Throw you vote away

[Slypieguy]

http://www.bobbarr2008.com/img/PresidentialCandidateSpendingChart.gif

I know I am.

[Hitom]

I know I am.

Good for you?

[Atua]

Paid for by 'Bob Barr for President'.

Biased chart is biased.

[Nafelos]

that -201 Bill gave me a hard on.

[Slypieguy]

Paid for by 'Bob Barr for President'.

Biased chart is biased.

Maybe you missed the actual source? (national taxpayers union)

[ejnomad07]

All those programs he intends to cut to save that much money makes me a little worried about what he intends to cut.

[Slypieguy]

All those programs he intends to cut to save that much money makes me a little worried about what he intends to cut.

I suppose you liked the government better under Clinton than W? Well, there goes 40% of the government right there, which is definitely more than 200 billion dollars.

[Atua]

Maybe you missed the actual source? (national taxpayers union)

Maybe you missed the part where he paid for the research to be done, which means I wouldn't trust it.

[ejnomad07]

I suppose you liked the government better under Clinton than W? Well, there goes 40% of the government right there, which is definitely more than 200 billion dollars.

I like you slypie, but your crazy. :lmao:

[Slypieguy]

Maybe you missed the part where he paid for the research to be done, which means I wouldn't trust it.

Ohhh, so I can say that about anything the Obama campaign puts out? Goody, what an easy argument to make that will negate his millions of dollars!

[Slypieguy]

I like you slypie, but your crazy. :lmao:

What? The government grew in size 40% since Bush took office... I don't understand what you are disputing

[Atua]

Ohhh, so I can say that about anything the Obama campaign puts out? Goody, what an easy argument to make that will negate his millions of dollars!

I discredit anything the Obama campaign puts out as well. I'd love for this information you posted to be true, but I've bashed Obama supporters for quoting his site and his speeches, so I am bashing this.

[Slypieguy]

I discredit anything the Obama campaign puts out as well. I'd love for this information you posted to be true, but I've bashed Obama supporters for quoting his site and his speeches, so I am bashing this.

Well a similar chart was floating around during primary season that had every candidate but Ron Paul and Rudy Giuliani making significant increases in spending. I guess that one was biased too? Is it really that hard for you to accept that the 2 parties want the government to be more bloated, and by some chance maybe one of these insignificant 3rd parties would actually like to go in the opposite direction?

[Killuminati]

Maybe you missed the actual source? (national taxpayers union)

Pwnt


I like you slypie, but your crazy. :lmao:

Yah, sorry, not everyone is in lala land.

[Atua]

Well a similar chart was floating around during primary season that had every candidate but Ron Paul and Rudy Giuliani making significant increases in spending. I guess that one was biased too? Is it really that hard for you to accept that the 2 parties want the government to be more bloated, and by some chance maybe one of these insignificant 3rd parties would actually like to go in the opposite direction?

No, you're missing my point. The fact that it was paid for by Barr makes this a poor source for your argument. I'm not contending that your argument is in principle flawed.

By your logic me posting that Obama will cut 95% of American's taxes and posting Obama's website as a source would be accurate?

[Slypieguy]

No, you're missing my point. The fact that it was paid for by Barr makes this a poor source for your argument. I'm not contending that your argument is in principle flawed.

Also, if you think Bob Barr has enough campaign money to buy some data like that, then lol @ u


By your logic me posting that Obama will cut 95% of American's taxes and posting Obama's website as a source would be accurate?

Point taken, but I would posit that the 3rd parties have much less incentive to try to spin things, as they know they aren't gonna win anyway. And unless Obama's site had an independent source like the taxpayers union, your analogy doesn't hold up.

[ejnomad07]

Pwnt




Yah, sorry, not everyone is in lala land.

I have no issue with him saying Bush took this the wrong way, but some of Bob Barr's plans for the country scare me. His ideas for Education and Complete lack of any gun control are some.

[Slypieguy]

I have no issue with him saying Bush took this the wrong way, but some of Bob Barr's plans for the country scare me. His ideas for Education and Complete lack of any gun control are some.

Holy crap, that sounds way too much like what.... who were those guys... oh yea! the founders, it sounds way too much like what they wanted, absolutely crazy

God forbid we follow the 2nd amendment, and god forbid we don't throw more money at a bloated and failing federal education bureaucracy

[Atua]

Also, if you think Bob Barr has enough campaign money to buy some data like that, then lol @ u



Point taken, but I would posit that the 3rd parties have much less incentive to try to spin things, as they know they aren't gonna win anyway. And unless Obama's site had an independent source like the taxpayers union, your analogy doesn't hold up.

Once you pay for it, it ceases to be independent. If he didn't pay for it, he shouldn't advertise that he did.

And I agree that 3rd parties have less incentive to spin things, none the less, if you or I are going to bash Obamanites who cite sources with obvious bias, I think it would be hypocritical to hold this chart to some higher degree of legitimacy.

And yes, Barr seems like the best candidate still running.

[ejnomad07]

Holy crap, that sounds way too much like what.... who were those guys... oh yea! the founders, it sounds way too much like what they wanted, absolutely crazy

God forbid we follow the 2nd amendment, and god forbid we don't throw more money at a bloated and failing federal education bureaucracy

Holy crap! Founding Father's never had nukes either. Hell your right. Lets repeal the amendments past 10 as they never made them.

[Atua]

Helping crap! Founding Father's never had nukes either. Hell your right. Lets repeal the amendments past 10 as they never made them.

Helping crap! The amendment process is there for a reason. Changing the constitution, or going completely against it without that process, reduces the constitution to a fire starter.

[ejnomad07]

Helping crap! The amendment process is there for a reason. Changing the constitution, or going completely against it without that process, reduces the constitution to a fire starter.

Trying to prove my point?

[Slypieguy]

Once you pay for it, it ceases to be independent. If he didn't pay for it, he shouldn't advertise that he did.


I don't think non-partisan organizations are rushing to do research and make charts on 3rd party candidates. Paying for it is really his only option. Perhaps he paid for it to be done - and im going out on a limb here - because he already knew approximately how it would wind up?

[Slypieguy]

Helping crap! Founding Father's never had nukes either. Hell your right. Lets repeal the amendments past 10 as they never made them.

What do nukes have to do with the 2nd amendment or federal education bureaucracy? And who said anything about repealing amendments? Where do you come up with this shit?

[ejnomad07]

What do nukes have to do with the 2nd amendment or federal education bureaucracy? And who said anything about repealing amendments? Where do you come up with this shit?

Your using the 2nd amendment to own any gun as the founding fathers had in mind, but you neglect to remember they did not have guns that even had machine gun abilities. You really think they would write it the same today?

[Atua]

I don't think non-partisan organizations are rushing to do research and make charts on 3rd party candidates. Paying for it is really his only option. Perhaps he paid for it to be done - and im going out on a limb here - because he already knew approximately how it would wind up?

Quite likely.

[Atua]

Your using the 2nd amendment to own any gun as the founding fathers had in mind, but you neglect to remember they did not have guns that even had machine gun abilities. You really think they would write it the same today?

The military didn't have machine guns then either, they do now.
The 2nd was written to (among other reasons) give people a chance to defend themselves against the gov't. It would be written exactly as it was.

[Slypieguy]

Your using the 2nd amendment to own any gun as the founding fathers had in mind, but you neglect to remember they did not have guns that even had machine gun abilities. You really think they would write it the same today?

Gotta have better guns to keep up with bigger government :)

[ejnomad07]

Well damn...where can I get a nuke? They have some and I should be on equal footing right?

[Atua]

Well damn...where can I get a nuke? They have some and I should be on equal footing right?

See if Russia or Israel will sell you one.

[ejnomad07]

See if Russia or Israel will sell you one.

Well that all swell but Bob Barr supports Isolationism so we shouldn't talk to them. Shame on you.

[Atua]

Well that all swell but Bob Barr supports Isolationism so we shouldn't talk to them. Shame on you.

Noninterventionalism /= isolationism

Mainstream media moar plox.

[Slypieguy]

Well that all swell but Bob Barr supports Isolationism so we shouldn't talk to them. Shame on you.

Also, he isn't the same on foreign policy as Ron Paul, so even if you could call Paul an isolationist, you can't call Barr one. (He's a little weaker on the "leave everyone the hell alone" mentality)

[Slypieguy]

Noninterventionalism /= isolationism

Mainstream media moar plox.

Jon Mkaine sed it so it muzt be troo

[ejnomad07]

Noninterventionalism /= isolationism

Mainstream media moar plox.

His way of fighting the world is attacking them with a free market....right....He makes emphasis on defence only and pulling all foreign military home. so yes he is learning toward isolationism.

[Slypieguy]

His way of fighting the world is attacking them with a free market....right....He makes emphasis on defence only and pulling all foreign military home. so yes he is learning toward isolationism.

Look up isolationism plz

[Atua]

His way of fighting the world is attacking them with a free market....right....He makes emphasis on defence only and pulling all foreign military home. so yes he is learning toward isolationism.

Yes, because not having military in 130 countries is isolationism am I rite? And bringing troops home will somehow hamper trade and diplomacy with the countries that these troops are in, am I rite again?


Poor troll is poor.

[ejnomad07]

Look up isolationism plz

Non-interventionism is leading down the road toward isolationism, but you still have not justified why I can't have a nuke.

Yes, because not having military in 130 countries is isolationism am I rite? And bringing troops home will somehow hamper trade and diplomacy with the countries that these troops are in, am I rite again?


Poor troll is poor.

If not aiding them unless its to our self-defence as Bob Barr says..Then yes. Its down that long and lonesome road.

[Slypieguy]

Non-interventionism is leading down the road toward isolationism, but you still have not justified why I can't have a nuke.

And gay rights leads down the road to people marrying animals... oops dumb argument
And legalizing pot leads down th road to legalizing crack and heroine... oops still a dumb argument

And you can't have a nuke because you can't afford one :)

[Atua]

Non-interventionism is leading down the road toward isolationism, but you still have not justified why I can't have a nuke.



If not aiding them unless its to our self-defence as Bob Barr says..Then yes. Its down that long and lonesome road.

I never said you can't have one.

I don't understand what you are trying to argue with your second part. Why should we aid anyone? So far most of our 'aid' has fucked us over later on.

[ejnomad07]

And gay rights leads down the road to people marrying animals... oops dumb argument
And legalizing pot leads down th road to legalizing crack and heroine... oops still a dumb argument

And you can't have a nuke because you can't afford one :)

First one is a terrible strench even for you...

Second one. Hey if it can save lives why not let them use in for medical purposes?

I never said you can't have one.

I don't understand what you are trying to argue with your second part. Why should we aid anyone? So far most of our 'aid' has fucked us over later on.

So because we have tried and failed at helping some. We should stop entirely and ignore those that we have really helped or may help?

[Slypieguy]

First one is a terrible strench even for you...

Second one. Hey if it can save lives why not let them use in for medical purposes?

I see my point went totally over your head :p
Basically the "slippery slope" argument is a bad one in a lot of situations.

[ejnomad07]

I see my point went totally over your head :p
Basically the "slippery slope" argument is a bad one in a lot of situations.

Yours not included.

[Atua]

First one is a terrible strench even for you...

Second one. Hey if it can save lives why not let them use in for medical purposes?



So because we have tried and failed at helping some. We should stop entirely and ignore those that we have really helped or may help?

Considering the success rate of our 'help' and the amount of casualties that our 'help' produces, yes. The gov't should stop sending aid, especially if it comes with economic conditions like it always does. We do more harm with this aid than good. I don't see how stopping it is a bad thing.

Unless you think throwing money into Africa will feed the children, or subsidizing Israel's military will bring peace to the region.

Not to mention the aid money is stolen from tax payers.

Oh noes, not sending money means we are isolationists.

[Slypieguy]

Considering the success rate of our 'help' and the amount of casualties that our 'help' produces, yes. The gov't should stop sending aid, especially if it comes with economic conditions like it always does. We do more harm with this aid than good. I don't see how stopping it is a bad thing.

Unless you think throwing money into Africa will feed the children, or subsidizing Israel's military will bring peace to the region.

Not to mention the aid money is stolen from tax payers.

Oh noes, not sending money means we are isolationists.


You shut up. Those 12 yr old boys in Africa need those AK47s

[ejnomad07]

You shut up. Those 12 yr old boys in Africa need those AK47s

Hell so should our kids right? they have the 2nd amendment as well.

[Slypieguy]

Hell so should our kids right? they have the 2nd amendment as well.

Sure, when they become adults

[ejnomad07]

Considering the success rate of our 'help' and the amount of casualties that our 'help' produces, yes. The gov't should stop sending aid, especially if it comes with economic conditions like it always does. We do more harm with this aid than good. I don't see how stopping it is a bad thing.

Unless you think throwing money into Africa will feed the children, or subsidizing Israel's military will bring peace to the region.

Not to mention the aid money is stolen from tax payers.

Oh noes, not sending money means we are isolationists.

Not sending money out of goodwill but only to further ourselves then yes it is. Your examples by the way are for our own self-defence.

[Atua]

Sure, when they become adults

Didn't you know, Barr wants to arm infants. See what happens when parents are slow to change a diaper.

[ejnomad07]

Didn't you know, Barr wants to arm infants. See what happens when parents are slow to change a diaper.

I knew there was a reason not to vote for him. :idea:

[Atua]

Not sending money out of goodwill but only to further ourselves then yes it is. Your examples by the way are for our own self-defence.

No really, it isn't. Having open trade and diplomacy with a country is not isolationism. Sending 'free' money or having troops located overseas are not preconditions to nonisolationism.


I know, it's probably difficult for you to imagine, you can have relations with a country without trying to tell them what to do.

[ejnomad07]

Free Money? foreign aid has proved to be a drain on the U.S. economy while doing little good for the recipients. Aid is routinely used by corrupt foreign governments to oppress their people and enrich powerful elites. Foreign aid almost always discourages economic and political reform.

Troops in foreign countries helping them? Bringing these soldiers home would better protect America while saving lives and money. The U.S. requires a military strong enough to defend this nation, not to support and defend much of the rest of the world.

This is isolationist talk.

[Slypieguy]

Free Money? foreign aid has proved to be a drain on the U.S. economy while doing little good for the recipients. Aid is routinely used by corrupt foreign governments to oppress their people and enrich powerful elites. Foreign aid almost always discourages economic and political reform.

Troops in foreign countries helping them? Bringing these soldiers home would better protect America while saving lives and money. The U.S. requires a military strong enough to defend this nation, not to support and defend much of the rest of the world.

What in the hell? Did you just do a 180? Now I'm confused.

[Hitom]

What in the hell? Did you just do a 180? Now I'm confused.

Dont try and understand it, just experience it.

[Atua]

What in the hell? Did you just do a 180? Now I'm confused.

Nice that you caught that, I was slow on the quote button.
His trolling is weak anyhow. Airius is funner.

[ejnomad07]

Realized this is a waste of my time like most talks on politics.

[Slypieguy]

Realized this is a waste of my time like most talks on politics.

Hey, you must be an UNDECIDED OHIO VOTER! lolz

[ejnomad07]

Hey, you must be an UNDECIDED OHIO VOTER! lolz

Oh I decided. Just not going to try and keep you from wasting yours anymore.

[Atua]

Hey, you must be an UNDECIDED OHIO VOTER! lolz

I hear Obama is giving 'everyone' a tax cut, and a magic lamp with a genie in it to grant them 3 wishes. All paid for by the people not getting a tax cut.

[Vanno]

I'm with you Sly. I don't really even like Barr, but he will be getting my vote unles Chuck Baldwin can convince me otherwise when we meet for pancakes this Wednesday.

[Slypieguy]

I would really like to do an IQ test on a pool of undecided Ohio voters versus a pool of decided Ohio voters.

[Slypieguy]

I'm with you Sly. I don't really even like Barr, but he will be getting my vote unles Chuck Baldwin can convince me otherwise when we meet for pancakes this Wednesday.

zomg pancakes? where?

Also, the constitution party has about zilch chance of getting the magical 5% for federal funding, so you might as well throw it to the LP and hope for the best

[ejnomad07]

I would really like to do an IQ test on a pool of undecided Ohio voters versus a pool of decided Ohio voters.

I would love to see how an IQ test on those that think throwing away votes somehow helps this country.

[Slypieguy]

I would love to see how an IQ test on those that think throwing away votes somehow helps this country.

Mine was pretty fucking high last time I checked.
Are you disagreeing with me that the infamous "undecided Ohio voters" are fucking idiots?

[Atua]

I would love to see how an IQ test on those that think throwing away votes somehow helps this country.

I would love to see an IQ test on those that think voting for Obama or McCain somehow helps this country. Also on people writing in white.

[Vanno]

zomg pancakes? where?

Also, the constitution party has about zilch chance of getting the magical 5% for federal funding, so you might as well throw it to the LP and hope for the best

IHOP, in Springtuckey Oregon. I believe IHOP has an all you can eat pancake deal going on, so this is more an excuse to be a fatass than anything. Also, I agree with your 5% analysis, which is partially why I'll most likely be throwing my vote the LP's way.

[ejnomad07]

Mine was pretty fucking high last time I checked.
Are you disagreeing with me that the infamous "undecided Ohio voters" are fucking idiots?

Its one thing to be undecided. Its another to suggest throwing you vote away is a good thing. Might as well tell them not to vote.

I would love to see an IQ test on those that think voting for Obama or McCain somehow helps this country. Also on people writing in white.

Don't be stupid. We both know intelligent people are voting for both not all smart people are benefited from one candidate.

IHOP, in Springtuckey Oregon. I believe IHOP has an all you can eat pancake deal going on, so this is more an excuse to be a fatass than anything. Also, I agree with your 5% analysis, which is partially why I'll most likely be throwing my vote the LP's way.

IHOP does. Its yummy.

[Slypieguy]

Its one thing to be undecided. Its another to suggest throwing you vote away is a good thing. Might as well tell them not to vote.


Oh sorry, I was thinking that a representative republic revolved around voting for the person you thought was the best candidate.

And I feel like a disgusting slob after eating at IHOP, never fails.

[Parrothead]

Oh sorry, I was thinking that a representative republic revolved around voting for the person you thought was the best candidate.

And I feel like a disgusting slob after eating at IHOP, never fails.

Of course not! You get two flavors of candidates. Spendocrat, or Repiglicans! Choose. Choose wisely.

[ejnomad07]

Oh sorry, I was thinking that a representative republic revolved around voting for the person you thought was the best candidate.

And I feel like a disgusting slob after eating at IHOP, never fails.

Sorry about the IHOP issue. Thats a bad one.

You sure did a good job promoting him for his beliefs and not how its a waste of everyone's votes right out the gate. Oh wait..you didn't

[Slypieguy]

You sure did a good job promoting him for his beliefs and no how its a waste of everyone's votes right out the gate. Oh wait..you didn't

Better English plz?

[Hitom]

Im totally not following what you guys are talking about.
But some of the lines i've read in here are fucking hillarious.

[Slypieguy]

Im totally not following what you guys are talking about.
But some of the lines i've read in here are fucking hillarious.

That's all that matters in the end. Good for you

[ejnomad07]

Better English plz?

Sorry forgot a "T". Better?

[Atua]

Im totally not following what you guys are talking about.
But some of the lines i've read in here are fucking hillarious.

Hilarious to the point of wanting to curl up in a corner and cry.

[Atua]

Sorry forgot a "T". Better?

You forgot how to make sense also.

[Slypieguy]

You sure did a good job promoting him for his beliefs and not how its a waste of everyone's votes right out the gate. Oh wait..you didn't

Maybe because it isn't a waste? 5%= federal funding next time= more voices

[ejnomad07]

You forgot how to make sense also.

Slypie understood. -1 for the Bob Barr intelligent. Send you a speak and spell later.

Maybe because it isn't a waste? 5%= federal funding next time= more voices

Sounds like a reversal from the start of this thread. Like the topic's name. backtracking much?

[Slypieguy]

Sounds like a reversal from the start of this thread. Like the topic's name. backtracking much?

The topic was sarcasm. Doesn't translate well on the intertruck

[Shane]

You guys went over all the good stuff and didn't give me a chance to read and post back at page 3. :(

Bob Barr will be getting my vote. When you do the research (by actually observing their voting and belief record) and make an informed decision, no matter what candidate you decide on, it's never wasting your vote.

When you believe that the candidate you choose will bring America back on the right track, whether its for taxing the rich because they obviously won't just raise prices or lower wages to counterbalance it, helping Israel with billions of dollars, or praying to Jesus, ...no, wait, those are not informed decisions.

Weather its for making taxes more effective, cutting spending intelligently, or believing that not every American is a raving psychopath who just wants to go on murder sprees like the TV wants people to believe, as long as its an informed decision, it's never wasting your vote.

[ejnomad07]

The topic was sarcasm. Doesn't translate well on the intertruck

Well then good luck to you and your candidate, but you will have to excuse me if I don't see the good in him for our country.

You guys went over all the good stuff and didn't give me a chance to read and post back at page 3. :(

Bob Barr will be getting my vote. When you do the research (by actually observing their voting and belief record) and make an informed decision, no matter what candidate you decide on, it's never wasting your vote.

When you believe that the candidate you choose will bring America back on the right track, whether its for taxing the rich because they obviously won't just raise prices or lower wages to counterbalance it, helping Israel with billions of dollars, or praying to Jesus, ...no, wait, those are not informed decisions.

Weather its for making taxes more effective, cutting spending intelligently, or believing that not every American is a raving psychopath who just wants to go on murder sprees like the TV wants people to believe, as long as its an informed decision, it's never wasting your vote.

I don't think anyone will disagree with you on what your trying to say.

[Slypieguy]

Well then good luck to you and your candidate, but you will have to excuse me if I don't see the good in him for our country.


There is also the problem that I don't think either McCain or Obama will be better than Bush. I can't vote for someone who is gonna be worse. Maybe if it were Fred Thompson I could stomach the lesser evil routine, but McCain is just so bad.

[Vanno]

Lol, Fred Thompson. On a serious note, anyone would have been better than McCain. Hell, I'd have perferred Alan Keyes to McCain.

[Slypieguy]

Lol, Fred Thompson. On a serious note, anyone would have been better than McCain. Hell, I'd have perferred Alan Keyes to McCain.

Alan's debate performances were epic

Fred is a badass and supports a flat tax

[ejnomad07]

There is also the problem that I don't think

You could have stopped right there.

[Slypieguy]

You could have stopped right there.

Compelling argument. I'll be sure to use that one sometime.

[Vanno]

Alan's debate performances were epic

Fred is a badass and supports a flat tax

Fred was ok, I would have ranked him probably 3-4 on my list; I think he fucked up by staying out of the race so long.

Paul
Romney
Hunter/Thompson
Huckster

[Slypieguy]

Fred was ok, I would have ranked him probably 3-4 on my list; I think he fucked up by staying out of the race so long.

Paul
Romney
Hunter/Thompson
Huckster

He fucked up by not being healthy during the race also. He was like a totally different person (one that kicked ass) at the convention.

Also, have you seen Huckabee's TV show? Worst 10 minutes of TV i've ever seen. Like ever. Worse than just watching commercials. It was like a spoof from family guy, only it was real.

[Virtra]

I just don't like his creepy mustache... plus I bet Obama could grow a killer goatee

[Vanno]

He fucked up by not being healthy during the race also. He was like a totally different person (one that kicked ass) at the convention.



I wasn't impressed by his Yokel inspired hootenanny convention speech myself, but then again I’m not moved by country colloquialisms. Personally, until a new generation of politicians enters the scene, on all sides of the political spectrum, I probably won’t be incredibly impressed. Even Ron Paul, who I admire, is arguing from a 19th, maybe 20th century perspective.

[Temet nosce]

There is also the problem that I don't think either McCain or Obama will be better than Bush. I can't vote for someone who is gonna be worse. Maybe if it were Fred Thompson I could stomach the lesser evil routine, but McCain is just so bad.

Heh, you're even more pessimistic than me. I think McCain might be nearly as bad, but at least he isn't Bush. Still, honestly the only reason I'm voting Obama is to keep McCain the fuck out.

I do however agree with a comment you made earlier that all those fucking additions Bush made to the government need to be gotten rid of, and that'd just be a good start. Sadly, neither candidate is going to do that.

[Slypieguy]

Heh, you're even more pessimistic than me. I think McCain might be nearly as bad, but at least he isn't Bush.

The issues where he disagrees with Bush are usually the rare occasions when Bush is actually correct :p Getting the government involved in global warming alarmism, for example.

[Temet nosce]

The issues where he disagrees with Bush are usually the rare occasions when Bush is actually correct :p Getting the government involved in global warming alarmism, for example.

I don't even want to think about that, the thing is I still have trouble superimposing "New and not at all improved McCain" over the old one. Who I actually used to kind of approve of. Particularly his marvelous new tax position. It also helps that I hate Bush a lot more than him.

Still, on the plus side I'm pretty sure he's lost. It may be vengeful of me, but damn am I glad that I don't think he'll win.

[gtechie]

Guys, guys, guys...

I submit that Obama and McCain are so similar on the main issues, that voting for either of them is throwing your vote away. These issues I'm considering are:
1) Foreign Policy
2) Privacy
3) The National Debt
4) The Federal Reserve

The strongest message can be sent to the Republicrat party by rejecting the faux two-party system. This can be accomplished by voting for one of the nonestablishment, principled candidates. Elections today are a charade, where Americans argue over stupid shit that doesn't matter in a candidate. The politicians realize that they personally have the most power when the policy doesn't shift radically from one election to the next, so they refuse to talk about the important issues. If they did, the American people would realize that there is no difference between the two, so there is no lesser of two evils (they are equally evil, if you want to say that).

Why not use your vote to give people like Barr and Baldwin (or Nader, or McKinney, or whoever displays your values best) more of a say in politics in the following years?

Stay with me, here. Think of it: you own an ice-cream shop on a beach. You have one competitor, who has identical products at identical prices. It would make sense for you both to set up at the 1/4 and 3/4 mark on this beach (imagine the beach as a number line) so that everybody can get to you equally. However, you realize that if you move a little bit towards the center of the beach, you'll grab customers from the other shop -- so you go ahead and move. But your opponent does, too. The two of you continue to move, little by little, so that your customers don't really notice it until you're right next to each other. In trying to maximize your customer base, you've created a situation in which some people are very happy (the ones sitting in the middle of the beach) and some are very upset (the ones who used to get good service but are now forced to walk a long way to reach you).

This is the current state of American politics -- the Repubilcans and Democrats have moved to the middle (how many times have we heard about McCain "reaching across the isle"?) and now a bunch of people are pissed with nowhere to cast our votes.

Instead of walking to the big ice cream shops in the center of the beach, why don't you go to the little guy trying to open up shop nearby?

[losinglife]

I'm with you Sly. I don't really even like Barr, but he will be getting my vote unles Chuck Baldwin can convince me otherwise when we meet for pancakes this Wednesday.

basically how i view it. Tho i doubt baldwin will be able to pull it out of his ass unless barr REALLY fucks up somewere.

Wich brings me to another point, wtf is he doing with his campaign???A?A!??!? i mean fo serious! Barr should be doing way better than he is, i havnt seen jack shit as far as his run for presidency. It seems as if he/lib party is just pissing this one away.

[losinglife]

Alan's debate performances were epic

Fred is a badass and supports a flat tax

huckabee wanted fair tax. Fair > flat.

Also he is full of lolz

[alfaroverall]

Well a similar chart was floating around during primary season that had every candidate but Ron Paul and Rudy Giuliani making significant increases in spending. I guess that one was biased too? Is it really that hard for you to accept that the 2 parties want the government to be more bloated, and by some chance maybe one of these insignificant 3rd parties would actually like to go in the opposite direction?
Rudy Giuliani had lower spending? How much lower? Or was it just a relatively insignificant increase (since you said he didn't have "significant increases in spending" planned)?

Serious question, I'm intrigued here.

Myself, I'd need to read more about Barr to vote for him. I think it was Surly that said that he tried really hard to support Barr but that his broken promises and so on jaded him towards even Barr.

It's kind of sad that Ron Paul is not willing to run as a non-Republican.

[Slypieguy]

Rudy Giuliani had lower spending? How much lower? Or was it just a relatively insignificant increase (since you said he didn't have "significant increases in spending" planned)?

Serious question, I'm intrigued here.

Myself, I'd need to read more about Barr to vote for him. I think it was Surly that said that he tried really hard to support Barr but that his broken promises and so on jaded him towards even Barr.

It's kind of sad that Ron Paul is not willing to run as a non-Republican.


The chart had Giuliani making a small spending cut, I wanna say it was around 5 billion. Paul's was around 150 I think. The rest of the candidates on both sides all had increases. I was pretty surprised by the Giuliani thing too.

I don't know of any broken Barr promises. Maybe you are just thinking of his past voting record.

[Slypieguy]

huckabee wanted fair tax. Fair > flat.

Also he is full of lolz

Huckabee is uber fiscal liberal (other than the fairtax) and uber social conservative, worst combo ever.

[Surly]

Well, SlyPie, I think I'm not going to. I'm just not going to vote. If some one asks me who to vote for, and it has happened and may continue to, I'll tell them Barr... but I don't think I'm ever going to vote again. Politics are increasingly becoming a fool's errand to me, as I am becoming more and more aware that the system cannot be changed with conventional methods... a conclusion I come to from studying the history of similar movements. It's all been done before, and it always winds up galvanizing the state even more. The gradual march of centralization, globalization, and taxation will not be stopped by any political method yet put forth, and until I hear one that will actually work I won't be doing anything but perhaps introducing people to the idea of living their lives without worrying about the government, but only if they ask, or in making idle chatter.

Global warming isn't the only thing that runs in natural cycles, and it appears the human species is far more singular and organic than I ever wanted to accept. But fuck it, that's life! Get a gun while you still can.

[losinglife]

Huckabee is uber fiscal liberal (other than the fairtax) and uber social conservative, worst combo ever.

well.... true i never said that. But he is still better than the Ghoul