do reject that division of labor should be permanent, and as Marx clearly points out, technology and machines will allow it so that we can close these divisions and reconcile ownership for the masses.
    If division of labor will never disappear. Poverty will disappear long before division of labor does if it ever will. You are practicing a dead philosophy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Kirk View Post
    There is nothing wrong with communism, It has worked in the past but nothing lasts forever.
    History proves both of these things utterly wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverhandorder View Post
    What is poverty to you? Is it being the bottom 10% or is it not being able to feed one self? If it is the former then poverty will always be with us. But if you go out and actually talk to people about this idea they will reject you as a crack pot.
    Poverty is of course the latter defintion, and it does exist except it stopped being solely one society and started becoming differences of countries within one economic system via global capitalism. It however does still exist within society, although it is mitigated strongly with socialist programs.

    However, the idea of communism to create an equality arises out of the idea that society should have a more people-based and equitable distribution rather then having polarization.

    Marxism will never work it was thoroughly rejected every time it attempted to show it's ugly head. It's interesting but historically Marxists are amongst the most brutal and anti democratic people I read about.
    No, wrong. Marxism and communism is a massive field, with many advocates of democracy and fairness. The evil statist nature of it has historically been due to right-wing deviations such as bolshevism or maoism. If you read American 20th century history, the most anti-democratic forces were capitalists in its purest form, and the most democratic forces were unions(entirely different than communism, but its a strong likening).

    I mean, unions advocated for upholding laws, for safety protocols and for stronger bargaining and collective voting. They were massacred in some cases, jailed in others, and capitalists and the government banded to use scientific strikebreaking as they call it.

    It is making no comeback what so ever. The east is becoming more capitalist. The west is simply dying in it's socialism and will be forced to revert back to capitalism soon. 3rd world countries are a mix of capitalism/socialism/dictators. It isn't clear how they will work out.
    China is state capitalist, not communist at all but they have I heard promised healthcare. They had recently condemned Foxconn for worker abuse, so some forms of socialism might arise, although I have almost no hope left in Chinese communism and socialism. Japan is as socialist as any European nation.

    Canada and Europe still see the necessity of socialist structures. Its not even considered abandoning socialized medicine here since any politician that does that would be suicidal.

    Third world nations have archaic small markets and bazaars, but many of them, especially Africa and Latin America, were subjected to free-trade and imperialist-style capitalism. For example, look at Saudi Arabia. Its oil is not going to the people, instead going to Saudi state-capitalist organizations and further into the oil markets.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gloomrender View Post
    History proves both of these things utterly wrong.
    It did work somewhat in the past but it did not last. He is right on that part, but I don't see statism as working.

    I originally made this thread to troll people, but I think I am going to have to revert back to defending anarchist-communism rather then making people believe I was some hardliner bolshevist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryClock View Post
    It did work somewhat in the past but it did not last.
    Nope, never did. It didn't really "work", ever. Communism has never been successfully implemented.

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    Criminals will always get their weapons, it's the fucking lunatics that you should be worried about Colonist.
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryClock View Post
    Poverty is of course the latter defintion, and it does exist except it stopped being solely one society and started becoming differences of countries within one economic system via global capitalism. It however does still exist within society, although it is mitigated strongly with socialist programs.

    However, the idea of communism to create an equality arises out of the idea that society should have a more people-based and equitable distribution rather then having polarization.
    Socialism does not mitigate it it propagates it. Look at Scandinavian countries. Started out with almost perfect societies after 150 years of free market capitalism. Fucked it all up in less then 50 years. Their women birth demographics mirror American ghetos. Mothers are encouraged to breed children to get easy life and their children are mimicking them. 54% of kids born in Sweden are out of wedlock.

    Communism creates less prosperous society. There can not be equitable distribution in a poor society there is simply not enough resources to satisfy everyone.
    No, wrong. Marxism and communism is a massive field, with many advocates of democracy and fairness. The evil statist nature of it has historically been due to right-wing deviations such as bolshevism or maoism. If you read American 20th century history, the most anti-democratic forces were capitalists in its purest form, and the most democratic forces were unions(entirely different than communism, but its a strong likening).
    There is a word for people like that. They are useful idiots, they will defend it, rationalize it but in the end they will be thrown to the side by the thugs once the economy fails (it always does).
    I mean, unions advocated for upholding laws, for safety protocols and for stronger bargaining and collective voting. They were massacred in some cases, jailed in others, and capitalists and the government banded to use scientific strikebreaking as they call it.
    This is the first time I hear of scientific strike breaking. That is what you call it amongst other retarded concepts you use to define things that are already well explained.

    When unions advocate for laws that take away private property rights this is when they are dangerous. Unfortunately vast majority of unions fall into this category.


    China is state capitalist, not communist at all but they have I heard promised healthcare. They had recently condemned Foxconn for worker abuse, so some forms of socialism might arise, although I have almost no hope left in Chinese communism and socialism. Japan is as socialist as any European nation.

    Canada and Europe still see the necessity of socialist structures. Its not even considered abandoning socialized medicine here since any politician that does that would be suicidal.

    Third world nations have archaic small markets and bazaars, but many of them, especially Africa and Latin America, were subjected to free-trade and imperialist-style capitalism. For example, look at Saudi Arabia. Its oil is not going to the people, instead going to Saudi state-capitalist organizations and further into the oil markets.
    The Chinese will get all they are asking for as soon as their government stops holding up the west. It is coming, they are practicing aggressive mercantilism. China is massively liberalizing their economy in the process.

    Canada, Europe, America and Japan are going to experience a giant economic shock very soon. Society here is still very free and will immediately split on what needs to be done. Socialists can not argue because economics does not agree with their ideas and morally they are also reprehensible. With no free things to promise they will be resoundingly rejected.
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