My view on drama

[ZtyX]

Drama isn't crap. - Drama is what makes life interesting.

And while hate may be a luxury it is also a neccesity. Hate, hope and love drives and we want prosperity.
Therefore, we must accept hate and drama in order to become successful. Without vengeful competition and spirited life there will be no real society, only a group of drones and carebears without passionate goals and without real pleasure. Not a group of stimulated people.
The goal lies in finding the balance between digging yourself so deep into the mess of drama and hateful activity (some alfar) that you become miserable and between living a flavourless online life with no conflicts and no love (for money, for people, for yourself).

The distance to drama taken by many individuals in our guild goes against the nature of man. On the same scale it goes against the beauty of online gaming. Therefore, I can only sit and watch how the complaints of online gaming grow in number when key members of the online community resist the social factor in their favourite genre. Yet at the same time they demand it.
It has long been a debated topic that new online games do not offer the same interactive features their predecessors did. The bigger problem is that the selfsame people resist from indulging themselves in immersive online activity and consciously make the foolish decision of rejecting the very most interactive feature of any social activity - the love, hate and drama between humans.

Therefore, I clearly do suggest anyone interested in having meaningful online experiences to take a hard look at themselves and their relationship to online human interaction. Here are some key points.

* Do you text chat and voice speak?
* Do you express how you feel - good or bad?
* Do you brag and gloat?
* Do you do nice things for others?
* Do you have any good friends?
* Do you challenge others when your views conflict?
* Do you hate the motherfucker who is being a retard?
* Do you LOVE anybody? Do you love yourself? Do you love your skills?
* Do you worship developers and respect the glory of their masterpiece, while accepting their shortcomings?

...

[Dullard]

Forumfall: We Know Drama.

[ZtyX]

:) I gladly agree that some of you do. And I hope you carry over that passion into the game instead of passing onto the next warzone forums.

Also. I hope moderators will realize that passionate forums like these are a blessing, not a nuisance. Therefore, do not moderate them as strictly as you have done in the last 6 months with the influx of newly added moderators.

[Tyler]

:) I gladly agree that some of you do. And I hope you carry over that passion into the game instead of passing onto the next warzone forums.

Also. I hope moderators will realize that passionate forums like these are a blessing, not a nuisance. Therefore, do not moderate them as strictly as you have done in the last 6 months with the influx of newly added moderators.

god i can't wait to bend you wessex fags over a stump.

[ZtyX]

god i can't wait to bend you wessex fags over a stump.

That's a classic and very awesome attempt to derail the topic and create a war on words (WoW - why WoW is so popular/because it's social and full of drama).
Yet, it's the exact thing I am talking about. .. I would now love to kill Tyler and feel really good about it too if I could gank his face twenty times before he goes off crying or logs out.

However, this really isn't a warzone topic for you to exercise the things I've just advocated. This is a topic for inspiration and while it's O.K to show your inspiration in action I will not participate. :)
I'm only interested in promoting my point of view right now. There is going to be enough time for me to make both enemies and good friends. :)

[Dragor]

god i can't wait to bend you wessex fags over a stump.

should of seen that coming :lmao:

[Tyler]

i'm just here in support of your argument:ninja:

cheerio.

[rwp80]

Interesting discussion, Ztyx.

You're bang on correct about MMORPGs in general.
They are structured in a way that funnels people into pre-defined roles.
Where you limit freedom, you limit people's nature.

This is one of the selling points for me with Darkfall.
The Builders will build, the PKers will PK, the Adventurers will adventure, etc.

People will be what they are in Darkfall. The pressures to survive and progress will force people to do what they think is best for themselves.
The freedom offered will let people be the greatest comrades or the biggest retards.

I imagine a lot of people will complain about about the retards but that's just the way it is: Freedom is a two-sided coin. (Ever seen a one-sided coin? :ninja:)

TLDR: Freedom means people will show their true colours, the good and the bad. That's a very good thing.

[Mr.LichTwitch]

i'm just here in support of your argument:ninja:

cheerio.

Honey Nut?

[Galadrist]

should of seen that coming :lmao:

I actually should of seen that coming.

/fake tears well up

Man..it's "should HAVE seen that coming".
Might as well have just written "Shit obscene thats coming." seriously.

*wink* How's that for drama? :D

[ZtyX]

Interesting discussion, Ztyx.

You're bang on correct about MMORPGs in general.
They are structured in a way that funnels people into pre-defined roles.
Where you limit freedom, you limit people's nature.

This is one of the selling points for me with Darkfall.
The Builders will build, the PKers will PK, the Adventurers will adventure, etc.

People will be what they are in Darkfall. The pressures to survive and progress will force people to do what they think is best for themselves.
The freedom offered will let people be the greatest comrades or the biggest retards.

I imagine a lot of people will complain about about the retards but that's just the way it is: Freedom is a two-sided coin. (Ever seen a one-sided coin? :ninja:)

TLDR: Freedom means people will show their true colours, the good and the bad. That's a very good thing.

I very much agree. Thank you for posting that.

/fake tears well up

Man..it's "should HAVE seen that coming".
Might as well have just written "Should obscene that coming." seriously.

*wink* How's that for drama? :D

Rofl.. That's actually pretty funny.

[Camthylion]

I personaly tend to avoid dramatic people online or in real life. Just because you play an MMO that consists heavily on social functions. That really doesn't mean you have to be directly involed with it's community or the baggage some whiners/haters bring to the forums such as drama, I ignore those people type and go about my business. :)

[DeQui]

Motherfucking tree humping elves

[Dragor]

/fake tears well up

Man..it's "should HAVE seen that coming".
Might as well have just written "Shit obscene thats coming." seriously.

*wink* How's that for drama? :D

lol.. :lmao:

yeah well, iv learned it from the 2nd quote u put :lmao:

well sorry to go off topic OP.

and yeah, i think drama always spice up stuff whenever we go, even though its damn annoying sometimes but drama makes my day xD... you either laugh your ass off or just end up going like *man what a fucking crazy day* and log out

[Nuzor]

Motherfucking tree humping elves

Qft

[ZtyX]

I personaly tend to avoid dramatic people online or in real life. Just because you play an MMO that consists heavily on social functions. That really doesn't mean you have to be directly involed with it's community or the baggage some whiners/haters bring to the forums such as drama, I ignore those people type and go about my business. :)


What exactly is your business, if I may ask?

Achieving things is worthless if you can't show it to someone and get recognition for it. There is only the personal pleasure and that wears off fast after the first few goals accomplished. There is nothing like the recognition of another person.
Involvement in community is what carries the most sustainable play experience for anyone. Humans are social creatures and noone can live on their own and be happy for a very long time. .. You might be glad that you finally got away from all those jerks that pull your leg every day, but if you were to live alone for a long time you would quickly discover how very sad that is.

You also have to keep in mind that drama might not always be melodramatic. It can be subtle complaining. In which case you might realize you do participate in it quite often in real life. I suggest you communicate more in an online game. That really improves your play experience when you can sit down with people and chat it out. Not just "go about your business". The business quickly gets old. It is the social aspect that keeps mmos alive.
Let's not forget that. Because the grind and achievements can be found elsewhere.

Think of exactly WHY the grind in an mmo is better than in Oblivion?
And then think of how you can accept that and improve your play experience even further by following the same basic conclusion.


lol.. :lmao:

yeah well, iv learned it from the 2nd quote u put :lmao:

well sorry to go off topic OP.

and yeah, i think drama always spice up stuff whenever we go, even though its damn annoying sometimes but drama makes my day xD... you either laugh your ass off or just end up going like *man what a fucking crazy day* and log out

Don't worry about it.

Exactly. And I love it.. :)

[Suitepee]

I'm just here to explore and have fun.

Oh and kill Father Merrin at some point for being a pretentious douche that can't pronounce our superior race properly,but that's about it for 'drama' in my PvP expeditions. :D

[Crumplecorn]

Achieving things is worthless if you can't show it to someone and get recognition for it.Your need for validation is a little scary.

Think of exactly WHY the grind in an mmo is better than in Oblivion? Because in an MMOG you opponents are smarter, and the game isn't built around you personally.

[rwp80]

You might be glad that you finally got away from all those jerks that pull your leg every day, but if you were to live alone for a long time you would quickly discover how very sad that is.

That's not true for everyone. I value and treasure my solitude.
I still see my friends and family here and there, but I am so glad I live alone so I don't have to put up with other people's bullshit 24/7.
"I'll do the dishes on whatever day of the month I choose!" :lmao:

In reference to Darkfall, being a solo player will give me that same freedom, but there is a twist:
In Darkfall, danger lurks everywhere, so I'll still be 'interacting' with people but in an indirect sense. Even going as a solo crafter-business owner, I'd be 'solo' but interacting with others. This appeals to me right now, but in the future that could always change.

Think of exactly WHY the grind in an mmo is better than in Oblivion?
And then think of how you can accept that and improve your play experience even further by following the same basic conclusion.

Good point.
Single-player games feel like some kind of empty, hollow training compared to online games.

[Dandune]

Achieving things is worthless if you can't show it to someone and get recognition for it. There is only the personal pleasure and that wears off fast after the first few goals accomplished. There is nothing like the recognition of another person.

In real world maybe... in virtual world aka MMO world it is practicaly worthless.

[Uvita]

Motherfucking tree humping elves

Judging from your avatar, you're an elf too.

[Camthylion]

I don't want recognition from people in a game! nor do I really feel the need to want it in life, if I did I would have taken politics in college & took up a office or became a known socialite. Sure I have my family & friends in life that I do stuff with from time to time, but as for me I work come home & hang out with my wife lol don't need any other business, & my business is my own I try not to stick my nose into stuff that doesn't concern me.

That's why the world is in the shape it is in today. To many "drama/know it all types", to many people sticking there nasty little noses into places/things it doesn't belong in, trying to stiring up trouble. Recognition is a shallow word that really imo serves noone IRL. ;) Recongnition can be lost faster then it was obtained and then you're back at the bottom of the barrel.

[Dandune]

Recognition is a shallow word that really imo serves noone IRL. ;)

Actually when it comes to real life, recognition (achievements) is very important. A lot of times people cannot really know you but through your actions/achievements they can at least get some initial impression who they are dealing with.
Simple example is a job application/interview... your potential future boss might call up few people to get some information about you. Having a certain good rep is never a bad thing.

Another good example is science/scientists... getting recognised for their work earns them awards/rewards and bigger paycheck afteral.

[AnsgarIsen]

First of all, this is a very interesting topic you bring up, cudos for that!
Nice to see some meaninglful discussion in all the crap ;)


Achieving things is worthless if you can't show it to someone and get recognition for it. There is only the personal pleasure and that wears off fast after the first few goals accomplished. There is nothing like the recognition of another person.


This statement I must say is plainly wrong. What you describe here, is, in pschological dimensions, intrinsic vs. extrinsic motivation. It's a misconception to think motivation is driven by external factors only (like recognition), especially when it comes to the long run.
In fact it's very much the opposite. While extrinsic motivation is easier to achieve and very powerful in the short run, it's especially the intriniscal motivation that is harder to achieve, yet far more sustainable An individual that is able to motivate himslef without further external influence is what you try to achieve when it comes to special, hard tasks, as this is what is gicing a powerful longterm motivation.
If it were different, you wouldn't find anybody serving in special operations, or the agencies, as these people plain and simple more or less never get any recognition of others. They need extremely high motivation while in many cases they can't even talk to anybody about what they're doing. If they do well, they'll just be fine, if the sh** hits the fan, nobody will even take responsibility.

This doesn't mean your ideas about reconsidering the social aspects of MMOs aren't valid. In fact that is a very valid point and I feel like some of that really got lost over time in the community for whatever reasons. It's just a part of social life that loners are and have to be a part of the game, ofr it's their way and it's where the shine.
It's just your theary about the longterm worth of recognition by others I object. I actually think the perception of this, among with the results of overly relying on especially that (see gear grind in WoW as an example) partially is responsible for some of the loss of meaningful social interaction in games and in the community. Reducing social life to "see what I have!" and the pressure to have ever even better stuff is what's dumbing down our world bigtime, and that's not only in games. We have a significant part of at least one generation grown up under that principle already, and they tend to be very hard to motivate by any other means any more. Intrinsic motivation requires insight in social needs and the benefit for the society, the ability to be proud of oneself for knowing the worth of deeds without the recognition of others, and that's what's already missing with quite a few I fear.

[ZtyX]

Well, maybe that came out too strong Ansgarisen.
I still think, for the most part, that the extrinsic motivation counts for more than the intrinsic does. A fault in your argumentation is that those agency people still get to talk to a boss and they feel important because they know society treasures people like them. They know they matter.

[Crumplecorn]

You are insane if you think people will put their lives on the line for the nice fuzzy feeling of 'society treasuring them'. They do it because they believe in and of themselves in the objectives of their organisation.

Looking for external motivation is seeking a replacement for real motivation. Looking for external approval is seeking a replacement for confidence or belief in yourself or what you are doing. Dependencies on others created by weaknesses.

[flakmonky]

Well, maybe that came out too strong Ansgarisen.
I still think, for the most part, that the extrinsic motivation counts for more than the intrinsic does. A fault in your argumentation is that those agency people still get to talk to a boss and they feel important because they know society treasures people like them. They know they matter.

Eh, for most, you may be correct. For me, the joy of the discovery is the highest it gets. I'll help others and share my knowledge with them, but the real joy is that moment of final comprehension.

[ZtyX]

You are insane if you think people will put their lives on the line for the nice fuzzy feeling of 'society treasuring them'. They do it because they believe in and of themselves in the objectives of their organisation.

Looking for external motivation is seeking a replacement for real motivation. Looking for external approval is seeking a replacement for confidence or belief in yourself or what you are doing. Dependencies on others created by weaknesses.

I very much disagree, but perhaps I should rephrase.
You need a good mix between the two, but you cannot go without the one or the other. It simply becomes meaningless to do things only for yourself. .. That's why giving feels so good.

[Bejita231]

Have fun throwing shit at each other on a regular basis, i can see how popular your guild will be if you enjoy that stuff

[Crumplecorn]

becomes meaningless to do things only for yourselfWhy.

Why are things which gain recognition or approval from others inherently more meaningful? Some of the most famous works of art in history were not recognised at large nor appreciated until their creator was dead. What then?

I'm not saying recognition and approval aren't nice, they are, but they are shallow, auxiliary, unnecessary things. Anything worth doing is worth doing in and of itself, anything done for the appreciation of others is a means to an end.

[Stormtalons]

This utterly and completely belongs in OT.

[AnsgarIsen]

You are insane if you think people will put their lives on the line for the nice fuzzy feeling of 'society treasuring them'. They do it because they believe in and of themselves in the objectives of their organisation.

Looking for external motivation is seeking a replacement for real motivation. Looking for external approval is seeking a replacement for confidence or belief in yourself or what you are doing. Dependencies on others created by weaknesses.

Quite exactly so. Also, there is no "boss" giving you the reward you're looking for. That might be a bonus, but not what counts for people really motivated for what they're doing. You simply wouldn#t be able to gather the needed aount of great and charismatic leaders in order to run a system like that.

Again Ztyx, it's not the extrinsic motivation that carries you longterm. In fact it fails whenever the going gets tough.

Goodies and shake hands doesn't carry you through hard times, that's why companies like Blizzard, to come back to gaming, have the need to always come up with new goodies, new rewards, new threadmills. Their gamers' loyality ends as soon as there is no new treat around the corner any more. In that case, they will fall out rapidly and go for the next big thing. Unfortunately this mentality by now effectively makes the vast majority of the communtiy. That is exactly why doing somehting realy different is connected to so much risk and is bound to fail that easily.

[Abra]

He has a point.

But then again at the end, meet those who are left at the end of the world.

[Reichsdiener]

I agree with the content, but I find the context in which it is understood as quite limited.

Still, this cause is worth supporting, the social aspect is what made me play all those crappy cash-cows.

[tejón]

Drama isn't crap. - Drama is what makes life interesting.
Only if you're too young (or retarded) to have figured out anything better to do with your time.

[Poco87]

Shouldn't this be in off topic?

[Megumi]

Drama (http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/3060/dramaii8.jpg)

[DocGonzo]

you like drama eh?

ok..i'll be as dramatic as possible!!

::Snidely Whiplash voice::::

now tis time to rectally violate you with this baseball bat, and since you enjoy the dramatic flair...no lube 4 u!!!

/end voice

how's that?

[Honest Bill]

My view on shutting the fuck up...

It is good