Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 26
  1. #1
    Normal User US1 Player
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    352

    Default A Technopoly the Real Totalitarian State

    (more interesting reads on totalitarianism than strawberrycock, and pirateglen go swashbuckle your gay lover and stay out of this thread.)

    So lately I've been reading a book by Neil Postman called "Technopoly".

    The book is a bit old, I think it came out around 1992, but I find it really fascinating. I have a slight addiction to technology in general. I tend to buy new things just because they are the newest technology even if they aren't noticeably better.

    Technology surrounds all of us and we are constantly progressing in its development. But how often do any of you stop to look around and look at the consequences of this advancement? I’ll admit, until I started reading this book, I NEVER thought about the real possible negative side of all this technology. I always thought scenarios like TERMINATOR were just a fake story.

    But that’s the problem. We've reached a point in society, at least in developed nations such as America (which postman calls a technopoly), that the development, implementation and integration of technology happens at such a fast pace, that most of us are using / needing the new technology before we even realize the change that has occurred.

    This creates many problems not limited to the following...

    1) A new elite class is created where the people who understand or know how to use the new technologies hold the power, allowing otherwise inept people to wield new influence.

    2) Creation of "information gluts". The wealth and speed of available information in a technopoly creates a disconnect with context, purpose or meaning.

    Kind of how forum fallers pretend to be smart on every topic through use of the internet, without really understanding anything.

    Extrapolating this, when there is such a LARGE amount of information out there, it creates the possibility to refute pretty much any argument (AGAIN CONSTANTLY SEEN IN FORUM FALL); this in turn makes ALL INFROMATION USELESS.


    3) In the long run, he theorizes, it will be the cause of the destruction of the human race. Through many different possible outcomes, all revolving around GNR or genetic engineering, nanotechnology, and robotics, and / or a combination of all 3.

    A) Machines will take over ala terminator, with self replicating robots.

    B) The “gray goo” scenario will become a reality through unleashing self replicating nanobots that consume every carbon atom on the planet. The movie “the day the earth stood still” shows this with their version of those tiny alien spiders that consume everything.

    C) The human race isn’t destroyed by machines. Instead, in order to compete with machines humans decide to adapt through combining machine technology with humans, i.e. cyborgs etc. Though part human at first, he argues it will reach a point where we have so much machine in us, we forget what it means to be human anyway so we still destroy the human race.

    D) Other essays provided in the book “technology and its future” by ALBERT TEICH argue, this is the natural direction for human evolution and it is our destiny to merge with machine and for humans to eventually be replaced.

    HOW IS A TECHNOPOLY TOTALITARIAN? Because it has reached a point where all parts of society or culture are consumed or controlled by technology whether a person likes it or not. This cannot be stopped or reversed. America has reached this point. Technology for better or worse controls all of our lives, and this is only the beginning.

    TLDR Summary: All the sci-fi movies are true. Technology is increasing exponentially and it cannot be stopped at this point. Humans are too quick to enjoy the benefits of technological advancement and too stupid or slow to realize the consequences it bears. It is inevitable that self replicating robots or nanobots will be created. It is also inevitable that machines will become smarter than humans (postman predicts 2030 this will initially be achieved). In the long run, we will either be defeated by machines ala skynet, or we will try to adapt through integrating humans and machines. In the later scenario, humans are still destroyed, just more gradually.

    If you have any interest in technology I really recommend reading this book ("Technopoly" by Neil Postman). It is simply fascinating and will really open your eyes to the fact that humans are heading down a path of self destruction through technology. ALSO, this is not some fiction book, there is plenty of reference and resources with supporting facts provided.

    If your even more interested, read “technology and the Future” by Albert Teich. This book is a compilation of works from all the leaders in this field. It discuss all the various viewpoints on the end point of humanity, and the possible things we can do to brace for it (it cannot be stopped).

    BEFORE YOU IDIOTS OPEN YOUR MOTHS AND SAY THIS IS SIMPLY NOT POSSIBLE, read the books (I know you won’t) and then try to argue that it isn’t possible. I bet you can’t.

    HAVE ANY OF YOU READ EITHER BOOK? OPINIONS?

    /discuss
    Last edited by carebearkilla; 03-30-2010 at 22:57.
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Kirk View Post
    And I dont blow men on the street, so that was a pretty stupid thing to say aswell wasnt it...
    Quote Originally Posted by 88Chaz88 View Post
    What if I took you out to a fancy dinner?
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Kirk View Post
    as long as I dont have to do it in a dark alley I'm all game

  2. #2
    Normal User US1 Player
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    352

    Default

    Just wanted to clarify, Postman doesn't say technology is ENTIRELY bad. He admits that it can be extremely beneficial. So he doesn't blame technology for our future downfall. He basically blames humans, because we are too stupid / greedy to accept the flaw of technology and the "tragic view".

    As history shows us, humans are hardly ever proactive when it comes to such warnings. We are reactive. The problem is, when it comes to advancement of technology, being reactive is too late. Broad sweeping changes occur too fast and the simultaneous benefit it bears makes us blind to the consequences, further slowing the realization of the downside.

    Also as history shows us, when any species (humans) comes in direct contact with a superior species (faster, stronger, more intelligent, i.e. robots) the results are always similar. The superior species will eventually, in one way or another, defeat / eliminate the other.

    A nice short video showing this catch 22, grey goo and all.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_T2tmT8KLdI

    Have to admit though, as sad as this is in the long run, I kind of wish I was born a few centuries later. Having cyborgs would be pretty fucking sweet.
    Last edited by carebearkilla; 03-31-2010 at 00:35.
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Kirk View Post
    And I dont blow men on the street, so that was a pretty stupid thing to say aswell wasnt it...
    Quote Originally Posted by 88Chaz88 View Post
    What if I took you out to a fancy dinner?
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Kirk View Post
    as long as I dont have to do it in a dark alley I'm all game

  3. #3
    2000+
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Desert
    Posts
    2,077

    Default

    Cool story bro
    NorseFire, Coming to a Country Near You
    Quote Originally Posted by GFH_Spike View Post
    I had already honed my e-warrior talents prior to Forumfall, so this homoerotic, misanthropic train wreck of mass parental failure touches my heart instead of shriveling it.
    Quote Originally Posted by dakara View Post
    Obama will be a good president...hes just learning the ropes right now.

  4. #4
    1000+
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    1,149

    Default

    Haven't read Technopoly, but Postman's "Entertaining Ourselves to Death" (or seomting close to that) was good. Same-ish themes as Technopoly apparently.

    If memory serves... he was basically saying that Orwell was wrong with 1984, and Huxley was right with Brave New World. People shall love their slavery.

  5. #5
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    4,582

    Default

    I didn't read it yet but I'd like to offer a few points. The increase in technology means the decrease in privacy and creation of very hidden things in society. The reason the unabomber carried out his plot was precisely because he believed the increase in technology meant the decrease in freedom and the increase in the ability for the government to invade your privacy.

    Also, technology has a way of making us drone-like and complacent, where we continually desire to get better technology and overtly consume, partly desire but often(observing cellphone buying trends) for outward appearance, while at the same time working for it. This doesn't necessarily apply solely to technology, but it is a major presence and reason.

    This system is basically a leash, and according to Social Marxism from the Frankfurt School, they likened this idea to a totalitarian state. We are indoctrinated to buy things we don't need so that we'll put in our labor.

  6. #6
    8000+ Long term follower Tenebrion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    California
    Posts
    8,727

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Oo_ View Post
    If memory serves... he was basically saying that Orwell was wrong with 1984, and Huxley was right with Brave New World. People shall love their slavery.
    Brave New World was, by far, the more accurate prediction of the dystopian present than 1984, and a present that most people still aren't, and likely never will be, aware of.

    As far as the possible oncoming usurping of man by machine goes, that is something I don't particularly fear, because if modern society has taught me anything, it's that man wants nothing more than to be a closer part of the technology at their disposal - and metaphysic debates of "what is human?" aside, we'll sooner see humanity become the technological swarm than, than see ourselves be consumed by it.

    If you want to fear something, fear the corporations that will rule that technology, not the technology itself. After all, the world we live in, unbeknownst to most, is a corpocracy taking its first steps in infancy ; in another generation or two, "Government", in the sense that our forefathers knew it, will be a thing of the past.
    Last edited by Tenebrion; 03-31-2010 at 06:14.

    Enchanting Information

    Darkfall : It needs more cows
    -Lord Tenebrion
    The Mercenary Merchant :
    Most Powerful Man In Agon.

  7. #7
    Normal User US1 Player
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    352

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tenebrion View Post
    Brave New World was, by far, the more accurate prediction of the dystopian present than 1984, and a present that most people still aren't, and likely never will be, aware of.

    As far as the possible oncoming usurping of man by machine goes, that is something I don't particularly fear, because if modern society has taught me anything, it's that man wants nothing more than to be a closer part of the technology at their disposal - and metaphysic debates of "what is human?" aside, we'll sooner see humanity become the technological swarm than, than see ourselves be consumed by it.

    If you want to fear something, fear the corporations that will rule that technology, not the technology itself. After all, the world we live in, unbeknownst to most, is a corpocracy taking its first steps in infancy ; in another generation or two, "Government", in the sense that our forefathers knew it, will be a thing of the past.
    You most definitely have a point about fearing the corporations that rule that technology. The book discusses this and explains how people who have no business in controlling the "larger state of affairs" will do just that. Technology will create a new elite class through direct knowledge and understanding of future complex technologies.

    But you should fear the man vs. machine.

    Ever hear of Ray Kurzweil? Granted, he can come off as somewhat of a nut at times but you have to give the man credit. If you look into the accuracy of his past predictions, the man is always spot on. Currently he predicts the "singularity" will occur within the next 3 decades.

    A long but interesting interview with the man

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QROMNOEI3PQ
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Kirk View Post
    And I dont blow men on the street, so that was a pretty stupid thing to say aswell wasnt it...
    Quote Originally Posted by 88Chaz88 View Post
    What if I took you out to a fancy dinner?
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Kirk View Post
    as long as I dont have to do it in a dark alley I'm all game

  8. #8
    2000+ Chris Windblade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    MiDDle EaRth
    Posts
    2,932

    Default

    not sure if you knew but all three points of gnr have been around for quit a long time. I don't understand tho is why if some one takes the time to become smart at something. why do most people think that the smart should have to share or give up there hard earned work for free?
    Get the latest infodarkfallonline.com/uw/
    If you have account issues, please send an email to noaccount@aventurine.gr - This will create a support ticket directly to help Aventurine track your issue and resolve it.

    Latest Videos

  9. #9
    Normal User US1 Player
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    352

    Default

    Not anything of particular importance but pretty interesting and informative video on nanotech for those who don't know anything about it.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sITy1...02CC8&index=17
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Kirk View Post
    And I dont blow men on the street, so that was a pretty stupid thing to say aswell wasnt it...
    Quote Originally Posted by 88Chaz88 View Post
    What if I took you out to a fancy dinner?
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Kirk View Post
    as long as I dont have to do it in a dark alley I'm all game

  10. #10
    Normal User US1 Player
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    352

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Windblade View Post
    not sure if you knew but all three points of gnr have been around for quit a long time. I don't understand tho is why if some one takes the time to become smart at something. why do most people think that the smart should have to share or give up there hard earned work for free?
    I know many of these GNR points have been around for a while. It's just that I never really took the potential catastrophic effects very seriously, and thought all the doom saying though probable was largely just sci-fi. Reading Technopoly made me realize just how non-fictional and dangerous it really not only is, but how soon this danger looms.

    To your other point. I don't think that the smart MUST give up their hard earned work for free when they invest so much time and energy into it. I actually believe in the opposite. AT LEAST AT THIS POINT IN HISTORY.

    The difference lies in the exponential nature in advancement of GNR. In a hundred years or so, when technologies become so complex and powerful, the leaders in the fields will yield an unprecedented amount of power. This power will reach far beyond said fields because wielding such knowledge that the average person will know little about, means the wielders will be able to dictate the direction and future of the technology and therefore the direction and future of society as a whole. This is a major difference and quite scary.

    Example: take Hitler and the holocaust. More or less, he managed to kill 6 million Jews in about 6 years. With GNR, a new bioweapon can be created to target very specific genes. Such a weapon can be unleashed on the world, and could kill with perfect efficiency and at the same time target a specific demographic like Jewish people. 6 million Jews could be killed in 6 weeks, without affecting anyone else. Even if the creator of the parent project didn't intend this, just as anything else, it can easily fall into the hands of a crazy like Ahmadinejad.
    Last edited by carebearkilla; 03-31-2010 at 08:29.
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Kirk View Post
    And I dont blow men on the street, so that was a pretty stupid thing to say aswell wasnt it...
    Quote Originally Posted by 88Chaz88 View Post
    What if I took you out to a fancy dinner?
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Kirk View Post
    as long as I dont have to do it in a dark alley I'm all game

  11. #11
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Outside the box
    Posts
    13,414

    Default

    Kurzweil is the shit! 2029 (he says) will be the year where AI comes to live. From then on it's a piggy back ride on science faction.

  12. #12

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by carebearkilla View Post

    Example: take Hitler and the holocaust. More or less, he managed to kill 6 million Jews in about 6 years. With GNR, a new bioweapon can be created to target very specific genes. Such a weapon can be unleashed on the world, and could kill with perfect efficiency and at the same time target a specific demographic like Jewish people. 6 million Jews could be killed in 6 weeks, without affecting anyone else. Even if the creator of the parent project didn't intend this, just as anything else, it can easily fall into the hands of a crazy like Ahmadinejad.

    If Ahmadinejad would use such a weapon he would like kill half of the middle-east, parts of Europe and US. The only region that would remain largely unaffected is Asia and West, South and Central-Africa.

    Chances are that Ahmadinejad will do nothing of that sort anyway, it's the Supreme Leader (currently Ali Khamenei) that decides these things and these people are highly political beasts. Launching such weapon will likely gain the ire of Muslim nations that will promptly blow Iran to kingdom come, so it would not be in the political interest of the Supreme Leader to order such a thing.
    Wisdom Of Bots
    1, then tired, do not forget to smile; be anxious, but also pay attention to tone; no matter how tough, do not forget to adhere to; No matter how tired, but also love yourself.
    But we are jet modified and not faint-hearted of difficulties

  13. #13
    4000+ EU1 Player
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    4,328

    Default

    C) The human race isn’t destroyed by machines. Instead, in order to compete with machines humans decide to adapt through combining machine technology with humans, i.e. cyborgs etc. Though part human at first, he argues it will reach a point where we have so much machine in us, we forget what it means to be human anyway so we still destroy the human race.
    Yeah... no... go back to Hollywood

  14. #14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by carebearkilla View Post
    C) The human race isn’t destroyed by machines. Instead, in order to compete with machines humans decide to adapt through combining machine technology with humans, i.e. cyborgs etc. Though part human at first, he argues it will reach a point where we have so much machine in us, we forget what it means to be human anyway so we still destroy the human race.
    Oh no, our reproductive ability and evolutionary lineage will no longer determine who we are! I am struck with abject horror at the very notion.

    We've been becoming more "machine" ever since the usage of tools. People need to get over their arbitrary technophobia.
    Quote Originally Posted by Friedrich Nietzsche
    The constant fluttering around the single flame of vanity is so much the rule and the law that almost nothing is more incomprehensible than how an honest and pure urge for truth could make its appearance among men.

  15. #15
    1000+
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    1,149

    Default

    he argues it will reach a point where we have so much machine in us, we forget what it means to be human anyway so we still destroy the human race.
    Quote Originally Posted by PrimalSign View Post
    Oh no, our reproductive ability and evolutionary lineage will no longer determine who we are! I am struck with abject horror at the very notion.

    We've been becoming more "machine" ever since the usage of tools. People need to get over their arbitrary technophobia.
    Sounds like you have progressed down that path rather nicely already

    I still haven't been able to decide whether Kurzweil and the transhumanists are the coolest thing since ...whatever or just some weird suicidal death cult, Jonestown with style.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •