Politics: 4 more years! 4 more years! [Archive]

holychicken

12-20-2008, 06:27 PM

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081220/ap_on_re_as/as_afghanistan

Some pretty sweet "change" right there :rolleyes:
It is a change. It is a change from wasting our time and troops on Iraq and instead using them to stabilize the country would should have been trying to stabilize all alone.

Obama also campaigned on this.

Your complaints are much better when they are actually valid.

Lethn

12-20-2008, 06:31 PM

Helgeran

12-20-2008, 06:31 PM

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081220/ap_on_re_as/as_afghanistan

Some pretty sweet "change" right there :rolleyes:
You not knowing that was his plan all along makes me think you never gave him a chance and read his politics in the first place but I'd never accuse you of such a thing, Slyppie.

Slypieguy

12-20-2008, 06:33 PM

It is a change. It is a change from wasting our time and troops on Iraq and instead using them to stabilize the country would should have been trying to stabilize all alone.

Obama also campaigned on this.

Your complaints are much better when they are actually valid.

Shuffling troops around in the middle east rather than bringing them home is all it takes to make you happy? Or you have just sucked so much Obama peen that you will now try to justify all his moves? And what does it matter if he campaigned on it? I wasn't accusing him of flip-flopping, just being an idiot.

Slypieguy

12-20-2008, 06:34 PM

You not knowing that was his plan all along makes me think you never gave him a chance and read his politics in the first place but I'd never accuse you of such a thing, Slyppie.

I did know it was his plan, and thought it was retarded from the beginning. It's amazing how people are so 'anti-war/bring the troops home" until Obama wants to send them somewhere.

Bissen

12-20-2008, 06:35 PM

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081220/ap_on_re_as/as_afghanistan

Some pretty sweet "change" right there :rolleyes:

Wtf has Afghanistan got to do with Obama promising change?

It was Iraq they lied about. Remember?

rockyraccoon

12-20-2008, 06:36 PM

I gotta ask the people of America just right now how many troops do they actually think their country has, because when I hear about how the general of their own forces thinks that they are spread too thin then it makes me just wonder what forces the government thinks they'll magically have when people decide to fight back.

what is it with you and creating a revolting militia to fight the government. you said you were going to create a militia several times in tinfoil hat threads.

tallefred

12-20-2008, 06:38 PM

Whatever. I am no longer going to get upset about what my government does. I know their day is coming and when it does I will be one of the first ones out on the streets, but until then there is absolutely nothing I can do.

holychicken

12-20-2008, 06:39 PM

Shuffling troops around in the middle east rather than bringing them home is all it takes to make you happy? Or you have just sucked so much Obama peen that you will now try to justify all his moves?
First, I didn't even vote for Obama. Second, he campaigned on this. Third, even when we were going into Iraq, while I wasn't adamantly opposed to it, I worried how it would affect what I believed to be the more important mission in Afghanistan. My position has nothing to do with sucking on Obama's peen, but I guess that strawman gives you a pretty good target.

And what does it matter if he campaigned on it? I wasn't accusing him of flip-flopping, just being an idiot.
No, you were accusing him of not really changing. Or, at least, that is the most obvious thing implied by your initial post. Focusing on what is important instead of the mindless war in Iraq IS a change and a good one.

Bissen

12-20-2008, 06:40 PM

alfaroverall

12-20-2008, 06:41 PM

It is a change. It is a change from wasting our time and troops on Iraq and instead using them to stabilize the country would should have been trying to stabilize all alone.

Obama also campaigned on this.

Your complaints are much better when they are actually valid.
Indeed...this is a rare example of a less-than-valid, or at the very least ill-timed, complaint from Slypie.
I gotta ask the people of America just right now how many troops do they actually think their country has, because when I hear about how the general of their own forces thinks that they are spread too thin then it makes me just wonder what forces the government thinks they'll magically have when people decide to fight back.
1. Draft. kthx.
2. When people think a war is legitimate, more of them sign up.

Razel

12-20-2008, 06:44 PM

personally i'd rather have troops than mercenaries fighting private wars for profit. Unfortunately this 'war on wotever they call it today' as many others were contrived under false pretenses so it just needs to stop.

The problem with just stopping is that wars generate money for large corporations and eventually help the economy, therefore i dont see the 'war' ending anytime soon. Even darkfalls 'soon' will make this war feel like a millennium.

holychicken

12-20-2008, 06:44 PM

Indeed...this is a rare example of a less-than-valid, or at the very least ill-timed, complaint from Slypie.
Which was my part of my point. Usually his attacks are poignant and intelligent. This one just struck me as flailing.

1. Draft. kthx.
2. When people think a war is legitimate, more of them sign up.
Or the economy is in the shitter.

Helgeran

12-20-2008, 06:44 PM

I did know it was his plan, and thought it was retarded from the beginning. It's amazing how people are so 'anti-war/bring the troops home" until Obama wants to send them somewhere.
Yeah it's weird, both McCain and Obama wanted to increase military spending from what I heard.

Slypieguy

12-20-2008, 06:46 PM

First, I didn't even vote for Obama. Second, he campaigned on this. Third, even when we were going into Iraq, while I wasn't adamantly opposed to it, I worried how it would affect what I believed to be the more important mission in Afghanistan. My position has nothing to do with sucking on Obama's peen, but I guess that strawman gives you a pretty good target.

How is Afghanistan more important? Osama isn't even there anymore. It's the exact same thing as Iraq (a guerilla war that will just drain us dry)

No, you were accusing him of not really changing. Or, at least, that is the most obvious thing implied by your initial post. Focusing on what is important instead of the mindless war in Iraq IS a change and a good one.

The type of change American people wanted was less war, not different war. Like I said, sending troops from one war we can't win to another is hardly a change.

Everto

12-20-2008, 06:47 PM

It is a change. It is a change from wasting our time and troops on Iraq and instead using them to stabilize the country would should have been trying to stabilize all alone.

Obama also campaigned on this.

Your complaints are much better when they are actually valid.

So, he's going to try and take down "The Cemetary"? It's called The Cemetary because that's where the bones of all great empires end up.

Y'know, the place that broke Russia's back, and has broken ours before?
Our attempts will be useless, their advantage is far too vast, they beat any military with ease.

It's amazing we just haven't nuked them.

Nevron

12-20-2008, 06:48 PM

I have no problem with this. I've always been a supporter of focusing our efforts on Afghanistan rather than Iraq.

Lethn

12-20-2008, 06:50 PM

what is it with you and creating a revolting militia to fight the government. you said you were going to create a militia several times in tinfoil hat threads.

I didn't say I would, I said that's what I would do if I was in your situation lmao though I might have gone a bit overboard in rage because quite frankly I think what they're doing is disgusting.

Malhavok

12-20-2008, 06:54 PM

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081220/ap_on_re_as/as_afghanistan

Some pretty sweet "change" right there :rolleyes:

Inability to distinguish between Iraq and Afghanistan is a decidedly Bushite trait. And one that tends to be held by the less intelligent and bigoted kind. I've always supported Afghanistan in principle if not in practice so gogo Obama for doing what the Republicans couldn't do when they pulled out before stabilizing the country. Iraqs a different situation, we never should have gone in and now that we have I haven't got a clue how to fix it. If such a thing is even possible.

Also, this is the high-ranking military figures. Wait and see. The Bush administration took a very hands on approach to broad tactical choices and generally fucked things up when they did. This may just be the military trying to preemptively take the reigns back from the Obama administration. I don't think it's the most likely explanation but wait and see.

Razel

12-20-2008, 06:55 PM

I have no problem with this. I've always been a supporter of focusing our efforts on Afghanistan rather than Iraq.

In the beginning i did too, however at this point i can't see one good reason we are still in that region at all. Even if the argument that wars help the economy is valid, it only helps huge corporations which are inheriently corrupt and arguably illegal such as haliburton, blackwater etc. The result of this is we the taxpayers end up with the burden and loss of life. Its really a no win situation in the long run and i don't understand why people can't see this.

Bissen

12-20-2008, 06:56 PM

How is Afghanistan more important? Osama isn't even there anymore. It's the exact same thing as Iraq (a guerilla war that will just drain us dry)

You should have thought about that when you threw your armies heedlessly into the war on "terror".

The NATO alliance is actually doing great work there, and to leave the afghan people behind now would be nothing more than cowardice.

tallefred

12-20-2008, 07:04 PM

I see. You're a coward follower more than a leader...

I'm not about to run out into the streets and start a riot right now- people in America are completely apathetic to what's going on around them. When people start waking up, I'll be there. Until then I'll sit here on the internet and make angry speeches because there's nothing else I can do.

Did you know that not a single kid that I spoke to knew that there were riots going on in Greece 10 days after they started? True story. If people don't care there's nothing anyone can do to help them.

Besides, when did I claim to be a leader? I have horrible social skills and I'm shy, not exactly leader material. If someone gets up and tries to fix this country, then I'll follow them. That's nothing to be ashamed of, if everybody tried to be a leader the world would cease to function. You can choose who to follow instead of following blindly.

I do try to wake people up, but most just go "meh" and continue with what they were doing, or tell me that it's "not my fight". I'm doing what I can. I've restarted my martial arts training and started working out, and I'm following the news closely. I speak to people I meet about the problems our country is facing, and I try to get them to care. I vote Libertarian and try to get other people to as well (which generally leads to "what's Libertarian?").

tl;dr: Fuck Bissen.

Silverhandorder

12-20-2008, 07:05 PM

You should have thought about that when you threw your armies heedlessly into the war on "terror".

The NATO alliance is actually doing great work there, and to leave the afghan people behind now would be nothing more than cowardice.

74% of the country are under Taliban control. Our supply lines pay Taliban not to harm them. NATO forces are doing a great job? Do Uropeans consider great job getting their asses handed to them?

Razel

12-20-2008, 07:09 PM

I'm not about to run out into the streets and start a riot right now- people in America are completely apathetic to what's going on around them. When people start waking up, I'll be there. Until then I'll sit here on the internet and make angry speeches because there's nothing else I can do.

Did you know that not a single kid that I spoke to knew that there were riots going on in Greece 10 days after they started? True story. If people don't care there's nothing anyone can do to help them.

Besides, when did I claim to be a leader? I have horrible social skills and I'm shy, not exactly leader material. If someone gets up and tries to fix this country, then I'll follow them. That's nothing to be ashamed of, if everybody tried to be a leader the world would cease to function. You can choose who to follow instead of following blindly.

I do try to wake people up, but most just go "meh" and continue with what they were doing, or tell me that it's "not my fight". I'm doing what I can. I've restarted my martial arts training and started working out, and I'm following the news closely. I speak to people I meet about the problems our country is facing, and I try to get them to care. I vote Libertarian and try to get other people to as well (which generally leads to "what's Libertarian?").

tl;dr: Fuck Bissen.

lol true... most people think that voting for the most popular football team is 'helping' and all they can seem to find enough energy for. Had this 'war on bullshit' taken place in the u.s. i guarantee you people would care a tad more and i think its no coincidence that its not.

Bissen

12-20-2008, 07:34 PM

I'm not about to run out into the streets and start a riot right now- people in America are completely apathetic to what's going on around them. When people start waking up, I'll be there. Until then I'll sit here on the internet and make angry speeches because there's nothing else I can do.

Did you know that not a single kid that I spoke to knew that there were riots going on in Greece 10 days after they started? True story. If people don't care there's nothing anyone can do to help them.

Besides, when did I claim to be a leader? I have horrible social skills and I'm shy, not exactly leader material. If someone gets up and tries to fix this country, then I'll follow them. That's nothing to be ashamed of, if everybody tried to be a leader the world would cease to function. You can choose who to follow instead of following blindly.

I do try to wake people up, but most just go "meh" and continue with what they were doing, or tell me that it's "not my fight". I'm doing what I can. I've restarted my martial arts training and started working out, and I'm following the news closely. I speak to people I meet about the problems our country is facing, and I try to get them to care. I vote Libertarian and try to get other people to as well (which generally leads to "what's Libertarian?").

tl;dr: Fuck Bissen.

See. Was that so hard now. This reply differs pretty much from your first, wouldn't you say?

holychicken

12-20-2008, 07:36 PM

How is Afghanistan more important? Osama isn't even there anymore. It's the exact same thing as Iraq (a guerilla war that will just drain us dry)
Yes, but the country was actually the staging ground of the attacks. . .while Iraq was shown to be nothing more than. . .well. . .nothing.

Something > Nothing.

The type of change American people wanted was less war, not different war. Like I said, sending troops from one war we can't win to another is hardly a change.
He campaigned on raising the levels of troops in Afghanistan. America voted for him. To say that the American people didn't vote for this is not based in reality, sorry.

So, he's going to try and take down "The Cemetary"? It's called The Cemetary because that's where the bones of all great empires end up.

Y'know, the place that broke Russia's back, and has broken ours before?
Our attempts will be useless, their advantage is far too vast, they beat any military with ease.

It's amazing we just haven't nuked them.
So you are in the camp that we have made no progress in Iraq?

Fair enough and I cannot entirely disagree with you (well, other than the completely idiotic talk about nuking innocent people pretty much making sure turning any of the people in the ME that are not our enemies into our enemies), but my point is that he campaigned on it and you might see the change as trivial, but the fact of the matter is that he switched from what the American public does not care about, and may even detest, to something that they feel should be done.

Bissen

12-20-2008, 07:40 PM

74% of the country are under Taliban control. Our supply lines pay Taliban not to harm them. NATO forces are doing a great job? Do Uropeans consider great job getting their asses handed to them?

Well considering they used to have 100% of the country under control and were the ultimate source of terror networks, I'd have to go with yes.

tallefred

12-20-2008, 07:42 PM

See. Was that so hard now. This reply differs pretty much from your first, wouldn't you say?

Lol, I guess it does. You got me worked up, so I guess that makes me a liar.

YOU CALLING ME A LIAR NOW???

Bissen

12-20-2008, 07:44 PM

Lol, I guess it does. You got me worked up, so I guess that makes me a liar.

YOU CALLING ME A LIAR NOW???

:sly:

VorpalSpork

12-21-2008, 04:44 AM

I gotta ask the people of America just right now how many troops do they actually think their country has, because when I hear about how the general of their own forces thinks that they are spread too thin then it makes me just wonder what forces the government thinks they'll magically have when people decide to fight back.

1,447,076 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_the_United_States) or a bit more than twice that if you count reserves.