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Thread: Expansion AI

  1. #16
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    One of the best spotlight articles so far.

    More of that in the future please.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by CattBoy View Post
    I guess I agree they could use a minor tweak.

    But overall it just requires more patience and "mob learning". Think back to the Block + Mount Kick days, da history hast' repeatd itz self
    Yeah, having to mount whore mobs is not interesting, and without mounts, there is not efficient way to kill a DMage, you'd think it would be mellee, but they destroy anyone in mellee, let alone range cause they'll rape you with surging nukes.

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  3. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cailian View Post
    Thanks for this, but a Deathless Mage wears robes and I still do only 5-6 damage with an arrow. Kinda weird.
    Because they are DEAD.
    Last edited by Yakamoz; 12-10-2009 at 20:23.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yakamoz View Post
    Because they are DEAD.
    So what should we use to effectively kill whats already dead???
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    idiot dont ask a question if you arent prepared for an answer.

  5. #20
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    bone exarch loot needs to be rebalanced

  6. #21
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    Good write up, alot of mobs still do far to much damage with spells and melee though. Elf wraiths for instance still hit for 60-90+ with spells and then whoop you for 25-50 melee style VERY fast. Alot of mobs do hell of a alot of magic damage and then still do alot of melee damage. Make its kinda tough to level 2hrs. Over all I love the changes though and keep them coming.
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  7. #22
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    great post , love the way this game is going for rpg whit fps style play and not pure fps mindless arena fights. Hope you make more posts like this about future updates and your plans so players dont flame on forums but know what game you are making.

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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junkaboy View Post
    So what should we use to effectively kill whats already dead???
    I prefer an axe. If you sever the brain stem or do severe damage to the brain, most zombies will die...

    ... err... nevermind, thought this was the "How to survive the zombie apocalypse" thread.

    On topic though, excellent spotlight, this is something that would keep the community calm and happy if we were informed about the rationale behind changes.

    Now Mr. White, the only thing I desire now is an official statement from Aventurine on what they plan on doing about the horrible exploiting going on in Agon, and if they aren't going to be doing anything, why that is the case.

  9. #24

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    So far what they set out to accomplished has happened. For example: Me and a friend killed a Black Knight spawn by both of us archer'ing down the Greater belows. Then I would cast Lightning magic at the Black Knights to soften them up and he would run up and melee them down while I casted Sacrifice and Heal Other on him.
    wat
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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by screw loose View Post
    So far what they set out to accomplished has happened. For example: Me and a friend killed a Black Knight spawn by both of us archer'ing down the Greater belows. Then I would cast Lightning magic at the Black Knights to soften them up and he would run up and melee them down while I casted Sacrifice and Heal Other on him.
    what do they drop now? I haven't killed a BK since like pre pre expansion pre pre pre pre pre pre patch

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  11. #26
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    Change poles back plz !

  12. #27
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    First, i would like to thank the devs for this explanation.

    I agree with most of what was done but i think it still requires a little bit of work to be considered a finished revamp.

    I would like to know why some mobs are using only surging spells: I have no issues with mobs using high rank magic but them surging on every one of them?!? Some melee mobs also do this as well; it's very appparent vs bleed power attack type damage mobs, ticks of 6-7 are actually brutal when you get 3-4 stacks on you.

    Also some mobs melee capabilities are a little out of whack; 40-50 dmg with a 1 hander on full plate every hit is not balanced. Not for something that drops 200-500g and has over 3k HP.

    If you want to make group challenges (like the dragons etc)with normal mobs you can always just label some mobs with a prefix/suffix denoting increased difficulty/reward and make sure they have loot to match (prefix/suffix them like elder, ancient, master etc.)

    Lastly, please review enchanting components from mobs, the patch made it harder to get components that were already a pain to get. You could also just reduce the components needed for enchanting to 1 instead of 5.
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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by screw loose View Post
    So far what they set out to accomplished has happened. For example: Me and a friend killed a Black Knight spawn by both of us archer'ing down the Greater belows. Then I would cast Lightning magic at the Black Knights to soften them up and he would run up and melee them down while I casted Sacrifice and Heal Other on him.
    And so, the Darkfall 'Pocket Healer' is born. CattBoy the healer is coming!

    Quote Originally Posted by TNoD View Post
    what do they drop now? I haven't killed a BK since like pre pre expansion pre pre pre pre pre pre patch
    Drops:
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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junkaboy View Post
    So what should we use to effectively kill whats already dead???
    Holy
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    The only thing AV is successful at is disappointment. Seriously, wtf is wrong with these guys.
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  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. White View Post
    This write-up comes from the AI department and specifically George Passalis senior AI programmer for Aventurine:

    "There were two server side bugs responsible for a lot of the confusion after the expansion launched: One had to do with the spell cool-down which was disabled and as a result they were machine-gunning their spells, and the second had to do with the mobs being completely immune to arrows after their protections had been erroneously increased. The first bug was fixed in Monday’s patch and the second one should be resolved after today's server patch.

    Apart from the unfortunate bugs, we'd like to explain a bit of the rationale behind the changes in AI:

    PvE in Darkfall lacked diversity to a certain extent. A single skill and tactic combination was the most efficient and risk-free way of killing mobs (shooting arrows at the edge of the mobs’ range). A highly skilled archer following the above tactic could pretty much solo most mobs in the game. This created imbalances in gameplay, as all other skills in the game (especially melee skills) were inferior to archery for PvE purposes. Additionally, there was no real reason to group PvE, as one could solo the high level mobs with arrows without much risk and without having to share the loot.

    The changes introduced in the expansion follow the “risk vs reward” principle. We want the PvE experience to be diversified. We want players to get big rewards only when they take big risks. We definitely do not want players to dominate PvE with a very low risk tactic. We want different mobs to require different tactics, so that a player can assume different roles depending on the tactical situation. We want certain mobs to pose such a big risk that group PvE actually has meaning (divide the risk but also the loot). We want to see more player cooperation in PvE and of course more PvP to occur around PvE hotspots.

    To achieve this we improved the AI behavior and significantly amplified the mobs’ strengths and weaknesses. For example, skeletons get a big bonus to unholy, piercing and arrow protections but receive a penalty against bludgeoning, acid and holy damages. Mobs that wear metallic armor get a bonus to arrow protection but a penalty against acid and lighting damages. Furry mobs get a bonus to bludgeoning protection but a penalty against fire damage etc.

    The new changes aim to make players use a variety of skills in PvE and use different tactics depending on the mob type. Archery is no longer effective against all mobs, but the same is true for any magic school or any melee skill. If a skill is not optimal it doesn’t mean that it’s useless. For each mob, there are usually several different skills that are not optimal but are still effective. However, certain mobs, especially high level ones, can be completely immune to certain skills in order to promote diversification.

    We’re not trying to force players to change their favorite skill in order to survive in Agon. Thanks to the loot rebalancing, there are several profitable mobs that suit any play style. We made PvE more diverse not to punish players that favor a specific tactic, but to create room for all tactics.

    With the latest PvE changes, mage-type mobs do significant damage with their spells, but if the player manages to come close he can overcome them with melee. On the contrary fighter-type mobs are more efficiently killed at a distance as they are too strong to directly engage. Independently of the diversification, we’ve tried to eliminate easy ways of killing high level mobs. This means that most high level mobs are still soloable but the player must be really good and must risk expensive gear (high rank melee weapons, heavy armor, transmuted bows, lots of reagents etc).The more a player risks, the greater the potential rewards will be. We do not want players to take the easy shortcut to big rewards without actually risking anything of value.

    Regardless of the changes in mobs’ stats, the AI behavior was also improved. A lot of annoying bugs were fixed and mob tactics became more efficient. For example, it’s harder to kite a mob towards the end of its range in order to score an easy kill. Mobs try to fight players more effectively in long range combat but also try to make best use of their available skills in close range combat.

    The loot for several mobs was seriously increased since they weren’t profitable enough. We additionally increased the chances of rare item drops (including enchanted weapons) for most mobs. Also, all loot tables were randomized so that mobs will not always drop the same amount of items. Note that the randomized loot was increased on average for all monsters.

    Player’s feedback is always taken into consideration. We are closely monitoring our game servers and if we find an imbalance we will take the necessary measures to rectify it. We want to provide the best gaming experience possible and we will continuously fine-tune the PvE until the necessary balance is achieved. "
    Fantastic write up. Really reassuring knowing that the game is in the hands of people who know what they're doing, and are all for depth and diversity. I have renewed faith that PvE won't be reverted back to the dumbed down state it was in.




    Community staff are not paid employees of Aventurine. In all business our opinions are entirely our own, and do not represent official Aventurine opinions.

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