Stats based RPGs.... More fun to cheat?

[Lethn]

So here's my dilemma I bought Vampire: The Masquerade awhile ago and I was nearing the end ( won't spoil it for those who haven't played it ) where I was coming up to these huge and very annoying bosses and traps and I thought to myself as I looked at my character sheet screen "Hang on, I've fucking put as many stats as I can in this character and I still keep getting killed, not because of my lack of genuine skill but because of how fucking tought the monster is and not having good enough items".

Now I could have just gone to an earlier save because I've learned to save constantly in tough games but then I thought "Why the fuck should I? I've gotten this far on pure skill and grit alone so why am I being punished for it?" then I just opened up the console and spammed all th items and stats that I needed, yeah it was cheating but most importantly I found it FUN.

What pisses me off is that I got that far and then the game punished me for getting that far without getting every single bloody item and doing every single fucking quest to get the experience needed to beat the damn bosses. Again and again even in games like Baldurs Gate 2 which I really enjoyed playing I just got sick and tired of coming up against an undefeatable boss which I couldn't beat not because I didn't have the skill or the know-how but because I hadn't gathered up that particular item and do that particular quest.

It's even the same with stats based cookie-cutter RTS' why is it, that I must get punished simply for not bending to the rules of the game just because I prefer using a certain unit rather than the standard mob of other unit that most players prefer to use?

I just felt an insane need to rant I'm afraid and I was just wondering if anyone else had the same types of experiences with these sorts of games.

[heroshade]

For some games it is fun, but for games like Morrowind or Oblivion (I never played the game you're talking about) I usually just end up slaughtering the entire world.

[Tiarilir]

Lulz, you suck lethn. You're simply not good enough to play RPG's.

[Lethn]

Clearly you didn't read, I was almost at the end but couldn't be fucking bothered constantly dying and trying to figure out what it was that I did wrong and I don't care, I found it far more fun than just getting pissed off because the game wouldn't let me progress anymore.

Also for the record I've never cheated in any other games like Morrowind because they allow you to use some tactics instead of just force you to go back.

[heroshade]

Clearly you didn't read, I was almost at the end but couldn't be fucking bothered constantly dying and trying to figure out what it was that I did wrong and I don't care, I found it far more fun than just getting pissed off because the game wouldn't let me progress anymore.

Also for the record I've never cheated in any other games like Morrowind because they allow you to use some tactics instead of just force you to go back.

It's alot tougher in a game with no cheats (Like Final Fantasy XII) when you're trying to beat a boss (like the elder wyrm) that casts a shit load of debuffs on you (Like silence, oil, confuse, blind, and petrify.)

[IthroZada]

I usually just end up slaughtering the entire world.
'With this character's death, the thread of prophecy is severed. Restore a saved game to restore the weave of fate or persist in the doomed world you have created.'
lol

[heroshade]

'With this character's death, the thread of prophecy is severed. Restore a saved game to restore the weave of fate or persist in the doomed world you have created.'
lol

Yup. Thats what I was goin' for.

[Silverhandorder]

It depends. I can't agree on the RTS part. The stat on the units are there for a reason. You don't fight grunts with peasents just because you like peasents.

On the other hand I hate how there is often only one way to beat a game.

[Lamiosa]

What clan did you play? I played a Ventrue and did not have any problems. Dominate is nice for fights and conversations.

[FermentedLies]

Honestly, the combat is too clunky for skill, excluding well timed-kiting.

Also, did you use guns? That could easily be your issue...

Malkavian. <4

[Devant]

Well, do not forget that supernatural creatures can soak standard damage, you need to do aggravated, and for late game, this means tons of it. Either you call it grenades, claws, or blood magic, each character has its own ways...

Althought I adore both Malkavian and Tremere, Brujah become killing machines after a while, with Gangrel going even further, a bit later. Also, Toreador, might not be your typical slaughterhouse, but celerity can do wonders.

[Feyrband]

apparently you blew your load early.

[Lamiosa]

Well, do not forget that supernatural creatures can soak standard damage, you need to do aggravated, and for late game, this means tons of it. Either you call it grenades, claws, or blood magic, each character has its own ways...

Althought I adore both Malkavian and Tremere, Brujah become killing machines after a while, with Gangrel going even further, a bit later. Also, Toreador, might not be your typical slaughterhouse, but celerity can do wonders.

Has it a reason to not count Ventrue? *gg* I only say, dominate does much damage (has for example "suicide" (instant kill for lesser creatures, high damage for bosses and such) and "mass suicide" or "control". Also usefull for conversations. Then Ventrue also have "fortitude" which gives you resistance to damage. I skilled into guns and those two and did not die a single time against the boss.

[Devant]

Has it a reason to not count Ventrue? *gg* I only say, dominate does much damage (has for example "suicide" (instant kill for lesser creatures, high damage for bosses and such) and "mass suicide" or "control". Also usefull for conversations. Then Ventrue also have "fortitude" which gives you resistance to damage. I skilled into guns and those two and did not die a single time against the boss.

I didn't mention Ventrue because they were already comented uppon. My point was mostly that each clan has its own style, that pretty much defines the best way to do the killing, but there are no "weak" clans.

[PrimalSign]

I dunno how you had trouble. I managed to beat the game using a social-based Ventrue brawler with only minor problems, and then as a stealth-based Malkavian with some skill at firearms (which was easy mode in comparison).

We are talking about Vampire: Bloodlines, right?

[Xzi]

So here's my dilemma I bought Vampire: The Masquerade awhile ago and I was nearing the end ( won't spoil it for those who haven't played it ) where I was coming up to these huge and very annoying bosses and traps and I thought to myself as I looked at my character sheet screen "Hang on, I've fucking put as many stats as I can in this character and I still keep getting killed, not because of my lack of genuine skill but because of how fucking tought the monster is and not having good enough items".

Now I could have just gone to an earlier save because I've learned to save constantly in tough games but then I thought "Why the fuck should I? I've gotten this far on pure skill and grit alone so why am I being punished for it?" then I just opened up the console and spammed all th items and stats that I needed, yeah it was cheating but most importantly I found it FUN.

What pisses me off is that I got that far and then the game punished me for getting that far without getting every single bloody item and doing every single fucking quest to get the experience needed to beat the damn bosses. Again and again even in games like Baldurs Gate 2 which I really enjoyed playing I just got sick and tired of coming up against an undefeatable boss which I couldn't beat not because I didn't have the skill or the know-how but because I hadn't gathered up that particular item and do that particular quest.

It's even the same with stats based cookie-cutter RTS' why is it, that I must get punished simply for not bending to the rules of the game just because I prefer using a certain unit rather than the standard mob of other unit that most players prefer to use?

I just felt an insane need to rant I'm afraid and I was just wondering if anyone else had the same types of experiences with these sorts of games.
You fail. Seriously. I think I went off story maybe once in Bloodlines and still beat it all the way through using no cheats and not once dying. Was a lot of fun and a great RPG, but I wouldn't consider it challenging by any means.

[antihero-zero]

Is the OP the guy that they dumb down games for?

[Lethn]

Is the OP the guy that they dumb down games for?

This is why I write walls of texts so people who don't read them look incredibly stupid.

[Tiarilir]

This is why I write walls of texts so people who don't read them look incredibly stupid.

Your walls of texts makes you look stupid, too. You basically ranted about how you cheated and enjoyed it. OH YOU'RE AWESOME, LETHN!

[Lethn]

I ranted about how I cheated and I enjoyed it because of shitty stats based games that force you to play by their rules in order to enjoy the game, kkthxbai troll.

[Tiarilir]

I ranted about how I cheated and I enjoyed it because of shitty stats based games that force you to play by their rules in order to enjoy the game, kkthxbai troll.

And what game doesn't do that? I hate how you don't quote any guy you reply to, even if he made a post 3 pages back, 4 days ago.

[Beal]

Lethn,

Sorry but I have to agree with most people here, though calling you a moron and such is a bit excessive I do think it is your skill that made you have a hard time as the game is pretty average compared to most games. No offense.

Oh and yes I did read your whole post, you were quite specific about your lack of skill basically.


About cheating; I do it sometimes but I find it makes most games rather boring after only playing it for awhile.

[Scully]

I used to cheat a lot back when I was a casual gamer. But nowadays it just ruins the fun for me.

Man... I got to play Vampire : Bloodlines again. This time as the crazy vampire clan, Malkavian was it?

[hardboiled]

So here's my dilemma I bought Vampire: The Masquerade awhile ago and I was nearing the end ( won't spoil it for those who haven't played it ) where I was coming up to these huge and very annoying bosses and traps and I thought to myself as I looked at my character sheet screen "Hang on, I've fucking put as many stats as I can in this character and I still keep getting killed, not because of my lack of genuine skill but because of how fucking tought the monster is and not having good enough items".

Now I could have just gone to an earlier save because I've learned to save constantly in tough games but then I thought "Why the fuck should I? I've gotten this far on pure skill and grit alone so why am I being punished for it?" then I just opened up the console and spammed all th items and stats that I needed, yeah it was cheating but most importantly I found it FUN.

What pisses me off is that I got that far and then the game punished me for getting that far without getting every single bloody item and doing every single fucking quest to get the experience needed to beat the damn bosses. Again and again even in games like Baldurs Gate 2 which I really enjoyed playing I just got sick and tired of coming up against an undefeatable boss which I couldn't beat not because I didn't have the skill or the know-how but because I hadn't gathered up that particular item and do that particular quest.

It's even the same with stats based cookie-cutter RTS' why is it, that I must get punished simply for not bending to the rules of the game just because I prefer using a certain unit rather than the standard mob of other unit that most players prefer to use?

I just felt an insane need to rant I'm afraid and I was just wondering if anyone else had the same types of experiences with these sorts of games.

Will you ever shut the fuck up?
Seriously, you suck, if you're not willing to admit that then at least admit that nobody cares that you suck so please stop proving it.

[Lictor]

So here's my dilemma I bought Vampire: The Masquerade awhile ago and I was nearing the end ( won't spoil it for those who haven't played it ) where I was coming up to these huge and very annoying bosses and traps and I thought to myself as I looked at my character sheet screen "Hang on, I've fucking put as many stats as I can in this character and I still keep getting killed, not because of my lack of genuine skill but because of how fucking tought the monster is and not having good enough items".

Now I could have just gone to an earlier save because I've learned to save constantly in tough games but then I thought "Why the fuck should I? I've gotten this far on pure skill and grit alone so why am I being punished for it?" then I just opened up the console and spammed all th items and stats that I needed, yeah it was cheating but most importantly I found it FUN.

What pisses me off is that I got that far and then the game punished me for getting that far without getting every single bloody item and doing every single fucking quest to get the experience needed to beat the damn bosses. Again and again even in games like Baldurs Gate 2 which I really enjoyed playing I just got sick and tired of coming up against an undefeatable boss which I couldn't beat not because I didn't have the skill or the know-how but because I hadn't gathered up that particular item and do that particular quest.

It's even the same with stats based cookie-cutter RTS' why is it, that I must get punished simply for not bending to the rules of the game just because I prefer using a certain unit rather than the standard mob of other unit that most players prefer to use?

I just felt an insane need to rant I'm afraid and I was just wondering if anyone else had the same types of experiences with these sorts of games.

Which bosses are you speaking about??? I had no problems with any boss in this game whatsoever, no matter which clan I have played (Malkavian, Toreador and Gangrel). Each clan has some pro's and con's, you just have to use their disciplines intelligently and develop a character wisely. Some disciplines suck, some suck only with certain clans, and so on. Farming experience in this game is important, but hey, if you don't like doing quests, why do you play this game in the first place?!

I am going to play it once more as a Nosferatu. What pisses me off is the fact, that many people in game refuse to even talk to me - so many quests are just impossible to get. Has anyboddy here played Bloodlines as a Nosferatu, want to give some hints and/or suggestions, does Nosferatu character have some recompensation for being ostracized by majority of mortals (not to mention Masquerade breach bs)?

[Arkh]

Can't remember if it was in the masquerade or bloodline but a combo of invisibility + blood leech spell was the sexy to finish the game. Just go to the boss invisible style, leech is blood while he kills your pals and when he's dry burn it.

[Rokolith]

I know what you mean. Sometimes in games its just arbitrary stats that decide everything and it annoys the shit out of me. I cheat in games like that sometimes too.

[Helgeran]

You fucking suck. Even if the snail boss was hard as fuck I beat it with like two in firearms and melee (but with 5 celerity to get the spawns without wasting too much ammo) you just need to use a few blood packs to kill it. Third try I made it. That is NOTHING like hard games in the past, I tried about 20 times fighting a dragon in BG2 before I got the best tactic down. It's the hardest boss btw, La Croix is super easy unless you're a retard.

[lordbelerial]

Honestly, the combat is too clunky for skill, excluding well timed-kiting.

Also, did you use guns? That could easily be your issue...

Malkavian. <4

hell yeah, malks ftw

[Lamiosa]

hell yeah, malks ftw

Sometimes Insanity is the key if logic says impossible ;)

[lordbelerial]

Sometimes Insanity is the key if logic says impossible ;)

haha exactly.

insanity is the only real sanity

[epicor]

I never finished FF7 for this exact reason. I ran through the game and had a great time at it, but at the final fight I was on this ledge that you couldnt get back from with a save point on it. So i saved there and ended up not being geared/leveled/whatever enough to beat the final boss. Anyway I was stuck there and i never went back to replay the WHOLE GAME because of that stupid ledge.

[Kusghuul]

That game is TOUGH if you go Toreador and maxed out your social skills ASAP. Bums would pick fights with you and win. Got to the Dame and actually couldn't do it.

And Morrowind was a piece of piss compared to Bloodlines imo.

[Helgeran]

That game is TOUGH if you go Toreador and maxed out your social skills ASAP. Bums would pick fights with you and win. Got to the Dame and actually couldn't do it.

And Morrowind was a piece of piss compared to Bloodlines imo.
Well, obviously. I won the game as Toreador, to be honest celerity was what made the game playable to me since the combat is so boring without it. With it firefights become a beatiful dance. Graphics wise I think Bloodlines look like shit (apart from important NPC conversations, best face action ever) but in the fight vs. the SWAT guys in the end with celerity the massive amount of slowed down bullets looks awesome.

[Spinewire]

I ranted about how I cheated and I enjoyed it because of shitty stats based games that force you to play by their rules in order to enjoy the game, kkthxbai troll.
Nobody else has that problem with the game, it's just becaue your drawing skills are like you gaming skills...

[Saturday Saint]

'With this character's death, the thread of prophecy is severed. Restore a saved game to restore the weave of fate or persist in the doomed world you have created.'
lol

Jury-rigged ftw?

[Lethn]

Nobody else has that problem with the game, it's just becaue your drawing skills are like you gaming skills...

That is the lamest troll ever Spinewire, I expected far better from you, on Age of Chivalry and games that I actually like playing I can easily get at the top of the rankings in the matches I play, I even got 6 kills in a row when I was fighting with a halberd on AoC once. So that should actually say something about my ability with gaming.

As for drawing, I've actually been improving lately, going to post up some newer stuff soon.

[Morthor]

Baldur's Gate wasnt like that. I remember coming up against Kangaxx the Demi-Lich, who if you didnt play it, was almost impossible to beat most of the time, and trying and realising I had no chance. I wasnt pissed off at the game because I still had hundreds of quests and item still to get and i was only like level 25 or so. Tough bosses are there to challenge you, not annoy you. If they annoy you maybe youre playing the wrong game ;)

[Kusghuul]

Well, obviously. I won the game as Toreador, to be honest celerity was what made the game playable to me since the combat is so boring without it. With it firefights become a beatiful dance. Graphics wise I think Bloodlines look like shit (apart from important NPC conversations, best face action ever) but in the fight vs. the SWAT guys in the end with celerity the massive amount of slowed down bullets looks awesome.

The graphics didn't bother me too much; i just enjoyed the atmosphere the game managed to create. Right enough, half the NPC's were identical and the music was a bit repetitive, and it was buggy as fuck, but i still thoroughly enjoyed it! Can't remember if i put any points in celerity, might've been worth it!

[slugy]

only games i remember where cheating is fun / worth it, were goldeneye and pain killer. both are not rpgs =[

[Scully]

I can't seem to reinstall it. It only says "play" and "uninstall" on the menu, but since it's not installed it won't play.