Israel vs Iran: When will they bomb it? [Archive]

Daemonicus

12-07-2008, 05:44 AM

Yep. It's gonna happen. I myself find this a bit disturbing since I'm planning to move to Israel to work on a kibbutz sometime next year. Let's hope if it does happen, Israel does it right and doesn't start World War 3. It's quiet likely that a whole new war can and will break out over this.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1227702421218&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

One religious fanatic nation vs another religious fanatic nation.

I hope they both get bombed back to the stone age.

In all seriousness, there won't be a war between Isreal and Iran. If shit does happen it'll most likely end up in end of our modern civilization through a nuclear war faught between West and the Independents (Iran, Syria, Russia &Co., North Korea, Cuba, Venezuela and so on). Such scenario would only bring the end of the humanity as we know it.

Remember, Iran isn't Iraq which prior to 2003 had a military running on unicycles.

Toxic Waste

12-07-2008, 05:52 AM

Ehh, I feel safe in Israel for the most part. Unless the Palestinians rioted and went on a genocidal killing spree (not that they already haven't tried to some extent), I wouldn't worry that much. It's gonna happen, Israel is gonna bomb Iran. No doubt about that. But, if Iran bombs Israel they risk killing a lot of Palestinians. That would really tick off the Arabs. Comparatively speaking though, there's a lot more murders in a city of America than there are terrorist victims.

But you realize that with all of the shit that's going on there, it'll all probably just be one big sheet of glass within the next ten years.

EDIT: That said, I put my money on Israel.

Stark

12-07-2008, 05:55 AM

Don't be silly. Israel is not going to bomb Iran.

They'll just have the US do it.

IthroZada

12-07-2008, 05:55 AM

EDIT: That said, I put my money on Israel.

I would agree that betting on the country that wtfpwnt 6 other countries the day after it was formed is a good idea

Kidgard

12-07-2008, 06:01 AM

One religious fanatic nation vs another religious fanatic nation.

I hope they both get bombed back to the stone age.

In all seriousness, there won't be a war between Isreal and Iran. If shit does happen it'll most likely end up in end of our modern civilization through a nuclear war faught between West and the Independents (Iran, Syria, Russia &Co., North Korea, Cuba, Venezuela and so on). Such scenario would only bring the end of the humanity as we know it.

Remember, Iran isn't Iraq which prior to 2003 had a military running on unicycles.

Hmmm. While I will admit you have your point, as a somewhat secular Jew I don't exactly see Israel as an entirely fanatic nation. Certainly, it does have some blood on its hands, how some of the Israelis stole land from them. But, Palestine was controlled by the British anyways and how many years has it been since Palestine was actually sovereign and controlled by the Palestinians? Of course my view is slightly biased to what comes off to me as a secular humanist, yourself. But, there will be a war between Israel and Iran though.

You'd have to be blind to say there won't be. Ahmadinejad has clearly stated he wants to wipe Israel off the face of the earth multiple times. All the Muslims and their Mullahs are calling holy war on Israel and America. Ahmadinejad wants to start his own nuclear problem, Obama wants to sit down and talk diplomacy and not infringe on their "rights to nuclear power," and Israel will do what it needs to do to survive. If you think that they'll sit still while the Iranians build up the capability to make nukes (I'm sure they have them from Russians though), you're sadly mistaken. In the middle east, when you have a large ammount of fanatical Muslims running the show and a vast majority who hold strong anti-american/western/israeli sentiment, you can bet your ass they'll strike Israel. The difference between Israel and most of these Arab countries is survival. Jews have always been persecuted and we do what we need to in order to stay alive and prosper. Sometimes we do wrong, but Israel does not want to wipe Iran off the face of the earth. Nor do we threaten to wipe Mecca off the face of the earth, for that matter. Maybe we should if they want a holy war.

Kidgard

12-07-2008, 06:06 AM

Don't be silly. Israel is not going to bomb Iran.

They'll just have the US do it.

I don't think you read the article. But, let me ask you this. With America going into the worst depression it's ever seen and our foreign dependency on oil, do you honestly think Obama is gonna support Israel if they bomb Iran? What reactions do you think that will cause in the Arab community? To my knowledge, the only surrounding country you can go into if you have an Israeli passport is Egypt. Most Arab countries don't recognize Israel as a country. Obama is gonna sell Israel right down the river. Mark my words on that.

IthroZada

12-07-2008, 06:09 AM

With America going into the worst depression it's ever seen.

Exaggerate much? This isn't exactly being called The Greater than the Great Depression Depression

Stark

12-07-2008, 06:13 AM

do you honestly think Obama is gonna support Israel if they bomb Iran?

Yes, I sure do!

1)Look at his voting record.
2)Look at his speeches to AIPAC.
3)Look at him pandering to Israel.
4)Look at his chief of staff.

Kidgard

12-07-2008, 06:13 AM

Exaggerate much? This isn't exactly being called The Greater than the Great Depression Depression

I'm not the best economist, but I understand housing is going down worse than it was in the depression in some places. This is only the start of it though. There's always hope, but if things keep going the way they are... Maybe it wont be worse, but we're definatley heading into one.

Stark

12-07-2008, 06:14 AM

Obama is gonna sell Israel right down the river. Mark my words on that.

That would be the end of his political career.

c4t

12-07-2008, 06:16 AM

this thread is missing two words.

zionism and neo-conservatism.

there, i said it. GO!

Toxic Waste

12-07-2008, 06:19 AM

I would agree that betting on the country that wtfpwnt 6 other countries the day after it was formed is a good idea

Which is exactly why I put my money on Israel. That, and they have one of the best tanks ever to grace the world.

Daemonicus

12-07-2008, 06:22 AM

I don't think you read the article. But, let me ask you this. With America going into the worst depression it's ever seen and our foreign dependency on oil, do you honestly think Obama is gonna support Israel if they bomb Iran? What reactions do you think that will cause in the Arab community? To my knowledge, the only surrounding country you can go into if you have an Israeli passport is Egypt. Most Arab countries don't recognize Israel as a country. Obama is gonna sell Israel right down the river. Mark my words on that.

That's my exac point, Obama won't approve invasion of Iran. That's another reason why I don't think that no war with Iran will happen until at least another Republican gets into the office. I disagree with you on the part of Obama's support for Isreal. US has always been a natural strong ally of Isreal, and that won't ever change. I can guarantee you that if Isreal is ever attacked, US will always be the first one to respond with help.

As for Ahmadinejad, even Iranians don't really like him. The guy is an idiot and all about talk. My guessing is that he'll be out of the picture soon and the man to replace him will be more of a moderate.

I'd be more afraid of North Korea, now those guys are fucking nuts indeed. Iran and it's people don't wont to be wiped off the face of the earth, followed by the rest of Middle East and eventually the entire world, since such conflict would have some REALLY BAD chain reaction.

IthroZada

12-07-2008, 06:23 AM

I'd be more afraid of North Korea, now those guys are fucking nuts indeed.

This.
The man who orders his people to crap on their lawns to beautify the country is a couple of screws loose of not being a fucking nutbag.

Daemonicus

12-07-2008, 06:24 AM

Yes, I sure do!

1)Look at his voting record.
2)Look at his speeches to AIPAC.
3)Look at him pandering to Israel.
4)Look at his chief of staff.

So what? He isn't Bush.

He won't support Isreal's attack on Iran unless Isreal is attacked first.

IthroZada

12-07-2008, 06:27 AM

So what? He isn't Bush.

He won't support Isreal's attack on Iran unless Isreal is attacked first.

You are underestimating how much America is in the pocket of the Jews (http://www.jewwatch.com/)

Kidgard

12-07-2008, 06:28 AM

Yes, I sure do!

1)Look at his voting record.
2)Look at his speeches to AIPAC.
3)Look at him pandering to Israel.
4)Look at his chief of staff.

The problem is though, Obama wants to talk diplomacy with Iran and Palestinians. What I think you fail to realize is that you can't talk diplomacy with Palestinians. There will always continue to be an ongoing conflict as long as the Jews are in Israel and Israel is still Israel, not Palestine. Iran wants Israel off the face of the Earth, Obama wants to talk about it and prevent war at all costs. That will be his first step to this whole Iranian-Israel threat, if Israel doesn't bomb them before Bush is out of office. Israel does not want Iran to have a nuclear power program PERIOD. It doesn't matter what the Iranians say, Israelis don't trust Ahmadinejad. You make a threat like "Israel will be wiped off the face the earth", Israel is gonna take out what you all can use to do it. Israelis don't fuck around. And if you think an oil dependant economy going into a depression is going to jump into the Jihad anymore than it already is, when we're trying to create peace in the middle east and withdrawal troops from Iraq, I think that's unlikely. America doesn't need gas going up to say 8$ a gallon because Israel winds up going to war and we back them up. Not gonna happen, especially if you've got a Muslim sympathist in office. The whole middle east is getting to the point where it's down with America. And if we back Israel in a war, Arab run oil countries will do everything in our power to make us suffer more.

Kidgard

12-07-2008, 06:36 AM

That's my exac point, Obama won't approve invasion of Iran. That's another reason why I don't think that no war with Iran will happen until at least another Republican gets into the office. I disagree with you on the part of Obama's support for Isreal. US has always been a natural strong ally of Isreal, and that won't ever change. I can guarantee you that if Isreal is ever attacked, US will always be the first one to respond with help.

As for Ahmadinejad, even Iranians don't really like him. The guy is an idiot and all about talk. My guessing is that he'll be out of the picture soon and the man to replace him will be more of a moderate.

I'd be more afraid of North Korea, now those guys are fucking nuts indeed. Iran and it's people don't wont to be wiped off the face of the earth, followed by the rest of Middle East and eventually the entire world, since such conflict would have some REALLY BAD chain reaction.

I hear you on North Korea. That Kim Jong is like a modern doctor evil. Everytime I see him he has like a gray suit on much like Dr. Evil and is clapping with a big smile and his patsies all following suit. I don't think anyone particularly knows what N. Korea's deal is. They might not do anything at all. If you ask me, their leader seems a bit too much of a flake that everyone hates to really cause enough damage.

As for Iran... don't be so certain. Indeed, a lot of people don't like him. But Islam is in need of a renaissance. You've got a good deal of anti-americanism and israeli hatred over there. Even his own people who don't like him often share the same opinion of the "Great Satan" which resides in the west. Things are coming to a boil. Let's see if things play out as prophecy likes to predict.

Gaal

12-07-2008, 06:40 AM

Hmmm. While I will admit you have your point, as a somewhat secular Jew I don't exactly see Israel as an entirely fanatic nation. Certainly, it does have some blood on its hands, how some of the Israelis stole land from them. But, Palestine was controlled by the British anyways and how many years has it been since Palestine was actually sovereign and controlled by the Palestinians? Of course my view is slightly biased to what comes off to me as a secular humanist, yourself. But, there will be a war between Israel and Iran though.

You'd have to be blind to say there won't be. Ahmadinejad has clearly stated he wants to wipe Israel off the face of the earth multiple times. All the Muslims and their Mullahs are calling holy war on Israel and America. Ahmadinejad wants to start his own nuclear problem, Obama wants to sit down and talk diplomacy and not infringe on their "rights to nuclear power," and Israel will do what it needs to do to survive. If you think that they'll sit still while the Iranians build up the capability to make nukes (I'm sure they have them from Russians though), you're sadly mistaken. In the middle east, when you have a large ammount of fanatical Muslims running the show and a vast majority who hold strong anti-american/western/israeli sentiment, you can bet your ass they'll strike Israel. The difference between Israel and most of these Arab countries is survival. Jews have always been persecuted and we do what we need to in order to stay alive and prosper. Sometimes we do wrong, but Israel does not want to wipe Iran off the face of the earth. Nor do we threaten to wipe Mecca off the face of the earth, for that matter. Maybe we should if they want a holy war.

Ya for some reason the islam faith have far more many radical fascists than any other religion.

Funny how that works.

Kidgard

12-07-2008, 06:48 AM

Ya for some reason the islam faith have far more many radical fascists than any other religion.

Funny how that works.

Islam means submission to God. The goal of Islam is to get everyone to submit to the laws of God, which they find in the Qoran. Depending on how you read it, one could argue that if you're sinful then you should be killed. It is a sin to deny the existence of God, let's just leave it at that. It all depends on how you interpret it though. Not all Muslims are bad and I don't know enough about the religion. But, actions speak a lot louder than words.

Gaal

12-07-2008, 06:53 AM

Daemonicus

12-07-2008, 06:58 AM

Islam means submission to God. The goal of Islam is to get everyone to submit to the laws of God, which they find in the Qoran. Depending on how you read it, one could argue that if you're sinful then you should be killed. It is a sin to deny the existence of God, let's just leave it at that. It all depends on how you interpret it though. Not all Muslims are bad and I don't know enough about the religion. But, actions speak a lot louder than words.

Same goes with Torah and Bible. It all depends on how you interpret the text. After all, all those books are are a bunch of cryptic text. What you are speaking of, submitting people to the will of God, it has been done before, since the dawn of time. I guess recently we had Christians with the whole Crusades and Inquisition, and Muslims have had their Jihad which continues to a certain extent. It always seems as Jews just couldn't find a time for themselves.

My point is, the problem does not lie in a religion but in the person who interprets it because that's the one who you'll listen to for the correct interpretation. Right now you simply happen to have more radical Islamic Imams than zealot Zionist Jewish Rabbis.

I personally have a huge issue with any organized religion so fanatics like that just add up to it. If not for organized religions, with figureheads on top preaching their "interpretation" of a particular "holy text", we wouldn't have 95% of all the wars that happened in the human history.

Daemonicus

12-07-2008, 06:59 AM

Everyone always talk about these fascist muslims are a minority in the faith, yet the majority never speak out against the atrocities commited in the name of their god.

Huh? What are they supposed to do, all gather up at some fucking park and yell "We are against the atrocities committed by them fanatics!"? What kind of an argument is that?

Beorg

12-07-2008, 06:59 AM

Which is exactly why I put my money on Israel. That, and they have one of the best tanks ever to grace the world.

And one of the best armies, not to mention.

A friend was telling me how he used to train with Israeli-soldiers, and gave me some insight as to how they operate, and honestly I believe them to be the best-trained soldiers since the Spartans.

Daemonicus

12-07-2008, 07:04 AM

And one of the best armies, not to mention.

A friend was telling me how he used to train with Israeli-soldiers, and gave me some insight as to how they operate, and honestly I believe them to be the best-trained soldiers since the Spartans.

They are very well trained in hand-to-hand combat. Afterall, that is exactly where Krav Maga came from.

Although, in a fight I'd probably put my money on a well trained Specnaz commando instead of Isreali.

Kidgard

12-07-2008, 07:06 AM

Everyone always talk about these fascist muslims are a minority in the faith, yet the majority never speak out against the atrocities commited in the name of their god.

Fascist Muslims aren't exactly a minority. The extremists themselves may be, but the sympathizers and anti-westernization views, in my opinion qualify them as fascists. I do hear ya though. Even in the Torah we brutally slaughtered the Canaanites and took over Palestine. Unfortunately, in all religions people distort things to their own likings. As a Jew though, I can't offhand think of anything we've done too bad in the name of our ideaology. You could argue what we've been doing to the Palestinians is bad, and I would have to agree to an extent. Indeed, some land was stolen by Ben Gurion from Palestinians and there was a Palestinian exodus. Maybe we did do wrong.

The outcome now though is to wipe Israel off the face of the earth and kill the Jews. That really is the Palestinian perspective. Go into Shatila and see what they're teaching kids. Indeed, we may be wrong to persecute them now - but Palestinians wont live in compliance with a Jewish state and for the most part, they are unforgiving and hateful of the Jews, particularly the Israelis. As for Christianity, don't get me started on what a fallacy it is to worship another human being when the very book that human taught from spoke against the worship of human beings and idols. I won't say Christianity is pathetic and wrong, because not all Christians believe Jesus to be God himself. The way I understand it though, Abrahamic religion is ultimatley about understanding God and spreading love and compassion. Christians, Jews, and Muslims get things wrong all alike. Just remember though, just because someone does something in the name of God, does not mean that they will be rewarded by God.

Gaal

12-07-2008, 07:06 AM

Huh? What are they supposed to do, all gather up at some fucking park and yell "We are against the atrocities committed by them fanatics!"? What kind of an argument is that?

Because it shows that all muslim's either don't give a shit or are secretly fascist assholes themselves.

Daemonicus

12-07-2008, 07:13 AM

Because it shows that all muslim's either don't give a shit or are secretly fascist assholes themselves.

It could also show that you are an ignorant who blindly follows the idiot sheep crowd who thinks that Muslims are all evil and with a secret agenda. If you actually learned the history you'd know that Islam is just another religion, with an extremely rich history, which happens to have quiet a bit religious fanatics nowdays. Mind that Christians have been basically the same through the history as radical Muslims are today. It's funny to hear Christians bitch about Muslims when they did the same shit if not worst during the Middle Ages with all the Crusades. Christians even had their own Taliban regime during the Inquisition.

Don't be ignorant.

Gaal

12-07-2008, 07:21 AM

It could also show that you are an ignorant who blindly follows the idiot sheep crowd who thinks that Muslims are all evil and with a secret agenda. If you actually learned the history you'd know that Islam is just another religion, with an extremely rich history, which happens to have quiet a bit religious fanatics nowdays. Mind that Christians have been basically the same through the history as radical Muslims are today. It's funny to hear Christians bitch about Muslims when they did the same shit if not worst during the Middle Ages with all the Crusades. Christians even had their own Taliban regime during the Inquisition.

Don't be ignorant.

Who the fuck cares what christains did in the fucking 13th century; It doesn't justify what those muslims are doing now does it? I'm perfectly aware of other atrocities commited in the name of other gods but guess what dipshit? We're not talking about them are we?

So stfu and let the grow-ups have their discussion.

Toxic Waste

12-07-2008, 07:21 AM

Don't be ignorant.

Yeah. Don' be ignernt.

Stark

12-07-2008, 07:23 AM

The problem is though, Obama wants to talk diplomacy with Iran and Palestinians.

Firstly, he recanted that. Secondly, Bush said he didn't want to police the globe. Look where that lead.

Kidgard

12-07-2008, 07:25 AM

It could also show that you are an ignorant who blindly follows the idiot sheep crowd who thinks that Muslims are all evil and with a secret agenda. If you actually learned the history you'd know that Islam is just another religion, with an extremely rich history, which happens to have quiet a bit religious fanatics nowdays. Mind that Christians have been basically the same through the history as radical Muslims are today. It's funny to hear Christians bitch about Muslims when they did the same shit if not worst during the Middle Ages with all the Crusades. Christians even had their own Taliban regime during the Inquisition.

Don't be ignorant.

It does all depend on how you interpret things. But if you know your history as well, you'll realize that the Koran is a complete break from Torah. Completley twisted around. Torah teaches Abraham was to sacrifice Isaac, the Muslims believe it was Ishmael. Despite Genesis distinctly stating that it was Isaac, they said that a text was altered or missing. Islam is a complete distortion of the Torah and everything Abraham had hoped to achieve. I don't agree with all the various translations of the modern day bible (KJV, NIV, etc) but at least they don't so drastically change the story. I think Islam is a false religion personally, although I don't deny there are good people in it.

Daemonicus

12-07-2008, 07:26 AM

Who the fuck cares what christains did in the fucking 13th century; It doesn't justify what those muslims are doing now does it? I'm perfectly aware of other atrocities commited in the name of other gods but guess what dipshit? We're not talking about them are we?

So stfu and let the grow-ups have their discussion.

That's what I'm trying to do. Now would you mind going back to the kids room and continue playing dress up dolls?

Man you are a moron. Yes, all Muslims are evil and they have a secret agenda to rape and pillage you. Maybe if you weren't a 7 year old mentally challenged orangutan you'd realize that today's Muslim extremism is nothing new and it only reflects a very minor portion of the total Muslim population of the world. If you haven't noticed, there are only few same groups behind those attacks. But anyways, a little boy as yourself would never be able to understand that so I won't get into details.

Gaal

12-07-2008, 07:32 AM

That's what I'm trying to do. Now would you mind going back to the kids room and continue playing dress up dolls?

Man you are a moron. Yes, all Muslims are evil and they have a secret agenda to rape and pillage you. Maybe if you weren't a 7 year old mentally challenged orangutan you'd realize that today's Muslim extremism is nothing new and it only reflects a very minor portion of the total Muslim population of the world. If you haven't noticed, there are only few same groups behind those attacks. But anyways, a little boy as yourself would never be able to understand that so I won't get into details.

I like how you call me a moron and have yet to disprove or even make any good points against my arguments.

Kidgard

12-07-2008, 07:34 AM

Firstly, he recanted that. Secondly, Bush said he didn't want to police the globe. Look where that lead.

Hamas invited him to a peace chat just last month. When did this recant of peace talk and diplomacy happen? As far as I know, he claims to want to make peace in the middle east.

alfaroverall

12-07-2008, 07:35 AM

Ehh, I feel safe in Israel for the most part. Unless the Palestinians rioted and went on a genocidal killing spree (not that they already haven't tried to some extent), I wouldn't worry that much. It's gonna happen, Israel is gonna bomb Iran. No doubt about that. But, if Iran bombs Israel they risk killing a lot of Palestinians. That would really tick off the Arabs. Comparatively speaking though, there's a lot more murders in a city of America than there are terrorist victims.
No Arabs give a fuck about the Palestinians, where did you get that idea? They're the <racial slur deleted> of the Middle East.

Yasmira

12-07-2008, 07:36 AM

How many wars has America started in the last 50 years? How many countries has it fucked up in the Middle East and South America assassinating democratically elected leaders and selling the people's countries to a small group of dictators in American pockets. Stop with your Fox news rhetoric. The American people are directly responsible because America is supposedly a democracy. Every crime committed by the American government is also on the American people. The beauty of dictatorship is that it is not the will of the people. If America's people were not so engrossed in the next episode of Heroes, maybe they would have done something to prevent the massacres. But they didn't, so the blame is on them. But I am not as ignorant as you are to call for the entire destruction of America and its people because their actions are bad. Their ideals though how perverted they have become are not to blame but the people acting on a terrible interpretation.

Israel is a racist apartheid regime that needs to be removed. The Hebrew people that have been living there for thousands of years have never had a problem with the Arabs. It was not until European Ashkenzis stole the land that Jews and Muslims because somewhat enemies. There is a genocide going on in Israel but the world turns a blind eye. You cannot blame a people fighting to take back their homes they have been living on for hundreds of years. Israel has these people walled off in ghettos that are the most crowded places on Earth. They live in poverty. Checkpoints where you are turned away for the day because the soldiers feel like it remind them daily of their humiliation and make getting to work impossible. There are shootings and aerial attacks by Israel on their streets. Gasoline, electricity, and food are held at ransom by Israel. Just recently Israel refused 15 trucks of medicine from entering the Gaza strip. Racist Jews settlers attack Palestinian children. Hamas has repeatedly offered truces. Israel arrests their parliment members. The Arab countries have offered a full recognition of they will go back to the pre-war borders and give back East Jerusalem which is entirely Muslim for the most part or to make the city internationally neutral.
Throwing rocks does not mean you can shoot bullets back and call it fair retaliation.

Ahmedinejad never said to wipe Israel off the map. Stop with your lies. The Farsi he used would be more accurately translated as 'Israel will fade from the pages of history'. Ahmadinejad has called for an election involving non-immigrant Jews, Christians, and Muslims to determine their own government.

Iran's army is not too shabby. Russia will step in I hope. They have been increasingly stepping up their rhetoric against American imperialism. China won't.

Obama is as bad as the rest of the Jew-owned appointed electees. Don't think differently.

Condemning an entire philosophy and religion based on the few is ignorant. Calling for the death of so many is even worse. Shall I call for the extermination of Christianity because of the "God Hates Fags" group?

There is a reason why most of the world hates America. Ever stop and think you might deserve it? Read up on America's history just in the last 50 years and see what the CIA has done to these 'third-world' countries.

Daemonicus

12-07-2008, 07:37 AM

It does all depend on how you interpret things. But if you know your history as well, you'll realize that the Koran is a complete break from Torah. Completley twisted around. Torah teaches Abraham was to sacrifice Isaac, the Muslims believe it was Ishmael. Despite Genesis distinctly stating that it was Isaac, they said that a text was altered or missing. Islam is a complete distortion of the Torah and everything Abraham had hoped to achieve. I don't agree with all the various translations of the modern day bible (KJV, NIV, etc) but at least they don't so drastically change the story. I think Islam is a false religion personally, although I don't deny there are good people in it.

Yes, it's a book, with cryptic stories. That's why it's not so hard to change the interpretation of it and write a new "holy text" with that new interpretation. That's one of the reasons why I hate organized religions and all the stupid "holy texts" because eventually you get someone arguing who's book is more holy and correct.

No shit Muslims and Jews are bickering at each other so much. You always make problems out of nothing. "OMG MY BOOK IS MORE CORRECT!!! YOU STOLE MY TEXT AND CHANGED IT!!!" It's a fucking book, a collection of sheets of papers or scrolls with text on it, nothing else. You have your book, he has his, stop the idiotic fighting.

We are discussing people, not books. An overwhelming majority of Muslims are not extremists. They simply want to live their lives according to their religious guides along everyone else. Just as majority of Jews, Christians, Hindu, Buddhists and the rest do, they just want to live their lives.

Kidgard

12-07-2008, 07:38 AM

I like how you call me a moron and have yet to disprove or even make any good points against my arguments.

He did have a good point. Christians were pretty savage though. Not all Muslims are evil, but I think you all should look at what it teaches. I don't make the judgment entirely. Just considering the history and my non-literalist view of interpretation on Torah, I think Islam is a complete crock of shit. I could be wrong, though.

Daemonicus

12-07-2008, 07:39 AM

I like how you call me a moron and have yet to disprove or even make any good points against my arguments.

What arguments? You saying that all Muslims are evil and they have a s3cr3t agenda to take over the world?

Yes, you are correct, I have no good arguments against that.

How is the tinfoil hat working out for you?

Gaal

12-07-2008, 07:41 AM

What arguments? You saying that all Muslims are evil and they have a s3cr3t agenda to take over the world?

Yes, you are correct, I have no good arguments against that.

How is the tinfoil hat working out for you?

Oh really? I said that did I? I can't seem to recall, care to quote?

He did have a good point. Christians were pretty savage though. Not all Muslims are evil, but I think you all should look at what it teaches. I don't make the judgment entirely. Just considering the history and my non-literalist view of interpretation on Torah, I think Islam is a complete crock of shit. I could be wrong, though.

Ya but we're talking about Islam not christianity.
Furthermore, I think all religion is bullshit.

Daemonicus

12-07-2008, 07:44 AM

Oh really? I said that did I? I can't seem to recall, care to quote?

Sorry, I don't feel like looking through this thread and quoting everything you said so far. Everyone who has read the thread already knows it anyways :)

Hey watch out, there is a Muslim behind you trying to kill you!

acrb101

12-07-2008, 07:45 AM

I like Isreal better because of Ziva David on NCIS.

Gaal

12-07-2008, 07:50 AM

Sorry, I don't feel like looking through this thread and quoting everything you said so far. Everyone who has read the thread already knows it anyways :)

Hey watch out, there is a Muslim behind you trying to kill you!

You're an idiot if you think I believe all muslims want to rape and pillage the world. Its all the same with you hippy fucktards, as soon as someone says something bad about Islam you automatically assume that they're ignorant bigots who think every muslim has a bomb strapped to their chest ready to take out as many "infedels" as possible.

You're a blind fool if you don't think there is something seriously wrong with the so-called "religion of peace".

rockyraccoon

12-07-2008, 07:55 AM

the best peace plan is for the countries to get together and attack canada.

Stark

12-07-2008, 07:57 AM

Hamas invited him to a peace chat just last month. When did this recant of peace talk and diplomacy happen? As far as I know, he claims to want to make peace in the middle east.

Did he speak to Hamas? Has he spoken to Iran?

Kidgard

12-07-2008, 07:57 AM

Yes, it's a book, with cryptic stories. That's why it's not so hard to change the interpretation of it and write a new "holy text" with that new interpretation. That's one of the reasons why I hate organized religions and all the stupid "holy texts" because eventually you get someone arguing who's book is more holy and correct.

No shit Muslims and Jews are bickering at each other so much. You always make problems out of nothing. "OMG MY BOOK IS MORE CORRECT!!! YOU STOLE MY TEXT AND CHANGED IT!!!" It's a fucking book, a collection of sheets of papers or scrolls with text on it, nothing else. You have your book, he has his, stop the idiotic fighting.

We are discussing people, not books. An overwhelming majority of Muslims are not extremists. They simply want to live their lives according to their religious guides along everyone else. Just as majority of Jews, Christians, Hindu, Buddhists and the rest do, they just want to live their lives.

I agree with you somewhat. I'm making the assumption that you're an atheist, or at least secular enough to keep any religion out of your daily lives. But, it really comes down to what they believe in. This isn't just a question of land, this is a holy war. The Jews and Christians didn't call it. The Muslims did. It's a holy war on all the Judaic-Christian values you were raised on, whether you're secular or not. There views of Koran greatly conflict with what we believe in. Koran teaches submission to the will of God. Not that there's anything wrong with it, but if you're gonna rewrite the whole entire Torah and add some more chapters and claim, "You're wrong even though our religion is entirely based on yours and yours was around for atleast a good three or four thousand years before hand," then obviously something is fucked up about that picture.

I'll quote Ahmadinejad for you:

Our dear Imam (referring to Ayatollah Khomeini (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayatollah_Khomeini)) said that the occupying regime must be wiped off the map and this was a very wise statement. We cannot compromise over the issue of Palestine. Is it possible to create a new front in the heart of an old front. This would be a defeat and whoever accepts the legitimacy of this regime has in fact, signed the defeat of the Islamic world. Our dear Imam targeted the heart of the world oppressor in his struggle, meaning the occupying regime. I have no doubt that the new wave that has started in Palestine, and we witness it in the Islamic world too, will eliminate this disgraceful stain from the Islamic world.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad_and_Israel#cite_note-r26-1)

See, the thing is, Ayatollah Khomeini is largely a hero to Muslim reformists. Islam, like I said before, is in need of a renaissance. Can't you see, it's more than just a feud over land and peoples individual beliefs. It's a common cause. Muslims, do in fact religiously hate the Jews in those parts. Although it really is silly, "Our book is better than yours!" It really is a deep seeded religious hatred of westernization and Judaism. For Israel it is not a question of religious creed though. Israel is actually, believe it or not, a secular state. It's a right for survival. Everyone has tried to kill the Jews and lots of people still hate them or stigmatize them. Israel has to do what it has to. And if Islam is an enemy of the Jews, it'll be flattened.

Stark

12-07-2008, 08:02 AM

The Jews and Christians didn't call it. The Muslims did.

Really? When Israeli terrorists murdered and slaughtered whole unarmed villages, and cut open the wombs of pregnant Palestinians they didn't start it? When they encroached into the Lebanon and began a war with Egypt, they didn't start it? When American Christians supplied Iran and Iraq with firearms to combat each other, and then invaded Iraq, twice, they didn't call it? Or when the Israeli Mossad and CIA massacred 26,000 people in Iran and displaced the rightful ruler and instilled a puppet regime, they didn't call it?

Interesting. Very interesting.

Kidgard

12-07-2008, 08:26 AM

Really? When Israeli terrorists murdered and slaughtered whole unarmed villages, and cut open the wombs of pregnant Palestinians they didn't start it? When they encroached into the Lebanon and began a war with Egypt, they didn't start it? When American Christians supplied Iran and Iraq with firearms to combat each other, and then invaded Iraq, twice, they didn't call it? Or when the Israeli Mossad and CIA massacred 26,000 people in Iran and displaced the rightful ruler and instilled a puppet regime, they didn't call it?

Interesting. Very interesting.

Better believe we didn't call it. We didn't say we're going to wipe Egypt off the face of the earth. Israel doesn't fail to recognize Egypt or any other countries as not being countries. I'm not saying that the treatment of Palestinians is fair. I never said that. And Yasmira is right, there were no problems between Muslims and Jews until land was stolen from the Palestinians. The hatred is deep seeded on both sides, I will admit. And it's shameful. Israel has done wrong in some cases. It's done some wrong things. Besides, maybe Egypt shouldn't of shut the Suez and Jordan shouldn't of tried to make the sea of Galilee go dry, ever think of that? Israel tends to make pre-emptive strikes. Believe me, if we could get rid of the tensions between the middle east without losing Israel as a country, we would.

My father was telling me when he was in Israel, he'd gone into a tile laying place to get a job. He was an American Christian and this is in the 80's by the way. He got manager the first day without any experience in tiling. Yet hardworking Palestinians were still stuck with menial pay and status despite their expertise. Anyways, he got to know them a bit and thought they were overall decent people. But one day one of his employees didn't come in. In fact, he didn't come in for a couple days.

It turns out that his neice or something like that was on a school bus coming to school and one of the Palestinian boys threw rocks and an IDF vehicle. So, their army pulled over the bus, got everyone out, took the kids adresses, and came to every one on the buses houses, evacuated the families, and demolished them. They'd been living there for hundreds of years. So, he had to help his brothers entire family move in. I know it's fucked up over there. It's because some corrupt officials decide to take things out of hand. It always has been that way. They do have hate of Israel within reason, I understand that to an extent. But, go into a Palestinian refugee camp and see how you're treated. See what it is. They train their kids to kill Israelis and to be hateful of Jews from age one. As soon as they're walking they'll teach them to use a gun. They're taught that the Jews are evil and should be WIPED OUT. I'm not saying either side is necessarily right in how we handle this, but if they want to call Jihad on us and do suicide bombings, then they can stay in their ghettos.

Daemonicus

12-07-2008, 08:30 AM

You're an idiot if you think I believe all muslims want to rape and pillage the world. Its all the same with you hippy fucktards, as soon as someone says something bad about Islam you automatically assume that they're ignorant bigots who think every muslim has a bomb strapped to their chest ready to take out as many "infedels" as possible.

You're a blind fool if you don't think there is something seriously wrong with the so-called "religion of peace".

Me hippy? I don't know what's hippy about me besides my pot smoking habits.

Yes, I do have a problem with Islam, just as much I have a problem with Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism and even Buddhism along with every other organized religion. I hate the concept of religion, period.

You are the one who said:

Everyone always talk about these fascist muslims are a minority in the faith, yet the majority never speak out against the atrocities commited in the name of their god.
and
Because it shows that all muslim's either don't give a shit or are secretly fascist assholes themselves.

That suggests you believe that a majority of Muslims have some sort of a hidden agenda to fight the world in the name of God. Care to dispute what you wrote above? That said, you are ignorant for thinking so. Majority of Muslims are peaceful and want to peacefully live along side everyone else, including Christians and Jews. What is true is that there is a small portion of Muslims, lead by radical Imams, who are committing atrocities in the name of Allah. Again, there is only a small number of them, and those are willing or blind enough to follow certain very few individuals who preach THEIR interpretation of Koran.

Gaal

12-07-2008, 08:34 AM

That suggests you believe that a majority of Muslims have some sort of a hidden agenda to fight the world in the name of God. Care to dispute what you wrote above? That said, you are ignorant for thinking so. Majority of Muslims are peaceful and want to peacefully live along side everyone else, including Christians and Jews. What is true is that there is a small portion of Muslims, lead by radical Imams, who are committing atrocities in the name of Allah. Again, there is only a small number of them, and those are willing or blind enough to follow certain very few individuals who preach THEIR interpretation of Koran.

If thats true then whats this so-called majorities reason for staying so indifferent to the pollution and corruption of their religion?

Furthermore, if you agree there is something wrong with that religion, then what are we even arguing about?

Daemonicus

12-07-2008, 08:40 AM

If thats true then whats this so-called majorities reason for staying so indifferent to the pollution and corruption of their religion?

What the hell do you mean they are indifferent? Pretty much whole Muslim world has denounced Osama, Al Qaeda, Hamas, etc and all the radicals and their organizations. They are against it. What else are a bunch of civilians living their life around the world supposed to do? What is your suggestion?

They follow THEIR religion, what radicals do is not considered THEIR religion. Again, understand that religious leaders are the ones who INTERPRET the holy texts, meaning, the text has no value until it is properly interpreted by a recognized religious figure. That's why you have splits in Christianity as well as Islam. Sunni Muslims have a different interpretation of Koran than Shiite Muslims. Catholics have a different interpretation of the Bible than Protestants. Get it? Should Catholics, for example, be responsible for criminal acts of some rouge Protestant group?

Furthermore, if you agree there is something wrong with that religion, then what are we even arguing about?

There is as much wrong with Islam as with every religion. I don't go around stereotyping entire religious groups because of a small group of individuals doing stupid shit. It'd be stupid and ignorant of me to do so.

Bissen

12-07-2008, 08:51 AM

Hmmm. While I will admit you have your point, as a somewhat secular Jew I don't exactly see Israel as an entirely fanatic nation. Certainly, it does have some blood on its hands, how some of the Israelis stole land from them.

Yes. Way to show the world you were treated unfair throughout history. GG invasion.

Peace keepers at work: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8yKFKao0sI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1I8i0-hb818

You're exactly as fanatical and douche as the Iranians

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ui9ykCUpQKo

But, Palestine was controlled by the British anyways and how many years has it been since Palestine was actually sovereign and controlled by the Palestinians?
Lulz! It was thousand of years since you previously had the territory.

Also. Wtf do you all have to look the same? Idiocracy.

Kuri

12-07-2008, 09:10 AM

Let them go to war and get it over with, to much drama and bullshit.

It has been happening for 100's of years befor, why have nukes not let it happen now.

Desperado[1G]

12-07-2008, 09:14 AM

It's high time we let Israel off the leash and let them defend themselves. There's been far too much bitching and moaning and less decisive action.

Might makes right, motherfuckers.

Daemonicus

12-07-2008, 09:15 AM

Let them go to war and get it over with, to much drama and bullshit.

It has been happening for 100's of years befor, why have nukes not let it happen now.

One nuke would lead to all of them flying.

Kuri

12-07-2008, 09:19 AM

One nuke would lead to all of them flying.

No one country no matter how crazy would agree to M.A.D. Even if one nuke did fly I'd bet no more would.

And if more did,.. we already have the Anti Missle Defense Grid across some of Europe and all of N. American would keep us safe, we allready proved shooting down radioactive material didn't hurt anyone.

Daemonicus

12-07-2008, 09:21 AM

No one country no matter how crazy would agree to M.A.D. Even if one nuke did fly I'd bet no more would.

And if more did,.. we already have the Anti Missle Defense Grid across some of Europe and all of N. American would keep us safe, we allready proved shooting down radioactive material didn't hurt anyone.

If you think those missile systems are functional then good luck.

Bissen

12-07-2008, 09:21 AM

Jewish tough guy squad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MgGtIWJoPc

Bissen

12-07-2008, 09:22 AM

;2088995']It's high time we let Israel off the leash and let them defend themselves. There's been far too much bitching and moaning and less decisive action.

Might makes right, motherfuckers.

Off the leash? They own you lulz. The biggest lobby in your fucked up corrupt political system.
Don't forget where the jew in jewelry comes from.

Kuri

12-07-2008, 09:24 AM

If you think those missile systems are functional then good luck.

Eh if they don't work who gives a fuck, we'll all be dead in a blink of an eye.

Daemonicus

12-07-2008, 09:29 AM

Eh if they don't work who gives a fuck, we'll all be dead in a blink of an eye.

That's what I say, I'm not too worried either.

I live near LA, one of the primary nuclear targets because of our ports and naval weapons base around. If US gets hit, I'm gone in a blink of an eye as well. Nothing really to stress over.

Stark

12-07-2008, 09:29 AM

;2088995']It's high time we let Israel off the leash and let them defend themselves. There's been far too much bitching and moaning and less decisive action.

Might makes right, motherfuckers.

You do realize the kill ratio of Israeli/Palestinians is 8:1, right?

Daemonicus

12-07-2008, 09:32 AM

You do realize the kill ratio of Israeli/Palestinians is 8:1, right?

I think he was speaking of Iran, not Palestine.

Stark

12-07-2008, 09:35 AM

I think he was speaking of Iran, not Palestine.

Yes, and what I'm saying is they aren't on any damn leash.

Desperado[1G]

12-07-2008, 10:10 AM

You do realize the kill ratio of Israeli/Palestinians is 8:1, right?

Yea, because of suicide attacks against innocent civilians, not military casualties.

What I was saying is, is that without international pressure, Israel could easily implement whatever tactics they deem necessary for defending themselves.

Without that pressure, I would not be surprised to hear about them flattening large portions of the middle east, and rounding up the friends and family of known terrorist members.

It wouldn't be fair, and it wouldn't be pretty, but it would get the job done.

Stark

12-07-2008, 10:13 AM

;2089199']Yea, because of suicide attacks against innocent civilians, not military casualties.

What I was saying is, is that without international pressure, Israel could easily implement whatever tactics they deem necessary for defending themselves.

Without that pressure, I would not be surprised to hear about them flattening large portions of the middle east, and rounding up the friends and family of known terrorist members.

It wouldn't be fair, and it wouldn't be pretty, but it would get the job done.

?

No. Israelis kill Palestinians at a rate of 8 to 1.

Razel

12-07-2008, 10:26 AM

Dhig

12-07-2008, 11:00 AM

hope it happens soon and both wipe each other out, glass tables ftw.

I think more countries would join Iran for the purpose of razing Israel to the ground.
They have a big influence in the middle east.

Rimayven

12-07-2008, 12:21 PM

how many wars has america started in the last 50 years? How many countries has it fucked up in the middle east and south america assassinating democratically elected leaders and selling the people's countries to a small group of dictators in american pockets. Stop with your fox news rhetoric. The american people are directly responsible because america is supposedly a democracy. Every crime committed by the american government is also on the american people. The beauty of dictatorship is that it is not the will of the people. If america's people were not so engrossed in the next episode of heroes, maybe they would have done something to prevent the massacres. But they didn't, so the blame is on them. But i am not as ignorant as you are to call for the entire destruction of america and its people because their actions are bad. Their ideals though how perverted they have become are not to blame but the people acting on a terrible interpretation.

Israel is a racist apartheid regime that needs to be removed. The hebrew people that have been living there for thousands of years have never had a problem with the arabs. It was not until european ashkenzis stole the land that jews and muslims because somewhat enemies. There is a genocide going on in israel but the world turns a blind eye. You cannot blame a people fighting to take back their homes they have been living on for hundreds of years. Israel has these people walled off in ghettos that are the most crowded places on earth. They live in poverty. Checkpoints where you are turned away for the day because the soldiers feel like it remind them daily of their humiliation and make getting to work impossible. There are shootings and aerial attacks by israel on their streets. Gasoline, electricity, and food are held at ransom by israel. Just recently israel refused 15 trucks of medicine from entering the gaza strip. Racist jews settlers attack palestinian children. Hamas has repeatedly offered truces. Israel arrests their parliment members. The arab countries have offered a full recognition of they will go back to the pre-war borders and give back east jerusalem which is entirely muslim for the most part or to make the city internationally neutral.
Throwing rocks does not mean you can shoot bullets back and call it fair retaliation.

Ahmedinejad never said to wipe israel off the map. Stop with your lies. The farsi he used would be more accurately translated as 'israel will fade from the pages of history'. Ahmadinejad has called for an election involving non-immigrant jews, christians, and muslims to determine their own government.

Iran's army is not too shabby. Russia will step in i hope. They have been increasingly stepping up their rhetoric against american imperialism. China won't.

Obama is as bad as the rest of the jew-owned appointed electees. Don't think differently.

Condemning an entire philosophy and religion based on the few is ignorant. Calling for the death of so many is even worse. Shall i call for the extermination of christianity because of the "god hates fags" group?

There is a reason why most of the world hates america. Ever stop and think you might deserve it? Read up on america's history just in the last 50 years and see what the cia has done to these 'third-world' countries.

qft

Daemonicus

12-07-2008, 12:27 PM

So are you like Skree's imaginary alt girlfriend or something?

Niles

12-07-2008, 12:29 PM

I hope Israel burn.

Pcheez

12-07-2008, 12:30 PM

Heh, israel.

Britain's biggest fuckup in the last century, salvaged by the US and turned into a huge clusterfuck.

THe middle east doesnt need europe's trash, you can have your hardline jews back, keep the moderate ones in israel, perhaps it could thrive as a real nation instead of a trigger happy military one.

No nukes will fly, however open war with Iran is not improbably, Iran has made its disposition towards israel quite clear, and Israel is more than happy to respond to threats with unproportional force.

Niles

12-07-2008, 12:31 PM

Rimayven

12-07-2008, 12:31 PM

So are you like Skree's imaginary alt girlfriend or something?

lol

Pcheez

12-07-2008, 12:46 PM

We don't want the jews back.

It wasnt a request.

You broke it, you buy it.

Niles

12-07-2008, 01:28 PM

It wasnt a request.

You broke it, you buy it.

Just send them to America, Europe showed what it thinks of jews during WW2.

Toilet

12-07-2008, 03:22 PM

Toilet

12-07-2008, 03:23 PM

Yes. Way to show the world you were treated unfair throughout history. GG invasion.

Peace keepers at work: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8yKFKao0sI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1I8i0-hb818

You're exactly as fanatical and douche as the Iranians

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ui9ykCUpQKo

Lulz! It was thousand of years since you previously had the territory.

Also. Wtf do you all have to look the same? Idiocracy.

When will the libertarians come in and say these kids need a slap with da belt?

Fruitbasket

12-07-2008, 03:27 PM

Well as you now see, the middle east is a fun land, never know what may blow up!

Tharkon Fargor

12-07-2008, 03:33 PM

They better be able to avoid the S-300.

Ignotis

12-07-2008, 05:18 PM

Yes, I sure do!

1)Look at his voting record.
2)Look at his speeches to AIPAC.
3)Look at him pandering to Israel.
4)Look at his chief of staff.

If you think Obama panders to Israel, then you are a fool. Sorry, the republican party and the evangelical right are often on their knees and sucking off Israel. No matter what the change is in presidency, the U.S. will always give Israel ludicrous amounts of foreign aid. But the thing about McCain is he would have made sure on top of that we do everything to bend over backwards accomodating Israel, and being their attack dog. Obama being voted in is propably the best thing regarding this. Incase you haven't noticed, most liberals doubt the sincerity of Israel and wont paint it as a black and white thing, always painting the palestinians as ruthless terrorists is the right wing ideology. Of course, when you're a bible thumping conservative, the Hebrews having control of your "holy land" is bad but generally the lesser of two evils when it comes to the "vagrant terrorist muslims".

Stark

12-07-2008, 05:48 PM

If you think Obama panders to Israel, then you are a fool.

HAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Hahahahahahaha.......

Yasmira

12-07-2008, 06:37 PM

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/ Graphs and charts for the idiots

If this was happening anywhere else, it would be systematic genocide.

Ignotis

12-07-2008, 06:45 PM

HAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Hahahahahahaha.......

That's why Israel wanted McCain to win, right?

Lul, watch the news.

IthroZada

12-07-2008, 06:52 PM

I think I'll be the next Hitler.... I'm going to kill every Jew there is, and 1 clown.

kingpin

12-07-2008, 07:04 PM

i support israel in this one. someone has to keep those muslims and their world domination plans in check.

so no nukes for iran and even better, no military for muslim countries. we also somehow have to take the nuke away from pakistan or let india do it.

an attack in 2009 wouldn't surprise me.

Stark

12-07-2008, 07:09 PM

That's why Israel wanted McCain to win, right?

Lul, watch the news.

Lul, his chief of staff is the son of an Israeli terrorist that is militantly anti-Arab. Lul, his chief of staff is an Israeli dual citizen. Lul, the media was almost 100% pro Obama. Lul, the Jewish minority has a virtual monopoly on the mass media and the media is very much pro Israel. Lul, Obama pandered to Israel in his speeches. Lul, Obama gave pandering speeches to AIPAC.

Lul, read between the lines.

Bissen

12-07-2008, 08:02 PM

I think I'll be the next Hitler.... I'm going to kill every Jew there is, and 1 clown.

Why the clown?;)

Bash ftw

iluhaftw

12-07-2008, 08:34 PM

I think I'll be the next Hitler.... I'm going to kill every Jew there is, and 1 clown.

You sad little piace of shit talkingshit sad ***, I bet ur a fucking ginger kid with fuckin huge glasses sittin and masturabting on gay porn, no balls to even hurt someone, SHUT THE FUCK UP, brainwashed piace of shit, fucking sake sad fuck hope you fucking get assraped by some Jew-Jitsu dudes.

Ahh... I'm chilled now.

Stark

12-07-2008, 08:49 PM

SHUT THE FUCK UP, brainwashed piace of shit,

You. You shut the fuck up.

Bissen

12-07-2008, 09:10 PM

You sad little piace of shit talkingshit sad ***, I bet ur a fucking ginger kid with fuckin huge glasses sittin and masturabting on gay porn, no balls to even hurt someone, SHUT THE FUCK UP, brainwashed piace of shit, fucking sake sad fuck hope you fucking get assraped by some Jew-Jitsu dudes.

Ahh... I'm chilled now.

Welcome to a sarcasm joke from bash.org

Ohh and welcome to the internet. You just wrote all that with a bad temper for no reason what so fuckin ever. Gigidy gigidy goo.

Last but not least. Welcome to forumfall.

Toilet

12-07-2008, 09:52 PM

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/ Graphs and charts for the idiots

If this was happening anywhere else, it would be systematic genocide.

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/media/secret.html

Im fucking astounded.

Its Nazi Germany all over again.

Niles

12-07-2008, 10:03 PM

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/media/secret.html

Im fucking astounded.

Its Nazi Germany all over again.

That is bad how?

Toilet

12-07-2008, 10:06 PM

That is bad how?

Want to experience this?

“....without warning I began to vomit all over the room. At the same time I felt my legs buckled from the strain of standing and I passed out... I awoke on the floor to someone screaming, repeating my name over and over...

“As he screamed in my ears I felt his fingernails puncturing my skin, gouging, scraping and clawing at the tender flesh beneath my eyes. This was the intelligence officer's method for gauging my level of consciousness. No smelling salts as is the civilized manner for reviving a person. Clawing at my eyes and tearing the skin on my face proved his manner of rendering aid.

“Realizing I was again conscious, though barely, the Israeli broadened his assault, scooping my head and digging his nails in near the auditory nerves between my head and ear drum. Rather then render first aid, which is the protocol and international law in instances whether prisoners of war or civilians, the soldier broadened his assault. The pain became sharper as he dug his nails, two fingers at a time into my neck, grazing my carotid artery and again challenging my consciousness before pummeling my chest with his full weight and strength.

“I estimate I lay on the floor approximately one hour and twenty minutes and I continued to vomit for what seemed like a half hour. Severely dehydrated, focusing took flight and the room became a menagerie of pain, sound and terror. The stench further exasperated and seemed to inflame my captors further...

“All around me I heard Israeli voices and then one placed his combat boot on my neck pressing into the hard floor. I remember choking, feeling the outline of his shoe and in my increasing delirium thought for a moment perhaps someone was rendering aid. Reality destroyed that hope. Around me, like men watching a sporting match I heard laughing and goading, a gang rape of verbal and physical violence meted by men entrenched in hatred and rage... I again lost consciousness and awoke to find myself being dragged by my feet on my back through my vomit on the floor, my head bouncing on the pavement and body sweeping to-and-fro like a mop...”

....

I know there was sarcasm in your reply, but i wanted to post that anyway.

Niles

12-07-2008, 10:11 PM

I know there was sarcasm in your reply, but i wanted to post that anyway.

Ah, the jews are playing Nazi. Now I understand, we should nuke them back to the stone age.

Placebo

12-07-2008, 10:12 PM

Crusades and Crusades with Nuclear Weapons = fail. The best thing Israel and the US can do is lead a coalition through the UN and the AEA (Atomic Energy Agency) to monitor the nuclear weapons of the world and initiate a state of openness.

In theory this system would start by having the US, and soon after Russia, followed by UK/France/China/Israel/Indian/Pakistan/North Korea gather together and discuss future disarmament. This would establish a direct link, open to all foreign governments through the UN, which provides 24/7 monitoring of everyone who opts in's nuclear weapons (24/7 camera, stats, reports) etc.

Now once openness among the big two are achieved, the smaller countries will join in after the big two start to show they are serious and destroy proportional nuclear weapons. (So say US destroys 500 and Russia destroys 530).

After this point other countries who are holding nuclear weapons, primarily out of fear that the West holds them, will see we are serious about disarmament. However, we allow them to hold onto their nuclear weapons until we have lowered our amount in line with theirs.

Once the big powers have only roughly 300 nuclear weapons remaining, the nuclear countries meet again and establish a final destruction pact. This pact states that any country who refuses to join will be attacked by the combined power of those who do and their allies.

So in extent, If all of the nuclear powers except North Korea opt in and join the alliance, they and their allies would topple the NK government.

That would provide the force needed to show them that we are serious to disarm and will not tolerate nuclear weapons. From this point on, assuming everyone has joined the alliance and Iran opens up, everyone destroys their nuclear weapons one by one until there are none left.

To prevent future countries from developing them goes by the same standard as getting those who opt out to submit. All of the alliance contributes funds to the UN collective security force which would then deal out blows as necessary.

This theory would work because the reason countries are developing and keeping nuclear weapons is to counter the threat of the US / Russia and smaller countries. If Iraq DID have nuclear weapons it would not have been invaded. People build them for security.

So back on topic, for this Israel / Iran war to be prevented, we need the US and Russia to lead the way toward nuclear arms extinction and global alliances through the UN which would punish any belligerents. The world needs to move away from private military's and toward collective military's.

For this to happen we need a strong US commitment with a new president to show that we are serious, one who has the power to influence other nations. Obama could be that one, but the fact that he comes so soon after the Bush disaster means that everyone will be far too skeptical to believe him.

Sad.

Yobaj

12-07-2008, 10:22 PM

What I think you fail to realize is that you can't talk diplomacy with Palestinians. There will always continue to be an ongoing conflict as long as the Jews are in Israel and Israel is still Israel, not Palestine.

You don't know what you are talking about.
Most palestinians support a 2-state solution. But all the proposals from the Israelis have been idiotic and nobody would accept that.

Bissen

12-07-2008, 10:49 PM

You don't know what you are talking about.
Most palestinians support a 2-state solution. But all the proposals from the Israelis have been idiotic and nobody would accept that.

I agree. Fail Jew is fail. Don't you have some diamonds to cut?

Toilet

12-07-2008, 10:57 PM

I agree. Fail Jew is fail. If you can't fit on a ring, we need to cut you a little more.

Fixed for lulz.

heroshade

12-07-2008, 11:05 PM

Herosnipes changes my spoiler to say something even better.

BLOW THE SHIT OUT OF THE MOTHERFUCKING MIDDLE EAST!!!!!!!!!!

.

TubeSock

12-07-2008, 11:22 PM

I would agree that betting on the country that wtfpwnt 6 other countries the day after it was formed is a good idea

/thread.

This man knows his history.

Bissen

12-07-2008, 11:28 PM

/thread.

This man knows his history.

Weird that the thread decided to continue 80 posts after that was written huh?

nathanpinard

12-08-2008, 12:29 AM

The US is one of the main reason why Israel hasn't nuked Iran yet.

Mainly because if that nuke is launched, about 20 others will be too.

ejnomad07

12-08-2008, 12:32 AM

I have always liked how Israel handles the nations in the Middle East. Trying to talk to them is about pointless when they think their god wills it.

Daemonicus

12-08-2008, 12:32 AM

The US is one of the main reason why Israel hasn't nuked Iran yet.

Mainly because if that nuke is launched, about 20 others will be too.

20? You are underestimating the nuclear stockpiles of the world, which would all fly in such situation.

kingpin

12-08-2008, 12:35 AM

20? You are underestimating the nuclear stockpiles of the world, which would all fly in such situation.

no they wouldn't. you think anyone would want to have US nuke them for the shake of Iran?

Daemonicus

12-08-2008, 12:51 AM

no they wouldn't. you think anyone would want to have US nuke them for the shake of Iran?

Isreal won't nuke Iran or anyone. At most they'll strike Iran with conventional forces. One nuke hitting Iran means you have whole Middle East, which includes ALL Arab nations from Saudi Arabia to UAE, UN and most importantly Russia on your Isreali ass. That would only lead to more nukes flying. More nukes flying means someone else gets hurt, which becomes a major international conflict and we are all fucked.

Seriously, stop that nuclear scare. Nobody will drop nukes, unless they are suicidal and hate the humanity as the whole.

Shadowcreep

12-08-2008, 12:52 AM

The US is one of the main reason why Israel hasn't nuked Iran yet.

Actually, that would just prove to the world that they DO have nuclear weapons, which they're not going to admit or deny until they absolutely have to use them.

Pcheez

12-08-2008, 12:55 AM

I have always liked how Israel handles the nations in the Middle East. Trying to talk to them is about pointless when they think their god wills it.

That my good man is because you are an ignorant buffoon.

Stark

12-08-2008, 12:58 AM

I have always liked how Israel handles the nations in the Middle East. Trying to talk to them is about pointless when they think their god wills it.

They were the original terrorists, 1000x more extreme and gruesome than today's muslim terrorists. They would slaughter whole unarmed Palestinian villages, cut open the wombs of pregnant women and bomb innocent British soldiers.

Furthermore, why is it OK for Israel to be belligerent and make land grabs, but it wasn't ok for Saddam, and it wasn't ok for Germany?

kingpin

12-08-2008, 12:59 AM

Isreal won't nuke Iran or anyone. At most they'll strike Iran with conventional forces. One nuke hitting Iran means you have whole Middle East, which includes ALL Arab nations from Saudi Arabia to UAE, UN and most importantly Russia on your Isreali ass. That would only lead to more nukes flying. More nukes flying means someone else gets hurt, which becomes a major international conflict and we are all fucked.

Seriously, stop that nuclear scare. Nobody will drop nukes, unless they are suicidal and hate the humanity as the whole.

i didn't say they will use nukes, but noone ill nuke them back if they did. Russia and iran aren't exactly the best friends i don't see why would Russia risk a US retaliation or even israeli for the shake of Iran.

only pakistan has nukes and i am not sure they can reach israel. even so...both israel and pakistan will become a wasteland but most israelis live abroad and pakistan is many times larger, so who will lose more? :D

i say bomb Iran (only military, no innocent civilian casualties and infrastructure). no nukes for the crazy mullahs.

Daemonicus

12-08-2008, 01:00 AM

Daemonicus

12-08-2008, 01:02 AM

i didn't say they will use nukes, but noone ill nuke them back if they did. Russia and iran aren't exactly the best friends i don't see why would Russia risk a US retaliation or even israeli for the shake of Iran.

only pakistan has nukes and i am not sure they can reach israel. even so...both israel and pakistan will become a wasteland but most israelis live abroad and pakistan is many times larger, so who will lose more? :D

i say bomb Iran (only military, no innocent civilian casualties and infrastructure). no nukes for the crazy mullahs.

Nuclear weapons don't work like that. When one is dropped, everyone gets fucked, not just military. There is not such thing as a nuclear bomb explosion and no civil casualties. Such bomb IS meant to destroy BOTH military AND civilians.

Pcheez

12-08-2008, 01:04 AM

"Russia and Iran arent exactly best friends"

DING DING DING, Incorrect.

Try again.

kingpin

12-08-2008, 01:06 AM

They were the original terrorists, 1000x more extreme and gruesome than today's muslim terrorists. They would slaughter whole unarmed Palestinian villages, cut open the wombs of pregnant women and bomb innocent British soldiers.

Furthermore, why is it OK for Israel to be belligerent and make land grabs, but it wasn't ok for Saddam, and it wasn't ok for Germany?

how the hell you think all of the middle east became muslim? because everyone accepted the peaceful nature of islam? don't make me laugh. islam was spread by the sword, everything it is, is because of killing, land grabbing, forced convertion etc. it's only fair they suffer the same shit.

yes yes i know we live in the 21st century, but they don't.

israelis were there first and imo have way less land than what they should have. and now they have a crazy mullah threatening them with annihilation? i say bomb the fucker.

kingpin

12-08-2008, 01:07 AM

Nuclear weapons don't work like that. When one is dropped, everyone gets fucked, not just military. There is not such thing as a nuclear bomb explosion and no civil casualties. Such bomb IS meant to destroy BOTH military AND civilians.

no i meant conventional bombing in that case :D

kingpin

12-08-2008, 01:09 AM

"Russia and Iran arent exactly best friends"

DING DING DING, Incorrect.

Try again.

they aren't. Russia just takes advantage of their feud with the west and sucks their blood. same with china.

Pcheez

12-08-2008, 01:11 AM

how the hell you think all of the middle east became muslim? because everyone accepted the peaceful nature of islam? don't make me laugh. islam was spread by the sword, everything it is, is because of killing, land grabbing, forced convertion etc. it's only fair they suffer the same shit.

yes yes i know we live in the 21st century, but they don't.

israelis were there first and imo have way less land than what they should have. and now they have a crazy mullah threatening them with annihilation? i say bomb the fucker.

Way less land than they should have ?

Those cocksuckers should be driven back into the sea.

Are you suggesting they grab MORE land while massacring the original inhabitants ?

You cannot possibly be serious.

Stark

12-08-2008, 01:13 AM

how the hell you think all of the middle east became muslim? because everyone accepted the peaceful nature of islam? don't make me laugh. islam was spread by the sword, everything it is, is because of killing, land grabbing, forced convertion etc. it's only fair they suffer the same shit.

yes yes i know we live in the 21st century, but they don't.

israelis were there first and imo have way less land than what they should have. and now they have a crazy mullah threatening them with annihilation? i say bomb the fucker.

You're comparing what happened 1300 hundred years ago with what happened 60 years ago. And yes, they do live in the 21st century and are every bit as modern as Israel.

No, Israelis were not the first there. Read Exodus. They went into Canaan and GENOCIDED the original inhabitants. Arabs and Christians have been living there peacefully for centuries.

Stark

12-08-2008, 01:15 AM

You can't explain that to Zionists.

It's THEIR promised land, period.

But then again, when have you not seen a Jew act arrogant? ;)

In Hollywood movies.

kingpin

12-08-2008, 01:16 AM

Way less land than they should have ?

Those cocksuckers should be driven back into the sea.

Are you suggesting they grab MORE land while massacring the original inhabitants ?

You cannot possibly be serious.

arabs took the land by force, israel is doing the same. let the best land grabber win.

Daemonicus

12-08-2008, 01:17 AM

they aren't. Russia just takes advantage of their feud with the west and sucks their blood. same with china.

That's why Russia is providing Iran and Syria with nuclear technology? Or could it be that Russia is a major exporter of oil from Iran? You know, that little black slimy shit that runs everything around you, from a car, tank, factory to a fighter jet.

Daemonicus

12-08-2008, 01:18 AM

arabs took the land by force, israel is doing the same. let the best land grabber win.

Americans took Indian land by force, should they do the same now?

Stark

12-08-2008, 01:18 AM

arabs took the land by force, israel is doing the same. let the best land grabber win.

They should do it without a single American or German dollar.

kingpin

12-08-2008, 01:25 AM

Americans took Indian land by force, should they do the same now?

they can't possibly do that, but if they could and would, i wouldn't hold it against them. if someone steals your house and car and kills your wife and kids, and you find him after 50 years and kick he ass, that's way less than what he deserves.

ejnomad07

12-08-2008, 01:25 AM

arabs took the land by force, israel is doing the same. let the best land grabber win.

I do believe the Islamics did steal that land a very long time ago, but the Jews were gifted that land from Great Britain if I remember correctly. They did not steal it for themselves.

Stark

12-08-2008, 01:25 AM

kingpin

12-08-2008, 01:27 AM

They should do it without a single American or German dollar.

agreed. but it's not like they beg for the help, they give it gladly to them. so it's the american and german government you should focus your blame not israelis, they just look after themselves, you can't blame them for that.

Pcheez

12-08-2008, 01:28 AM

arabs took the land by force, israel is doing the same. let the best land grabber win.

If we could get our shit together and stop backstabbing one another, Israel would be razed quite rapidly.

Now i dont really want to see israel razed to the ground, no i want to see it a wealthy and prosperous nation that coexists peacefully with its neighbours and sets up lucrative trade routes.... or you know they can keep being the reason for the middle east's instability.

Daemonicus

12-08-2008, 01:28 AM

they can't possibly do that, but if they could and would, i wouldn't hold it against them. if someone steals your house and car and kills your wife and kids, and you find him after 50 years and kick he ass, that's way less than what he deserves.

I'm sure Jerusalem was a home to some early cavemen, who's home was taken over by other cavemen. Should we trace back our genes and find out who first settled the region and give them the rights to it?

Jews didn't fight for Isreal, UN gave it to them.

kingpin

12-08-2008, 01:31 AM

I do believe the Islamics did steal that land a very long time ago, but the Jews were gifted that land from Great Britain if I remember correctly. They did not steal it for themselves.

indeed. so why blame israel that accepted a british plan? because they can't even touch GB that's why. "hey the dad is too strong, let's all hit the kid!". well the kid is way too strong now too, so tough luck.

Stark

12-08-2008, 01:31 AM

I do believe the Islamics did steal that land a very long time ago, but the Jews were gifted that land from Great Britain if I remember correctly. They did not steal it for themselves.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(group)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestine_war

They were not gifted. They received it through terrorism.

Pcheez

12-08-2008, 01:32 AM

Jews didn't fight for Isreal, UN gave it to them.

On a silver, motherfucking, platter.

The intention was to live alongside palestinians, not con them out of their lands then slaughter them.

ejnomad07

12-08-2008, 01:32 AM

If we could get our shit together and stop backstabbing one another, Israel would be razed quite rapidly.

Now i dont really want to see israel razed to the ground, no i want to see it a wealthy and prosperous nation that coexists peacefully with its neighbours and sets up lucrative trade routes.... or you know they can keep being the reason for the middle east's instability.

That's sorta hard to do when your neighbors refuse to recognize you as a country.

kingpin

12-08-2008, 01:34 AM

Can you explain to me why we went to war over Iraq grabbing Kuwait, which historically belonged to them, and goaded them on to grab it, but when Israel land grabs and genocides we pay them tribute of billions and billions annually?

ye like that's the only two faced policy of the US :D

that's just how foreign policy works. no fairness, just interests.

ejnomad07

12-08-2008, 01:34 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(group)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestine_war

They were not gifted. They received it through terrorism.

You do realize that all happened after they were a country yes? Not before they were granted their ancestral lands back.

Stark

12-08-2008, 01:35 AM

You do realize that all happened after they were a country yes? Not before they were granted their ancestral lands back.

Their terrorism was before.

ejnomad07

12-08-2008, 01:37 AM

Can you explain to me why we went to war over Iraq grabbing Kuwait, which historically belonged to them, and goaded them on to grab it, but when Israel land grabs and genocides we pay them tribute of billions and billions annually?

You argument does not hold water as Kuwait was at one time part of the Ottoman Empire not Iraq.

Stark

12-08-2008, 01:37 AM

ye like that's the only two faced policy of the US :D

that's just how foreign policy works. no fairness, just interests.

Cui bono?

Not America.

Daemonicus

12-08-2008, 01:39 AM

You do realize that all happened after they were a country yes? Not before they were granted their ancestral lands back.

What the fuck is ancestral land? Does that mean we should all return lands to who they belong to 2000 years ago? If that's the case, get your American ass out of your house and find yourself the nearest Native and give him the keys to it.

Fuck it, I want European land to be retorted to the way it was in 15th century. I want all of the former Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth lands be returned to the way they were, with Jagiellon Dynasty being reinstated as the national power.

Do it, after all it was Polish land in the 15th century, so it's still theirs, right?

Pcheez

12-08-2008, 01:40 AM

That's sorta hard to do when your neighbors refuse to recognize you as a country.

Immediate neighbours, Ie lebanon and Syria.

Egypt/Jordan etc have no beef with Israel and do recognize it.

All israel has to do is find a peaceful solution with both Syria and Lebanon, then they are set.

Protip: Massacring palestinians by the bakers dozen doesnt bode well for peace.

kingpin

12-08-2008, 01:41 AM

That's sorta hard to do when your neighbors refuse to recognize you as a country.

and threaten you with annihilation. :D

ejnomad07

12-08-2008, 01:43 AM

Their terrorism was before.

I think you forget it was the UN that came up with a plan for Jerusalem to be designated an international city. Jews would have been happy with this. It was Arabs that refused and started problems. You might find terrorist jewish organizations, but I sure can find plenty of Arab ones at the same time.

kingpin

12-08-2008, 01:44 AM

What the fuck is ancestral land? Does that mean we should all return lands to who they belong to 2000 years ago? If that's the case, get your American ass out of your house and find yourself the nearest Native and give him the keys to it.

Fuck it, I want European land to be retorted to the way it was in 15th century. I want all of the former Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth lands be returned to the way they were, with Jagiellon Dynasty being reinstated as the national power.

Do it, after all it was Polish land in the 15th century, so it's still theirs, right?

it's not exactly the same. in the case of israel i think it's fair for them to have a country there. a land that was taken away from them by force, is now taken back by force.

so i am not gonna pity the arabs for tasting their own medicine.

i judge each situation seperately!

Stark

12-08-2008, 01:44 AM

You do realize that all happened after they were a country yes? Not before they were granted their ancestral lands back.

Israelis are not the original inhabitants of that land. They genocided them.

Pcheez

12-08-2008, 01:45 AM

and threaten you with annihilation. :D

no the proper term was "wipe them off the map".

Israeli/US strike against Iran is highly unlikely as both nation have huge investments in Kuwait/UAE/KSA, which Iran is not on best of terms with, add to that they are Sunni countries while Iran is Shiite.

After Iran fires a volley or 298 at Israel, it will direct its retaliation to said countries.

And that keedz is how world wars start.

kingpin

12-08-2008, 01:46 AM

I think you forget it was the UN that came up with a plan for Jerusalem to be designated an international city. Jews would have been happy with this. It was Arabs that refused and started problems. You might find terrorist jewish organizations, but I sure can find plenty of Arab ones at the same time.

i saw an israeli polician once in tv, he said that they proposed to split the city in half, but they rejected it.

and now they lost even what they would have gained if they compromised back then.

greed is a bitch.

ejnomad07

12-08-2008, 01:48 AM

What the fuck is ancestral land? Does that mean we should all return lands to who they belong to 2000 years ago?

Ha no. I have no problem with forced takeovers. Jerusalem was still in the majority Jewish people. As it was gifted and at one time their land. I simply have no problem with them having it.

Daemonicus

12-08-2008, 01:49 AM

it's not exactly the same. in the case of israel i think it's fair for them to have a country there. a land that was taken away from them by force, is now taken back by force.

so i am not gonna pity the arabs for tasting their own medicine.

i judge each situation seperately!

For fucks sake, Native American lands were taken by force too. Land has been taken by force since the dawn of the time. Even Nazi's land was taken by force during WW2, does that mean they should get it back? Urnfield and Hallstatt groups took over the ancient Britain lands, should we return them to the people who built Stonehenge?

Sorry but your argument is idiotic.

Pcheez

12-08-2008, 01:49 AM

it's not exactly the same. in the case of israel i think it's fair for them to have a country there. a land that was taken away from them by force, is now taken back by force.

so i am not gonna pity the arabs for tasting their own medicine.

i judge each situation seperately!

:bang:

You are in no way nearly educated nor knowledgeable enough judge so much as an ant.

You are entitled to your opinion, even if its so ridiculously stupid.

Im done here, this guy has toned the caliber of this thread down to uneducated housewife level.

kingpin

12-08-2008, 01:52 AM

no the proper term was "wipe them off the map".

Israeli/US strike against Iran is highly unlikely as both nation have huge investments in Kuwait/UAE/KSA, which Iran is not on best of terms with, add to that they are Sunni countries while Iran is Shiite.

After Iran fires a volley or 298 at Israel, it will direct its retaliation to said countries.

And that keedz is how world wars start.

i think israel can afford a few airstrikes in iran's nuclear research facilities. i am not talking about an iraq kinda war, just air bombings.

no insurrections and stuff like that.

ejnomad07

12-08-2008, 01:52 AM

i saw an israeli polician once in tv, he said that they proposed to split the city in half, but they rejected it.

and now they lost even what they would have gained if they compromised back then.

greed is a bitch.

There have been more serious deals than just that. Lands have been offered. It's hard to deal with Arabs that refuse any deal short of complete control of everything and Israel's right to exist.

Jerusalem will always be a problem. Both sides want that city for religious reasons. The Jewish community was happy at one time to have the city governed by the world. Islamic people are not.

kingpin

12-08-2008, 01:54 AM

For fucks sake, Native American lands were taken by force too. Land has been taken by force since the dawn of the time. Even Nazi's land was taken by force during WW2, does that mean they should get it back? Urnfield and Hallstatt groups took over the ancient Britain lands, should we return them to the people who built Stonehenge?

Sorry but your argument is idiotic.

no but i agree with the poster above you. i have no problem with israel having it.

if it didn't already happen i wouldn't probably support it. but now i can't really blame them.

Stark

12-08-2008, 01:54 AM

i think israel can afford a few airstrikes in iran's nuclear research facilities. i am not talking about an iraq kinda war, just air bombings.

no insurrections and stuff like that.

Why's it okay for Israel to have nuclear weapons but Iran can't conduct research for nuclear energy?

Why would it be ok for Israel to attack Iran preemptively, and the US will not attack Israel for it. Yet, if Iran attacked Israel, and they have good reasons considering how belligerent Israel is being, the US would intervene and wipe Iran from the map?

You're a retarded Cohenservative.

Stark

12-08-2008, 01:55 AM

no but i agree with the poster above you. i have no problem with israel having it.

if it didn't already happen i wouldn't probably support it. but now i can't really blame them.

Yet you blame the arabs for conquering lands 1300 years ago.

Really.

Pcheez

12-08-2008, 01:56 AM

Cohenservative.

I see what you did there.

I approve

kingpin

12-08-2008, 01:56 AM

:bang:

You are in no way nearly educated nor knowledgeable enough judge so much as an ant.

You are entitled to your opinion, even if its so ridiculously stupid.

Im done here, this guy has toned the caliber of this thread down to uneducated housewife level.

if a random guy in an internet forum meant anything to me you would hurt my feelings.

ejnomad07

12-08-2008, 01:58 AM

Why's it okay for Israel to have nuclear weapons but Iran can't conduct research for nuclear energy?

Why would it be ok for Israel to attack Iran preemptively, and the US will not attack Israel for it. Yet, if Iran attacked Israel, and they have good reasons considering how belligerent Israel is being, the US would intervene and wipe Iran from the map?

You're a retarded Cohenservative.

I think it's okay for Iran to have it for power uses and I think Israel would be okay with this as well. Has Iran really stepped up to the plate and shown the world they just want to do this? The lack of honesty from Iran is the problem.

Daemonicus

12-08-2008, 01:58 AM

no but i agree with the poster above you. i have no problem with israel having it.

if it didn't already happen i wouldn't probably support it. but now i can't really blame them.

As Stark said, you have no problem with Isreal taking over but you do have a problem with Arabs doing the same earlier?

Daemonicus

12-08-2008, 02:00 AM

I think it's okay for Iran to have it for power uses and I think Israel would be okay with this as well. Has Iran really stepped up to the plate and shown the world they just want to do this? The lack of honesty from Iran is the problem.

Has Israel stepped up to the plate and shown the world what they have in their stockpile?

Oh right, it's ok for Isreal to have a secret and always denied nuclear program but it's not ok for anyone else.

I get it now.

kingpin

12-08-2008, 02:02 AM

Why's it okay for Israel to have nuclear weapons but Iran can't conduct research for nuclear energy?

Why would it be ok for Israel to attack Iran preemptively, and the US will not attack Israel for it. Yet, if Iran attacked Israel, and they have good reasons considering how belligerent Israel is being, the US would intervene and wipe Iran from the map?

You're a retarded Cohenservative.

i didn't say it's ok. if it was up to me, no country would have nukes. but they do and nobody is interested in dissarming them. so ye what you gonna do, protest about it? it's a jungle the strong are on top. and israel never threatened to wipe Iran of the map.

US and Israel are best buddies why would they ever attack a country that has the same policy with them? they are both against Iran not the other way around.

and i am NOT cohenservative!

kingpin

12-08-2008, 02:03 AM

Yet you blame the arabs for conquering lands 1300 years ago.

Really.

if israel didn't exist i wouldn't care, but since they are there now i am taking their side.

Daemonicus

12-08-2008, 02:04 AM

if israel didn't exist i wouldn't care, but since they are there now i am taking their side.

That's such educated reasoning there.

ejnomad07

12-08-2008, 02:06 AM

Has Israel stepped up to the plate and shown the world what they have in their stockpile?

Oh right, it's ok for Isreal to have a secret and always denied nuclear program but it's not ok for anyone else.

I get it now.

Israel having nuclear weapons is fact. We can't turn back the time table to stop this or the world would have. Once you have weapons of this nature it's too late to reverse it. It would be like trying to disarm Russia. We can stop future countries from having these weapons. The less that have them the less the risk of nuclear war.

Iran openly, explicitly and publicly threatens to wipe Israel off the map. I have yet to see such statements from Israel. All they want is to live in the little nick of the world not conquer Iran.

kingpin

12-08-2008, 02:06 AM

As Stark said, you have no problem with Isreal taking over but you do have a problem with Arabs doing the same earlier?

no it's just that the arabs did it first, so they shouldn't complain having the same treatment.

if israel makes a move against lands that have nothing to do with them i'll be against them.

Daemonicus

12-08-2008, 02:09 AM

Israel having nuclear weapons is fact. We can't turn back the time table to stop this or the world would have. Once you have weapons of this nature it's too late to reverse it. It would be like trying to disarm Russia. We can stop future countries from having these weapons. The less that have them the less the risk of nuclear war.

Iran openly, explicitly and publicly threatens to wipe Israel off the map. I have yet to see such statements from Israel. All they want is to live in the little nick of the world not conquer Iran.

How is that a fact? Isreal officially has no nuclear weapons program or weapons. It basically does the same thing if Iran is actually working on their nuclear weapons program. Isreal has not declared it's nuclear program just as Iran hasn't.

If it's a fact that Isreal has nuclear weapons program yet it denies it officially, then why can't Iran do the same?

Daemonicus

12-08-2008, 02:10 AM

no it's just that the arabs did it first, so they shouldn't complain having the same treatment.

if israel makes a move against lands that have nothing to do with them i'll be against them.

Using your own logic, you and Israel shouldn't be complaining about Arabs and Muslims fighting back for their land. Good that's settled, now stop complaining about Arabs blowing up Israeli since according to you it's all fine.

kingpin

12-08-2008, 02:13 AM

That's such educated reasoning there.

what do you want me to say? if someone brings 5 buddies of his and beats the crap out of you and send you to a hospital with a coma for 3 months, i wouldn't like for you to do the same to him. but if you did, i could live with it.

i can't explain it better.

ejnomad07

12-08-2008, 02:14 AM

How is that a fact? Isreal officially has no nuclear weapons program or weapons. It basically does the same thing if Iran is actually working on their nuclear weapons program. Isreal has not declared it's nuclear program just as Iran hasn't.

If it's a fact that Isreal has nuclear weapons program yet it denies it officially, then why can't Iran do the same?

Isreal has never confirmed they have them but neither have that ever come out and stated. "We don't have nuclear weapons" either. They have been shown via intel to possess nuclear weapons but have never introduced them. As in Nuclear Testing.

As Iran does not even possess them yet. It's a bit easier to stop them before it's too late.

In any case one is an aggressor while the other is trying to survive. Which do you worry about first?

kingpin

12-08-2008, 02:18 AM

Using your own logic, you and Israel shouldn't be complaining about Arabs and Muslims fighting back for their land. Good that's settled, now stop complaining about Arabs blowing up Israeli since according to you it's all fine.

all killing is wrong. but i think israel is the less wrong in this case, plus it's them that their existance is openly threatened by a theocratic regime looking to create a nuclear arsenal.

kingpin

12-08-2008, 02:19 AM

ejnomad07

12-08-2008, 02:23 AM

all killing is wrong.

Is it? I sorta think self-defence and for your survival other than self-defense is justifiable.

Daemonicus

12-08-2008, 02:41 AM

Daemonicus

12-08-2008, 02:46 AM

Is it? I sorta think self-defence and for your survival other than self-defense is justifiable.

Exactly, and Palestinians aren't fighting in self-defense? They lost their state and land which is currently completely under Israeli control and you have Zionist extermists still trying to take more through unlawful and criminal settlements. I'd say that's self-defense. They can't even move around in their own supposed land without Israeli permission. When Poland was occupied by Nazis, they were fighting back as well, was that unjustified?

ejnomad07

12-08-2008, 02:54 AM

Exactly, and Palestinians aren't fighting in self-defense? They lost their state and land which is currently completely under Israeli control and you have Zionist extermists still trying to take more through unlawful and criminal settlements. I'd say that's self-defense. They can't even move around in their own supposed land without Israeli permission. When Poland was occupied by Nazis, they were fighting back as well, was that unjustified?

Palestinians are what they call themselves. Much like we call ourselves Americans but they are more than just us in America. They have never had an area in which they ruled it before. If they are granted land it would be the first independence they ever had.

In any case they are hypocrites. Palestine is very large area as I stated. Why are they not pressing these same demands for lands back from Jordan, Lebanon, and Syria? As they took some of these lands that does encompass Palestine.

Spart

12-08-2008, 03:03 AM

Daemonicus

12-08-2008, 03:10 AM

Palestinians are what they call themselves. Much like we call ourselves Americans but they are more than just us in America. They have never had an area in which they ruled it before. If they are granted land it would be the first independence they ever had.

In any case they are hypocrites. Palestine is very large area as I stated. Why are they not pressing these same demands for lands back from Jordan, Lebanon, and Syria? As they took some of these lands that does encompass Palestine.

Because Jordan, Lebabon and Syria aren't continuing to settle Zionists within the current Palestine borders. Do you like illegal immigrants settling in US? Would you like to have, lets say, Mexican citizens settle in city without any permission and on top of that govern you as well?

nathanpinard

12-08-2008, 03:12 AM

Daemonicus

12-08-2008, 03:14 AM

I noticed someone ask why Israel can have nukes, but not Iran. I don't actually like them having Nukes either, but too late now.

The only nations I would say should have nuclear power are those with a secular government. That way they don't believe that by wiping out the infidels and themselves, they are in fact going to have a better life. They believe that they are killing themselves as well, and that when they are dead, that's it.

I never said I want Iran to have nuclear weapon capabilities, I simply state Israel's arrogance towards the issue. Israel has no right to push Iran to disclose their nuclear programs as long as Israel isn't clear either. It shows that Israel isn't willing to take other steps at solving the issue.

You can't expect an idiot (Iran) to change his ways if you yourself are an idiot (Israel).

ejnomad07

12-08-2008, 03:18 AM

I noticed someone ask why Israel can have nukes, but not Iran. I don't actually like them having Nukes either, but too late now.

The only nations I would say should have nuclear power are those with a secular government. That way they don't believe that by wiping out the infidels and themselves, they are in fact going to have a better life. They believe that they are killing themselves as well, and that when they are dead, that's it.

You sound as if religion is the problem at hand. When any problem arises it is traditionally out of greed. Your governments of choice would then make the rules and those rules would surely benefit them.

Because Jordan, Lebabon and Syria aren't continuing to settle Zionists within the current Palestine borders. Do you like illegal immigrants settling in US? Would you like to have, lets say, Mexican citizens settle in city without any permission and on top of that govern you as well?

You example does not fit the situation at all. An example that would more fit is if USA gave illegal Mexicans Nevada to rule and Nevada complaining about it. Nevada residents never owned ruled their lands USA did.

Daemonicus

12-08-2008, 03:20 AM

The whole Israel blowing up Iran an vice versa is just the beginning.

Islam pretty much says in a nut shell that all unbelievers should die (not in so many simple words however) and even if the Qua'ran is somewhat misinterpreted, that's what a number of them believe.

So if Iran were to succeed in a nuclear strike to Israel, that would only be the beginning. It's a bigger problem than a lot of people think.

Also, if there's anyone here that studies the Qua'ran, I'd like to here your input on what it actually says.

Really, so who's interpretation of Islam do you want to hear? They all have a different interpretation and understanding of Koran, some are more radical and some are less. Sunni? Shiite? Sufist? Ahmadiyya?

Or maybe we should discuss different interpretations of the Bible, since there are also more or less radical views between Christian groups.

I also like how you ask for someone with a detailed understanding of Islam and Koran to give in their input them you already assumed that Islam, as a whole, states that all infidels should die. Good one.

Stark

12-08-2008, 03:22 AM

Daemonicus

12-08-2008, 03:22 AM

You sound as if religion is the problem at hand. When any problem arises it is traditionally out of greed. Your governments of choice would then make the rules and those rules would surely benefit them.

You example does not fit the situation at all. An example that would more fit is if USA gave illegal Mexicans Nevada to rule and Nevada complaining about it. Nevada residents never owned ruled their lands USA did.

Palestinians do not control Palestine, Israel does. Isreal controls and maintains roadblocks between parts of West Bank. Israel controls the economy, imports, exports and movement of people.

ejnomad07

12-08-2008, 03:28 AM

Palestinians do not control Palestine, Israel does. Isreal controls and maintains roadblocks between parts of West Bank. Israel controls the economy, imports, exports and movement of people.

Which in my example fits the situation as that land was given to them. A number of countries control what is Palestine. They only complain to one.

Needles

12-08-2008, 03:33 AM

The whole Israel blowing up Iran an vice versa is just the beginning.

Islam pretty much says in a nut shell that all unbelievers should die (not in so many simple words however) and even if the Qua'ran is somewhat misinterpreted, that's what a number of them believe.

So if Iran were to succeed in a nuclear strike to Israel, that would only be the beginning. It's a bigger problem than a lot of people think.

Also, if there's anyone here that studies the Qua'ran, I'd like to here your input on what it actually says.

You need to think of the fact of mutual assured destruction. It's the main reason why no one uses nukes. "You nuke them and you bet your ass we will glass your country" is basically all it is. If Iran were to nuke Israel, they would undoubtedly nuke back in full force which would be a lot more than Iran can muster. Not only that but you can pretty much bet than the U.S. will get involved and Iran will be completely fucked. I don't really think any country is dumb enough to condemn their entire country just to kill a ton of people in another country.

Secondly, even if Iran somehow lets nukes go to terrorist organizations, I'm pretty confident within a week or less we can identify where that nuke came from and you can bet that will result in a nuking of the nuke's country of origin.

It's incredibly unlikely that this would happen due to this one simple fact, not to mention countless others.

ejnomad07

12-08-2008, 03:35 AM

Stark

12-08-2008, 03:36 AM

http://desertpeace.blogspot.com/2007/10/facts-you-may-not-know-about-israel.html

Daemonicus

12-08-2008, 03:37 AM

Which in my example fits the situation as that land was given to them. A number of countries control what is Palestine. They only complain to one.

No, they are mainly complaining about what is currently considered their land, which consist of Gaza strip and West Bank. Both which are supposed to be the Palestine state, yet it is absolutely controlled, occupied and continuously invaded by Israel and Zionist settlers.

First you guys talk about past being past and no need for Arabs to bitch about their lands and now you bring up how Palestinians should be complaining to Jordan and Egypt about former Palestinian territories? If we are dealing with current shit, then let's do it. Currently, Israel is occupying a sovereign state of Palestine and continuing to resettle their Zionists to the Palestinian land. How about that?

Gaal

12-08-2008, 03:40 AM

Really, so who's interpretation of Islam do you want to hear? They all have a different interpretation and understanding of Koran, some are more radical and some are less. Sunni? Shiite? Sufist? Ahmadiyya?

Or maybe we should discuss different interpretations of the Bible, since there are also more or less radical views between Christian groups.

I also like how you ask for someone with a detailed understanding of Islam and Koran to give in their input them you already assumed that Islam, as a whole, states that all infidels should die. Good one.

"But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful."
Qur’an 9:5

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."
Qur’an 9:29

"O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust." Qur’an 5:51

Hey look what I found! Quotes from the Quran saying that all unbelievers should die!

Imagine that.

ejnomad07

12-08-2008, 03:44 AM

You need to think of the fact of mutual assured destruction. It's the main reason why no one uses nukes. "You nuke them and you bet your ass we will glass your country" is basically all it is. If Iran were to nuke Israel, they would undoubtedly nuke back in full force which would be a lot more than Iran can muster. Not only that but you can pretty much bet than the U.S. will get involved and Iran will be completely fucked. I don't really think any country is dumb enough to condemn their entire country just to kill a ton of people in another country.

Secondly, even if Iran somehow lets nukes go to terrorist organizations, I'm pretty confident within a week or less we can identify where that nuke came from and you can bet that will result in a nuking of the nuke's country of origin.

It's incredibly unlikely that this would happen due to this one simple fact, not to mention countless others.

Ah but there is a catch to your whole method of wisdom. If lets say Russia was giving nukes to terrorist countries. We could not stop it like you suggest. You nuke Russia in revenge of this we would be glassed just the same. I do believe some countries do classify Iran as a terrorist country anyway correct?

http://desertpeace.blogspot.com/2007/10/facts-you-may-not-know-about-israel.html

Did you look deeper into the Author of that site? Perhaps you should before you took stock into a man.

http://sabbah.biz/mt/archives/category/did-you-know/

ejnomad07

12-08-2008, 03:50 AM

No, they are mainly complaining about what is currently considered their land, which consist of Gaza strip and West Bank. Both which are supposed to be the Palestine state, yet it is absolutely controlled, occupied and continuously invaded by Israel and Zionist settlers.

First you guys talk about past being past and no need for Arabs to bitch about their lands and now you bring up how Palestinians should be complaining to Jordan and Egypt about former Palestinian territories? If we are dealing with current shit, then let's do it. Currently, Israel is occupying a sovereign state of Palestine and continuing to resettle their Zionists to the Palestinian land. How about that?

They believe all the land is there land. Don't lie to yourself. Hamas (The majority) refuses to ever admit Israel's right to exist anywhere.

"But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful."
Qur’an 9:5

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."
Qur’an 9:29

"O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust." Qur’an 5:51

Hey look what I found! Quotes from the Quran saying that all unbelievers should die!

Imagine that.

Pretty good trick. You forgot to add the part where Allah commanded them only to go by these rule sets when war has been thrust upon them. Not to thrust war with them.

Daemonicus

12-08-2008, 03:56 AM

"But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful."
Qur’an 9:5

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."
Qur’an 9:29

"O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust." Qur’an 5:51

Hey look what I found! Quotes from the Quran saying that all unbelievers should die!

Imagine that.

Orly. It's fun reading through and interpreting texts as you wish.

Let's look at the bible then.

"Destroy completely all the places on the high mountains and on the hills and under every spreading tree where the nations you are dispossessing worship their gods."
Deuteronomy 12:2

However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the LORD your God has commanded you. Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the LORD your God.
Deuteronomy 12:16-18 (NIV)

"If you ever forget the LORD your God and follow other gods and worship and bow down to them, I [Moses] testify against you today that you will surely be destroyed."
Deuteronomy 8:19

When the LORD your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations — the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, seven nations larger and stronger than you — and when the LORD your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy.
Deuteronomy 7:1-2

If you hear it said about one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you to live in that wicked men have arisen among you and have led the people of their town astray, saying, "Let us go and worship other gods" (gods you have not known), then you must inquire, probe and investigate it thoroughly. And if it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done among you, you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. Destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock.
Deuteronomy 13:12-15 (NIV)

Whoever sacrifices to any god other than the LORD must be destroyed.
Exodus 22:20

Damn, it seems as Christianity is a pretty damn hateful and warmongering religion, if you read through the Bible lines. I don't feel like going through Torah, but I can guarantee you that I could pull similar lines.

ejnomad07

12-08-2008, 04:07 AM

Orly. It's fun reading through and interpreting texts as you wish.

Let's look at the bible then.

Damn, it seems as Christianity is a pretty damn hateful and warmongering religion, if you read through the Bible lines. I don't feel like going through Torah, but I can guarantee you that I could pull similar lines.

Indeed he did. I hope you were using your text only as an example. For you would be doing the same thing to him.

Daemonicus

12-08-2008, 04:13 AM

Indeed he did. I hope you were using your text only as an example. For you would be doing the same thing to him.

I'm just saying that Bible, Koran and Torah all preach both complete destructive hate towards nonbelievers and completely selfless love towards everyone, all depending how and what you read.

That's one of the reasons I hate organized religions, you get a bunch of power hungry idiots spew out their own picked interpretation of some parabola filled text. Nothing good ever came out of that.

ejnomad07

12-08-2008, 04:16 AM

I'm just saying that Bible, Koran and Torah all preach both complete destructive hate towards nonbelievers and completely selfless love towards everyone, all depending how and what you read.

That's one of the reasons I hate organized religions, you get a bunch of power hungry idiots spew out their own picked interpretation of some parabola filled text. Nothing good ever came out of that.

Agreed, but it's not the religion that is wrong it's the greed of those with the power to command it.

Stark

12-08-2008, 04:16 AM

Damn, it seems as Christianity is a pretty damn hateful and warmongering religion, if you read through the Bible lines. I don't feel like going through Torah, but I can guarantee you that I could pull similar lines.

That's all from the Torah. Lol.

Judaism is the hateful and warmongering religion, as further evidenced in the Talmud.

ejnomad07

12-08-2008, 04:20 AM

That's all from the Torah. Lol.

Judaism is the hateful and warmongering religion, as further evidenced in the Talmud.

Well no. Those lines are also for sure in the King James and many other bibles I have looked at.

Stark

12-08-2008, 04:21 AM

Well no. Those lines are also for sure in the King James and many other bibles I have looked at.

Yes, the Torah is the old testament.

Daemonicus

12-08-2008, 04:23 AM

That's all from the Torah. Lol.

Judaism is the hateful and warmongering religion, as further evidenced in the Talmud.

Heh, you got me there. I completely forgot there for a second that Torah is the Old Testament. I guess I managed to go through Torah after all. :sly:

ejnomad07

12-08-2008, 04:23 AM

Yes, the Torah is the old testament.

I said also. They do have the old testament in the Christian bible last I saw. Which would make him correct.

Stark

12-08-2008, 04:31 AM

I said also. They do have the old testament in the Christian bible last I saw. Which would make him correct.

Yes, but Christians follow the new testament.

Daemonicus

12-08-2008, 04:37 AM

Yes, but Christians follow the new testament.

No, Christians follow the Bible, which consist of the Old Testament (Hebrew Bible) and the New Testament (Greek Scripture). Both are Christian guidelines, especially the Old Testament with its Ten Commandments.

Stark

12-08-2008, 04:43 AM

No, Christians follow the Bible, which consist of the Old Testament (Hebrew Bible) and the New Testament (Greek Scripture). Both are Christian guidelines, especially the Old Testament with its Ten Commandments.

The old testament preaches genocide, the new testament preaches essentially love thy neighbor(Martin Luther's version) and that the lowly are blessed.

They contradict each other.

Stark

12-08-2008, 04:46 AM

Now really the old testament teaches to love thy racial neighbor(other Israelites), but Martin Luther was tricked and protestants are taught to love thy neighbor.

ejnomad07

12-08-2008, 04:46 AM

Daemonicus

12-08-2008, 04:47 AM

The old testament preaches genocide, the new testament preaches essentially love thy neighbor(Martin Luther's version) and that the lowly are blessed.

They contradict each other.

Really? No way.

Look what a bunch of text written, rewritten and written some more can do.

Maybe if humanity wouldn't be fighting over who's piece of paper is more correct and less contradicting, we wouldn't have so many problems.

My edition of Harry Potter is better than your, as a matter of fact, it's the only true one. Therefor, I must murder you and your children to purify the world of the infidels. That also means I can control and warmonger masses.

Aren't holy texts convenient?

IthroZada

12-08-2008, 04:53 AM

Really? No way.

Look what a bunch of text written, rewritten and written some more can do.

Maybe if humanity wouldn't be fighting over who's piece of paper is more correct and less contradicting, we wouldn't have so many problems.

My edition of Harry Potter is better than your, as a matter of fact, it's the only true one. Therefor, I must murder you and your children to purify the world of the infidels. That also means I can control and warmonger masses.

Aren't holy texts convenient?

My Harry Potter is signed by J.K. Rowling, so its better (and creator approved)

Now if someone can pull out a Bible signed by God then I will think about starting to go to church every Sunday

ejnomad07

12-08-2008, 04:59 AM

My Harry Potter is signed by J.K. Rowling, so its better (and creator approved)

Now if someone can pull out a Bible signed by God then I will think about starting to go to church every Sunday

Well the question you have to ask now is.

Where do you want me to sign? :ninja:

Needles

12-08-2008, 08:22 AM

[QUOTE=ejnomad07;2093813]Ah but there is a catch to your whole method of wisdom. If lets say Russia was giving nukes to terrorist countries. We could not stop it like you suggest. You nuke Russia in revenge of this we would be glassed just the same. I do believe some countries do classify Iran as a terrorist country anyway correct?

That is what the word mutual means. I was just giving the example since Iran doesn't have the nuclear capabilities that Israel or the U.S. has. Comparing the U.S. to Russia is a different story though.

ejnomad07

12-08-2008, 08:25 AM

That is what the word mutual means. I was just giving the example since Iran doesn't have the nuclear capabilities that Israel or the U.S. has. Comparing the U.S. to Russia is a different story though.

True, but if we let Iran get nukes. We would have that situation.

Needles

12-08-2008, 08:27 AM

True, but if we let Iran get nukes. We would have that situation.

Yes, but still, they have a very long way to go to catch up to the same yields and shear amount that the U.S. and Russia possess. Although it wouldn't take much to wipe out Israel...

ejnomad07

12-08-2008, 08:28 AM

Yes, but still, they have a very long way to go to catch up to the same yields and shear amount that the U.S. and Russia possess. Although it wouldn't take much to wipe out Israel...

Indeed. But one nuke to the US at say New York City would still hurt.

Needles

12-08-2008, 08:31 AM

Indeed. But one nuke to the US at say New York City would still hurt.

Agreed. To further add on to this thread which has conveniently distracted me from memorizing a speech for class in 8 hours, how long do you think it will take them to get a ballistic missile that will reach the U.S.? Lots of countries have nuke's, but most of them lack the range that the U.S. and Russia have, or even the accuracy. (The U.S. concentrates on pinpoint accuracy whereas Russia just concentrates on yield and shoots as much as they can in the general direction of what they want to hit.) This usually makes them just a threat to the region and not states on the other side of the globe. Unless they somehow brought the nuke here and set it off as a bomb, we don't have to worry about it much.

Daemonicus

12-08-2008, 08:31 AM

Indeed. But one nuke to the US at say New York City would still hurt.

How's Iran supposed to get it there? on a boat or maybe fly American Airlines?

ejnomad07

12-08-2008, 08:37 AM

ejnomad07

12-08-2008, 08:39 AM

How's Iran supposed to get it there? on a boat or maybe fly American Airlines?

I think making a nuclear weapon is harder than making a missile that makes it to the United States. I am not sure but just a guess.

Double post. Mods forgive me. :(

Daemonicus

12-08-2008, 08:41 AM

Last I checked Cuba is still a safe haven for people that hate the US. That's within a nuclear strikes range with current Iran missile technology if they sent them the goods. Cuba taking in nuclear missiles has happened before. I do believe that's possible. Regardless, the topic I believe was why Israel should be bothered by this. They are within range and it would not take that many nukes.

Yea, we also have that little Naval base there. This isn't Cold War. Go ahead and attempt to bring nuclear weapons to Cuba. You'll first have to face our Atlantic fleet. Cuba and Castro aren't suicidal either.

As a matter of fact, I wouldn't be surprised if in upcoming few years US relations with Cuba changed drastically for better.

ejnomad07

12-08-2008, 08:42 AM

Yea, we also have that little Naval base there. This isn't Cold War. Go ahead and attempt at bringing nuclear weapons to Cuba. You'll first have to face our Atlantic fleet. Cuba and Castro aren't suicidal either.

As a matter of fact, I wouldn't be surprised if in upcoming few years US relations with Cuba changed drastically for better.

You mean that Naval Base they have wanted us to get the hell out of for years?

Daemonicus

12-08-2008, 08:45 AM

You mean that Naval Base they have wanted us to get the hell out of for years?

And clearly don't have any balls, resources or capabilities to do so. I'm sure US hearing that there is an Iranian nuke heading towards Cuba won't be encouraged to take over the rest of the island. It's kind of crowded at Guantanamo, you know.

ejnomad07

12-08-2008, 08:49 AM

And clearly don't have any balls, resources or capabilities to do so. I'm sure US hearing that there is an Iranian nuke heading towards Cuba won't be encouraged to take over the rest of the island. It's kind of crowded at Guantanamo, you know.

They are under contract nothing they can do otherwise. Also when they have nuclear weapons. Are we then supposed to watch them like a hawk for missile development? That seems a little harder to do. When does it end? My point still stands about Israel having an issue with Iran getting them. USA was a little off topic.

Thanks Needles. :mad:

Needles

12-08-2008, 08:51 AM

I think making a nuclear weapon is harder than making a missile that makes it to the United States. I am not sure but just a guess.

Double post. Mods forgive me. :(

Actually, you can find plans on how to make a nuclear bomb on the internet pretty easily. The hard part is obtaining the uranium. And yes, it is harder to make a ballistic missile that will travel several thousand miles than it is to make the nuke itself. That's one of the reasons why these countries have nuke's but still have such limited ranges.

If you're interested, this was the best map I could find:
http://emcons.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2006/10/world_map_of_nuclear_threats_from_iran_a nd_north_korea.png

P.S. - The U.S. can hit anywhere in the world, that's why there is no circle for us.

Daemonicus

12-08-2008, 08:54 AM

They are under contract nothing they can do otherwise. Also when they have nuclear weapons. Are we then supposed to watch them like a hawk for missile development? That seems a little harder to do. When does it end? My point still stands about Israel having an issue with Iran getting them. USA was a little off topic.

Thanks Needles. :mad:

Then who's stopping Israel from attacking Iran? I'm just hoping that none of my tax money goes for supporting those idiots.

Needles

12-08-2008, 08:55 AM

ejnomad07

12-08-2008, 08:57 AM

Actually, you can find plans on how to make a nuclear bomb on the internet pretty easily. The hard part is obtaining the uranium. And yes, it is harder to make a ballistic missile that will travel several thousand miles then it is to make the nuke itself. That's one of the reasons why these countries have nuke's but still have such limited ranges.

If you're interested, this was the best map I could find:
http://emcons.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2006/10/world_map_of_nuclear_threats_from_iran_a nd_north_korea.png

P.S. - The U.S. can hit anywhere in the world, that's why there is no circle for us.

North Korea has us in their circle. :(

They are potentially refining weapons grade Uranium right now. This should not be a major cause for concern by Israel?

Then who's stopping Israel from attacking Iran? I'm just hoping that none of my tax money goes for supporting those idiots.

Lots of would be pissed off allies and violent neighbors expecting them to now be next.

Daemonicus

12-08-2008, 09:01 AM

North Korea has us in their circle. :(

They are potentially refining weapons grade Uranium right now. This should not be a major cause for concern by Israel?

Since when is North Korea a threat to Israel, or were you referring to Iran? Like I said, if Israel has a legitimate problem with Iran, handle it, just not using my money.

Lots of would be pissed off allies and violent neighbors expecting them to now be next.

So just because they are US allies it means they can bring in US into their pathetic bullshit? It's not our problem, we didn't force our way between a bunch of nations which naturally hate Jews (Ever wondered why Jews are hated everywhere they go?). Last time we did it was during Crusades and most of the time we got our asses handed back to us.

Iran isn't invading Isreal and it certainly won't blow it up with nuclear weapons unless they themselves want to be bombard with 100s of nuclear bombs, since Israel stockpile surly isn't small.

Needles

12-08-2008, 09:02 AM

North Korea has us in their circle. :(

They are potentially refining weapons grade Uranium right now. This should not be a major cause for concern by Israel?

Lots of would be pissed off allies and violent neighbors expecting them to now be next.

North Korea does not have us in their circle. Their program is pretty weak too. This speech I'm doing is on North Korea and nuclear proliferation. "1980-1987: North Korea builds a nuclear reactor, which is gas-cooled and graphite moderated, ostensibly for power but which can yield a theoretical maximum of 15 kilograms of plutonium every two years - about three nuclear bombs worth." It's still about the same today...and their yield is only about the size of the bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, compared to more modern nukes that is absolutely nothing (still devastating though). But their ballistic missile program is pretty terrible as well. The main concern coming from NK is that since they are labeled by the U.S. as a "state sponsor of terror" that they might sell or give nukes to terrorist organizations. The same goes for Iran.

Edit: Also, NK just destroyed its cooling tower that was mentioned above. While that's not an irreversible step, it pretty much puts them out of the picture for a while in terms of possessing nukes.

Cortanya

12-08-2008, 09:12 AM

No, they are mainly complaining about what is currently considered their land, which consist of Gaza strip and West Bank. Both which are supposed to be the Palestine state, yet it is absolutely controlled, occupied and continuously invaded by Israel and Zionist settlers.

Israel unilaterally withdrew from the Gaza Strip in 2005, and began a limited reversal of settlements in the West Bank.

It is true that Israel retains tight control over the West Bank, with occupying forces operating security checkpoints throughout the region. But that's entirely understandable, given what happened when they relinquished Gaza entirely: under the leadership of Hamas, the place turned into an anarchaic shithole whose sole purpose seems to be a launching pad for rockets into Israel.

The IDF still controls entry in and out of Gaza, but they have no permanent forces stationed within the territory (like West Bank). Palestinians in Gaza have only themselves to blame for Israeli incursions and economic reprisals. Don't launch rockets, and maybe the helicoptors or the army won't have to cross the border. Don't launch rockets, and maybe the borders won't have to be closed.

First you guys talk about past being past and no need for Arabs to bitch about their lands and now you bring up how Palestinians should be complaining to Jordan and Egypt about former Palestinian territories? If we are dealing with current shit, then let's do it. Currently, Israel is occupying a sovereign state of Palestine and continuing to resettle their Zionists to the Palestinian land. How about that?

Currently, Israel is only occupying the West Bank.

Sure, I'd like to see them withdraw from the West Bank competely, and give the Palestinians their own (functioning!) state.
But in the real world, look what happened the last time they tried? Gaza ended up in the hands of Hamas, who turned it into the world's biggest rocket launching ghetto.
The West Bank is considerably quieter in the hands of Fatah, but there's also IDF forces making sure it stays that way. If you ask me, the Palestinians blew it with Gaza.

I don't see why Israel should give up the West Bank until...
A: Gaza gets their shit together; or
B: The population of the West Bank washes their hands of Hamas and the situation in Gaza, prove they're not going down the same road, and we end up with a 3-state solution

ejnomad07

12-08-2008, 09:18 AM

North Korea does not have us in their circle. Their program is pretty weak too. This speech I'm doing is on North Korea and nuclear proliferation. "1980-1987: North Korea builds a nuclear reactor, which is gas-cooled and graphite moderated, ostensibly for power but which can yield a theoretical maximum of 15 kilograms of plutonium every two years - about three nuclear bombs worth." It's still about the same today...and their yield is only about the size of the bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, compared to more modern nukes that is absolutely nothing (still devastating though). But their ballistic missile program is pretty terrible as well. The main concern coming from NK is that since they are labeled by the U.S. as a "state sponsor of terror" that they might sell or give nukes to terrorist organizations. The same goes for Iran.

Edit: Also, NK just destroyed its cooling tower that was mentioned above. While that's not an irreversible step, it pretty much puts them out of the picture for a while in terms of possessing nukes.

While I won't fight you as I have not been keeping up with North Korea enough to debate it. Judging by that circle around NK. It looks to project over the west coast by a fair margain. Bear in mind I am thinking that North America wraps around onto that circle on the map.

Since when is North Korea a threat to Israel, or were you referring to Iran? Like I said, if Israel has a legitimate problem with Iran, handle it, just not using my money.

So just because they are US allies it means they can bring in US into their pathetic bullshit? It's not our problem, we didn't force our way between a bunch of nations which naturally hate Jews (Ever wondered why Jews are hated everywhere they go?). Last time we did it was during Crusades and most of the time we got our asses handed back to us.

Iran isn't invading Isreal and it certainly won't blow it up with nuclear weapons unless they themselves want to be bombard with 100s of nuclear bombs, since Israel stockpile surly isn't small.

North Korea I was talking about America. I am not in Israel so that's not us to me. We care about Iran making nukes. The rest I am not going to debate. You're kinda off base with it.

Daemonicus

12-08-2008, 09:23 AM

Israel unilaterally withdrew from the Gaza Strip in 2005, and began a limited reversal of settlements in the West Bank.

It is true that Israel retains tight control over the West Bank, with occupying forces operating security checkpoints throughout the region. But that's entirely understandable, given what happened when they relinquished Gaza entirely: under the leadership of Hamas, the place turned into an anarchaic shithole whose sole purpose seems to be a launching pad for rockets into Israel.

The IDF still controls entry in and out of Gaza, but they have no permanent forces stationed within the territory (like West Bank). Palestinians in Gaza have only themselves to blame for Israeli incursions and economic reprisals. Don't launch rockets, and maybe the helicoptors or the army won't have to cross the border. Don't launch rockets, and maybe the borders won't have to be closed.

Currently, Israel is only occupying the West Bank.

Sure, I'd like to see them withdraw from the West Bank competely, and give the Palestinians their own (functioning!) state.
But in the real world, look what happened the last time they tried? Gaza ended up in the hands of Hamas, who turned it into the world's biggest rocket launching ghetto.
The West Bank is considerably quieter in the hands of Fatah, but there's also IDF forces making sure it stays that way. If you ask me, the Palestinians blew it with Gaza.

I don't see why Israel should give up the West Bank until...
A: Gaza gets their shit together; or
B: The population of the West Bank washes their hands of Hamas and the situation in Gaza, prove they're not going down the same road, and we end up with a 3-state solution

I see your points, but I still believe it's all just one side of the vicious cycle.

You say Gaza needs to get their shit together before anything is done. Yet, how are you expecting them to even attempt to change anything when Israel is blocking all outside aid and money. As of right now, majority of Gaza population is better off with Hamas since they are actually doing something to keep the population alive and not starving to death. Sure, Hamas are a bunch of fanatical idiots, but you must also see the situation from the point of view of an average Gaza citizen. They have an aggressor blocking economic development and aid. The only people they see do something for them are Hamas. Maybe if Israel actually tried to convince Gazans that they are not the bad guys are Hamas are not the good guys, because that's how it is now, then maybe something could change. Gazans can't even leave to the West Bank without Israel permission. They have to completely depend on Israel to provide them with food, water, energy, medical supplies, basically everything since all of that is blocked from entering Gaza from other locations. What I always do before I put a blame on any side of any conflict is I try to put myself in the shoes of an average person on each side of the conflict and try to understand their point of views and issues. Israel needs to do the same or else they'll eventually get wiped off the face of the earth.

ejnomad07

12-08-2008, 09:27 AM

I see your points, but I still believe it's all just one side of the vicious cycle.

You say Gaza needs to get their shit together before anything is done. Yet, how are you expecting them to even attempt to change anything when Israel is blocking all outside aid and money. As of right now, majority of Gaza population is better off with Hamas since they are actually doing something to keep the population alive and not starving to death. Sure, Hamas are a bunch of fanatical idiots, but you must also see the situation from the point of view of an average Gaza citizen. They have an aggressor blocking economic development and aid. The only people they see do something for them are Hamas. Maybe if Israel actually tried to convince Gazans that they are not the bad guys are Hamas are not the good guys, because that's how it is now, then maybe something could change. Gazans can't even leave to the West Bank without Israel permission. They have to completely depend on Israel to provide them with food, water, energy, medical supplies, basically everything since all of that is blocked from entering Gaza from other locations. What I always do before I put a blame on any side of any conflict is I try to put myself in the shoes of an average person on each side of the conflict and try to understand their point of views and issues. Israel needs to do the same or else they'll eventually get wiped off the face of the earth.

How can Israel deal with a group that refuses to deal with you? They backed off and offered them land. They reward that freedom with rockets.

Daemonicus

12-08-2008, 09:29 AM

How can Israel deal with a group that refuses to deal with you? They backed off and offered them land. They reward that freedom with rockets.

Don't deal with the few on top, deal with the population. The few on top are nothing without the support of the population. In this case, Hamas would not be the problem if the Gaza population had no choice but to support it.

ejnomad07

12-08-2008, 09:30 AM

Don't deal with the few on top, deal with the population. The few on top are nothing without the support of the population. In this case, Hamas would not be the problem if the Gaza population had no choice but to support it.

I think you forgot who voted them to the top.

Daemonicus

12-08-2008, 09:32 AM

I think you forgot who voted them to the top.

Who? Abbas, who's of Fatah movement, was elected the leader of the Palestine state. Hamas, being pissed off, forced their leadership upon Gaza. It's a bit difficult to actually enforce your rule over the land when the particular piece of land isn't even connected to the rest. Look at the map of Palestine.

ejnomad07

12-08-2008, 09:35 AM

Who? Abbas, who's of Fatah movement, was elected as the leader of Palestine state. Hamas, being pissed off, forced their leadership upon Gaza. It's a bit difficult to actually enforce your rule over the land when the particular piece of land isn't even connected to the rest. Look at the map of Palestine.

What? They were voted in as the majority party of the palestinian national authority. Abbas had nothing to do with it. The people want Hamas to lead.

Daemonicus

12-08-2008, 09:49 AM

What? They were voted in as the majority party of the palestinian national authority. Abbas had nothing to do with it. The people want Hamas to lead.

After a bit looking, you are correct. Nevertheless, I can completely understand why the population would elect Hamas over Fatah. As much as Hamas are radicals on a lost cause to bring down Israel, they have actually done more humanitarian good for the Palestinian people than Fatah or Israel. They are doing the same what Hezbollah is doing in the southern Lebanon. From a perspective of an average Palestinian family, I'd probably go with Hamas as well. I'd prefer having food and resources to support my family over having nothing at all, even if that's at cost of relations with the aggressor state.

Cortanya

12-08-2008, 10:09 AM

While I won't fight you as I have not been keeping up with North Korea enough to debate it. Judging by that circle around NK. It looks to project over the west coast by a fair margain. Bear in mind I am thinking that North America wraps around onto that circle on the map.

That map appears pretty basic and looks like just rough estimates, so I wouldn't read too much into it.

That circle most likely represents the range of North Korea's Taepodong-2 ballistic missile, which is in development and not actually a deployed system.
In fact, we tracked them the last time they tested this missile, which failed shortly after launch.

Their IRBM development is a lot more mature, but we still can't be positive that they've developed enough nuclear weapons small and reliable enough to mount on IRBMs.

Actually, the biggest concern with North Korea is that they'll sell their nuclear or missile technology to other countries (eg Iran).

I see your points, but I still believe it's all just one side of the vicious cycle.

You say Gaza needs to get their shit together before anything is done. Yet, how are you expecting them to even attempt to change anything when Israel is blocking all outside aid and money.

Israel didn't close the Gazan border until Hamas won the elections and made "attacking Israel again" their official first act.

What do Gazans possibly gain from firing crude rockets into Israel, except retaliation from helicoptors and tighter controls on the borders? When Fatah still ran the strip, at least aid could still flow in.

As of right now, majority of Gaza population is better off with Hamas since they are actually doing something to keep the population alive and not starving to death. Sure, Hamas are a bunch of fanatical idiots, but you must also see the situation from the point of view of an average Gaza citizen.

How were they any better off? Hamas won elections because of the widely perceived (and actual) corruption of Fatah officials in Gaza.
Corruption aside, at least the border remained open (if controlled) under their watch.

I don't know how bad the corrupt Fatah government was, but I know it's better than a bunch of thugs doing everything in their power to provoke Israel. What do they do with their time, but build homemade rockets, or dig tunnels to try and kidnap IDF patrollers?

They have an aggressor blocking economic development and aid. The only people they see do something for them are Hamas. Maybe if Israel actually tried to convince Gazans that they are not the bad guys are Hamas are not the good guys, because that's how it is now, then maybe something could change. Gazans can't even leave to the West Bank without Israel permission. They have to completely depend on Israel to provide them with food, water, energy, medical supplies, basically everything since all of that is blocked from entering Gaza from other locations.

That was tried that in 2005. It didn't work. They had food, water, and energy. They gave it up when Hamas restarted the conflict.

What do you suggest?
Israel can't administer the territory themselves; the people (and the middle east) would never accept it.
The people rejected Fatah as corrupt.
They chose Hamas, and we can only guess whether they're regretting it now or not.

As it stands right now...
Israel can't concede to Hamas, or they'll open themselves up to being freely attacked.
They can't sweep in and topple Hamas, installing a more stable government... they'd be condemned by the world, and the population would resist in a way that'd make Iraq look like recess.

Their options are:
1. Maintain the status quo of containing and deterring Hamas attacks the best they can
2. attempt to negotiate a ceasefire with Hamas should they decide to come forward
3. wait until the population of Gaza decides they've had enough and want a change

2 and 3 require action on the part of Hamas or the population. Until one of those things happen, what choice do they have other than #1?