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  1. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by Niburu View Post
    Thx for the update, But what i see is that we will see more diversity and maybe all the cool futures that these games really need in Q4 2010......the Hitpoint change will come in 2 month thats so damn long :-( But good changes anyway. i made a little text maybe you can read it and maybe it is a source for some ideas


    Overall ideas to make the game more interesting,combat wise without adding to exotic stuff.

    First of all you should always think about the fact that if you are good in one thing you will become bad in another.
    What we need in General: Skill gain is fine(except Witchcraft,Spellchanting,Buffs,Heal Spells),Stats gain is to slow and need a specialization.
    -Stats will level muuuch faster on mobs
    -You can have one stats maxxed to 110, one can be skilled up to 90,rest is capped at 75.
    -You can choose which stats will use all 110 points or only 75. Ofc all stats can be leveld up to 110 even if they are not activatet but if you skill up magic for example but it is capped at 75 you will still gain some stats but only 75 INT are used
    -Buffs will go over this cap, example if you have DEX capped at 75 the DEX bonus that you get from buffs will be calculated in the dmg formula
    -stats cap is 110 but you can Buff yourself up to 130 Stats points(to higher the use of Buffs even if you are at cap)

    Atm you have 3 combat styles ingame: Archery,Meele,Magic so thats the first choice of a player if he see's Darkfall. What do i prefer ? I would give the player the ability to "activate" 100 points in one of the three abilities,Archmage,Sharpshooter,Meele Mastery
    Example:
    -This means if you want to be a full mage you can put all your 100 points in archmage but your meele and archery is gimped
    -you can choose to add 75 points to archmage and 25 points to meele

    Archery:
    -Aquatic shoot should be part of every magic disableing specialization
    -more specializations for archery

    Meele:
    -more specializations
    -disable blow only works if the opponent is blocking

    Magic:
    -Bolt spells will fly much faster around same speed as arrows, no AOE
    -coasts for ALL bolt spells is 1 Mandrake=2g same as arrows
    -R50 AOE only does 20 % of the DMG from a direct hit, the use of R50 spells is the knockback to keep meelers away
    -R90/100 heavy AOE fire and they stay how they are
    -Water Magic hase a new spell that allows you to cast under water(Buff)
    -Launch is not effected by Enc.
    -Heal Mount is not effected by Enc.

    School specialization: If you choose to use a school of magic it will not allow you to use his counterpart. Magic schools can be activatet/deactivatet by Mage NPC's

    Magic School-Oppositing School

    Fire(Dmg school)<------------>Water(INT Buff,casting under water,good for magic to higher the DMG output)
    Earth(STR Buff,Meele Prot,Meele Support school)<------------>Air(Dex,Arrow Shield, Archery support school)
    Necro(Debuff,Blind,extra Heal spell)<------------>Arcane(Utility,Caster Support School)
    Witchcraft(extra Heal spell,Debuff's)<------------>Spellchanting(Support school to support others)

    Crafting:
    -You can only activate 1 mastery and the cooldown to change the activation is 1 week.


    What will this change ?
    -the adventage of a Veteran player is the possibilty to choose out of more playstyles and the new player can max out one path pretty fast and can be on the same level as a vet who playes the same spec.
    -we will see many different Roles in a Roleplaying Game

    Other overall targets that i think to be addressed to have more fun in DF is
    -remove the warning in system chat if someone is in your city
    -more craftable items, the mobs should drop the materials that you need to craft certain things and not the armor/weapon itself
    -more fluff that dont need PVP
    -better dungeons with rare mobs or mobs that only can be found there.
    -fix water logging
    -fix loading screen bug
    -fix mountet combat 360° hit ability( you can hit with sword an enemy behind you)
    I am totally against the opposing schools thing. If anything the player should be allowed to choose his schools and gets a benefit if he doesnt use all schools.

    Also giving starters points to allocate is kinda lame. Rather tweak the gain curves.

    The stat cap thing with buffs exceeding the cap means specialized characters that have no elemental magic are fucked- no good.

    But since this discussion is about character progression i would like to say that the timeframe of 4-6 months of becoming advanced by tripling the stats didnt work out. I invest not a fair amount of time but a shitload and after 4-6 months i was far from tripling my stats. Maybe things look better when you start now but that was not the case when starting from the beginning. I never cared for teh gap between me and veterans but according to your own timeframe it just didnt work out. So the statgain seems to be in place.

    What i would like to see is a much higher dropchance of those statgain potions. You rarely see them and a newb would really appreciate it to come across those more often.

    Furthermore the newbee problems will be getting worse overtime, as more players are becoming veterans and there is no end of getting skills and stats and gear (which i think is a good thing). So i think it is of great importance to closely watch how big the gap between veterans and newbs becomes at all time and have some mechanism at hand to tweak this.
    Darkfall:Fiona Swiftstrike - BdW Bewahrer der Welten
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  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Temko Firewing View Post
    i have to point out:
    Skill gain itself is quite fast... the problem is not that. it's that you need ALL of the skills in the game... and that takes a fuckton of time either way you turn it.

    presitge classes will prolly end this partly BUT... they could have made this never happen by just implemented prestige classes at release or *GASP* a hardcap and let people MAKE THEIR OWN choices.
    I hope hes right and prestige classes mean you dont have to grind so many skills to be an endgame pvp char. basically hope it acts like a skill cap.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by paxprobellum View Post
    Not wait I hear when you say "increase in stat gain", but I understand your argument. I would argue that vets are at least 2x better at getting stats than a noob (see: killing devils vs. killing goblins), so you'd be comparing 5x vs. (3x * 2) = 6x. Vets still win.

    Instead, put in diminishing returns for health increases (next patch. Check!) and let the stat pots flow.
    With your analogy, aren't vets going to get stat pots easier also?

    I agree with the diminishing returns but I still think it's retarded how slow stat gains are, you realize if stat gains were permanently increased the population would be flowing in right?

  4. #94
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    You know to make newbie players more competent at grouping an killing mobs and/or PVP how about a Mentoring system? I have played alot of MMOs and i think a decent system was the mentoring system in EQ2 although in this case it would be reversed to scale up the newbie player and not down a Veteran this way your not helping the newbie to an extent that it upsets others.

  5. #95
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    Random spawning world bosses that drop cool loot would be a way of creating a "PvP hot spot". The mob spawns a global message let's players know the general area in which the monster is. Lot's of hungry Pve's rushing to snatch and grab this boss, while other would come for the blood.

    Just make it spawn far away from any bank, or city. Like the tons of useless islands in the oceans.

  6. #96

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    Quote Originally Posted by cod3r_ View Post
    grind is about repetition. Don't make us farm mobs till our eyes bleed..

    Bring on a system of dymaic pvp quests that give you bonuses to skill gains for completing.

    make them dynamic so that people can not abuse the system and so that it's always different.

    "So and so is in X town, bring me his head"

    or "go to kosgar and bring back my stolen box"

    or "infiltrate mar shral and kill 2 within their walls"

    or "go to jeredan and take 10 ore from their mine"

    etc..

    give us crazy dungeons that at the end we get a cool boss that drops awesome shit..

    give us non static game play.. killing 3000 of every mob to get to ANY mastery is boring as hell.. and just changing mobs doesn't make it less boring..

    specialization is something, but does not solve the problem of overall boring progression..

    farming X mobs gave birth to the word "grind" in mmorpgs..

    make mobs a way to make gold and get mats, but give us lore and dynamic pvp content to build skills and have fun with..

    on top of all that keep adding awesome sandbox elements such as the strong box.. craftable, deployable, destroyable should be your motto!
    And this.

    Dungeons with bosses, missions, cool quests ftw
    Darkfall:Fiona Swiftstrike - BdW Bewahrer der Welten
    DarkfallUW: Zik Zik- BdW Bewahrer der Welten

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  7. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keno View Post
    This is actually a very good thing. Stat gains still need a increase though imo.
    Depends on the implementation. If vit 20 = 250 hp, vit 50 = 300hp, and vit 110 = 350 hp, I think the current stat gain would be fine.

  8. #98

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    Back in the days all we did was PvP, and just a tiny bit of PvE. Banded, arrows, some resin and later on mandrake as well was all you needed. You saw people jumping each other everywhere and so much people spending time on just PvPing. The people that were good at PvP didn't need to other things to be succesful because you were looting the gear, weapons and reagents.

    Till the moment some people started to grind up there magic because they felt like they needed to have advantage over other people and then the rest automatically followed. Now everyone's mindset is more focussed on leveling then PvP which is a sad thing to be honest.


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    Quote Originally Posted by World Dominator View Post
    Back in the days all we did was PvP, and just a tiny bit of PvE. Banded, arrows, some resin and later on mandrake as well was all you needed. You saw people jumping each other everywhere and so much people spending time on just PvPing. The people that were good at PvP didn't need to other things to be succesful because you were looting the gear, weapons and reagents.

    Till the moment some people started to grind up there magic because they felt like they needed to have advantage over other people and then the rest automatically followed. Now everyone's mindset is more focussed on leveling then PvP which is a sad thing to be honest.

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  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by electrofux View Post
    I am totally against the opposing schools thing. If anything the player should be allowed to choose his schools and gets a benefit if he doesnt use all schools.

    Also giving starters points to allocate is kinda lame. Rather tweak the gain curves.

    The stat cap thing with buffs exceeding the cap means specialized characters that have no elemental magic are fucked- no good.
    i don't know if iam wrong but you missunderstand some things.
    ArchMage/MeeleMastery/Sharpshooter are skills to higher the dmg output in one of the 3 playing fields. You have to train these stats but only 100 points will be taking into dmg calculation and these points can be adjustet by the player. example:
    you have 100 sharpshooter and 50 mastery and no archmage. You have spend all of your "activation" points in sharpshooter. You can skill up your meele mastery by using a meele weapon but the 50 points will not be calculatet into the dmg formula when you hit a target.

    Statscap+Buffs. It doesn't really matter because you also have to choose magic schools so you can't use all. And thats the reason behind the opposing magic schools. You can't simply grind up all and have all benefits from all schools.



    Sidenote: 7 sides of post in 1h....yeah spotlight section is really not in the focus of the players ^^
    Last edited by Niburu; 04-22-2010 at 22:57.
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  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by paxprobellum View Post
    Depends on the implementation. If vit 20 = 250 hp, vit 50 = 300hp, and vit 110 = 350 hp, I think the current stat gain would be fine.
    ^ this.

    on the one hand we go skills like defence/IP/rigor who reduce dmg by 1-2 dmg max and on the other hand we got HP differences of nearly 300 HP.

    i'm all for having a slight edge in combat. While the "impact factor" is right for rigor etc. you went completely crazy with stats and the utility of magic and weapon mastery. All of them are super duper uber. Shrink the damage tables and HP differences in general.

  12. #102
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    I knew you wouldn't let us down this time Tasos! Thank you

    Looking forward to all the future changes!

  13. #103

  14. #104

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    Tasos, good post except that your timeframes are off.

    2-3 months to be viable
    6+ months to be a veteral

    Those timeframes are only accurate if you spend a good amount of time afk macroing and swimming. I know so because I couldn't macro on EU with crappy ping and constant disconnects but come NA my character becase a beast.

    Reworking HP is a good thing but there is one HUGE thing that you're missing. You have to re-work spells/schools that are not leveled in PvE off mobs. I'm talking about player buffs/self buffs.

    For example I was recently leveling Adept and it took about 30.000+ casts/mandrake to max it and event more to level up the Spell Chanting school. Do you seriously expect people to sit at the computer casting the same spell 30 thousand times? I'm sorry but I'd rather grab 3000 mandrake, swim to the middle of the ocean and cast it on myself all night long while I'm sleeping irl. Now lets think about how many self buffs/ player buffs are there in game. Do you see my point and why this is a GRIND ?

    Forget about stats, hp ( though again re-working HP forumla is a good thing ) or any other stuff... that's the kind of stuff that makes people macro 24/7. If you want to keep macroing illegal then you have to make leveling spells reasonable.

    Oh and PS...
    Stop banning people for macroing please and losing subscribers. Give them in-game punishment instead... I've already suggested the "Jail" idea before ( Suggestions forum )
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  15. #105

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    Tasos your post did discuss timeframes of progression and how they got adjusted and the philosophy behind it is great.

    But..

    Tasos you avoided to show understanding for why people perceive these progression as "grind". So make notes please i give you some of that why's :

    1) People can't wait for 4 -6 months to be viable WHILE in same time being beaten up the whole time. No human like that and need some sort of feeling success in between to stay motivated.

    2) People don't like a certain playstyle. For example as PvP'r they don't like fighting mobs. The boost to PvE gains (up to 6x on magic) makes PvP lovers feeling handicapped.

    Possible Solutions

    to 2) Allow faster gains in PvP if the situation are safe from beeing exploited and if they aren't any right now change rules and mechanics to allow such.
    For example Sieges comes in mind. A situation of PvP in which gains should be 6x. Or introduce the "Clan sparring blue hour" for 1 hour in a day Clan mates have 6x gains while hitting each other.

    To 1) Introduce game mechanics that allow mid - ranged chars having some success themselves on Pvp. These is a difficult task but given it enough thought would pob rsult in some good ideas.

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