How does america see the immigrants

[rockyraccoon]

another kosovo is going to be pulled off in the southwest.

edit: not the genocide, the seperation.

[Haeso]

and i guess nobody told you how america had advance knowledge of pearl harbor from its own and other intelligence agencies.

So that means what, we thought an attack might be possible was unlikely enough that we shouldn't put the base on full alert or evacuate etc, or that we simply had a breakdown in communication.

In the case of the bombing, the vast majority of the citizens and government knew what was coming, and still refused to yield.

[[LoD] EE]

I'm not gonna argue with you guys, juat saying you are not the worst countries out there. As for this when they officially reported that the majority of the heroin buisness was comming from african people it was a BIG OLE DRAMA scene in the media about the goverment being racist and shit for pointing it out, but if htere would have been swedes in that report none had cared, in the states you goverment does not close their eyes for this shit they do what they can or atleast goes out with it puplic and if the swedes would do that, then we would see oblivion, and be said to be the new nazi germany, like wtf man can't i wouch or even say anything in my defense anymore without being called a racist?

/talking out the bottle

Oh, our government and our media doesn't say shit about this. They all side with the illegals because its the PC thing to do. It is getting some airtime though.

John & Ken on KNBC's News Conference with Conan Nolan pt 1"] (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fuXCGg-bWWQ)

John & Ken on KNBC's News Conference with Conan Nolan pt 2 (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=FzIS-cXkcIE&feature=related)

Day without an illegal on KCAL 9 News (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=o2rRSykJvgY&feature=related)



December 27, 2008 - 7:21 p.m.

Corrupt Mexican military and law enforcement units pose a criminal and national security threat to our country and its citizens. Since 1996, there have been more than 278 confirmed incursions by Mexican military units and police officers into the United States. More than 109 of the incursions took place in the last five years alone. These violations of U.S. territorial sovereignty go largely unpunished and are routinely handled as administrative complaints between the U.S. and Mexican governments.

While some Mexican government incursions are accidental or result when police pursue suspects across the U.S. border, others are far more troubling. Official U.S. Border Patrol reports - obtained by Judicial Watch under the provisions of the Freedom of Information Act - show that in some instances, Mexican police and military officials are closely involved in drug trafficking. Memos from the U.S. Border Patrol have revealed that Mexican drug cartels are crossing increasingly farther into the United States in order to distance themselves from rival drug cartels. For years, drug traffickers have used Mexican military personnel to aid their operations by providing security for the drug shipment and distracting U.S. law enforcement officers by ruse and demonstration tactics along the border. As drug activity moves farther north into the United States, illegal military incursions increase as a result.

Mexican incursion reports describe incidents involving shots fired on both sides of the border, unmarked helicopters invading U.S. airspace, and drug smuggling. In 2005, Mexican soldiers crossed the border along the Rio Grande Valley. When a Border Patrol Agent went by boat to examine the scene, "the [Border Patrol] Agent on board advised via radio that several Mexican soldiers were pointing their rifles in his direction. The Agent decided for his safety and the safety of the crew to turn back, but advised that the soldiers were still aiming at them." Again in 2005, Border Patrol agents stationed in Tucson "heard four distinct gunshots coming from Mexico. The gunshots were fired when the agents were approximately 10 feet away." On April 23, 2007, in Arizona, "Border Patrol Agents . reported a Mexican military incursion ... in Humvees carrying long arms . The agents continued to back away from the [soldiers] when they heard [one] soldier chamber a round into his rifle. The agents observed . that the military personnel had fanned out in a tactical formation on both sides of the U.S.-Mexico International Boundary."

Reports also show the relation between Mexican government personnel and drug trafficking. In 2003, Border Patrol agents sighted a Mexican military boat that was found to be transporting almost 3,000 pounds of marijuana. In July 2007, six men dressed in tan-colored military clothing were observed near Patagonia, Ariz. They were armed with automatic rifles and appeared to be carrying narcotics on their backs. In August 2007, a Ford F-150 passed into Calexico, Calif. When U.S. Border Patrol agents stopped the vehicle, the driver, a Mexican federal agent, was armed with a semi-automatic AR-15 rifle and a semi-automatic pistol. When U.S. agents performed a vehicle search, they found "guns, ammunition, narcotics, night vision equipment, cell phones, a walkie-talkie and a ski mask."

Some drug traffickers appear to have hired Mexican military to conduct home invasions within the United States. Earlier this year, six men crossed the border into Arizona. They were dressed in Mexican Army uniforms and body armor, and carried AR-15 assault rifles.

The men were thought to be members of the Mexican Army, and to have had military training.

The men conducted a home invasion and fired more than 100 rounds of ammunition, killing one person.

According to police reports, the men were hired by Mexican drug traffickers.

Three of the men were captured, and when questioned one of them said that the group had been fully prepared to ambush the police but ran out of ammunition.

The rampant corruption in Mexican military and law enforcement is not simply a "Mexican problem."

It is having a corrosive and often dangerous effect on the U.S. side of the border.

With increasing sophistication in communications and smuggling techniques, combined with the deadliest weaponry, conventional U.S. law enforcement is simply no match for the criminal racketeers who engage in drug and human smuggling.

One wonders what level of crisis or tragedy will force Homeland Security, Justice and Defense Department officials to adequately address the security and law enforcement requirements of our southern border.

It is now quite easy to imagine a days-long pitched battle between Mexican Army elements and a detachment of the U.S. Border Patrol's "BORTAC" - the Border Patrol Tactical Unit.

The only questions remaining are: When will it happen? And, how will the United States government finally respond to this long-neglected national vulnerability?

Chris Farrel is director of investigations for Judicial Watch, a nonprofit that investigates and prosecutes government corruption.

[Gurrak]

EE;2233497']Oh, our government and our media doesn't say shit about this. They all side with the illegals because its the PC thing to do. It is getting some airtime though.

John & Ken on KNBC's News Conference with Conan Nolan pt 1"] (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fuXCGg-bWWQ)

John & Ken on KNBC's News Conference with Conan Nolan pt 2 (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=FzIS-cXkcIE&feature=related)

Day without an illegal on KCAL 9 News (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=o2rRSykJvgY&feature=related)



December 27, 2008 - 7:21 p.m.

Corrupt Mexican military and law enforcement units pose a criminal and national security threat to our country and its citizens. Since 1996, there have been more than 278 confirmed incursions by Mexican military units and police officers into the United States. More than 109 of the incursions took place in the last five years alone. These violations of U.S. territorial sovereignty go largely unpunished and are routinely handled as administrative complaints between the U.S. and Mexican governments.

While some Mexican government incursions are accidental or result when police pursue suspects across the U.S. border, others are far more troubling. Official U.S. Border Patrol reports - obtained by Judicial Watch under the provisions of the Freedom of Information Act - show that in some instances, Mexican police and military officials are closely involved in drug trafficking. Memos from the U.S. Border Patrol have revealed that Mexican drug cartels are crossing increasingly farther into the United States in order to distance themselves from rival drug cartels. For years, drug traffickers have used Mexican military personnel to aid their operations by providing security for the drug shipment and distracting U.S. law enforcement officers by ruse and demonstration tactics along the border. As drug activity moves farther north into the United States, illegal military incursions increase as a result.

Mexican incursion reports describe incidents involving shots fired on both sides of the border, unmarked helicopters invading U.S. airspace, and drug smuggling. In 2005, Mexican soldiers crossed the border along the Rio Grande Valley. When a Border Patrol Agent went by boat to examine the scene, "the [Border Patrol] Agent on board advised via radio that several Mexican soldiers were pointing their rifles in his direction. The Agent decided for his safety and the safety of the crew to turn back, but advised that the soldiers were still aiming at them." Again in 2005, Border Patrol agents stationed in Tucson "heard four distinct gunshots coming from Mexico. The gunshots were fired when the agents were approximately 10 feet away." On April 23, 2007, in Arizona, "Border Patrol Agents . reported a Mexican military incursion ... in Humvees carrying long arms . The agents continued to back away from the [soldiers] when they heard [one] soldier chamber a round into his rifle. The agents observed . that the military personnel had fanned out in a tactical formation on both sides of the U.S.-Mexico International Boundary."

Reports also show the relation between Mexican government personnel and drug trafficking. In 2003, Border Patrol agents sighted a Mexican military boat that was found to be transporting almost 3,000 pounds of marijuana. In July 2007, six men dressed in tan-colored military clothing were observed near Patagonia, Ariz. They were armed with automatic rifles and appeared to be carrying narcotics on their backs. In August 2007, a Ford F-150 passed into Calexico, Calif. When U.S. Border Patrol agents stopped the vehicle, the driver, a Mexican federal agent, was armed with a semi-automatic AR-15 rifle and a semi-automatic pistol. When U.S. agents performed a vehicle search, they found "guns, ammunition, narcotics, night vision equipment, cell phones, a walkie-talkie and a ski mask."

Some drug traffickers appear to have hired Mexican military to conduct home invasions within the United States. Earlier this year, six men crossed the border into Arizona. They were dressed in Mexican Army uniforms and body armor, and carried AR-15 assault rifles.

The men were thought to be members of the Mexican Army, and to have had military training.

The men conducted a home invasion and fired more than 100 rounds of ammunition, killing one person.

According to police reports, the men were hired by Mexican drug traffickers.

Three of the men were captured, and when questioned one of them said that the group had been fully prepared to ambush the police but ran out of ammunition.

The rampant corruption in Mexican military and law enforcement is not simply a "Mexican problem."

It is having a corrosive and often dangerous effect on the U.S. side of the border.

With increasing sophistication in communications and smuggling techniques, combined with the deadliest weaponry, conventional U.S. law enforcement is simply no match for the criminal racketeers who engage in drug and human smuggling.

One wonders what level of crisis or tragedy will force Homeland Security, Justice and Defense Department officials to adequately address the security and law enforcement requirements of our southern border.

It is now quite easy to imagine a days-long pitched battle between Mexican Army elements and a detachment of the U.S. Border Patrol's "BORTAC" - the Border Patrol Tactical Unit.

The only questions remaining are: When will it happen? And, how will the United States government finally respond to this long-neglected national vulnerability?

Chris Farrel is director of investigations for Judicial Watch, a nonprofit that investigates and prosecutes government corruption.

damn long quote, Live with it!

Then I'm really glad we are on he same page mate, thought it was way patriotic and only americans are allowed politics in the states but that proves me quite wrong, guess we euroes have been getting the same trashtalk situations about amricans as you get from us then aye :P

but! there is always a but! the illegal immigrants of our nation gets legit after some applies not hard for them, and if they get it they can bring everyone that they can prove they are related with without going trough the same paperworks :S dunno how it is in the states but fill free to inform me, I'm waaaaay intrested in these thingsl regards

[Ziegler]

and i guess nobody told you how america had advance knowledge of pearl harbor from its own and other intelligence agencies.

and we paid the price for ignoring it.......we charge more interest than the japanese though.

[Vessol]

I love the smell of xenophobia in the morning. Smells like..victory.

[Bamboopanda]

Everyone that lives in the United states had an immigrant in their bloodline at one point or another (save American Indians) so I think that all immigrants should be legal. I feel that any man woman or child has the right to live in any country they so choose on this earth. Man made laws should not restrict them from doing so. People will always follow where opportunity leads, laws or not.

There are only two things wrong with illegals.

One - They (illegals) as a group tend to ignore/refuse to adapt to the host nations culture and cling to the old style culture. This causes a LOT of problems that are hard to counter due to the general ignorance on both sides of the divide.
We do not need a culture war, as such they need to assimilate into the host culture peacefully and willingly, this exposes the host nation to the new culture and removes the assumptions present when exposure is limited. Illegals tend to refuse to do such, not learning the language and pushing themselves into conclaves based on nation/race rather than dispersing and becoming multi-cultural and introducing both cultures to each other in a civil and decent way with few irresolvable issues. The more you wall yourself off from others, the more problems you create for yourself and your children and the culture clash that always follows.

Two - Illegals allow an already running system of importation to allow in criminal elements who are only interested in furthering personal gains rather than bettering themselves. I personally have nothing against a former criminal who has served time and is looking to make a better life, but they need to be kept away from any area where they will feel it is better to revert rather than grow and continue becoming a productive member of society, but I do have problems with criminal elements from an culture being introduced into an area where people are already feeling disillusioned and distant from the host country/culture and general poverty.
We need to treat dangerous active illegal immigrant criminals as enemy combatants and eliminate them from the population. It is entirely within our means to treat these particular people as spies and saboteurs. Allowing that subset to grow and thrive enhances problems already present in the general immigrant (legal or otherwise) community and compounds assimilation and peaceful resolution. If the host nation sees the specific immigrant population as criminals because of its willingness to hide/support them then bigger problems are coming for both sides. Also a general atmosphere of crime slows/stops cultural growth and dispersal because most crime with be against those of the same culture and that is a server drag on both emotion and hope.

As far as legal immigrants, I have no problem with them at all and welcome anyone who is looking to better themselves. Also I feel that our immigration policies in the U.S. are archaic and need to be revised so we are more accepting and willing to pull in anyone willing to better themselves and those around them. Most Illegals I have met are better Americans than a great deal of Americans I have been around, as such I feel as a group they bring much to us and our own culture. But we need to eliminate problems before they grow and sentiment becomes more violent and racist than is already present.

[Carl Ragadamn]

I love the smell of xenophobia in the morning. Smells like..victory.

Um xenophobia clearly smells like fresh washed linen, while victory smells like charred corpses of civilians. You may want to get your olfactory senses checked, you may have had a stroke.

[Haeso]

Um xenophobia clearly smells like fresh washed linen, while victory smells like charred corpses of civilians. You may want to get your olfactory senses checked, you may have had a stroke.

I see what you did there.

[[LoD] EE]

damn long quote, Live with it!

Then I'm really glad we are on he same page mate, thought it was way patriotic and only americans are allowed politics in the states but that proves me quite wrong, guess we euroes have been getting the same trashtalk situations about amricans as you get from us then aye :P

but! there is always a but! the illegal immigrants of our nation gets legit after some applies not hard for them, and if they get it they can bring everyone that they can prove they are related with without going trough the same paperworks :S dunno how it is in the states but fill free to inform me, I'm waaaaay intrested in these thingsl regards

They are allowed to do the same thing its just a little harder. When you are accepted, you can then try to bring in family members but they must have a background check done etc.

Its easier here though in the way of, if you rush over and have a child, you pretty much get to stay as well, which I think is bullshit. I think anchor baby and parents should all be deported.

[Bamboopanda]

How's that denial? I didn't deny anything about my country's past. I'm well aware of the blood that was shed over here as I live in an area where a lot of conflict took place, not to mention right near the Mason Dixon Line. I was just saying that most people are absolute hypocrites when it comes to that argument because their country's past is no better. Conquest has been going on for thousands of years and people are quick to forget that America has only existed for a small fraction of that time.
It's not that they are not aware of it. They are just pissed that we did it better than them and turned out even better than them in pretty much every way. And then we turned around and did it to them and just for kicks rebuilt the continent for shits and giggles rather than raping em like they did the places they moved into. All in all they are jealous and pissed that we have proven to be better in every way when we are not being lazy.

Yea our healthcare sucks, but that is because we spend money on both their defense and ours while they just play starving artist while we scare the bad guys away when it suits us. Anything else you point at… well pretty much everyone has those problems so its moot.

/Yea, a bit over exaggerated but still mostly true. :)
//Americans, kicking ass and forgetting your names since 1775.
///Poke Poke old Euros.

[Silverhandorder]

I am going to end this here.

I got to page 4 and realized people arguing for making illegal immigration legal have no fucking idea what they are talking about.

First to put all these claims that it is hard to get here to rest. American immigration policy lets in as many people as are needed for steady growth. There are many many checks on your background, interviews and all sorts of things that rule out most if not all people with bad past.

Even with this this it is not very hard to get in. My family came here first. After 8 years we have welcomes my mothers two sisters with their families, my dad's cousin's family our friends from across the street and several other people who ended up going back. Our friends had to wait 8 years but eventually they got here.

Second the paying no taxes goes even deeper. If they were to be made legal citizens they would actually qualify for more benefits while still not being required to pay taxes. Idiots just can't comprehend it.

I am a Capitalist and I am against keeping illegals here. Cost benefit analysis shows that they cost far more then they bring in. Plus the only thing that lets them compete with American citizens is because government subsidizes them. So citizens pay taxes so that illegals can live in a room with 10 other people and get free health care when they hurt them selves. Of course they can afford to work for 5$ an hour. This is not taking into account the fact that they broke the law in the first place.

In the end what really troubles me is all these arguments about the past. It is one thing to invoke the constitution and the undying principles of our founding fathers. It is totally different thing to claim higher moral ground from things no one today agrees with and that are not in any way bound to us through tradition. This is no to say he fact that illegal immigration was looked down upon by our ancestors.

[Malhavok]

EE;2233694']They are allowed to do the same thing its just a little harder. When you are accepted, you can then try to bring in family members but they must have a background check done etc.

Its easier here though in the way of, if you rush over and have a child, you pretty much get to stay as well, which I think is bullshit. I think anchor baby and parents should all be deported.

The baby is a citizen... I'm not really up for deporting infant citizens because their parents broke a law that is so widely flaunted as sneaking across the border. Nor would I be down with throwing them to social services... they'd almost assuredly be better off with their parents and it costs far less to the tax payer.

And Silver, what is your nationality. Immigration is run on a quota system so if you're coming from Mexico, India, or some other country with wide spread immigration to the States it can be a very long wait - unless you're coming in on an H2B or similar type deal. Coming in from most countries is fairly easy as there isn't such a discrepancy between quota and the pool of people trying to immigrate. Again, this isn't about stabilizing population growth it's about maintaining a specific demographic.

[Silverhandorder]

The baby is a citizen... I'm not really up for deporting infant citizens because their parents broke a law that is so widely flaunted as sneaking across the border. Nor would I be down with throwing them to social services... they'd almost assuredly be better off with their parents and it costs far less to the tax payer.

End birthright citizenship. Think of it this way, when America turns out to be like Mexico because of the brown wave a lot more babies will suffer.

edit: Slovenian. Well whats so wrong with a quota system? I guess it can be changed to just absolutely random one.

[[LoD] EE]

The baby is a citizen... I'm not really up for deporting infant citizens because their parents broke a law that is so widely flaunted as sneaking across the border. Nor would I be down with throwing them to social services... they'd almost assuredly be better off with their parents and it costs far less to the tax payer.

I dont think a baby born here is a citizen, I think the law meant, a child born to a citizen gets the rights, not just a child born on the land and on the tax payers dime via a criminal.

[Ziegler]

A child born here is a citizen. Their parents are not and should be deported or killed (my preference).....the parents have to make the decision to take their child with them or abandon them.

It is just that simple.

[Bamboopanda]

Let me tell you how WW2 went.. America has never won any war...

Strange, when I look at almost all the battles that where actually won against the Germans. I see either overwhelming American aid that allowed a country or group of countries to engage them, or Americans in the front.

I am sorry we didn't jump for joy at the chance to get into your little Euro pissing match #2 when it kicked off, especially after seeing what happened with pissing match #1. Maybe if you had balls to begin with you could have actually won long before a country about the size of Texas rofl stomped your asses, much less long before we began sending over supplies of any kind.

China has an excuse, they were fucked from the get-go thanks to you and where served up on a platter to the Japs. Euro's have no excuse. You got stomped and completely butchered by a country you had near complete control over just a few years before. Your only success is that you even survived long enough for us to enter the war. W.O our support, your air force would have died yeas before the Germans exhausted themselves. And even WITH our support you had NOTHING left when they quit the offensive, you claim victory when it was blind luck the Germans thought you where not defeated.

Russia did a lot of ground work, no doubt. But they were defeated and had NO CHANCE without U.S. and allied aid. Our aid managed to let them survive long enough for the Germans to lose a bit of steam, and then come back later with massive force made from American supplies. Even ignoring the fact that they would not have been able to feed their army half the winter so would have starved right where they stood, our material supply allowed them to zerg. No American steel or food = no Kurst. Stalingrad would have been won with or without American aid, but the rest of the country would have been lost by the time it was done with. Yea, they lost a fuck load of people, sorry, happens when you zerg. By that time so had the country that ass stomped em while fighting on dozen of battlefields across the continent.

But America changed overnight from an backwoods hillbilly power into the dominate superpower on which the entire war hinged and managed to push back and allow defeat when the combined armies of the world couldn't fend off three damned countries. Those three where also in positions of weakness at the start of the war by the way, and should have been easily defeated if you had not been asleep at the wheel.

Germany by all rights should have been defeated before we ever thought of joining up and never given rise to the slugfest that came after your first debacle. '41 on should have been nothing but the Americans fighting the Japs.

[Haeso]

The baby is a citizen... I'm not really up for deporting infant citizens because their parents broke a law that is so widely flaunted as sneaking across the border. Nor would I be down with throwing them to social services... they'd almost assuredly be better off with their parents and it costs far less to the tax payer.

And Silver, what is your nationality. Immigration is run on a quota system so if you're coming from Mexico, India, or some other country with wide spread immigration to the States it can be a very long wait - unless you're coming in on an H2B or similar type deal. Coming in from most countries is fairly easy as there isn't such a discrepancy between quota and the pool of people trying to immigrate. Again, this isn't about stabilizing population growth it's about maintaining a specific demographic.

So uh, if enough people ignore the law, we should just totally ignore it? Your logic sir, infallible.

[Gaal]

Hmm,you are desperate aren't you Pablo,now i am a troll. You sound more pathetic with each post. Have you got a pair of balls stuck in your month or did the Iranian thing slow you down.:ohno:

Who the fuck is Pablo?

[Malhavok]

So uh, if enough people ignore the law, we should just totally ignore it? Your logic sir, infallible.

Not necessarily, depends on the law and the circumstances. What you should absolutely do is take a look at why the law is so far removed from reality that it is the norm to break it rather than follow it. In many cases it's a law such as speeding or jay-walking which jursidictions don't really give a flying fuck about but keep on the books because they do care about the revenue stream and reckless drivers. The point of those laws isn't that people actually follow them all the time but that they can be used selectively at the discretion of LEOs to curb troublesome behavior. Eg, no one cares if you walk across a residential street but a busy city thoroughfare its dangerous and disruptive. No one cares about going 80 mph on the freeway with a posted limit 70 so long as you are going with the flow of traffic. Other laws, like laws against murder or rape aren't selectively applied. I'd argue that immigration should fall into that category. The immigration laws should either be enforced or if that is impossible they should be changed such that they are enforceable.

Having a defacto policy of open immigration for anyone willing to take the path of least resistance (illegally running the border) is incredibly undesirable. Perhaps the most important aspect of border control is keeping out organized crime, drugs, etc. With millions illegally crossing the border every year it's impossible to do this as you are hunting for needles in the haystack. The path of least resistance should be through legal channels.... I'm not sure how you could do this with our current immigration policy which is one of the reasons I support a much more open stance on immigration. The other is that I believe in free movement of labor.

[Warhawk]

Come on over/in!

Just become a citizen, pay the taxes, and enjoy the freedoms.

Dont come and be a leech.

[TheFlameDeluge]

People going to america looking for opportunities and a better condition for his family or people draining my tax money and causing lots of crimes?

sry about my english

well i mean if they don't cause crime and if they do jobs that we don't want, they can stay and eventually become citizens, w/e

Well I think that old@ss program where we brought in immigrants to do work for us, paid them money, and then asked them to leave (or i think we allowed some of them to stay) was a good idea. Damn i forgot what era that happened in ,i think it was a JFK thing, maybe

[[LoD] EE]

The other is that I believe in free movement of labor.

If you allow free movement of cheap labor, you know what happens? Employers stop hiring Americans and hire cheaper 'guests' who send their money out of the country. It would lower wages more than they already have.

Now you have Americans not working and not buying, the economy crashes.

You have 'guests' sending their money out of the country, not spending, not buying and the economy crashes.

You have 'guests' getting free medical, having their children on the non working Americans dime, using much needed tax money someplace else and raising medical costs of those who have jobs or insurance ( as they need to pass the cost onto us ).

Free movement of labor, open borders and allowing illegal immigrants to stay is a no win situation, any way you look at it.

Remember, its not that Americans wont do the job, they wont do the job for pennies a hour like an Illegal will. We also wont live 10 to a house to make ends meet like they will, which is a major burden on a cities infrastructure and tax base for schools. Tax money for schooling comes from property taxes. If you have 10 people lving in one home instead of 3 homes, you are losing out on taxes for two homes, the Citizens eat the cost, not the illegals.

[sottlesucker]

EE;2234736']If you allow free movement of cheap labor, you know what happens? Employers stop hiring Americans and hire cheaper 'guests' who send their money out of the country. It would lower wages more than they already have.

Now you have Americans not working and not buying, the economy crashes.

You have 'guests' sending their money out of the country, not spending, not buying and the economy crashes.

You have 'guests' getting free medical, having their children on the non working Americans dime, using much needed tax money someplace else and raising medical costs of those who have jobs or insurance ( as they need to pass the cost onto us ).

Free movement of labor, open borders and allowing illegal immigrants to stay is a no win situation, any way you look at it.

Remember, its not that Americans wont do the job, they wont do the job for pennies a hour like an Illegal will. We also wont live 10 to a house to make ends meet like they will, which is a major burden on a cities infrastructure and tax base for schools. Tax money for schooling comes from property taxes. If you have 10 people lving in one home instead of 3 homes, you are losing out on taxes for two homes, the Citizens eat the cost, not the illegals.


Ok, I totally get what your saying. And you do make some good points. It sounds like you are trying to be a complete American ethno-centric. Which in current economic times is understandable anot not necessarily a bad thing. Looking out for American interests is key to us staying afloat.

I realize I am not taking the direct point of your statement. I apologize for that. I just looked at it and it made me think.

But I almost think that we look at ourselves too much in this situation and it may be hurting us. If our government studied the economic situations of other countries these "guests" as you say come from, then maybe it could help us in the longrun. And I by NO means mean aid to any other countries. But maybe if their economic situation is studied more, we can use the illegal immigrants to our advantage. I realize we do study economic situations of other countries quite often. But it is really not often enough that their economies are not linked to our immigration problem. And in the long-run it may help us more.

[ExiliuM]

With its eyes

[[LoD] EE]

Ok, I totally get what your saying. And you do make some good points. It sounds like you are trying to be a complete American ethno-centric. Which in current economic times is understandable anot not necessarily a bad thing. Looking out for American interests is key to us staying afloat.

I realize I am not taking the direct point of your statement. I apologize for that. I just looked at it and it made me think.

But I almost think that we look at ourselves too much in this situation and it may be hurting us. If our government studied the economic situations of other countries these "guests" as you say come from, then maybe it could help us in the longrun. And I by NO means mean aid to any other countries. But maybe if their economic situation is studied more, we can use the illegal immigrants to our advantage. I realize we do study economic situations of other countries quite often. But it is really not often enough that their economies are not linked to our immigration problem. And in the long-run it may help us more.

We must look out for ourselves because if we dont, who will look out for us? The USA cant be like all the other countries, asking for hand outs because we can take care of our own shit.

Lets take Construction, specifically Dry Wall and Suspended Ceilings as an example of the Illegals impact on those trades.

Drywall used to pay $10-$15 a hour, usually to start-1st year, from what I have been told, 10 years ago. Now, you would be lucky to get hired on at $8 a hour and make $10 after a year.

Suspended Ceilings aka T-Bar (http://www.shafter.com/images/pages/N175/Ceiling%20TBar%20Prep.jpg) which was my trade, started out at $8 a hour, tops out at about $23 a hour. That is the same that it topped out at 20ish years ago. I was making $13 a hour after 2 1/2 years in a trade that is far from easy ( but not the hardest ). The company I worked for had major problems getting jobs because of other owners using illegals to do the job.

Needless to say, I was laid off, as were a lot of people. You cant run a successful business when you pay your employees $23 each and can hire 3 illegals to do the same job. So, you either drop the pay of your current employees, which aint going to fly, hire illegals yourself or go out of business. My boss decided to go out of business as he was in his 60's anyways.

Sorry, I would go into more depth but I dont have the most time right now, so I did this quick, hopefully you understand where I am going with the comment.

[Lord Belphegor]

I don't live in the US or have any knowledge on their immigration, but why the hell do people go there as illegal immigrants?

Is it really that hard to get in as a legal immigrant?

And imo US has the right to deport illegal immigrants.
Though I really don't know why they would even go to the US, it's not like their welfare/living conditions are that great..

Yes, it is hard to legally migrate to US. Unless you have spare thousands of dollars or some bitch willing to marry you, you are either going to wait a decade or so or more likely never get here legally.

Usually those who want to immigrate here do not have that kind of finances to pay their to here. That's probably why they want to migrate here, ever though of that?

[Scully]

Seeing as the "americans" stole the country from the Indians, I'd assume they'd be ok with immigrants.

[[LoD] EE]

Seeing as the "americans" stole the country from the Indians, I'd assume they'd be ok with immigrants.

Lots of nations sit on conquered land. It was far from stolen.

[Ziegler]

Seeing as the "americans" stole the country from the Indians, I'd assume they'd be ok with immigrants.

You mean as the spaniards, english, portugese, and french. 1492....1776....well, that's almost 300 years of you guys raping these two continents.

[zie]

Illegal immigrants are the best kind of immigrants, since they dont pay taxes they can mow my lawn and clean my house for cheaper.

[Scully]

You mean as the spaniards, english, portugese, and french. 1492....1776....well, that's almost 300 years of you guys raping these two continents.

And who are the Americans descendants from?

[UPoopedUPants]

People going to america looking for opportunities and a better condition for his family or people draining my tax money and causing lots of crimes?

sry about my english

i don't generalize groups of people...

the problem is our system needs to adapt to the current times
i think immigrants are the problem for our system and more so they point out a flaw in the system

[Ziegler]

And who are the Americans descendants from?

same as the brazilians, mexicans, cubans, and yes..even canadians. Yet somehow, in your world...americans managed to rape pillage and plunder not only america, but all of both north and south america. ;) Thanks for the hate....it's what keeps us going.

[Scully]

same as the brazilians, mexicans, cubans, and yes..even canadians. Yet somehow, in your world...americans managed to rape pillage and plunder not only america, but all of both north and south america. ;) Thanks for the hate....it's what keeps us going.

Europeans were the once who killed the indians. And these Europeans became known as the first Americans. And I'm sure you wish you could make me hate you, but I don't care enough.

[sheek80]

Everyone that lives in the United states had an immigrant in their bloodline at one point or another (save American Indians) so I think that all immigrants should be legal. I feel that any man woman or child has the right to live in any country they so choose on this earth. Man made laws should not restrict them from doing so. People will always follow where opportunity leads, laws or not.

So you're saying that loads upon loads of illegal immigrants should be able to pour into America... steal our jobs where jobs are already hard to find, ruin our economy and further more contribute to our already declining stocks? Sounds like massive masochism to me.

[Scully]

So you're saying that loads upon loads of illegal immigrants should be able to pour into America... steal our jobs where jobs are already hard to find, ruin our economy and further more contribute to our already declining stocks? Sounds like massive masochism to me.

Like you stole the country first.

[Ziegler]

Like you stole the country first.

We only stole the thirteen colonies from jolly ole england...we bought most of the rest from the french and stole part from mexico...though they are taking that back slowly but surely.

Yeah...do I really need to tell you that americans dont care what you think about us?

[Scully]

We only stole the thirteen colonies from jolly ole england...we bought most of the rest from the french and stole part from mexico...though they are taking that back slowly but surely.

Yeah...do I really need to tell you that americans dont care what you think about us?

They didn't steal anything from the Europeans seeing as they were Europeans themselves.

[Ziegler]

They didn't steal anything from the Europeans seeing as they were Europeans themselves.

so americans didnt actually have anything to do with it at all...glad we reached that conclusion.

[[LoD] EE]

so americans didnt actually have anything to do with it at all...glad we reached that conclusion.

Scully has no idea what he is talking about. Hes a horrible troll with poor skills.

[Silverhandorder]

So the new pro illegal immigration people in this thread care to address my post on page 18?

[WhiteF1ame]

American Indians are immigrants to, they crossed the ice strait from asia to alaska thousands of years ago. European (white) skulls have been found in North America 13,000 years old, thousands of years older than the oldest found Amerindian skulls. Many of the illegal immigrants HATE and DESPISE white Americans. They believe the southwestern portion of the USA is part of their imaginary civilization called Aztlan and are hellbent on reconquering it through their primitive birth rates.
13000 year old European skull:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/does-skull-prove-that-the-first-americans-came-from-europe-609699.html

If white americans were wiped out chances were it was due to tribal warfare with the population that still existed up until Europeans returned in 1492. If anything the wiping out of Amerindians was karma. Its idiotic to grant an entire group of people victim status, there are no victims. Native americans have been fighting eachother since they arrived here from asia.

[Desperado[1G]]

Not to mention they steal our money in those bullshit casinos

[verlox2]

American Indians are immigrants to, they crossed the ice strait from asia to alaska thousands of years ago. European (white) skulls have been found in North America 13,000 years old, thousands of years older than the oldest found Amerindian skulls. Many of the illegal immigrants HATE and DESPISE white Americans. They believe the southwestern portion of the USA is part of their imaginary civilization called Aztlan and are hellbent on reconquering it through their primitive birth rates.
13000 year old European skull:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/does-skull-prove-that-the-first-americans-came-from-europe-609699.html

If white americans were wiped out chances were it was due to tribal warfare with the population that still existed up until Europeans returned in 1492. If anything the wiping out of Amerindians was karma. Its idiotic to grant an entire group of people victim status, there are no victims. Native americans have been fighting eachother since they arrived here from asia.

Finally someone who gets it.

[UPoopedUPants]

So the new pro illegal immigration people in this thread care to address my post on page 18?

this is page 15 for me (your post)

[Silverhandorder]

this is page 15 for me (your post)

I hate you I had to read through some nuke BS.

[UPoopedUPants]

I hate you I had to read through some nuke BS.

why do you hate me because we have different posts per page setting?

i was expecting you to quote your self now so i dont need to figure our your settings and dig around...

[Supercoolguy]

i think you failed to put in the word 'illegal'. If they are illegal then they should be deported or shot. Have a nice day

+1

[Malhavok]

EE;2234736']If you allow free movement of cheap labor, you know what happens? Employers stop hiring Americans and hire cheaper 'guests' who send their money out of the country. It would lower wages more than they already have.

As opposed to what it is now? Most of the people doing gardening type jobs are already illegals - there's a few legals competing with them and most of 'em do okay for no skill not all that difficult labor. Most of the other unskilled labor is offshored or on its way to it ala big 3.

So, you're argument is that cheap labor will take the jobs away from Americans? Already happened. The illegals immigrants already do much of that work here now under the table avoiding taxes & workers comp. If they were legal they still might be willing to work for minimum wage where as most American's aren't... that's still an improvement over the current situation where it's an American for $18/hour (after taxes + workers comp) or an illegal for $5-10.

More to the point. Why do I care about unskilled non-immigrant American labor anymore than I do unskilled immigrant American labor. If the immigrant will do it for less kudos to him and the non-immigrants out on his ass. The same holds for skilled labor, although there is less of a restriction on skilled labor. We already have immigrants legally driving down that ala H2B visas and other programs.


Now you have Americans not working and not buying, the economy crashes.

You have 'guests' sending their money out of the country, not spending, not buying and the economy crashes.


Err, so these people magical beings that don't need shelter, clothing, transportation, food, entertainment? Sure, they'll send some home. How is this any different than an American buying a BMW? Going abroad on vacation?

It's none of your god damn business how people spend their money as long as it's legal. Oh, and just because it'll piss you off I bought my plane tickets to Europe on an Irish Airline and spent my money abroad. Hah!


You have 'guests' getting free medical, having their children on the non working Americans dime, using much needed tax money someplace else and raising medical costs of those who have jobs or insurance ( as they need to pass the cost onto us ).

So, fix the problem. The problem isn't immigrants it's socialism. Get rid of it, problem solved. Now, I actually support safety nets. If you fall they're good to have and most people do at some point in their lives. The thing is they're intended to help you get back on your feet not throw you on their back and carry you your entire life. We're currently moving much more towards the latter. Immigrants, especially unskilled immigrants, tend to be poor and thus disproportionately use the carry you on your back welfare system we're implementing. Get rid of it and the problems solved.


Free movement of labor, open borders and allowing illegal immigrants to stay is a no win situation, any way you look at it.

Disagree, as does history. It does lower the standard of living temporarily. In the longer run one only needs to look at the economic prosperity of nations. We're a terrific example of that as we've always been relatively open borders.


Remember, its not that Americans wont do the job, they wont do the job for pennies a hour like an Illegal will. We also wont live 10 to a house to make ends meet like they will, which is a major burden on a cities infrastructure and tax base for schools. Tax money for schooling comes from property taxes. If you have 10 people lving in one home instead of 3 homes, you are losing out on taxes for two homes, the Citizens eat the cost, not the illegals.
I wouldn't worry too much. Government has always been good at inventing new ways to tax its cows when the need arises.

[Raziaar2]

I see immigrants in a positive light. They are what has made this country great. They have been both the underbelly and the lifeblood of this country. These people have built our cities, built our infrastructure. They have fought our wars. They are Americans.

And yet, people still continue to think otherwise. I have some family members who think immigrants are atrocious, and I think their beliefs are idiotic especially because they're so prejudiced.

[verlox2]

I see immigrants in a positive light. They are what has made this country great. They have been both the underbelly and the lifeblood of this country.

And yet, people still continue to think otherwise. I have some family members who think immigrants are atrocious, and I think their beliefs are idiotic especially because they're so prejudiced.

Oh yes. Mexicans who don't pay taxes makes this country great.

[Spankytwo]

Oh yes. Mexicans who don't pay taxes makes this country great.

Rednecks who hate foreigners make your country great too. Especially on a world view.

[Raziaar2]

Oh yes. Mexicans who don't pay taxes makes this country great.

Wow. Who said anything about people who don't pay their taxes or contribute to society? Sounds like you're talking about illegal immigrants to me. Though as far as the contribution to society part, they do their part as well even if they're not paying taxes. Illegal immigrants have been doing the jobs that Americans don't seem to want to do. And in states where there is a lack of illegal immigrant populations, there are severe manpower shortages, particularly some of the northern states.

Immigrant populations have always conflicted with the rest of society, historically, in this country. It'll continue to be the case. But the country as a whole will benefit as a result as it has done in the past.

Do you know what this country would be if people haven't emigrated from their countries to come here? It wouldn't even be close to its current glory. But some people are too naive to see that.

[Spankytwo]

Illegal immigrants =/= Immigrants

[verlox2]

Rednecks who hate foreigners make your country great too. Especially on a world view.

Ah, yes, here it comes. The Texan remark, no? Sorry to disapoint your pitiful Canadian mind, but I hail from Washington State. Quite a ways from Texas.

Now do please bugger off, Frostback.

[Spankytwo]

Ah, yes, here it comes. The Texan remark, no? Sorry to disapoint your pitiful Canadian mind, but I hail from Washington State. Quite a ways from Texas.

Now do please bugger off, Frostback.

Attempting to look smart does not impress me. And also, where and when did I ever say that you were Texan or from the Southern states?

[Raziaar2]

Now do please bugger off, Frostback.

Frostback? Is that supposed to be some sort of slur? Sounds like one people use for people down south coming across the Rio Grande, except with more extremes of temperature.

You have some serious prejudices you need to work out.

[verlox2]

Frostback? Is that supposed to be some sort of slur? Sounds like one people use for people down south coming across the Rio Grande, except with more extremes of temperature.

I'm just screwing around, inciting tempers cause I'm tired.

But yeah, Frostback is like Wetback, a rather rude term that applies to Mexicans.

[Spankytwo]

I'm just screwing around, inciting tempers cause I'm tired.

But yeah, Frostback is like Wetback, a rather rude term that applies to Mexicans.

Yeah, except wetback is generally used for Mexicans who cross the border to America, no? So why the HELL would any Canadian ever try to get into that thing you call a country.

[verlox2]

Yeah, except wetback is generally used for Mexicans who cross the border to America, no? So why the HELL would any Canadian ever try to get into that thing you call a country.

Well, obviouslt because it's Canada. HELLO! CANADA!

Well eastern Canada anyway. Western Canada is the only part worth it.

[heroshade]

I don't have a problem as long as they don't achieve their "American Dream" through murder and organized crime. Niko Bellic for example...

[Sharuk]

Legal: Welcome to America and enjoy your stay!

Illegal: get out of my country and stop wasting my Tax Dollars on your free Health Care!

To put it bluntly

[Gib the Haunted]

Amercians hate Canadians because we look like them..

[Ziegler]

Rednecks who hate foreigners make your country great too. Especially on a world view.

Fuck what the piss ant world thinks about us, you fuckers just want to bleed us like the illegals..so DIAF..fucking foreigner.


And yeah...I'm a motherfucking gun toting redneck. What are you going to do about it? cuss and insult me on the off topic forums of a non-released game?....ohhhhhhhhhh

[tallefred]

Illegal immigrants should be shot on sight. People emigrating to America are 100% welcome.