Whats with the WoW hate?

[Secret]

Whats with all the wow hate in the forums? All I see everywhere are posts about how people should go back to playing wow, how wow sucks. I went along with it for a while b/c i didnt want to get flamed but no more! Im taking a stand. What the hell is up with everyone disliking wow players? Ive only played wow once at a friends house (where I play most pay 2 play games, he subscribes to everything) because i am too cheap, it didnt seem all that bad in all honesty. the graphics were ok, the people seemed rather funny, and the fighting wasnt bad. I mean they must be doing something right with 4 million subscribers!(I didnt count asian gold farmers)

So can someone please answer whats with the wow hate?
Is it the grinding? yes wow is a grind fest, but I dont expect darkfall will be all that different. I mean you will have to 'grind' by fighting goblins to get your skill up so that you can have high enough skill levels to fight other players. Infact real life is a grind too. You study so you get better test scores, you work out to increase your strength, its all a grind so whats the problem?

[nick larking]

Cause wow is a shit game imo.
And most wow players should stick to safe areas most likely as they cant handle pvp everywhere.

[johnnyt305]

This can sum it up:

"hate It Or Love It, The Underdogs On Top
and Im Gon' Shine Homie Until My Heart Stop
go Head Envy Me, Im Raps Mvp
and I Aint Goin Nowhere So You Can Get To Know Me"

Same concept as why people hate WOW. People always hate things that are doing good or on top. Countries, People, Games, Athletes, anything.

Things that have a bunch of haters are usually thinsg that are doing very well and successful.

I don't like WOW and don't play it, but I don't hate it either, no reason to.

"Hater:

A person who feels anger and/or jealousy for someone who has succeeded in something they have worked hard for.
A being who speaks badly,and/or takes negative actions in attempt to create problems for a successful person. "

[forestchild]

Whats with all the wow hate in the forums? All I see everywhere are posts about how people should go back to playing wow, how wow sucks. I went along with it for a while b/c i didnt want to get flamed but no more! Im taking a stand. What the hell is up with everyone disliking wow players? Ive only played wow once at a friends house (where I play most pay 2 play games, he subscribes to everything) because i am too cheap, it didnt seem all that bad in all honesty. the graphics were ok, the people seemed rather funny, and the fighting wasnt bad. I mean they must be doing something right with 4 million subscribers!(I didnt count asian gold farmers)

So can someone please answer whats with the wow hate?
Is it the grinding? yes wow is a grind fest, but I dont expect darkfall will be all that different. I mean you will have to 'grind' by fighting goblins to get your skill up so that you can have high enough skill levels to fight other players. Infact real life is a grind too. You study so you get better test scores, you work out to increase your strength, its all a grind so whats the problem?

Its themepark its easy its grind instance carebear and so many more things why this game sucks its just world of crap.:sly:

[forestchild]

This can sum it up:

"hate It Or Love It, The Underdogs On Top
and Im Gon' Shine Homie Until My Heart Stop
go Head Envy Me, Im Raps Mvp
and I Aint Goin Nowhere So You Can Get To Know Me"

Same concept as why people hate WOW. People always hate things that are doing good or on top. Countries, People, Games, Athletes, anything.

Things that have a bunch of haters are usually thinsg that are doing very well and successful.

I don't like WOW and don't play it, but I don't hate it either, no reason to.

Its just total crap that dont mean i hate it i just wont play it even if you give me 500euro's to play it for a month, its awefull game.

[flakmonky]

Sanbox players talking about a themepark game.

The massive effect WoW has had on the genre (people don't want to diverge to far from WoW, because Wow is the proven model).

It really is quite obvious why. Oh and good luck with taking a stand, as forumfall will now react by mercilessly flaming you every time you post, no matter how intelligent the post.

Holy shit, is that intelligence from Jonnyt305?

[KaneK89]

Because most of us are of the mind that WoW is for carebears. I don't mean people who dislike PvP, or overly caring, nice people. I mean people that want more reward for less risk. They don't want a challenge. The game is easy, but monotonous for the most of us. It also requires basically 0 skill. If all other things considered equal, two warriors duel, the one with the best gear will win 90% of the time.

Crit chance, procs, overpowered gear that creates a huge gap between players' abilities, and levels basically make the combat more reliant on gear, luck, and levels as opposed to skill.

Let's not forget the lack of any real PvP, and the whole aspect of having to PvE to be competitive in PvP makes me sick. You should not have to do one thing in order to do the other, I think. People who enjoy PvE can PvE, people who prefer PvP and hate PvE shouldn't have to PvP.

Before you say "but in DFO you still have to grind skills". Yeah, it's true, but you forget that it's open PvP and skills raise by using them. Which means to me that I can spar with a friend to raise my combat skills. Which is way more fun than whacking mobs. And if you say "but you might have to PvE for gear" I'll cyber-slap you.

Finally, there are threads like this made every fucking week. Go read one of them.

[Paganini]

It's a rite of passage here

[johnnyt305]

Its just total crap that dont mean i hate it i just wont play it even if you give me 500euro's to play it for a month, its awefull game.

Hater - A being who speaks badly,and/or takes negative actions in attempt to create problems for a successful person.

If you don't like it, don't play it, no reason to talk bad about it and try to convince others not to play it. Let them decide if they like it or not, if not, then you're a hater, sorry.

[rwp80]

Whats with all the wow hate in the forums?
[...then more stuff that I didnt read, "TLDR" please?]

WoW hate is caused by one of two things:

1. Experience of playing WoW, and growing to hate it. Usually accompanied by in-depth technical analysis of gameplay features.
2. Wanting to look cool by jumping on the hate bandwagon, typical of losers and teenagers (who are losers anyway).
3. ????
4. PROFIT
5. Making a list on Forumfall.
6. BAIL-OUT

[Magus12386]

I played WoW and its because the game is horrible. Its fun at first, but once you hit your level cap the end game is useless. Its all the same instead of grinding for a level your grinding for gear by farming instances. Even PvP is so gear based half the people that pvp in WoW pvp for gear not for the shear fun of it. This takes away from the game. WoW is geared towards the simple mind it looks great on paper, but after a while you realize how horrible it is.

[Jayaris]

Its just total crap that dont mean i hate it i just wont play it even if you give me 500euro's to play it for a month, its awefull game.

You are a child of the forest in that you lack formal education you wipe your ass with leaves and your parents abandoned you.

[Daden]

I think it pretty easily boils down to a couple of things:

First, every game developer and their brother wants to copy WoW's success (aka subscriber base), thus the market is painfully lacking any games with depth and risk. This makes this forum's population perturbed, as they would rather be playing Darkfall than waiting for it to find a proper publisher/funding.

Second, hating mainstream media for the sheer satisfaction of being hardcore is pretty compelling. We all like to feel special and different, often at the cost of thinking ourselves better than other individuals/groups.

[johnnyt305]

Because most of us are of the mind that WoW is for carebears. I don't mean people who dislike PvP, or overly caring, nice people. I mean people that want more reward for less risk. They don't want a challenge. The game is easy, but monotonous for the most of us. It also requires basically 0 skill. If all other things considered equal, two warriors duel, the one with the best gear will win 90% of the time.

Crit chance, procs, overpowered gear that creates a huge gap between players' abilities, and levels basically make the combat more reliant on gear, luck, and levels as opposed to skill.

Let's not forget the lack of any real PvP, and the whole aspect of having to PvE to be competitive in PvP makes me sick. You should not have to do one thing in order to do the other, I think. People who enjoy PvE can PvE, people who prefer PvP and hate PvE shouldn't have to PvP.

Before you say "but in DFO you still have to grind skills". Yeah, it's true, but you forget that it's open PvP and skills raise by using them. Which means to me that I can spar with a friend to raise my combat skills. Which is way more fun than whacking mobs. And if you say "but you might have to PvE for gear" I'll cyber-slap you.

Finally, there are threads like this made every fucking week. Go read one of them.

WOW was made for players that want to explore dungeons and beat bosses, collect loot and gear to gain power.

Your talking as if they said it was a PVP game or as if they promised you a game like UO. They never said it would be for PVP players.

Will you expect Darkfall to have tons of raid dungeons like WOW? No. Different type of MMORPGs, not all of them have to be the same and focus on PVP man.

Its like comparing Halo & Call of Duty series, both are FPS, but way different in every way.

[Xconfidential]

Whats with all the wow hate in the forums? All I see everywhere are posts about how people should go back to playing wow, how wow sucks. I went along with it for a while b/c i didnt want to get flamed but no more! Im taking a stand. What the hell is up with everyone disliking wow players? Ive only played wow once at a friends house (where I play most pay 2 play games, he subscribes to everything) because i am too cheap, it didnt seem all that bad in all honesty. the graphics were ok, the people seemed rather funny, and the fighting wasnt bad. I mean they must be doing something right with 4 million subscribers!(I didnt count asian gold farmers)

So can someone please answer whats with the wow hate?
Is it the grinding? yes wow is a grind fest, but I dont expect darkfall will be all that different. I mean you will have to 'grind' by fighting goblins to get your skill up so that you can have high enough skill levels to fight other players. Infact real life is a grind too. You study so you get better test scores, you work out to increase your strength, its all a grind so whats the problem?


well almost all the time i agree withyour posts SECRET.. but not tonight.. its not that i HATE wow.. its we hate what WoW represents, and its effect on the entire MMO genre created by the noobs who play such a brick wall, 1 direction , easy, max lvl in a week, game. Companies(due to greed-- especially SoE--ie Eq2 etc) are making ther game SO easy and SO repetively Boring due to the fact that this game is geting so much attention because so and so tells soandso at work to play it.. its there first MMO. .so there like man this is sweet.. an online world where i can socialize.. play a game.. buld a character..get cool items.. etc

in actuallity the people who are losing out are the gamers(me included) who have been gaming for 15+ years and are looking for challenging and new roles to take on in the RPG world. WoW represents making things easier for the common, non "hardcore" gamer.. but insteadof making everything carebear or cupcakes on a platter, how about keep the content harder.. get the newcomers to leanr how to play, AND if the communites were more "n00b" friendly then they wouldnt quit so fast and go back to what is eay and comfortable..

gotta realize if someone buys a game, and asks a few questions and gets flamed every time.. andcannot figure it out.. hes going to quit and go back to wow.. or wherever. So remeber the next time you see a n00b ask a question and you have already seen that question 125 times either ignore it, or answer it.. thus making them a beter gamer.. makin the game you choose to play that much better. the more fundamental players the better off your game and your gaming experience is going to be..

ok im rambling.. take care

[trollsallday]

i know whats with the wow hate

i enjoyed wow the 1st time i played it. i played EQ2 most my days and played wow on 3-4 day binges like all day once a month. i quit eq and wow but still play a month or two of wow now and then

but im long overdue for change, my first attempt was VG, downhill from there.

i guess what im saying is people are sick of wow. thats why

it doesnt really inspire long term commitment

[Realbigdeal22]

Wow, i dont want to think of it. The grinding aspect drain your life. Me, i left this game at level 55 because it was so boring!! If you dont stop playing, you will someday play all day long. I mean, some left their job for that game. Some left their wife. You think you can handle it, but you cannot.

If you play with your friends. you will play none stop. Why? Because if you stop, your friends will continue to play and they will become high level with high purple gear when you are just low compar to them. Then, your friends will ask you to hurry up if you want to stink with them again. Then, finally, you are level 70. Your friends have the epic flymount and you still have the green gears. Your friends will ask you to farm farm farm and farm teal you are all in purple with an epic fly mount if you want to stink with them. All that could take many months from your life and you will play solo teal you become the same level as your friends.

Wow just sux. Darkfall will not force us to grind to play with our friends.

[Deja vu]

WoW = McDonalds

Just cause its the Biggest does not mean its the best.

[tazco]

Whats with all the wow hate in the forums? All I see everywhere are posts about how people should go back to playing wow, how wow sucks. I went along with it for a while b/c i didnt want to get flamed but no more! Im taking a stand. What the hell is up with everyone disliking wow players? Ive only played wow once at a friends house (where I play most pay 2 play games, he subscribes to everything) because i am too cheap, it didnt seem all that bad in all honesty. the graphics were ok, the people seemed rather funny, and the fighting wasnt bad. I mean they must be doing something right with 4 million subscribers!(I didnt count asian gold farmers)

So can someone please answer whats with the wow hate?
Is it the grinding? yes wow is a grind fest, but I dont expect darkfall will be all that different. I mean you will have to 'grind' by fighting goblins to get your skill up so that you can have high enough skill levels to fight other players. Infact real life is a grind too. You study so you get better test scores, you work out to increase your strength, its all a grind so whats the problem?

I can`t speak for darkfall but... Wow all in all is an ok game if your are into the endless hours of griding,raiding and not so pvp. Wow is gear dependent when they relase an exp all your hard work is wasted, sure raiders can vender gear or disenchant it, but unless its changed pvp gear has to be destroyed. I understand they do it so people don`t grind gear to sell it or disenchant it. I know that mmo`s are bound to change but wow does it based on whinning on the forum. Pre bc before the honor ranks changed I made it to rank 11 before they took out the ranks, then it became a grindfest for everyone that couldent raid to get gear. Kinda unfair to eveyone that did non stop pvp just to maintain a pvp rank. Besides wow was never made with battle grounds in mind they were added in later, only realy pvp when wow launched was world pvp, witch died down alot after bg`s came in. AV has been changed so many times its not worth playing now, the old 2 hour fights back and forth were epicly fun. They should have just uped the honor in av and kept it the same. I did allitle raiding here and there but I was/am a pvp at heart. Scripts can be learned by the player, pvp is always a different fight.
So to play wow on my own server where I do want I want is the only wow I play now adays, or on private servers.

[johnnyt305]

I played WoW and its because the game is horrible. Its fun at first, but once you hit your level cap the end game is useless. Its all the same instead of grinding for a level your grinding for gear by farming instances. Even PvP is so gear based half the people that pvp in WoW pvp for gear not for the shear fun of it. This takes away from the game. WoW is geared towards the simple mind it looks great on paper, but after a while you realize how horrible it is.

I played until my guild was at the end of Naxx and then TBC came out back when 60 was cap.

I was done with the game after that, it was fun while I played, but it just got old after a couple months of raids. Does that mean its a horrible game? NO. It just means once a game is not fun, you just quit. Every game is only fun for a while, they all get boring soon enough.

Do you expect to play one game from now til you die? WOW was fun for a year for me, that is enough time man, its only a game, what do you want for it t to entertain you until your death bed?

Why aren't you all that love UO still playing it everyday? Because it got old and boring after a while, same shit, so please guys stop hating, just makes you look dumb.

[joelfilho]

WoW hate is basically due to:
1 - people come here and make new threads with "I want soulbound items plz! plz! I dont want to lose my hard earned gear!"
2 - people come and ask "give me pets pls where are pets i want pets"
3 - there is always a new thread complaining about free loot (wich is the same as number 1)
4 - they want stealth like rogues in wow cause its easy to play
5 - another thread asking for pets..
6 - wow players argue about what end-game there will be on DF..

And real mmorpg players get tired of answering all those repetitives questions over and over and over and over...

[rwp80]

Then, your friend will ask you to hurry up if you are to stink togheter again.
Your friends will ask you to farm farm farm and farm teal you are purple with a fly mount if you want to stink with them.

I'm betting Galadrist will have this sig-quoted within 12 hours.

RBD22, did you get the parcel I mailed to you? It was a romantic box of chocolates saying how much I love you.
I prefer the mixed box of chocolates because I like to farm farm farm the purple ones first then just eat the rest teal I stink.

[enki]

The reason i hate wow is just becuase how to over runs the mmo market and doesnt give anyone a fare chance.

[OvanOf Twilight]

OP = Troll
/Thread

[Xconfidential]

WoW hate is basically due to:
1 - people come here and make new threads with "I want soulbound items plz! plz! I dont want to lose my hard earned gear!"
2 - people come and ask "give me pets pls where are pets i want pets"
3 - there is always a new thread complaining about free loot (wich is the same as number 1)
4 - they want stealth like rogues in wow cause its easy to play
5 - another thread asking for pets..
6 - wow players argue about what end-game there will be on DF..

And real mmorpg players get tired of answering all those repetitives questions over and over and over and over...


HERE HERE!:bang:

[mrbubbles]

WoW=mostly carbears

people fear carebears cause there is the fear that they will screw the game by begging the aventurine inc. to implement safe zones

so if u carebear u get flamed BAD

[KaneK89]

WOW was made for players that want to explore dungeons and beat bosses, collect loot and gear to gain power.

Your talking as if they said it was a PVP game or as if they promised you a game like UO. They never said it would be for PVP players.

Will you expect Darkfall to have tons of raid dungeons like WOW? No. Different type of MMORPGs, not all of them have to be the same and focus on PVP man.

Its like comparing Halo & Call of Duty series, both are FPS, but way different in every way.

Ok, where did I say they promised it to be a PvP game? Where? Oh, right, I didn't. Don't put words in peoples' mouths, it makes you look like a tool.

I wasn't saying WoW sucks because it's not a PvP game. I'm saying it sucks because there's no risk involved with ANYTHING. You die, lose a little gold due to durability dropping. Woo, lots of risk. The thing I said about PvP requiring next to no skill just makes the game worse, and people hate it more for that reason.

[Harsher]

Telling somebody to go back to WoW is an insult, because it's the pinnacle of carebare games. That's like going "hey dude your such a racist, burn in hell"
then going "what's with all the hate towards racists man, you're white, they dont bother you"

[Realbigdeal22]

From now, Darkfall, UO and Wow are accepted as advance discussion.

[Thee Leprechaun]

WOW was made for players that want to explore dungeons and beat bosses, collect loot and gear to gain power.

Your talking as if they said it was a PVP game or as if they promised you a game like UO. They never said it would be for PVP players.

Will you expect Darkfall to have tons of raid dungeons like WOW? No. Different type of MMORPGs, not all of them have to be the same and focus on PVP man.

Its like comparing Halo & Call of Duty series, both are FPS, but way different in every way.

well that is exactly why we hate WoW, its not what we want in a video game. We want Darkfall because it is exactly what WoW isnt...good.

[Chevo]

Most of the people that are attracted to this game are people that hate everything about WoW and well i guess if a bunch of WoW players came to DF and whined for Safe Zones and No Full Loot about 95% of the loyal players would fucking hate it...

[mrbubbles]

As much as i hate carebears and want to gut them with a pen
we need them to be crafters and monster control when all we want to do is bathe in the blood of an enemy clan:D

[Killuan]

Another "why wow sucks?" thread... :rolleyes:

In short words, its for [insert your best insult here] who wants a easymode game in every aspect.

People could use instead of wow, hello kitty online or wolf quest, but becouse wow have a little bit more players than these games, it's easier to make a point, 'couse most of players have played it already.

If that dont clarify things to you... use search.

[johnnyt305]

Ok, where did I say they promised it to be a PvP game? Where? Oh, right, I didn't. Don't put words in peoples' mouths, it makes you look like a tool.

I wasn't saying WoW sucks because it's not a PvP game. I'm saying it sucks because there's no risk involved with ANYTHING. You die, lose a little gold due to durability dropping. Woo, lots of risk. The thing I said about PvP requiring next to no skill just makes the game worse, and people hate it more for that reason.

You said the game is no good because it has no good PVP. PVP is not what they advertise. PVP is not what most users care about that are playing that game.

Players of WOW don't care about risk in PVP. They are playing to beat dungeons, get loot and gain power from doing that. They like that type of game or they would not be subscribed for years.

More people love it than any other MMORPG game man, 11 million players subscribed. What do you mean "peolpe hate it"? - more like you are a hater.

Most other MMO games have only 100K-200K players, does that mean people hate them all more? What game do people love then?

[johnnyt305]

well that is exactly why we hate WoW, its not what we want in a video game. We want Darkfall because it is exactly what WoW isnt...good.

Yes, WE want a game with full loot, FPS skilled combat, tons of PVP and looting.

But, it does not mean WOW sucks. Just that WE don't want to play WOW.

There are choices in life, just because you don't like to eat apples, you like oranges, does it mean apples suck? NO, you just don't like one of them, but other people do.

[Dagger]

Whats with all the wow hate in the forums? All I see everywhere are posts about how people should go back to playing wow, how wow sucks. I went along with it for a while b/c i didnt want to get flamed but no more! Im taking a stand. What the hell is up with everyone disliking wow players? Ive only played wow once at a friends house (where I play most pay 2 play games, he subscribes to everything) because i am too cheap, it didnt seem all that bad in all honesty. the graphics were ok, the people seemed rather funny, and the fighting wasnt bad. I mean they must be doing something right with 4 million subscribers!(I didnt count asian gold farmers)

So can someone please answer whats with the wow hate?
Is it the grinding? yes wow is a grind fest, but I dont expect darkfall will be all that different. I mean you will have to 'grind' by fighting goblins to get your skill up so that you can have high enough skill levels to fight other players. Infact real life is a grind too. You study so you get better test scores, you work out to increase your strength, its all a grind so whats the problem?

:lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao: :lmao:

[Xzi]

WoW sucks and therefore = WoW hate.

Pretty straightforward. I don't know why this thread exists.

[Signus]

Because WoW did absolutely nothing original, and yet people worship it as though it were the god of MMOs, despite being far far far inferior to almost every game before and after it.

The 4 million that play it have never gotten a chance to play better games, and likely never will. And cause WoWbies are so close minded they're always in shock and awe when someone suggests a something that isn't in WoW.

[KaneK89]

You said the game is no good because it has no good PVP. PVP is not what they advertise. PVP is not what most users care about that are playing that game.

Players of WOW don't care about risk in PVP. They are playing to beat dungeons, get loot and gain power from doing that. They like that type of game or they would not be subscribed for years.

More people love it than any other MMORPG game man, 11 million players subscribed. What do you mean "peolpe hate it"? - more like you are a hater.

Most other MMO games have only 100K-200K players, does that mean people hate them all more? What game do people love then?

Oh, ffs. Way to take everything out of context.

The poorly implemented PvP is one of the reasons the haters hate the game.

It's carebear, as in there's no risk. The main reason haters hate it.

I'm not saying everyone should stop playing the fucking game, I'm explaining why us haters hate the game. People can play whatever the fuck they want, but carebears will not make it in DFO. And most of them try to change the game to cater to their wants even though there are a plethora of other games that suit them. Seeing as WoW is the largest - in subscriptions - carebear game out there, most of us haters hate it instead of Dark Age of Camelot, Everquest, etc. At least in DAoC items broke.

Again, not saying people shouldn't play WoW. I'm saying they should stay away from Darkfall. It doesn't suit the majority of them, and those that find DFO want the game to be more carebear.

[mrbubbles]

I really hope they don't change it for carebears


I don't think they will

but if they do so help me GOD! i will find every damn carbear who played that game adn ripp out there haerts

[johnnyt305]

Because WoW did absolutely nothing original, and yet people worship it as though it were the god of MMOs, despite being far far far inferior to almost every game before and after it.

The 4 million that play it have never gotten a chance to play better games, and likely never will. And cause WoWbies are so close minded they're always in shock and awe when someone suggests a something that isn't in WoW.

Its 11 million that play it man. 2.8 million bought the new expansion within 24 hours. IDK where you got 4 million....

Let WOW players worry about if the game is good or not. You aren't playing it right? So why do you care if they have fun in that game? I tell my friends to try other games, if they want to stick with WOW, its their choice. Its only a game, if they like that game more than another, oh well, not my problem.

You say "WOWbies" are closed minded. But everyone on here saying WOW sucks, most of them say it is because it is not UO. That is more closed minded to me. You are trying to say every MMORPG has to be full loot, have open PVP and be like UO. Why? Some people don't like UO or that type of game play, so that is why they play other games.

For one person running a mile a day everyday for years is fun, for another he thinks that's not fun. Is the runner stupid? is running stupid because you don't like to run?

You guys make no sense. if people enjoy WOW, let them enjoy it. You find something else to enjoy and let them be. Go play UO like I said, why are you on here, UO is the best ever, go play it man.....

[Arravia]

No risk, all reward.

Valuable things are fun to have. It's even more fun for most if there's the extra chance of loosing what you've gained. No matter what happens, there's nothing to loose. It gives you less to fight for when the only thing you get from winning a battle is some money, some xp, and a new bit of text that floats above you wherever you go.

Boring as hell.

Grindgrindgrindgrindgrindgrindgrindgrind grindZOMGLVL70raidraidraidraidraidZOMGEP ICZraidraidraidraidZOMGEPICZraidraidraid YAYZFULLSETpvppvppvppvppvppvppvppvppvppv p...yeah. The rare 'special events' (which are little more than reskinned old stuff) aren't enough to break up the monotony.

Safe Zones.

Most people don't want the game holding their hand the entire way, but that's what safe zones do. It's like baby not being allowed to try and crawl until the parents are sure that they can walk. Plus, when you're in enemy territory, it allows an army of enemy noobs to follow you around until you take on a beastie you can't handle.

Pretty much no skill required.

If you get bored with your top char (and face it, you will), you may decide to start another. Problem is that, despite all the long, hard hours you put in to training, you can't jump into the fun stuff with this new (read: reskinned old thing) char. Oh, no. You have to put in a mountain of time once again to get up to the level where you can actually do something approaching entertaining. Despite your experience at the game, you'll still get your ass handed to you by anyone fifteen levels higher. And even when you do get to the top, it's just bunnyhopping and button mashing. Spastic keyboard pounding can actually win you a battle if your char is strong because of the damn auto-targeting.

Pet peeves.

What the fuck is up with those boars?! They shouldn’t be able to walk around without a heart, liver, or brain! That’s what the undead are for! And NPCs running up vertical walls? Not only does it deprive you of loot if they’re running away, but it prevents you from having fun being invulnerable if you’re on top of a cliff. I should be allowed to stand on top of a cliff nuking anatomically incorrect boars, damnit!

[TeddyMadison]

So as you can see, the type of player that is attracted to what DF promises is turned off by what WOW offers. It makes sense but understand that it is a very biased opinion.

I personally play WOW and don't focus on levels and PVP, I like to play the market. When I'm not playing the market I try to get certain items, and so forth, so in that respect it is a sandbox.

The opinions you are going to get here are based on combat oriented players that are looking at the combat aspects of WOW, which are weak. I personally hope DF has a healthy market as that is what gives me what I am looking for.

Teddy

[johnnyt305]

Oh, ffs. Way to take everything out of context.

The poorly implemented PvP is one of the reasons the haters hate the game.

It's carebear, as in there's no risk. The main reason haters hate it.

I'm not saying everyone should stop playing the fucking game, I'm explaining why us haters hate the game. People can play whatever the fuck they want, but carebears will not make it in DFO. And most of them try to change the game to cater to their wants even though there are a plethora of other games that suit them. Seeing as WoW is the largest - in subscriptions - carebear game out there, most of us haters hate it instead of Dark Age of Camelot, Everquest, etc. At least in DAoC items broke.

Again, not saying people shouldn't play WoW. I'm saying they should stay away from Darkfall. It doesn't suit the majority of them, and those that find DFO want the game to be more carebear.

Well, when WOW players like those play Darkfall and when they complain in the game, MURDER them and make them go back to WOW.

WOW is not for you or me, Darkfall will not be for them. But for either them to say Darkfall sucks or us to say WOW sucks just because the game has features we don't enjoy is wrong IMO.

A game only sucks to me if it has tons of lag, horrible game play, tons of bugs, things that make it unplayable. Shadowbane comes to mind for one and somehow people on here love it... to me that game sucks because it has a horrible UI, click to move, horrible camera, bugs around every corner and so on. For any shadowbane player to say WOW sucks is just laughable.

[KaneK89]

WOW is not for you or me, Darkfall will not be for them. But for either them to say Darkfall sucks or us to say WOW sucks just because the game has features we don't enjoy is wrong IMO.

Someone saying something sucks is their opinion. I guess you don't believe in the first amendment? We have the right to speak our minds.

People can say Darkfall sucks all they want. It's still their opinion. And in my opinion, Darkfall, if it delivers on its' promises, will be the best game ever.

Edit: Shoes.

[Arravia]

I personally play WOW and don't focus on levels and PVP, I like to play the market. When I'm not playing the market I try to get certain items, and so forth, so in that respect it is a sandbox.

Erm...I don't think you're clear on the concept of a sandbox game...

[Arravia]

I guess you don't believe in the first amendment? We have the right to speak our minds.

Contrary to unpopular opinion, there is a world beyond the USA. These forums aren't even based here. Stop giving us Americans a bad name.

[mrbubbles]

Contrary to unpopular opinion, there is a world beyond the USA. These forums aren't even based here. Stop giving us Americans a bad name.


I know

[Synicall]

Ok, most people are ignorant fucks. Specially people who can say what they like over a forum and never face any consequences.

Truthfully wow is such a differant game to DFO but is placed in the same market. When some1 feels strongly about DFO they diss the competitors the major one being WOW. And they really sink their teeth into the major differances that they love in DFO over wow.

Ive played a wow character to level 70 and i believed the whole way that once i got to level 70 the end game pvp would be sweet. It really wasnt, it was still a grind, Im not saying that i didnt have fun with wow at certain times but its not the game for me, and its not the game for everyone else ere. Anyone who will post wow love on this forum will be shot down, im assuming people who put in DFO love on the blizzard forum would prolly be shot down aswell.

[Arravia]

I know

Never said you didn't.

[Machu]

Johnny you're a moron, and you're not staying on topic with what you're arguing.

We hate WOW, because of its PVP.

WOW has GEAR DEPENDENT PVP, in order to be good at PVP, you must PVE, and get good gear.

WOW's PVE sucks. You grind for all this epic gear, and then an expansion is released, and all your epics are replaced with blues.

This is why people hate WoW. The End.

BTW - This is my first post. I created an account to flame. Woo :bang:

[Blurtblurter]

I dont hate the player, just Blizard for making a game that dumbs down MMOs to a non thinking waste of time.

before EQ/WoW there were indeed games that needed thinking about. The Devs or EQ/WoW thought to maket games to the common denominators, eg Newspapers maket to a reading age of 13 year olds in the US, 15 in England, 25 in New Zealand, Australians dont read they grunt.

Eve Online is recently proving that this need not be the case, provide a sandbox game where the people run the markets and fight for resources, PvP anywhere and everywhere with minimal to maximin consequence depending on where you kill someone, the choices are always those of the players. The team of ppl that play intelligently are the ones that kick the most arse in the end. If you cant think then team up with ppl that do.

Sandbox games do not have a shelf life, they can, if tweaked consistantly, last forever. Players joining the game can follow good advice and get in a decent tactical killing setup usually within 6 months of playing.

I want all WoW, EQ and every other shitty 3rd rate EQ clone players to come to DFO and see what a real game is, from there we just let human nature take is cource.

[mrbubbles]

people who put in DFO love on the blizzard forum would prolly be shot down aswell.

Thats y we have good ol' darkfall forum

[o0pwnman0o]

you wanna really know why ill tell ya why heres how it works

forumfall
user 1 i dont like wow its features suck and it has to many carebears
user 2 yeah

forum craft??????
user 1 darkfall sucks i dont wanna play a game where i can be killed randomly and lose all my stuff
user 2 true dat

you see its a matter of what we like we dont like wow's features so were gonna play darkfall. they dont like what darkfall has so they are gonna play wow.

anyone understand

[KaneK89]

Contrary to unpopular opinion, there is a world beyond the USA. These forums aren't even based here. Stop giving us Americans a bad name.

Excuse me, Mr. Douchebag, the guy I was replying to is located in Miami, Florida. Stop being such a failure, please.

[Runomoro]

The reason everyone hates WoW here is because its what I'd call a polar opposite of Darkfall.

WoW is a game where time invested is more important than player skill. For all the dumbasses on here who've never played WoW end-game, it DOES require skill, but its more like 60% gear, 20% skill, 20% teamwork. Darkfall, as far as we know, is the opposite. Investing 5 hours to get amazing gear in DF won't do anything if you suck ass, it'll only make the risk of PVP go up.

WoW is also a game with no risk. The only risk in PVP in WoW is lost time, since it doesn't even lower durability on your gear. They added "rewards" for PVP, which are gear. The good side of this is that you can "PVP" constantly b/c people aren't afraid to do it, but the drawback is that it loses its enjoyment b/c there is no sense of accomplishment. DF is built on risk, being open-loot full PVP. In DF you can't list your tasks on a paper for the day and expect to do them in that order, because a turn of events can change your plans for better or worse. This makes daily life in DF unpredictable, which is new to a lot of gamers.

WoW is a game where your actions have no effect on the world. You don't control land, you don't change the environment by beating any end-game bosses, you don't "push back" the opposing faction by winning a battleground. The gameplay is controlled strictly by what the devs release in the next content patch. DF is once again the opposite. Having played on AC DT and SB, the game can be enjoyable for a long time without new content simply because of guild politics and land control. From what we've seen, DF has the potential to trump them both in this aspect.

WoW is a co-op linear RPG, which the option of fighting other players. DF is a world with a few rules where you can do what you want. IMO, they should probably be tagged with different genre titles since they are so different. I really don't hate WoW, I've just been waiting for the next great PVP game. End-game WoW PVE is kinda fun but requires a lot of time invested, and I didn't enjoy the PVP which is what I yearn for the most.

That said, 95% of people who flame WoW on this forum haven't even played the game, its just kiddies trying to fit in. Fanaticism is a sign of ignorance and closed-mindedness, so talking logically with them isn't going to work.

[Vidav]

YEAH! what the heck?! Less wow hate please! it's a good game and good people play it just like Darkfall is a good game and GOOD people WILL PLAY IT!:)

[Arravia]

Excuse me, Mr. Douchebag, the guy I was replying to is located in Miama, Florida. Stop being such a failure, please.

And I repeat: These forums aren't even based in the USA. And besides, if freedom of speech realy could be practiced fully on the internet, then the forums that were based in the USA wouldn't be permitted to delete posts and whatnot. So...I guess this whole argument is irrelivant.

Damn. Guess I need to put some extra points into my Resist Trolling skill.

YEAH! what the heck?! Less wow hate please! it's a good game and good people play it just like Darkfall is a good game and GOOD people WILL PLAY IT!:)

Grrr...must...resist...

[KaneK89]

YEAH! what the heck?! Less wow hate please! it's a good game and good people play it just like Darkfall is a good game and GOOD people WILL PLAY IT!:)

Everything about that post is incorrect.

Everyone knows WoW is full of immature 14 year olds who try to inflate their e-peen.

And everyone also know that Forumfall is filled with assholes and trolls. Subsequently, so will DF.

[nardagor]

WoW sucks becuase Blizzard sucks, and blizzard began to suck becuase of WoW.

[KaneK89]

And I repeat: These forums aren't even based in the USA. And besides, if freedom of speech realy could be practiced fully on the internet, then the forums that were based in the USA wouldn't be permitted to delete posts and whatnot. So...I guess this whole argument is irrelivant.

Damn. Guess I need to put some extra points into my Resist Trolling skill.



Grrr...must...resist...

Add some points into reading comprehension, too.

He didn't specifically state that "On these forums, someone saying WoW sucks is wrong" he simply said "Saying WoW sucks is wrong. This is paraphrased, of course.

In other words, simply speaking your mind about something is wrong.

Just wanted to add: You never said "These forums aren't in the US" or "These forums are privately owned, and aren't subject to the Constitution" so, in reality, you repeated nothing since you also didn't reiterate the "There's a world beyong the USA" statement from your other post.

[Arravia]

And everyone also know that Forumfall is filled with assholes and trolls. Subsequently, so will DF.

But atleast we'll be able to kill `em ingame. That's another advantage; you can deal with the a-holes sending you random PMs by bashing their heads in. You'll have to deal with the consequences, but still. :D

[Shane]

Hey Alucard, you going to lock this?

I'm pretty sure there was a lock last time that said "WoW has their own forums if you want to talk about them."

[Thee Leprechaun]

Yes, WE want a game with full loot, FPS skilled combat, tons of PVP and looting.

But, it does not mean WOW sucks. Just that WE don't want to play WOW.

There are choices in life, just because you don't like to eat apples, you like oranges, does it mean apples suck? NO, you just don't like one of them, but other people do.

yea so, fuck other people, most of us think WoW sucks, so therefore around here WoW sucks. If you love WoW so much then GTFO and let us enjoy our game we don't want your WoW ideals contaminated the holyness that is Dark Fall.

[KaneK89]

But atleast we'll be able to kill `em ingame. That's another advantage; you can deal with the a-holes sending you random PMs by bashing their heads in. You'll have to deal with the consequences, but still. :D

This, THIS, I agree with.

Can't wait to meet my first carebear in game talking about how the game sucks because of open PvP and/or full loot. RBD would be fun to kill as well.

Wouldn't mind seeing a Mirdain named "Legolas" out in the woods either.

[Surface]

Mainly it's people trying to fit in and jumping on the bandwagon. There are much worse and more 'carebear' games out there than World of Warcraft, but most here like to hate everything that's mainstream, despite whether it's good or bad, (don't get me wrong, I don't think WoW is good). If World of Warcraft had 100k subscribers, no one here would mention it.

[mrbubbles]

If i could build a "board of carebear skulls" it would be decorated within a week of the game release, assuming they're present

[Chomp]

I don't understand people who don't understand the WoW hate on these forums. It's like going on a forum dedicated to heavy metal and asking "what's up with all the hate against hip hop". It should be obvious that it's a matter of perspective. It's okay to say something sucks if, in your perspective, it sucks. And WoW does suck. It sucks huge, lathered, veiny horse balls. Horse balls so huge they would crush your head if dropped on it. Ginormous fucking horse balls.

[Rahkim]

Because WoW did absolutely nothing original, and yet people worship it as though it were the god of MMOs, despite being far far far inferior to almost every game before and after it.

The 4 million that play it have never gotten a chance to play better games, and likely never will. And cause WoWbies are so close minded they're always in shock and awe when someone suggests a something that isn't in WoW.

^^^^
Add in the fact that the entire market is being flooded with similar games due to WoWs success, and it makes original, hard games like Darkfall a rare find. Then we get the WoW kids coming over and trying to post on the original, hard game's forums about how it needs to be made more like WoW.

Some of us would prefer a challenge. We've done the grinding/raiding whatever thing, we've done broken pvp in other games, and we want something more. A game where you pay for mistakes, and winning has rewards. Where skill is the #1 factor.

[lordofkarma]

the problem with wow is that everything happens at max level.

now everytime you want to play a different character you gotta go thru the same identical path and kill the same stuff and redo the same quests over and over. it feels like a burden.

so ok you have a nice endgame pattern at max level. you have a bunch of different game, but the main game is:

GRIND

divided in subcategories:

grind gold

grind a profession or a profession item(farm for it)

grind pvp for more gear to make grinding more fun and faster

grind pve with a bunch of people you hate like hell 8 hours a day to get anywhere, or 8 hours per week if you want to take a year to get it done. sure make some friends in the way but i could do that in a chatroom or anywhere else so its not like it gets you anywhere in game anyway

grind reputations

all this to get 2 things: items and ''fame'' on your server. you do all this because you want to shine against everybody, you want them to say ''wowz hez got gearz!''

and gear to be able to do what .. farm better gear and be noticed(famed) on your server so that you can .. i dunno.. reach 2200 in pvp or kill illidan first in the world..

gear gear gear gear same canvas to get the gear...

yea its fun but goddamn it doesnt get you anywhere.. all that time you spend in a game and you dont control the world, you dont own the seas, you dont matter in politics of the world, you dont matter anywhere.

[mrbubbles]

WoW does suck. It sucks huge, lathered, veiny horse balls. Horse balls so huge they would crush your head if dropped on it. Ginormous fucking horse balls.
:lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:

[Sunabozu]

oh I dunno maybe because it broke down the MMORPG into simplistic repetitive bullshit.

[Bonney Goatbeard]

Only stupid people flame/attack games they dislike. I liked WoW, I like it to some degree still aswell but not enough to pick up WOTLK I know I am just going to quit.

The thing with WoW for me is the lack of world PvP and the item oriented aspect of the game, although the arena takes actually skill, those people who posted in the thread that it takes 0 skill to PvP in WoW are totally clueless.

This board is a cesspool of ignorant comments, mob mentality basically sheeps going all baa' meeeeh' which is sad to see.

People enjoy different games, that does not mean they are wrong, WoW is a good game, but not in the sense of a true MMORPG where the players should be the content.

I played most MMO's since UO, when my fun runs about I leave the game, I don't go QQ and flame like a immature kid.

[Blurtblurter]

Hate is a strong word for me sentiments, I am more "not give a flying fuck what WoW/EQ games do"

[KaneK89]

Only stupid people flame/attack games they dislike. I liked WoW, I like it to some degree still aswell but not enough to pick up WOTLK I know I am just going to quit.

The thing with WoW for me is the lack of world PvP and the item oriented aspect of the game, although the arena takes actually skill, those people who posted in the thread that it takes 0 skill to PvP in WoW are totally clueless.

Attacking the game, yes, it's stupid. Saying you dislike the game and would rather not have some of it's features isn't, however.

The arena takes skill? So, any 2 people can go in there and compete? Besides the need for gear, and the fact that there are combinations that dominate all others. But yeah, I suppose if two teams, both using whatever over-powered combination go in there with equal gear, it comes down to skill and luck. Can say that about any game, though.

BGs, and World PvP on the PvP servers take next to no skill. You are delusional if you believe it does.

[Jreed]

noone could get into a fun, mature endgame guild...the direct makeup of most forumfall posts explain why

[Starlance]

I personally think there is narrow-minded people on both sides of the fence.

WoW isn't a horrible game and does have its advantages, however its not a great game and probably not a good game either. Wow does have a greater than normal share of those who play just for e-peen, but there are many other age of player too, some are mature (however I've yet to meet someone other 45 (real age, not lvls :P) on WoW). And yes, WoW has many flaws with it, the item dependency is massive which of course is my greatest gripe. The death system leads to some people camp other people arses, especially if the victim is underequipped, due to the very nature of the game originality is dropped in flavour of cookie cutter builds, and not just because its class based. There is no real change to the world based off actions, again this is in the very nature of the game as its something that cannot be changed. However despite all that, I have found despite the annoyance of some very generic quests that there is some good storyline hiding in places where you can learn more about that world. Of course the point is you have to look, and it cannot compare to having a clean slate in which the story of the world can be written by the actions of players.

Personally I believe World Of Warcraft is more of a introduction into the MMO gamestyle, basically the "My first MMO" of MMO's, because its a rather easy game to play and not a huge amount of risk is involved. Some stay there content with its rather safe world and little risk while others search one for more risk and rewards, finding other games with different features such as full loot, or more open PvP.

Bear in mind, I'm not saying that everyone should play WoW first nor that its the best choice for a person looking to try out the MMORPG genre. It was certainly not my first MMO I played (Eve Online was my first).

Is WoW a horrible game? No
Is WoW a great game? No
Is WoW got good points? Yes
Is this enough to redeem is bad points? Not really

Lastly WoW is what I term MMOG (Massive Multiplayer Online Grind)

[Preka]

The "wow hate" is very simple to understand, really. You can see the same behavior in most middle school cafeterias. People erroneously believe that their personal tastes are objectively better and that by holding said beliefs, they, in turn, are objectively better. Similarly other people's tastes are objectively bad and those who hold them are, by association, also objectively bad.

It's essentially the same thing as the school kids who are ostracized for not liking the "right" music/movies/tv shows/clothing brands/etc.

It's also highly amusing when you run into people who didn't outgrow it back in their teens.

[Secret]

Well like i said i only played it like once at a friends house and it seemed fun, but I just dont get why alot of the time people get told to go back to wow. it really honestly isnt that poor of a game and its better than nothing especially if ur waiting for dfo to come out.

and i dont get why wow players get insulted. if u dont like wow dont play it, no reason to constantly say 'go back to wow' to players who never played it

[Stiletto]

The massive effect WoW has had on the genre (people don't want to diverge to far from WoW, because Wow is the proven model).

This exactly. I hate WoW becuase it has poisoned the genre. WoW is great if you like that style of gameplay. I dont. But now thanks to the success of WoW every company that decides to make an MMO patterns it after WoW. So people who dont like that kind of game get the shaft.

Case point. Look at Warhammer Online. Warhammer could possibly be the single coolest fantasy IP ever. Yet Mythic managed to completely fuck up that game by blatantly cloning it from WoW.

[corza334]

Because most people are too ignorant of the success and attention WoW has drawn to the genre, and refuse to accept it. It's not a great MMO, granted - but the people that flame it and constantly scream "Go back to WoW" at any sign of negativity towards Darkfall, seriously need to get out more.

All games have their pro's and con's, Darkfall will too... No game is for everyone - this doesn't automatically place them under a carebear catagory... it just seem's like the entire forum is stuck in a one joke skit.

And I really don't give a shit if people flame this post... "Ah, the text is burning my eye balls?". Sticks n' Stones...

[Preka]

This exactly. I hate WoW becuase it has poisoned the genre. WoW is great if you like that style of gameplay. I dont. But now thanks to the success of WoW every company that decides to make an MMO patterns it after WoW. So people who dont like that kind of game get the shaft.

Case point. Look at Warhammer Online. Warhammer could possibly be the single coolest fantasy IP ever. Yet Mythic managed to completely fuck up that game by blatantly cloning it from WoW.

:rolleyes: If you want to be like that about it, it would be more accurate to blame Everquest. WoW is essentially a highly polished Everquest clone, and this is most likely because EQ was, far and away, the most successful of the first generation MMOs.

WoW took the same formula, nipped here, tucked there, and spit it back out and was wildly successful with it.

However, it's stupid to blame either EQ or WoW for the popularity of a model. If you want to blame someone, blame the millions of people who are fine playing a formulaic remake of another game. The companies are merely supplying to meet demand.

[Oiparn]

I dislike WoW for one main reason: PvP is second place to PvE.

I participated in the closed WoW Beta and I watched the promising PvP aspects fall to the wayside. Originally all of WoW was to be an open RvR where territories would shift and PvP had meaning (you could collect "kill badges" etc for rankings).

Then the carebears started systematically nerfchanting to the devs... and the devs listened.

The bland, vanilla, catering to the lowest common denominator, mass marketed moneymaker that is WoW today is due to the nerf herders that are the WoW fanbase and to the spineless devs at blizzard who cater to them.

[Runomoro]

:rolleyes: If you want to be like that about it, it would be more accurate to blame everquest. Wow is essentially a highly polished everquest clone, and this is most likely because eq was, far and away, the most successful of the first generation mmos.

Wow took the same formula, nipped here, tucked there, and spit it back out and was wildly successful with it.

However, it's stupid to blame either eq or wow for the popularity of a model. If you want to blame someone, blame the millions of people who are fine playing a formulaic remake of another game. The companies are merely supplying to meet demand.


qft

[Quanta]

This exactly. I hate WoW becuase it has poisoned the genre. WoW is great if you like that style of gameplay. I dont. But now thanks to the success of WoW every company that decides to make an MMO patterns it after WoW. So people who dont like that kind of game get the shaft.

WoW didn't do shit; the genre was already poisoned when every game coming out wanted to be EQ. All WoW did was take EQ and make massive improvements upon it, and it's done well as a result. It also resurrected PvP in the process; maybe not the best kind of PvP, but it's a hell of a lot better now than it was 4 years ago, where the only PvP available was in niche games or side areas ala RvR.

[Ellyria]

WoW is pretty devoid of meaning. The actual game isn't even that interesting. Diversity in content? Unique gear? New, exciting boss fights in each dungeon? Constantly evolving team-based PvP?

It's all an illusion, and once you put in a hundred days /played or so, you'll definitely see why it isn't that great. Themepark? Yeah, that's a good way of putting it. There's no reason to keep going in when you've memorized the rides, and the new ones are just the old ones with new paint.

Killing a boss that no one else on the server has killed, completing the entire PvE game with your guild before anyone else can come close, beating out 99% of other arena teams and making Gladiator for the season - getting 8/8 T6, and knowing how to get a group of people to level a new character 1-70 in 36 hours... It can be exciting at first, but the charm is very, very fleeting. There is no freedom. There is no reason to play - the only reason to advance your character at all is so that you may have the opportunity to further advance your character.

And in the event you do reach the top in that game, all that is left is a chat room in a themepark where every ride has lost it's luster.

It's a game about stringing people along for the ride for as long as possible, and nothing more - and it's so shallow that it's easy to see this.

Basically, WoW is the matrix. It's too limited, and people need to wake up and set themselves free. Man, that sounds dramatic.

[nathanpinard]

I will admit, I've met some interesting people on WoW. Mainly a game producer for Cabal Online, and the prince of Bahrain was in my guild.

Not to mention some pretty hot women play WoW.

[KaneK89]

Because most people are too ignorant of the success and attention WoW has drawn to the genre, and refuse to accept it. It's not a great MMO, granted - but the people that flame it and constantly scream "Go back to WoW" at any sign of negativity towards Darkfall, seriously need to get out more.

All games have their pro's and con's, Darkfall will too... No game is for everyone - this doesn't automatically place them under a carebear catagory... it just seem's like the entire forum is stuck in a one joke skit.

And I really don't give a shit if people flame this post... "Ah, the text is burning my eye balls?". Sticks n' Stones...

No, anyone who plays MMOs probably knows of WoW's success. A lot of people that scream "Go back to WoW" aren't doing it for any good reason. It's mostly trolling. In some cases, it fits perfectly. Someone asking for safe zones, toggleable PvP, uber items, no looting, etc., are carebears, and have many carebear games to play that cater to their desires. There is no reason for them to be here trying to change the game design. Thus, they should go back to WoW, or whatever carebear game they play that hooked them on the no-risk-all-reward system they're accustomed to.

Other than this, I agree with you.

[Signus]

Its 11 million that play it man. 2.8 million bought the new expansion within 24 hours. IDK where you got 4 million....

Let WOW players worry about if the game is good or not. You aren't playing it right? So why do you care if they have fun in that game? I tell my friends to try other games, if they want to stick with WOW, its their choice. Its only a game, if they like that game more than another, oh well, not my problem.

You say "WOWbies" are closed minded. But everyone on here saying WOW sucks, most of them say it is because it is not UO. That is more closed minded to me. You are trying to say every MMORPG has to be full loot, have open PVP and be like UO. Why? Some people don't like UO or that type of game play, so that is why they play other games.

For one person running a mile a day everyday for years is fun, for another he thinks that's not fun. Is the runner stupid? is running stupid because you don't like to run?

You guys make no sense. if people enjoy WOW, let them enjoy it. You find something else to enjoy and let them be. Go play UO like I said, why are you on here, UO is the best ever, go play it man.....

You missed so many points its not even worth making a mile long bullet list and pointing them out.

WoW is an abomination in the industry, and as long as companies keep trying to cater to the WoW kiddies, who don't even play MMOs, we'll continue to get shitty games, like we have in the 4 years since WoW.

[nathanpinard]

You missed so many points its not even worth making a mile long bullet list and pointing them out.

WoW is an abomination in the industry, and as long as companies keep trying to cater to the WoW kiddies, who don't even play MMOs, we'll continue to get shitty games, like we have in the 4 years since WoW.

I dont' really consider WoW an abomination. Maybe to the MMO industry, but not the Role Playing industry, which is where this all started.

Fantasy Role Playing has always been about loot and questing honestly.

[Quanta]

Fantasy Role Playing has always been about loot and questing honestly.

If you're a powergaming munchkin with no imagination, sure. However, if you're the sort who enjoys a good narrative with interesting characters, I doubt you'll see things that way. ;)

[Stiletto]

:rolleyes: If you want to be like that about it, it would be more accurate to blame Everquest. WoW is essentially a highly polished Everquest clone, and this is most likely because EQ was, far and away, the most successful of the first generation MMOs.

WoW took the same formula, nipped here, tucked there, and spit it back out and was wildly successful with it.

However, it's stupid to blame either EQ or WoW for the popularity of a model. If you want to blame someone, blame the millions of people who are fine playing a formulaic remake of another game. The companies are merely supplying to meet demand.

True enough about EQ. And I do indeed feel the same way about that game. However I dont agree about the state of the market.

This is a case of the supply dictating the demand as opposed to the other way around like it should be. Or in other words the game companies are deciding what is going to be popular for us. This is pretty common in music and movies. But in those industries every now and then something will come along and break the mold and manage to become popular on its own merits. Then of course its a scramble to copy that success and the cycle repeats.

And thats what the MMO genre is in need of. Some darkhorse to come along and break the mold and achieve mass success and open the door to letting new ideas into the genre. But until that happens we are doomed to endure wave after wave of the same old rehashed crap.

[[DJ]Hugo]

Blizzard took the single greatest delusion there is and put it into a polished game which couldn't fail.

The number one thing which drives most gamers in MMOs is that 'feeling'. The feeling of being one of those dudes at top level in top gear, owning it up. Those guys you see at banks and those guys making PvP videos on youtube with their uber looking armour and disgusting high damage skills with their perfect talent trees and their pretty UIs.

They took that essence of lust and envy and sugar coated the end game to such a degree, and totally sucked us all into this fantasy that we were going to be the best. And they made it obtainable. Obtainable for any of us with the time and patience and once we got there we all quit. Some mainted their hard on for it and continue to to this day.

In most MMOs of the EQ genre. We don't play primarily for fun. Yes most of us are in denial saying that we are, but we dont. Picture 10million people playing WoW everday without that item drop, or that level up...wouldnt happen (In UO however we didn't play for shiny things, or skill...we just played).

We want to be the top level guys, in the top level gear, with that stupid sense of fucking superiority and achievement and raiding for that 'one' weapon which people will inspect our paperdolls for 50 times an hour.

I remember that feeling in UO. Yet the people you saw at the bank or you dreaded to see outside of guardzones. Those guys who were the same build and strength as you, yet could kill you and 2 others like you at the same time, 50 times out of 50. They looked so powerful with their little pixelated haircuts, and infamous names.

All in all. MMO gaming is a sad affair. But atleast the PvPers back in the day did something more to earn their 'hero' status. And they did it playing a few hours a night...not all day.

Wow is fucking cocaine. You'll go through bag after bag looking for that first high and your just gonna end up in a world of pain. A gaming career in World of Warcraft has no future...It's as persistant as Blizzard keep updating with stupid expansions, new classes and new lootz.

A good sandbox game is persistant. Possibilities are endless.

[Ellyria]

Hugo;2034564']Blizzard took the single greatest delusion there is and put it into a polished game which couldn't fail.

The number one thing which drives most gamers in MMOs is that 'feeling'. The feeling of being one of those dudes at top level in top gear, owning it up. Those guys you see at banks and those guys making PvP videos on youtube with their uber looking armour and disgusting high damage skills with their perfect talent trees and their pretty UIs.

They took that essence of lust and envy and sugar coated the end game to such a degree, and totally sucked us all into this fantasy that we were going to be the best. And they made it obtainable. Obtainable for any of us with the time and patience and once we got there we all quit. Some mainted their hard on for it and continue to to this day.

In most MMOs of the EQ genre. We don't play primarily for fun. Yes most of us are in denial saying that we are, but we dont. Picture 10million people playing WoW everday without that item drop, or that level up...wouldnt happen (In UO however we didn't play for shiny things, or skill...we just played).

We want to be the top level guys, in the top level gear, with that stupid sense of fucking superiority and achievement and raiding for that 'one' weapon which people will inspect our paperdolls for 50 times an hour.

I remember that feeling in UO. Yet the people you saw at the bank or you dreaded to see outside of guardzones. Those guys who were the same build and strength as you, yet could kill you and 2 others like you at the same time, 50 times out of 50. They looked so powerful with their little pixelated haircuts, and infamous names.

All in all. MMO gaming is a sad affair. But atleast the PvPers back in the day did something more to earn their 'hero' status. And they did it playing a few hours a night...not all day.

Wow is fucking cocaine. You'll go through bag after bag looking for that first high and your just gonna end up in a world of pain. A gaming career in World of Warcraft has no future...It's as persistant as Blizzard keep updating with stupid expansions, new classes and new lootz.

A good sandbox game is persistant. Possibilities are endless.

Agree 100%. You articulated it far better than I did.

[Reichsdiener]

I dont' really consider WoW an abomination. Maybe to the MMO industry, but not the Role Playing industry, which is where this all started.

Fantasy Role Playing has always been about loot and questing honestly.

I have to disagree there. I've played RPG's my entire life and admittedly am more of a coop PvE player, but WoW doesn't deliver on that. Which is what most people are saying WoW is about. Well, sorry, WoW PvE sucks and so I end up playing the PvP part most of the time (back then when I've played it). Me, a PvE player. GG.

Also, there's literally zero roleplaying happening in that game, and I played on a RP-server. GG.

WoW is mostly a phenomenon and a cash-cow. Played by loads of non-gamers because "that's what the cool kids do". This is all supported by the fact that WoW runs on crappy computers that non-gamers have. People saying it's the bestesht game probably have never played an actual game worthy of that title. There are so many flaws in it it's not even funny, just imagine you're making a game, and what you'd come up with is so very different. Of course, you'd create it with the intention of making an awesome, fun game. Now count together 1+1 and you see what's behind WoW.

[MMO-Rogue]

I can't hate WOW. I never played it.

But I have seen enough people who WOW was their first MMO and everywhere they go they arrive with nothing but baggage resulting in their view being everything has to relate back to WOW.

So I don't hate WOW just people who want every game to be an iteration of WOW.

[Vessol]

its the cool thing to do

all the people who don't want to be flamed join in

like a herd of sheep

*BAAAHH* WOW SUX *BAAAHHH* I HAVE NO INDIVIDUAL THOUGHT PROCESS *BAHHH*

[Secret]

I have to disagree there. I've played RPG's my entire life and admittedly am more of a coop PvE player, but WoW doesn't deliver on that. Which is what most people are saying WoW is about. Well, sorry, WoW PvE sucks and so I end up playing the PvP part most of the time (back then when I've played it). Me, a PvE player. GG.

Also, there's literally zero roleplaying happening in that game, and I played on a RP-server. GG.

WoW is mostly a phenomenon and a cash-cow. Played by loads of non-gamers because "that's what the cool kids do". This is all supported by the fact that WoW runs on crappy computers that non-gamers have. People saying it's the bestesht game probably have never played an actual game worthy of that title. There are so many flaws in it it's not even funny, just imagine you're making a game, and what you'd come up with is so very different. Of course, you'd create it with the intention of making an awesome, fun game. Now count together 1+1 and you see what's behind WoW.


i dont think wow is considered that cool...atleast not b4 they released this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4ozngVpOI4)

[Riss0]

Most of the people that are attracted to this game are people that hate everything about WoW and well i guess if a bunch of WoW players came to DF and whined for Safe Zones and No Full Loot about 95% of the loyal players would fucking hate it...

Exactly but adding on to that WoW = shit.
wow is a time consuming carebear game with no real PvP (full loot, no safe zones, fps combat)

[nathanpinard]

I honestly didn't mind WoW at all. I played it mainly because my friends played it, then I made more friends within the guild.

WoW honestly was great...up to TBC. When they removed 40man raids it got worse.

Overall, like any game WoW got boring. I enjoyed MC and BWL, but after that I wanted something new.

[thaull]

Imagine how embaressed the actors that are paid to talk about the game acting like they actually play it are? Seriously, William Shatner is a tauren shaman. Why the hell would William Shatner actually play online games? It must be so degrading for them, even though the amount of money they spend on them won't cure that permanent bruise that was inflicted on their hearts when they talked about WoW on the commercials. It's so pathetic that Blizzard knows WoW is dying, so they waste their whole money from innocent people on fuckin' famous actors. It gets me so damn pissed how low Blizzard will go to get more subscribers. My little bro is now playing WoW after quitting because he saw those actors talking about the game and he thought he could be as cool as them. He fuckin' rolled a tauren shaman, even though he can't stand that class. Why the fuck did Blizzard do that shit? They're now spending the money of my bro and other innocent people on worthless propoganda, so that they can save their asses from a dying game. I fuckin' hate them so much right now! :bang:

[Secret]

Imagine how embaressed the actors that are paid to talk about the game acting like they actually play it are? Seriously, William Shatner is a tauren shaman. Why the hell would William Shatner actually play online games? It must be so degrading for them, even though the amount of money they spend on them won't cure that permanent bruise that was inflicted on their hearts when they talked about WoW on the commercials. It's so pathetic that Blizzard knows WoW is dying, so they waste their whole money from innocent people on fuckin' famous actors. It gets me so damn pissed how low Blizzard will go to get more subscribers. My little bro is now playing WoW after quitting because he saw those actors talking about the game and he thought he could be as cool as them. He fuckin' rolled a tauren shaman, even though he can't stand that class. Why the fuck did Blizzard do that shit? They're now spending the money of my bro and other innocent people on worthless propoganda, so that they can save their asses from a dying game. I fuckin' hate them so much right now! :bang:


u know why dont they get actual actors who play the games like Jackie from that 70s show. she really plays, get her to do a commercial

[Quanta]

Imagine how embaressed the actors that are paid to talk about the game acting like they actually play it are? Seriously, William Shatner is a tauren shaman. Why the hell would William Shatner actually play online games? It must be so degrading for them, even though the amount of money they spend on them won't cure that permanent bruise that was inflicted on their hearts when they talked about WoW on the commercials. It's so pathetic that Blizzard knows WoW is dying, so they waste their whole money from innocent people on fuckin' famous actors. It gets me so damn pissed how low Blizzard will go to get more subscribers. My little bro is now playing WoW after quitting because he saw those actors talking about the game and he thought he could be as cool as them. He fuckin' rolled a tauren shaman, even though he can't stand that class. Why the fuck did Blizzard do that shit? They're now spending the money of my bro and other innocent people on worthless propoganda, so that they can save their asses from a dying game. I fuckin' hate them so much right now! :bang:
What makes you think those actors don't actually play the game?

[ColonelTEE3]

Whats with all the wow hate in the forums? All I see everywhere are posts about how people should go back to playing wow, how wow sucks. I went along with it for a while b/c i didnt want to get flamed but no more! Im taking a stand. What the hell is up with everyone disliking wow players? Ive only played wow once at a friends house (where I play most pay 2 play games, he subscribes to everything) because i am too cheap, it didnt seem all that bad in all honesty. the graphics were ok, the people seemed rather funny, and the fighting wasnt bad. I mean they must be doing something right with 4 million subscribers!(I didnt count asian gold farmers)

So can someone please answer whats with the wow hate?
Is it the grinding? yes wow is a grind fest, but I dont expect darkfall will be all that different. I mean you will have to 'grind' by fighting goblins to get your skill up so that you can have high enough skill levels to fight other players. Infact real life is a grind too. You study so you get better test scores, you work out to increase your strength, its all a grind so whats the problem?

I don't know about everyone else, but this is why i hate WoW.

WoW is care bear archetype imo. It stands for everything DF is trying to fight; safe zones/devs protecting players too pathetic to fight for themselves, masses of weak, ignorant, whiney people who, because they all whine for the same thing, make the game more and more carebear.

My fear is that enough WoW people, those whiney, weak minded, immediate-gratification-seeking bastards will start to account for too much of this game's subscription, and therefore, too much of this game's community voice, and they will ruin this Eden that we have been promised.

[Mad Z]

WoW is such a simple-minded game. Roleplay in WoW is not enjoyable due to massive 13-year-old base, who will always spoil the moment for you, and all characters look alike. PvP is just button-mashing, only a litle more organized (you follow an order). Armor is the only important thing there (that finished me).

In Darkfall you can PvP with all your skills at 0%, that's what I love about it. You are wrong about skills in DF. I personally will raise my skills for roleplay, I am my clan's Archmage, so I have to have an impressive array of skills to represent my position. Also armor in DF will not play much role at all.

To finalize this, I think that WoW is a game for the unsophisticated, for the people who don't want to use the best, but a ready to be satisfied by the bad and mediocre.

[Mo0rbid]

Becase people on this forum hate is just to be percieved as "cool" and "alternative" when in fact they're just bored of the game

[frog]

Because WoW is everything that is evil in the mmorpg world.

[MindOverSword]

because it is, in their eyes (and mine), boring and repetitive. I won't bother explaining why here, unless you ask me to. The fact that it's boring to them makes it a game that they do not enjoy playing, obviously. However, many people love this type of game and absolutely shun any other type of games, even if they have not tried it. The fact that it is popular and that there are many fanboys who won't even glance at anything else than WoW and its clones favors the creation of more WoW clones. The ressources spent on WoW clones could be spent on different games, if WoW wasn't so successful. Meaning WoW, in a way, has killed numerous games that could have been a source of enjoyment for us.

[Signus]

Becase people on this forum hate is just to be percieved as "cool" and "alternative" when in fact they're just bored of the game

Uh wrong.. I never got bored of WoW, because I never liked WoW, because its a poor game. And yes, I do hate its popularity, because it doesn't deserve it. Its just a watered down kiddie game that caters to the masses.

[battlesteve]

The main reason besides the grind fest, and the patches trying to please all the rp/carebear's is the fact that almost everyone on these forums sucked comeplete dong at WoW. Like they were bad bad, they were full s2 bad, and thats BAD. They didnt get a single title, presumed its the game fault, and i "shouldnt have to grind to get gear" (dont blame them). But aswell, WoW is the number 1 MMORPG right now so people will automatically hate it. Not to mention they blew nuts at the game

[Corwen]

It's the opposite take on MMO's than this game.

Which is why most people who prefer 'this' type of game don't 'prefer' that one.

[XellKhaar]

Whats with all the wow hate in the forums? All I see everywhere are posts about how people should go back to playing wow, how wow sucks. I went along with it for a while b/c i didnt want to get flamed but no more! Im taking a stand. What the hell is up with everyone disliking wow players? Ive only played wow once at a friends house (where I play most pay 2 play games, he subscribes to everything) because i am too cheap, it didnt seem all that bad in all honesty. the graphics were ok, the people seemed rather funny, and the fighting wasnt bad. I mean they must be doing something right with 4 million subscribers!(I didnt count asian gold farmers)

So can someone please answer whats with the wow hate?
Is it the grinding? yes wow is a grind fest, but I dont expect darkfall will be all that different. I mean you will have to 'grind' by fighting goblins to get your skill up so that you can have high enough skill levels to fight other players. Infact real life is a grind too. You study so you get better test scores, you work out to increase your strength, its all a grind so whats the problem?

I hate it because it's popular and doesn't deserve to be popular. I've played many MMOs and WoW was only average. I don't hate it because it's a bad game, I hate it because everyone thinks it's awesome when it's only mediocre.

And honestly, by only playing it "once at a friend's house"; you arn't really in the position to judge whether it's good or bad. Play it for a long period of time, and then play something good and you'll see why everyone here hates it.

Oh and I'd hardly call WoW a grindfest.. you can get to 70 in like a few days.. the only thing you can really grind for is gear.

[Felidaeus]

See, some of us play wow because it is the ultimate extension of a franchise that we have followed since the days of the original warcraft. Just as some people go out and buy the newest book in a series, or go see the newest movie, some people play games because they are attached to the story. The entire purpose of wow, for those of us following it since it was ANNOUNCED, was to take part in the wow lore. To be a part of a universe that epitomized epic storytelling in the gaming genre. Yes, there are idiotic fetch quests and endless grinding, but it was worth it to see thrall, to experience stratholme, to go and /rasp illidan. Heck, I never bothered getting to 70 until WOTLK (burning crusade sucks A**! Although caverns of time are cool).

So as for me, I can't say wow is awesome. I can't say that it is even a GREAT game. Wrath of the lich king, however, feels kind of like a culmination of the series. The scale of everything COMPLETELY overshadows every other rpg I've played (lots of them). It is really the spiritual successor of warcraft III.

I've been following darkfall since that ign article a couple years back on "great upcoming mmos", and have been looking forward to a game where I can actually appreciate the gameplay and MAKE the story.

Also, I can play wow multiplayer while on a work term in bc with all my buddies in ontario. Not at the moment though. Left 4 dead rocks.

[Xzi]

See, some of us play wow because it is the ultimate extension of a franchise that we have followed since the days of the original warcraft. Just as some people go out and buy the newest book in a series, or go see the newest movie, some people play games because they are attached to the story. The entire purpose of wow, for those of us following it since it was ANNOUNCED, was to take part in the wow lore. To be a part of a universe that epitomized epic storytelling in the gaming genre. Yes, there are idiotic fetch quests and endless grinding, but it was worth it to see thrall, to experience stratholme, to go and /rasp illidan. Heck, I never bothered getting to 70 until WOTLK (burning crusade sucks A**! Although caverns of time are cool).

So as for me, I can't say wow is awesome. I can't say that it is even a GREAT game. Wrath of the lich king, however, feels kind of like a culmination of the series. The scale of everything COMPLETELY overshadows every other rpg I've played (lots of them). It is really the spiritual successor of warcraft III.

I've been following darkfall since that ign article a couple years back on "great upcoming mmos", and have been looking forward to a game where I can actually appreciate the gameplay and MAKE the story.

Also, I can play wow multiplayer while on a work term in bc with all my buddies in ontario. Not at the moment though. Left 4 dead rocks.
That's pretty much the reason I played WoW for a while. I played all the games, and read all the books. So I wanted to see what they would do with the story in World of Warcraft.

And I'll tell you what they did...they completely FUCKED IT UP. It's bad enough that they did a horrible job with the gameplay, but they had to mess up even some of the good story elements from previous games/books. I hate new Blizzard. :bang:

Thus the reason I quit.

[Natdaprat]

To the OP: You cannot judge why we dislike or hate WoW with a passion until you have - like us - spent too much time and too much money on it. I won't go into it in detail as everyone on this thread has already gone over it.

[flobman]

Because it's shit, and when you quit you realise just how much of a waste of time it was, plus it takes 0 skill

[Zwarp]

because it sucks ballz, except to newcomers to the MMO gaming genre.

[Alandar]

So can someone please answer whats with the wow hate?


WoW may be successful but, that does not make it a good game. It merely makes it a trend, because everyone is doing it. If you think about it a very high percentage is made up of people who never even touched an MMO. WoW is popular because of the name Blizzard, the name Warcraft and all the funding they received for advertising.

[strayfe]

This can sum it up:

"hate It Or Love It, The Underdogs On Top
and Im Gon' Shine Homie Until My Heart Stop
go Head Envy Me, Im Raps Mvp
and I Aint Goin Nowhere So You Can Get To Know Me"

Same concept as why people hate WOW. People always hate things that are doing good or on top. Countries, People, Games, Athletes, anything.

Things that have a bunch of haters are usually thinsg that are doing very well and successful.

I don't like WOW and don't play it, but I don't hate it either, no reason to.

"Hater:

A person who feels anger and/or jealousy for someone who has succeeded in something they have worked hard for.
A being who speaks badly,and/or takes negative actions in attempt to create problems for a successful person. "

Nice way of thinking about it, why hate it? That just puts an arrow on your head saying that you are a jelous SOB. I try to root for athletes but even the guys I want to lose, I still respect because of there detication, hard work, and drive to be better.

Similar with WoW, but it is already the best in terms of commercial success for MMO's. I played it a while, but quit quite a while ago, I cant say I like WoW anymore, but hating something you arent into is stupid.

Point is, I wouldnt be displeased if WoW all of a sudden took a HUGE hit backwards, but I wouldnt be cheering either. Also and unfortunantly even within athletes, some tend to rub there greatness in peoples faces, not all, but a few, and then they become "ALL THE TALK" And even if you dont hate the guy, you are upset because there name is always in your face.

This probably discribes me best, I dont like WoW, I dont hate it, but I am pissed because the talk is always there and frankly is pretty dumb, Well thats not true, its actually fucking pointless. Too bad my post wont make any of the haters any smarter, I dont mind fainbois, you should be allowed to love a game thats for you, but haters are just missing some large chunk of their brain.

The only time I approve of haters is in football, because football rocks, and im not talking about soccer. but for MMO's you haters need to shut off the computer for at least 1 hour a day, and go get laid, if you cant get a steady girlfriend, go get a hooker... At least when you get staff infection and aids, you will die so we dont half to hear your poinltess hate.

Look at that, I just became a hater of hater, The only difference is people who hate on haters are not jelous of them, they question themselves as to how such people exist so obviously shitty like the mold that grows on bread.

[Zonack]

Whats with all the wow hate in the forums? All I see everywhere are posts about how people should go back to playing wow, how wow sucks. I went along with it for a while b/c i didnt want to get flamed but no more! Im taking a stand. What the hell is up with everyone disliking wow players? Ive only played wow once at a friends house (where I play most pay 2 play games, he subscribes to everything) because i am too cheap, it didnt seem all that bad in all honesty. the graphics were ok, the people seemed rather funny, and the fighting wasnt bad. I mean they must be doing something right with 4 million subscribers!(I didnt count asian gold farmers)

So can someone please answer whats with the wow hate?
Is it the grinding? yes wow is a grind fest, but I dont expect darkfall will be all that different. I mean you will have to 'grind' by fighting goblins to get your skill up so that you can have high enough skill levels to fight other players. Infact real life is a grind too. You study so you get better test scores, you work out to increase your strength, its all a grind so whats the problem?

I was wondering that myself, but hey everyone is in their right to hate what they like, sure they all say the game sucks and so... now does that makes it true? That's another story :D
It's sucky for THEM, but not for other people, just like for other people Darkfall looks like another CRAP MMO, and they continue to play WoW, EQ2, Eve or whatever MMO you name.
There's no best game, just different tastes.. and yes there are people who like leveling, who like doing PvE, instances and raids and they get insulted for it, I mean if they have fun... is it wrong?
It's just like some WoW players come here and say ''Lol Darkfall players are a bunch of fucktards who think they are ''badass'' by playing on a FFA PvP game...'' and some other ppl will say ''PvP sucks!''

Different opinions, and everyone will think they are right.

WoW players will think that WoW has the perfect PvE system and an the exact measure of PvP.
Everquest players will think their game is the best.
Darkfall players will think their game is the best.

And so on... it's a never ending battle of insults because people are having fun in another games.

I don't see why WoW affects some people here at the point that they have to unleash the fury against it..
But then again they are in their freedom to do so and they should not be questioned :D

[Laiziras]

The main reason besides the grind fest, and the patches trying to please all the rp/carebear's is the fact that almost everyone on these forums sucked comeplete dong at WoW. Like they were bad bad, they were full s2 bad, and thats BAD. They didnt get a single title, presumed its the game fault, and i "shouldnt have to grind to get gear" (dont blame them). But aswell, WoW is the number 1 MMORPG right now so people will automatically hate it. Not to mention they blew nuts at the game


Large amount of players does not equal good

[I_Zodiac_I]

IDC , i've only played wow a little much time. I Dont got anything against wow or wow players. i just need my beta. GTFO!@#



`Zodiac.

[Sandyar]

Large amount of players does not equal good

Actually its a rule: "Large amount of players equals bad game"

[Quanta]

WoW may be successful but, that does not make it a good game. It merely makes it a trend, because everyone is doing it. If you think about it a very high percentage is made up of people who never even touched an MMO. WoW is popular because of the name Blizzard, the name Warcraft and all the funding they received for advertising.
Yeah, but just because it's popular or a trend doesn't make it bad, either. Most of the people saying WoW is bad aren't assessing the game as a whole; they focus on PvP, or they focus on the grind, or they focus on raiding, or otherwise narrow their focus to the one or two areas they actually care about. They don't take a moment to just take a few steps back, and analyze the game as a whole, because when you do that, you start to realize that there's a lot of different systems that make up WoW, and some of them have been really damned good ideas and good for the genre in general.

For example, people here decry safe zones as a bad thing, but they're just one of the systems in place that has helped in bringing PvP back to the spotlight. Through the use of safe zones, Blizzard has given players on PvP servers a small window of opportunity to get used to playing the game before exposing them to the harsher climate of contested areas, where they can be killed at any given time by other players. As a result, they'll be more prepared than if they had just created their character and gotten one-shot by someone hanging about in the newbie zone, and are more likely to actually participate in PvP in the future. Getting more people to PvP should be a good thing for people who claim to love it so much; it means more targets, more challengers, and, in DF, more loot. ;)

I'm not saying that overall it's good or bad or whatever, but I'm not naive enough to believe that some good hasn't come out of the game's existence in the last 4 years.

[Alandar]

I'm not saying that overall it's good or bad or whatever, but I'm not naive enough to believe that some good hasn't come out of the game's existence in the last 4 years.

Well it has definitely brought more people to the MMO market than were previously interested. Like I said before though, the game is popular because of the name, not game play. People keep their subscriptions because they have something that the family can play together or they are in a guild that still plays the game.

[Quanta]

Well it has definitely brought more people to the MMO market than were previously interested. Like I said before though, the game is popular because of the name, not game play. People keep their subscriptions because they have something that the family can play together or they are in a guild that still plays the game.
Poor gameplay isn't going to maintain subscriptions though, nor are the social connections on their own. I loved my guild in WoW and I still quit, but that doesn't mean I still don't chat it up with them and see how things are progressing. I doubt that my case is atypical either, given the number of gaming groups that have existed over the years where the bonds between players are almost unshakable; why would they abandon those ties suddenly because they needed a break?

[nickcnew]

Whats with all the wow hate in the forums? All I see everywhere are posts about how people should go back to playing wow, how wow sucks. I went along with it for a while b/c i didnt want to get flamed but no more! Im taking a stand. What the hell is up with everyone disliking wow players? Ive only played wow once at a friends house (where I play most pay 2 play games, he subscribes to everything) because i am too cheap, it didnt seem all that bad in all honesty. the graphics were ok, the people seemed rather funny, and the fighting wasnt bad. I mean they must be doing something right with 4 million subscribers!(I didnt count asian gold farmers)

So can someone please answer whats with the wow hate?
Is it the grinding? yes wow is a grind fest, but I dont expect darkfall will be all that different. I mean you will have to 'grind' by fighting goblins to get your skill up so that you can have high enough skill levels to fight other players. Infact real life is a grind too. You study so you get better test scores, you work out to increase your strength, its all a grind so whats the problem?


I have NEVER played WOW and I hate it......now that is strange

[Alandar]

Poor gameplay isn't going to maintain subscriptions though, nor are the social connections on their own. I loved my guild in WoW and I still quit, but that doesn't mean I still don't chat it up with them and see how things are progressing. I doubt that my case is atypical either, given the number of gaming groups that have existed over the years where the bonds between players are almost unshakable; why would they abandon those ties suddenly because they needed a break?

You would be surprised how many people continue playing a crappy game just because it's what they are use to. It's just like an old man that has done the same thing every day for 40 years. It becomes Habit.

[Quanta]

You would be surprised how many people continue playing a crappy game just because it's what they are use to. It's just like an old man that has done the same thing every day for 40 years. It becomes Habit.
Nah, I know there's people like that, but I don't think they're the majority of the disenfranchised, especially amongst gamers, who probably have a sizable backlog of games that they need to play.

[Felidaeus]

That's pretty much the reason I played WoW for a while. I played all the games, and read all the books. So I wanted to see what they would do with the story in World of Warcraft.

And I'll tell you what they did...they completely FUCKED IT UP. It's bad enough that they did a horrible job with the gameplay, but they had to mess up even some of the good story elements from previous games/books. I hate new Blizzard. :bang:

Thus the reason I quit.

They have redeemed themselves with lich king. The entire northrend zone is EXTREMELY lore oriented. I quit for a while when burning crusade came out, but wrath makes up for all the slop they fed everyone. It feels like the entire bloody game has been setting up for this expansion. Which sucks, cause you have to level to 70 to get into it :(

[FivosRazor1]

WoW = McDonalds

Just cause its the Biggest does not mean its the best.

i remember writing it in the wow forums a long time ago and I think I wrote it in the warhammeralliance forum too(not sure)

[Astimodeus]

WoW is an hamsterwheel.
Everything after WoW is an hamsterwheel.
We hate hamsterwheels.
/thread

[Drakoola]

I don't understand how one can play WoW for longer than a few days. I've played a druid to level 23 and quit it because it bored me to hell, and that class was one of the most versatile ones. I've felt like a locomotive on a railroad with no way to leave the given path. I think it is a stupid grindfest for every level the same stuff with higher numbers.

But everyone is different.

[Whacko]

It's true WoW reaped the rewards of a solid advertising campaign.
It's also proven that millions of players were introduced to the MMO community through WoW for the first time.
But here is why the hate I believe you see about WoW.
Blizzard was so successful in the market that many existing games and games that were in planning started to clone the blizzard model.
Simply put that companies started thinking about pulling players from WoW instead of focusing on the current playerbase.
Case in point, look at what SWG did to it's game. That was a direct result of blizzard's success with the "Keep it simple" approach.
Blizzard does deserve credit for bringing new players into the market but what I really hate is that now the market makes almost anything like WoW.
The dumbed down market is what truly drives my hate.
Sure there might be games out there that are for other genres but the bottomline is no matter what the sandbox died long ago. Only Darkfall will release those away from the narrow thinking gameplay of WoW and it's clones.
So maybe I am some crazy old man now in terms of a gamer but I do remember a time when there was no WoW, and there was no term as carebear.
I am just jealous or even a tad mystified over the whole WoW concept.
But come on you have to admit that WoW develops a certain type of online player.
These players tend to have the fake reality that they are hardcore and that any game that breaks the WoW model is utter garbage.
These players might be Hardcore in WoW gameplay but in a game that is sandbox the true hardcore in a player is developed.

/rant off

[Darkfalz]

Ladies and gentlemen, or should I say manginas and fanbois, I have a few words for you:

WoW is not Everquest. It's not even an evolution of Everquest. There were massive, integral differences between Everquest and World of Warcraft.

1) The completely unbelievable immersion of Everquest.

Everquest, from the very start, simply SUCKED YOU RIGHT INTO ITS WORLD. It was like nothing anyone had ever seen before. Not UO, not anything before or since has ever compared with the pure immersion of Everquest.

2) Everquest had extremely hardcore pvp.

I would tend to seriously doubt that even 1% of Forumfallers have ever played on an Everquest pvp server. I played Everquest for 3 years, and I have played EVE Online for 4 years now. In between, I played Shadowbane, WoW, Anarchy Online, Star Wars Galaxies, City of Heroes, you name it...
not one of these games has ever come close to Everquest in the hardcoreness of its pvp.

Everquest pvp was open. It was not full loot, but it was ubiquitous and nerve-wracking. The most important ingredient to this was that there were massive, harsh penalties for death. For one death, you could lose hours of experience, even knocking your character back a level, back when levels actually meant something...

3) Everquest was extremely difficult.

The mobs in Everquest, as a rule, were about 5-10 times stronger than an average player of the same level. They would brutally pursue you to the ends of the zone, they would gang up on those with low hitpoints, usually instantly killing anyone that happened to drop below 25% health, and they would social aggro and train like nothing else I've ever seen since in a video game.

Basically, they were the toughest monsters that have ever appeared in an MMO. Does that mean that they were smart AI? No, but they were by far the scariest and hardest mobs ever to grace a video game. What it came down to was that even in the relative safest of high-end pve areas, every single person in the group would have to know their role to an absolute tee and work very, very well together as a team. You simply had to know what you were doing in Everquest, or everyone died. Not just you... everyone.

Anyone that thinks Everquest was a carebear game is only half right. The pvp servers were like a cross between Baghdad and the Bering Sea on a bad day. And higher-end PVE required more than a little amount of skill and knowledge of the game.

Everquest had its negatives, and they were legion when you can compare it with the perfect vision of hindsight to a game like Darkfall is purported to be. But this is what, 8 years later? And what have we had in the meantime that was any good? Nothing.

In my mind, Darkfall is the spiritual successor of EVERQUEST, and Everquest was the spiritual predecessor to Darkfall. Not Ultima Online, not Shadowbane, and World of Warcraft doesn't even enter into it. WoW is simply the amalgamated whorechild of every poor design choice ever seen in an MMORPG that didn't come out and straight-up ruin the game.

Don't tell me what the developers have stated; look at the spirit and feel of the games from experience and knowledge, and tell me Everquest and Darkfall aren't siblings or at least inbred cousins.

[Whacko]

Dark has it completely right.
Everquest did bring out the serious hardcore in all of us.

Corpse runs made you really not want to die.

[Conq]

My problem isn't so much with WoW as much as the people who play, I don't like it but there are a lot of games I don't like and I'm not going to go on a nerd rampage when I hear people talking about them. WoW is different, it opened up the MMO genre to a class of players that shouldn't ever have joined us and probably wouldn't ever have joined us. They are the majority and almost every new mmorpg in the crowded market has to cater to them for money.

It's not just the age either, I was a professional game master WoW for over a year, I know the people... sure a lot of them are young but most aren't they are just spoiled and stupid with no patience or interest in accomplishing anything that requires any level of difficulty. My co-workers were the best example, 90% of them were guild leaders who had traveled from all over the country just to work for Blizzard get to get an edge for this guilds... most of them had never even heard of UO, EQ or AC, they actually thought Blizzard founded the market.

I hate to sound like that old cranky guy sitting in his rocker waving his stick at youngsters but a lot of us simply feel betrayed by the market we helped build, a market that is now ignoring our generation.

Geeze, I gotta stop... I could go on for hours about WoW, I'm never going to get my soul back for the time I spent working there.

[HauptmannHP]

Moved to OT.

[LordTenacious]

I don't think you realize what you have just done hauptmann.

Better off just locking it.

[Quanta]

I don't think you realize what you have just done hauptmann.

Better off just locking it.
That was probably the point. ;P

[Grotesque]

WoW turned my friends into that guy from the South Park episode. I got out lucky.

[Darkfalz]

Dark has it completely right.
Everquest did bring out the serious hardcore in all of us.

Corpse runs made you really not want to die.

Oh god, I'd completely forgotten all about those until you just mentioned it again... shudder!!

Not to mention I had to quit playing Rallos Zek for a while when I started having dreams of getting hunted down and killed.

[HauptmannHP]

I don't think you realize what you have just done hauptmann.

Better off just locking it.

But it's so fun to see what happens to threads when they get moved to OT. :(

[Temet nosce]

But it's so fun to see what happens to threads when they get moved to OT. :(

Trust me, you didn't need to do this to prove you were a sadist. We'd have believed a simple statement.

[Leahn]

Whats with all the wow hate in the forums?

It seems to me that beating on WoW makes people feel better about themselves like if they were the badass toughest PvPer around. Truth is, WoW is a good game for the people it is meant for, but it is just not meant for most people around here. Yet, some people around here just bash it because everyone elses bash it, so try not to get too much annoyed with it.

As for myself, I dislike WoW because it is not a MMO. It is a massively single player online game. The only way you are forced to interact with other people (till you reach max level, that is) is through the auction houses (very well done in WoW, by the way, far better than personal shops idea, and way better than the games that had auction houses so far). Once you reach max level, the game forces you to interact with people if you wish to raid, but I've seen plenty of people that simply go back to levelling another char because they enjoy levelling and never really talked to other people except for some rare group quest with a good reward.

In WoW, in spite of all your actions, though, you have a ZERO effect in the world. I mean, how many top gladiators you know by name? Do you KNOW the name of the top gladiator of the server you played? Do you bother to know? Do the rest of the 1000+ people on the server bother to know? I will tell you, they don't. Being the top gladiator has ZERO effect in the game. Do every single quest in the game has ZERO effect in the game. Raid every dungeon, every instance, kill all bosses. ZERO effect. Nothing that you ever do has any effect in the game. You could have played the game since the closed beta, done all that could be done in the game, and if you left tomorrow forever, no one would weep, no one would miss you, no one would probably even notice.

That's why I dislike WoW. I went to a friend's house and he showed me some area from WotLK, some area where there is a massacre and a dragon tells you a story and you have to get a shield from a person and bring back to the city, something among those lines, and he was amazed that when he arrived there there were plenty of people, then the quest started, and there was a massacre, and now the game didn't reset and there is no one there anymore (this is nothing new, dynamic world changed by questing is around since Saga of Ryzom) and he was so happy that he could make a small change in the world, then I asked him; 'And what happens if you group to someone who hasn't done this quest yet and comes to this area?' He couldn't answer. In games like WoW, there can't be permanent changes in the world, lest other people be blocked or denied a quest / area / item. He then noticed that he, in fact, had no real impact of the world whatsoever.

Do you wanna know what a REAL quest system should be like? Check the quest system from the new DCUO game. I couldn't really find the article at Massively.com but it goes something on the lines of 'You are flying on the city and the game spawns dinamically some bank robbing, and it pop ups on your screen a quest to stop that bank robbery. If there is another hero in the area, you two you temporarily join each other in a group that will last as long as that quest does, and if there is a villain in the area, he will receive another quest to PREVENT you from stopping the robbery. Depending on the outcome of the situation (you defeat both the robbers and the villain, you defeat the robbers but loses to the villain, defeat the villain and the robbers get away, or loses completely) the game will change the objective of the quest dinamically to adjust to that. Suposing you defeat the villain and the robbers get away, your quest objective changes to 'chase the robbers and get the money back' '.

All that can be changed all the time to adjust to new circunstances like new heroes or villains arriving. All quests are on timer (because the robbers won't sit still waiting for you to have time to stop them). This is a far better approach to questing than we have today.

Back to topic, WoW is a good game, but it is just not meant for old and more hardcore gamers like most people here. It is meant for people that never played any MMO before as a good introduction to the genre. Shame that most of them will never move out of it.

[ExiliuM]

Whats with all the wow hate in the forums? All I see everywhere are posts about how people should go back to playing wow, how wow sucks. I went along with it for a while b/c i didnt want to get flamed but no more! Im taking a stand. What the hell is up with everyone disliking wow players? Ive only played wow once at a friends house (where I play most pay 2 play games, he subscribes to everything) because i am too cheap, it didnt seem all that bad in all honesty. the graphics were ok, the people seemed rather funny, and the fighting wasnt bad. I mean they must be doing something right with 4 million subscribers!(I didnt count asian gold farmers)

So can someone please answer whats with the wow hate?
Is it the grinding? yes wow is a grind fest, but I dont expect darkfall will be all that different. I mean you will have to 'grind' by fighting goblins to get your skill up so that you can have high enough skill levels to fight other players. Infact real life is a grind too. You study so you get better test scores, you work out to increase your strength, its all a grind so whats the problem?

You Aug '08< people with your ridiculous threads makes the hate against WoW stronger. Please continue.

[DrGreenThumb]

I played WoW with friends who I knew IRL for about a year or two. In the beginning, it was fun, a distraction, it was easy.

But then it happened.. my friends would start talking about it constantly at work.. WoW this, WoW that.. the addiction was setting in.

Then we were all made redundant. They spent roughly 3 months playing WoW 6 or 7 days a week, all day. They had money, so they didn't need a job. I, on the other hand, got a new job instead.

This made me fall-behind them with my gear, not having enough time to do arenas or pvp to get the "good" gear. We had our own guild, just for us, which was nice. We'd help each other out. But then.. it happened.

They wanted to do some raids, as we we're missing out. So, they got more people, to do dungeon raids. Guild politics ensued and my friends were getting pissed off with constantly being asked to help out lower lvl people in the guild. I, on the other hand, had slowly been losing interest until one day I just quit.

I hate WoW for one reason. You have to devote your life to it if you want to be the "best". The amount of grinding is purely ridiculous. And if you don't have the time to earn the "best" stuff, then, whats the point in playing??
I used to log on, go to darkshire (i was horde on pvp server) and just kill allies all night for fun while getting drunk with a bottle of JD. I never bothered grinding for rep or anything. I knew I'd never have the time. And even if I did, they'd bring out another expansion so my "best" stuff was junk, and had to start all over again.

And this is meant to be what every other MMO aims to be...??

God help us if Darkfall fails..


Some of the many reasons i really do despise that game. I too saw friends, do nothing but talk about it. I played it pre tbc, and left. My friends didn't. Hell even now, after i haven't played it for over 2years, they talk about... wow to me... and quite frankly i don't give a shit. Honestly gabbing on to people who either don't care, or don't even know the game, chatting shit about 'i got +2 this' ' i spent 23 hours grinding pvp'. While your thinking, JUST STFU FFS, who cares.

I am happy i left that game after seeing that. I even see mates who left it, and as soon as they can are going straight back in. And what did i do when i called over for these people? stare at the back of their heads until i got bored enough to leave. One of my friends, ive seen a handful of times in a couple of years, then i find out he's also playing wow, coincidence? It actually makes me wish i never even played that fucking game, because, yes, i did play it, but damn, never to that extent - and they always fall back on 'well you played it'. And yes i did, but fuck me, not to the point i was talking about damn agility or wahtever when your out with people in...real life!. I mean who the fuck talks about wow in a pub?

So they are some of my pet hates. Saying 11 million players are active on that game is naive. How many gold selling shit takes up that? 30%? 40%? meh who cares, really.

[Bissen]

Whats not with the WoW hate?

Fixed

[Leahn]

Its 11 million that play it man. 2.8 million bought the new expansion within 24 hours. IDK where you got 4 million....

No, it is not. It is 11 million subscribers. They count every single person who has ever played the game, even if the person never made it past the trial period.

[Archangelus]

WoW wouldn't be that bad if its developers (who are not the original ones who created the game) weren't totally retarded. What they do is to "balance" the entire game on 5v5 arena. The results of this brainless approach to the game are:

1) PvP is totally screwed. Some classes are completely OP and some are totally broken. Look at what they did with Paladins, which are not even playable, and Druids/Rogues, which have the 1 button "I win" option.

2) Because of the above reason, WoW has become the most popular attraction for retarded kids who start whining unless they can kill you in 5 seconds. There are million of kids rerolling characters according to which class is the most OP at the moment. This generates more imbalance, as they inundate the forums with their rants as soon as they get owned by a smart player. Again, look at what happened to Paladins with WotLK. After 3 years of playing a broken class, finally Paladins were fixed. Unfortunately, Blizzard decided to release the new contents with a patch before the expansion, and this made all the kids reroll a paladin because at lvl 70 they were OP. Now, Paladins would have been perfectly fine at lvl 80, but all the kids who didn't roll a Paladin found themselves being owned at lvl 70 by a class that up to that point had been cannon fodder and free Honor Points. So, on the one hand they had an army of wannabeagreatpala kids running all over the place, on the other a huge rant started on the forums as those kids who were used to kill Paladins in 3 seconds weren't happy anymore. As a consequence, Blizzard nerfed Paladins to the ground and those who had patiently played a Pala for three years, waiting for devs to fix the class, were shafted once again. Do you think that's how professional, intelligent, and responsible developers behave? I think they are a bunch of tards who ruined a, otherwise, good game.

3) Because of reason #1, PvE is also screwed. If you have played a fury warrior, a ret pala, an elemental shammy, etc... you know what I am talking about. Simply, there are classes which are not even allowed into groups and raids unless people can't find anybody else who want to play with them...

WOW = RETARDED.

[Leahn]

The arena takes actually skill, those people who posted in the thread that it takes 0 skill to PvP in WoW are totally clueless.

Go takes actual skill. Chess takes actual skill. Saying arena takes actual skill is saying throwing coins for Heads or Tails takes actual skill. True that saying that it takes 0 skill is an hiperbole but it is not that far from the truth. It feels like it takes skill because everything else is already plained. Everyone's got roughly the same level. Roughly the same gear. Roughly the same experience on using their class skills and its effects. Even if someone is slightly worse, the fact that you usually fight as a team balances it out. What's left is dice rolls and reflexes. You want proof why it DOESNT take actual skill? Explain why did they break the arena so the level 69 char no longer face the level 70 ones? I don't know what was made of arena now that WotLK is out, but this change was out before the expansion was released anyway. Tell me. If it is a matter of skill, why would a level 69 lose so much to a level 70 that they had to break the arena tiers? You want skill? Take the trial of Vanguard Online and face 20 drones against you. Face them until you can beat them without taking a single shot. I managed to go as far as face 10 unharmed, but couldn't beat 20 unharmed. Do it. Do it using the starting ship and then go play arena in WoW and tell me it takes skill.

[Leahn]

If you're a powergaming munchkin with no imagination, sure. However, if you're the sort who enjoys a good narrative with interesting characters, I doubt you'll see things that way. ;)

Don't start a discussion over D&D and World of Darkness, please.

[Violin]

Skill is how long you spend your time on the computer after all.

[Forgin]

WoW wouldn't be that bad if its developers (who are not the original ones who created the game) weren't totally retarded. What they do is to "balance" the entire game on 5v5 arena. The results of this brainless approach to the game are:

1) PvP is totally screwed. Some classes are completely OP and some are totally broken. Look at what they did with Paladins, which are not even playable, and Druids/Rogues, which have the 1 button "I win" option.

2) Because of the above reason, WoW has become the most popular attraction for retarded kids who start whining unless they can kill you in 5 seconds. There are million of kids rerolling characters according to which class is the most OP at the moment. This generates more imbalance, as they inundate the forums with their rants as soon as they get owned by a smart player. Again, look at what happened to Paladins with WotLK. After 3 years of playing a broken class, finally Paladins were fixed. Unfortunately, Blizzard decided to release the new contents with a patch before the expansion, and this made all the kids reroll a paladin because at lvl 70 they were OP. Now, Paladins would have been perfectly fine at lvl 80, but all the kids who didn't roll a Paladin found themselves being owned at lvl 70 by a class that up to that point had been cannon fodder and free Honor Points. So, on the one hand they had an army of wannabeagreatpala kids running all over the place, on the other a huge rant started on the forums as those kids who were used to kill Paladins in 3 seconds weren't happy anymore. As a consequence, Blizzard nerfed Paladins to the ground and those who had patiently played a Pala for three years, waiting for devs to fix the class, were shafted once again. Do you think that's how professional, intelligent, and responsible developers behave? I think they are a bunch of tards who ruined a, otherwise, good game.

3) Because of reason #1, PvE is also screwed. If you have played a fury warrior, a ret pala, an elemental shammy, etc... you know what I am talking about. Simply, there are classes which are not even allowed into groups and raids unless people can't find anybody else who want to play with them...

WOW = RETARDED.


Just wanted to let you know: Palladins are overpowered

And you really sound like the guy who is pissed off because Blizzard nerved his class and decides to whine about to people who don't give a crap.

[Leahn]

You would be surprised how many people continue playing a crappy game just because it's what they are use to. It's just like an old man that has done the same thing every day for 40 years. It becomes Habit.

Tibia comes to mind. Pretty popular here in Brazil.

[Lethn]

Okay fuck off, the reason I hate WoW is because everythings broken and I can't even look at any positive features on that game taking it from a completely neutral viewpoint.

The two things WoW had going for it was the PvE and the community, now the communities nothing more than a bunch of l33t faggots that only think about gear and grinding like just about any F2P game and the game itself has dissolved into shittiness because they're desperately trying to cater to anyone that whines the loudest and gives them money.

It's got nothing to do with it being 'popular' thats bullshit and it's just another excuse by fanbois against people who don't like this game, as for WoW's fucking success everyones been touting the 10 million subscriber model that's carried WoW this far but people fail to take notice that their expansion sales have actually been DROPPING which should say something about the quality of their game and how many people actually want to play it, plus I think the 10 million subscriber base is fake because they've been saying it for the past few years now and I'm willing to bet that a couple of million will have dropped off the radar by now.

Again, we don't hate WoW because it's popular, that's just a shitty excuse made up by morons who can't take that there's something popular out there that some people just won't play, that's like saying people don't play Spore because they've all pirated it, they've pirated it because it's a fucking piece of shit!

Oh and also don't get me started on the fact that everything and I mean EVERYTHING is pre-determined in this game just like EVE the only thing that makes a difference in this game is how long you've grinded for that set of shiny gear and levelled up, it's got nothing to do with ANY choices you make in the actual combat it's just how long you've grinded.

Don't even fucking think about painting all WoW haters with the same brush because you WILL get your asses flamed off this board and not even the mods will be able to save you.

I'd also like to add that the REASON that WoW was successful was not because of it being 'good' but it was in fact because of the huge marketing campaign that Blizzard launched allowing people who would have never normally even look at a game to know about it. It's got nothing fucking to do with the game itself whatsoever and I think some people here need to get that drilled into their heads.

[Ahaezrai]

Okay fuck off, the reason I hate WoW is because everythings broken and I can't even look at any positive features on that game taking it from a completely neutral viewpoint.

The two things WoW had going for it was the PvE and the community, now the communities nothing more than a bunch of l33t faggots that only think about gear and grinding like just about any F2P game and the game itself has dissolved into shittiness because they're desperately trying to cater to anyone that whines the loudest and gives them money.

It's got nothing to do with it being 'popular' thats bullshit and it's just another excuse by fanbois against people who don't like this game, as for WoW's fucking success everyones been touting the 10 million subscriber model that's carried WoW this far but people fail to take notice that their expansion sales have actually been DROPPING which should say something about the quality of their game and how many people actually want to play it, plus I think the 10 million subscriber base is fake because they've been saying it for the past few years now and I'm willing to bet that a couple of million will have dropped off the radar by now.

Again, we don't hate WoW because it's popular, that's just a shitty excuse made up by morons who can't take that there's something popular out there that some people just won't play, that's like saying people don't play Spore because they've all pirated it, they've pirated it because it's a fucking piece of shit!

Oh and also don't get me started on the fact that everything and I mean EVERYTHING is pre-determined in this game just like EVE the only thing that makes a difference in this game is how long you've grinded for that set of shiny gear and levelled up, it's got nothing to do with ANY choices you make in the actual combat it's just how long you've grinded.

Don't even fucking think about painting all WoW haters with the same brush because you WILL get your asses flamed off this board and not even the mods will be able to save you.

I'd also like to add that the REASON that WoW was successful was not because of it being 'good' but it was in fact because of the huge marketing campaign that Blizzard launched allowing people who would have never normally even look at a game to know about it. It's got nothing fucking to do with the game itself whatsoever and I think some people here need to get that drilled into their heads..

[Sinius]

What is WoW?

[Ahaezrai]

Okay fuck off, the reason I hate WoW is because everythings broken and I can't even look at any positive features on that game taking it from a completely neutral viewpoint.

The two things WoW had going for it was the PvE and the community, now the communities nothing more than a bunch of l33t faggots that only think about gear and grinding like just about any F2P game and the game itself has dissolved into shittiness because they're desperately trying to cater to anyone that whines the loudest and gives them money.

It's got nothing to do with it being 'popular' thats bullshit and it's just another excuse by fanbois against people who don't like this game, as for WoW's fucking success everyones been touting the 10 million subscriber model that's carried WoW this far but people fail to take notice that their expansion sales have actually been DROPPING which should say something about the quality of their game and how many people actually want to play it, plus I think the 10 million subscriber base is fake because they've been saying it for the past few years now and I'm willing to bet that a couple of million will have dropped off the radar by now.

Again, we don't hate WoW because it's popular, that's just a shitty excuse made up by morons who can't take that there's something popular out there that some people just won't play, that's like saying people don't play Spore because they've all pirated it, they've pirated it because it's a fucking piece of shit!

Oh and also don't get me started on the fact that everything and I mean EVERYTHING is pre-determined in this game just like EVE the only thing that makes a difference in this game is how long you've grinded for that set of shiny gear and levelled up, it's got nothing to do with ANY choices you make in the actual combat it's just how long you've grinded.

Don't even fucking think about painting all WoW haters with the same brush because you WILL get your asses flamed off this board and not even the mods will be able to save you.

I'd also like to add that the REASON that WoW was successful was not because of it being 'good' but it was in fact because of the huge marketing campaign that Blizzard launched allowing people who would have never normally even look at a game to know about it. It's got nothing fucking to do with the game itself whatsoever and I think some people here need to get that drilled into their heads.

Totally true, and if somebody don´t understand it yet, remember her something: you can do all the game and know all the littel existent story
reading webs as wow-head. I put wow-head, I kill mobs, i see wow-head i kill mobs, i see wow-head, i kill mobs... Why they don´t legallize bots?

[Archangelus]

Just wanted to let you know: Palladins are overpowered

And you really sound like the guy who is pissed off because Blizzard nerved his class and decides to whine about to people who don't give a crap.


You are that racist kid who insulted Americans on Thanksgiving Day. Please, go back to WoW where you belong. We won't miss you.

[Angry-Khan]

Okay fuck off, the reason I hate WoW is because everythings broken and I can't even look at any positive features on that game taking it from a completely neutral viewpoint.

The two things WoW had going for it was the PvE and the community, now the communities nothing more than a bunch of l33t faggots that only think about gear and grinding like just about any F2P game and the game itself has dissolved into shittiness because they're desperately trying to cater to anyone that whines the loudest and gives them money.
Because youve been to every server and know what ever server is right like? Please.... thats a fucking stupid excuse not to like a game. Wow has niches in everything( a game with 10 mil ppl is bound to), theres ppl that like to pvp, or troll people all day, or raid.


It's got nothing to do with it being 'popular' thats bullshit and it's just another excuse by fanbois against people who don't like this game, as for WoW's fucking success everyones been touting the 10 million subscriber model that's carried WoW this far but people fail to take notice that their expansion sales have actually been DROPPING which should say something about the quality of their game and how many people actually want to play it, plus I think the 10 million subscriber base is fake because they've been saying it for the past few years now and I'm willing to bet that a couple of million will have dropped off the radar by now.
Claiming that a world known company (aka vivendi) lies it its customers is a pretty big claim. Unless u have something to back that up then once again ur making a stupid fucking assumption.


Oh and also don't get me started on the fact that everything and I mean EVERYTHING is pre-determined in this game just like EVE the only thing that makes a difference in this game is how long you've grinded for that set of shiny gear and levelled up, it's got nothing to do with ANY choices you make in the actual combat it's just how long you've grinded.
Thats a really stupid assumption, i could bring out a few pvp videos that show wow takes some skill. If you want to simplify wow into x counters y and has to be used at time z then life can be simplified like that as well. Warcraft and Starcraft could be simplified as well since there are counters to each unit etc etc. Trying to simplify wow because you havent played and endgame char is stupid.

Don't even fucking think about painting all WoW haters with the same brush because you WILL get your asses flamed off this board and not even the mods will be able to save you.
Might wanna go to bed before your mom hears u nerd ragin, u might get grounded for staying up too late.

I'd also like to add that the REASON that WoW was successful was not because of it being 'good' but it was in fact because of the huge marketing campaign that Blizzard launched allowing people who would have never normally even look at a game to know about it. It's got nothing fucking to do with the game itself whatsoever and I think some people here need to get that drilled into their heads.

Wow may have a huge marketing campaign, but so did aoc and war and they both flopped. This means that while wow may not be amazing its not bad and thus is able to retain subscribers.

Wow provides a quality experience to ppl who enjoy that type of game. Im not gonna sit here and argue with ppl who probably have a .5kd ratio in any fps about skill or what they think skill is. People that dont like wow can honestly QQ more, an opinion is an opinion, no matter how fucking stupid some of the opinions on this forum are.

[Feyrband]

WoW is a piece of shit game, having two 70s and 2 60s, i think i've earned the right to be a "hater" of wow.


and i just noticed this trash came from GD.

[nathanpinard]

Oh and also don't get me started on the fact that everything and I mean EVERYTHING is pre-determined in this game just like EVE the only thing that makes a difference in this game is how long you've grinded for that set of shiny gear and levelled up, it's got nothing to do with ANY choices you make in the actual combat it's just how long you've grinded.

Could you clarify what you mean by EVE being predetermined and the last part you stated?

[Arthreas]

Wow this guy starts a thread about whats with all the wow hate? and look at all these people just going off in flaming. No offence. but WoW has really affected u guys

[Vessol]

Wow this guy starts a thread about whats with all the wow hate? and look at all these people just going off in flaming. No offence. but WoW has really affected u guys

My name is Darkfall, WoW killed my father, prepare to die.

[Kraven]

Clueless Troll doesn't realize hes a troll.

[Barbarossa]

Whats with all the wow hate in the forums? All I see everywhere are posts about how people should go back to playing wow, how wow sucks. I went along with it for a while b/c i didnt want to get flamed but no more! Im taking a stand. What the hell is up with everyone disliking wow players? Ive only played wow once at a friends house (where I play most pay 2 play games, he subscribes to everything) because i am too cheap, it didnt seem all that bad in all honesty. the graphics were ok, the people seemed rather funny, and the fighting wasnt bad. I mean they must be doing something right with 4 million subscribers!(I didnt count asian gold farmers)

So can someone please answer whats with the wow hate?
Is it the grinding? yes wow is a grind fest, but I dont expect darkfall will be all that different. I mean you will have to 'grind' by fighting goblins to get your skill up so that you can have high enough skill levels to fight other players. Infact real life is a grind too. You study so you get better test scores, you work out to increase your strength, its all a grind so whats the problem?

here comes the WoWsters, just like that one thread said.

WoW sucks and is for teh carebears, now please stick you head up your ass and fight for air...

[Vandhl]

to OP

Everything has haters, in proportion this game has "proportionally" the same amount of hate as any other game

[Bloody blade]

WoW hate is caused by one of two things:

1. Experience of playing WoW, and growing to hate it. Usually accompanied by in-depth technical analysis of gameplay features.
2. Wanting to look cool by jumping on the hate bandwagon, typical of losers and teenagers (who are losers anyway).
3. ????
4. PROFIT
5. Making a list on Forumfall.
6. BAIL-OUT

I hate WOW for reason 1

[Saturday Saint]

People hate WoW for a variety of reasons. It's too carebearish, there's too much grind, the community is filled with idiots, et cetera.

[Nafelos]

To answer the original question: Matriel is breeding discontent towards WoW in order to unify Forumfall. After a massive mobilization campaign, we will annex Shadowbane and invade Poland.

[Paganini]

To answer the original question: Matriel is breeding discontent towards WoW in order to unify Forumfall. After a massive mobilization campaign, we will annex Shadowbane and invade Poland.

In my humble opinion our order of operations should be invading Poland to improve morale and then annex Shadowbane

[Honest Bill]

In my humble opinion our order of operations should be invading Poland to improve morale and then annex Shadowbane


For god's sake, why do we always have to do things your way?

[Nafelos]

You forget! The new order makes these decisions for us.

[ejnomad07]

This troll did a good job. Look at all these replies.:lmao: Man has talent. You think with all the stupid topics he makes everyone would learn by now. :bang:

[Denrick]

The elite few need a global antagonist. Wow's cartoony graphics and high popularity make it a prime target. WoW caters to the demands of the majority, of course the "hardcore" are going to hate it. Everyone has their own definition of what a terrible game is; WoW, to me, isn't terrible, but it is very repetitive and the PvP is a joke. I am excited to see what Darkfall can deliver.

[Tomaj]

wow is a cearbear grind fest thats wheats wrong with it. you grind for levels to get better gear to grind for more levels also combat rewuires NO skill its all in the timeing and gear. DF on the other hand will be all about player skill not skill buttons. if you cant raise your shield to block that your gonna get hit its not by chance. not to mention its not a grind there are no levels to gain.

[corza334]

Hmm. After reading through these posts, It's more then apparent that the games are too different to compare...

Maybe the MMO industry is expanding to cater for much different audiences, even though it's in the same element?

That would explain all the hostility I guess...

[antihero-zero]

If you define success by the narrow definition of popularity, yes, WoW is perfect. However, if you're not an imbecile, have a minimal imagination, and have a modest amount of experience playing better games, you'll see WoW for the giant piece of shit it is. I will say it was worth a run through with one character a few years ago when those graphics were marginally acceptable, but it has no longevity, and is only an MMO in the loosest definition of the acronym.

Why does WoW suck?
Relies heavily on instancing.
Has cheap bullshit scenario "PvP".
The community is almost entirely made up of children.
It has a truly awful support staff
It has shitty and childish graphics
Has fairly lineral progression
XP and reputation grinding
Has a useless crafting system
Has universal flight paths and a universal auction house
Most importantly: it requires basically no real talent (player skill) to excel at.
No reasonable death penalty.
Has a shitty 2-sided faction system.
It's success has deeply suppressed innovation and imagination for future MMOs in the industry.

Any fucking idiot drooling over his keyboard can be just as good at WoW as a famous cell biologist professor I had who also played the game. Not only is that piece of shit unrewarding to succeed in because everyone succeeds if they just play long enough, and everyone gets to feel like a winner!

This troll did a good job. Look at all these replies.:lmao:

Uh, newsflash, pretty much everyone in OT is a troll. We're all trolls trolling trolls.

[Stax]

But it's so fun to see what happens to threads when they get moved to OT. :(



LMAO, its like tossing a piece of bloody meat into a pool with hungry parana's. Just keep feeding all of us down here in the OT world, we'll make sure nothing is left over from this crud.

[Duncandun]

:rolleyes: If you want to be like that about it, it would be more accurate to blame Everquest. WoW is essentially a highly polished Everquest clone, and this is most likely because EQ was, far and away, the most successful of the first generation MMOs.

WoW took the same formula, nipped here, tucked there, and spit it back out and was wildly successful with it.

However, it's stupid to blame either EQ or WoW for the popularity of a model. If you want to blame someone, blame the millions of people who are fine playing a formulaic remake of another game. The companies are merely supplying to meet demand.
i dont think people realize how much WoW borrowed from AC2, not eq. Although ac2 had a more eqish style, it was still very unique, and WoW (and lots and lots of games since) have borrowed heavily from ac2 and it's unique ideas. possibly without even realizing ac2 was the source.

[Kraven]

WoW = McDonalds

Just cause its the Biggest does not mean its the best.

mcdonalds sounds delicious right now. WoW is absolute shit though. It is made for people who can't handle actual consequence.

[Duncandun]

Exactly but adding on to that WoW = shit.
wow is a time consuming carebear game with no real PvP (full loot, no safe zones, fps combat)

wow, so i guess no mmorpg has had real pvp before! its all been lies and fakes:(

[tallefred]

Good for you standing up for yourself. You're still a Wowfag.

[-Jotun]

mcdonalds sounds delicious right now. WoW is absolute shit though. It is made for people who can't handle actual consequence.

how does eating shit ever sound delicious? amazing.

[Glak]

from the 11 years i played MMOs i spent 2,5 years on WoW and it was fun while it lasted but i wouldnt go back even if it was the last game on the internet.

In the end WoW is just too easy and repetitive and the only thing that kept me going was my awesome guild and some friends playing it.

I cant wait to get back to some real gaming in DF!

Okay fuck off, the reason I hate WoW is because everythings broken and I can't even look at any positive features on that game taking it from a completely neutral viewpoint.

The two things WoW had going for it was the PvE and the community, now the communities nothing more than a bunch of l33t faggots that only think about gear and grinding like just about any F2P game and the game itself has dissolved into shittiness because they're desperately trying to cater to anyone that whines the loudest and gives them money.

It's got nothing to do with it being 'popular' thats bullshit and it's just another excuse by fanbois against people who don't like this game, as for WoW's fucking success everyones been touting the 10 million subscriber model that's carried WoW this far but people fail to take notice that their expansion sales have actually been DROPPING which should say something about the quality of their game and how many people actually want to play it, plus I think the 10 million subscriber base is fake because they've been saying it for the past few years now and I'm willing to bet that a couple of million will have dropped off the radar by now.

Again, we don't hate WoW because it's popular, that's just a shitty excuse made up by morons who can't take that there's something popular out there that some people just won't play, that's like saying people don't play Spore because they've all pirated it, they've pirated it because it's a fucking piece of shit!

Oh and also don't get me started on the fact that everything and I mean EVERYTHING is pre-determined in this game just like EVE the only thing that makes a difference in this game is how long you've grinded for that set of shiny gear and levelled up, it's got nothing to do with ANY choices you make in the actual combat it's just how long you've grinded.

Don't even fucking think about painting all WoW haters with the same brush because you WILL get your asses flamed off this board and not even the mods will be able to save you.

I'd also like to add that the REASON that WoW was successful was not because of it being 'good' but it was in fact because of the huge marketing campaign that Blizzard launched allowing people who would have never normally even look at a game to know about it. It's got nothing fucking to do with the game itself whatsoever and I think some people here need to get that drilled into their heads.

Best summary yet :)

[Ludo]

Mainly because the affect it had on the mmo market. It basically drove the industry to a copy + paste technique where WoW was to be copied and it was to be pasted onto another game with a different setting.

Because of wow most of us haven't had a single decent mmo to play since well shadowbane / ac. Personally I hate wow like I hate apple, people who play it are so fanatic about it they ignore everything bad about it and live in blissful ignorance.