A dyson sphere... I've heard it all now.

[Death's Chill]

If you're like me, you have no idea what the fuck a dyson sphere is. I just came across the concept on Wikipedia while reading up on the definitions of the different levels of civilization (on the Kardashev scale) when I found out that this is a means to collect all of the power from a sun, that a species would need to legitimately become a type II civilization.

There are variants of the concept, but my favorite one involves building a shell around the fucking sun. No gaps. No wholes. A 3 meter thick shell with a radius of one AU (astronomical unit), or 93 million miles.

The simple idea that this is being given real thought by a credible engineer, even though it's not even close to being thought of as viable, is still pretty fucking awesome. It would take thousands of years to build, maybe even hundreds of thousands, but think about it for a moment. Ponder the thought. The concept even involves it being a habbitable surface.

If we could do that, we'd effectively be harnessing the collective power output of the sun. Enough power to place us into a very respectable species. Maybe enough to warrant the respect of a type III life form. :eek:

[Threven]

By the time we even built a sphere around our sun it would probably die out.

[saltwaterteffy]

If you're like me, you have no idea what the fuck a dyson sphere is. I just came across the concept on Wikipedia while reading up on the definitions of the different levels of civilization (on the Kardashev scale) when I found out that this is a means to collect all of the power from a sun, that a species would need to legitimately become a type II civilization.

There are variants of the concept, but my favorite one involves building a shell around the fucking sun. No gaps. No wholes. A 3 meter thick shell with a radius of one AU (astronomical unit), or 93 million miles.

The simple idea that this is being given real thought by a credible engineer, even though it's not even close to being thought of as viable, is still pretty fucking awesome. It would take thousands of years to build, maybe even hundreds of thousands, but think about it for a moment. Ponder the thought. The concept even involves it being a habbitable surface.

If we could do that, we'd effectively be harnessing the collective power output of the sun. Enough power to place us into a very respectable species. Maybe enough to warrant the respect of a type III life form. :eek:

basically it sounds like we are killing a star in order to advance as a species...

thats all we know how to do though, destroy our environment :bang:

[Pcheez]

Im not big on astronomy and i dont know, but isnt the sun's radius larger than 1 au ? Im lazy today, no google or wiki

Plus, what would this material be that would withstand such proximity to the sun ?

All in all it would be feasible once we have the technology to even get close enough without being incinerated, of course thats a few millenia away.

Funky idea, given the human race doesnt annihilate itself before we get to that stage of evolution

[Death's Chill]

By the time we even built a sphere around our sun it would probably die out.

I highly doubt it would take us 5 billion years to build it. :p

[Naglfar87]

When I read the title I thought you made a post about the release of a new Dyson.

[chodie4u]

Did the engineer ever figure the natural resources required to build this sphere?

[saltwaterteffy]

i know just the man to pitch the idea too...

hint: you're gonna love my nuts!

[Death's Chill]

Im not big on astronomy and i dont know, but isnt the sun's radius larger than 1 au ? Im lazy today, no google or wiki

Plus, what would this material be that would withstand such proximity to the sun ?

All in all it would be feasible once we have the technology to even get close enough without being incinerated, of course thats a few millenia away.

Funky idea, given the human race doesnt annihilate itself before we get to that stage of evolution

Well no, the sun is fucking huge, but if its radius was one AU, it would be RIGHT in front of earth. That's what an AU stands for, the distance between the earth and the sun. 93 million miles.

Obviously the shell itself would be hallow. It would simply form a shell around it, but it would be positioned at the same distance as earth is.

The real problem is that it would not be gravitationally bound to the sun, as it would be far, FAR larger. So it could potentially drift straight into it, which would be disastrous.

[Threven]

i know just the man to pitch the idea too...

hint: you're gonna love my nuts!

I gigantic nut slapper! Yes I can see it now! mwhahahaha...

[Morbis]

Just for people who dont know, 1 AU (Astronomical Unit) is the distance from the Suns Centre to our planets orbit. So finding a suitable material wouldnt be the difficult thing, it would be getting enough of that material.

Its a nice theory to think about, but it would never be viable. I imagine that you would require more mass than we currently have in our solar system just to build the thing.

[Pcheez]

Well no, the sun is fucking huge, but if its radius was one AU, it would be RIGHT in front of earth. That's what an AU stands for, the distance between the earth and the sun. 93 million miles.

Obviously the shell itself would be hallow. It would simply form a shell around it, but it would be positioned at the same distance as earth is.

The real problem is that it would not be gravitationally bound to the sun, as it would be far, FAR larger. So it could potentially drift straight into it, which would be disastrous.

Yeah had a rare moment of forgetfullness there, a light year is the time it takes light to reach the earth from the sun.

/doh

So much for my retirement plans as an astrology amateur.

Edit : I always thought an AU stood for light year ! Astronomical unit eh ? Learn something new everyday.

[Death's Chill]

Did the engineer ever figure the natural resources required to build this sphere?

Yes, it would take 1.82 ×10 to the 26th power in kg of raw material to be able to construct it with a thickness of up to 20 cm.

That's a number hard to even comprehend.

Yeah had a rare moment of forgetfullness there, a light year is the time it takes light to reach the earth from the sun.

/doh

So much for my retirement plans as an astrology amateur.

Haha... well actually no. A light year is the time light travels in one year inside a vacuum, close to 6 trillion miles.

[Pcheez]

Yes, it would take 1.82 ×10 to the 26th power in kg of raw material to be able to construct it with a thickness of up to 20 cm.

That's a number hard to even comprehend.



Haha... well actually no. A light year is the time light travels in one year inside a vacuum, close to 6 trillion miles.

An 09er's skull ?

[Death's Chill]

What?

[Pcheez]

Haha... well actually no. A light year is the time light travels in one year inside a vacuum, close to 6 trillion miles.

Thanks, you just decimated my dreams of ever becoming an astrologer, i obviously fail terrible at it.

Those high school physics books lied to me, or i wasnt paying attention.

An 09er's skull would be dense enough, that was the joke.

[chodie4u]

Yes, it would take 1.82 ×10 to the 26th power in kg of raw material to be able to construct it with a thickness of up to 20 cm.

That's a number hard to even comprehend.


So, in other words, by the time we have the means of procuring that amount of raw material, a better idea would have been conceived.

[Apex Vertigo]

So, in other words, by the time we have the means of procuring that amount of raw material, a better idea would have been conceived.

Pretty much. Would be pretty sad if we embarked on building a giant hollow death star around the sun only to realize we've wasted a few thousand years because of some new discovery we find.

[chodie4u]

Pretty much. Would be pretty sad if we embarked on building a giant hollow death star around the sun only to realize we've wasted a few thousand years because of some new discovery we find.

Means for an ultimate /facepalm

[Death's Chill]

So, in other words, by the time we have the means of procuring that amount of raw material, a better idea would have been conceived.

Well, it depends for what exactly. This is a neat concept, but unless we can harness the power of say, a black hole, nothing much else will come close to producing more energy. At least as far as we know now. In a hundred thousand years, who knows? :D

Pretty much. Would be pretty sad if we embarked on building a giant hollow death star around the sun only to realize we've wasted a few thousand years because of some new discovery we find.

It would still be useful in showing off to our extraterrestrial neighbors. We have the best dyson shell, you noobs.

[LordRolo]

Actually according to dysons original figures that is wrong,

to build a dyson sphere that can stand the millions and millions (well billions actually) of years to takes for all of the energy in a sun to preform fission, and for the dyson sphere to become a viable source of energy, the sphere would have to be unbelievably thin, talking about a few atoms across made out of super hard material but also a almost perfectly effective conductor that can absorb 100% of the suns rays, also it would have to be father away from the sun than the oort cloud is right now, now that is HUGE, i mean unimaginably HUGE.

right imagine the largest thing is your head, well now imagine it larger, now factor it by 10, right I can promise you its larger than that.

resources wise it would exhaust multiple solar systems of metal.

the way dyson actually calculated it to stay a perfect sphere and not collapse in on itself it by the radiation of the sun holding it up like the air in a balloon 8D. which is why it has to be so thin.

Pretty much. Would be pretty sad if we embarked on building a giant hollow death star around the sun only to realize we've wasted a few thousand years because of some new discovery we find.

the whole point of a dyson sphere is that you can harvest ALL of the HUGE quantity of energy from the sun, powering a massive civilisation for billions of years, and we humans have only been around a few thousand 8D

So, in other words, by the time we have the means of procuring that amount of raw material, a better idea would have been conceived.

not necessarily, the dyson sphere is pretty much the perfect way of harvesting 100% of the energy fro the sun.

[Cribble]

When I read the title I thought you made a post about the release of a new Dyson.

Yeah, I thought they released 1 of those hoover robot things.

Thats a retarded idea though, I hope humans dont try it.

[Grimness]

human solipsism at its best, I guess?

[Apex Vertigo]

It would still be useful in showing off to our extraterrestrial neighbors. We have the best dyson shell, you noobs.

Except it might be quite embarrassing to find they have developed technology that surpasses human knowledge by holding the same amount of energy as the entire output of a star in a hand-held object? That idea might be a bit far-fetched but you see what I mean.


the whole point of a dyson sphere is that you can harvest ALL of the HUGE quantity of energy from the sun, powering a massive civilization for billions of years, and we humans have only been around a few thousand 8D


It is the perfect form as we see it now, but I imagine in a few thousand years the idea of building an incredibly large hollow ball around a star would be a primitive notion. Who are we to say what is the best way to harvest the output of a star when we do not even possess the knowledge of how to approach it, much less obtain the materials needed or even obtain mastery of the energy output of our own planet. It goes on to say we are only a at .7 on the scale, not even Type I yet.

[Apex Vertigo]

human solipsism at its best, I guess?

Thank you for teaching me a new word, I never knew what the term for that idea was but I knew there had to be one.

[LordRolo]

Just in case people have not seen it :

http://www.nada.kth.se/~asa/dysonFAQ.html

a paper looking at the practicality of a dyson sphere

link taken from this quite interesting website :

http://www.merzo.net/

[Death's Chill]

Actually according to dysons original figures that is wrong,

I'm just going off of Wikipedia. :p

Where are you getting your information from?

to build a dyson sphere that can stand the millions and millions (well billions actually) of years to takes for all of the energy in a sun to preform fission, and for the dyson sphere to become a viable source of energy, the sphere would have to be unbelievably thin, talking about a few atoms across made out of super hard material but also a almost perfectly effective conductor that can absorb 100% of the suns rays, also it would have to be father away from the sun than the oort cloud is right now, now that is HUGE, i mean unimaginably HUGE.

Doesn't the oort cloud extend a couple lightyears out from us?

There's no imaginable way I could even begin to think of in making something that large. We're talking about over 11.5 trillion miles out. It would take thousands if not tens of thousands worth of solar systems mass to create something that huge, and the amount of time it would take just to gather the materials and then create it... we're talking millions of years.

right imagine the largest thing is your head, well now imagine it larger, now factor it by 10, right I can promise you its larger than that.

Well, I was thinking of a supercluster. I'm quite sure this isn't quite as large. ;)

resources wise it would exhaust multiple solar systems of metal.

Too many for it to be even remotely viable, even if we could travel instantly to another solar system.

the way dyson actually calculated it to stay a perfect sphere and not collapse in on itself it by the radiation of the sun holding it up like the air in a balloon 8D. which is why it has to be so thin.

Hm, how would the radiation help to combat the fact that the material used to construct this would have to be severe million times stronger than a carbon nanotube? Hot air balloons float because the hot air is trapped inside a balloon, which causes it to rise up as hot air weighs less than cool air. That can't be applied in space. ;)

the whole point of a dyson sphere is that you can harvest ALL of the HUGE quantity of energy from the sun, powering a massive civilisation for billions of years, and we humans have only been around a few thousand 8D

Indeed. If it were possible, it would be truly incredible. What we could do with such vast amounts of energy...

[Death's Chill]

Except it might be quite embarrassing to find they have developed technology that surpasses human knowledge by holding the same amount of energy as the entire output of a star in a hand-held object? That idea might be a bit far-fetched but you see what I mean.



It is the perfect form as we see it now, but I imagine in a few thousand years the idea of building an incredibly large hollow ball around a star would be a primitive notion. Who are we to say what is the best way to harvest the output of a star when we do not even possess the knowledge of how to approach it, much less obtain the materials needed or even obtain mastery of the energy output of our own planet. It goes on to say we are only a at .7 on the scale, not even Type I yet.

Actually I completely agree. It's very likely that our knowledge of the universe is as primitive to a type III, or even type II species, as we look back upon cavemen.

Who knows? It's also possible that some of our concepts are the peak and limit of what can be done in this universe. Maybe there is a way to make a pocket sized yottawatt equivalent battery, but I doubt that.

[LordRolo]

Hm, how would the radiation help to combat the fact that the material used to construct this would have to be severe million times stronger than a carbon nanotube? Hot air balloons float because the hot air is trapped inside a balloon, which causes it to rise up as hot air weighs less than cool air. That can't be applied in space. ;)


the whole point is that it is not meant to be rigid, and it is just a few atoms thick, so solar winds will have quite a large effect on it, like a balloon. but on the other points you are quite right the whole thing is impractical, although not sure about the oort cloud thing..... WIKIPEDIA SAVE ME!

ok maby the oort cloud is a bit far, just 1 light year, but you get my point anyway.

[lemmingsoup]

Actually I completely agree. It's very likely that our knowledge of the universe is as primitive to a type III, or even type II species, as we look back upon cavemen.

Who knows? It's also possible that some of our concepts are the peak and limit of what can be done in this universe. Maybe there is a way to make a pocket sized yottawatt equivalent battery, but I doubt that.

Call me a pessimist but I think that the limitations that are starting to slow our progress as macroscopic creatures trying to understand the universe on a quantum level would prove just as prohibitive to any other life form.

Also, what do the species 'type' classifications mean, where did they come from and what criteria are they based on? I've never come across them before...

[Death's Chill]

Call me a pessimist but I think that the limitations that are starting to slow our progress as macroscopic creatures trying to understand the universe on a quantum level would prove just as prohibitive to any other life form.

Well think of it in a different way. Imagine you went back into time when man thought that the sun revolved around the earth, or that the earth was flat. Everyone was certain of it. They felt that it was impossible to have it any other way. Much like we think about certain theories as they're applied in theoretical physics.

Who knows, we very well might be looking at it the wrong way. Maybe we've missing a crucial element. Maybe we're completely and utterly wrong. It's possible that an advanced civilization would look on such science as ludicrous as we look on the idea of the earth being flat.


Also, what do the species 'type' classifications mean, where did they come from and what criteria are they based on? I've never come across them before...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kardashev_scale

[Death's Chill]

the whole point is that it is not meant to be rigid, and it is just a few atoms thick, so solar winds will have quite a large effect on it, like a balloon. but on the other points you are quite right the whole thing is impractical, although not sure about the oort cloud thing..... WIKIPEDIA SAVE ME!

ok maby the oort cloud is a bit far, just 1 light year, but you get my point anyway.

A few atoms thick think would be invisible to nothing but the most powerful of microscopes. Anything passing through it, even tiny particles of dust or rock, would break it apart.

Also, how would you propose even making something THAT thin?

It's completely impossible imo. :p

[DocGonzo]

/sigh

Ringworld by Larry Niven

wtf do they teach you children nowadays?

[LordRolo]

A few atoms thick think would be invisible to nothing but the most powerful of microscopes. Anything passing through it, even tiny particles of dust or rock, would break it apart.

Also, how would you propose even making something THAT thin?

It's completely impossible imo. :p

I never said it was not, but it was the idea put forwards of how it could work, we do not know what leaps and bounds in technology we will have in the future.

/sigh

Ringworld by Larry Niven

wtf do they teach you children nowadays?

A. ringworld is a ok series of books, and a awful set of adventure games.

B. apparently nothing looking at the guy who did not know what a light year was

[SSguy]

It would still be useful in showing off to our extraterrestrial neighbors. We have the best dyson shell, you noobs.

Yes, if we don't destroy them before they get the chance to feel jealousy.

[Kheiron]

We dont need a dyson sphere anyway. We should look at ways to collect solar power comparable to our energy consumption, so I suggest solar collecting satelittes in orbit and solar panels and wind turbines on the ground.

[Kinsari]

Thanks, you just decimated my dreams of ever becoming an astrologer, i obviously fail terrible at it.

Those high school physics books lied to me, or i wasnt paying attention.

An 09er's skull would be dense enough, that was the joke.

I don't know if you're just joking with this or not but an astrologer is someone who tells horoscopes.

And to build a dyson sphere we'd likely to have to master inter-system travel, as we'd probably need to completely gut the natural resources of hundreds or thousands of solar systems to build this thing.

[Morbis]

Even then the energy return would probably be so low compared to the requirement to haul all the stuff about and into place that we wouldnt get an energy return for millions of years.

[DoveAlexa]

Someone obviously hasn't seen the Dyson sphere episode of Star trek TNG. ;P

[DR.NUMBERS]

Where would we get enough raw material to build such a structure?

[Patrician]

If we built a sphere around the sun, wouldn't it become quite dark on Earth?

[Carl Ragadamn]

What we could do with such vast amounts of energy...

My guess, really cool weapons...Because humanity will always be humanity.

[stalwart]

we'd have to go to another solar system and harvest it for resources to accomplish this, wouldn't we?

or better yet, it would be a gas that would be able to absorb all the energy and transfer that energy to us somehow. we could maybe use the gas giants to accomplish this?

[DR.NUMBERS]

we'd have to go to another solar system and harvest it for resources to accomplish this, wouldn't we?

or better yet, it would be a gas that would be able to absorb all the energy and transfer that energy to us somehow. we could maybe use the gas giants to accomplish this?


Yep. We have absolutely no where near enough material for such an undertaking.

[stalwart]

someone do a calculation to find the volume on a 1 meter thick sphere that surrounded our solar system. then do it for the galaxy

V = (4/3)Pi([R^3]-[r^3])

[The Cougar]

basically it sounds like we are killing a star in order to advance as a species...

thats all we know how to do though, destroy our environment :bang:
How does this "kill" the sun? We're just harvesting the energy, it'll shine like always.

Pretty cool idea though.

[Carl Ragadamn]

How does this "kill" the sun? We're just harvesting the energy, it'll shine like always.

Pretty cool idea though.

But it would only shine inside the sphere.

[Selzi]

I was expecting this thread to be about this (http://www.blog001.net/images/2008/01/18/dyson111.jpg). Boy was I disappointed.

[Solrac]

Indeed. If it were possible, it would be truly incredible. What we could do with such vast amounts of energy...
Kill ourselves faster?
Before trying to obtain the lolwtfultimate source of power, we should focus on not fucking KILLING OURSELVES and everything that surrounds us first. :bang:

[rexxz]

dyson sphere is old.

OLD.

[Ion_StormH]

If we're able to build such a sphere, please let us do it only with enough defence mechanisms + warpthehelloutofhereintothenextgalaxy/universe-engine.

Because if you stay at one place in this universe, you're doomed: http://www.galaxydynamics.org/tflops.html

[Ocoma]

Actually I completely agree. It's very likely that our knowledge of the universe is as primitive to a type III, or even type II species, as we look back upon cavemen.

More like as we look back on dinosaurs. :ohno:

The technology caps between the described stages are so huge we really can't even begin to understand how things would work to fulfill the stage requirements. :sly:

[Agge]

Never heard about that particular sphere, but ofcourse I have heard of the whole civilization status vs the amount of energy we can utalize.

Personaly I find zero-point energy and dark mather alot more intresting then a fucking sphere.

[Jathen]

Wait a second I thought this thread was going to be about vacuum cleaners......

[Zushakon]

Never heard about that particular sphere, but ofcourse I have heard of the whole civilization status vs the amount of energy we can utalize.

Personaly I find zero-point energy and dark mather alot more intresting then a fucking sphere.

dark mather? :rolleyes:

Nah just kidding, I agree with you, altho I think a huge fucking sphere around the sun would be pretty darn awesome :D

[Achromic]

dyson sphere is old.

OLD.

Exactly, a lot of these things started popping up in the 40s, 50s, and 60s. I wouldn't even be surprised if someone thought up long before that.

There's plenty of other megastructures out there. Many people who invented these things were for advancement of humanity so they can live in comfortably.

It sorta reminds me of sleeper ships. They are ships were the population is kept in a cryogenic sleep. As such they are awoken at certain periods of time and one of their goals is as survivalist so in case the human population is wiped out they can repopulate.

Megastructure (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megastructure)

If you check out that link you'll see a whole host of information about space habitats. Just because it's science-fiction to some doesn't mean they will not create something similar.

As for the sphere around the sun that is to capture 100% of the energy so that there is 100% efficiency. A sphere covers the entire space but rings only cover a certain portion and may hinder energy uptake.

[Villa]

I'm sure someone else has already pointed this out, but because I am DIFFERENT, I will say it anyway -

They had a Dyson's Sphere in an episode of Star Trek TNG.
IIRC, they even found Scotty hiding inside a transporter beam or something, somewhere in there.

[Vessol]

1970's concept is a 1970's concept..

[Someone]

Never heard about that particular sphere, but ofcourse I have heard of the whole civilization status vs the amount of energy we can utalize.

Personaly I find zero-point energy and dark mather alot more intresting then a fucking sphere.

Well then you're starting to get into a level 4 civ. At which point we would possibly be capable of becoming gods, as we could create entire universes for ourselves, the whole big bang deal. Just at level 3 we would either harvest of in an other way extract the energy equivilant to the suns/total energy output of one or several galaxies, I think it's at that point you can start looking into new parallel dimension big bangs.

Btw you guys know that we would live on the inside of the sphere right? And we would probably use the actual planets and meteors asteroids whatever the hell we could find in the system to build it. Would be an insanely big and expensive as fucking hell thing to build though. For more on superstructures and the fun that can be had with them I recommend reading Schlock Merceneray starting here http://www.schlockmercenary/d/20000612.html hell you should just read the fucking thing anyway, it's awesome, among the best webcomics ever created.

[Carl Ragadamn]

I'm sure someone else has already pointed this out, but because I am DIFFERENT, I will say it anyway -

They had a Dyson's Sphere in an episode of Star Trek TNG.
IIRC, they even found Scotty hiding inside a transporter beam or something, somewhere in there.

Your nerd is showing. Quick threaten to blow something up.

[Villa]

Your nerd is showing. Quick threaten to blow something up.

Sorry I can't resist Star Trek trivia.
Or natural big and bouncy bewbz.

[Vessol]

basically it sounds like we are killing a star in order to advance as a species...

thats all we know how to do though, destroy our environment :bang:

How is the sun the environment?

[shadowy]

I suggest we invent a way for perfect energy-to-matter transformation and nano-level replicators then let the sphere grow on it's own.

[stalwart]

Wait a second I thought this thread was going to be about vacuum cleaners......

the schwartz is strong with this one.

[Tossball]

This is all very nice, but is this model bag-less?

[Spinewire]

How many plannet would we have to eat up to provide enough materials to do this?

[DocGonzo]

How many plannet would we have to eat up to provide enough materials to do this?

depends on the planets

Ringworld had all the math worked out for the Ring...and even an extrapolation for a sphere...which would take more than our solar system's available materials to make at 1 au

[Gunther TheBlack]

Dyson sphere is just a fancy name for Deathstar!!!

[Marelt]

Dyson sphere is just a fancy name for Deathstar!!!

Is this the first guy to point it out because he thought he was ahead of the game?

YES OF COURSE ITS A DEATHSTAR, THE GOVERNMENT CANT KNOW THOUGH SHHH
:ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja:

[Death's Chill]

Dyson sphere is just a fancy name for Deathstar!!!

Nope. A death star would be about a million times smaller. ;)

[Temet nosce]

Nope. A death star would be about a million times smaller. ;)

And more boring... Remember Discworld and the sequel anyone? I loved how those students hunted down the author and explained that he'd screwed up in describing Discworld since it wouldn't function that way.

Actually though, yeah I knew what a Dyson sphere was before clicking the thread.

[Saturday Saint]

wut? (http://www.apartmenttherapy.com/images/uploads/5-19--dyson.jpg)

[shaystamang]

theres not enough material on earth to accomplish something like that. and only 3 meters would mean someone could punch a hole in it with a large bomb, and kill everyone...

[Death's Chill]

theres not enough material on earth to accomplish something like that. and only 3 meters would mean someone could punch a hole in it with a large bomb, and kill everyone...

It would take multiple septillions in kilograms of raw materal to build it.

What do you mean though, one bomb would create a hole in it, sure; but even a 500 megaton thermonuclear hydrogen bomb would hardly dent it because it would be so fucking large.

[Pcheez]

septillions

Ok, what the fuck is a septillion.

First person to link google or a wiki shall get a hornet up the ass

[chodie4u]

How is the sun the environment?

Ambiance.

[PrimalSign]

How is the sun the environment?

Haha?

[Death's Chill]

Ok, what the fuck is a septillion.

First person to link google or a wiki shall get a hornet up the ass

sigh..

One

Dozen.

Hundred.

Thousand.

Million.

Billion.

Trillion.

Quadrillion.

Quintillion

Sextillion

Septillion

Octillion

Noniliion

Decillion

Undecillion

Duodecillion

tredecillion

quattuordecillion

quindecillion

sexdecillion

septendecillion

octodecillion

novemdecillion

vigintillion

Googol

Centillion

Googolplex


Here, there... happy?

[Helgeran]

basically it sounds like we are killing a star in order to advance as a species...

thats all we know how to do though, destroy our environment :bang:
Boo fuckity hoo. The only reason to be kind to mother nature is because earth is the only living planet we know of and fucking the the eco system is a waste of genes and cool stuff. A sun? Blocking it (in actuality using it to it's best instead of just letting all that tasty radiation fill the void) matters less than snorting a grain of sand from a beach.

[Death's Chill]

Exactly. Unlike the natural resources on earth, the sun is being depleted REGARDLESS of if we build this shell or not; if we do the only difference is that we get to harness that energy instead of letting it waste away into nothing.

[Pcheez]

Exactly. Unlike the natural resources on earth, the sun is being depleted REGARDLESS of if we build this shell or not; if we do the only difference is that we get to harness that energy instead of letting it waste away into nothing.

Kind of like in that terrible movie Sunshine.

Btw, thats a hell of a lot of numbers.

[Morar]

Not to spoil the topic, or anything.. but the whole concept of a Dyson Sphere is a rather poor one, to be frank.

Why move and bind more matter in a construction than the target star holds and can thus transform to energy during its lifespan? It's idiotic at best.
A much more energy efficient approach is to finally get nuclear fusion to work as an energy source. It's not nearly as difficult and yields a better result.

If you used the same amount of matter needed to build the Sphere and threw it in a fusion reactor - or similar matter to energy device that works with heavier atoms - you'd be much better off.. and you wouldn't have a building of astronomical scale to monitor. Just imagine how many janitors that takes.. and God be with you if there's a problem with canalization on the weekend. (Given that it is an inhabited Sphere.)

Nah, trust me.. it's just not a good idea.

[Synthetic]

Yeah had a rare moment of forgetfullness there, a light year is the time it takes light to reach the earth from the sun.

/doh

So much for my retirement plans as an astrology amateur.

Edit : I always thought an AU stood for light year ! Astronomical unit eh ? Learn something new everyday.

Did you not take high school physics? BTW a light year is a measurement of distance not time... it's the distance light travels in 1 year. Hence the year part lol

[Death's Chill]

Not to spoil the topic, or anything.. but the whole concept of a Dyson Sphere is a rather poor one, to be frank.

Why move and bind more matter in a construction than the target star holds and can thus transform to energy during its lifespan? It's idiotic at best.
A much more energy efficient approach is to finally get nuclear fusion to work as an energy source. It's not nearly as difficult and yields a better result.

If you used the same amount of matter needed to build the Sphere and threw it in a fusion reactor - or similar matter to energy device that works with heavier atoms - you'd be much better off.. and you wouldn't have a building of astronomical scale to monitor. Just imagine how many janitors that takes.. and God be with you if there's a problem with canalization on the weekend. (Given that it is an inhabited Sphere.)

Nah, trust me.. it's just not a good idea.

You can only fuse light elements such as hydrogen and helium, after that, iron, it isn't possible. So while yes, nuclear fusion would still be a great step forward for us, it's not perfect.

Also, while a dyson sphere would be unimaginably big, its actual mass would not even remotely exceed that of the sun. It would appear larger, as its radius would extend so far, but it would be entirely hollow.

The sun is not hollow, and to give an example, you could fit in a million earths inside of it if it were. So that's a LOT of fuel in there.

Kind of like in that terrible movie Sunshine.

Btw, thats a hell of a lot of numbers.

That movie was good from an artistic perspective, but horrible from a physical perspective. So many inadequacies and downright impossibilities (such as the ending).

What I thought was most hilarious, was that they were bringing a bomb to the sun, when in fact the sun is nothing more than a huge ever-exploding furnace of nuclear fusion.

They just stole the idea from a decent movie called The Core. A bomb even the size of earth would hardly even dent the sun and I have no idea how they got it into their mind that it would somehow restart the sun. They did not even say what was wrong with it.

[Malishan]

Yes, it would take 1.82 ×10 to the 26th power in kg of raw material to be able to construct it with a thickness of up to 20 cm.

That's a number hard to even comprehend.



Haha... well actually no. A light year is the time light travels in one year inside a vacuum, close to 6 trillion miles.

the time light travels in one year in a vacuum is... SUPRISE! One year. Distance, son, distance! lol.

[Morar]

You can only fuse light elements such as hydrogen and helium, after that, iron, it isn't possible. So while yes, nuclear fusion would still be a great step forward for us, it's not perfect.

Also, while a dyson sphere would be unimaginably big, its actual mass would not even remotely exceed that of the sun. It would appear larger, as its radius would extend so far, but it would be entirely hollow.

The sun is not hollow, and to give an example, you could fit in a million earths inside of it if it were. So that's a LOT of fuel in there.

Yes, I'm well aware of the fact you cannot fuse heavy elements. Hence "...or [a] similar matter to energy device that works with heavier atoms ". Fusion does not have to be the last step in terms of matter to energy transfers for all we know.

I'm not quite familiar with the calculations, but depending on how thick it is, and how big the radius is, the Sphere will have much more mass than the star due to its radius alone, regardless of it being hollow.
Aha.. had a closer look at it now. Yes, of course you could make it extremely thin and use it to collect energy only. That works nicely. Then you have energy to live.. but no place to do so.

What I was thinking of was more along the lines of Ringworld or so.. a shell thick enough to host life forms on the inside. (Given that you can install an atmosphere.. God knows.)

[PainlessDeath]

I asked my professor why there aren't planets the size of suns. Apparently, mass equals energy and a planet that large would become a sun.

So wouldn't a sphere that large "burn" as well?

[Death's Chill]

the time light travels in one year in a vacuum is... SUPRISE! One year. Distance, son, distance! lol.

Hey, I was tired, give me a break. I said the correct figure of MILES after, you're just being mean now. ;)

[Death's Chill]

Yes, I'm well aware of the fact you cannot fuse heavy elements. Hence "...or [a] similar matter to energy device that works with heavier atoms ". Fusion does not have to be the last step in terms of matter to energy transfers for all we know.

I'm not quite familiar with the calculations, but depending on how thick it is, and how big the radius is, the Sphere will have much more mass than the star due to its radius alone, regardless of it being hollow.
Aha.. had a closer look at it now. Yes, of course you could make it extremely thin and use it to collect energy only. That works nicely. Then you have energy to live.. but no place to do so.

What I was thinking of was more along the lines of Ringworld or so.. a shell thick enough to host life forms on the inside. (Given that you can install an atmosphere.. God knows.)

The sphere would extend slightly behind earth's orbit, so we could still live on earth and collect the energy from the sphere year-round. Living on the shell wouldn't be practical imo, but just making it so as to capture the energy would be spectacularly effective.

[Death's Chill]

I asked my professor why there aren't planets the size of suns. Apparently, mass equals energy and a planet that large would become a sun.

So wouldn't a sphere that large "burn" as well?

How would it burn? It would be nothing more than the material we use to construct it with, as well as being hollow. It would collect the energy of the sun, which we would use.

The only issue I see is that, if we cannot actually use all of the energy, and it's just stored up in the shell, eventually it will exceed its capacity and that would be an issue. We'd need a way to shed the excess energy, unless we use it all.

By the time we're able to construct something like that, the odds are high that we will indeed need all of it.

[Griz]

If this topic is at all interesting to anyone, you might want to read Ringworld by Larry Niven. Even though it's about a ring around a sun rather than an entire sphere, the concept is very similar and the story is very interesting. He approaches it from a very technical (yet entertaining) perspective. And of course there's a science fiction story attached to it. :)

[alfaroverall]

basically it sounds like we are killing a star in order to advance as a species...

thats all we know how to do though, destroy our environment :bang:
Pretty much this :(

On-topic: 1.8*10^26 kg of material is the mass of over 20 Earths...so yeah, where would we get this raw material? The fucking asteroid belt?

[Grimness]

like I said, human solipsism ftl.

[Spinewire]

The sphere would extend slightly behind earth's orbit, so we could still live on earth and collect the energy from the sphere year-round. Living on the shell wouldn't be practical imo, but just making it so as to capture the energy would be spectacularly effective.
Wait you want to add that much mass to our solar system and not totaly fuck everything up?

How would this thing react to the constant bombardment of asteroids?

[synaptyc]

Example of a Dyson Sphere
http://www.gosale.com/product_images/4942000/4942572-dyson-dc24-ball-all-floors.jpg

[Death's Chill]

Pretty much this :(

On-topic: 1.8*10^26 kg of material is the mass of over 20 Earths...so yeah, where would we get this raw material? The fucking asteroid belt?

We'd have to harvest other planets in the solar system too, of course. Moons as well, and if it came to it, asteroids; yes.

Wait you want to add that much mass to our solar system and not totaly fuck everything up?

How would this thing react to the constant bombardment of asteroids?

It wouldn't add mass to the solar system, as everything we use to construct it would come from the solar system.

Though I'm not sure what we'd do about asteroids and comets. That's actually a killer as far as I can think, unless we could develop some sort of metallic coating that was able to withstand such impacts; which I doubt. Though I suppose anything is possible in the distant future.

[Sandrix]

This explains all that "dark matter" business, aliums have already built so many dyson spheres we can't see most of the mass in the universe. :ninja: