The state of RP in MMORPGs today

[Kencathedrus]

Dear Darkfall Community,
For the past several years I have been looking for a game where a mature level of RP takes place.
Lately I have noticed a trend in MMORPGs where the player-base becomes increasingly hostile and intolerant to the concept of RP: 'It's for noobs! Go play SIMS if you want to RP lol!' and other similar answers usually await the eager RPer.
I would like to know if anyone thinks RP should be 'enforced' in Darkfall or should the community take care of it itself? I used to play Neverwinter Nights where moderators could kick you off a server for disrupting RP to playing on an RP realm in World of Warcraft, where, despite the RP tag, you would regularly come across names like Britishrouge, Ikillyoulol, Ipwnurmama etc.
I have often wondered why certain people play in an immersive virtual world only to 'break' the immersion by using leet language and referring to real-life current affairs.
Does anyone know Aventurine's stance with regards to RP and leet-talk?

[Crazy Hermit]

Dear Darkfall Community,
For the past several years I have been looking for a game where a mature level of RP takes place.
Lately I have noticed a trend in MMORPGs where the player-base becomes increasingly hostile and intolerant to the concept of RP: 'It's for noobs! Go play SIMS if you want to RP lol!' and other similar answers usually await the eager RPer.
I would like to know if anyone thinks RP should be 'enforced' in Darkfall or should the community take care of it itself? I used to play Neverwinter Nights where moderators could kick you off a server for disrupting RP to playing on an RP realm in World of Warcraft, where, despite the RP tag, you would regularly come across names like Britishrouge, Ikillyoulol, Ipwnurmama etc.
I have often wondered why certain people play in an immersive virtual world only to 'break' the immersion by using leet language and referring to real-life current affairs.
Does anyone know Aventurine's stance with regards to RP and leet-talk?

I don't know adventurine's stance with leet speak, but about 90% of forumfall community hates leet speakers, and will probably KOS. As for roleplay, some like, others don't use it.

[Kheiron]

With the full PvP players are able to enforce thier own ideals on the game with force.

Find a group of people who share your desire for RP and simply gank the crap out of people who make it thier mission to ruin your immersion.
If regular deaths dont disuade the little fucker, you could report him for harassment.

[Kencathedrus]

I actually like the idea of smashing other players if I find them annoying. I have just recently quit WoW, because the chat there makes me want to stab myself in the eye. If I could personally go out and whack them that would be a different story...
As for RP, I enjoy it, but I am not someone who spends their whole time RPing. I just get irritated by those players who have to come and spoil others' fun. I am really looking forward to this game coming out :) Hopefully before Christmas?

[ejnomad07]

I don't see how they can ruin your game too much here. Just kill them and they have a long walk back.











............and you have all their stuff...:D

[TatersAndTots]

I don't see how they can ruin your game too much here. Just kill them and they have a long walk back.











............and you have all their stuff...:D

I second the notion :D

[oranson]

The lack of RP kills MMO's for me. I play eq2 currently, but I will be switching as soon as this game is released. I hope the role-playing is heavy.

Eq2, NO ONE roleplays, even on the roleplay servers. A friend of mine plays WOW, he says NO ONE roleplays either. Sad. I love MUDs where everyone is forced to roleplay. Good stuff! :cool:

[Marrik]

probably the vast majority wont roleplay, so we will have to form roleplay clans

[Lamiosa]

Sadly the interests into roleplay have been mainly replaced with interests into awsome grafics and detailed fights. Before there have been even PC-RPGs, the "older" generation played table-tops P&P or went even to LARPs. This generation generally are 20+ people, so the following generation are more the ones who got to know "roleplay" which I would call "pseudo-roleplay", because it only had "action roleplay game" or something with roleplay in name, but does not force the player to do any roleplay than hack&slaying. So mainly people who are interested into deep roleplay, or communities with play on roleplay-servers on older platforms (as you can make own UO-Freeshards for example), are mainly those, who got to know roleplay before this hack&slay-generation.

[oranson]

Sadly the interests into roleplay have been mainly replaced with interests into awsome grafics and detailed fights. Before there have been even PC-RPGs, the "older" generation played table-tops P&P or went even to LARPs. This generation generally are 20+ people, so the following generation are more the ones who got to know "roleplay" which I would call "pseudo-roleplay", because it only had "action roleplay game" or something with roleplay in name, but does not force the player to do any roleplay than hack&slaying. So mainly people who are interested into deep roleplay, or communities with play on roleplay-servers on older platforms (as you can make own UO-Freeshards for example), are mainly those, who got to know roleplay before this hack&slay-generation.

Agreed. Nowadays it's more so about rushing to lvl cap. Hack&slash your way up the lvl ladder. Got a friend who still plays table top rpgs. ;)

[Nevi M'Or]

I am a huge fan of Dungeons & Dragons and still play edition 3.5 to this day.

People make fun of me and call me a losser because I role-play. I have one message for all of those people. I am 23 years old, make more money than most 40 year olds, drive a nice car and live in a sweet apartment. I am college educated and work as an engineer. If you are unemployed and a highschool drop-out living with mom and dad in your late 20's, don't call me a losser. Look in the morror.

[Keliin]

Roleplaying is still very much alive, it just depends on the game. Head over to the Landroval server of Lord of the Rings Online for an example. Sure, you still get some l33t d00d speak, and the occasional silly name, but the RP community is VERY strong. On any given night you can go to any town and find at least a couple people roleplaying. You can even find them acting out RP events such as trade caravans being attacked, city guards, etc.

Even if you don't find any of the random stuff in the wilds, or in the lesser traveled villages and towns, you can always default to Bree and hit up The Prancing Pony. From morning to morning there are people there roleplaying, without fail.

Now, for Darkfall, it is a tricky question. In theory, you can't have truly "good" roleplay without PvP, and this game is all PvP all the time. That being the case, the setting lends itself VERY well to a good RP community. The problem is the FPS mentality of many of today's MMO players, especially in a game based around PvP. I personally feel that if one of the servers is made to be the unofficial roleplay server, and active RP clans play there, things will be rosy.

Only time will truly tell though. To answer the OP's question directly now... No, I don't think RP should be forced in a game like this. As much as the roleplayers would like it, it would cause rebellions against the idea, and it would lead to game problems we just don't need.

[Lethn]

Before you start talking about or even roleplaying in-game please learn proper punctuation and grammar.

Oh and if you have a problem with the non-roleplayers and l33ts in this game kill them, that's the beauty of this game.

[Parat]

Killing in cities leads to "rogue status" ... so, maybe killing isnt always an option.

And the "beauty of the game" COULD easily backlash. Right now, I'm not willing to believe too much of the typical enthusiasm going round.

I'm quite sure DF will be a great game for "normal players", but I dont think it will come anywhere near the beginning of UO in terms of RP. Simple reason: Nowadays, every idiot does have internet connection, and everything is flatrate ... Thats fundamentally different to the exclusive community UO had.

[Yazinda]

I'm quite sure DF will be a great game for "normal players", but I dont think it will come anywhere near the beginning of UO in terms of RP. Simple reason: Nowadays, every idiot does have internet connection, and everything is flatrate ... Thats fundamentally different to the exclusive community UO had.

i completely agree. sad, but true...

Yaz

[Amelung]

More and more children are playing MMOG's, means there must be more and more toygaming for MMOG's to satisfy those younger folks. Children want more toys for playing, not games to master.
And children want most guaranteed success. They are bored by games because they cannot master something and let it be. It must be funny and something to master is only funny if there must never real challenge, best is success comes automatically, only spending time ingame, (absolving quests...thats guaranteed success)
Also mature fellows dont need gaudy fantasy and scifi grafics, interesting gameplay is much more important they want first a challenge to master. And sure thats something not absolute depending on the age, but normally you need many years to have fun for challenges. Ok also a child is proud if it climbs the first time a ladder, but thats also something no mature fellow must be proud for.
Thats my sight on momentary MMORPG's. All (and really all) are immature, because success is guaranteed, sure could be designed with adult appearance. And climbing 'a' ladder is the only challenge.
You can chose in all such games gamestyle you will be successfull, and finally that means there is no gameplay only consuming fitting to your taste entertainment feed. Its virtual toying on a virtual carpet without any consequences for gaming. Very nice, but totally unchallenging.

[vaier]

Age=/= maturity. If you believe that's not so, go fuck yourself now, save me the trouble of putting you on my kos list.

[Parat]

Age=/= maturity. If you believe that's not so, go fuck yourself now, save me the trouble of putting you on my kos list.

While you are absolutely right that age doesnt have to equal the level of maturity, your posting lacks maturity.

I completely loved the sandbox approach of UO, but until proved otherwise, I think that all of our good memories that are connected to UO wouldnt be that great if UO had had a typical MMORPG community like we know from today.

---

I dont mind PvP, I dont mind conflicts in a game. Not at all, and I look back to my UO times and I especially like some of the PVP experiences, that I didnt like then.^^

It all added a notion of danger to adventuring around.

But: Let's assume somebody wants to grief RPers ("cause they suck") and he runs around them all the time, disrupting their events. And whenever you kill him, you get your kill counter up, which leads to being recognized as a criminal after a while.

I think a RP-server might be a good idea, cause there evidently are players nowadays, that get their fun not from PKing (which is okay) but from griefing others (which is not okay).

[Keliin]

While you are absolutely right that age doesnt have to equal the level of maturity, your posting lacks maturity.

I completely loved the sandbox approach of UO, but until proved otherwise, I think that all of our good memories that are connected to UO wouldnt be that great if UO had had a typical MMORPG community like we know from today.

---

I dont mind PvP, I dont mind conflicts in a game. Not at all, and I look back to my UO times and I especially like some of the PVP experiences, that I didnt like then.^^

It all added a notion of danger to adventuring around.

But: Let's assume somebody wants to grief RPers ("cause they suck") and he runs around them all the time, disrupting their events. And whenever you kill him, you get your kill counter up, which leads to being recognized as a criminal after a while.

I think a RP-server might be a good idea, cause there evidently are players nowadays, that get their fun not from PKing (which is okay) but from griefing others (which is not okay).

If they are of a different race, you will not be penalized. You will actually benefit from the kill. If they are the same race as you, I am sure it will count as some form of harassment and I am sure there will be an appeal option of some sort to deal with it.

[Keglanek]

I have found a big problem with most 'MMORPG's' is levels..... If you want to be good at anything you have to grind, grind and grind and once you get to top level you need all the best gear so by the end you walking around with 50 other people that look the same as you. Ultima had the right idea wear good armor but also have accessories to cover that armor or make a guild uniform. You could see a army that look the same or you could have unique look. I hope Darkfall is the same.

[Marrik]

I have found a big problem with most 'MMORPG's' is levels..... If you want to be good at anything you have to grind, grind and grind and once you get to top level you need all the best gear so by the end you walking around with 50 other people that look the same as you. Ultima had the right idea wear good armor but also have accessories to cover that armor or make a guild uniform. You could see a army that look the same or you could have unique look. I hope Darkfall is the same.

they said there were going to be guild uniforms.

and theres no levels, so you wont have to grind as much. you raise your skills by using them, but if you dont want to grind you could duel with a friend and it will raise your weapon skill just as fast.

im sure there will be a little grinding, but not anything like WoW with the loot treadmill.

[Bud Pago]

More and more children are playing MMOG's, means there must be more and more toygaming for MMOG's to satisfy those younger folks. Children want more toys for playing, not games to master.
And children want most guaranteed success. They are bored by games because they cannot master something and let it be. It must be funny and something to master is only funny if there must never real challenge, best is success comes automatically, only spending time ingame, (absolving quests...thats guaranteed success)
Also mature fellows dont need gaudy fantasy and scifi grafics, interesting gameplay is much more important they want first a challenge to master. And sure thats something not absolute depending on the age, but normally you need many years to have fun for challenges. Ok also a child is proud if it climbs the first time a ladder, but thats also something no mature fellow must be proud for.
Thats my sight on momentary MMORPG's. All (and really all) are immature, because success is guaranteed, sure could be designed with adult appearance. And climbing 'a' ladder is the only challenge.
You can chose in all such games gamestyle you will be successfull, and finally that means there is no gameplay only consuming fitting to your taste entertainment feed. Its virtual toying on a virtual carpet without any consequences for gaming. Very nice, but totally unchallenging.


While I agree with a fair amount of your post, I found most of it VERY difficult to read. I'm not sure if this is because of some language barrier, haste in writing, or that possibly you didn't make any effort in putting together a cohesive sentence. Either way, take this as a constructive criticism if you're trying to get a thread really going.

[Minggo]

I think RPing would be pretty easy to handle without enforcement. This game sounds like it would be hard to kill a mass of RP'ers with just one person. I support RP, even though I do not do it myself. Maybe ill try it out in darkfall ^_^

[Grognak]

Kids are the problem.

Both the kids who are actually children and those who are in their 20's and haven't matured yet.

I can't figure it out, but some social trend in the last 10 years changed the new wave of MMO players into people who enjoy ruining other people's play experience. :(

[Vogular]

Ya i agree with your state.

I am 25, but i start MMO'ing with UO and that is the difference.
When i compare myself to my friends wich i made in WoW i can see a compleet difference...also age involve it, but mostly wich MMO u played on your start of online playing.

And ofcourse the game self to. In some MMO's the hunger of playing playing playing playing to become the best is the only thing u can do.
Not chilling on a saterday evening ingame in a pub with clanies playing Chess or drinking beer

[Phyrehart]

I am a huge fan of Dungeons & Dragons and still play edition 3.5 to this day.

People make fun of me and call me a losser because I role-play. I have one message for all of those people. I am 23 years old, make more money than most 40 year olds, drive a nice car and live in a sweet apartment. I am college educated and work as an engineer. If you are unemployed and a highschool drop-out living with mom and dad in your late 20's, don't call me a losser. Look in the morror.

Amen!!!

[FermentedLies]

I am a huge fan of Dungeons & Dragons and still play edition 3.5 to this day.

People make fun of me and call me a losser because I role-play. I have one message for all of those people. I am 23 years old, make more money than most 40 year olds, drive a nice car and live in a sweet apartment. I am college educated and work as an engineer. If you are unemployed and a highschool drop-out living with mom and dad in your late 20's, don't call me a losser. Look in the morror.

Ouch. Major degradation to you immature lots.

[Ghormaug]

UO was great back in the day, but all the other MMO's have just destroyed RP for me. I won't get into it, I think alot of you know what I'm talking about. I don't think I'll ever feel the "magic" like I did with UO--my first MMO.

RPers kind of annoy me these days as well. They seem snobbish, elite....bleh, don't mean to insult anyone and not trying to smack a generalization on people's playstyle, but it's just what I've encountered recently. And really...who can blame them? I know I got tired and frustrated with griefers. Sure, the game (whichever you are playing) is not just for RPers, and sure, I think alot of RPers can adapt...but it's not just for griefers too. It's alot easier to grief then to RP.

I don't like sitting in a pub all the time RPing, once in awhile it's nice and new, and I don't like being served cookies and pie all the time--it annoys me. Not a fan of weddings either. But this is all my opinion, and I RESPECT and understand why some people enjoy doing these sorts of things.

What I do love about RPing, is meeting some other adventure in the wilds, briefly RPing with them and moving on....then when I see them again, the RP can get a little more interesting, and keeps increasing as I see them. I also enjoy RP "action" events...when a group of people do an activity (a caravan perhaps or some other player controlled event that is not god moded). Events that aren't necessarily staged...perhaps just a general goal, that can adapt to whatever happens in the now.

I don't have high hopes for the type of RP I seek in Darkfall, I think I'll see much of the same. But I do think its possible for everyone with all their different playstyles be it griefer, pver, pvper, RPer, crafter--whatever...I think there will be a niche that everyone can find.

[Nocturne]

UO was great back in the day, but all the other MMO's have just destroyed RP for me. I won't get into it, I think alot of you know what I'm talking about. I don't think I'll ever feel the "magic" like I did with UO--my first MMO.

RPers kind of annoy me these days as well. They seem snobbish, elite....bleh, don't mean to insult anyone and not trying to smack a generalization on people's playstyle, but it's just what I've encountered recently. And really...who can blame them? I know I got tired and frustrated with griefers. Sure, the game (whichever you are playing) is not just for RPers, and sure, I think alot of RPers can adapt...but it's not just for griefers too. It's alot easier to grief then to RP.

I don't like sitting in a pub all the time RPing, once in awhile it's nice and new, and I don't like being served cookies and pie all the time--it annoys me. Not a fan of weddings either. But this is all my opinion, and I RESPECT and understand why some people enjoy doing these sorts of things.

What I do love about RPing, is meeting some other adventure in the wilds, briefly RPing with them and moving on....then when I see them again, the RP can get a little more interesting, and keeps increasing as I see them. I also enjoy RP "action" events...when a group of people do an activity (a caravan perhaps or some other player controlled event that is not god moded). Events that aren't necessarily staged...perhaps just a general goal, that can adapt to whatever happens in the now.

I don't have high hopes for the type of RP I seek in Darkfall, I think I'll see much of the same. But I do think its possible for everyone with all their different playstyles be it griefer, pver, pvper, RPer, crafter--whatever...I think there will be a niche that everyone can find.


You must have hung out with some interesting RP guilds.

RP-PvP is a whole different subset than what's cliched as "RP". I think that is what you should seek out.

PvP guilds built around RP is quite different than RP built for sake of RP.

Here's some good examples of RP-PvP done in 3D mmo's recently:

http://yewmilitia.guildportal.com/ContentControls/Support/InfoSectionViewer.aspx?GuildID=49357&GuildInfoSectionID=164162


It's possible, definetly more difficult, but the fun is there.

RP In Darkfall will definetly be a majority of RP-PvP guilds over pure townie tavern goers. It's the nature of the beast... but I've found RP-PvP adds a greater layer of substance and depth to MMO life.

[Cadoc]

It sure is possible to still have very good RP experiences in MMORPGs these days. hell, the RP I'm having in AoC is some of the best I ever had, and sometimes can be about as fun as a regular PnP game.

The thing is, many roleplayers expect servers where everybody is a roleplayer, there's no OOC talk in /say etc and in general, the level of immersion is very high.

That won't happen again. Labelling servers as RP [which I hear DF won't do?] helps band RPers together, but non-roleplayers will still go there if population is high enough. This has happened on every server I played on, and it's a simple fact that we have to deal with it.

So, a great majority of DF RP will be done inside RP guilds, and between such guilds but... is that such a horrible thing? You get more freedom and option in exchance for shedding a server tag that does very little anyway. Roleplayers will still band together as is our custom, and pending on how much effort WE put in, there still may be lots of RP fun to be had.

[BILLYNOSE]

Sorry, didn't manage to read past the first line of your post, then got rather bored.

Are you talking about how RP's struggle against the PK biased games on the market?

[jackofsticks]

If they are of a different race, you will not be penalized. You will actually benefit from the kill. If they are the same race as you, I am sure it will count as some form of harassment and I am sure there will be an appeal option of some sort to deal with it.

If they're killing a member of their own race, they'll eventually become evil. I believe you can kill evil players without recourse.

[camiox]

UO was great back in the day, but all the other MMO's have just destroyed RP for me. I won't get into it, I think alot of you know what I'm talking about. I don't think I'll ever feel the "magic" like I did with UO--my first MMO.

RPers kind of annoy me these days as well. They seem snobbish, elite....bleh, don't mean to insult anyone and not trying to smack a generalization on people's playstyle, but it's just what I've encountered recently. And really...who can blame them? I know I got tired and frustrated with griefers. Sure, the game (whichever you are playing) is not just for RPers, and sure, I think alot of RPers can adapt...but it's not just for griefers too. It's alot easier to grief then to RP.

I don't like sitting in a pub all the time RPing, once in awhile it's nice and new, and I don't like being served cookies and pie all the time--it annoys me. Not a fan of weddings either. But this is all my opinion, and I RESPECT and understand why some people enjoy doing these sorts of things.

What I do love about RPing, is meeting some other adventure in the wilds, briefly RPing with them and moving on....then when I see them again, the RP can get a little more interesting, and keeps increasing as I see them. I also enjoy RP "action" events...when a group of people do an activity (a caravan perhaps or some other player controlled event that is not god moded). Events that aren't necessarily staged...perhaps just a general goal, that can adapt to whatever happens in the now.

I don't have high hopes for the type of RP I seek in Darkfall, I think I'll see much of the same. But I do think its possible for everyone with all their different playstyles be it griefer, pver, pvper, RPer, crafter--whatever...I think there will be a niche that everyone can find.


I have a similar perspective.

I personally love RPing but I find alot of Roleplayers a bit standoffish at times. I dont blame em, they get alot of flack, but they tend to cluster together and privatize.

that makes it hard for me personally to rp because I'm not the type to go to the tavern and sit and rp. I think some people prefer to rp a second life and others like to rp a movie or an episodic adventure. the latter being the one I lean to.

My prediction about Darkfall is that there will be less l33tbois than in other games because of how indirect the advancment is. I think the absence of big flashy sound effects and graphics telling them they are better will confuse and scare them. And since there is no absolute power since you can outsmart someone and beat them even if they have better skill scores.

and I think another thing that will help is to not privatize rping and do it publicly, ignoring people that try to interfere. Also rping with everyone you encounter just not laying it on very thick at first will help. Not shutting people out because they're just talking normally helps for not seeming standoffish and lightening people's disposition towards rp'rs in general.

Most of all,
RP in "say" channels!
Unless for rp reasons you would whisper or talk quietly. This helps a rp community feel alive! Walking down the street and hearing players conversing instead of just standing there looking at eachother is much more immersive.
I used that approach when Rp'ing in FFXI. Often I would be roleplaying and the other person wouldnt even know it. It's also a good way to meet new people. Who knows you might make a new roleplayer this way. (granted there were few typed accents in FFXI.)

It might also help to dispel the idea that rp'rs are all just nerds that want to cyber.

of course everything should really be treated situationally. But I would like to see an rp community that is more open and confident and doesnt hide inside or rp servers and rp clans.

I think Darkfall promises to be the best rp world around simply because of it's freedom. And because of the skill system, as long as things are balanced, with the exeption of what they say, they will always be playing their character even if they dont talk like it. Even if the rp community is small, the capacity for RP will be HUGE.

[Ariost]

I agree that the game system (blessedly) leans away from the usual MMO fare of everyone rushing for the newest armor/weapon set and then setting off to lord it over lowbies. That was a big problem, I'd noticed, in a lot of games I'd play in the past. Many RPers leveld at a less excitable pace, so they were often easy targets for glory-hog PKers.

Also, it does help when the devs are seen to encourahe, or support, RP, too. There can be times when RPers feel like the game is set up just to make it hard for them to enjoy themselves; and they become a less inclusive group in response. But if they (the gamers) can see that their enjoyment value is being taken into account they have a bit of confidence to publicly start up scenes, or get interest drummmed up in the forums.

[peleev]

I am 25, but i start MMO'ing with UO and that is the difference.
When i compare myself to my friends wich i made in WoW i can see a compleet difference...also age involve it, but mostly wich MMO u played on your start of online playing.

A few years before (5 actually) there was this beautifull UO player-run-shard.. And most of the players there was there in first place becouse of the RP. Back then we had this idea to deal with the l33t LOL-ers. Well every one not roleplaying was acused of being possessed by .. duunno i forgot.. some evil. They were to be cast out.. Acused to be possessed they were thrown out of the guilds and killed on sight.. same was with the macroing guys.. In few words dealing with them the RP way..

[Ariost]

A few years before (5 actually) there was this beautifull UO player-run-shard.. And most of the players there was there in first place becouse of the RP. Back then we had this idea to deal with the l33t LOL-ers. Well every one not roleplaying was acused of being possessed by .. duunno i forgot.. some evil. They were to be cast out.. Acused to be possessed they were thrown out of the guilds and killed on sight.. same was with the macroing guys.. In few words dealing with them the RP way..

Cases like those are great ways to deal with those actively trying to interrupt RP. But consider that most MMOs have the roleplayers as the minority, and such tactics usually do little but encourage griefers to up the ante with their harassment. I've yet to see the Us vs Them mentality to successfully work in a game yet.

[xXReaperXx]

You shouldn't force people to do things they don't want to do. Also the people who say go play Sims If you want RP are right some games are for playing and other RolePlaying.Just because you want something doesn't mean everyone wants to I deffinatly don't want to Role Play. Also if I had to roleplay I have less fun because I'm forced to do things I don't want to so I can stay in character.

[Valthunaer]

Dear Darkfall Community,
For the past several years I have been looking for a game where a mature level of RP takes place.
Lately I have noticed a trend in MMORPGs where the player-base becomes increasingly hostile and intolerant to the concept of RP: 'It's for noobs! Go play SIMS if you want to RP lol!' and other similar answers usually await the eager RPer.
I would like to know if anyone thinks RP should be 'enforced' in Darkfall or should the community take care of it itself? I used to play Neverwinter Nights where moderators could kick you off a server for disrupting RP to playing on an RP realm in World of Warcraft, where, despite the RP tag, you would regularly come across names like Britishrouge, Ikillyoulol, Ipwnurmama etc.
I have often wondered why certain people play in an immersive virtual world only to 'break' the immersion by using leet language and referring to real-life current affairs.
Does anyone know Aventurine's stance with regards to RP and leet-talk?



I would say simply this; that most “RP” for games such as Darkfall will take place between members of specific RP and RP-PVP guilds. It will be up to those guilds to determine their own rule sets for member interactions between guilds with such themes/descriptions individually; i.e. Friend/Ally or KoS/Enemy guild listings, within the “RP” guild community.

As a RP player myself, one who enjoys PVP too, any “restrictions” on either play style would hamper its overall enjoyment for me. To many restrictions or rules governing both RP and PVP tends to make it boring and predictable. Freeform RP and PVP allows for a wide array of encounters, making both play styles unpredictable and interesting.

Basically, within our guild we view this dilemma as such; It’s a game and meant to be fun, allow RP to enhance your gaming time as well as your PVP activities. For those who cant seem to respect other players preferred play styles, /ignore.

[:+:+DarkAngel+:+:]

Roleplaying requires creativity and intelligence, something alot of the newer generation of gamers lack severely

[karatejoe]

Roleplaying requires creativity and intelligence, something alot of the newer generation of gamers lack severely

Indeed, you have to be flooding with intelligence to act as if a video game is real. Not that i have anything against roleplayers, but even if they do get abused and ridiculed by some, alot of them do the same to anyone who doesn't which is hypocritical and obnoxious. As for RP in DF i suspect it would be very good with the freedom and massive world the game gives, but im no rp expert.

[swiftbuster]

Eh im not much of a Roleplayer,but i spose its getting tougher and tougher to actually play an mmorpg like that seeings how there becoming more fast paced and that cant be easy on a rp'r.But thats just me.

[Ariost]

You shouldn't force people to do things they don't want to do. Also the people who say go play Sims If you want RP are right some games are for playing and other RolePlaying.Just because you want something doesn't mean everyone wants to I deffinatly don't want to Role Play. Also if I had to roleplay I have less fun because I'm forced to do things I don't want to so I can stay in character.

Having a game be RP friendly is hardly the same as enforcing it as a set in stone rule (unless, of course there's a server specifically set up for RP). Its as simple as not being a raging douchebag when a group is obviously roleplaying. Don't like RPing? Then don't join in. Carry on as you normally would. RPers are used to being the minority in a group/clan, so they can adapt around members who don't follow along and still contribute.

Most RPers don't expect the entire gaming community to change their play styles to suit them. Just a bit of common courtesy.

[xXReaperXx]

No he said it should be enforced and I said no ,because some people just wnat to play there own way. RP can be fun ,but not for everyone. Also the reason why its dwindling is because majority of people don't want to RP. The game should be play your own way if people make fun of you for doing that then there idiots.

[Ariost]

RP isn't dwindling, it just has taken to being a much more clandestine affair. Between constantly being targeted by...over enthusiastic PvPers, or simply the games themselves dropping the ball on supporting, or encouraging RP...most have simply kept to clan only playing and don't bother with being open about it. Which, obviously works against the RP community as a whole since the outside perspective is that of roleplayers being snobs and what have you.

[camiox]

I feel like rping suffers from misrepresentation.

It's plagued by connotation as a fetish, extreme escapism, and compensation for a lack of real life social skills. When most people see a roleplayer they think the person is just trying to detach themselves from reality not that they're trying to add story elements to their gaming experience.

I think the real main difference between a roleplayer and a standard gamer is that they either never let themselves get sucked into the game world or they never were in a good roleplayed adventure. Anyone who enjoys a good storyline to their games should try roleplaying a quest at least once.

[Ariost]

I agree. Far too foten, roleplayers are perceoved as being weak players. Way back when I played Lineage II (when it first went commercial) the a good portion of the high level characters and powerful clans were heavy into RP. Most didn't discover this until they actually oined in on a party, and were usually shocked that the lvl 60+ Bladedancer carried on as if she were a racist Dark Elf that loathed Orcs.


I feel the core difference between a roleplayer and a "casual"/standard gamer are the level of immersion they allow. Even if you don't adopt speech patterns are play into the lore of the game, if you go around thinking of yourself as this badass killer - are you still not RPing, even in the slightest? It'd be safe to assume that most avid PvPers/PKers/Raiders don't spend their days in real life doing the same things they do in game. So right there, they've adopted a persona of a sorts in order to function in the game world.

[camiox]

heh I hear yah. If it werent for pk'ers there wouldnt really be many people to play the villains in a rp'ers story.

far more roleplayers prefer good characters to evil ones.

[Kohlrabi]

I have to disagree.
I've seen a lot of RPers play rather "evil" characters.
One thing though... many RPers choose to play believable and realistic characters, while the role of "psychopathic serial killer" (thats your villain? :)) is chosen by novice RPers , pkers and non-RPers.

[ahti]

I have to agree with Kohlrabi. When people are roleplaying the usually play a believable person, not some retarded loonatic.

[Ariost]

Yea, RP encourages more fleshed out characters. The cliched villain types don't usually last long in most settings as there predictability usually keeps people away for fear of boredom.

[paganbran]

I'm personaly very fond of playing "evil" characters, but steriotype villains are fun to laugh at :p

[camiox]

pker's are good for villains if the story is sort of like voltron where there's a new baddie that gets killed every episode, or if you're strong enough that you can just have them be the mindless masses through which your character demonstrates his badassness.

[Kohlrabi]

The problem with villains in MMORPG's is that they never die... they come back in the next episode, and the next one after that, and the next one after that... because permadeath doesn't exist, and people don't want to delete their characters.

[liamkincaid]

The problem with villains in MMORPG's is that they never die... they come back in the next episode, and the next one after that, and the next one after that... because permadeath doesn't exist, and people don't want to delete their characters.

that´s true...

[camiox]

but in darkfall, they have to get new equip and you have their old equipment. If they had better gear then you now you have better gear then them and have an advantage, even after you've already demonstrated that you can beat them. And they have to shell out money for more gear.

if they come back, it's either going to be weakened or much later.

[Vaedathor]

Kids are the problem. They

haven't matured yet.



are we talking about people like you now? your on my KOS list, stop bitching

[Manifoldgodhead]

Ya i agree with your state.

I am 25, but i start MMO'ing with UO and that is the difference.
When i compare myself to my friends wich i made in WoW i can see a compleet difference...also age involve it, but mostly wich MMO u played on your start of online playing.

And ofcourse the game self to. In some MMO's the hunger of playing playing playing playing to become the best is the only thing u can do.
Not chilling on a saterday evening ingame in a pub with clanies playing Chess or drinking beer

I totally agree with this. My first MMO was WoW and the only part of it I enjoyed was PvE as a priest where I could pretend that it really was my job to keep these people alive.

I remember times when I would go to the pubs and just sit at a table and listen to the ambiance and wish it were other real people not just a music track.

I'm looking forward to some real RP, this coming from a kid who always wanted to play DnD and tabletop games but never could find anyone else who liked that sort of thing.

Of course I never looked on the internet...

[o0pwnman0o]

1 what im scared of happening if im an rp char is if some guy comes and kills me and my rp friends see and i come back its just like yeah i died....and im suddenly magic so i can revive myself and i'll never be able to rp knowing i can just mess up our rp story by some pk in a rp server who speaks in l33t

2 when kids come and forget its an rp server and mess up being 13 i see how the irony there is amazing but people (like ones in my rl) who just try to %$@# around and im trying to play and they come kill me when im expecting him to rp then says lololol i owned you n00b lololol and i can never get over it and i turn to the darkside of pvp and run around being a prick

[Cealen]

Dear Darkfall Community,
For the past several years I have been looking for a game where a mature level of RP takes place.
Lately I have noticed a trend in MMORPGs where the player-base becomes increasingly hostile and intolerant to the concept of RP: 'It's for noobs! Go play SIMS if you want to RP lol!' and other similar answers usually await the eager RPer.
I would like to know if anyone thinks RP should be 'enforced' in Darkfall or should the community take care of it itself? I used to play Neverwinter Nights where moderators could kick you off a server for disrupting RP to playing on an RP realm in World of Warcraft, where, despite the RP tag, you would regularly come across names like Britishrouge, Ikillyoulol, Ipwnurmama etc.
I have often wondered why certain people play in an immersive virtual world only to 'break' the immersion by using leet language and referring to real-life current affairs.
Does anyone know Aventurine's stance with regards to RP and leet-talk?

I totally agree on your opinnion, Rp in MMO's nowadays is just sad. We are marked as noobs and people seem to forget the RP part in mmoRPg, i to like the system of NWN but it is imposible to create one like it in a major MMO.. Since in NWN the largest server has like 75 man? and for example WOW has over what 2000? on one server (I have really no idea about the exact amount per server) So if Darkfall manages to get a system working for Pure Real RP servers i gues il love them forever :P

[Werewolfe]

I'm going to reinforce the point here that the decline in roleplaying is to some extent the fault of the roleplayers themselves. Most are afraid to put their money where their mouth is.

Yes, it's fine and dandy to sit around a tavern debating Mirdain vs. Alfar relations, but how often do those same debaters actually follow their supposed ideology during gameplay? Would they be willing to refuse to trade with anyone of an opposing ideology, refuse to make their clan ARAC, sacrifice their personal character advancement for a greater goal, or is talking "in-character" all they're good for?
I see no point to roleplaying unless it's an actual part of the game, part of the various interactions (resource gathering, trading, killing, warfare) which make up the persistent world.

The issue of age is also impacted by this. Thinking back to my own first exposure to roleplayers during my teens, i simply did not see any cause to respect people who logged into a game server to do nothing but talk. At the same time that i was greatly enjoying the RP aspects of games like Alpha Centauri (the 'sequel' to civilization 2) or Heroes of Might and Magic and writing half a notebook of character description for my Diablo 2 character, i was completely put off by any roleplayers i found in multiplayer games because of the above-noted lack of integrity.
Younger players are (most likely) newer players. If their first few instances of exposure to online roleplaying are of inconsistent snobs who talk big then ignore their own philosophy in the interest of personal gain, then i don't blame the younger crowd for forming a bad opinion of RPers in general.

[Marilyn]

Dear Darkfall Community,
For the past several years I have been looking for a game where a mature level of RP takes place.
Lately I have noticed a trend in MMORPGs where the player-base becomes increasingly hostile and intolerant to the concept of RP: 'It's for noobs! Go play SIMS if you want to RP lol!' and other similar answers usually await the eager RPer.
I would like to know if anyone thinks RP should be 'enforced' in Darkfall or should the community take care of it itself? I used to play Neverwinter Nights where moderators could kick you off a server for disrupting RP to playing on an RP realm in World of Warcraft, where, despite the RP tag, you would regularly come across names like Britishrouge, Ikillyoulol, Ipwnurmama etc.
I have often wondered why certain people play in an immersive virtual world only to 'break' the immersion by using leet language and referring to real-life current affairs.
Does anyone know Aventurine's stance with regards to RP and leet-talk?
I once created a character named Iownurmama on an rp server.
I'm against enforced rp because I want to play Darkfall, not pretend to be an elf that actually lives in agon.

[Archangelus]

The state of RP in mmorpgs is different from game to game and it depends on the company that runs the game.

For instance, RP in WoW is a joke because Blizzard does not do anything to enforce the rules of conduct. Also, WoW is full of kids and retards who don't have a clue about what "respect for other people" means. They roll a character on a RP server and then complain if you try to speak in character.

Other games are much better, like Warhammer and TLotR. GMs are more keen on making people respect the rules and players are more mature anyway.

[Nadraxes]

Rp is fun. To all those that haven't tried it.. You have no idea what you are missing out on. On the other hand I can understand its not everyones cup of tea. For me, I love it. I've always been in RP guilds of sorts, some were pure rp, others rp-pvp. I enjoy the latter most and will again be part of such a guild here in Darkfall.

On the integrity part, I completely agree. If you are playing someone that hates Alfar.. Then don't trade/interact with them in any other way than that.. Its more than just typing, it should govern the way you play the game.

Also on a quick note: Starsider server in SWG, Mos Eisley Cantina still has people RP'ing all day/night publically, so I agree the clandestine part depends on server/game.

RP-PvP guild in AoC I was/am part of www.Handofset.com

Kind regards,

[Hussard]

Actually, I'd say that true villains are rather uncommon as rp characters. For some reason, people prefer playing characters that deviate too much from the standard that is set by the game lore. As a result, you have, for example, more renegade dark elves than normal dark elves who are supposed to want to kill things for the fun of it.

An experienced roleplayer realises this and will create a character who is as normal as possible in terms of social standing, but who will make up for this mediocrity with a well thought out personality.

A novice, on the other hand, will make an ordinary dark elf into someone who has left his home out of disgust for the crimes of other dark elves. On top of that, his parents will both be dead, and he will also be a vampire. And with that, just about the only normal dark elves left are the NPC's.

[Airowyn]

Time will tell. RPing clans like us Oromea will keep some RPing standards, but its all up to the players. Which is the best part. :)

[Thidias]

I have been playing Role Playing Games for a while now, in a couple of different forms. I have played Dungeons and Dragons games in every edition, DAoC, WoW, AO, and various other smaller, stupider MMOs. I have always been a proponent of Massive Online Gaming, and think that Gamings future in general lies there.

With that said, I am hoping that there are players that do actually ROLE PLAY in an MMORPG that is as amazing as DF. It would be a shame if I logged in for the first time, only to still see the stupid Chuck Norris Jokes, Rascism, and other stupid chat that plagued WoW and lagged servers, slowed down productive players, etc.

I do not think that everyone that plays DF will RP, but I am hoping to find a decent community of RPers. And, as I have been reading this thread, it seems like there will be. =D

[Derosian]

Dear Darkfall Community,
For the past several years I have been looking for a game where a mature level of RP takes place.
Lately I have noticed a trend in MMORPGs where the player-base becomes increasingly hostile and intolerant to the concept of RP: 'It's for noobs! Go play SIMS if you want to RP lol!' and other similar answers usually await the eager RPer.
I would like to know if anyone thinks RP should be 'enforced' in Darkfall or should the community take care of it itself? I used to play Neverwinter Nights where moderators could kick you off a server for disrupting RP to playing on an RP realm in World of Warcraft, where, despite the RP tag, you would regularly come across names like Britishrouge, Ikillyoulol, Ipwnurmama etc.
I have often wondered why certain people play in an immersive virtual world only to 'break' the immersion by using leet language and referring to real-life current affairs.
Does anyone know Aventurine's stance with regards to RP and leet-talk?

You should play on a RP-PVP WoW server, you rarely see names like that for long, because half the time when someone on the opposite faction ganks an RPer and has a OOC name they get reported. =)

[Romans]

Name policies are good.

We kicked a guy named "Fat Tire" out once. But then a kid named "drugz" slipped in and everyone liked him so we were stuck with him.

[minijag]

I don't know adventurine's stance with leet speak, but about 90% of forumfall community hates leet speakers, and will probably KOS. As for roleplay, some like, others don't use it.

Uhh, 90% of forumfall leet speaks.
QQ,
Go play wow.

These aren't really intelligent responses. They are robotic responses from a very elitist point of view. Your concept of leet speak is old. Language's evolve. Its very obvious that 90% of the community are retarded. Just in a different fashion from any other game.

[Sakaio]

Lol @ Fat Tire.


Seriously?

Thats like seeing the name Pugehenis in FFXI tanking a Sky/Sea God.


Thats hilarious.

[Elmo]

Even tho ''leet speek'' happens more often, The RP audience is getting larger.
Some people were born 1337. And will remain 1337. And RP'ers will remain rp'ers.

[Jonkar]

Agreed, the amount of roleplayers continue to grow.

Especially with games like Darkfall, where it's really "easy" to roleplay and get immersed. I believe the amount of roleplayers is only going to increase through time, simply because MMO's and games in general become more immersive.

[Vizzledrix]

I like a little RP from time to time, for me things like drunken bar fighting didn't have to be a feature added to the game we used to RP it. Drunk, no armor or weapons talking trash and fist dueling. Sometimes you have to make your own fun in these games, you get out of it what you put in. Ya know?

[Nocturne]

Killing in cities leads to "rogue status" ... so, maybe killing isnt always an option.

And the "beauty of the game" COULD easily backlash. Right now, I'm not willing to believe too much of the typical enthusiasm going round.

I'm quite sure DF will be a great game for "normal players", but I dont think it will come anywhere near the beginning of UO in terms of RP. Simple reason: Nowadays, every idiot does have internet connection, and everything is flatrate ... Thats fundamentally different to the exclusive community UO had.

This guy knows his stuff.

Irregardless, RP-PvP guilds are out there. Internal RP kung-foo strong... external RP will probably be aggressive pvp action.

[Sakaio]

I've noticed that there a lot of different kind of roleplayers and this got me thinking to a few groups I see a lot.

I'm sure roleplayers have several classifications, but I guess the system I seem to notice is Hardcore, Psuedo-realists, Dumbasses.

On there are the people who "roleplay" roleplay and you can spot these people from a million miles away, adapting colloquialisms, speaking a certain way, really, really going the 500 extra miles. There isn't really anything wrong with this.

Then comes the people who are don't roleplay per-say but know how to actually type in coherent sentences and do not run around spamming
Chuck-Norris jokes, and posting links to Youtube in public chat. These people actually have definitive personalities and aside from knowledge of the modern world, they rarely talk about it. Thus making them interesting characters in the virtual world.

I think I'm part of the second group, you'll never see me saying "lol u ass, suk my balls I took ur crap"

Then again I won't be going "Hail traveler, fancy a flagon of the best meade this side of [insert place here]."

More than likely I'll say something along the lines of, "I don't really understand what is going on, but dare say I've never seen something quite like what I saw when I opened the door and saw a Dwarf on top of a Mahrim."

So for the hardcore RP people, what classifications are there.

[HawkeyePike]

Lately I have noticed a trend in MMORPGs where the player-base becomes increasingly hostile and intolerant to the concept of RP: 'It's for noobs! Go play SIMS if you want to RP lol!' and other similar answers usually await the eager RPer.

I think RP should NOT be enforced. In fact, it cannot be enforced. It will come and go, depending on the type of the game.

The observation above is correct - and there's a reason! Just look at the current MMORPG market! Most MMORPGs are item-based leveling games. Communities in games of that type tend to neglect roleplaying, as they are constantly busy in their treadmill of trying to reach the next level or finding better items.

You could watch this development very well in the famous Ultima Online (a game which was released in 1997 and still has many subscribers). In the beginning, UO was full of RP communities. Over the years, the game changed a lot. The world with former no safe zones (except cities) was split into a PvP and non-PvP world. Equipment in the beginning was not too different, some items were a little better than others, player crafters really could offer a great service. Then they introduced valuable and powerful artifacts which could be obtained by slaying a large number of ridiculously dangerous creatures. That killed the player economy, it ruined game balance. You only could compete if you'd hunt for and equip yourself with artifacts. The game became item-based, and today about 98% of the players do nothing but hunting for uber items. The RP communities shrunk and vanished.

Conclusion: If you introduce pixel crack and things that "force" players into a playstyle where the primary goal is to improve the character and hunt for items, you will kill role playing.

Hawkeye Pike
United Pirates

[Mhorham]

I firmly believe that RP is a constructed ideal best done with small groups. It is not a server wide phenomenon. If you take a collection of groups they will each come up with a unique version of what is happening at the moment. You can not force what one group is thinking onto the others. And especially not onto a game world with thousand of people coming and going every hour. What you can do is create something within your own social group and enjoy what you do. But you need to let go of the idea that the rest of the world should be conforming to your microcosm of fantasy.

[maskedtears]

I think Darkfall will end up having a strong rp community, just because of the way the game is people will end up rping without even knowing they are doing it. Each of us will have our own lives, friends, enemies, and goals. And in that each of us will have our own stories that we will be fullfilling. Sure not everyone is going to pretend to be some lord or hero but most people will being just that people. Even them harassing you in some terms can be applied to rp.

But that's just how I play, so not everyone is as easily amused. :)

[ejnomad07]

I think Darkfall will end up having a strong rp community, just because of the way the game is people will end up rping without even knowing they are doing it. Each of us will have our own lives, friends, enemies, and goals. And in that each of us will have our own stories that we will be fullfilling. Sure not everyone is going to pretend to be some lord or hero but most people will being just that people. Even them harassing you in some terms can be applied to rp.

But that's just how I play, so not everyone is as easily amused. :)

You RP? You post a good argument but I don't think people can RP on accident. It takes some thinking on the users part along with a sensible name. The truly hardcore RPers for instance would find fault with your name.

[maskedtears]

You RP? You post a good argument but I don't think people can RP on accident. It takes some thinking on the users part along with a sensible name. The truly hardcore RPers for instance would find fault with your name.

Haha, the me on the forums has no connection to the me in a game. I keep all my names the same in all forums that it is easier to find what I said for which game at what time. (I like order) And I think you can RP on accident I do it all the time when I play games. It's like with acting if you are truly convincing you can pull others along with you and that is what good rping should be. People should know that they are rping or not. When fully immersed in a game you should not be thinking about ah that dude is this this this, so I need to do this this this. If someone talks to me in a fatherly tone I react accordingly and respond in a respectful and more awe-like manner, or if it is my personality I might rebel against it and call them an old man and tell them to shove off.

It's actions reactions. Even if the person isn't trying to you can get anyone to rp with you if you know how to do it good. I personally will be playing with my sister therefore I will treat her as my sister. And because I treat her as my sister people will naturally think of her as my sister without me having to say so. The way I talk to her and the way others talk to me about her will accurately reflect the reality I have created.

That is why people can rp without knowing it. To them it might not even be rp but it is rp regardless of whether they are doing it actively or not. People should be able to just walk over and actively participate without throwing off the whole balance of your rp. I could go into hundreds of examples but I won’t bore you. lol

[ejnomad07]

Haha, the me on the forums has no connection to the me in a game. I keep all my names the same in all forums that it is easier to find what I said for which game at what time. (I like order) And I think you can RP on accident I do it all the time when I play games. It's like with acting if you are truly convincing you can pull others along with you and that is what good rping should be. People should know that they are rping or not. When fully immersed in a game you should not be thinking about ah that dude is this this this, so I need to do this this this. If someone talks to me in a fatherly tone I react accordingly and respond in a respectful and more awe-like manner, or if it is my personality I might rebel against it and call them an old man and tell them to shove off.

It's actions reactions. Even if the person isn't trying to you can get anyone to rp with you if you know how to do it good. I personally will be playing with my sister therefore I will treat her as my sister. And because I treat her as my sister people will naturally think of her as my sister without me having to say so. The way I talk to her and the way others talk to me about her will accurately reflect the reality I have created.

That is why people can rp without knowing it. To them it might not even be rp but it is rp regardless of whether they are doing it actively or not. People should be able to just walk over and actively participate without throwing off the whole balance of your rp. I could go into hundreds of examples but I won’t bore you. lol

I understand exactly what you're saying, even the forum account part I happen do the same. I would like to remind you that you're also in the frame of reference to RP. You want to RP and will readily do so when pressed upon you. Players who are here to kill or just play the game only meeting people when they require aid are not going to give you time to chat or openly RP as you want to do so. They will either kill you, then loot you and finally move on without a word or insist the chatter stop and work on the problem at hand they needed help with.

You're also going to be dealing with a lot of Vent/Teamspeak players than ever or those used to it. It's really killed the tolerance of people for in-game chat. Most players would rather focus their fingers on their skills/movement keys and not on talking.

Good to hear you're playing with your sister. It's always better to play an MMO with a readily available group member. :D

[maskedtears]

I understand exactly what you're saying, even the forum account part I happen do the same. I would like to remind you that you're also in the frame of reference to RP. You want to RP and will readily do so when pressed upon you. Players who are here to kill or just play the game only meeting people when they require aid are not going to give you time to chat or openly RP as you want to do so. They will either kill you, then loot you and finally move on without a word or insist the chatter stop and work on the problem at hand they needed help with.

You're also going to be dealing with a lot of Vent/Teamspeak players than ever or those used to it. It's really killed the tolerance of people for in-game chat. Most players would rather focus their fingers on their skills/movement keys and not on talking.

Good to hear you're playing with your sister. It's always better to play an MMO with a readily available group member. :D

Good point, but in those cases it's still realistic. You don't always need to talk to role-play. If someone comes to randomly attack me I just label them as a mass killer. A good rper should be able to adjust to the situation and find a way to make it fit. In real life people are just going about their business when they suddenly get mugged. It happens therefore in an rp it will happen. And by it happening this way it is way more realistic than having your 'friend/fellow rper' waltz up and say, "Draw yer sword, or I shall vanquish you!" See what I'm saying? And with certain races talking is more important like for elves they like to talk rather than fight. Humans argue. Orcs...talk with their fists, Alfar are silent and deadly and Mahirims(sp?)... No clue. The point is if something small like that gets to you then the person rping needs to work on their skills because if someone is attacking you, you can use body language to pull them into your role-play. Regardless of whether you run, fight, or try talking it out it is still immersing the person into the world you are living in. If it's really hard for a person to do this then maybe they are role-playing the wrong kind of player and should be one more like themselves?

[ejnomad07]

Good point, but in those cases it's still realistic. You don't always need to talk to role-play. If someone comes to randomly attack me I just label them as a mass killer. A good rper should be able to adjust to the situation and find a way to make it fit. In real life people are just going about their business when they suddenly get mugged. It happens therefore in an rp it will happen. And by it happening this way it is way more realistic than having your 'friend/fellow rper' waltz up and say, "Draw yer sword, or I shall vanquish you!" See what I'm saying? And with certain races talking is more important like for elves they like to talk rather than fight. Humans argue. Orcs...talk with their fists, Alfar are silent and deadly and Mahirims(sp?)... No clue. The point is if something small like that gets to you then the person rping needs to work on their skills because if someone is attacking you, you can use body language to pull them into your role-play. Regardless of whether you run, fight, or try talking it out it is still immersing the person into the world you are living in. If it's really hard for a person to do this then maybe they are role-playing the wrong kind of player and should be one more like themselves?

True enough. Most RP'ers can make the situation fit into their role, but that's not what's being asked by the OP nor what I thought you were getting at with your first post I responded to. The RP'ers will RP no matter what happens as they can work it in this much we can agree on (unless of course "Ipawnyou" kills you all day that's a RP problem).

What I am getting at is the community is going to have a problem with those intolerent or unwilling to RP with you. It's not so fun to RP alone. You turning a person that wishes not to roleplay into a mass murderer to fit does not make that person part of the RP community. Without your sister to RP with you as most others do not have the benefit of. How many people can you pretend are Role-Playing before it becomes a chore or strains the role you play to the point you can no longer immerse yourself? That's the strain hitting the RP community. It's also one the main reasons RP servers are created in most MMO's to counteract this. It will take an extraordinary community to pull together in hostile conditions like Darkfall.

I am not so sure there is enough of what it takes to do that.

[I_Zodiac_I]

I was thinking i should name my char "Ipwnurmamalulz" anyone else feels the same?


LOL


`Zodiac.

[ejnomad07]

I was thinking i should name my char "Ipwnurmamalulz" anyone else feels the same?


LOL


`Zodiac.

Need I say more maskedtears?

[maskedtears]

Need I say more maskedtears?

Well the fact that we can fight back helps the RP situation a lot. :) Though I usually don't choose to get involved with others squabbles I would have no problem being a little police officer. :D If we help each other out and not just the people we rp with then it will be better.

[ejnomad07]

Well the fact that we can fight back helps the RP situation a lot. :) Though I usually don't choose to get involved with others squabbles I would have no problem being a little police officer. :D If we help each other out and not just the people we rp with then it will be better.

You have such an optimistic outlook. I don't dare ruin it.

[maskedtears]

You have such an optimistic outlook. I don't dare ruin it.

Oh I'm not being optimistic. I'm saying if we can't work with each other why would a non-rper want to work to make it better?

[animalmom]

"The lack of RP kills MMO's for me. I play eq2 currently, but I will be switching as soon as this game is released. I hope the role-playing is heavy. "

It won't be for 99 percent of the players - although you can role play someone who kills people who 'speak funny'

You will be disappointed if you expect people to role play to you. Just do your own thing and don't compromise.

I would say this - most people will mock RPrs but some of the most respected players on AC-1 DT and certainly some of the most well remembered were roleplayers:

Og
The Silent Spearman
Son of Boar Child

All those guys were competent PvPrs too. Who remembers the 20,000th xp chain grief mage twink? Not me.

The best part about lootable no rules FFA is that roleplaying is more than how you talk (hail fellow) it's how you ACT.

COA guys didn't speak in Elizabethan English but they had the "rules for Sowato" that you had to follow or they would fight you.

DF will give you a big opportunity that never occurs in RVR or no Loot FFA to build a reputation which is in part roleplaying.

Are you a random PK Exploiter?
Are you an Honor PK who establishes boundries and sticks to them
Are you an Anti-PKr who tries to help people?

Your reputation can last years in a game like this and follow you from game to game.

Remember before you waste some noob for no reason - what kind of character do you want to be? Als remember - it's easiest to just kill anyone anytime.

[ejnomad07]

Oh I'm not being optimistic. I'm saying if we can't work with each other why would a non-rper want to work to make it better?

A non-rper will never work to make your community better. If they did they would not be non-rper. I see your conversion rate as very low. The fast paced FPS action of this game you're as much as asking players to role-play in Call of Duty 4.

Yes, you are optimistic. Don't fight me on this one as it's subjective.



I would say this - most people will mock RPrs.

This is a point I do not mention but should have. RP'ers haved faced an every increasing astigmatism.

[maskedtears]

A non-rper will never work to make your community better. If they did they would not be non-rper. I see your conversion rate as very low. The fast paced FPS action of this game you're as much as asking players to role-play in Call of Duty 4.

Yes, you are optimistic. Don't fight me on this one as it's subjective.



This is a point I do not mention but should have. RP'ers haved faced an every increasing astigmatism.

That's not what I said. A non-rper can make it easier to roleplay if they work with us. They can either make it a living hell to role-play or an easy experience to deal with. That is my point. When I play COD4 I am Soap so I dunno what you are talking about. I cry ever time at the end without fail.

I'm not optimistic I'm just willing to move on and not get upset over things that can't be changed. It's easy for me to adapt to situations when I rp simple as that. Therefore someone trying to kill me doesn't bother me very much.

[ejnomad07]

That's not what I said. A non-rper can make it easier to roleplay if they work with us. They can either make it a living hell to role-play or an easy experience to deal with. That is my point. When I play COD4 I am Soap so I dunno what you are talking about. I cry ever time at the end without fail.

That is what you're saying. Working with you would be engaging in RP. That's becoming a RP'er something I doubt you will see much of. I have been suggesting. You are going to face a lot more of those giving you hell than those willing to help. As to you crying playing COD4. If I were you and it effected me that much I would stop playing. As I am no masochist.


I'm not optimistic I'm just willing to move on and not get upset over things that can't be changed. It's easy for me to adapt to situations when I rp simple as that. Therefore someone trying to kill me doesn't bother me very much.

This is perfect optimistic rational.

[maskedtears]

That is what you're saying. Working with you would be engaging in RP. That's becoming a RP'er something I doubt you will see much of. I have been suggesting. You are going to face a lot more of those giving you hell than those willing to help. As to you crying playing COD4. If I were you and it effected me that much I would stop playing. As I am no masochist.



This is perfect optimistic rational.

The way most people view RPers means that the person has to acknowledge that is what they are. So even if they engage they technically aren't an rper or atleast not on the same level as the ones initiating the behavior. Specially since they don't know they are rping. I am not a masochist. :(

And I'm just optomistic right now. How I act and how I think and feel are two different things. :)

[ejnomad07]

The way most people view RPers means that the person has to acknowledge that is what they are. So even if they engage they technically aren't an rper or atleast not on the same level as the ones initiating the behavior. Specially since they don't know they are rping. I am not a masochist. :(

If I recognize you as an Role-player. Did you suddenly just now become one or did I? If I choose to accept you as one or not. That still does not effect my actions. If I do not want to roleplay I can treat you just the same even if I recognize you as one. I could go as far as to say I may treat you worse than a regular player if I were to recognize you as one.
And I'm just optomistic right now. How I act and how I think and feel are two different things. :)

Are you suggesting you take actions that are against what you think and feel? That is a little worrisome.

[maskedtears]

If I recognize you as an Role-player. Did you suddenly just now become one or did I? If I choose to accept you as one or not. That still does not effect my actions. If I do not want to roleplay I can treat you just the same even if I recognize you as one. I could go as far as to say I may treat you worse than a regular player if I were to recognize you as one.

True but saying that I'm a roleplayer doesn't make me a roleplayer does it? So someone saying they aren't a roleplayer isn't valid either? Why you do what you do makes you who you are as a whole, not single acts. Which is why I think the way I do in regards to this situation. But that is how it works out to me, everyone views these things differently because there is no solid rule all the way across the board.


Are you suggesting you take actions that are against what you think and feel? That is a little worrisome.

I do. Humans by nature feel and think things that are inappropriate at the time and it's because we are human that we use our better judgement and not act on these things 100% of the time.

[ejnomad07]

True but saying that I'm a roleplayer doesn't make me a roleplayer does it? So someone saying they aren't a roleplayer isn't valid either? Why you do what you do makes you who you are as a whole, not single acts. Which is why I think the way I do in regards to this situation. But that is how it works out to me, everyone views these things differently because there is no solid rule all the way across the board.


Then how can you justify someone recognizing you as a role-player is helping the RP community grow? They will act towards you the same. If I intend not to not RP then the deed is I won't RP. This does not help your community grow.


I do. Humans by nature feel and think things that are inappropriate at the time and it's because we are human that we use our better judgement and not act on these things 100% of the time.

You're enjoying arguing with me aren't you? Judgement is making a decision on how you feel or think about an issue. You thought and felt it would be wrong to do that inappropriate act and you acted on it. You did not go against yourself so much as you think.

[maskedtears]

Then how can you justify someone recognizing you as a role-player is helping the RP community grow? They will act towards you the same. If I intend not to not RP then the deed is I won't RP. This does not help your community grow.

I didn't say them recognizing me as a role-player helped the community. I said that people who aren't rp-ers being tolerant would. And you said that those non-rpers are then made into rpers by the fact that they went along with it.




You're enjoying arguing with me aren't you? Judgement is making a decision on how you feel or think about an issue. You thought and felt it would be wrong to do that inappropriate act and you acted on it. You did not go against yourself so much as you think.

I'm not. You are arguing with me. We never even mentioned judgement previously you just said that me acting differently from how I think is feel is weird. And based on judgement is making a decision based on that but also thinking about the situation you are in. Therefore it is completely different. I never said that I didn't act on these feelings but I don't act in agreement to these feelings and you said that that isn't normal. Which it is a common occurance according to everything you just said. See... so you were arguing with me based on what you assumed is the answer or how I feel. Which was my point to begin with.

[ejnomad07]

I didn't say them recognizing me as a role-player helped the community. I said that people who aren't rp-ers being tolerant would. And you said that those non-rpers are then made into rpers by the fact that they went along with it.


No I was saying them being tolerant of you does not make them RP'ers and does not help the community grow. I had assumed your post was suggesting they would be of some aid to you not that those taking the path of complete apathy would help your RP. There is a difference.


I'm not. You are arguing with me. We never even mentioned judgement previously you just said that me acting differently from how I think is feel is weird. And based on judgement is making a decision based on that but also thinking about the situation you are in. Therefore it is completely different. I never said that I didn't act on these feelings but I don't act in agreement to these feelings and you said that that isn't normal. Which it is a common occurance according to everything you just said. See... so you were arguing with me based on what you assumed is the answer or how I feel. Which was my point to begin with.

Perhaps I am the one arguing with you as you did post first, but it is so rare to find someone who argues a point without resorting to troll tactics. It's rather admirable. You mentioned judgement. You used the word it has been mentioned before. I stand by what I said. It's not something someone normally does to go against what they believe is right.

[Nevi M'Or]

Why do player-killers who are only into PvP speak some much l33t?

Using leet-speak every once in a while isn't a bad thing. Its just certain people go overboard with it. You tend to find that PKers use leet more than any other type of player. Even people that PvP duel most of the time don't use it that much. Just PKers that love killing noobs.

[Qig'dak]

Dear Darkfall Community,
For the past several years I have been looking for a game where a mature level of RP takes place.
Lately I have noticed a trend in MMORPGs where the player-base becomes increasingly hostile and intolerant to the concept of RP: 'It's for noobs! Go play SIMS if you want to RP lol!' and other similar answers usually await the eager RPer.
I would like to know if anyone thinks RP should be 'enforced' in Darkfall or should the community take care of it itself? I used to play Neverwinter Nights where moderators could kick you off a server for disrupting RP to playing on an RP realm in World of Warcraft, where, despite the RP tag, you would regularly come across names like Britishrouge, Ikillyoulol, Ipwnurmama etc.
I have often wondered why certain people play in an immersive virtual world only to 'break' the immersion by using leet language and referring to real-life current affairs.
Does anyone know Aventurine's stance with regards to RP and leet-talk?

Personally i dont mind non RPers. Then again i roll with the BC orcs and we deal with Griefers all the time. Infact i think they are more fun to play with because they never really win and we can dry loot them :)

[Darke Twilight]

It really boils down to this. Some people enjoy RP in what ever form suites them. Others don't. The original intent behind the RP server was to give people who enjoy it a place to go for them to RP without causing issues for those people just there to play the game. You can also look at it as a place for them to go to escape those just wanting to play the game from breaking the RP. Now with this in mind, if a game offers a RP server hell yes it should be enforced. Any one on the server who doesn't RP shouldn't be there. If they can avoid RP without being a griefer and breaking the atmosphere then they aren't an issue. If they are there to cause Greif and ruin the atmosphere then they are breaking the AUP agreement for most games by harassing players. Its a server specifically set aside for the RP community after all. And in most games there is a good deal less RP servers than non RP ones.

On the flip side of the coin, say they choose no RP server. Then no, enforcing it will drive away players. They are making this game for the players, all the players. Not for themselves or for one faction or another of players (Atleast thats what I like to believe being in college for making games). And as such they can't favor one group over another in a general server.

If its a basic server style then us RPers are left to fend for ourselves. Considering the fact that its open PVP I don't see it as much of a problem.

A bit ago someone mentioned Vent and such being an issue with RPing and part of its decline. I don't really agree with that. During my time in WoW my guild was an RP one, and we had 2 major types of events. RP where we would focus our time out in the cities or world and socially interacting and then non RP events such as Instant grinding for items. Personally I never liked it, grinding anything for just about any reason is breaking from the ideal of RP. But it worked smoothly. Now from what I gather of DarkFall using Vent wont hinder RP groups at all. Personally, when my character is out side a city where critters or other players are likely to attack at any second, I don't talk much openly. In every game I have played in those times are most often BSing with my hunting friends in tells or whispers while we hunt. Look at it from an RP stand point and you have a group of close companions in the wilds staying quiet as they stalk their prey. And in actual combat being free to talk in a fight bugged me because I wouldn't be chit chatting freely as I lashed out with blade in hand. I'd be focused on my enemy and avoiding loosing my head.

Keep in mind, while I love MMO's in general the greatest RP experience I've had was from a MUD. This MUD was set up very much like Darkfall sounds to be. No auto attack, no restricted PVP areas (Though killing someone in the city would bring the guards down on you pretty fast). You had to type in the attack, ability, spell, or any other command by hand.

[Valfrekr]

I think people have forgotten that an MMORPG, is first and foremost an RPG. That being said, I find that what turns me off with a lot of MMOs is that 1)the leveling system, and level caps. The only rpg out on the market that doesn't have them is Eve Online. DF reminds me a lot of that game when it comes to class, skill points, and permanent loss. 2)the kids who come to the RP servers, and ruin it for the other players. 3) (And this one is a major pet peeve with me) Nerfing! I hate nerfing! I think that the developers should create a class, test it for balancing issues, and release it to the population. They should let the classes evolve naturally and make sure everyone is fairly equal to everyone else. Anyway, enough of my ramblings. I hope that these guys can deliver what they are promising. I wonder if there are going to be multiple servers, or just one big server like eve.

[Chiba]

I'm not really a roleplayer myself. But I will agree that there are a lot of things that happen in MMOs today that aren't just non-roleplay they are really the antithesis of it. People running around on toons named "Ipwnnoobs" or "Madddeeps" bother me a lot. To me its just counter intuitive. I really have to believe that the core of MMO players enjoy the roleplay element to a certain extent. MMOs are fantasy worlds with limited nack stories that simply point you in the right direction for roleplay and a community really isn't worth being apart of if it completely ignores those elements of the game.

[5Elements]

Woa is that Nocturne from Angel Island?
I was starting to think RP was dying out from most mmo's now I am convinced Darkfall will have some good rp elements from the players just seeing an old RP'r like you around.

[Lilalu]

Lately I have noticed a trend in MMORPGs where the player-base becomes increasingly hostile and intolerant to the concept of RP: 'It's for noobs! Go play SIMS if you want to RP lol!' and other similar answers usually await the eager RPer.


Yes, I have noticed this too. I think, many people just are to stupid to RP and that´s why they hate RPers, who are "elitists" in their eyes. RP is not difficult, but most people, who hate RPers, do not understand the concept of roleplaying at all. They hate us, because they know, they are to stupid to do, what we do :D. By just watching us, they become aware of their own inability and this feeling they don´t like :D.

I usually don´t play MMORPGs any more. I play Neverwinter Nights 2, where the staff does not allow such people on the server. I think RP should be enforced on RP-Servers in MMOs also. It´s great fun to RP, but only if you are not constantly disrupted by those idiots.

NOTE: Excuse my English, it´s not my native language and also not the one I usually use to roleplay. And with idiots I don´t refer to Non-RPers but to Anti-RPers, who activly disrupt RP events and things like this.

[Trezzden]

Hi guys.
Im not really a 'roleplayer', I basically treat my characters as an avatar. Im not into craeting a ficticious past for him, cos im all about the now (how about, he has amnesia and cannot recall a thing). I like to be me, in another world. And this works fine coz I treat people the same as in real life. Although I do try to keep the real world out of the game world (but im a human, and every now and then I might ask hows the weather in California). I will probably try harder in Darkfall, this is the first orpg I am going to get to join in from the start instead of four or five years after release. So I want to be part of creating a story, even if one day it finishes and is never heard of again.
Detested is the so called l33t speak (my fingers get sick just typing it). When I start my character, he will treat 'Leetspeak' as some sort of incurable disease and the sufferers people to be pittied (of course if they insist on following me there is a chance I could become infected so I'd just HAVE to kill them). This scenario would work even better on a rp world.
Too many people have the idea that roleplaying is sitting around at the tavern making up a story filled with thees thines and all ye other goode olde world wyrds. Thats all well and good for them, but I would hate to have it forced because for me to speak like that would be utterly ridiculous and would, for me, destroy emersion. Even if roleplaying, i will speak naturally, tho I WILL abreviate, my character has no time for typing.

My hopes for Darkfall are about the freedom. Feel free to roleplay, or not.
Feel free to mock and scorn and scream "ZOMFGZ U 2tly SUXAZZZZ n0000bzzzzz!@!@!@!!!" and then feel free to let me heal you of your terrible, terrible affliction.

[nikomof]

earlier i read that kids is the problem and i kinda have to protest against that i am 17 years old and i too hate immature "kid" ruining the fun for others but to generalize all kids as immature is imo wrong

Sry for the lack of perfect grammar but we cant all live in usa/uk/aus

[Zylo]

It's not the playerbase IMO that ruins RP, it's the games. No game (For a long long time, from UO to DF :P) has offered what's really needed for RP to meet a good standard; A world you can influence. Building RP around a static game is never going to be much good. Sure, you can RP you've done this and that, but noone will know after a short while, except those attending the event. What's needed to create a good persistent RP community is the ability to influence the world around you, not just the people in it.

Edit: And also, with DF you won't have to worry about non-RP'ers ruining your game. Sure, they might spam l33t crap, but everything they do can be seen as IC, not just as an irritating break in your RP. If you get attacked, and your city burns down, you have to relate to that one way or another, not like the themepark games where razing a city has no effect 20 minutes later when everything has respawned.

[Ugjer]

Or when ImportantLoreCharacterX has been killed by everyone because the devs turned him into a low-level boss.

[belthize]

I guess I have a different view of RP than a lot of RP'ers. When I see a
game I intend to play, then while I wait I let a character sort of ferment. I
think about the things I want to do in the game and things I don't. Once
that gels I may or may not create a backstory, it depends on whether it's
germane to the character. If they have a driving goal that's orthogonal to
the game I'm more likely to create one. If they'll just be toodling along with
the crowd probably not.

Once in game, RP to me is basically merely a function of doing those things
I planned to do and when conflicting events arise either consciously deciding
to not do them or allowing them to change the character. I never do
something that is simply 'out of character'.

These are internal, there are no external cues this is happening. It
seems a lot of RPers feel the need to project their character. They're
constantly referring to a backstory or explaining their motives. In RL we
roleplay everyday but never do that. If 4 people walk up in real life and say
'Hey we're going to go out and kick 5 kinds of shit out of the first person we
see want to join' you don't say 'No and then explain for hours how that's out
of your nature etc'(well some people might) . You say 'WTF's wrong with
you, no I don't want go'. No explanation necessary.

As far as leet speak I just view it as slang, no different than 'word',
'fo'shizzle', 'jiggy' etc in day to day talk now. It's not out of character
for others to use it, just not language I use (though I do occasionally to
annoy my kids and do in game when it's warranted).

As far as 'killerdoodz123' type names, I'd rather not see them but it's
easy enough to just decide it's a foreign name and move on. I probably
won't interact a lot with that person anyway.

The only actions that really smack of non-RP are talking about things
outside of the game in non-OOC channels. If folks just did that then
being 'in character' is my problem. I can never see them be 'out of character'
because who they say they are isn't necessarily who they are, just like
in real life.

So to the original OP, I see problems on both sides. There's the video
game crowd but I can fold them into my world view and the 'projecting RP
crowd'. Those are the two groups that really hate each other. Unless
they were really paying attention neither group would be consciously aware
I was even RP'ing. And how could they.

Thorsen Belthize

[Treyguard]

The only MMO I've played in the last few years which managed to have significant amounts of real, sustained and relevant RP in it is EVE. Mainly because of the sandbox nature, allowing you to actually do what you want to RP (or people to point out you are not the greatest warrior the world has ever seen if you're a 2month academy graduate sitting amidst the wreck of his first ship ;) )