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  1. #721
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRCPan View Post
    Well you need to think a bit to see the diversity you can get with a system like that instead of sticking to my example, but I guess you lack the tools.
    Diversity from systems like that look cool on paper (or on pixels) but fail hard in real nerd-player environment.

    It's possible to be a lil bit of mage and a lil bit of cooking master, but ...

    Go find at least 10 moderately different PvP builds from UO. (Builded at same time, of course, as builds were changing from patch to patch. All of them.)

  2. #722
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRCPan View Post
    Numbers on what? You mean on the different builds? sure.
    With mage killer you get 1 build only. Basically 100LM 100GM 100WC and archery + melee. With a skill cap you get lets say 1 built could be 100FM 50WM 100Melee mastery, another built could be 99FM 51WM 100Melee mastery, another could be 98FM 52WM 100Melee, etc etc etc. Do the math yourself now.
    sorry i guess i wasn't clear enough. i was asking for the numbers that led you to believe that the number of subs is declining.

    Quote Originally Posted by Narcowski View Post

    (edit) Skill cap : never.
    this.
    .

  3. #723
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fugean View Post
    sorry i guess i wasn't clear enough. i was asking for the numbers that led you to believe that the number of subs is declining.
    Well I didn't say that the numbers were declining. I just said that that's what some people say when others say the numbers are declining, I guess I wasn't clear enough. They surely have declined though, the numbers the game had at the start of it's life were far higher, there was much more activity everywhere on the map for sure.
    Last edited by GRCPan; 10-01-2009 at 15:39.

  4. #724
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    deleted
    Last edited by Ganda; 10-01-2009 at 15:57.

  5. #725
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiva_Firewing View Post
    the idea of a "Class" is that you are set within a certain role. meaing from start to finish - you ARE in that role. you chose "defender" and thats basicly what ye'll be. you chose "assassin" and thats basicly what ye'll be. no diverging beyond set points with few shifts if ye'll be a defender with a shield or defender with dual wield parries. glee.


    the power of a "skillcap" is the fact that you, in fact, are NOT set in a certain roll from start to finish. YOU decide the role you wish to play and how to play it.

    i decide which skills to train up, and how to utalise them. i decide if i might NOT want a certain skill, and i decide if i want to exchange skills for another.

    that said. yes - players will use inferior templates over others, someone somewhere will post the "best template for X" or "the best Hyrbid Y" etc... and thats GOOD.

    becouse players get to decide how to play... instead of being told "ye can be anything, but.. er.. to actally be anything you ned to TRAIN EVERYTHING.
    No. Stop trying to mislead people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiva_Firewing View Post
    ...my clan is doing exactly what ever pvp clan is doing to keep up with the rest. it's not a matter of my complaining about my clan, i like my clan.

    the problem is that due to a lack of specialisation, diversity... you need everything to counter the opponents everything.

    you need 50 skill nukes to outnuke the guy doing 50 skill nukes on you, you need spell reflect to reflect a spell back becouse the other guy has it to...

    so it's not a matter of "sitting back and relaxing" - i do that wile playing the game. the difference is that to keep up, and due to a lack of skillcap.. you NEED certain skills.
    CLAN CAPS!!! ITS NOT FAIR THAT CLANS HAVE TO DO SHIT THEY DONT WANT TO IN ORDER TO COMPETE WITH OTHER CLANS!!!!1111 AV FIX THISSSSS WITH A CLAN CAP NAO!!!!!111


    Seriously. You people are funny.

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    Shiva needs to get back to WoW.

  7. #727
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRCPan View Post
    Well I didn't say that the numbers were declining. I just said that that's what some people say when others say the numbers are declining, I guess I wasn't clear enough. They surely have declined though, the numbers the game had at the start of it's life were far higher, there was much more activity everywhere on the map for sure.
    contradict yourself much? also, was it the magic '8 ball' that told you these things? or do you have some inside info your not sharing? as far as i have seen the world doesnt seem more empty, but rather more full.
    .

  8. #728
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacra Luna View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Elmi View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mikethemerchant View Post
    This thread is out of hand
    Just indicates how small your hands are.
    Okay, this made me lol irl.
    Best thing said in the last several pages.

  9. #729
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRCPan View Post


    I think you should either check the conversation or look in the mirror and repeat.
    Sorry - I reread it... and acknowlegde my error, sorry!

  10. #730
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ganda View Post
    Sorry - I reread it... and acknowlegde my error, sorry!
    Can you reread the rest of your posts too?

  11. #731
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draxous View Post
    Can you reread the rest of your posts too?
    Yes! I can, but wont do it

  12. #732
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    Quote Originally Posted by Narcowski View Post
    We know what's happening next though - basic bow and melee specialization abilities and more skills nearly immediately. Further on down the road: more skills and advanced specialization options.

    (edit) Skill cap : never.
    Although I don't know how you know that more skills will be coming "nearly immediately", but for arguments sake let's say that they will.

    If these skills are open for everyone to get, how is that creating diversity?

    If these skills are only available for your "specialization", isn't that building a "template class" which is what so many people are against?

    I'm not saying that this new system will fail, because I honestly hope it succeeds (and for the love of god attract new people), but I don't see how any "specializations" like what we saw with magic is going to create diversity.

    Another thing to think about is if they're going to let you specialize in all different categories, taking the penalty for each one. I mean, 25% mana penalty for the new archery perks? Really? That's the only "penalty" you get for going that route? If they open up the doors for all specializations to be got, the penalties better DAMN sure be a hell of a lot higher then that nonsense.

    Of course again, we won't know until we get more expansion information. All I hope is that Aventurine understands how hot this topic is and the fact that on both sides of the fence, pro and anti skill cappers, it seems most people do indeed want some sort of diversity. I just only hope that this new "system" can provide that, but somehow I really doubt that.

  13. #733
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fugean View Post
    contradict yourself much? also, was it the magic '8 ball' that told you these things? or do you have some inside info your not sharing? as far as i have seen the world doesnt seem more empty, but rather more full.
    Well I mean they have declined from what it was at the start of the game, but I don't know if they decline as we speak. I think it's kinda obvious though that the NA server caused a huge decline in the EU server.
    I don't know about overall subs, but I know what I see. And I see far less people on the EU server compared to what I saw at the start of the game.
    Last edited by GRCPan; 10-01-2009 at 16:24.

  14. #734
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kasmos View Post
    Although I don't know how you know that more skills will be coming "nearly immediately", but for arguments sake let's say that they will.

    If these skills are open for everyone to get, how is that creating diversity?

    If these skills are only available for your "specialization", isn't that building a "template class" which is what so many people are against?

    I'm not saying that this new system will fail, because I honestly hope it succeeds (and for the love of god attract new people), but I don't see how any "specializations" like what we saw with magic is going to create diversity.

    Another thing to think about is if they're going to let you specialize in all different categories, taking the penalty for each one. I mean, 25% mana penalty for the new archery perks? Really? That's the only "penalty" you get for going that route? If they open up the doors for all specializations to be got, the penalties better DAMN sure be a hell of a lot higher then that nonsense.

    Of course again, we won't know until we get more expansion information. All I hope is that Aventurine understands how hot this topic is and the fact that on both sides of the fence, pro and anti skill cappers, it seems most people do indeed want some sort of diversity. I just only hope that this new "system" can provide that, but somehow I really doubt that.

    What I don't get is how pro-cappers claim they want this or that because that's what they believe a skill cap will give them and then when an anti-capper explains how this game is heading in a direction that is giving them what they claim they want... without a skill cap...

    Yeah.

    This whole discussion has reached the realm of stupid.

    We're all DFO players. Anti-cappers keep coming to the table with compromises and suggestions to give both camps what they claim they want. Pro-cappers need not be pissed off that they painted themselves into a corner... we really want to be fair here... so I have no idea why so many are STILL bitching "no fair" because AV didn't cave into a few peoples whimsical wishes.

    Done.

  15. #735
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRCPan View Post
    Well I mean they have declined from what it was at the start of the game, but I don't know if they decline as we speak. I think it's kinda obvious though that the NA server caused a huge decline in the EU server.
    I don't know about overall subs, but I know what I see. And I see far less people on the EU server compared to what I saw at the start of the game.
    How do you know people aren't just playing less? The game was new and I know of many who spent the first weeks/months playing ALL the time... but once RL caught back up with them... yeah.

    You have no clue what the state of subscriptions in this game are. Your use of this assinine assumption in your argument is ridiculously weak.
    Last edited by Draxous; 10-01-2009 at 16:36.

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