Name ONE good thing accomplished by organized religion-

[NapalmEnema]

<crickets chirping>

I got nothing... anyone else? :confused:

[Lethn]

*glances as tumbleweed rolls by and pauses midstep as he chases after it* Hoot?

[Erroneous]

The Judeo-Christian Tradition as exemplified by the rule of law in Western Society.

[PrimalSign]

I like the literature.

[Baralis]

Some rather architecturaly pleasent structures around the world.

[NapalmEnema]

Some rather architecturaly pleasent structures around the world.

Wonder what the native inhabitants had in place before being 'purged as heathens'.

Do you have any idea how much history we have lost in the name of religion? It's staggering.

But yes, they make nice buildings. (with secret rooms for the naughty choir boys :ohno: )

[jonyak]

human society.

[inox]

The Judeo-Christian Tradition as exemplified by the rule of law in Western Society.

What, because atheists don't have morals? Most of those rules were already sort of in place (maybe not by law, but at least by custom) and those that weren't were mostly stupid.

[Killuminati]

stuff, you never heard about...cuz its a sekret.

[Matriel]

stuff, you never heard about...cuz its a sekret.

Just like government!

[jonyak]

Just like government!

I thought you were dead!!

[Spades911]

Unification.. a big reason why we aren't living in shit of the medieval ages is that the catholic church unified europe so that they would stop invading each other.

Many many many special foundations, missionaries, etc etc.

I'm agnostic, some of you guys are pretty crazy not thinking there is some good that comes out of organized religion.

[paade]

Unification.. a big reason why we aren't living in shit of the medieval ages is that the catholic church unified europe so that they would stop invading each other.

Many many many special foundations, missionaries, etc etc.

I'm agnostic, some of you guys are pretty crazy not thinking there is some good that comes out of organized religion.

catholic church brought peace to Europe?

Ill let you think about that for a moment before i flame you to hell.

[jonyak]

Unification.. a big reason why we aren't living in shit of the medieval ages is that the catholic church unified europe so that they would stop invading each other.

Many many many special foundations, missionaries, etc etc.

I'm agnostic, some of you guys are pretty crazy not thinking there is some good that comes out of organized religion.

not to mention most of the actual knowledge that surived the dark ages was kept by the church.

[Erroneous]

What, because atheists don't have morals? Most of those rules were already sort of in place (maybe not by law, but at least by custom) and those that weren't were mostly stupid.

I don't think there is anything divine about this set of shared morals, but the fact is that organized religion instilled them in us and the fact that almost everyone in western culture agrees on them makes our society work.

[Stendarr]

It's a matter of perspective.

For the various leaders in history: control of the people.

[Mons]

Budism did some good stuff i guess..

[Hypseos]

Vows of celibacy.

It stops fuckwits that will believe any old crap from breeding.

[Atua]

Unleavened bread.

[DocGonzo]

The Judeo-Christian Tradition as exemplified by the rule of law in Western Society.

actually you can thank the Greeks for what you are considering the "western rule of law"

or had you forgotten how nifty it was during the Dark Ages when the church was in charge of everything? you know trial by combat because the Lord would grant strength to the righteous? :lmao:

the epitome of their judicial system was the fucking Inquisition, not to mention all that fun simony, where you could just buy your way out of a charge and gain god's forgiveness at the same time! :eek:

our very concept of a rule of Law rather than of men is completely secular, don't let anyone bullshit you differently

[Matriel]

I thought you were dead!!

3,624.3 miles later I am still alive and still hate government. :)

[Skree]

not to mention most of the actual knowledge that surived the dark ages was kept by the church.:lmao:

Skree

[Toilet]

not to mention most of the actual knowledge that surived the dark ages was kept by the church.

No, that was kept by the muslims.

Then brought to Europe again.

Fool.

[DocGonzo]

No, that was kept by the muslims.

Then brought to Europe again.

Fool.

actually is was Muslims, Jews and Greeks...that knowledge of the old masters was restored to the West in the Spanish city of Toledo

but i digress...

[Lictor]

Some paintings, sculptures, architecture... art in general. Nothing else.

[Forgivance]

Globally, me thinks of nothing.

Individually, many people have found a since of "peace" and shit. People have turned from crime and drugs and instead turn to their "lord".

Organized Religeon also donates (many of them) to charities that help people all over the world.

[Jimzs70]

Christian Rock.

[Forgin]

Yeah we should really thank the church for keeping knowledge from the dark ages. especially since they destroyed all the knowledge from the Roman empire.

Society started to get out of the dark ages when the church lost power and more power came to the people.

[surGeonFFS]

Unification.. a big reason why we aren't living in shit of the medieval ages is that the catholic church unified europe so that they would stop invading each other.

Many many many special foundations, missionaries, etc etc.

I'm agnostic, some of you guys are pretty crazy not thinking there is some good that comes out of organized religion.

Oh yes, them good ol' peaceful dark ages. Good times.

[Spades911]

catholic church brought peace to Europe?

Ill let you think about that for a moment before i flame you to hell.

According to my history courses the church help bring unification, it stopped catholic nations from invading other catholic invasions in fear of excommunication.

A good example of how that DIDN'T happen is Africa.

BTW im agnostic, I don't believe i'll be going to hell if you flame me, I also have "truth" and "reality" on my side, not some fanatical atheist who wants to blame the world on religion.

[cosimo84]

-Feeding starving people
-Sheltering homeless people
-Curing sick and dying people
-Greatly increasing the quality of life for people
-Giving people who need something to believe in, something to believe in
-Helping people to (in addition to following traditions that you may or may not agree with) live better lives morally.



Religion comes with good and bad, life isn't black and white, grow up kid.

[jonyak]

No, that was kept by the muslims.

Then brought to Europe again.

Fool.

I never said which church kept it.

this thread was also not about christianity.. but organised religion.

Learn to read.

fool.

[Erroneous]

actually you can thank the Greeks for what you are considering the "western rule of law"

or had you forgotten how nifty it was during the Dark Ages when the church was in charge of everything? you know trial by combat because the Lord would grant strength to the righteous? :lmao:

the epitome of their judicial system was the fucking Inquisition, not to mention all that fun simony, where you could just buy your way out of a charge and gain god's forgiveness at the same time! :eek:

our very concept of a rule of Law rather than of men is completely secular, don't let anyone bullshit you differently

Again I don't think its the morals themselves that are all that great, so I could care less about their source. It is the fact that the organized religion MADE us all agree on the same set that has allowed society to prosper, and yes it took a number of good beatings to make this all work out.

Me personally I could never buy into organized religion and would consider myself a moral realtivist, but you have to recognize that we wouldn't be where we are today if the Church didn't force everyone onto the same ethical page.

[Forgin]

-Feeding starving people
-Sheltering homeless people
-Curing sick and dying people
-Greatly increasing the quality of life for people
-Giving people who need something to believe in, something to believe in
-Helping people to (in addition to following traditions that you may or may not agree with) live moral lives.

sorry you said 1 didn't you

so they fuck natural selection?
curing dying people? with miracles lol?
increasing the quality of life? by taking away their possesions and putting them in churches to do boring stuff?
Giving retard a reason to live, great...

[Hypseos]

but you have to recognize that we wouldn't be where we are today if the Church didn't force everyone onto the same ethical page.

There’s a little book called The Republic you should be able to get in any library. It was written 300 years before Christ and comes to the same conclusions on morality as Christianity but through reason and discussion rather than the word of a prophet.

Its worth reading just the first few chapters to see that people basically all agreed to the same morals as us without the church forcing it on them.

[inox]

I don't think there is anything divine about this set of shared morals, but the fact is that organized religion instilled them in us and the fact that almost everyone in western culture agrees on them makes our society work.

Religion, organized or not, did not instill them in us, our instincts and intelligence did. For example, the Vikings had codes for how to live a while before they converted to christianity, and AFAIK, their religion was not organized. Those rules invented by Judaism/Christianity are just stupid, and those they didn't invent are taken from other cultures, and natural instincts and intelligence. I think.

[cosimo84]

so they fuck natural selection?Yeah it's better to let people starve when you have the means to help them.

curing dying people? with miracles lol? it's called medicine. Church groups get together to bring medical aid to people who can't afford it in their own country and others all the time.

increasing the quality of life? by taking away their possesions and putting them in churches to do boring stuff? By helping them in many ways, whether it be financially, giving charity, and always being there to listen to your problems no matter how bad they are, and helping direct you in bettering yourself

Giving retard a reason to live, great... Yeah people who aren't like you don't deserve to live. You have so much wisdom.

[Feyrband]

Diablo 2

[Dhig]

-Feeding starving people
-Sheltering homeless people
-Curing sick and dying people
-Greatly increasing the quality of life for people
-Giving people who need something to believe in, something to believe in
-Helping people to (in addition to following traditions that you may or may not agree with) live better lives morally.



Religion comes with good and bad, life isn't black and white, grow up kid.

These things you mentioned would have been done out of humanity, not religion.
Religion has been working against science for humanity so your point of curing the sick and dying is not true.
Religion did not come up with morale, people did.

So, no, I cant come up with one thing that religion have accomplished.

[Attau]

Because without religion we'd have had a lot more "worship" being directed at insane fucks like obama.

CHANGE!

[NapalmEnema]

not to mention most of the actual knowledge that surived the dark ages was kept by the church.

They selectively kept what they wanted to keep, have you any idea how much damage the church has done to history in terms of knowledge? They've almost obliterated some entire civilizations from the map in terms of kept and passed on knowledge in the name of Jebus.

[NapalmEnema]

Globally, me thinks of nothing.

Individually, many people have found a since of "peace" and shit. People have turned from crime and drugs and instead turn to their "lord".

Organized Religeon also donates (many of them) to charities that help people all over the world.

You mean a teeny tiny itty bitty fraction of organized religion gives to charities that help people around the world.

Most organized religion keep their money to build bigger and better brain washing machines. If churches actually came together to help people with what they should be using their ill gotten money for, there would be a shit-ton less poverty in the world.

[surGeonFFS]

According to my history courses the church help bring unification, it stopped catholic nations from invading other catholic invasions in fear of excommunication.

A good example of how that DIDN'T happen is Africa.

BTW im agnostic, I don't believe i'll be going to hell if you flame me, I also have "truth" and "reality" on my side, not some fanatical atheist who wants to blame the world on religion.

1. Lack of unification trough religion is not the problem in Africa. Religious tension is however. This was also the case in Europe to a large degree before Christianity took over (which is why it got better when they did). It also got better because we hit THE FUCKING DARK AGES. The catholic nations were too busy fighting the heathens.
2. Lol at comparing Europe to Africa, did they teach you to do that in history class too? One of the dumbest arguments I've heard.

[Lethn]

Religion, organized or not, did not instill them in us, our instincts and intelligence did. For example, the Vikings had codes for how to live a while before they converted to christianity, and AFAIK, their religion was not organized. Those rules invented by Judaism/Christianity are just stupid, and those they didn't invent are taken from other cultures, and natural instincts and intelligence. I think.

That's actually true, the Japanese followed Buddhism LONG before the Christians ever even came into contact with their culture and it wasn't organized in the sense that it was a huge organization but there were many temples spread over the country devoted to the same religion.

[Zornath]

Quite of a bit of the greatest music ever composed was either commissioned by churches (ie. the Bach Cantatas) or inspired by religion (Beethoven's Opus 132 string quartet, movement 3, in my opinion the most sublime piece of string quartet writing). Frankly, as far as religion goes, that's all I really care about - the music. Oh, and stained glass windows are really nice. And churches DO have awesome acoustics.

[cosimo84]

These things you mentioned would have been done out of humanity, not religion.
Religion has been working against science for humanity so your point of curing the sick and dying is not true.
Religion did not come up with morale, people did.

So, no, I cant come up with one thing that religion have accomplished.

You can always argue that religion does nothing and that only people do this. That's because religion isn't a person, it's a belief.

If this common belief(religion) helps unite people to do these things, then religion just did something good.

And what do you call missions that have people that literally...go...and...cure...sick people?

i call it you being narrow minded and only looking at things from the angle you feel comfortable because it's a lot easier to criticize.

Speaking of which, you guys have made this too easy to defend, and I don't feel like teaching toddlers.

The OP said name one good thing it does, not "prove to me that it never does anything bad."

The thread fails.

[BloodFletcher]

Crusades :o

[jonyak]

They selectively kept what they wanted to keep, have you any idea how much damage the church has done to history in terms of knowledge? They've almost obliterated some entire civilizations from the map in terms of kept and passed on knowledge in the name of Jebus.

I know quite well the harm they have done.

oh and this is about religion, not christianity.

[NapalmEnema]

You can always argue that religion does nothing and that only people do this. That's because religion isn't a person, it's a belief.

If this common belief(religion) helps unite people to do these things, then religion just did something good.

And what do you call missions that have people that literally...go...and...cure...sick people?

i call it you being narrow minded and only looking at things from the angle you feel comfortable because it's a lot easier to criticize.

Speaking of which, you guys have made this too easy to defend, and I don't feel like teaching toddlers.

The thread fails.

Organized religion has done far more harm than good in the entire history of civilization.

Agree / disagree?

[surGeonFFS]

Quite of a bit of the greatest music ever composed was either commissioned by churches (ie. the Bach Cantatas) or inspired by religion (Beethoven's Opus 132 string quartet, movement 3, in my opinion the most sublime piece of string quartet writing). Frankly, as far as religion goes, that's all I really care about - the music. Oh, and stained glass windows are really nice. And churches DO have awesome acoustics.

This I can agree with.

[Apex Vertigo]

The Crusades are a good example of how moral the Church has been and how much they have contributed to our Western moral society.

By the way, every time someone says Religion created/instilled/organized morality, a woman is burned on a stake.

[Suitepee]

A way to teach morals to young children via "concrete" examples from religious lore.

[Atua]

This I can agree with.

Yes, more concerts need to be held in churches. Church acoustics are fantastic.

[cosimo84]

Organized religion has done far more harm than good in the entire history of civilization.

Agree / disagree?

i don't know to be honest.

I'm Agnostic, and in my personal experience religion can be good though. And I think it's wrong to show people disrespect because of their beliefs. Ignorance on the other hand, i have no respect for.

I was raised catholic and at about 12 I started figuring out it wasn't for me. Partially due to this Irish priest that was head of the parish. Fire and brimstome kinda guy.

But there was another priest, his son had died and divorced his wife and then decided to be a priest. He was very well liked, and a good role model for anyone. He told me I should do what I ultimately think is right when I questioned my beliefs to him.

He was there to help people, religion can be a very good thing. If you look at history and the papacy you'll see a lot of corruption and horrible stuff too.

[BloodFletcher]

You can always argue that religion does nothing and that only people do this. That's because religion isn't a person, it's a belief.

If this common belief(religion) helps unite people to do these things, then religion just did something good.

And what do you call missions that have people that literally...go...and...cure...sick people?

i call it you being narrow minded and only looking at things from the angle you feel comfortable because it's a lot easier to criticize.

Speaking of which, you guys have made this too easy to criticize, and I don't feel like teaching toddlers.

The thread fails.

It has done something, it's prevented the advancement of the human race, pulling them back with false ideology, it's also the source of a great deal of wars, pain and anguish. I'm ofcourse talking of mainstream religions with the exception of budhism, i don't denie the chance of a god, i denie the bible and the form in which christians and other religions carry they're religion and control and indoctrinate they're children into a personnal beleif. Religion spread in the past as a form of faith into the unknowing, yet now we have discovered enough scientific evidence to break down religion.. evolution, germ theory etc. Some people use religion as a way of life and are happyier thanks to it, this is the only good part of religion, but it is simply false to beleive the world is 10,000 years old, and most religion will always bring with it disagreement and violence which is a hypocracy in itself. If religion didn't exist we would be 200 years atleast ahead, rant over.

[Apex Vertigo]

i don't know to be honest.

I'm Agnostic, and in my personal experience religion can be good though. And I think it's wrong to show people disrespect because of their beliefs. Ignorance on the other hand, i have no respect for.

I was raised catholic and at about 12 I started figuring out it wasn't for me. Partially due to this Irish priest that was head of the parish. Fire and brimstome kinda guy.

But there was another priest, his son had died and divorced his wife and then decided to be a priest. He was very well liked, and a good role model for anyone. He told me I should do what I ultimately think is right when I questioned my beliefs to him.

He was there to help people, religion can be a very good thing. If you look at history and the papacy you'll see a lot of corruption and horrible stuff too.

People can be good, that doesn't make religion a good force and personally I don't see any reason why we should respect such believes when they are completely unfounded and extreme in nature.

On the other hand, the ONE good thing I've found in religion is its ability to give people who are in desire circumstances something to blame or base hope on. A soldier in the middle of a shoot out, a person dying of a fatal disease or helping cope with the loss of a child/parent. It helps those who need the temporary relieve from reality.

[The-Nit]

Atheists are the Jehovas Witnesses of the internet....

[jonyak]

Atheists are the Jehovas Witnesses of the internet....

atheist and libertarians...

[Justinian]

<crickets chirping>

I got nothing... anyone else? :confused:

ah, to be 16 years old intellectually again... those were the days...

[Dhig]

You can always argue that religion does nothing and that only people do this. That's because religion isn't a person, it's a belief.


You can always try to argue that religion made people do everything and without it humanity would have been lost.

If this common belief(religion) helps unite people to do these things, then religion just did something good.


It could be anything that unite people to that feel-good to help others.
So the real idea is that people did it with religion as a foundation. Not the other way around.
People have done good things without religion as a foundation aswell and will keep on doing what they feel is right and find others that feel the same way.

And what do you call missions that have people that literally...go...and...cure...sick people?


That is just a misconception aswell. Those people that want to help will do it even without religion as a base. The word you seek is humanity, not religion.

i call it you being narrow minded and only looking at things from the angle you feel comfortable because it's a lot easier to criticize.

Speaking of which, you guys have made this too easy to defend, and I don't feel like teaching toddlers.


So basic is that everything bad that has been done in the name of religion is made by people using religion for their own means.
Then all the good thing that has been done in the name of religion comes from god/s.

Yes I can see the narrow minded bullshit im coming with.

[cosimo84]

It has done something, it's prevented the advancement of the human race, pulling them back with false ideology, it's also the source of a great deal of wars, pain and anguish. I'm ofcourse talking of mainstream religions with the exception of budhism, i don't denie the chance of a god, i denie the bible and the form in which christians and other religions carry they're religion and control and indoctrinate they're children into a personnal beleif. Religion spread in the past as a form of faith into the unknowing, yet now we have discovered enough scientific evidence to break down religion.. evolution, germ theory etc. Some people use religion as a way of life and are happyier thanks to it, this is the only good part of religion, but it is simply false to beleive the world is 10,000 years old, and most religion will always bring with it disagreement and violence which is a hypocracy in itself. If religion didn't exist we would be 200 years atleast ahead, rant over.

Religion doesn't prevent me from doing anything, I don't know about you.

I agree that religion is a powerful thing though.

[Tiarilir]

This thread makes me want to play Medieval 2: Total War again.

[cosimo84]

People can be good, that doesn't make religion a good force and personally I don't see any reason why we should respect such believes when they are completely unfounded and extreme in nature.

On the other hand, the ONE good thing I've found in religion is its ability to give people who are in desire circumstances something to blame or base hope on. A soldier in the middle of a shoot out, a person dying of a fatal disease or helping cope with the loss of a child/parent. It helps those who need the temporary relieve from reality.

OK i don't want to preach anymore. I try very hard to respect everyone's beliefs, it's not easy. I do not respect everyone's actions though, and I realize that actions are very often driven by beliefs.

You can't force change on anyone's beliefs, it is arguably the only thing that we really have absolute control over.

I don't know anyone that shares my exact "system of beliefs", but I feel very confident about them. I like having that.

[BloodFletcher]

Religion doesn't prevent me from doing anything, I don't know about you.

I agree that religion is a powerful thing though.

I said the human race as a whole not you specificily, don't twist my words. Admittidly it did more so in the past as the church was a major power in Europe, and does until this day to an extent, eg. stem cell research and cloning etc. Nevermind about the thousands upon thousands of potential genious's and leader in our society prevented from reaching they're potential by being taught false ideology. But i was mainly talking about the past when i said it blocked human adancement as the church prevented anything new or opposing them and generally halted advancement, nevermind about the wars..

[jonyak]

I said the human race as a whole not you specificily, don't twist my words. Admittidly it did more so in the past as the church was a major power in Europe, and does until this day to an extent, eg. stem cell research and cloning etc. Nevermind about the thousands upon thousands of potential genious's and leader in our society prevented from reaching they're potential by being taught false ideology. But i was mainly talking about the past when i said it blocked human adancement as the church prevented anything new or opposing them and generally halted advancement, nevermind about the wars..

you need to learn how to break your posts into blocks or paragraphs.

I see this and I don't want to read it.

[Agge]

Define a good accomplishment first.

[BloodFletcher]

you need to learn how to break your posts into blocks or paragraphs.

I see this and I don't want to read it.


It's not even long compared to some giant wall of texts on this forum, but i will take your comment into consideration in future. Although If you can't read a short paragraph, GL reading a book ;)

[BloodFletcher]

Define a good accomplishment first.

There are a few, such as churchs introduced the first public hospitals.

[Thif]

These things you mentioned would have been done out of humanity, not religion.
Religion has been working against science for humanity so your point of curing the sick and dying is not true.
Religion did not come up with morale, people did.

So, no, I cant come up with one thing that religion have accomplished.

I would say that you're kind of stacking the deck against religion here. If all the good works the religion does is in fact based in the innate nature of it's worshippers, isn't it fair to assume that the EVILS done in its name is also a result of that same nature. You can't say "religion doesn't do good things, but religious people can" while at the same time absolving practitioners of blame in the evil things done in the name of religion.

Truth be told, religion is neither good or bad. It is like science, or politics, or morality - value-neutral tools used by humans to further their own agendas. The agenda could be mostly good. Or mostly bad. Or mostly ambivalent.

Religion has been the cause of wars, and an impetus to heal the sick. It's helped establish and maintain trade. It's spread great foreign cultures to new lands, and has destroyed the ones already existing there. It's persecuted, killed, saved and brought hope to millions in our history.

To say that religion has been only a good force for humanity, or a bad one, is an incredibly simplistic view of history. Religion is simply neutral. How it is used is what produces the good or bad events. (and even picking what is good and what is bad is a subjective task.



Unification.. a big reason why we aren't living in shit of the medieval ages is that the catholic church unified europe so that they would stop invading each other.


An aside - the Catholic Church didn't do a great job of uniting Europe. And on top of that, political decentralization was one of the area's greatest strengths. The constant clashes between the European kingdoms created the need for military/scientific/artistic innovation, which was not present in unified empires like the Middle East, India and China, which at the time were all vastly more successful than Europe - economically, politically and culturally.

[Joebh]

hmm the cracker and wine industry has been booming since Jesus died.

[jonyak]

It's not even long compared to some giant wall of texts on this forum, but i will take your comment into consideration in future. Although If you can't read a short paragraph, GL reading a book ;)

oh I know.. but I am at work, like I am assuming most of us are, and don't wanna strain to read something. anyways.:p

religion has done alot of good, and alot of bad. it is a true reflection of human nature in some ways.

[Apex Vertigo]

Religion doesn't prevent me from doing anything, I don't know about you.

I agree that religion is a powerful thing though.

I personally could never run for public office, at least not in my own state, because religion has instilled a fear of the godless. I may try anyways, but I will not have a chance in hell in Texas.

A few less personal affects religion has on our society, things you can see happening...

People who are dying are neglected the advancements of science and millions will die or suffer diseases they didn't have to all thanks to the religious leaders fear of modern biological science. I am speaking of Stem Cell Research of course.

Gay marriage, gays aren't permitted the right to marry because it does not fit the moral divinity that marriage is suppose to represent in god's eyes. This issue is important because it just exemplifies the churches ability to restrict our freedoms. This discrimination amongst gays is also affecting our military, taking out valuable translators from our armed forces for such ridiculous reasons.

And problems we experience further away that ultimately affect our economy negatively...

Wars in the middle east, muslims vs muslims, muslims vs hindu, muslim vs christianity, hindus vs christianity, and the U.S. is obviously involved in all of these religious based conflicts in some way, large or small. Wars based on religious doctrine and principles are not limited to the middle east as we all know.

And all this is just off the top of my head while I listen to a lecture in my Sociology class, if I had more reason to list off the horrific factors religion creates and defends I would do a bit more intellectual searching but I believe this is sufficient to get my point across.

[hardboiled]

Organized religion was the major force fighting communist oppression in Poland I believe.

[Mo0rbid]

The Inquisition

[Wind4Air]

Religion (or rather the cathlic church) is the reason we have most of our historical records. Before science religion was the only explination for humanity for a complicated world. (flat world/sun/moon/ect.)

I said the human race as a whole not you specificily, don't twist my words. Admittidly it did more so in the past as the church was a major power in Europe, and does until this day to an extent, eg. stem cell research and cloning etc. Nevermind about the thousands upon thousands of potential genious's and leader in our society prevented from reaching they're potential by being taught false ideology. But i was mainly talking about the past when i said it blocked human adancement as the church prevented anything new or opposing them and generally halted advancement, nevermind about the wars..

Exactly, religion has (for most of the world) grown into an old meatod of understanding which has and will continue to inhibit our technological advancment.

However, religon is also the reason that a much larger fraction of the populace understands the difference between theory and facts. Even though proven theories seem to still count as theories.

[Erroneous]

There’s a little book called The Republic you should be able to get in any library. It was written 300 years before Christ and comes to the same conclusions on morality as Christianity but through reason and discussion rather than the word of a prophet.

Its worth reading just the first few chapters to see that people basically all agreed to the same morals as us without the church forcing it on them.

The Greeks were not a numerous people, the reasons their ideas have proliferated was due to their own excellence during their time and then the Church adopting most of these values and enforcing them on the rest of their domain. I'm sure the Celts the Norse the Moors the Goths etc. weren't too keen on Plato.

Religion, organized or not, did not instill them in us, our instincts and intelligence did. For example, the Vikings had codes for how to live a while before they converted to christianity, and AFAIK, their religion was not organized. Those rules invented by Judaism/Christianity are just stupid, and those they didn't invent are taken from other cultures, and natural instincts and intelligence. I think.

That's exactly the point, I'm not arguing other cultural mores aren't workable, but that having an entire continent sharing the same values made western society possible. It made people willing to trade with one another communicate with one another, trust one another. Religion wasn't the only factor, but it certainly was a major one.

Both of these posts ignore my main point that Organized religion through force marginalized all other systems of thoughts. That 90% of the western world agrees on the same moral values is a product of organized religion. That some believe "our instincts and intelligence" or "reason and discussion" lead us to these moral values shows just how fully this historical indoctrination reaches.

[Atua]

Organized religion was the major force fighting communist oppression in Poland I believe.

Solidarity was a multi trade union, which was the movement which eventually overthrew communism. While most Polish people are Roman catholic, and the church supported this movement, the workers weren't fighting communism for the religion.

[Silverhandorder]

I personally could never run for public office, at least not in my own state, because religion has instilled a fear of the godless. I may try anyways, but I will not have a chance in hell in Texas

A few less personal affects religion has on our society, things you can see happening...

I know what you mean just like government propaganda stacked up for the past 50 years is keeping Ron Paul out of presidency... oh wait.

People who are dying are neglected the advancements of science and millions will die or suffer diseases they didn't have to all thanks to the religious leaders fear of modern biological science. I am speaking of Stem Cell Research of course.
So religious people don't want their money spent for something they do not support... Hmmmm. Better yet find me where it is federal responsibility to fund stem cell research.


Gay marriage, gays aren't permitted the right to marry because it does not fit the moral divinity that marriage is suppose to represent in god's eyes. This issue is important because it just exemplifies the churches ability to restrict our freedoms. This discrimination amongst gays is also affecting our military, taking out valuable translators from our armed forces for such ridiculous reasons.

Church is separate from government. They can do w/e they want with their marriage. What they do with it does not effect anyone negatively or positively. Government was not in marriage until some 50 years ago, for medical reasons. Instead of hating on religion you should realize that the problem comes from outdated laws. Marriage is just the latest expansion of government control.

And problems we experience further away that ultimately affect our economy negatively...

Wars in the middle east, muslims vs muslims, muslims vs hindu, muslim vs christianity, hindus vs christianity, and the U.S. is obviously involved in all of these religious based conflicts in some way, large or small. Wars based on religious doctrine and principles are not limited to the middle east as we all know.

Democrats starting war in Africa, Vietnam, Korea...
And all this is just off the top of my head while I listen to a lecture in my Sociology class, if I had more reason to list off the horrific factors religion creates and defends I would do a bit more intellectual searching but I believe this is sufficient to get my point across.

Yes lets attribute bad government and dumb people's mistakes to religion.

[Hypseos]

I'm sure the Celts the Norse the Moors the Goths etc. weren't too keen on Plato.


.

I think we will have to agree to disagree on this because I feel quite convinced the Celts Norse Moors Goths and any other tribe you can think of would be able to produce the same reasoning as Plato. Mostly the evidence for this is in the morality of their myths so I’ll agree it’s easy to argue against it.

The way I see it (fully admit I could be wrong) is that morality is instinctive to any social animal as a survival trait. The more complex the socializing the more complex the morality needs to be but basically packs of dogs and lions will exhibit morality that matches the most basic parts of ours. The good of the tribe over the good of the individual.

[Laedos]

<crickets chirping>

I got nothing... anyone else? :confused:
missions. There they give food and instruction to poor people, not some kind of dogma. At least for catholic church (i got proof)

[NapalmEnema]

missions. There they give food and instruction to poor people, not some kind of dogma. At least for catholic church (i got proof)

Missions = good
Missionaries = culture crushing brain washing field trips for the holy rollers

[Silverhandorder]

Missions = good
Missionaries = culture crushing brain washing field trips for the holy rollers

But missions still good...

[Aragoni]

It gives work to 1000's of people. Other then that I can't think of one thing.

[NapalmEnema]

But missions still good...

Unless there is something we don't know about like priests eating homeless peoplez. :ohno:

[PrimalSign]

It gives work to 1000's of people. Other then that I can't think of one thing.

Oh c'mon. You have got to admit religion can make for some great stories. What would WH40K be without a God-Emperor? Chaos?

People keep writing about organized religion (or including it in the setting) because it sells.

[Mo0rbid]

missions. There they give food and instruction to poor people, not some kind of dogma. At least for catholic church (i got proof)

"instruction", it's called indoctrination and it's evil


Oh c'mon. You have got to admit religion can make for some great stories. What would WH40K be without a God-Emperor? Chaos?

People keep writing about organized religion (or including it in the setting) because it sells.

OK so you base your argument on the fact that he has the word "god" in his name or what`?

[Aragoni]

Oh c'mon. You have got to admit religion can make for some great stories. What would WH40K be without a God-Emperor? Chaos?

People keep writing about organized religion (or including it in the setting) because it sells.

Touché my dear PrimalSign, touché. The Emperor ftw!

[Apex Vertigo]

I know what you mean just like government propaganda stacked up for the past 50 years is keeping Ron Paul out of presidency... oh wait.


For one, Ron isn't an atheist, he's a republican congressmen in an overwhelmingly republican state. He doesn't have near the opposition an atheist/agnostic/anything but christian would have running for office. You think an atheist can run for office and have the voters vote based on policy and look over his religious background in Texas? Doesn't matter what you think, it's the facts that matter and the facts say you're wrong.


So religious people don't want their money spent for something they do not support... Hmmmm. Better yet find me where it is federal responsibility to fund stem cell research.


Exactly... they don't support it on religious grounds... I don't see what is hard to understand, but this is another example of religion blocking scientific advancement. And I never said it was federal responsibility (even though I think it is a more worthwhile venture than most things we spend on), but the fact that it has been banned in many states is my main concern on this topic.



Church is separate from government. They can do w/e they want with their marriage. What they do with it does not effect anyone negatively or positively. Government was not in marriage until some 50 years ago, for medical reasons. Instead of hating on religion you should realize that the problem comes from outdated laws. Marriage is just the latest expansion of government control.

Again, I don't care what the church wants to do with their marriages, but they should not be influencing state and federal government to conduct bans on alternate ways of life, unless you are arguing religion does't play a role in banning gay marriage and completely upon 'outdated laws', in which case, they would have been completely overturned by now due to the immense support it has gained. Obviously there is support for these 'outdated' laws and they come directly from the religious front.


Democrats starting war in Africa, Vietnam, Korea...


What? Democrats starting wars in Africa, Vietnam, and Korea... has what to do with anything? I suppose you had nothing what so ever to argue this point so you just made a desperate attempt to attack a political party you dislike? Keep in mind I was not attacking the Republican party for starting wars in the middle east, I was attacking religion for being the fuel and motive for countless conflicts in the middle east, in northern and sub-saharan Africa and in the Asian subcontinent. All in which we have been involved in, therefor making them not only a problem of their own, but also a problem for us as a country as we have invested trillions of taxpayer dollars into these conflicts.

[PrimalSign]

OK so you base your argument on the fact that he has the word "god" in his name or what`?

...

I must have read you wrong, since what you seem to be saying is failure beyond anything I have ever seen before... and I'm connected to the internet!

Are you saying that, in the setting of Warhammer 40K, the God-Emperor of Humankind, and the Space Marines, as well as the forces of Chaos, are not heavily influenced by organized religion from the real-world, and Christianity in particular?

[BloodFletcher]

...

I must have read you wrong, since what you seem to be saying is failure beyond anything I have ever seen before... and I'm connected to the internet!

Are you saying that, in the setting of Warhammer 40K, the God-Emperor of Humankind, and the Space Marines, as well as the forces of Chaos, are not heavily influenced by organized religion from the real-world, and Christianity in particular?

For a start warhammer sucks imo :p, secondly i don't think the base of a storyline is a real accomplishment of religion, i don't think bugs bunny was an accomplishment for rabbits ^^

I'm sure they could create an equally intersting storyline without religion.

[Skyborn]

Prepare for the wall o' text you skeptical jackasses.

Ok, I will be the first to suggest that organized religion is unnecessary and counter-productive. It has honestly outlived its usefulness in my opinion.

However, that does not deny the fact that religion has produced many things in the history of mankind. Religion as always is a tool, how that tool is used dictates what we think of it. At times Religion has been used to unite people to great things. The later Roman Empire, the Muslim empires, the Byzantines, religion was a major factor in uniting and maintaining all of them.

Were cultures and peoples slaughtered wholesale to achieve those empires? Abso-freaking-lutely. But that is not the guidance of religion, that was the way of things. Back then it was more join us or die...while today we have more of a "sorry about the bombing hope it didn't break any of your wedding china" thing going on. Illustrated here. (http://www.afblues.com/?p=267) The fact is that when use properly in the past religion was the cornerstone of stable empires. Stable empires that ushered in eras of rapid advancement for human kind.

Some brilliant writers and texts have come out of all religions, Christian writers carried on Greek philosophical traditions during the dark ages. Muslim philosophers advanced medical practices and the list continues. You all act like religion is the fucking force, like Starwars but IRL. Hate to break it to you but religion is not a conscious force, it is simply a tool.

Like the cotton gin I believe that religion has outlived it's usefulness and now is only used to incite and divide humanity. But it remains a TOOL. A tool is morally ambiguous until it is applied by a person. For example, during the first Muslim empires, Islam spread far and wide but for the most part (especially considering the era) it was a time of peace and tolerance. Today, Islam is often used to get people all pissed off for the failings of world politics while ignoring the incompetence of their own leaders. It is basically fascism...but I digress.

Despite the popularity of bashing religion and blaming it for the world's problems it is simply not the truth of things. People, fucking people are responsible for the world's woes. Quick jumping on the modern blame everyone bandwagon and fucking realize that people need to take responsibilities for their actions and quit blaming shit on ambiguous concepts that don't care about blame (cause it can't).

Fuck you guys.

[biggunsar]

Mass death, rape and crime.

Because this is why god was invented in the first place. Before "God" there was no repercussions.

So you could rape murder and do crimes and the only thing you were punished for was death. Which wasn't a big deal because you were dead.

With the invention of god, now after death you had to worry about burning in the fires of hell. So now there was retribution. A punishment after death.


This is how I see religion.

[Silverhandorder]

For one, Ron isn't an atheist, he's a republican congressmen in an overwhelmingly republican state. He doesn't have near the opposition an atheist/agnostic/anything but christian would have running for office. You think an atheist can run for office and have the voters vote based on policy and look over his religious background in Texas? Doesn't matter what you think, it's the facts that matter and the facts say you're wrong.
You loose because most people don't think like you. Ron looses because most people don't think like him. I mean what else is there. You are not right for that district get over it. I sympathize with you and with Ron Paul, but that does not mean your right in your argument.


Exactly... they don't support it on religious grounds... I don't see what is hard to understand, but this is another example of religion blocking scientific advancement. And I never said it was federal responsibility (even though I think it is a more worthwhile venture than most things we spend on), but the fact that it has been banned in many states is my main concern on this topic.

Democrats support taking money away from the rich, thats a bad thing too, do you see me blaming all of worlds evils on democrats? Opponents of stem cell research (which I support my self) are well with in their right to ban it on state level.

Again, I don't care what the church wants to do with their marriages, but they should not be influencing state and federal government to conduct bans on alternate ways of life, unless you are arguing religion does't play a role in banning gay marriage and completely upon 'outdated laws', in which case, they would have been completely overturned by now due to the immense support it has gained. Obviously there is support for these 'outdated' laws and they come directly from the religious front.
They can choose to w/e they want with their time. They don't come to a gays house and torch him do they? On a state level they can do a lot of things. But besides that nothing is stopping gays from making a contract between each other. You attributing gay marriage issue exclusively to religion is alarming.

What? Democrats starting wars in Africa, Vietnam, and Korea... has what to do with anything? I suppose you had nothing what so ever to argue this point so you just made a desperate attempt to attack a political party you dislike? Keep in mind I was not attacking the Republican party for starting wars in the middle east, I was attacking religion for being the fuel and motive for countless conflicts in the middle east, in northern and sub-saharan Africa and in the Asian subcontinent. All in which we have been involved in, therefor making them not only a problem of their own, but also a problem for us as a country as we have invested trillions of taxpayer dollars into these conflicts.
Supporting a war and starting a war are two different things. Bush may have gotten support for the religious reasons, but he started the war not organized religion.

[Skyborn]

You loose...Ron looses...

I hate to do this since you made some good points but you lose for not being able to spell loses.

[Silverhandorder]

I hate to do this since you made some good points but you lose for not being able to spell loses.

>__<

[epicor]

Wonder what the native inhabitants had in place before being 'purged as heathens'.

Do you have any idea how much history we have lost in the name of religion? It's staggering.

But yes, they make nice buildings. (with secret rooms for the naughty choir boys :ohno: )

I wonder how much we have lost because of money?

On topic: If nothing else you have people living fulfilling lives.

[Crying Hyena]

It's been mentioned before but religion is responsible for civilization It allowed the early rulers to exert enough control over the people for civilization to get a foothold. The priests were among the best educated and though they may not have believed it themselves at times, they still used that knowledge to maintain control over the masses. Religion provided us with mathematics, the basis of astronomy, our time system, and many other things.

I do think that we as a society now have come to a point where religion needs to die out because as much as religion has done for us, it's hindering us now.

[Apex Vertigo]

You loose because most people don't think like you. Ron looses because most people don't think like him. I mean what else is there. You are not right for that district get over it. I sympathize with you and with Ron Paul, but that does not mean your right in your argument.


First of all, it's lose, not loose, usually not a spelling Nazi but I hate it when people make that mistake.

Ron loses because people don't think like him. I'd lose because people don't believe like me. My religious views have absolutely nothing to do with my political views, but they will be treated as if they do. Religion plays a role in government that is should not.


Democrats support taking money away from the rich, thats a bad thing too, do you see me blaming all of worlds evils on democrats? Opponents of stem cell research (which I support my self) are well with in their right to ban it on state level.


I'm not blaming all the worlds evil on religion. Furthermore, you need to realize this is not a political debate but a debate about the good and evils of religion.

Opponents of stem cell have a religious motive for being an opponent of it. I see no other opposition to Stem Cell research other than that which ultimately means religion is the road block for this particular issue. It is, in a sense, killing people and making others suffer by denying them these treatments. This argument was made to counter the argument that they 'cure the sick and dying' made earlier in this thread.


They can choose to w/e they want with their time. They don't come to a gays house and torch him do they? On a state level they can do a lot of things. But besides that nothing is stopping gays from making a contract between each other. You attributing gay marriage issue exclusively to religion is alarming.


Maybe not in this century, but certainly in the ones before. And you are right, they legally can do this on a state level, I am merely saying religion is the key argument against gay marriage. I don't see many people making arguments against gay marriage on a logical basis.


Supporting a war and starting a war are two different things. Bush may have gotten support for the religious reasons, but he started the war not organized religion.

Again... this is not about political affiliation or solely about the war in the middle east. My point was that religion has been the fuel and continues to be the motive of war and other extremely violent conflicts all through out the world. I was answering cosmic, that is why i made the connection between their conflict and our tax money.

[Ziegler]

Let's see


violent video games
goths
Cults
bastard children

all fruits of people turning away from religion.

as an aside....stem cell research was NOT banned. Federal Funding of said research was.....meaning that those Pharma companies could have done the research with their own money, but they didnt want to do that.

[Apex Vertigo]

Let's see


violent video games
goths
Cults
bastard children

all fruits of people turning away from religion.

Lol, that was sarcasm right?

[biggunsar]

-===religious joke===- You have been warned!

this kid goes on his date. First time in his life. Brings suzy to a ball game and the next thing you know, suzy's touching him down there. He doens't know exactly what she's doing, but damn it feels good. This has to be a sin.

Well the kid was a very religious boy, and that sunday confesses his date to the father. The father thought yes, this was a sin and told the kid to say 5 hail marys and beg god for his forgivness and don't do it again.


Well next week rolls around and the kid takes suzy out again. This time suzy goes down on him. He has no idea what the hell THAT is, but damn, best invention since sliced bread. THIS HAS TO BE A SIN.

so he rushes to church, can't even wait for sunday. Goes into the confession booth and goes father i have SINNED. ....no answer.
So the kid says louder FATHER I HAVE SINNED.
still no answer, but the preist was old and prone to fall asleep in the confession booth.
So the kid goes to wake the father up, opens the door and no priest. But he looks on the wall and see a "sin" chart.

SO the kid starts looking around for his sins, but doens't' see "getting head" on the chart.

He turns around and see's an alterboy coming and yells "whats the father give for head?!" and the alterboy replies, "oh that's easy, a pop and a bag of chips".

bada bing, bada boom.

[Justinian]

It's been mentioned before but religion is responsible for civilization It allowed the early rulers to exert enough control over the people for civilization to get a foothold. The priests were among the best educated and though they may not have believed it themselves at times, they still used that knowledge to maintain control over the masses. Religion provided us with mathematics, the basis of astronomy, our time system, and many other things.

I do think that we as a society now have come to a point where religion needs to die out because as much as religion has done for us, it's hindering us now.

edit: oops.

[Silverhandorder]

Vertigo you should then be against those individual problems. Religion does not tell those people to come out and do this, they them selves come to this conclusion. They use religion as a tool and in their case an effective tool.
Religion is a scape goat in your case.

[Ziegler]

Lol, that was sarcasm right?

ok...so maybe the cults was a little sarcastic....:lmao:

[Leeroy]

human society.

Besides that. Ha! Becha can't think of anything else!

[Mungad]

Hospitals...

[Mo0rbid]

Our moral and values, peace

[Leeroy]

Let's see


violent video games
goths
Cults
bastard children

all fruits of people turning away from religion.

as an aside....stem cell research was NOT banned. Federal Funding of said research was.....meaning that those Pharma companies could have done the research with their own money, but they didnt want to do that.

Whats wrong with violent video games? =P

[jonyak]

Besides that. Ha! Becha can't think of anything else!

and some would argue its not actualy a good thing.. haha.

[Ziegler]

Whats wrong with violent video games? =P

nothing...werent we supposed to come up with good things from religion.

I'd like to add horror movies as well.

[jonyak]

anal sex.

[m0j0mann]

Religion is a tool that has been used for good and bad goals over the centuries, is currently being used to achieve good and bad goals, and can be used to achieve good and bad goals in the future.
I don't bind myself to any particular religion, nor believe in the stupid dogmatic crap like adam and eve, virgin birth, fluffy angels, etc. I still recognize that some of the morals and messages in religions are quite significant, even today, and can still be used to better the human race.

Some examples from the past:

The Arab Golden Age (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age) would certainly not have come about without the rise of the Islamic caliphates. The Abbasid Caliphates in particular used Qu'ranic messages that emphasized knowledge-gathering, such as "the ink of scientists is more holy then the blood of martyrs" to promote the building of libraries across the empire, as well as mass translating of Greek and Roman texts.

The Southern Christian Leadership Conferece (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Christian_Leadership_Conference ) (SCLC) was Martin Luther King's organisation, and naturally played a large part in the Civil Rights movement.

The Quakers (http://cghs.dadeschools.net/slavery/anti-slavery_movement/quakers.htm) were one of the first, if not the very first major organisation to take a stand against slavery.

That's all I got for now.

[Ziegler]

anal sex.

only if you practice the teaching of...
it's better to give than recieve.

[Skyborn]

Prepare for the wall o' text you skeptical jackasses.

Ok, I will be the first to suggest that organized religion is unnecessary and counter-productive. It has honestly outlived its usefulness in my opinion.

However, that does not deny the fact that religion has produced many things in the history of mankind. Religion as always is a tool, how that tool is used dictates what we think of it. At times Religion has been used to unite people to great things. The later Roman Empire, the Muslim empires, the Byzantines, religion was a major factor in uniting and maintaining all of them.

Were cultures and peoples slaughtered wholesale to achieve those empires? Abso-freaking-lutely. But that is not the guidance of religion, that was the way of things. Back then it was more join us or die...while today we have more of a "sorry about the bombing hope it didn't break any of your wedding china" thing going on. Illustrated here. (http://www.afblues.com/?p=267) The fact is that when use properly in the past religion was the cornerstone of stable empires. Stable empires that ushered in eras of rapid advancement for human kind.

Some brilliant writers and texts have come out of all religions, Christian writers carried on Greek philosophical traditions during the dark ages. Muslim philosophers advanced medical practices and the list continues. You all act like religion is the fucking force, like Starwars but IRL. Hate to break it to you but religion is not a conscious force, it is simply a tool.

Like the cotton gin I believe that religion has outlived it's usefulness and now is only used to incite and divide humanity. But it remains a TOOL. A tool is morally ambiguous until it is applied by a person. For example, during the first Muslim empires, Islam spread far and wide but for the most part (especially considering the era) it was a time of peace and tolerance. Today, Islam is often used to get people all pissed off for the failings of world politics while ignoring the incompetence of their own leaders. It is basically fascism...but I digress.

Despite the popularity of bashing religion and blaming it for the world's problems it is simply not the truth of things. People, fucking people are responsible for the world's woes. Quick jumping on the modern blame everyone bandwagon and fucking realize that people need to take responsibilities for their actions and quit blaming shit on ambiguous concepts that don't care about blame (cause it can't).

Fuck you guys.

I am quoting myself since you are all too chicken to answer! Seriously not one response, you guys are pussies.

[Tamako_Luth]

info: i do not support religion but:

a few vecations, like christmas

[Shrang]

Christian Rock.

This person deserves to be shot.

[jonyak]

I am quoting myself since you are all too chicken to answer! Seriously not one response, you guys are pussies.

I didn't read your wall of text. too many... what do they call those things... words?

[Skyborn]

I didn't read your wall of text. too many... what do they call those things... words?

Nice, but seriously someone try to correct me I want to argu...err debate today.

[jonyak]

Nice, but seriously someone try to correct me I want to argu...err debate today.

ok I read it.

I agree.

[m0j0mann]

Like the cotton gin I believe that religion has outlived it's usefulness and now is only used to incite and divide humanity

Agreed with all of your post except this. The majority of religious people today are ordinary average folk who don't focus on divisions at all. And religion today is used for things like charity, so it's certainly not only used to divide.

There will always be dividers, and religion is only one of them. Moreover, if religious hate-preachers and violence-advocates are a problem, the best way to combat them is with their own religion, where you will likely find ample messages condemning violence and hate.

[Skyborn]

ok I read it.

I agree.

ass

[rwp80]

Name ONE good thing accomplished by organized religion

It keeps the arseholes and retards of the world tucked away in one place.

[Ziegler]

It keeps the arseholes and retards of the world tucked away in one place.

I thought that was forumfalls job?

Or are they just for the internet?

[Rimayven]

Organized religion is teaching Mankind the holy ways of God, Whose teachings were sent by the 20 holy prophets.

Submit to His Will, and you will be rewarded with paradise in the Afterlife after the Holy day of Judgement. Heretics will go to hell, says the holy texts.

The original holy texts have enlightened Mankind and led them closer to their Lord and Creator.

Religion has eliminated stupid idol worship, what have these idols done for man? The true creator is the one and only Almighty God, all seeing, the most merciful.

[Gloomrender]

I guess one good thing would be various charity involvements, if one thing is what you want, that's one thing.../shrug

There's more "good" things religion has accomplished. As bad as religion may be in It's entirety, these good points can't be ignored, unless you don't mind being as equally deluded and ignorant as those pious people which you detest, making yourself equally detestable.

[Dhig]

I would say that you're kind of stacking the deck against religion here. If all the good works the religion does is in fact based in the innate nature of it's worshippers, isn't it fair to assume that the EVILS done in its name is also a result of that same nature. You can't say "religion doesn't do good things, but religious people can" while at the same time absolving practitioners of blame in the evil things done in the name of religion.

Truth be told, religion is neither good or bad. It is like science, or politics, or morality - value-neutral tools used by humans to further their own agendas. The agenda could be mostly good. Or mostly bad. Or mostly ambivalent.

Religion has been the cause of wars, and an impetus to heal the sick. It's helped establish and maintain trade. It's spread great foreign cultures to new lands, and has destroyed the ones already existing there. It's persecuted, killed, saved and brought hope to millions in our history.

To say that religion has been only a good force for humanity, or a bad one, is an incredibly simplistic view of history. Religion is simply neutral. How it is used is what produces the good or bad events. (and even picking what is good and what is bad is a subjective task.


I quote myself because you cant read everything I typed it seems.

So basic is that everything bad that has been done in the name of religion is made by people using religion for their own means.
Then all the good thing that has been done in the name of religion comes from god/s.

I typed that in perspective on what some thinks religion stands for.

[Dirty l3um]

It keeps the arseholes and retards of the world tucked away in one place.

Like someone else said, i think forumfall keeps the " arseholes and retards" occupied, atheism also keeps these same people occupied.

[Rimayven]

This thread is full of heretics :-D

[Destrukto]

Organized religion is teaching Mankind the holy ways of God, Whose teachings were sent by the 20 holy prophets.

Submit to His Will, and you will be rewarded with paradise in the Afterlife after the Holy day of Judgement. Heretics will go to hell, says the holy texts.

The original holy texts have enlightened Mankind and led them closer to their Lord and Creator.

Religion has eliminated stupid idol worship, what have these idols done for man? The true creator is the one and only Almighty God, all seeing, the most merciful.

Not ALL idol worship amiright? http://tv.popcrunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/american_idol.jpg

[tarsus]

Horny Catholic school girls

[Rimayven]

Not ALL idol worship amiright? http://tv.popcrunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/american_idol.jpg

Ouch. Religion feels ironic indeed.

[Hitom]

It gives feeble minded people a fake security of hope.

[Rimayven]

It gives feeble minded people a fake security of hope.

We all hope to go to heaven one day, or want to experience it at least once during our short lives....

[jonyak]

We hope to go to heaven one day.

too bad, the way most of you act you will be going the complete opposite way.

[Rimayven]

too bad, the way most of you act you will be going the complete opposite way.

What do you mean? Are you testing my faith?

[Gloomrender]

too bad, the way most of you act you will be going the complete opposite way.

Only mormons make it to heaven.

[Rimayven]

Only mormons make it to heaven.

Wrong! The followers of Islam follow the one and only Truth from the holy prophet and his book! We will know heaven.

[Hitom]

We all hope to go to heaven one day, or want to experience it at least once during our short lives....

Heaven isnt a place you go to when you die. Its something you might be able to create while your still alive.

[Dirty l3um]

Wrong! The followers of Islam follow the one and only Truth from the holy prophet and his book! We will know heaven.

funny how islam came about after Christianity and in islamic eschatology, all of their endtimes figures are the opposite. Who they call Mahdi (their savior) is who i will call the anti-christ. cruelly ironic

[Grumblebelly]

Religion created myths, legends, monters, heroes, epic quests and magic. This provided inspiration for the fantasy genre and therefore even Darkfall.

[Rimayven]

Heaven isnt a place you go to when you die. Its something you might be able to create while your still alive.

But.... the holy texts say that the paradise in the Afterlife is unimaginable compared to anything in the real world! God has created paradise for the truly faithful, and only they will experience the full version!

[Hitom]

But.... the holy texts say that the paradise in the Afterlife is unimaginable compared to anything in the real world! God has created paradise for the truly faithful, and only they will experience the full version!

I belive your trolling, but ok, ill play.

God didnt create those "holy" texts. Some powermongers back in the days figured it would be a nice way to control people. And it was.

If god did create earth, humans, air, sea, animals and everything ells we know as life. Then the earth must have simply been a beta test for a greater place he was about to create.

[Rimayven]

I belive your trolling, but ok, ill play.

God didnt create those "holy" texts. Some powermongers back in the days figured it would be a nice way to control people. And it was.

If god did create earth, humans, air, sea, animals and everything ells we know as life. Then the earth must have simply been a beta test for a greater place he was about to create.

That might be true, the charlatan powermongerer part and accusing me of trolling.

Seriously, one good thing accomplished by religion was...

[Hitom]

Seriously, one good thing accomplished by religion was...

Hillarious trolling on various internet forums.

[m0j0mann]

I belive your trolling, but ok, ill play.

God didnt create those "holy" texts. Some powermongers back in the days figured it would be a nice way to control people. And it was.

If god did create earth, humans, air, sea, animals and everything ells we know as life. Then the earth must have simply been a beta test for a greater place he was about to create.

I'm no believer in the whole adam-and-eve created-in-7-days malarkey, like I said, but I am a theist.
I believe that the universe, and the laws that govern it, are too balanced and perfect to be just coincidence. The universe, that is - not specifically earth, or humans. That whole in-god's-image malarkey was just humans naturally thinking their species and planet is unique/better than the rest. IMO.

[Rimayven]

Hillarious trolling on various internet forums.

But lets try to imagine a world where organized religion and belief never existed...

What would it be like?

[Weeking]

Making it obvious who the nutters are. You just have to read the member list or look at their religious clothing, symbols, speech patterns and so on. And at the same time hiding the really big nutters in the crowd so they can have a normal life. It is basically a cheap alternative to putting them all in mental asylums and prevents them from letting their delusions and hallucinations affect important matters and outsiders.

[Dirty l3um]

Hillarious trolling on various internet forums.

its not trolling. Just because you dont agree with someone dones not make them a troll. Even if the general consensus on the forum that they are posting on is against what they stand for.

but this is forumfall...
And On forumfall a "troll" is anyone who disagrees with richard dawkins.

[Rimayven]

its not trolling. Just because you dont agree with someone dones not make them a troll. Even if the general consensus on the forum that they are posting on is against what they stand for.

but this is forumfall...
And On forumfall a "troll" is anyone who disagrees with richard dawkins.

Who is Richard Dawkins?

[Beeblebrox]

No work on Sundays and pope jokes.

[Shads]

Horny Catholic school girls

*ding ding ding ding* Ladies and Gents we have a winner!

[Hitom]

Who is Richard Dawkins?

Atheist extremist #1
http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Dawkins

[bluthorn]

The United States of America seems to be a good contribution by Christianity, at least.

[jordanleroux]

War

I like war

[Damwa]

The United States of America seems to be a good contribution by Christianity, at least.

As in "the Christians built it", or as in "people went there 'cause they were being persecuted by Christians" or both?

And I don't know if I would agree that the US is the result of *organized* religion.


My answer is this... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Champagne_(wine))

[Bawlin]

I'd say religion isn't all bad, as in modern times it promotes community service and encourages moral behavior (as long as its morals not derived directly from the Bible). Also, monks recorded a lot of medieval history and gave us insight into their culture.

[Mulambo]

<crickets chirping>

I got nothing... anyone else? :confused:

wot about stuff like this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adventist_Development_and_Relief_Agency

[Wickfield]

Modern organized religion reaches out to neighboring communities and encourages the donation of time and money to welfare organizations. Their facilities also house the homeless, feed the hungry, etc. Donations to organized religion also go to building and development projects in third world nations.

At least, that's the kind of church that I've been exposed to, and a lot of the synagogues around here are similar in their outreach.


Also, I think its been said... Catholic Schoolgirls. 'Nuff said.

[Beeblebrox]

Atheist extremist #1
http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Dawkins

Richard Dawkins is God.


See what I just did there?

[rwp80]

Like someone else said, i think forumfall keeps the " arseholes and retards" occupied, atheism also keeps these same people occupied.

How so?

Anyway, I'm glad I am neither religious nor atheist.

[Signus]

Preservation of history, helping out those in need(my local church helped put a few kids through college), sanctuaries to the hunted.

[Paradiso]

try Daoism. there's nothing wrong with Daoism.

[Lictor]

Preservation of history, helping out those in need(my local church helped put a few kids through college), sanctuaries to the hunted.

They probably also helped them go through their sexual initiation.

[Mo0rbid]

Religion created myths, legends, monters, heroes, epic quests and magic. This provided inspiration for the fantasy genre and therefore even Darkfall.

no, fairy tales wasn't invented by religion

[Vanno]

Christian Rock.

Word, and U2.

[salaam]

so they fuck natural selection?
curing dying people? with miracles lol?
increasing the quality of life? by taking away their possesions and putting them in churches to do boring stuff?
Giving retard a reason to live, great...

i lol'd and then remembered why stopped reading this kind of threads on forumfall

[Odium]

Organized religion has been the basis for many of the world's best literature. Without it we wouldn't have things like Dante's The Divine Comedy or Paradise Lost.