Rare items trade, can it exist?

[Chubbyjesus]

(Warning this post contains peanuts and talk of Ultima Online, please be advised)


Rares. The cool fuzzy feeling from owning a rare item. Some games have collectibles, sure, but obtainable rares in Ultima took the cake.

See.. They were accidents, things that werent locked down..

I remember my first one, during the early launch.. I ran by a cannon and the middle highlighted yellow. So I picked it up and back to the bank to store it.

People were picking up everything.. Peices of the graphics, statues, tiles of blood or water or abyss, Null Strings ;), pots, torture devices, thrones.. anything that highlighted..

So during daily maintenance the graphics would replenish (no more highlight) and most of the actually items would respawn. So exploring the world was like a treasure expedition.

Eventually the makers fixed it and went as far as to delete any of the graphic ones they found. Then they started understand how popular rare collecting was, in a game with customizable housing. They put in daily rares purposefully, to be recollected. These were things like special foods, horseshoes, and colored wire. Gave them away as holiday gifts. Was even announced you can show off the rares you had hidden, no hard feelings for hiding them! So people built rare displays.. Some to attract business for a mall, others to show off things only a few people had. I saw one of these museums go on ebay for 16,000 dollars! Granted it was a 4 house bundle, all right near each other (2 doubles, a tower, and a small)... Thats just obnoxious.. Even in game they sold for fortunes.

Still the real rares were the thousands amassed by each server, all but a few dozen of which were deleted. Even during the lapse in prompt fixing, nowhere near ALL of these rares were collected anywhere. Each server had a few unique ones, plucked from the deepest and darkest depths.. Or just a place people neglected to look.. lol.


Anyway I wonder if we will ever see such a thing again.. leads me to ask; Should an MMO launch with rare items, collectible by exploration, that never refresh?

This would be the only way to replicate true "Rares" in an MMO again and create a market for their trade... Bloodied or not.

[Cryx]

they had that in runescape....

party hats anyone?

edit: and yes i played Runescape...got a problem...BUDDY!?

[Finishthis]

Rares, the subject is so touchy.
In Runescape, Rares for a while ruined the game.
In WoW, The "Rare" items can be obtained by anyone.

Rares better be rare if they are rare.

[Chubbyjesus]

they had that in runescape....

party hats anyone?

edit: and yes i played Runescape...got a problem...BUDDY!?

No problem guy! Its cool! :)

I heard good things about RuneScape.. Just when the question "What came first, the chicken or the egg?" is asked.. I say Ultima Online.

Rares are cool beans though, party hats sound absolutely delightful!

I take it you would agree with my post.

Translation complete.

[terrestri]

gems like you describe add many layers of awesome to an mmo. things like this make the atmosphere of a game world so much more enriching.

i sure hope they do something similiar

[Chubbyjesus]

Rares, the subject is so touchy.
In Runescape, Rares for a while ruined the game.
In WoW, The "Rare" items can be obtained by anyone.

Rares better be rare if they are rare.

Thats my point... Rares shouldnt glow and have spinning magic balls of color.. Well wait.. Some should, that sounds cool...

But they shouldnt be quest items.. Or invested time rewards..

They should be stuff the community of the game decides is rare.. And there should be a way to-

A) Display them grandly. (So there is buyers)
B) Take them. (So there is sellers)
C) And kill people for them. (So they're hot potatoes)


Some may think I just want to murder and steal them from people.. Which is true... But I believe in their purpose and (obviously) was a collector myself.

They add depth, depth adds good.


gems like you describe add many layers of awesome to an mmo. things like this make the atmosphere of a game world so much more enriching.

i sure hope they do something similiar

[Sinter_Klaas]

I agree with the OP, and I would like it if they added/removed rares to dungeons each update so people have to keep exploring.

[Calber]

I don't know about rare items you can pick up off the ground, but maybe items or materials you can only find on some rare powerful creatures, which in turn can be used to craft semi-unique items. Like if I manage to kill some giant dragon-god, I can take its scales, and then I can use those to craft dragon plate mail armor and wear that around town to show off. Of course it'd be dangerous to actually use in battle because if somebody killed you they could just take it :rolleyes:

[sincryptic]

real rares (not wow calling a good weapon a rare) are awesome. whether the game makes want it to be a rare or not is fine, as long as there is NO production and the item isn't completely retarted, or is COMPLETELY retarted, people collect them. It gives the market a place for the rich to waste money and they make the best status symbols. unfortuanatly, MMOs that try this on purpose often fuck it up. There must not be too many to make it truly rare, no matter if there are no new ones coming out, and if they are producable at first, people must not know they are built to be rares or they suck.

[Chubbyjesus]

I don't know about rare items you can pick up off the ground, but maybe items or materials you can only find on some rare powerful creatures, which in turn can be used to craft semi-unique items. Like if I manage to kill some giant dragon-god, I can take its scales, and then I can use those to craft dragon plate mail armor and wear that around town to show off. Of course it'd be dangerous to actually use in battle because if somebody killed you they could just take it :rolleyes:

No no.. Im talking of something aside from material rares.. They are already in.. Else what would guilds have to fight over areas for!

Basically if they're craftable.. They are not rare.

Rare is the word of the thread.

[Kaol]

I don't think they want objects in the game. This being to reduce server stress.

This said, a game will always have rare items, rare describes something scarce whether it be a sword, warhulk or pet panda.

[Chubbyjesus]

real rares (not wow calling a good weapon a rare) are awesome. whether the game makes want it to be a rare or not is fine, as long as there is NO production and the item isn't completely retarted, or is COMPLETELY retarted, people collect them. It gives the market a place for the rich to waste money and they make the best status symbols. unfortuanatly, MMOs that try this on purpose often fuck it up. There must not be too many to make it truly rare, no matter if there are no new ones coming out, and if they are producable at first, people must not know they are built to be rares or they suck.

Anyway I wonder if we will ever see such a thing again.. leads me to ask; Should an MMO launch with rare items, collectible by exploration, that never refresh?

Only way its doable... Id see a smart company if submitted player art was crafted into unique rares and added at a launch (or shortly there after even).

Late into a game its just flopping the carrot.. But if its during first round exploration.. YAY.. Rares.

[Sharpshooter]

I don't think they want objects in the game. This being to reduce server stress.

If they are rare what would that have to do with it, lol. Rare doesn't mean 5000 copies you know.

[sincryptic]

thats the point RARE, if its only in the beginning, rares are often considered worthless, then suddenly there arent many left and there arent going to be anymore.. UO was unique in how people loved them to begin with, but the market usually starts with sales to friends who want nostalgia. people hear and want them to pose as Original Players too. Original Players sell, but only for high prices cause they don't want posers and the posers will pay. suddenly they are a status item and a rare. I saw it happen in last chaos, runscape, maple, ect.

[Deirbhathdellte]

I don't think they want objects in the game. This being to reduce server stress.

This said, a game will always have rare items, rare describes something scarce whether it be a sword, warhulk or pet panda.

Rare has many meanings, he's using it in this thread differently then any craftable item (no matter how difficult and 'rare' it is to craft).

[Sylex]

I think a good way to do it would be to have "rare" (or, closer to what you use in this thread, "unique" or "limited" items) items scattered around that don't really do anything, are just a showoff type of thing - and then make them unable to be stored in banks.

This brings up a question - when you pick it up, you know if you use it or show it off, you paint a target on your back. Do you really WANT the rare?

You'd never know. I think it would be pretty interesting.

[Auss]

I sooooo hope that there are rares. Rares in Runescape was a huge turning wheel of the economy. It was the main reason people made money besides for leveling. Rares were just awesome in that game. Even once they got to the point where you would never be able to afford the better ones, it was cool to even see them. I think it just adds depth to a game, and that's what DF is all about.

[sincryptic]

thats the point, but the amount must be semi-large to begin with, and must NOT go up after the initial gain. EVER. something showy or useless, or a sword, it just cant be the uber sword or the whole way it trades hands is different and doesnt end with the same fun rare/limited item. trust me, if you watched, maple used to try and add rares all the time, worked for a bit, then fell through each time,

[Peacekeeper]

its hard for a game to purposely implement rares because ultimately they piss off more people(those who cant get them, etc) than they please. Adding rares like these purposefully isnt good business.

[Trik]

Whats funny is I don't think anyone here understands what the rare items were that he is talking about.

[Chubbyjesus]

Whats funny is I don't think anyone here understands what the rare items were that he is talking about.

I was just starting to think that..

[sincryptic]

perfect example is runescapes santa hat.. overal not the cool of a rare, but it was something worthless, that was priced beyond any status symbol that could be produced could ever hope. one party hat could buy twelve of everything else in teh friggin game. Just something that is not neccisarrily "good" but is a hallmark of wealth and/or exclusivity. I was just listing what was needed to make an item worth that, that WANTED by everyone. if you have it, your not only the shit, your the SHIT. the one thing all the endgames characters fully specced out with the best damn gear dream of. thats a rare. they add alot of depth to games, and change the economy by providing a "luxury" item that actually changes hands.

[Chubbyjesus]

thats the point, but the amount must be semi-large to begin with, and must NOT go up after the initial gain. EVER. something showy or useless, or a sword, it just cant be the uber sword or the whole way it trades hands is different and doesnt end with the same fun rare/limited item. trust me, if you watched, maple used to try and add rares all the time, worked for a bit, then fell through each time,

Semi-large? Not at all, what im talking about is UNIQUE rares. If plural, should be set like.
Used items accidentally becoming rare cant be foreseen. Like a normal bag is changed a year in.. After another year or so, the old bags become 'rare' and people will buy them. These could or could not happen.

What im speculating over, is if it would work if a game purposefully adds items early in the game.. These items are 100% unique (with variants).

This would eventually give them 'rare' worth.. But even early on could yield a buck from a smart investor.

its hard for a game to purposely implement rares because ultimately they piss off more people(those who cant get them, etc) than they please. Adding rares like these purposefully isnt good business.

Opposite of true. Its like bullshit vomited horseshit.

[SekZ]

OP,

If you read the lore section in regards to what a Chaldea dungeon is like, you'll see the following quote:
http://www.darkfallonline.com/world_lore/buried_city.html
All who survive the onslaught will be able to search through a large collection of Chaldean artefacts gathered near the entrance, ready to be hoisted up out through the ceiling. Most of these items are of interest to collectors only.

I think this indicates that there are rares in some form (Chaldean artifacts) and I wouldn't be shocked to find the developer's probably included more.

[Chubbyjesus]

OP,

If you read the lore section in regards to what a Chaldea dungeon is like, you'll see the following quote:
http://www.darkfallonline.com/world_lore/buried_city.html


I think this indicates that there are rares in some form (Chaldean artifacts) and I wouldn't be shocked to find the developer's probably included more.

Lore usually talks in fancy tongue..

That could mean these "artifacts" could just be cosmetic.. Could be like a treasure chest with coin loot/gems..

But thank you very much, that does give hope that they might have some unique items.

[Trik]

I wouldn't mind seeing rares, back in old UO my friend had a rare hunter who bounced around usually for daily spawns. We tried once to get some server birth rares, like the hourglass in Hyloth I think, but we couldn't get down far enough.

[notext]

Here's something for all the gamers who came AFTER UO.
(or runescape meh)

Rares were decoration.

That is to say - glowing lava tile? Put it on the floor in your house and 'lock it down' displaying a 'unique' decoration in your property.

Others included piles of hay, skeletons in shackles and more.

Ok these items were 'rare' because they were originally never designed to be taken as decorations and once the devs found out people had they stopped them being takeable anymore.

So these items had a use (albeit a pretty carebear one if you think about it) which meant they were desireable and thus rare traders came into being amongst the playerbase, abandoned player owned properties would sometimes yield them and thus chaos at those happenings with people all wanting a share etc etc.

The rares phenomenon is a great example how a simple game mechanic (even an accidental one) can create a whole sub culture and conflict.

How about one stone quarry map wide giving rare white stone for city walls? maybe it has 10% more 'building hp'?
How about a particular dungeon map wide occassionally spawning 2 - 3 trees that yield 'ironwood' which can be used to make arrows with +10% range?

these are the incredibly simple things devs 'can' do which have very little impact in game mechanics but can create whole wars the players will play out with little to no dev effort.

this is what i'm hoping for in DF, simple game mechanics which due to the nature of players escalate into black markets, war starters or simply unique places which again lead to 'pilgramiges', trade, conflict and uniqueness.

[teromous]

The original rares in UO were never intended to be rare (i.e. server birth rares). Origin used to give out Christmas presents that were never intended to be "rare" either. They were just presents.

EA, being the capitalists they are, decided that it would be a good idea to make rare items on purpose so that people could collect them. The players, being the sheep that they were/are, bought into this. Some people say UO was ruined when Tram was introduced, and many others agree it was further destroyed with AoS. One was when PVP was segregated, the other was with itemization (and the dismemberment of the game).

Making rare collectables for the sake of them being rare is a waste in my opinion. It debases the community by appealing to their humanistic drive to collect more garbage, and it says a lot about the direction you are willing to take with a game.

[notext]

oh i'm talking about the period of UO 1997 to 2001, once the power scrolls game in there were players with significantly higher templates meaning a no longer level playing field, thats when i jacked it in.

Rares were good I dont care what your grudge is against a few pixels of 'bubbling flask' LOL

the trick is keeping them RARE, not dropping off mobs that can be farmed, not as 'presents' from the devs, but actually 'rare' enough that you hardly ever see them.

And again, I dont care about the rares themselves, i'm looking further than the end of my nose to the consequences of such rares including politics, wars, black markets, theft etc etc

[Silver-S-]

I think rares add something to any type of game. They add interest to the game and also help develop a strong community in the game. People become collectors, new people that come to the game can see and try and collect old rares. You get pride from saying "I picked this rare up in 2009" I was one of the first to explore "xxx" dungeon.

Rares become legends, people become legends and people create museums for everyone to see. True Rares should not be items dropped by monsters unless the monsters become extinct somehow. They also should not be craftable, although the exception to that in UO was that they changed the names of the signature on weapons throughout time. Games need every piece of ammo they can find to make their game last a long time. Not just lvl to 60, complete X dungeon over and over then wait for the next expansion where you can level to 70 :bang:.

[sincryptic]

yeah, good rares are great, but the community CANNOT be aware something is going to be a rare until it is if you want a good rare, and there must be no production, those are the only two things really required for a rare to exist.

[neon sheild]

they had that in runescape....

party hats anyone?

edit: and yes i played Runescape...got a problem...BUDDY!?

thats ok, i played rs also
got pretty good 2
but then i discovered df
and then, as they say, he lived happily ever after...