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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Camaris View Post
    Ok personally i haven´t of doubled my Stats after 2 months so perhaps im not playing a "moderate" amount of time.
    My Question to older players who didnt macro/afkswim is: Do you have around 60-70 in your stats after 4-6 months?

    To be honest im happy that you are gonna change something on the hp-formula!
    played 3-4 hours a day since beta, I got 80 in just about everything cept dex.
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  2. #152
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    Nice move and a good post, will be interesting to see where this is heading. I hope you throw some more cookies at us before the scheduled June expansion (be it information, art or actual implementations).

  3. #153
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    finally, some light on prestige classes...
    though Q4 is very faraway...i hope u manage to keep the game alive till them..i would love to try them out by then...

    for the time being i will wait to see what june´s xpac brings, then resub for couple of months (like with last xpac) and unsub till next expansion..

    i have no ideas about how to kepp ppl entertained, u clearly fail at that. but in the suggestion forums there are lots of good ideas to take into account..

    like territory control...also, bring the fucking harvesting NPCs in at once!!!

  4. #154

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    Nice to see AV's side of the situation, especially like the diminishing returns on HP. Was a bit disappointing to see they don't really seem to intend to change much else, but was nice to see their reasoning.

    I would love to see diminishing returns similar to the HP changes applied elsewhere. So for a spell there would be short term and long term goals with its advancement, rather than people feeling they need to go straight to 99/surging straight away. The difference between 1.0 skill to 75 is too much imo. Should be diminishing returns on the benefit at each level, so 1.0 level (as you buy it), its damage range and AOE is 70% of max for eg, then at 25 its 85%, 50 its 90%, 75, 95% and 99 you get the full damage range. Another way of doing it is to only change the minimum damage in the range at each level up, so the spell starts with max aoe and damage, but leveling it improves the minimum damage, making the range more constant. Now when you get a spell its useless in pvp until you grinded it up to at least 75. Its fine to have goals like leveling spells but it should not be forced on the player, more like a bonus for long term players.

    I would also like to see the minimum stat and minimum skill level for essential skills and spells reduced a bit. Witches Brew shouldn't require grinding up a whole school to 75. I don't see why every character needs to be a "Witch" spell caster to have an essential self heal..would like some cap on schools but yeah thats not going to happen

    As it is diminishing returns on HP is better than nothing, but its not enough for me to return to DF yet. I'll wait and see how people feel about the expansion in June, and might have another go then. Don't think I'll stomach the pveing tho to catch up as it is

  5. #155

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    Quote Originally Posted by Camaris View Post
    Ok personally i haven´t of doubled my Stats after 2 months so perhaps im not playing a "moderate" amount of time.
    My Question to older players who didnt macro/afkswim is: Do you have around 60-70 in your stats after 4-6 months?

    To be honest im happy that you are gonna change something on the hp-formula!
    I'm a 7 month player and my stats are about there. But only cause of afl macroing...

  6. #156
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    The other point is that hitpoints is not the be all and end all when it comes to pvp combat.If the vet hits you for 40 and you hit him for 25 you are going to lose no matter how many hits points you have.

    I guess anything that reduces the gap is to be welcome but I still believe that the main difference between a vet and a new player is the extra damage a vet does with his weapon and magic skills which nothing in this post suggests will take any less time to train.
    Last edited by Ginger Magician; 04-22-2010 at 23:53.
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  7. #157

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    one of the biggest time killers for the new player is time required to gather.

    Gathering needs to be seriously boosted for new players. I would personally scrap the entire mastery = faster gathering. gather at a single speed and have mastery impact gathering yield / rares.
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  8. #158

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginger Magician View Post
    The other point is that hitpoints is not the be all and end all when it comes to pvp content.If the vet hits you for 40 and you hit him for 25 you are going to lose no matter how many hits points you have.

    I guess anything that reduces the gap is to be welcome but I still believe that the main difference between a vet and a new player is the extra damage a vet does with his weapon and magic skills which nothing in this post suggests will take any less time to train.
    /facepalm

    You can get mid-level mastery in 2 weekends. This puts you on par for damage dealing with any vet player. stats will equate to ~5 pts of damage from newb to super vet.
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  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginger Magician View Post

    I guess anything that reduces the gap is to be welcome but I still believe that the main difference between a vet and a new player is the extra damage a vet does with his weapon and magic skills which nothing in this post suggests will take any less time to train.
    I think that the speed that melee mastery increases currently is too slow, but that's just my 2 cents.

  10. #160
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    Can't wait, prestige classes finally! Woot!



    Now all I need is for Eric Berry to be drafted by the NY Jets today and my day will be complete.
    Last edited by Preston; 04-22-2010 at 23:55.

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheVillageIdiot View Post
    one of the biggest time killers for the new player is time required to gather.

    Gathering needs to be seriously boosted for new players. I would personally scrap the entire mastery = faster gathering. gather at a single speed and have mastery impact gathering yield / rares.
    Thats bollocks.Gathering skills gain very quickly.I have trained alts to mastery level in gathering in a few days.Apart from the boredom associated with gathering mats I dont really see anything wrong with the gathering system in darkfall apart from the rarity of rare ores of course.
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  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tasos View Post
    This topic is so vast and it touches on so many related topics that we cannot possibly cover all bases in just one post. What we’re attempting here is to get the discussion started by giving some background, explaining our intentions, what we’ve identified as problems, what we’ve been doing to date, and what we intend to do short and long-term.

    In a nutshell: Our first goal was to give you a starting character which was useful on day one, and after a couple of months of having fun and learning to play the game, your character would become “viable”. After that, more character development, specialization, and high level content, but please allow us to save most of this last part for a subsequent discussion.

    The starting character: These are things we have talked about time and time again but they’re extremely important in order to understand the big picture, so please bear with us one more time:

    In Darkfall a starting character can attack and hit a veteran character and inflict enough damage to kill him after a few minutes if not challenged. In almost any other MMO this is impossible even for players that have played for a couple of months.

    In Darkfall a starting character can use any item in the game without restrictions. No level, ability, or quest restrictions. A starting character can access any area on the map, join a clan, group with any player he wants without penalties, participate in group PvE against any MOB in the game. A group of starting characters could fend off or even bring down a veteran character. A character straight out of the box can man a cannon, a warhulk, sail a ship, ride a mount, rez, loot, harvest, craft, destroy and repair buildings, capture a village, capture a city, capture a sea tower, can own a house – among many other things. A starting character can participate in all activities the game has to offer and he can be useful in many supporting roles.

    Which brings us to why we’re mentioning all this again: We start out with a grind-free philosophy. Everything we mention above, any other game would make you grind, claw, and fight for. Just the privilege of using various weapons could lead to months of effort. We could have easily done the same thing. We’re not trying to compare apples and oranges, but the point we’re trying to make here is that in Darkfall we can take these freedoms for granted, and they do carry over throughout your character’s lifespan.

    Let’s define what we mean by “viable” today: Timeframe: Approximately two months of a moderate time invested playing the game. Your character has most of the skills required for basic PvP combat, a decent supply of equipment in your bank, and you have approximately doubled your starting stats.

    After launch we identified several problems early on, on the way to becoming “viable” which we addressed by dramatically raising the gains while fighting monsters in both magic and melee, introducing changes in PvE, introducing auto-harvesting, added the Industry skill which reduces crafting time across the board, skill books and scrolls, attribute consumables, and last but not least we added newbie protection. We also added various time-saving measures including bag naming, auto stacking of items, and increasing ship speed. We feel that all these together help significantly improve the transition from starting to viable. There are several other things we’re working on which will help this even further. It made sense to us to focus on this first, it being the starting experience.

    Another concern for us is the transition from “viable” to “advanced”. By “advanced” we mean a character with high skills necessary for his preferred style of combat, a large supply of basic and intermediate gear, a fair amount of high end gear, and about triple his starting stats. Timeframe: 4-6 months of a moderate time invested playing the game. We believe that this is also a very important stage for a player. Most of the changes we implemented mentioned above during the starting to viable character transition also apply in this stage. One of our next measures will be implemented in our next patch: We are significantly changing the progression of hitpoints in a diminishing returns fashion. This is done to improve a character’s viability in PvP situations and to make players of all levels more competitive.

    Besides the hitpoint progression measure, we have been studying many other aspects of character development in our ongoing effort to address possible imbalances. We should also mention that we have decided to introduce temporary stat potion boosts in our next expansion scheduled for June 2010.

    While we’ve been addressing the starting and intermediate experience, we didn’t want to neglect the veteran players. We’ve been adding a lot of end-game content and a lot of new features in both our expansions and various patches in between. This is a topic for another discussion coming soon, during which you will discover that nothing is being done in a random fashion, and that everything we’ve been adding makes up a platform on which to build and improve on. We have been doing a lot of work on revamping many of these features and systems so that they can begin reaching their potential.

    A major feature on the way are the Prestige Classes. This is not a minor change, it will actually change the way Darkfall is played. They will take your preferred play-style to a new level and set you apart. These have been a long-term project that we’ve been working on for a while now. They will be a part of Darkfall 2010 launching sometime during Q4 2010.

    We are aware that there are many things to be said about the topic at hand and many arguments that can be raised. We do not pretend to have addressed the issue fully but we have the best intentions to do so over time. We are processing player feedback on this at a very high priority, and you deserve a lot of credit for it. It has taken over a year for us to get a handle on this massive system and during this time we have adjusted our thinking considerably. It's not our intention to sell you anything here, rather to give you a glimpse at the big picture as we see it. Our hope is that this can become the start of an on-going discussion on character progression issues. It may take a little time to process but we expect that we will come back with more food for thought based on the feedback we receive. In order for us to do this effectively, we will kindly ask you to please approach this subject with a spirit of good-will and cooperation, as we hope we have.


    Thank you
    I think there is a disparity between the developers idea of what is viable and advanced, to what a majority of players w

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheVillageIdiot View Post
    /facepalm

    You can get mid-level mastery in 2 weekends. This puts you on par for damage dealing with any vet player. stats will equate to ~5 pts of damage from newb to super vet.
    2 weekends?

    You certainly live up to your name.
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  14. #164
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    Oops I clicked submit.

  15. #165
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    good post tasos, i really liked this thing, very different from other software houses approach
    what is now keeping me away from df is not the grind, I really don't care about grinding in a game where player skill plays such an important role as it does in darkfall. I like the idea of understanding game's mechanics and use them, and trying to do it better than how my opponent does.
    what is really making me not paying for the game now is the fact that theres one single build everybody tries to reach, just like an asian mmo with only 1 toon where the difference beetwen players is only the level.
    prestige classes (aswell as cap) can solve this problem, but they can aswell introduce the infamous rock-paper-scissors gameplay that nobody really wants.
    so to me the real deal here is how to solve this problem, adding more skill-based combat mechanics (usefull parry/block, 2 secs counterspells etc) would surely help overall balance (aka "if you lose it's just cause you suck") and would mitigate the gap beetwen a skilled nub and a slowtard vet, but requires lagfree servers aswell as godlike skill creation powers. You will need to make every fight possibile, every toon viable, every player will have to know that he can win even the worst matchup if he knows what he's doing and trained well in using game mechanics (trained the player itslef, just like in an fps). another way to greatly raise the amount of skill df requires would be dramatically reduction of hp, making df a 3/4 hitko game where you think twice before open guard and swing a weapon. the more hits are required to kill someone the less the player will focus on dodge instead of just spamming swings counting on his better stats. of course this change would require magic to be less spam friendly, maybe with the introduction of that old never-implemented-feature that prevents the players to train opposing magic schools.
    dunno, that's what i can think now, i see the strenghtening of the skill-based element the only way to better face the problem and make the most playerbase happy, if you make a game where it's obvious that the best player wins then ppl will think twice before qquing about losing
    Last edited by tharon; 04-23-2010 at 00:08.
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