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Thread: At Smokers:

  1. #1
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    Default At Smokers:

    http://www.nationalpost.com/story.html?id=1353213

    TORONTO -- The Ontario government will introduce legislation Wednesday that would allow the province to sue tobacco companies to recover costs associated with tobacco-related illnesses, Attorney General Chris Bentley said.

    Mr. Bentley said the legislation, if passed, would allow the province to directly sue tobacco companies for alleged wrongdoing and for the recovery of past, present and continuing tobacco-related damages.

    He said the legislation would create a method to determine health-care cost damages incurred by taxpayers arising from tobacco-related illnesses.

    The legislation would also establish the burden of proof required to link exposure to tobacco products to tobacco-related diseases and would allocate liability among tobacco companies by market share.

    British Columbia and New Brunswick have passed similar legislation and have initiated lawsuits to recover health-care costs. Newfoundland, Nova Scotia, Saskatchewan and Manitoba have also passed health-care cost-recovery legislation.

    Ontario annually spends more than $1.6-billion on tobacco-related health-care costs, according to the province


    Hmm, youre costing us money now too. But hey, who cares, as long as you get to slowly kill yourself, Ill gladly pay to keep you alive!

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    Hooray!
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    What makes this interesting is how your dismay with cigarette smokers stems from a feeling of having your rights violated. After all, THEY'RE the smokers, why should you pay for them? The simple answer is that you shouldn't. But does that mean they should not be allowed to smoke?

    Achieving "fairness" in socialism requires more government control, more socialism, which by nature, will be even more unfair. It is a self perpetuating system resulting, at the end of the day, in the forfeiture of the individuals rights.

    Canadians must press their government to reform their Health Care system back into capitalism if they wish to establish true liberty and freedom.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grei-UDL View Post
    What makes this interesting is how your dismay with cigarette smokers stems from a feeling of having your rights violated. After all, THEY'RE the smokers, why should you pay for them? The simple answer is that you shouldn't. But does that mean they should not be allowed to smoke?

    Achieving "fairness" in socialism requires more government control, more socialism, which by nature, will be even more unfair. It is a self perpetuating system resulting, at the end of the day, in the forfeiture of the individuals rights.

    Canadians must press their government to reform their Health Care system back into capitalism if they wish to establish true liberty and freedom.
    ...This has nothing to do with freedom, its just now giving us an excuse to lay on the guilt trip to the guy sitting next to me blowing smoke in my sons face while we eat.

    And why shouldnt smoking be outlawed? Its more harmful then guns and alcohol combined.

    Might as well also force resteraunts to allow smokers inside thought too, as they have a right to smoke, and no one should deny them that right, amirite?

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    I fucking hate those smelly rotting emos. Shove 'em off the planet!

    Talking about smokers, not Undead... WoW kind... Not the zombie ones, either... I mean Infected... Ugh, I'm confusing myself!

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    Cigarettes should be illegal along with other harmful, addictive substances.

    Why it isn't already baffles me. Oh wait, now I remember.

    It's because of the 5 cent production cost of a $5 pack of cigarettes.

    $$$ talks when it comes to government.

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    Ontario annually spends more than $1.6-billion on tobacco-related health-care costs, according to the province
    Fair enough, that probably is true. But how much does Ontario earn from us smokers? More than $1.6 billion. If the government didn't earn money from the smokers, smoking would be banned. Fact!

    And why shouldnt smoking be outlawed? Its more harmful then guns and alcohol combined.
    No it isn't. How can you even say a stupid thing like that? Don't you even think before you write?
    Alcohol related killings, drunk driving, alcohol rage, families desolving because of an alcoholic etc.
    Guns? Jebus.. You can't be fking serious??.. Smoking kills people at around age 45 -55 and up. That's another fact for ya. It takes a couple of years to get cancer. Oh, you thought it just came over night after your first ciggarette?
    Guns is the root of all evil. Guns are made to kill. Did you think that handguns were made to shoot deer? UZI? M16? AK47?
    Guns related murders: Gangwars, robbery, anything related to rage, ...schools... One ciggarettet never killed anyone. One bullet did.

    My god, you have to be an American. You dumb twat!


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    My greatest regret in life is that I will watch as the steady pace of liberty, which greeted the West in the eighteenth century and has spent a good deal of time with us in passing, leads it on its merry way away from us.

    Everywhere I see it -- people wanting to control and limit the simplest of freedoms (to do as thou wilt) out of fear, out of distrust, out of emotion. This is the death of liberty.

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    All I read is bla bla bla...
    And im smoking as I write this.

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    Well, I don't know about Canada but here's how it is in the UK.

    We can't smoke indoors in public places, that means not in pubs, restaurants etc.

    As well as that, a packet of smokes costs just over £5, and of that cost, almost £3 goes to the Government in the form of taxes. As it is, tax revenue generated by smokers is enough to provide healthcare for everyone afflicted by heart problems, lung disease or any other condition related to smoking, whether the sufferer is a smoker or not.

    That is why it always cracks me up when people here say that we are a drain on the healthcare system, when we do more, through our vile habit, to support it financially than any other group.

    The argument is fallic for other reasons. Would you recommend withholding treatment for heart patients because they are fat? They did it to themselves after all. What about someone who breaks their leg while skiiing? They decided to go skiing after all, why should my taxes pay for the result of their hobby?

    That said, if the Government truly gave a shit about the welfare of smokers and those around them, they would make cigarettes illegal. But as it is, the tax on smokes is just too much for most government to give up.

    The only place that has banned them completely is Brunei (I think) and that's mainly because the Sultan of Brunei and his government are one of the richest in the world.


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    No taxes -> No healthcare -> No goverment expenditure on smokers -> problem solved.

    All kinds of smoke should be legal and tax free
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  12. #12
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    they could just exclude smokers from free health care. would solve alot of issues.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonyak View Post
    they could just exclude smokers from free health care. would solve alot of issues.
    Aren't cigarettes taxed in Canada?
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    Quote Originally Posted by 88Chaz88 View Post
    Aren't cigarettes taxed in Canada?
    ya.

    I have yet to see how much of that actualy goes towards healthcare though.
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    I'll also find out where SSGuy is and blow him. Shaft, balls, swallow the gravy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chewbaccasdad View Post
    Well, I don't know about Canada but here's how it is in the UK.

    We can't smoke indoors in public places, that means not in pubs, restaurants etc.

    As well as that, a packet of smokes costs just over £5, and of that cost, almost £3 goes to the Government in the form of taxes. As it is, tax revenue generated by smokers is enough to provide healthcare for everyone afflicted by heart problems, lung disease or any other condition related to smoking, whether the sufferer is a smoker or not.

    That is why it always cracks me up when people here say that we are a drain on the healthcare system, when we do more, through our vile habit, to support it financially than any other group.

    The argument is fallic for other reasons. Would you recommend withholding treatment for heart patients because they are fat? They did it to themselves after all. What about someone who breaks their leg while skiiing? They decided to go skiing after all, why should my taxes pay for the result of their hobby?

    That said, if the Government truly gave a shit about the welfare of smokers and those around them, they would make cigarettes illegal. But as it is, the tax on smokes is just too much for most government to give up.

    The only place that has banned them completely is Brunei (I think) and that's mainly because the Sultan of Brunei and his government are one of the richest in the world.
    Chewbacca was raised to be a great and honorable warrior by his genius of a dad, apparantly.

    Well said. You hit the nail right on the head on several points there. I agree with you wholeheartedly.

    My two cents... (two pence?)
    In principle, the government should do one of two things:

    • Ban all harmful drugs (including cigarettes and alcohol) and get the tax money elsewhere to fund healthcare.
    • Legalize all harmful drugs and tax them at rediculously high rates so that the legal drug market pays for the increased healthcare demand.


    The argument to ban all drugs uses logic that could then be applied to fatty foods, fizzy drinks (brush your teeth!), and anything else that is harmful. This creates a downward spiral to the point where anything that is slightly harmful gets banned and the healthcare system is miniaturized due to lack of demand for it (from a 'healthy population') along with a near-total lack of funding because there is nothing harmful to put tax on.

    The argument to legalize all drugs is my preference. I believe that the world should be as free as possible because the only 'bad things' that would result are representations of our real nature, not fucked up tax-randsom-style artificial problems. Banning things is actually an act of censoring human nature.
    Last edited by rwp80; 03-13-2009 at 14:07.

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