Claus @ Rpg Vault Online Worlds Roundtable

[G.Struepp]

A very intresting read:

Online Worlds Roundtable #10, Part 1 (http://rpgvault.ign.com/articles/500/500093p1.html)

Especially when you compare Claus point of view with the one the Producer of SWG (Haden B.) has.


I picked up some quotes, first Claus:
"[...]While we continue to see fresh and exciting single-player and multiplayer games released each quarter, the PSW titles have been either bland and boring and/or had fatal technological problems that have all but buried any signs of innovation and fun under crashes, lag, and frame rate problems. [...]
There also has to be an end to companies releasing unfinished games.[...]"

Especially the last statement is exactly on big issue SWG has now - it was total unbalanced once it was relased, it was not finished. To be fair i have to admit that a lot thing changed to positiv and i think it reached the point it should have had at its release. Now the Devs facing a communtiy which is one the one hand upset about so many pvp combat issues, profession unbalances - on the other hand a same amount which uses the advantages, and don't wont to find themself weakend.

I really like Claus' Statements, opposing to Haden he speaks like a gamer, not someone who cares mainly on fast money (though haden has of course some true points aswell, but comparing SWG and his statement sounds like he would prefer producing fast food mmorpgs - like the music industry is promoting britney spears music, just quick produced to make money)

[Lysandor]

Yeah, Haden isn't someone I want involved with something I'm paying for...

If the devs for DFO stick with the general jist of what Claus said, it will be an awesome and revolutionary MMO...

[Mhorham]

Thanks for that link. It was a good read.

It was cool to see how these game developers thought. The gamecube dev was interesting. "Give them better graphics" :rolleyes:

Claus sounds like a gamer because he is/was a gamer. The guy was in a respected guild (BRN) in early Darktide AC. He has seen everything we have and then some. His coments were right on the money for where I stand and what I want. I'm kinda suprised at that because I see myself as too casual for mainstream.

I am glad to see stabillity and pollish make his list of shortcomings in mmos. Everytime I see something from thiese guys (RW) it just makes me appreciate them more.

I just hope I still have some game life in me when this thing finaly makes it out.

[Matriel]

Is it just me or is Claus the only one of those that had an optimistic view of the MMO industry. Everyone else chalked up excuses on why the explosion of subscribers wasn't there and he was just like, the game hasn't been made yet. Maybe its just that he writes like a gamer and as such I understand him better, however his article piece was definitely the most worth reading.

[AkielVonStrife]

I think Claus's comments were dead on. It's really common sense, something I think the industry big-wigs tend to purposely ignore because it's not part of a profitable business model. I think that's about to change.

[troyforever]

Good post, good read.

[Satorian]

Claus' contribution was spot on: There are no players because there are no games anybody wants to play. That's exaggerated but fits for our kind. That's why no new user explosions happened. Brutal, but honest: The games suck.

And I actually think Haden is spot on, too. But when it comes to John Doe and the casual gamer though. He wants to move MMO's from being encompassing ways of life to casual diversification like any other game. That may deviate from the hardcore gamer's point of view, but I think he's right, there is certainly a niche for him, and he can do with his games what he wants, although it's sometimes sad to see an IP license subjectively spoiled.

As for two clueless contributors:


Tobi Ragaini, The Matrix Online: 'It's all about the setting. People want a setting to their liking and medieval fantasy has been exploited beyond use. Let's give them something else and cater to every demographic subunit based on attributes like age and gender.'

This man is totally clueless and shooting in the dark. He must have stayed up nights to find this answer. Hogwash.


Stephane Quilichini (Lead Game Designer (sic!)), Dark and Light: 'It's all about the l337 GFX, yo!'

Right. It's only about the graphics. Nothing else concerns us, nothing else bothers us with MMORPGs: Sweet candy fluff.


Avoid those two games at all costs with such people behind them.

[Dorundain]

I especially enjoyed the "No, no - better graphics really are the answer." (mercilessly paraphrased) at the end, from Stephane, the Dark and Light representative.

This article reminded me - not that I needed it, mind you; my fanboy blood runs thick - why I'm following Darkfall and not the hyped-up Everquest clones.

Unfortunately, I think there was a great deal of truth in the predictions that the SWG guy made. It is a sad truth that people won't choose something just because it's *better* than its competition. Just look at VHS vs. BetaMax, Windows vs. Mac (I'll let you guys interpret that one how you will), or any random hole-in-the-wall restaurant that serves a better meal than Carl's Jr. for a better price. People are sheep for marketing (myself ashamedly included).

Marketers: "First against the wall when the revolution comes."

[zen_pollo]

Heh...

I think the Matrix Online Dev was onto something by wanting to branch out from traditional markets into demographics that haven't been fully explored yet. In a way, DF follows this trend in that we are not typical MMORPG players.

Nevertheless, I disagree with the above post regarding DnL. Strangely enough, DnL is a game developed by French designers for a primarily French market. If you visit their homepage and forums, you'll find about half the posts are in French and the rest are in English. One of the funniest aspects of that community is that the devs will post a new screenshot and the fans will critique it! I've seen prefectly average screenshots ravaged by folks, not so much for the graphics themselves, but because the picture's content was boring!

See:
http://www.darknlight.net/index.php?module...4&orderby=dateD (http://www.darknlight.net/index.php?module=My_eGallery&do=showpic&gid=1&pid=204&orderby=dateD)

and

http://www.darknlight.net/index.php?module...2&orderby=dateD (http://www.darknlight.net/index.php?module=My_eGallery&do=showpic&gid=1&pid=182&orderby=dateD)

My point in this diatribe is that DnL caters to a market with two defining characteristics:
1) Francophone
and more importantly...
2) Visually discerning
Perhaps the Dev merely is catering to his audience--just like Claus and the other devs here try to cater to our tastes?

Of course, I'm just jealous because DnL is actually in Beta!!

[Mhorham]

I aggree that Df is trying to cross the divide between genre Zen. It's somethng that seems to be lost on alot of the third person rpg proponents that are awaitng Df.

[Alistair]

Great read, thanks for posting that. I think Claus was the only one on the panel who didn't come off as totally clueless in one way or the other. Although almost all of them at least had some good points (DnL guy being the exception -- wow, that game must suck bad).

Interestingly, almost all of these guys fail to appreciate the tremendous potential of PSWs. It's not about little games made by Coca-Cola. It's not the 'horror films' of video games, MORON.

The number of people I know who think that PSWs are an incredible entertainment medium = the number of people I know who have ever played more than a few hours in a decent PSW. Of which there have been very few. Millions of people all over the world have never even played a decent PSW game and they are still hooked. But some people just can't put 2+2 together. I think Claus gets it, though, at least for the most part.

--Alistair

[CrimsonDawn]

good post. Quite accurate. I think that most games are just put out now that have been poorly developed and require alot more thought. Can't say much more considering the article said it all. Good show

[Lucus AH]

Originally posted by zen_pollo@Mar 20 2004, 06:52 PM
I think the Matrix Online Dev was onto something by wanting to branch out from traditional markets into demographics that haven't been fully explored yet.  In a way, DF follows this trend in that we are not typical MMORPG players.
That's why we're all here. I agree completely.

[RipSnort]

There's a lot of interesting PSW's on the horizon and I keep leaning towards one or the other. After reading Claus's comments and his philosophy on what will make a game good I'm leaning so far over towards DarkFall I've fallen over and can't get up. :)

[olemak]

Aye, Claus definately has a clue. He's a gamer, not a pinstripe, and I genuinely believe that he and the core of the DF team are actually making a game that they want to play. Morgaine knows that they've followed a rocky path, and that they could make lots of money taking a quick and easy, but less challenging and rewarding route. Look at Erik's dev letter on the Darkfall server being developed for "massive parralell computing" from the ground up... I am no techie, but that stuff blows my mind even though I don't understand half of it. He'd get paid top dollar for working on bland database optimization for some developer of finacial transaction software or whatever. But he chooses to move to Greece to make a GAME, because that is where his passion lies.

Same for the rest of them, all of them. These guys live to create a truly exeptional game, and I think they'll deliver us the goods.

Graphics certainly ain't everything. But that said - I will definitely invest in a top-end system to get as much as possible out of this game. For the PC industry, Darkfall is one of those rare killer apps that make people want to upgrade bigtime. SWG I am quite happy playing at mediocre resolution and low gfx detail - but when Darkfall comes out, I want it to look as good as possible. Not for the graphics, as such - but for what the graphics represent:

Depth and meaning.

Where other games are mostly surface, Darkfall actually has something going on beneath the surface, at deeper levels. I believe Claus and the rest of the team gets this, and I believe Darkfall will run circles around most of the "competition".

It is very nice to see little Razorwax with their virtually un-publicized first title go toe to toe with heavies like Sony/LucasArts in roundtables like that - and "winning" the debate so thoroughly. Glad they ask the dark horse to sit in with the heavies like this.

The biggest challenge I see for Darkfall is actually to bring in the crowds. If you bulid it, they wil come, yes... but they must know about it. Every single person I have mentioned this game to has developed a desire to play it after reading the faq and feature list... but how can Darkfall measure marketing muscle with the likes of Sony? That will perhaps be the most interesting test - and I suspect that the marketing will pick up conciderably once the new website gets airborne.

[Xman]

It was a very good read.(roundtable #10 claus)

I think that it is impossible to please the entire gaming world. There is no way to please everyone. You have to decide on who you are trying to please, and what you want to bring to the world of MMORPG's. Then you must take that, stick with it and improve on it.

I have not really had an interest in playing MMORPG's since UO. I have tried many games, as every hardcore PvP'er has, and come to an extreme bore. I personally do not care for all the graphics, but more about stability,tougher monsters,freedom, and PvP. Though graphics are cool, but a resource hog.

I think that you guys are doing great, as most other games have done great for the gamer that they are looking for.

I hope that this game isn't going to fall to the cries of the victims and the barney's, that do not want to be involved in getting PK'ed or taunted. In UO, that is exactley what happened, they started off with all this freedom, no statloss, house looting and break-ins and much much more. Then all of a sudden there was a large cry from a community that did not want to be Pk'ed, or taunted, or even botherd.

They wanted to be able to run there store, mine, etc.... so then it began, stat loss was invoked, language was watched, taunting was watched, they were jailing us, suspending our accts, and even banning us.

I think that most of you know this story, and I hope that you here in DF, stand behind those comments of freedom in the game, and if you don't like it, to bad comments that were made.

UO seen that there was more money to be made from the barneyland RPG'ers, rather than us Hardcore PvP'ers.

Thank you for bringing us a game that we can really look foward to.

Xman_MDK ( Our whole guild was banned to be an example )