We lose wars and can't complete objectives because of the media.

[NapalmEnema]

If we were allowed to conduct war as a war is supposed to be carried out we wouldn't still be in Iraq. If the media had been as far up our asses during WW2 as it is in this modern age, we'd all be speaking fucking German.

"Oh look that bomb hit a poor house a hundred yards off of target, let's form a giant inquisition, report about it, get the world at large to hate us for our operation, give the terrorist elements more fodder for their idiotic stances and make conducting a military operation as difficult as possible."

You win a war by fighting it like a war should be fought. You don't measure each strike and weigh out collateral damage :ohno: You bomb X grid and move on to the next, mow down the opposition and any civilians that are in the war zone and too stupid to leave or 'might' be unfriendly, and then you move on to the next sector.

You CRUSH your enemy, and if they attack you out of a Mosque, village, or hole in the ground - you FLATTEN said structure, area, or deploy enough bunker busters into said hole to ensure there are no enemies left.

We're so scared that the media spotlight will focus it's scathing beam on us that we have forgotten what it takes to win a fucking fight these days.

Who's the secondary target in a war zone? The mother fucker with a camera that is trying to put their bleeding vagina slant on the fight at hand and doesn't like what it takes to win a fucking fight. Jump on into the fray Geraldo, don't mind that missile heading for you - that's just the standard greeting we have for any of you media assfucks that make it your mission to ruin a perfectly good military campaign.

We won WW2 and the wars before it because we had the stones and will to do what was necessary to get the job done. Vietnam and conflicts after it were lost based on the media and it's impact on the people at home, the pressure it put on the politicians, and the day to day scrutiny of something that should be an entirely private matter for the armed forces to handle and carry out.

[Lethn]

I'm quite happy to hear this, frankly I wouldn't want nations to develop an excuse to blow up my house and then get away with it.

[Barbarossa]

Is it your daily goal to get flamed numerous times or something?

[Forgin]

Yeah, a real shame warcrimes are now reported

[NapalmEnema]

I'm quite happy to hear this, frankly I wouldn't want nations to develop an excuse to blow up my house and then get away with it.

If the media had as much power and tech in WW2 as they do now, we'd never have won that fight. Do you think the Germans were fretting about where a V2 rocket was landing in GB? LOL Get real.

You're the exact kind of person that shouldn't know what's going on in a conflict because you feel that a fight can be won by 'picking and choosing' each little piece of it. Why are there insurgents left in Iraq? Because we are so careful about trodding on a widdle toe here and there.

Congrats on contributing to the pussification of the planet and not facing reality - WAR IS HELL.

[NapalmEnema]

Yeah, a real shame warcrimes are now reported

You're missing the point.

[kordoyn]

Fuck, I hate agreeing with Enema.

[Lethn]

You're the exact kind of person that shouldn't know what's going on in a conflict because you feel that a fight can be won by 'picking and choosing' each little piece of it. Why are there insurgents left in Iraq? Because we are so careful about trodding on a widdle toe here and there.

You do realize that's how most military operations are organized right? Not senseless wars, they pick key targets and political figures to take out so the country is defeated, but now they're trying to occupy the damn place.

[Forgin]

If the media had as much power and tech in WW2 as they do now, we'd never have won that fight. Do you think the Germans were fretting about where a V2 rocket was landing in GB? LOL Get real.

You're the exact kind of person that shouldn't know what's going on in a conflict because you feel that a fight can be won by 'picking and choosing' each little piece of it. Why are there insurgents left in Iraq? Because we are so careful about trodding on a widdle toe here and there.

Congrats on contributing to the pussification of the planet and not facing reality - WAR IS HELL.

If you want to kill and destroy so badly, go sign up for the army and GO TO IRAQ and shoot the civilians, maybe you'll win the war.

[nathanpinard]

Let me guess, you think we should just nuke the shit out of Iran/Iraq?

[holychicken]

BS, we don't lose wars because of the media, we lose wars because people DON'T like war. If the people of a country don't think a war is justified, they will quickly turn on it.

WWII and WWI the losses were reported. Granted, the speed of communication was not as good as it was in Vietnam, but people still new that Americans were dying by the buttloads. The difference is that people felt the wars were justified and war weariness did not grow as rapidly.

[kordoyn]

Let me guess, you think we should just nuke the shit out of Iran/Iraq?

There's a difference between not wanting Media reporting about every grain of sand in their vag, and nuking the place.

[NapalmEnema]

You do realize that's how most military operations are organized right? Not senseless wars, they pick key targets and political figures to take out so the country is defeated, but now they're trying to occupy the damn place.

That's how they are organized in this day and age - that's now how they are won.

Look at history - Alexander the Great - do you think he would setup elephant roadblocks and be like :ohno: "k that person looks friendly - that guy might be holding a knife... search him" etc..

No, he dominated a population that he was invading, killed off the possible threats, and moved on. You actually think our current mode of operation is effective? LOL

That's the thing, it's people like you, weighing out the pro's and con's of 'innocent's' that make winning a military objective almost impossible for the USA. I bet you any amount of money that North Korea or Russia if they launched a campaign tomorrow would not hesitate to do what is necessary to win.

You're living in a dream world, and that's the point of this thread - most people don't get what it means to win a conflict - welcome to the PC world we live in today. (and why we are still in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc..)

[NapalmEnema]

Let me guess, you think we should just nuke the shit out of Iran/Iraq?

Nope, not at all. There are too many resources that would be squandered doing that. But this house to house 'Are you sure you're a good guy? yes? ok carry on...' then the guy turns around and blows you up the next day is absurd.

You crush a population, then rebuild. You don't hang out with the locals, most of which are hostile, and hope to overcome. That's just madness and why we are bleeding money and men every day in these half-ass wars we are waging.

[Forgin]

That's how they are organized in this day and age - that's now how they are won.

Look at history - Alexander the Great - do you think he would setup elephant roadblocks and be like :ohno: "k that person looks friendly - that guy might be holding a knife... search him" etc..

No, he dominated a population that he was invading, killed off the possible threats, and moved on. You actually think our current mode of operation is effective? LOL

That's the thing, it's people like you, weighing out the pro's and con's of 'innocent's' that make winning a military objective almost impossible for the USA. I bet you any amount of money that North Korea or Russia if they launched a campaign tomorrow would not hesitate to do what is necessary to win.

You're living in a dream world, and that's the point of this thread - most people don't get what it means to win a conflict - welcome to the PC world we live in today. (and why we are still in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc..)

Alexander the Great? yeah that dude really has relevance to our current world

[kordoyn]

That's the thing, it's people like you, weighing out the pro's and con's of 'innocent's' that make winning a military objective almost impossible for the USA. I bet you any amount of money that North Korea or Russia if they launched a campaign tomorrow would not hesitate to do what is necessary to win.



Like steamrolling over Georgia with 200 tanks, just for the lulz?

[Lethn]

lol your an idiot, the reason America is losing now isn't because of the media, it's because they're trying to occupy a country and fight a huge force that isn't there so they're gradually getting killed off, clearly you haven't learned anything from vietnam, if it was me I would have withdrawn the troops and instead let the iraqi's fight it out but leave a special forces team or something to help them out if they need it.

Actually for fucks sake, look up vietnam and the reason that alexander won was because Guerrilla warfare wasn't actually really used at the time and no one really had the means or the knowledge to properly use it against such a large force so it was just a case of zerg vs. zerg.

The reason people win is BECAUSE they weigh out the objectives, all these nations have eventually failed because they got too cocky for their own good and ended up trying to take over countries that hated them to the core so they ended up fighting the entire population rather than just the army.

And this is exactly what is happening with Iraq and is what is happening with Vietnam, if they actually kept their promises and let the people live in relative peace then there would be a lot less casualties than there are now.

I knew I had you on my ignore list for a reason, your a dumbass.

[NapalmEnema]

BS, we don't lose wars because of the media, we lose wars because people DON'T like war. If the people of a country don't think a war is justified, they will quickly turn on it.

WWII and WWI the losses were reported. Granted, the speed of communication was not as good as it was in Vietnam, but people still new that Americans were dying by the buttloads. The difference is that people felt the wars were justified and war weariness did not grow as rapidly.

They heard our losses, but the media wasn't some liberal assfuck pool of people posting constant stories about 'Hay this poor French family was blown to bits by a howitzer round that wasn't targeted properly. An investigation should be launched against the colonel on the ground!!'

The media is vastly different now than it was then. Then it was not a sensationalistic pile of shit that just reported shit to make trouble. They even had a moral compass of sorts and didn't hate their country. Now? They RELISH the thought of a new juicy story to drop that castigates anything regarding military operations or will show how horrible war is. They are so pussified they forget what it took to earn them the very freedoms they use to tear down the country they live in.

[NapalmEnema]

Like steamrolling over Georgia with 200 tanks, just for the lulz?

Wait till Russia actually does follow through with a military operation - trust me that was just them stretching their muscles. And they didn't give a FUCK about the world media - so my point is vaild. :)

[Mo0rbid]

What do you mean with "we lose wars", FFS man don't act all arrogant this is a global forum after all

[Forgin]

Wait till Russia actually does follow through with a military operation - trust me that was just them stretching their muscles. And they didn't give a FUCK about the world media - so my point is vaild. :)

Yes but when Russia fucks us, and the USA will fight back, then the media will all be on our side and not mind us blowing Russians to bits.
Like WW2

[Yobaj]

Yeah, that damn media covering a war based on lies!

[NapalmEnema]

Alexander the Great? yeah that dude really has relevance to our current world

War is war - the only thing that changes is the tech. To say that a conflict regardless of age, is irrelevant when talking about tactics and how to win an invasion is a bit naive.

[NapalmEnema]

What do you mean with "we lose wars", FFS man don't act all arrogant this is a global forum after all

Apologies for that, I guess the title should be more geared towards the US since that's what I am primarily talking about, and where i currently reside.

[Tdog]

Let me guess, you think we should just nuke the shit out of Iran/Iraq?

No Nobody in there right mind wants to see a nuke used again. The next time some uses a Nuke the world of humans will be over.

What he is saying is that the media is report on every attack no matter how small or large. He is saying that because of this reporting the Military is trying to fight a war while walking on egg shells. It just doesnt work that way.

In WWII we carpet bombed cities, we killed civilians and military but it was okay but if we did that today it would cause a shit storm that our military would not survive.

I think the media needs to stop being allowed into war zones until after it is over. We cannot run a war and expect to win when we are fighting both our enemy and the media.

[Schmaus]

If we were allowed to conduct war as a war is supposed to be carried out we wouldn't still be in Iraq. If the media had been as far up our asses during WW2 as it is in this modern age, we'd all be speaking fucking German.

"Oh look that bomb hit a poor house a hundred yards off of target, let's form a giant inquisition, report about it, get the world at large to hate us for our operation, give the terrorist elements more fodder for their idiotic stances and make conducting a military operation as difficult as possible."

You win a war by fighting it like a war should be fought. You don't measure each strike and weigh out collateral damage :ohno: You bomb X grid and move on to the next, mow down the opposition and any civilians that are in the war zone and too stupid to leave or 'might' be unfriendly, and then you move on to the next sector.

You CRUSH your enemy, and if they attack you out of a Mosque, village, or hole in the ground - you FLATTEN said structure, area, or deploy enough bunker busters into said hole to ensure there are no enemies left.

We're so scared that the media spotlight will focus it's scathing beam on us that we have forgotten what it takes to win a fucking fight these days.

Who's the secondary target in a war zone? The mother fucker with a camera that is trying to put their bleeding vagina slant on the fight at hand and doesn't like what it takes to win a fucking fight. Jump on into the fray Geraldo, don't mind that missile heading for you - that's just the standard greeting we have for any of you media assfucks that make it your mission to ruin a perfectly good military campaign.

We won WW2 and the wars before it because we had the stones and will to do what was necessary to get the job done. Vietnam and conflicts after it were lost based on the media and it's impact on the people at home, the pressure it put on the politicians, and the day to day scrutiny of something that should be an entirely private matter for the armed forces to handle and carry out.

to say it in the wise and straightforward words of Ron Paul.

"We should never have gone to Iraq in the first place"

Also making a thread on how you dont care about people being bombed is kinda scary.
I guess your one of those true christians

[klokateer #7829]

Napalm, you're forgetting that our country is worried about things other than winning this war.

Media coverage is ruining the way we conduct war... but without it, our military would be allowed to commit crimes that would hurt us even worse in the long run.

So we win and Iraq is liberated. 6 months later, specific instances are leaked and proven to be true that cause us to lose our membership with the UN, the trading faculties of the world, etc.

What happens then? Allied countries begin to hate us even more, hostile countries urge their collaborators to attack us on our home turf, our economy tanks and the American way of life is potentially wiped from the face of Earth because we just had to win in Iraq by any means necessary.

No thanks.

[Yobaj]

War is war - the only thing that changes is the tech. To say that a conflict regardless of age, is irrelevant when talking about tactics and how to win an invasion is a bit naive.
You know that Alexander the Great actually forgave those who begged for mercy and rebuilt or even improved the places he conquered? They actually liked him because even though he introduced alot of greek culture, he let the people who lived there stay with their own culture, and people though that that was cool and mixed the cultures.

[Killuminati]

Borang

[Nasty]

Yeah, shut down the media. WTB more police state / dictatorship.

You're about to get it anyhow. Last 8 years has been nothing short of a prep.

[Vexrak]

If we were allowed to conduct war as a war is supposed to be carried out we wouldn't still be in Iraq. If the media had been as far up our asses during WW2 as it is in this modern age, we'd all be speaking fucking German.

"Oh look that bomb hit a poor house a hundred yards off of target, let's form a giant inquisition, report about it, get the world at large to hate us for our operation, give the terrorist elements more fodder for their idiotic stances and make conducting a military operation as difficult as possible."

You win a war by fighting it like a war should be fought. You don't measure each strike and weigh out collateral damage :ohno: You bomb X grid and move on to the next, mow down the opposition and any civilians that are in the war zone and too stupid to leave or 'might' be unfriendly, and then you move on to the next sector.

You CRUSH your enemy, and if they attack you out of a Mosque, village, or hole in the ground - you FLATTEN said structure, area, or deploy enough bunker busters into said hole to ensure there are no enemies left.

We're so scared that the media spotlight will focus it's scathing beam on us that we have forgotten what it takes to win a fucking fight these days.

Who's the secondary target in a war zone? The mother fucker with a camera that is trying to put their bleeding vagina slant on the fight at hand and doesn't like what it takes to win a fucking fight. Jump on into the fray Geraldo, don't mind that missile heading for you - that's just the standard greeting we have for any of you media assfucks that make it your mission to ruin a perfectly good military campaign.

We won WW2 and the wars before it because we had the stones and will to do what was necessary to get the job done. Vietnam and conflicts after it were lost based on the media and it's impact on the people at home, the pressure it put on the politicians, and the day to day scrutiny of something that should be an entirely private matter for the armed forces to handle and carry out.

You are a fucking idiot there was no reason to go to war with Iraq PERIOD end of fucking story. They were not a threat to us, they had nothing to do with 9/11, and it was a complete and utter waste of resources and lives. I am GLAD the media has been bitching about it we need to get the fuck out of there before more of our brave soldiers and their innocent civilians die for no goddamn reason.

Some people try to claim that people like me who want to bring our troops home don't support them. Well to that I say simply, HOW CAN I SUPPORT YOU ANYMORE THAN BY TRYING TO BRING YOU HOME AND KEEP YOU FROM DIEING NEEDLESSLY IN A POINTLESS WAR DESIGNED BY BUSH AND CHENEY TO BOTH MAKE A PROFIT AND TRY TO SOME HOW FINISH WHAT HIS FATHER STARTED THAT HAS NO END IN SIGHT?!

And to those mothers of soldiers who have died who say "don't let my son have died for no reason" all i have to say is I am sorry for your loss, but the only thing you are doing by saying things like that is somehow justifying a war that should not be occurring. Do you really want MORE mothers to have to suffer the way you are?

Get the fuck out of there by any means necessary. You wanna call it cutting and running? That's fine by me victory in this situation can't even be defined let alone achieved, this is the Vietnam of the 21st century. Get our troops out as fast as safety allows.

It's time to cut our losses.

[Barbarossa]

Apologies for that, I guess the title should be more geared towards the US since that's what I am primarily talking about, and where i currently reside.


He's not sorry, he posted this to enflame in order to get flamed.

Sad when an attention whore resorts to this behavior.


Just sit back and wait for the perma-ban to strike...

[Forgin]

War is war - the only thing that changes is the tech. To say that a conflict regardless of age, is irrelevant when talking about tactics and how to win an invasion is a bit naive.

Well Alexander's action were based on conquering the entire world, with any force neccesary.
Last time I checked the US went to Iraq to free the people from Saddam and bring democracy, 'Iraqi Freedom' remember?

[NapalmEnema]

No Nobody in there right mind wants to see a nuke used again. The next time some uses a Nuke the world of humans will be over.

What he is saying is that the media is report on every attack no matter how small or large. He is saying that because of this reporting the Military is trying to fight a war while walking on egg shells. It just doesnt work that way.

In WWII we carpet bombed cities, we killed civilians and military but it was okay but if we did that today it would cause a shit storm that our military would not survive.

I think the media needs to stop being allowed into war zones until after it is over. We cannot run a war and expect to win when we are fighting both our enemy and the media.


You get it, awesome post mang. :)

[Tdog]

You know that Alexander the Great actually forgave those who begged for mercy and rebuilt or even improved the places he conquered? They actually liked him because even though he introduced alot of greek culture, he let the people who lived there stay with their own culture, and people though that that was cool and mixed the cultures.

Wow are you this dumb? We rebuilt Germany and Japan after winning the war. Get a fucking clue before you post please.

[NapalmEnema]

to say it in the wise and straightforward words of Ron Paul.

"We should never have gone to Iraq in the first place"

Also making a thread on how you dont care about people being bombed is kinda scary.
I guess your one of those true christians

Please don't infect this thread with your idiocy.

I'm not Christian, this wasn't specifically about Iraq or the reasons behind it.

Good day and find another thread to play in.

[Forgin]

Wow are you this dumb? We rebuilt Germany and Japan after winning the war. Get a fucking clue before you post please.

We are not talking about WW2 so leave it out, the media was on our side back then no matter what.

[tallefred]

I agree with you in a sense, but you're missing the other part- the media reports what people want to hear. If Americans loved the war in Iraq we'd be hearing about how our glorious army is defeating the evil foe on all fronts. Since we don't like the war, we get stories of the trillions of marines dying and pictures of mothers holding their dead kids.

The thing is though, there's a reason people don't like the war. There's a reason that people didn't like the Vietnam war. We don't have any business being involved in a fight with Iraq. We had a reason to invade Afghanistan, and if I recall correctly, (I was young at the time) no one complained about that. WWI and WWII, these were cases where America itself was in danger (regardless of whatever conspiracy theory you heard about HOW America entered said wars, there was a threat). Vietnam? Trying to halt the spread of communism... I hear that in a way, but not really. America has turned into Team America World Police (I hated that movie, but the point is true enough), and the American people are sick of it.

Tl;dr: Don't blame the media. They tell you what you want to hear. If you liked the war, so would they.

[Nasty]

Please don't infect this thread with your idiocy.

I'm not Christian, this wasn't specifically about Iraq or the reasons behind it.

Good day and find another thread to play in.

You do realize you're the village idiot in this thread?

Although media can be a fucking pain in the ass on a number of topics, the whole argument you are making is shit.

[NapalmEnema]

He's not sorry, he posted this to enflame in order to get flamed.

Sad when an attention whore resorts to this behavior.


Just sit back and wait for the perma-ban to strike...

This is the LAST TIME I'm going to respond to you.

Me having an opinion or original thought and wanting to make a fucking thread about it is my fucking business. Stop gaying up my fucking threads with your baseless fucking accusations and lack of anything more productive to do than troll me and insult my intentions.

You don't like me? FUCKING IGNORE ME YOU COCK SMOKING ASSMONKEY

Not that fucking hard. I don't like you - you don't like me. Get a life and find something more to do than ride my dick all day long. Don't you have a pig to slaughter or something?

[Forgin]

This is the LAST TIME I'm going to respond to you.



No it isn't

[Barbarossa]

You do realize you're the village idiot in this thread?

He doesn't...let him continue on his merry way.

We can all laugh at him when he gets wtfpwnt by the mods...again.

[Schmaus]

That's how they are organized in this day and age - that's now how they are won.

Look at history - Alexander the Great - do you think he would setup elephant roadblocks and be like :ohno: "k that person looks friendly - that guy might be holding a knife... search him" etc..

No, he dominated a population that he was invading, killed off the possible threats, and moved on. You actually think our current mode of operation is effective? LOL

That's the thing, it's people like you, weighing out the pro's and con's of 'innocent's' that make winning a military objective almost impossible for the USA. I bet you any amount of money that North Korea or Russia if they launched a campaign tomorrow would not hesitate to do what is necessary to win.

You're living in a dream world, and that's the point of this thread - most people don't get what it means to win a conflict - welcome to the PC world we live in today. (and why we are still in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc..)


so you saying kill all those opposing you.

your (and me ) are the ones living in a dreamworld where we can debate the effects of war.

just for one sec imagine if war was in USA ,if your town is bombed and you got some maniacs pumped with dope and brainwashed to kill , running around itching to kill some towelheads.

Its fucking great media is showing the world about war ,its a fucking shame people just dont give a shit about others anymore.

Gtfo of Iraq and your problem is solved.

I mean WTF , the first thing that was done in IRAQ is secure the FUCKING OIL

THAT WAS THE PRIORITY , are you friggin blind.

IF media didnt show us that , well then we could all believe they went in peacefully and US marines got attacked on a peacemission

[NapalmEnema]

You do realize you're the village idiot in this thread?

Although media can be a fucking pain in the ass on a number of topics, the whole argument you are making is shit.

That's your opinion, my OP and premise is sound. I believe that the media is responsible for a lot of problems in this day and age. The ability to effectively wage a military campaign is chief among them. I don't feel like touching on their other impacts in this thread, but they definitely cause more harm than good at this time.

[Tdog]

We are not talking about WW2 so leave it out, the media was on our side back then no matter what.

But its okay for him to use Alexander the Great as an example? WTF.

[NapalmEnema]

so you saying kill all those opposing you.

your (and me ) are the ones living in a dreamworld where we can debate the effects of war.

just for one sec imagine if war was in USA ,if your town is bombed and you got some maniacs pumped with dope and brainwashed to kill , running around itching to kill some towelheads.

Its fucking great media is showing the world about war ,its a fucking shame people just dont give a shit about others anymore.

Gtfo of Iraq and your problem is solved.

I mean WTF , the first thing that was done in IRAQ is secure the FUCKING OIL

THAT WAS THE PRIORITY , are you friggin blind.

IF media didnt show us that , well then we could all believe they went in peacefully and US marines got attacked on a peacemission

THIS THREAD AND THE OP ISN'T ABOUT IRAQ. YOU DREW THAT CONCLUSION. I DIDN'T MAKE THIS TO TALK ABOUT IRAQ, THE REASONS FOR BEING THERE, OR THE NEED TO PULL OUT.

This is about the media, and it's impacts on the ability to wage effective military campaigns.

[Yobaj]

Wow are you this dumb? We rebuilt Germany and Japan after winning the war. Get a fucking clue before you post please.
Eh, who is the slow one?

I just wanted to update NapalmEnemas view of Alexander, he wasn't a barbaric conqueror like Gengis Khan. Alexander wasn't a brute. So what the fuck are you talking about?


But its okay for him to use Alexander the Great as an example? WTF.
I didn't bring that up, it was NapalmEnema who mentioned Alexander the Great like if he was some sort of brute.

[Forgin]

But its okay for him to use Alexander the Great as an example? WTF.

If you would have paid attention you would have seen that I also moved that example to my garbage bin

[Forgin]

THIS THREAD AND THE OP ISN'T ABOUT IRAQ. YOU DREW THAT CONCLUSION. I DIDN'T MAKE THIS TO TALK ABOUT IRAQ, THE REASONS FOR BEING THERE, OR THE NEED TO PULL OUT.

This is about the media, and it's impacts on the ability to wage effective military campaigns.

It is the people that wage effective military campaigns, it's just the media that spreads the news.

[Schmaus]

Please don't infect this thread with your idiocy.

I'm not Christian, this wasn't specifically about Iraq or the reasons behind it.

Good day and find another thread to play in.

your a cruel bastard

using Napalm in your username just shows how much you enjoyed the massive napalm bombings in Vietnam.

"How else am i going to get those vc buggers hiding in holes?"

You dont give a shit about other people.

I hope for your sake you never have to experience the horrors of war. Though it would be a good life lesson for you instead of whining how media is influencing the extent of cruelty in a war.

You got retard logic mixed with a egocentric i dont give a fuck attitude.

Dangerous mix.

[Marelt]

Wow, Napalm you just described exactly how i feel.
"All is fair in love and war" Can't remember who said it but it is too the point.
fuck I always wondered why the states didn't just pull out some of their extra weapons from ages ago and carpet bomb any region with terrorists in it...

[klokateer #7829]

It is the people that wage effective military campaigns, it's just the media that spreads the news.

This is extremely naive.

The media controls how the people think. When the news reports how terrible the war is going everyone makes it a point to put more pressure on the military which directly influences our success on various campaigns.

[Schmaus]

THIS THREAD AND THE OP ISN'T ABOUT IRAQ. YOU DREW THAT CONCLUSION. I DIDN'T MAKE THIS TO TALK ABOUT IRAQ, THE REASONS FOR BEING THERE, OR THE NEED TO PULL OUT.

This is about the media, and it's impacts on the ability to wage effective military campaigns.

HOW stupid are you ?

Do you really think media is influencing the wars ???

Do you think military command gives a fuck about it?

Do you really believe they shouldnt film casue the world shouldnt see a whole town bombed to shreds because there was 'one ' target there?

Do you really think media decides on the succes of a war.?

Your an evil fucker

[Forgin]

This is extremely naive.

The media controls how the people think. When the news reports how terrible the war is going everyone makes it a point to put more pressure on the military which directly influences our success on various campaigns.

Yes but that also works the other way around.
If everyone is against the war, then nobody will watch a news show reporting how we killed 5000 of those bastards.
If everyone loves the war and is behind it, then the media can show the 10000 dead bastards and they will get more viewers.

[NapalmEnema]

This is extremely naive.

The media controls how the people think. When the news reports how terrible the war is going everyone makes it a point to put more pressure on the military which directly influences our success on various campaigns.

Exactly.

In WW2 the media wasn't anti-American or it's policies so naturally we were all 'YAY WAR'

In this day and age they are the most liberal assbags ever. While I can conceded that Iraq didn't need to happen, they apply the same liberal BS to Afghanistan which should be supported and our troops efforts not scrutinized and nit-picked.

But instead, in that legitimate endeavor, we get constant reports (when it's vogue to report on it) about some jackass family that got blown up accidentally when a munition that cost more than their village to make goes slightly astray. We spend BILLIONS in our attempts to make the most reliable and precise weapons but still get nailed to the wall when something minor goes wrong.

[Marelt]

This is extremely naive.

The media controls how the people think. When the news reports how terrible the war is going everyone makes it a point to put more pressure on the military which directly influences our success on various campaigns.

Exactly, you can't win a fucking war without public support. Well you can if you don't give a flying fuck what everyone thinks. I mean honestly look at the Russia/Georgia Conflict, they took out a lot of fucking ground in barely any time at all because they just bombed whatever they thought was a threat. I'm not saying i supported that war but they were pretty fucking effective.

[Porthios]

Look, the second we step into a situation where we are actually threatened as a nation, nobody is going to give two shits about blowing away 50 million civilian homes. Being able to concentrate on this sort of shit now is a luxury that we won't always have. Someday we'll be suing our government not being efficient enough because they are are avoiding civilian casualties.

[klokateer #7829]

Yes but that also works the other way around.
If everyone is against the war, then nobody will watch a news show reporting how we killed 5000 of those bastards.
If everyone loves the war and is behind it, then the media can show the 10000 dead bastards and they will get more viewers.

You're right. However, with the way the media is currently, we'll never see the 10,000 evil dead guy cover story.

We'll see the "3 Americans killed!" cover story.

The problem is, people tend to forget that enlistees are told YOU MIGHT DIE IF YOU SIGN UP WITH US and agree anyway.

If the media spent more time reporting on our success during wartime, we'd be much better off than reporting on our failures.

[jonyak]

the fact that we are even having this discussion show how truly fucked up humans are.

we need to be irradicated. we are a fucking open sore on the world.

[Schmaus]

That's your opinion, my OP and premise is sound. I believe that the media is responsible for a lot of problems in this day and age. The ability to effectively wage a military campaign is chief among them. I don't feel like touching on their other impacts in this thread, but they definitely cause more harm than good at this time.

your OP and premise are so wrong .

Media has a huge influence that is true.

But to blame an non effective military campaign on media is utter stupidity.

MEdia is to blame FOR STARTING A WAR , not its effectivity, military command does not give a fuck ,

and if you condole no media coverage so everything can happen in war, rape , shooting children for fun , bombing a whole to to ruin , gassin people is ok for you , then you are one sick puppy that needs help.

You cannot compare WWI and II to any other wars since then. It was a world war with great stakes.My family lived in bombed citys , they were bombed by germans ,english and usa.


Vietnam, horrendous napalm bombing to kill VC ,
Iraq Bagdad ,a city with more history art and culture than the whole USA , bombed 14 days in a row.

This was all covered in media. most people didnt give a shit , some people , prob like you cheered at it .

You say it has nothing to do with Iraq , then what wars are you talking about ????

[holychicken]

There's a difference between not wanting Media reporting about every grain of sand in their vag, and nuking the place.
Yeah, damn that freedom of the press! What were the founding fathers thinking!

[Barbarossa]

If we were allowed to conduct war as a war is supposed to be carried out we wouldn't still be in Iraq. If the media had been as far up our asses during WW2 as it is in this modern age, we'd all be speaking fucking German.

"Oh look that bomb hit a poor house a hundred yards off of target, let's form a giant inquisition, report about it, get the world at large to hate us for our operation, give the terrorist elements more fodder for their idiotic stances and make conducting a military operation as difficult as possible."

You win a war by fighting it like a war should be fought. You don't measure each strike and weigh out collateral damage :ohno: You bomb X grid and move on to the next, mow down the opposition and any civilians that are in the war zone and too stupid to leave or 'might' be unfriendly, and then you move on to the next sector.

You CRUSH your enemy, and if they attack you out of a Mosque, village, or hole in the ground - you FLATTEN said structure, area, or deploy enough bunker busters into said hole to ensure there are no enemies left.

We're so scared that the media spotlight will focus it's scathing beam on us that we have forgotten what it takes to win a fucking fight these days.

Who's the secondary target in a war zone? The mother fucker with a camera that is trying to put their bleeding vagina slant on the fight at hand and doesn't like what it takes to win a fucking fight. Jump on into the fray Geraldo, don't mind that missile heading for you - that's just the standard greeting we have for any of you media assfucks that make it your mission to ruin a perfectly good military campaign.

We won WW2 and the wars before it because we had the stones and will to do what was necessary to get the job done. Vietnam and conflicts after it were lost based on the media and it's impact on the people at home, the pressure it put on the politicians, and the day to day scrutiny of something that should be an entirely private matter for the armed forces to handle and carry out.

THIS THREAD AND THE OP ISN'T ABOUT IRAQ. YOU DREW THAT CONCLUSION. I DIDN'T MAKE THIS TO TALK ABOUT IRAQ, THE REASONS FOR BEING THERE, OR THE NEED TO PULL OUT.



It's not? Says it right in the first paragraph: IRAQ

You threw in WW2 and Vietnam as well, guess your post has nothing to do about that either but there all three are in the quote.

You're so fucking retarded you can't even remember what you write in your own posts.

Jesus, somebody put this moron out of his misery please.

[jonyak]

why are americans so obsessed with war and killing?

[Schmaus]

Exactly.

In WW2 the media wasn't anti-American or it's policies so naturally we were all 'YAY WAR'

In this day and age they are the most liberal assbags ever. While I can conceded that Iraq didn't need to happen, they apply the same liberal BS to Afghanistan which should be supported and our troops efforts not scrutinized and nit-picked.

But instead, in that legitimate endeavor, we get constant reports (when it's vogue to report on it) about some jackass family that got blown up accidentally when a munition that cost more than their village to make goes slightly astray. We spend BILLIONS in our attempts to make the most reliable and precise weapons but still get nailed to the wall when something minor goes wrong.


the way you condescend the people living in a town that cost less than your precious weapon, how you spend billions to perfect precise weapons. but still get nailed???

What war are you refering to???

and what fucking influence will people have against this ,

Millions and millions of people protested against the war in Iraq , afghanistan , Vietnam , etc ,
but doesnt matter shit if government decides. Only thing you can do is wait till the 4 year term is over.

A lot of people in the world lost alot of faith in USA when Bush got reelected.

Its the media in USA that convinced going to war was ok.

[holychicken]

They heard our losses, but the media wasn't some liberal assfuck pool of people posting constant stories about 'Hay this poor French family was blown to bits by a howitzer round that wasn't targeted properly. An investigation should be launched against the colonel on the ground!!'
It has nothing to do with "liberal." The media is a BUSINESS it is PROFIT driven. That kind of stuff makes money, and that is why they are doing it. Well, maybe you consider "freedom of the press" to be "liberal assfuck," I consider it to be vital to a democracy.

The media is vastly different now than it was then. Then it was not a sensationalistic pile of shit that just reported shit to make trouble. They even had a moral compass of sorts and didn't hate their country. Now? They RELISH the thought of a new juicy story to drop that castigates anything regarding military operations or will show how horrible war is. They are so pussified they forget what it took to earn them the very freedoms they use to tear down the country they live in.
Then your problem is not with a liberal media, but with capitalism. I agree with you that a profit driven media does have a serious problem, but the problem is not with its political leanings, it is its desire to make as much money for its investors.

[holychicken]

War is war - the only thing that changes is the tech. To say that a conflict regardless of age, is irrelevant when talking about tactics and how to win an invasion is a bit naive.
This whole post is talking about how the media is different. . . from only 50 years ago!!!! and how that is influencing wars. If you cannot see that waging a war is VASTLY different than it was centuries ago I am afraid it is you who is naive, not the other way around.

[Schmaus]

Please? I'm not responding to you for a reason. You totally miss the point, you're insulting, and apparently can't read.

Please - put me on ignore - and LEAVE ME ALONE.

Thank you.


this dude just pm me to say to get out of his thread???

he comes on offtopic and says how he dislikes war because it hinders his precious war of being commited to the fullest and cruellest then asks me to not reply to his stupidity and evil banter???

This dude got some serious issues

[NapalmEnema]

It has nothing to do with "liberal." The media is a BUSINESS it is PROFIT driven. That kind of stuff makes money, and that is why they are doing it. Well, maybe you consider "freedom of the press" to be "liberal assfuck," I consider it to be vital to a democracy.


Then your problem is not with a liberal media, but with capitalism. I agree with you that a profit driven media does have a serious problem, but the problem is not with its political leanings, it is its desire to make as much money for its investors.

Very true, that could be the motivating factors behind it, but the damage it does because of that is still the same. Yes, sensationalisitc journalism sells better than anything, but at some point it saddens me that the media doesn't have a moral compass whatsoever. They just are in it for the money, and don't give a fuck about the damage that mode of operation causes.

Reporting incessantly on school shootings is another example of harm the media causes. If they didn't give those shooters their '15 minutes' of fame, school shootings wouldn't keep on happening. But because they validate the act and show the impact the deed caused, another trench coat wearing outcast figures it's not a bad idea to show the world how much they are hurting - so they are then noticed for a brief moment as well.

[NapalmEnema]

This whole post is talking about how the media is different. . . from only 50 years ago!!!! and how that is influencing wars. If you cannot see that waging a war is VASTLY different than it was centuries ago I am afraid it is you who is naive, not the other way around.

How to actually win a war hasn't changed in eons. The media being all up in everyone's shit prevents that from happening, and has gotten progressively worse since Vietnam and beyond.

[Tdog]

The point the OP was making is simple and if you dont agree with it that is fine but to call him an idiot for is views is just stupid.

The point that the OP is trying to make as far as I know is that the Media is causing our military to fight a war and at the sametime trying to make sure they dont piss anyone off which is just about impossiable when fighting a war.


War is a very ugly thing. It will always be an ugly thing as it should be, we cannot force our military to fight a war that cannot piss off anyone. Its just not fair or right to ask our military to fight that kind of war.

We are basicly telling our soldiers they are not allowed to shot first, they have to be shot at before they can return fire. How do you think that makes our soldiers feel?

[holychicken]

Very true, that could be the motivating factors behind it, but the damage it does because of that is still the same. Yes, sensationalisitc journalism sells better than anything, but at some point it saddens me that the media doesn't have a moral compass whatsoever. They just are in it for the money, and don't give a fuck about the damage that mode of operation causes.

Reporting incessantly on school shootings is another example of harm the media causes. If they didn't give those shooters their '15 minutes' of fame, school shootings wouldn't keep on happening. But because they validate the act and show the impact the deed caused, another trench coat wearing outcast figures it's not a bad idea to show the world how much they are hurting - so they are then noticed for a brief moment as well.
The media should not have any type of moral compass. It should report the facts and nothing more and let us make a decision on which way is up.

Basically, you want the media to hide the truth in some cases because YOU don't like the outcome of it. What about all the peaceniks who don't like war? The truth that you want to hide leads to what they believe is right. Who gets to decide what is right?

Getting all the facts is vital to a democracy. . . what you want IS a biased media and/or even some kind of fascist control of the media (It was you who said that they should be banned from war zones until it is over, correct?)

[jonyak]

The point the OP was making is simple and if you dont agree with it that is fine but to call him an idiot for is views is just stupid.

The point that the OP is trying to make as far as I know is that the Media is causing our military to fight a war and at the sametime trying to make sure they dont piss anyone off which is just about impossiable when fighting a war.


War is a very ugly thing. It will always be an ugly thing as it should be, we cannot force our military to fight a war that cannot piss off anyone. Its just not fair or right to ask our military to fight that kind of war.

We are basicly telling our soldiers they are not allowed to shot first, they have to be shot at before they can return fire. How do you think that makes our soldiers feel?

why should they shoot first?

last I heard they are not on the offensive... thats when you shoot first.

[NapalmEnema]

The point the OP was making is simple and if you dont agree with it that is fine but to call him an idiot for is views is just stupid.

The point that the OP is trying to make as far as I know is that the Media is causing our military to fight a war and at the sametime trying to make sure they dont piss anyone off which is just about impossiable when fighting a war.


War is a very ugly thing. It will always be an ugly thing as it should be, we cannot force our military to fight a war that cannot piss off anyone. Its just not fair or right to ask our military to fight that kind of war.

We are basicly telling our soldiers they are not allowed to shot first, they have to be shot at before they can return fire. How do you think that makes our soldiers feel?

Thanks for reading and comprehending. :)

[NapalmEnema]

The media should not have any type of moral compass. It should report the facts and nothing more and let us make a decision on which way is up.

Basically, you want the media to hide the truth in some cases because YOU don't like the outcome of it. What about all the peaceniks who don't like war? The truth that you want to hide leads to what they believe is right. Who gets to decide what is right?

Getting all the facts is vital to a democracy. . . what you want IS a biased media and/or even some kind of fascist control of the media (It was you who said that they should be banned from war zones until it is over, correct?)

But they choose which facts to report, and only focus on headlines and stories that will sell more - stories of strife or pieces about how bad 'X' is etc.. So they are 'reporting' the facts, without a moral compass, but their agenda and 'what sells' predicates what they are giving everyone to read. So they may not be using a moral compass, but they are choosing what to report according to their own agenda at the end of the day.

[jonyak]

But they choose which facts to report, and only focus on headlines and stories that will sell more - stories of strife or pieces about how bad 'X' is etc.. So they are 'reporting' the facts, without a moral compass, but their agenda and 'what sells' predicates what they are giving everyone to read. So they may not be using a moral compass, but they are choosing what to report according to their own agenda at the end of the day.

the alternative is state controled media.

we all know how that turns out.

[Schmaus]

on special request from Napalm

If we were allowed to conduct war as a war is supposed to be carried out we wouldn't still be in Iraq. If the media had been as far up our asses during WW2 as it is in this modern age, we'd all be speaking fucking German.


So you saying (instead of NEVER going to Iraq) USA should be allowed to bomb the shit out of the whole country even more than they did already , and then you would win the war??
If its media stopping that i am fucking glad there is media (in that case atleast)


"Oh look that bomb hit a poor house a hundred yards off of target, let's form a giant inquisition, report about it, get the world at large to hate us for our operation, give the terrorist elements more fodder for their idiotic stances and make conducting a military operation as difficult as possible."

So you are saying its the medias fault more terrorists come and not the fact that you just bombed the shit out of someones family and they lost their wife , child and mother at the same time?


You win a war by fighting it like a war should be fought. You don't measure each strike and weigh out collateral damage :ohno: You bomb X grid and move on to the next, mow down the opposition and any civilians that are in the war zone and too stupid to leave or 'might' be unfriendly, and then you move on to the next sector.

You really want every city you are at war with bombed to shreds , kill anyone in your way.

What is your goal again ?

Looks like your an evil fucker that just wants random destruction.


You CRUSH your enemy, and if they attack you out of a Mosque, village, or hole in the ground - you FLATTEN said structure, area, or deploy enough bunker busters into said hole to ensure there are no enemies left.

Kill them all , bomb them all. How dare people defend their homes , how dare people fight invaders , KILL THEM AND BOMB THEM TO SHIT



We're so scared that the media spotlight will focus it's scathing beam on us that we have forgotten what it takes to win a fucking fight these days.

No media freedom for you cause they might interupt with your precious bloodshed.?
You dont want your mom walking in when your looking at kiddy porn?


Who's the secondary target in a war zone? The mother fucker with a camera that is trying to put their bleeding vagina slant on the fight at hand and doesn't like what it takes to win a fucking fight. Jump on into the fray Geraldo, don't mind that missile heading for you - that's just the standard greeting we have for any of you media assfucks that make it your mission to ruin a perfectly good military campaign.

.....a perfectly good military campaign????

so the reason you failed is because of media??

lol, moron³²³³²


We won WW2 and the wars before it because we had the stones and will to do what was necessary to get the job done. Vietnam and conflicts after it were lost based on the media and it's impact on the people at home, the pressure it put on the politicians, and the day to day scrutiny of something that should be an entirely private matter for the armed forces to handle and carry out.


you saying using NAPALM on whole jungles wasnt enough and you lost Vietnam because of Media???

Omfg stupidity of some people;


i insult you because you insult billions of people with your prokilling anti truthrevealing position.

[holychicken]

How to actually win a war hasn't changed in eons. The media being all up in everyone's shit prevents that from happening, and has gotten progressively worse since Vietnam and beyond.
You couldn't be more wrong. War isn't just about killing more of your enemy than they kill of you. Morale of the people/troops has always been a big thing in every war. Communication has changed drastically over time and it is a major factor in the morale of the troops and the people.

One of the major factors of war has changed drastically over time. To pretend that that has not changed how wars are won doesn't make sense. If you strip that away and only look at the killing, you are correct, but you must ignore a major part of every conflict to do so.

[Kekshorts]

But they choose which facts to report, and only focus on headlines and stories that will sell more - stories of strife or pieces about how bad 'X' is etc.. So they are 'reporting' the facts, without a moral compass, but their agenda and 'what sells' predicates what they are giving everyone to read. So they may not be using a moral compass, but they are choosing what to report according to their own agenda at the end of the day.
our system isn't perfect, but censorship is a huge step backwards. The multiple news stations exhibiting biases in different directions means you can a wider variety of information if you look around more than one channel, but you'll rarely get the full story.

[holychicken]

But they choose which facts to report, and only focus on headlines and stories that will sell more - stories of strife or pieces about how bad 'X' is etc.. So they are 'reporting' the facts, without a moral compass, but their agenda and 'what sells' predicates what they are giving everyone to read. So they may not be using a moral compass, but they are choosing what to report according to their own agenda at the end of the day.
You are signing a different tune now. You were arguing before that they should, basically, shut the fuck up. Now you are just getting your panties in a bunch because they are reporting what the people want to hear. But, we agree, their moral compass is towards money right now. That needs to be changed. . . but their moral compass SHOULD NOT be to hide facts about the war so the military can do whatever the fuck it wants.

[holychicken]

the alternative is state controled media.

we all know how that turns out.
Not quite. I have given this some thought and I think it should be treated like the courts.

There should be a state-sponsored media. However, all the people who work in it get a tenure so they don't have to worry about re-election or appeasing some of their superiors. This would free them from being profit-drive and, at the same time, protect them from being influenced by the government.

[Tdog]

why should they shoot first?

last I heard they are not on the offensive... thats when you shoot first.

So they are not trying to weed out the insurgents?

[jonyak]

So they are not trying to weed out the insurgents?

how can you tell who is an insurgent if they are not shooting at you?

[Tdog]

how can you tell who is an insurgent if they are not shooting at you?

So in your mind its okay to treat our troops as bait? I am sorry I do not agree with that. I think we should allow our troops to go in and find those that wish to do them harm instead of just waiting for them to attack.

[jonyak]

So in your mind its okay to treat our troops as bait? I am sorry I do not agree with that. I think we should allow our troops to go in and find those that wish to do them harm instead of just waiting for them to attack.

ya I am. that is there job, thats what they signed up for.

how do you tell if someone wishes you harm? are we prosecuting thought crimes now?

[Forgivance]

I absolutely agree Napalm.

Our entire coutry was built on war. America has hardly gone more than a 20 year stretch without a war or military engagment of some type.

Personally, I'm proud to be an American with that history. Proud to have been in the Marine Corps, and proud as shit to have defended my country and all those libral cunts' rights to say and report whatever they want.

[klokateer #7829]

Our entire coutry was built on war. America has hardly gone more than a 20 year stretch without a war or military engagment of some type.


A lot of people tend to forget this or refuse to acknowledge it.

[Tdog]

ya I am. that is there job, thats what they signed up for.

how do you tell if someone wishes you harm? are we prosecuting thought crimes now?

It is not there job to be bait, it is there job to be in harms way but not to act as bait which is exact what they are when they are only allowed to return fire.

Iraq, like it or not is a war zone, in a war zone nobody but the military has rights.

I agree with those posters that say we should not even be in Iraq. The fact of the matter is that we are in Iraq and since that is the reality complaining and whining about that is a waste of time.

Our troops from day one of the Iraq conflict should have been allowed to do what they are trained to do, defeat the enemy anyway possiable then we can worry about rebuilding Iraq.

Think about if we tried to rebuild Germany while we were fighting the Germans. How do you think that would have gone?

[jonyak]

It is not there job to be bait, it is there job to be in harms way but not to act as bait which is exact what they are when they are only allowed to return fire.

Iraq, like it or not is a war zone, in a war zone nobody but the military has rights.

I agree with those posters that say we should not even be in Iraq. The fact of the matter is that we are in Iraq and since that is the reality complaining and whining about that is a waste of time.

Our troops from day one of the Iraq conflict should have been allowed to do what they are trained to do, defeat the enemy anyway possiable then we can worry about rebuilding Iraq.

Think about if we tried to rebuild Germany while we were fighting the Germans. How do you think that would have gone?

using soldiers as bait is a time tested military tactic that has been used with success in every war fought.

oh and the germany thing.. would not have worked.

[Tdog]

I absolutely agree Napalm.

Our entire coutry was built on war. America has hardly gone more than a 20 year stretch without a war or military engagment of some type.

Personally, I'm proud to be an American with that history. Proud to have been in the Marine Corps, and proud as shit to have defended my country and all those libral cunts' rights to say and report whatever they want.

Thank you for defending my rights. I too am proud to be an American. We are a young country and have accomplished more then any other nation ever has.

America has been built on war and people dont understand that War drives technology, we discover more technology during war time then any other time here in America. Things we take for granted in this day and age were invented for our military first.

[jonyak]

I absolutely agree Napalm.

Our entire coutry was built on war. America has hardly gone more than a 20 year stretch without a war or military engagment of some type.

Personally, I'm proud to be an American with that history. Proud to have been in the Marine Corps, and proud as shit to have defended my country and all those libral cunts' rights to say and report whatever they want.

oh god here we go.

this all boild down to...

America... fuck yeah.

[Barbarossa]

I absolutely agree Napalm.

Our entire coutry was built on war. America has hardly gone more than a 20 year stretch without a war or military engagment of some type.

Personally, I'm proud to be an American with that history. Proud to have been in the Marine Corps, and proud as shit to have defended my country and all those libral cunts' rights to say and report whatever they want.

So you agree that any military action by the US should be "an entirely private matter for the armed forces to handle and carry out"?

No military action by this country should be a private matter.

When it becomes private, it means the military can do as they please.

If that happens, this country will be fucked because no one will stand for it.

[Maas]

No personal attacks please.


No warnings from this point out, just infractuations.

[Tdog]

using soldiers as bait is a time tested military tactic that has been used with success in every war fought.

oh and the germany thing.. would not have worked.

You are correct it is a time tested tactic when it is used correctly. We are not using it correctly. We are using it as a way not to piss off the people in the area, that is not the correct use for this tactic.

Again, If our soldiers with boots on the ground were allowed to do what they are trained to do then we would be done in Iraq, we would have been done a few years ago.

[Ori Disciple]

You assume that the media hurts us?
wrong
Mass Media is a weapon.
a powerful weapon.
more powerful than a nuke could EVER be.
a nuke could kill thousands, the media can cause millions to perish.
respect the most feared weapon in existance:
The Mass Media

Also, you cannot avoid the media.
with sat-tech, we can watch anything, anywhere, anytime.
a weapon of mass destruction.

[Tdog]

So you agree that any military action by the US should be "an entirely private matter for the armed forces to handle and carry out"?

No military action by this country should be a private matter.

When it becomes private, it means the military can do as they please.

If that happens, this country will be fucked because no one will stand for it.

The media shoud have access to the after action report that is filed after each battle no matter the size. The media should also have access to the soldiers involved as well as the area the battle took place after the battle is over and it is deemed safe.

The media should not be in bedded with out troops as they are fighting the battles. The military should be a private matter during the fighting.

[Schmaus]

I absolutely agree Napalm.

Our entire coutry was built on war. America has hardly gone more than a 20 year stretch without a war or military engagment of some type.

Personally, I'm proud to be an American with that history. Proud to have been in the Marine Corps, and proud as shit to have defended my country and all those libral cunts' rights to say and report whatever they want.

Tell me again which war you were the defender???

(except for ww1-2 where you were a saviour)

[Forgivance]

So you agree that any military action by the US should be "an entirely private matter for the armed forces to handle and carry out"?

No military action by this country should be a private matter.

When it becomes private, it means the military can do as they please.

If that happens, this country will be fucked because no one will stand for it.

I agree that the media has the right to be whereever they want. I agree that the vulgarities of war shouldn't be seen by the masses. It scares them. They cannot stomach it, and once they are scared, they are against it. So, if the media does happen to be their and report someone dying, and some bleeding hearts in the U.S. are suddenly against us...than the media has failed. Not sure if my point is coming across.

I feel that the military should be able to conduct an operation before the enemy knows we are about to do it. After it is conducted, than sure, they can come report. But if some dude hears we are to bombs "x" coordinates, and reports it before we can bomb that area - than the enemy has time to mobilize.

Again, I love my country and people have many freedoms here, let them use it. But try not to be, what I see as, treasonous by giving out our military plans before we can enact them.

[Tdog]

You assume that the media hurts us?
wrong
Mass Media is a weapon.
a powerful weapon.
more powerful than a nuke could EVER be.
a nuke could kill thousands, the media can cause millions to perish.
respect the most feared weapon in existance:
The Mass Media

Also, you cannot avoid the media.
with sat-tech, we can watch anything, anywhere, anytime.
a weapon of mass destruction.

The media does hurt us, it reports all the negitive aspects of the war, it rarely ever shows the good our Military has done.

The media reports negitive stories in general, ever watch the evening news, how many negitive stories vs good stories do they report?

Seriously the media is all about ratings and not about the story.

[NapalmEnema]

You are signing a different tune now. You were arguing before that they should, basically, shut the fuck up. Now you are just getting your panties in a bunch because they are reporting what the people want to hear. But, we agree, their moral compass is towards money right now. That needs to be changed. . . but their moral compass SHOULD NOT be to hide facts about the war so the military can do whatever the fuck it wants.

I'm not getting my panties in a bunch, I am having a discussion with you, conceding points you have made that are valid, and discussing those points with you which entails modifying my perspective and talking about my theories based on those shifts.

I guess I could just tell you to fuck off and never accept your viewpoint or hear other peoples ideas, but I'm just strange like that.

[Schmaus]

You assume that the media hurts us?
wrong
Mass Media is a weapon.
a powerful weapon.
more powerful than a nuke could EVER be.
a nuke could kill thousands, the media can cause millions to perish.
respect the most feared weapon in existance:
The Mass Media

Also, you cannot avoid the media.
with sat-tech, we can watch anything, anywhere, anytime.
a weapon of mass destruction.

you are right media is powerfull , but a nuke can perish millions ;

though it might be media driven to launch a nuke.

[Tdog]

Tell me again which war you were the defender???

(except for ww1-2 where you were a saviour)

Every person that is servering or has servered in America's armed services has been a defender of our freedoms. PEROID. END OF STORY.

[Forgivance]

Tell me again which war you were the defender???

(except for ww1-2 where you were a saviour)

Schmaus - I understand what you are getting at. We aren't defending our country or way of life (mostly) by sitting in the Middle East. So, my bad for the ol' cliche.

That doesn't change the fact that I've got a leg to stand on having seen both sides of a war.

[Schmaus]

I'm not getting my panties in a bunch, I am having a discussion with you, conceding points you have made that are valid, and discussing those points with you which entails modifying my perspective and talking about my theories based on those shifts.

I guess I could just tell you to fuck off and never accept your viewpoint or hear other peoples ideas, but I'm just strange like that.

no you rather pm people to gtfo of your threads

these talk about moral compass of media ,

you should check your own moral compass

[Ori Disciple]

The media does hurt us, it reports all the negitive aspects of the war, it rarely ever shows the good our Military has done.

The media reports negitive stories in general, ever watch the evening news, how many negitive stories vs good stories do they report?

Seriously the media is all about ratings and not about the story.

to point: The U.S. mil hasnt done very much positive stuff as of late, unfortunately. partly the fault of the Free Iraqi gov't, as well as some thier own fault.

But dont forget that the media is a weapon

[Titus Ultor]

American democratic institutions have been endangered by war since the Sedition Act was passed in our first major war. Yes, much of our country has been "built" by war, but this has been at the cost of our decency and at the risk of our republic.

Everyone knew WWI was awful. Difference was that a good chunk of the people going and most of those behind believed in their cause. Difficult to believe in wars of colonial aggression against Korea/Vietnam/Iraq when it could mean your life.

[NapalmEnema]

oh god here we go.

this all boild down to...

America... fuck yeah.

Git er dun is also an acceptable rallying cry.

Let's roll - was discussed and found lacking due to it's vagueness.

[NapalmEnema]

no you rather pm people to gtfo of your threads

these talk about moral compass of media ,

you should check your own moral compass

http://op-for.com/attention20whore3lm9.jpg

You still haven't said anything valid in this thread, so I continue to NOT respond to you. Sorry, and I stand by my PM which nicely requested that you stay out of my thread and put me on ignore.

Warmest regards and good luck to you in your future endeavors.

[Schmaus]

Every person that is servering or has servered in America's armed services has been a defender of our freedoms. PEROID. END OF STORY.


i am thinking every armed force in the world gets to hear a story like that.

I mean most people need a good reason to kill.

But that you believe that by killing people in Iraq you are preserving your freedom is insane.

If that logic would be true ,Iran and Korea and Afrika and Irak , should really attack USA .

Attacking another country for your freedom does not make sense.

Protect your country , you got strongest military next to china, you have anti rocket system.

USA is protected. Going to other countries to kill is NOT preserving your freedom , it is taking your life and theirs for whatever fucked up reason it starts.

Are you really stupid to believe that these wars are for your freedoms and not for oil and other crap evil reasons?

[Dhig]

If we were allowed to conduct war as a war is supposed to be carried out we wouldn't still be in Iraq. If the media had been as far up our asses during WW2 as it is in this modern age, we'd all be speaking fucking German.

"Oh look that bomb hit a poor house a hundred yards off of target, let's form a giant inquisition, report about it, get the world at large to hate us for our operation, give the terrorist elements more fodder for their idiotic stances and make conducting a military operation as difficult as possible."

You win a war by fighting it like a war should be fought. You don't measure each strike and weigh out collateral damage :ohno: You bomb X grid and move on to the next, mow down the opposition and any civilians that are in the war zone and too stupid to leave or 'might' be unfriendly, and then you move on to the next sector.

You CRUSH your enemy, and if they attack you out of a Mosque, village, or hole in the ground - you FLATTEN said structure, area, or deploy enough bunker busters into said hole to ensure there are no enemies left.

We're so scared that the media spotlight will focus it's scathing beam on us that we have forgotten what it takes to win a fucking fight these days.

Who's the secondary target in a war zone? The mother fucker with a camera that is trying to put their bleeding vagina slant on the fight at hand and doesn't like what it takes to win a fucking fight. Jump on into the fray Geraldo, don't mind that missile heading for you - that's just the standard greeting we have for any of you media assfucks that make it your mission to ruin a perfectly good military campaign.

We won WW2 and the wars before it because we had the stones and will to do what was necessary to get the job done. Vietnam and conflicts after it were lost based on the media and it's impact on the people at home, the pressure it put on the politicians, and the day to day scrutiny of something that should be an entirely private matter for the armed forces to handle and carry out.

So it is ok to win and end a war by removing all the media?
Then it is ok to start a war using media?

Hookay...

Sorry to inform you, democracies comes with people getting involved and the right to an opinion.
It was democracy that made you lose in Vietnam, the media only gave the truth to people.

[Schmaus]

http://op-for.com/attention20whore3lm9.jpg

You still haven't said anything valid in this thread, so I continue to NOT respond to you. Sorry, and I stand by my PM which nicely requested that you stay out of my thread and put me on ignore.

Warmest regards and good luck to you in your future endeavors.

sigh

....so you respond to me by saying you continue to not respond to me?

the epitome of hypocrisy and some would say studpidity

If you do not like people disagreeing with your views on media hindering the effectiveness of your precious wars then go to a KKK meeting or Gun meeting instead of making a thread on an offtopic forum.

[Tdog]

to point: The U.S. mil hasnt done very much positive stuff as of late, unfortunately. partly the fault of the Free Iraqi gov't, as well as some thier own fault.

But dont forget that the media is a weapon

Your right the media is a weapon but it is a weapon we cannot control due to this being America and the press has the right of free speech.

I am all for the right to free speech and for our media to be free to report on anything they wish to report on. The problem I have is they always report the bad, they rarely report the good.

US military has done plenty of good, the things you dont see or read about are all the good things they have done in Iraq.

Do you understand that the majority of the people in Iraq dont mind that we are there, they like us, they thing we did a great thing, the children love america. These are the things the media doesn't report because these stories dont bring in the ratings.

My roomate was in Iraq for 14 months, I can tell you story after story of all the good that the soldiers in Iraq have done but you will not believe me because you do not have access to first hand reports like I do... You only have what the media reports.

[Azorius]

If we were allowed to conduct war as a war is supposed to be carried out we wouldn't still be in Iraq. If the media had been as far up our asses during WW2 as it is in this modern age, we'd all be speaking fucking German.

"Oh look that bomb hit a poor house a hundred yards off of target, let's form a giant inquisition, report about it, get the world at large to hate us for our operation, give the terrorist elements more fodder for their idiotic stances and make conducting a military operation as difficult as possible."

You win a war by fighting it like a war should be fought. You don't measure each strike and weigh out collateral damage :ohno: You bomb X grid and move on to the next, mow down the opposition and any civilians that are in the war zone and too stupid to leave or 'might' be unfriendly, and then you move on to the next sector.

You CRUSH your enemy, and if they attack you out of a Mosque, village, or hole in the ground - you FLATTEN said structure, area, or deploy enough bunker busters into said hole to ensure there are no enemies left.

We're so scared that the media spotlight will focus it's scathing beam on us that we have forgotten what it takes to win a fucking fight these days.

Who's the secondary target in a war zone? The mother fucker with a camera that is trying to put their bleeding vagina slant on the fight at hand and doesn't like what it takes to win a fucking fight. Jump on into the fray Geraldo, don't mind that missile heading for you - that's just the standard greeting we have for any of you media assfucks that make it your mission to ruin a perfectly good military campaign.

We won WW2 and the wars before it because we had the stones and will to do what was necessary to get the job done. Vietnam and conflicts after it were lost based on the media and it's impact on the people at home, the pressure it put on the politicians, and the day to day scrutiny of something that should be an entirely private matter for the armed forces to handle and carry out.

You are ridiculous.

My question is.

What the fuck do you have in your brain besides a big mac?.

[Schmaus]

The media does hurt us, it reports all the negitive aspects of the war, it rarely ever shows the good our Military has done.

The media reports negitive stories in general, ever watch the evening news, how many negitive stories vs good stories do they report?

Seriously the media is all about ratings and not about the story.

seriously it is WAR

do you expect to hear fluffy feel good news about that.

Watch some movies for that but this is REAL LIFE .

People DIE AND SUFFER and you moan about your news being negative

[Forgivance]

i am thinking every armed force in the world gets to hear a story like that.

I mean most people need a good reason to kill.

But that you believe that by killing people in Iraq you are preserving your freedom is insane.

If that logic would be true ,Iran and Korea and Afrika and Irak , should really attack USA .

Attacking another country for your freedom does not make sense.

Protect your country , you got strongest military next to china, you have anti rocket system.

USA is protected. Going to other countries to kill is NOT preserving your freedom , it is taking your life and theirs for whatever fucked up reason it starts.

Are you really stupid to believe that these wars are for your freedoms and not for oil and other crap evil reasons?


Wooooah! Tiger. Calm down son - those fingers are like lightning on the keyboard.

First - your logic is flawed as well. Nazi germany never touched U.S. soil in an attack. Should we have not helped out in that war? Should we have just let them crush our allies (and France)? Let them build with the garnered resources until we were alone shaking on our little rock waiting to be next? No. Preemptive strike ftw. Not to mention, having allies is part of defending our country...best to not let them all die.

Second - as I said, I feel you are mostly correct. I didn't go to Iraq and think, "OMG! We so totally get to speak more freely now cuz of me!" No, but I did go over with the high ideals of defending my countries way of life, and more fucking-importantly, went over to avenge some dead after a small attack on our country. I don't care how many enemy fall over there, or how many are terrorist or not - I do care that yes - my country did NOT roll over and take any attack.

[Kusghuul]

Why are there insurgents left in Iraq? Because we are so careful about trodding on a widdle toe here and there.


Wait, what?

[Dhig]

Wooooah! Tiger. Calm down son - those fingers are like lightning on the keyboard.

First - your logic is flawed as well. Nazi germany never touched U.S. soil in an attack. Should we have not helped out in that war? Should we have just let them crush our allies (and France)? Let them build with the garnered resources until we were alone shaking on our little rock waiting to be next? No. Preemptive strike ftw. Not to mention, having allies is part of defending our country...best to not let them all die.

Second - as I said, I feel you are mostly correct. I didn't go to Iraq and think, "OMG! We so totally get to speak more freely now cuz of me!" No, but I did go over with the high ideals of defending my countries way of life, and more fucking-importantly, went over to avenge some dead after a small attack on our country. I don't care how many enemy fall over there, or how many are terrorist or not - I do care that yes - my country did NOT roll over and take any attack.

The sad thing is that your way of life is soon dead it seems.

[klokateer #7829]

i am thinking every armed force in the world gets to hear a story like that.

I mean most people need a good reason to kill.

But that you believe that by killing people in Iraq you are preserving your freedom is insane.

If that logic would be true ,Iran and Korea and Afrika and Irak , should really attack USA .

Attacking another country for your freedom does not make sense.

Protect your country , you got strongest military next to china, you have anti rocket system.

USA is protected. Going to other countries to kill is NOT preserving your freedom , it is taking your life and theirs for whatever fucked up reason it starts.

Are you really stupid to believe that these wars are for your freedoms and not for oil and other crap evil reasons?

You are really, really naive.

Whatever ulterior motives you happen to believe in there is one motive you have yet to acknowledge.

America was built on freedom from tyranny and the belief that everyone worldwide deserves this same freedom.

While going to Iraq may not have been the best move based on the reasons given, it's people were still being repressed by a war hungry dictator who used lethal weapons on his own people.

Now we are over there and we have to finish what we started. Regardless of what you think we're doing over there, it is a means to an end.

Even if this war takes another 10 years we'll succeed in establishing a free democracy over there. The lives lost now will be venerated for making that place a safe country to live and prosper in.

If you're against helping countries that need help liberating themselves from evil dictatorship you don't believe in what America stands for.

[Forgivance]

The sad thing is that your way of life is soon dead it seems.

Mine? Or my countries? Supposing it's not personal.

It might, it might not. No empire spans time eternal. From Roman to Aztec and even Christian....they'll all end and new ideals will prevail. But until that day, I'll be there fighting for righteousness if able.

[Tdog]

i am thinking every armed force in the world gets to hear a story like that.

I mean most people need a good reason to kill.

But that you believe that by killing people in Iraq you are preserving your freedom is insane.

If that logic would be true ,Iran and Korea and Afrika and Irak , should really attack USA .

Attacking another country for your freedom does not make sense.

Protect your country , you got strongest military next to china, you have anti rocket system.

USA is protected. Going to other countries to kill is NOT preserving your freedom , it is taking your life and theirs for whatever fucked up reason it starts.

Are you really stupid to believe that these wars are for your freedoms and not for oil and other crap evil reasons?

Again you have no idea what I am talking about.

Joining the Military means you are willing to give up your life to ensure my freedoms. Now the Iraq war does not ensure my freedoms, you are correct there but the soldiers have no choice, they must listen to the chain of command whether they believe in the cause or not.

Anyone that has been in or is currently apart of our Armed forces are protecting the freedoms of all American reguardless of their mission.

The soldiers do not pick their missions, those are handed to them, it is their job to carry out that mission reguardless of what they personally think of the mission. So do not blame our soldiers for doing their job.

Now back on topic, our soldiers are over their doing their job and our media is making their job almost impossiable by reporting all the negitive things that happen instead of reporting the good as well.

[Dhig]

Mine? Or my countries? I'm hopeing that's not personal...

If you are dumb enough to take things personal in a discussion not about you, sure go ahead and interpret it as you feel.

[Forgivance]

If you are dumb enough to take things personal in a discussion not about you, sure go ahead and interpret it as you feel.

Yeah, even though your verbage seemed alittle personal (mostly by saying "your" and "dead")....but I editted what I said assuming you weren't some lune just dying to fly to southern California to end me :)

[SSguy]

Nope, not at all. There are too many resources that would be squandered doing that. But this house to house 'Are you sure you're a good guy? yes? ok carry on...' then the guy turns around and blows you up the next day is absurd.

You crush a population, then rebuild. You don't hang out with the locals, most of which are hostile, and hope to overcome. That's just madness and why we are bleeding money and men every day in these half-ass wars we are waging.

You don't win a war against a small portion of the population by destroying the entire population. You only increase your enemies by turning the population against you.

The war in Iraq isn't a war against the people you fucking idiot. Its a war against an idealogy that the entire population does not follow blindly.
Killing the innocent population only gives the lunatics more able people and propaganda.

And in case you haven't noticed.......we are not there to take over Iraq.

[NapalmEnema]

You are ridiculous.

My question is.

What the fuck do you have in your brain besides a big mac?.

A handful of marbles and a squirrel pelt.

It's been a slow year. :(

[Schmaus]

Wooooah! Tiger. Calm down son - those fingers are like lightning on the keyboard.

First - your logic is flawed as well. Nazi germany never touched U.S. soil in an attack. Should we have not helped out in that war? Should we have just let them crush our allies (and France)? Let them build with the garnered resources until we were alone shaking on our little rock waiting to be next? No. Preemptive strike ftw. Not to mention, having allies is part of defending our country...best to not let them all die.

Second - as I said, I feel you are mostly correct. I didn't go to Iraq and think, "OMG! We so totally get to speak more freely now cuz of me!" No, but I did go over with the high ideals of defending my countries way of life, and more fucking-importantly, went over to avenge some dead after a small attack on our country. I don't care how many enemy fall over there, or how many are terrorist or not - I do care that yes - my country did NOT roll over and take any attack.


seeing the clarity of speech in this post i am sure you understand what i meant , i have also mentioned twices before i was not refering to WW1-2.
Usa helped out allies and europe is still glad for that .

The wars i was refering to are the wars defending your freedom , wich actually has nothing to do with freedom but more with WORLD CONTROL.

oh and btw?

You went to Iraq to kill Iraqis out of revenge of 9/11??

you dont care about how many ennemies die over there; WHO IS THE ENNEMY ??

[Tdog]

seriously it is WAR

do you expect to hear fluffy feel good news about that.

Watch some movies for that but this is REAL LIFE .

People DIE AND SUFFER and you moan about your news being negative

Yes I do expect our media to show the good and the bad, not just the bad.

Our troops on the ground are doing good things for the people in Iraq. We dont get to hear much about that becuase it does not bring in the ratings like the negitive stories do.

Our soldiers are not evil, they do good things for people in Iraq. I have heard tons of stories from my roomate that was over in Iraq, He would tell me about the children that would come up to the American troops and ask them questions about America, the children would talk about not having food and the soldiers would give up their own rations for those kids.

Our soldiers have walked children home from school because those children are a target because we want to give them an education. Our soldiers protect hospitals because they are a target because we are upgrading them with modern technology. Our soldiers work with local leaders to solve problems as simple as trach pick ups. Our soldiers are doing alot of good over there but our media chooses not to report the good because it does not bring in the ratings like the negitive.

[Schmaus]

You are really, really naive.

Whatever ulterior motives you happen to believe in there is one motive you have yet to acknowledge.

America was built on freedom from tyranny and the belief that everyone worldwide deserves this same freedom.

While going to Iraq may not have been the best move based on the reasons given, it's people were still being repressed by a war hungry dictator who used lethal weapons on his own people.

Now we are over there and we have to finish what we started. Regardless of what you think we're doing over there, it is a means to an end.

Even if this war takes another 10 years we'll succeed in establishing a free democracy over there. The lives lost now will be venerated for making that place a safe country to live and prosper in.

If you're against helping countries that need help liberating themselves from evil dictatorship you don't believe in what America stands for.

so you have a whole different explanation


USA is going there to help the iraqi people you say ? to bring them freedom and democracy.?

So the original reason going in to stop the weapons of mass destruction changed to preserving USA freedom to we will freedom to Irak.

...interesting...i really hope you will not force them to become christians becasue you want all of them to have a chance to go toheaven.

[NapalmEnema]

Yes I do expect our media to show the good and the bad, not just the bad.

Our troops on the ground are doing good things for the people in Iraq. We dont get to hear much about that becuase it does not bring in the ratings like the negitive stories do.

Our soldiers are not evil, they do good things for people in Iraq. I have heard tons of stories from my roomate that was over in Iraq, He would tell me about the children that would come up to the American troops and ask them questions about America, the children would talk about not having food and the soldiers would give up their own rations for those kids.

Our soldiers have walked children home from school because those children are a target because we want to give them an education. Our soldiers protect hospitals because they are a target because we are upgrading them with modern technology. Our soldiers work with local leaders to solve problems as simple as trach pick ups. Our soldiers are doing alot of good over there but our media chooses not to report the good because it does not bring in the ratings like the negitive.

Exactly.

Heaven forbid they mention anything positive. It comes as a great shock to the American people when Patreus says 'We're doing well' recently because all they get is press decrying our being over there or highlighting when something goes minutely wrong. Never mind all our accomplishments, they couldn't give a fuck about those.

[Forgivance]

You don't win a war against a small portion of the population by destroying the entire population. You only increase your enemies by turning the population against you.

The war in Iraq isn't a war against the people you fucking idiot. Its a war against an idealogy that the entire population does not follow blindly.
Killing the innocent population only gives the lunatics more able people and propaganda.

And in case you haven't noticed.......we are not there to take over Iraq.

Excellent point. I think some people here might have paid the media too much heed and doesn't know why we are in Iraq. Lemme help:

"In the 2000 election, both candidates spoke openly about the need to deal with Saddam Hussein. Al Gore was actually more emphatic on the topic than George Bush was. In 1998, Congress passed and President Clinton signed the Iraq Liberation Act. Just to show how conspiratorial they were, they put it in the Congressional record. In 1995, the CIA tried to organize a coup against Saddam Hussein and it failed. The coup was secret, but it has been written about in 5 or 6 books that I know of. In 1991, representatives of President George H. W. Bush went on the radio and urged the Iraqi people to rise up against Saddam Hussein. So America's policy on Saddam has been consistent. What we have been arguing about for years are the methods. First, we tried to encourage a rebellion in Iraq, that didn't work. Then we tried coups; that didn't work. Then in 1998, we tried funding Iraqi opposition. That might have worked, but the money never actually got appropriated. Then, ultimately we tried direct military power. The idea that Saddam should go has been the policy of the United States since 1991" -David Frum-

Now - the WMD's weren't publicly found - but stockpiles of Chemical weapons and the ability to mass produce them were. The terrorists aren't all dead - but they are on the run and their numbers and dwindling. Sure, we are there for business as well, but who cares? So alittle profit passes hands while a war is going. The war would be going either way.

[klokateer #7829]

ass fuckery to this thread if no one is going to respond to my posts.

Schmaus, if you're going to complain because people aren't paying attention to you, I'm going to do the same - yet tactfully withdrawl so I don't make the same mistake you are... looking like a complete idiot.

[Dhig]

Again you have no idea what I am talking about.

Joining the Military means you are willing to give up your life to ensure my freedoms. Now the Iraq war does not ensure my freedoms, you are correct there but the soldiers have no choice, they must listen to the chain of command whether they believe in the cause or not.

Anyone that has been in or is currently apart of our Armed forces are protecting the freedoms of all American reguardless of their mission.

The soldiers do not pick their missions, those are handed to them, it is their job to carry out that mission reguardless of what they personally think of the mission. So do not blame our soldiers for doing their job.

Now back on topic, our soldiers are over their doing their job and our media is making their job almost impossiable by reporting all the negitive things that happen instead of reporting the good as well.

Soldiers have no right to choose is a stupid thing to say when you fight a war outside your borders.
The right thing to say is that those you fight have no choice because it is their country.

Fighting for your country is very different from fighting for your way of life.
Take Iraq for example. They have no choice but to fight you for their way of life because the war is fought on their land.

Media is giving the people the choice to make up their minds. Giving the people their right to an opinion in a democracy. Yes a democracy, not fascist, government controlled media.

America is a bit closer to fascism then a democracy imo.
The government can choose to start a war by controlling the media but some ppl (like the OP and yourself) think its ok to end and win a war by refusing the media.
That would put the last nail in the coffin and you can declare America one of the big fascist countries. But, yea, you will defend your way of life.

[Schmaus]

You are really, really naive.

Whatever ulterior motives you happen to believe in there is one motive you have yet to acknowledge.

America was built on freedom from tyranny and the belief that everyone worldwide deserves this same freedom.

While going to Iraq may not have been the best move based on the reasons given, it's people were still being repressed by a war hungry dictator who used lethal weapons on his own people.

Now we are over there and we have to finish what we started. Regardless of what you think we're doing over there, it is a means to an end.

Even if this war takes another 10 years we'll succeed in establishing a free democracy over there. The lives lost now will be venerated for making that place a safe country to live and prosper in.

If you're against helping countries that need help liberating themselves from evil dictatorship you don't believe in what America stands for.

i will acknowledge the possibility of a certain democracy and freedom coming to Iraq one day , be it through evolution or armed force.

i understand you want to cling to this moral idea to not make you feel guilty.

seriously i think you forgot your founders and constitution.

Look up Ron paul to learn some more. He ll teach you about constitution and founders moral.

What yuo believe atm was brainwashed to you by media to allow all these wars to happen

[Forgivance]

seeing the clarity of speech in this post i am sure you understand what i meant , i have also mentioned twices before i was not refering to WW1-2.
Usa helped out allies and europe is still glad for that .

The wars i was refering to are the wars defending your freedom , wich actually has nothing to do with freedom but more with WORLD CONTROL.

oh and btw?

You went to Iraq to kill Iraqis out of revenge of 9/11??

you dont care about how many ennemies die over there; WHO IS THE ENNEMY ??


I am their enemy. Their way of life - their idea that they can use terror to make people do what they wish, that they can convert a pregnant 16-year old girl into blowing up innocents while they cannot because they "must perserve the name of Allah", that they can destroy through cowardice - is my enemy.

I sleep most nights with no troubles on my mind. I'm at peace for my sins. And as to going for vengence? Personally, sort of, but as a whole, the reason U.S.A. stood behind the war initially (other than Clinton sneaking it in) was because of 9/11.

[NapalmEnema]

ass fuckery to this thread if no one is going to respond to my posts.

Schmaus, if you're going to complain because people aren't paying attention to you, I'm going to do the same - yet tactfully withdrawl so I don't make the same mistake you are... looking like a complete idiot.

I will find your post and respond - I like the cut of your jib and wish to subscribe to your newsletter. :)

[NapalmEnema]

You are really, really naive.

Whatever ulterior motives you happen to believe in there is one motive you have yet to acknowledge.

America was built on freedom from tyranny and the belief that everyone worldwide deserves this same freedom.

While going to Iraq may not have been the best move based on the reasons given, it's people were still being repressed by a war hungry dictator who used lethal weapons on his own people.

Now we are over there and we have to finish what we started. Regardless of what you think we're doing over there, it is a means to an end.

Even if this war takes another 10 years we'll succeed in establishing a free democracy over there. The lives lost now will be venerated for making that place a safe country to live and prosper in.

If you're against helping countries that need help liberating themselves from evil dictatorship you don't believe in what America stands for.

Very well said, and well thought out. I'm tired of analyzing the 'why we're there' that milk is spilled. Now that we are there, it becomes a matter of winning the conflict, period.

While my OP is a bit heavy handed, regardless of the operations being carried out, the media isn't helping AT ALL and doing our armed services no favors. No matter how careful we are trying to be we are still crucified by the press for every little thing and none of our amazing accomplishments are given the time of day.

[Schmaus]

ass fuckery to this thread if no one is going to respond to my posts.

Schmaus, if you're going to complain because people aren't paying attention to you, I'm going to do the same - yet tactfully withdrawl so I don't make the same mistake you are... looking like a complete idiot.

lol

no need to defend myself looks like you did a pretty good job for me already

[SSguy]

You are correct it is a time tested tactic when it is used correctly. We are not using it correctly. We are using it as a way not to piss off the people in the area, that is not the correct use for this tactic.

Again, If our soldiers with boots on the ground were allowed to do what they are trained to do then we would be done in Iraq, we would have been done a few years ago.

No it wouldn't.
Lets say china invaded us.
They start spreading propaganda that our president is evil and that they are going to install a communism/socialism/whatever.

Then, they start blowing the shit out of our cities and killing anyone they see.

You are going to sit down and take it? You are going to stand there and let your friends and family be killed? You are going to say "Oh lolz, its warz!! them blowing up my house and killing my family while i was gone is totally legit!"??

Seriously, ask yourself that. Then replace china with america and pretend your are an iraqi civilian.

Facts are facts, you can't argue against them.
You blow up a city full of innocent people that have nothing to do with the war, you now have angry survivors that want to join your enemy.

You level the entire city and have no survivors, the next door neighboring city is going to be spreadnig the word when they realize that ALL communication is gone and their reporters are being shot on site. You now have the word spreading and civilians taking up arms against you.

Sorry, I don't know what lala land you are living in.....but Iraq isn't some impoverished bushman country. They have media, telephones, TVs, cars, newspapers, etc.

[Schmaus]

ass fuckery to this thread if no one is going to respond to my posts.

Schmaus, if you're going to complain because people aren't paying attention to you, I'm going to do the same - yet tactfully withdrawl so I don't make the same mistake you are... looking like a complete idiot.

I will find your post and respond - I like the cut of your jib and wish to subscribe to your newsletter. :)

glad you 2 found eachother and enjoy your assfuckery

[NapalmEnema]

glad you 2 found eachother and enjoy your assfuckery

What can I say? He knows of what he speaks:

Schmaus, if you're going to complain because people aren't paying attention to you, I'm going to do the same - yet tactfully withdrawl so I don't make the same mistake you are... looking like a complete idiot.

:)

[SSguy]

Second - as I said, I feel you are mostly correct. I didn't go to Iraq and think, "OMG! We so totally get to speak more freely now cuz of me!" No, but I did go over with the high ideals of defending my countries way of life, and more fucking-importantly, went over to avenge some dead after a small attack on our country. I don't care how many enemy fall over there, or how many are terrorist or not - I do care that yes - my country did NOT roll over and take any attack.

Wow......You do know that there were no links to 9/11 in iraq...right? They were in afghanistan......taking out sadam just opened the doorway for them to go into the country freely.

Yes, we did not roll over and take an attack........because there was none from iraq to begin with.

Yeah...lets shoot random peopl there, who cares if they are innocent....I mean the whole point is t ostop attacks like 9/11 right? You do that by creating more people that hate you! right?!

Go Go D average soldier!

[Schmaus]

Very well said, and well thought out. I'm tired of analyzing the 'why we're there' that milk is spilled. Now that we are there, it becomes a matter of winning the conflict, period.

While my OP is a bit heavy handed, regardless of the operations being carried out, the media isn't helping AT ALL and doing our armed services no favors. No matter how careful we are trying to be we are still crucified by the press for every little thing and none of our amazing accomplishments are given the time of day.

lol

this guy really believes USA is loosing in IRaq because of media .

[Forgivance]

America is a bit closer to fascism then a democracy imo.
The government can choose to start a war by controlling the media but some ppl (like the OP and yourself) think its ok to end and win a war by refusing the media.
That would put the last nail in the coffin and you can declare America one of the big fascist countries. But, yea, you will defend your way of life.

Cannot really say on this one. Fascism has some wonderful ideas that I agree with (else I wouldn't have said wonderful). I believe in unity, expansion and being military led...though those are not fascist as a whole. See, alot of people don't understand fascism because of it's diversified followers. From prior-socialists (Mussolini) to "hard center" (politically/Sir Oswald Mosley) there is too many definitions.

Anyhow, we still vote, majority still, usually, wins without military regime forcing our answer....So, I see that U.S. is fascist in the since that our majority is mostly in the middle of politics...niether too libral nor conservitive. Though we do not have the core of a fascist government.

[Zeaph]

Its all fucked, all I can say.

[Tdog]

Soldiers have no right to choose is a stupid thing to say when you fight a war outside your borders.
The right thing to say is that those you fight have no choice because it is their country.

Fighting for your country is very different from fighting for your way of life.
Take Iraq for example. They have no choice but to fight you for their way of life because the war is fought on their land.

Media is giving the people the choice to make up their minds. Giving the people their right to an opinion in a democracy. Yes a democracy, not fascist, government controlled media.

America is a bit closer to fascism then a democracy imo.
The government can choose to start a war by controlling the media but some ppl (like the OP and yourself) think its ok to end and win a war by refusing the media.
That would put the last nail in the coffin and you can declare America one of the big fascist countries. But, yea, you will defend your way of life.

Umm The Amercan soldier have no rights to decided to fight or not, they are soldiers that follow orders. If their orders are to go to Iraq, they go to Iraq. They do not get to pick who they fight or where they fight. That is how it is.

The Ameican soldier has no ability to control what wars they are apart of and what wars they will not be apart of. My roomate joined the Army and his first day of boot camp, the day they got off the busy at a military base to start his first day of training was on 9.11.2001. So tell me he had a choice about going to war.

The media is not giving us a choice because they are only showing us the negitive side of the war in Iraq or any other place for that matter. The media is not showing you the good that we have done over in Iraq.

So to sit here and tell me the media is giving us a choice is just stupid, the only choice the media is giving you is either believe that our troops are doing only negitive things or to not listen to the media at all.

If the media was truely giving us a choice they would report the good and the bad equally and we both know that is not happening.

[Hecubis]

You can't really compare the current clusterfuck to WW2 at all. It's completely different.

It's not even a war at this point. The USA is essentially trying to use it's military to police two occupied countries. The closest parallel this has to WW2 is the German occupation of France and their struggle against partisan fighters there, except for one important difference - The Germans were smart enough to keep as much of the French political system and infrastructure intact as possible and didn't have to try and rebuild everything from scratch. They didn't care who was running France, as long as they did what the Nazi's told them to do.

When the Allies were occupying Germany it was also quite different. The Germans had fought a brutal war for half a decade and had paid dearly for it. Everything was in shambles by the time the Nazi's were defeated, more than half of the male population that was of prime fighting age were dead, and the survivors had a pretty good case of war-weariness. Most importantly, Germany was split up into Soviet, US, UK and French sections, and the Soviets were absolute cocksuckers.

Most of the Germans quickly began to view the Americans, French and the British as the people who were protecting them from the Soviets, and quite rightly so. WW2 quickly morphed into the Cold War, and Germany was the frontline, the last thing the Germans in the West wanted was for the USA and others to get out of their country and leave them at the mercy of the USSR.

[SSguy]

Excellent point. I think some people here might have paid the media too much heed and doesn't know why we are in Iraq. Lemme help:

"In the 2000 election, both candidates spoke openly about the need to deal with Saddam Hussein. Al Gore was actually more emphatic on the topic than George Bush was. In 1998, Congress passed and President Clinton signed the Iraq Liberation Act. Just to show how conspiratorial they were, they put it in the Congressional record. In 1995, the CIA tried to organize a coup against Saddam Hussein and it failed. The coup was secret, but it has been written about in 5 or 6 books that I know of. In 1991, representatives of President George H. W. Bush went on the radio and urged the Iraqi people to rise up against Saddam Hussein. So America's policy on Saddam has been consistent. What we have been arguing about for years are the methods. First, we tried to encourage a rebellion in Iraq, that didn't work. Then we tried coups; that didn't work. Then in 1998, we tried funding Iraqi opposition. That might have worked, but the money never actually got appropriated. Then, ultimately we tried direct military power. The idea that Saddam should go has been the policy of the United States since 1991" -David Frum-

Now - the WMD's weren't publicly found - but stockpiles of Chemical weapons and the ability to mass produce them were. The terrorists aren't all dead - but they are on the run and their numbers and dwindling. Sure, we are there for business as well, but who cares? So alittle profit passes hands while a war is going. The war would be going either way.

Chemical weapons?! Well jesus christ, thats totally a reason to wreck an entire country....I mean saddam can shoot those scud missles over the U.S. right?

Where were those chemical weapons being produced en masse when we invaded? Why were they not used on us? I think they shot like.....3 scud missles all together?

Oh hey, nevermind out gianormous stockpile of nuclear weapons as well as our own chemical weapons........totally don't need to look like hippocrits.

Where are you getting your news from? They are not dwindling and are not on the run, they just fucking moved into afghanistan, again, and are making straight out attacks on our troops.
OH, WAIT, I C, you mean dwindling in iraq and on the run to afghanistan....yeah......that totally means we are winning in iraq.

You know, we have wanted to get rid of north korea for some time now too......should we invade there? How about communistic china? We've hated them for god knows how long, lets go invade, it will totally be justified!

[Dhig]

What can I say? He knows of what he speaks:

Schmaus, if you're going to complain because people aren't paying attention to you, I'm going to do the same - yet tactfully withdrawl so I don't make the same mistake you are... looking like a complete idiot.

:)

You reply to ppl that only rant on with the same thing and you are saying the same thing over and over again. I can agree that discussing with someone that thinks the same way must make you feel like a winner.

Answer me why the government can use the media to start a war?
Then tell me why the government should be able to refuse the same media to win and end that war?

Yes you are a sheep, you think that whatever the government does as long as it is not in your own country is ok.

Then last, tell me what kind of democracy you want.

Is it the kind were everything is controlled by the government as long as you can have your way of life?

Or is it the free choice of democracy were you can say no to the government if you dont like what they are doing. and by that in some means defend your way of life?

This will tell me if you like democracy or fascism. If you answer free choice I dont know why the hell you are going on defending this.

[Forgivance]

Wow......You do know that there were no links to 9/11 in iraq...right? They were in afghanistan......taking out sadam just opened the doorway for them to go into the country freely.

Yes, we did not roll over and take an attack........because there was none from iraq to begin with.

Yeah...lets shoot random peopl there, who cares if they are innocent....I mean the whole point is t ostop attacks like 9/11 right? You do that by creating more people that hate you! right?!

Go Go D average soldier!

Yes, I'm aware that half of what you say is true.
There is no link to Sadam and the attacks of 9/11. Got it. Of course, that's not why we attacked them in the first place. First, Clinton (yeah, fucking librals) put us in Iraq. Number two, we went there not because of 9/11 (no matter what Bush TRIED to pull and failed). We went for the "WMD's"...and by that, I think they meant to say, "End Sadam's support for terrorism and free the people from the tyranny."

As for shooting innocent people? What makes them so innocent? Because they didn't plan out an attack? Hell, people die. I feel for those that didin't deserve to die for the reasons they did.

However, we are all animals. There is no civil way to kill - but killing must be done.

[Barbarossa]

What can I say? He knows of what he speaks:

Schmaus, if you're going to complain because people aren't paying attention to you, I'm going to do the same - yet tactfully withdrawl so I don't make the same mistake you are... looking like a complete idiot.

:)



Don't worry, you've made the mistake of looking like an idiot on numerous occasions with little outside help.

Your constant grammatical errors and continual contradictions to your own posts do that job sufficiently enough for you.

[Dhig]

Umm The Amercan soldier have no rights to decided to fight or not, they are soldiers that follow orders. If their orders are to go to Iraq, they go to Iraq. They do not get to pick who they fight or where they fight. That is how it is.

The Ameican soldier has no ability to control what wars they are apart of and what wars they will not be apart of. My roomate joined the Army and his first day of boot camp, the day they got off the busy at a military base to start his first day of training was on 9.11.2001. So tell me he had a choice about going to war.

The media is not giving us a choice because they are only showing us the negitive side of the war in Iraq or any other place for that matter. The media is not showing you the good that we have done over in Iraq.

So to sit here and tell me the media is giving us a choice is just stupid, the only choice the media is giving you is either believe that our troops are doing only negitive things or to not listen to the media at all.

If the media was truely giving us a choice they would report the good and the bad equally and we both know that is not happening.

The word is war, bad things happen in wars.

Dont be so dumb to think they will report on how muhammad 5 years old got his first football from the american soldiers when 10 ppl got killed 5 km from were he lives (this is just a made up example).
But I think you know what I mean.

Go and look in your daily newspaper and look what news they focus on.
Is it the bad or the good?

[NapalmEnema]

You reply to ppl that only rant on with the same thing and you are saying the same thing over and over again. I can agree that discussing with someone that thinks the same way must make you feel like a winner.

Answer me why the government can use the media to start a war?
Then tell me why the government should be able to refuse the same media to win and end that war?

Yes you are a sheep, you think that whatever the government does as long as it is not in your own country is ok.

Then last, tell me what kind of democracy you want.

Is it the kind were everything is controlled by the government as long as you can have your way of life?

Or is it the free choice of democracy were you can say no to the government if you dont like what they are doing. and by that in some means defend your way of life?

This will tell me if you like democracy or fascism. If you answer free choice I dont know why the hell you are going on defending this.

Actually, I've conceded points and accepted valid suggestions like ones from HolyChicken. I have been intentionally ignoring Schmaus because he doesn't lend anything to the thread other than complete off-tangent comments and labels like I am a KKK member etc..

I'm also at work so I can't just babysit the thread and comment on every post. I think you are taking what I am saying to an extreme to prove your point, but believe there should be some accountability by the media which is a hard line to define. I also believe that the media by and large is too focused on the negative and never reports any positives because it sells more.

To answer your questions and comments specifically:

Answer me why the government can use the media to start a war?

I think they manipulated the media to start a war which I find completely deplorable and reprehensible. But that's not within the scope of this thread. I think the people that lied to get us over there should be shot, publicly or at the very least jailed for all time.

Then tell me why the government should be able to refuse the same media to win and end that war?

I think if a nation or government is embroiled in a war, lets assume it's justified etc.., then I feel the media being so entrenched in it does the war or it's progress zero good. It ends up focusing on the bad, not the good, etc.. (rest of thread covers this)

Yes you are a sheep, you think that whatever the government does as long as it is not in your own country is ok.

This is just a lame comment and completely untrue.

Then last, tell me what kind of democracy you want.

I don't have a perfect answer for that because I am surrounded by imperfect greedy and self serving people. The people in power seldom hold the same ideals or notions I do, and so I am just basically voicing my opinion as useless as it is. It's like throwing a pebble in the ocean. But it's my pebble, so meh... here it is.

Is it the kind were everything is controlled by the government as long as you can have your way of life?

Nope, because I believe the government too corruptible for this setup to ever work. I am talking about the media and it's impact on war, any war, we could start many more threads on government and control...

Or is it the free choice of democracy were you can say no to the government if you dont like what they are doing. and by that in some means defend your way of life?

I wish the people had more say in the government at the end of the day. I think the premise that the government is there for the people and a voice of them is an ideal but is seldom realized in this day and age - sadly.

This will tell me if you like democracy or fascism. If you answer free choice I dont know why the hell you are going on defending this.

[SSguy]

What can I say? He knows of what he speaks:

Schmaus, if you're going to complain because people aren't paying attention to you, I'm going to do the same - yet tactfully withdrawl so I don't make the same mistake you are... looking like a complete idiot.

:)

No, he doesn't. He doesn't havea clue to what he fuck he is saying.

In America, we believe people have the right to choose the way they want to live.

If a country does not revolt against its leadership, they are content enough with how they live.

The people in Iraq, Korea, China, Russia, etc do not revolt. Should the mahority take up arms and start a civil war, then by all means we can help them.

But, to think that we are there to start it for them is lunacy.
There are TONS and TONS of Americans unsatisfied with their government........with the logic he is using, China, Russia, Europe, Asia, whatever can invade us and topple our government with justification. Clearly, china needs to send over a million or so troops, destroy our infrastructure and kill our military and mow down innocents that get in the way so we can kick start our rebellion!

[NapalmEnema]

No, he doesn't. He doesn't havea clue to what he fuck he is saying.

In America, we believe people have the right to choose the way they want to live.

If a country does not revolt against its leadership, they are content enough with how they live.

The people in Iraq, Korea, China, Russia, etc do not revolt. Should the mahority take up arms and start a civil war, then by all means we can help them.

But, to think that we are there to start it for them is lunacy.
There are TONS and TONS of Americans unsatisfied with their government........with the logic he is using, China, Russia, Europe, Asia, whatever can invade us and topple our government with justification. Clearly, china needs to send over a million or so troops, destroy our infrastructure and kill our military and mow down innocents that get in the way so we can kick start our rebellion!

I was referring to his assesment of Schmaus, nothing more in that quote you have made this in response to...

[Forgivance]

Chemical weapons?! Well jesus christ, thats totally a reason to wreck an entire country....I mean saddam can shoot those scud missles over the U.S. right?

We didn't wreck their country. Thier leaders did that. Have you seen Baghdad? That is a beautiful place, and with the U.S. and it's allies help, it's looking better and better.

Where were those chemical weapons being produced en masse when we invaded? Why were they not used on us? I think they shot like.....3 scud missles all together?

He didn't really have a chance to use them. They've also shot a couple more than 3 scuds...so thank you for remember all the lives lost to your 3-fucking-scuds...

Oh hey, nevermind out gianormous stockpile of nuclear weapons as well as our own chemical weapons........totally don't need to look like hippocrits.

If they had what we had, they would be in charge. We are the big dogs, the ones with the weapons. And no, you aren't allowed to play. What is this idea of chivalry? We need to arm them so they can play like us? Fuck that. We got the guns, we shouldn't share.

Where are you getting your news from? They are not dwindling and are not on the run, they just fucking moved into afghanistan, again, and are making straight out attacks on our troops.
OH, WAIT, I C, you mean dwindling in iraq and on the run to afghanistan....yeah......that totally means we are winning in iraq.

No, I mean Afghanistan. Have you been there? Though I've not - I do know that there are about 50,000 NATO troops there. I guess, I'm getting all of my news from three sources 1- the news, 2- Marines on deployment that I still speak with (sorry other services, only know two guys in the Army and one corpsman) and 3- old old personal experiance.

However, I'm sorta curious, where the fuck are you getting your news?


You know, we have wanted to get rid of north korea for some time now too......should we invade there? How about communistic china? We've hated them for god knows how long, lets go invade, it will totally be justified!

I personally feel we should crush North Korea and give it to south Korea...but my personal feeling don't dictate what will be done (perhaps a good thing). As for China - hells no...they are some money makers with us. East and West been humping away and birthing out the big bucks.

[SSguy]

Yes, I'm aware that half of what you say is true.
There is no link to Sadam and the attacks of 9/11. Got it. Of course, that's not why we attacked them in the first place. First, Clinton (yeah, fucking librals) put us in Iraq. Number two, we went there not because of 9/11 (no matter what Bush TRIED to pull and failed). We went for the "WMD's"...and by that, I think they meant to say, "End Sadam's support for terrorism and free the people from the tyranny."


Oooooo, ok, so its what they meant to say, and not what they actually said. Nice. I bet you are voting for Mccain right?

So instead of saying Saddam is a terrorist.....we tell the American people that he has tons of weapons to destroy us and neighbors with. Damn, They do a brilliant PR job.

Guess what? China and Korea terrorize their citizens too. I bet Russia still does. Why the hell aren't we invading them? Shit, Russia even has oil too.


As for shooting innocent people? What makes them so innocent? Because they didn't plan out an attack? Hell, people die. I feel for those that didin't deserve to die for the reasons they did.

However, we are all animals. There is no civil way to kill - but killing must be done.

Because they don't fucking hate us. They don't run around screaming fuck america, they don't burn american flags. They are average people like you and mean trying to live their god damn life.

You telling them they are going to be shot regardless of where they stand makes them go towards the enemy telling them they want to kill you and protect its citizens.

Dear god........its like you are a brainwashed grunt.

[Paakkor]

If we were allowed to conduct war as a war is supposed to be carried out we wouldn't still be in Iraq. If the media had been as far up our asses during WW2 as it is in this modern age, we'd all be speaking fucking German.

Well maybe because you weren't the ones who started the WW2.


"Oh look that bomb hit a poor house a hundred yards off of target, let's form a giant inquisition, report about it, get the world at large to hate us for our operation, give the terrorist elements more fodder for their idiotic stances and make conducting a military operation as difficult as possible."


You made a pretty big deal about 9/11? And how has the media made any operations harder to conduct?


You win a war by fighting it like a war should be fought. You don't measure each strike and weigh out collateral damage :ohno: You bomb X grid and move on to the next, mow down the opposition and any civilians that are in the war zone and too stupid to leave or 'might' be unfriendly, and then you move on to the next sector.

I can post pictures of some dead children who were too stupid to run away from your airstrike. Or probably they tried to run...


You CRUSH your enemy, and if they attack you out of a Mosque, village, or hole in the ground - you FLATTEN said structure, area, or deploy enough bunker busters into said hole to ensure there are no enemies left.

We have finnish peacekeepers in Afghanistan and we haven't got any negative news about them. Never! Why? Because we don't use your tactics to solve problems. Which is: bomb the shit out of every suspicious person.


We're so scared that the media spotlight will focus it's scathing beam on us that we have forgotten what it takes to win a fucking fight these days.

Who's the secondary target in a war zone? The mother fucker with a camera that is trying to put their bleeding vagina slant on the fight at hand and doesn't like what it takes to win a fucking fight. Jump on into the fray Geraldo, don't mind that missile heading for you - that's just the standard greeting we have for any of you media assfucks that make it your mission to ruin a perfectly good military campaign.

We won WW2 and the wars before it because we had the stones and will to do what was necessary to get the job done. Vietnam and conflicts after it were lost based on the media and it's impact on the people at home, the pressure it put on the politicians, and the day to day scrutiny of something that should be an entirely private matter for the armed forces to handle and carry out.

The Americans dropped more bombs in Vietnam than in all of WW2. So don't say you lost the war because of the media. They were simply just better than you. And btw can you explain why did you even attack Vietnam? And why the media should have been on your side when you were the attackers? North-vietnam won the war anyways you just made it last longer and killed more people. Vietnam is still full of your bombs and people are still dying because of them but US hasn't done shit about it.

But why should I try to preach when you're so brainwashed patriotic american who believes everything what's been told to you.

And afterall.. Your president is a friggin' chimp?

[jonyak]

Yes, I'm aware that half of what you say is true.
There is no link to Sadam and the attacks of 9/11. Got it. Of course, that's not why we attacked them in the first place. First, Clinton (yeah, fucking librals) put us in Iraq. Number two, we went there not because of 9/11 (no matter what Bush TRIED to pull and failed). We went for the "WMD's"...and by that, I think they meant to say, "End Sadam's support for terrorism and free the people from the tyranny."

As for shooting innocent people? What makes them so innocent? Because they didn't plan out an attack? Hell, people die. I feel for those that didin't deserve to die for the reasons they did.

However, we are all animals. There is no civil way to kill - but killing must be done.

you need to go and look up some history of the middle east.

the US was involved long before clinton. Don't try and pin this on the "damn liberals".

[Dhig]

Actually, I've conceded points and accepted valid suggestions like ones from HolyChicken. I have been intentionally ignoring Schmaus because he doesn't lend anything to the thread other than complete off-tangent comments and labels like I am a KKK member etc..

I'm also at work so I can't just babysit the thread and comment on every post. I think you are taking what I am saying to an extreme to prove your point, but believe there should be some accountability by the media which is a hard line to define. I also believe that the media by and large is too focused on the negative and never reports any positives because it sells more.

To answer your questions and comments specifically:

Answer me why the government can use the media to start a war?

I think they manipulated the media to start a war which I find completely deplorable and reprehensible. But that's not within the scope of this thread. I think the people that lied to get us over there should be shot, publicly or at the very least jailed for all time.

Then tell me why the government should be able to refuse the same media to win and end that war?

I think if a nation or government is embroiled in a war, lets assume it's justified etc.., then I feel the media being so entrenched in it does the war or it's progress zero good. It ends up focusing on the bad, not the good, etc.. (rest of thread covers this)

Yes you are a sheep, you think that whatever the government does as long as it is not in your own country is ok.

This is just a lame comment and completely untrue.

Then last, tell me what kind of democracy you want.

I don't have a perfect answer for that because I am surrounded by imperfect greedy and self serving people. The people in power seldom hold the same ideals or notions I do, and so I am just basically voicing my opinion as useless as it is. It's like throwing a pebble in the ocean. But it's my pebble, so meh... here it is.

Is it the kind were everything is controlled by the government as long as you can have your way of life?

Nope, because I believe the government too corruptible for this setup to ever work. I am talking about the media and it's impact on war, any war, we could start many more threads on government and control...

Or is it the free choice of democracy were you can say no to the government if you dont like what they are doing. and by that in some means defend your way of life?

I wish the people had more say in the government at the end of the day. I think the premise that the government is there for the people and a voice of them is an ideal but is seldom realized in this day and age - sadly.

This will tell me if you like democracy or fascism. If you answer free choice I dont know why the hell you are going on defending this.

I agree with you on the choice in this doesnt matter with the corruption and stupidity of your government and other countries governments aswell.

People have to use their own morale and state their opinion whatever happens. If they dont, the government has already controll over everyone.
The media can view this as good or bad. But the atleast they can report the opinion of the majority.

In my opinion this is not a question about how to do to win a war.
This is a question about who controlls the media.
Government controlled media has to start somewhere and if this is the end of your way of life and the start of fascism.

[NapalmEnema]

But why should I try to preach when you're so brainwashed patriotic american who believes everything what's been told to you.

And afterall.. Your president is a friggin' chimp?

I was going to respond to this, but then I got to the end where you wrote this.

Good job with the insult and assumptions. You haven't even read the thread but you can go ahead and label me.

Weak.

[Fizbanui]

Guess it's time for the judgment day....

[Forgivance]

Oooooo, ok, so its what they meant to say, and not what they actually said. Nice. I bet you are voting for Mccain right?

Not sure yet. I don't like Obamma's taxation ideals, but there are a slew of things in McCains policies I don't like. I am still reading on both of them. However, it's impolite to ask :)

So instead of saying Saddam is a terrorist.....we tell the American people that he has tons of weapons to destroy us and neighbors with. Damn, They do a brilliant PR job.

Yup, that's why it was phrased sarcastically. Bush got slammed for his comments on WMD's as well he should have. Was a horrid PR job. They shoulda just been honest...end result would have been the same.

Guess what? China and Korea terrorize their citizens too. I bet Russia still does. Why the hell aren't we invading them? Shit, Russia even has oil too.

As mentioned - yes, kill North Korea, give it to South Korea. Never touch China because that's big money but really glare at them for putting what looked like an 8 year old in the olympics and as for Russia...I'm absolutely head-over-heels for Russian women (especially Glukoza) so would rather not attack them. Not too mention, I'm sure they've still more weapons than we want to deal with. War and winning is about picking your fights as wel...not that we are right or wrong for our choices.


Because they don't fucking hate us. They don't run around screaming fuck america, they don't burn american flags. They are average people like you and mean trying to live their god damn life.

You telling them they are going to be shot regardless of where they stand makes them go towards the enemy telling them they want to kill you and protect its citizens.

Dear god........its like you are a brainwashed grunt.

Just lumping all that. Some do run around screaming that...but i don't care. I don't expect them to love us. They are people and again, there is no civil way to do God's work (killing).

As for being shot - they might. Probably not on purpose all the time. And I feel for those that have been killed for the wrong reason.

As for being a brainwashed grunt. I knew no one as fervant as myself. If I could still be in the Corps, I would be. From loosing squad leader in boot-camp for smiling to the brotherhood I felt to eating MRE's even over a hot meal there is nothing in that part of my life I would give up.

[Duncandun]

If we were allowed to conduct war as a war is supposed to be carried out we wouldn't still be in Iraq. If the media had been as far up our asses during WW2 as it is in this modern age, we'd all be speaking fucking German.

"Oh look that bomb hit a poor house a hundred yards off of target, let's form a giant inquisition, report about it, get the world at large to hate us for our operation, give the terrorist elements more fodder for their idiotic stances and make conducting a military operation as difficult as possible."

You win a war by fighting it like a war should be fought. You don't measure each strike and weigh out collateral damage :ohno: You bomb X grid and move on to the next, mow down the opposition and any civilians that are in the war zone and too stupid to leave or 'might' be unfriendly, and then you move on to the next sector.

You CRUSH your enemy, and if they attack you out of a Mosque, village, or hole in the ground - you FLATTEN said structure, area, or deploy enough bunker busters into said hole to ensure there are no enemies left.

We're so scared that the media spotlight will focus it's scathing beam on us that we have forgotten what it takes to win a fucking fight these days.

Who's the secondary target in a war zone? The mother fucker with a camera that is trying to put their bleeding vagina slant on the fight at hand and doesn't like what it takes to win a fucking fight. Jump on into the fray Geraldo, don't mind that missile heading for you - that's just the standard greeting we have for any of you media assfucks that make it your mission to ruin a perfectly good military campaign.

We won WW2 and the wars before it because we had the stones and will to do what was necessary to get the job done. Vietnam and conflicts after it were lost based on the media and it's impact on the people at home, the pressure it put on the politicians, and the day to day scrutiny of something that should be an entirely private matter for the armed forces to handle and carry out.

I'm glad to see you understand absolutely nothing about military conflicts.

[SSguy]

We didn't wreck their country. Thier leaders did that. Have you seen Baghdad? That is a beautiful place, and with the U.S. and it's allies help, it's looking better and better.


O rly? How many citizens were displaced? How many refugees are moving about?

How many buildings have been destroyed? How many civilian casualties do we have?

Wrecked may be a bit over exaggerating, but its still one hell of a clusterfuck.
Yeah, looking better and better.........while afghanistan is looking worse and worse.

I'm glad to know a dictator wrecked his own country, while we go ahead and install a corrupt, slow, and lazy government in his place.


He didn't really have a chance to use them. They've also shot a couple more than 3 scuds...so thank you for remember all the lives lost to your 3-fucking-scuds...


Well if he didn't have a chance to use him, how did we lose lives to the fucking scuds? Shit, I don't even remember hearing any reports OF any lives lost from scuds.


If they had what we had, they would be in charge. We are the big dogs, the ones with the weapons. And no, you aren't allowed to play. What is this idea of chivalry? We need to arm them so they can play like us? Fuck that. We got the guns, we shouldn't share.


So much for not being tyrannical, right? What ever happened to fighting for freedom everywhere?

Aren't people free to defend themselves? If we were playing nice and by the rules and not being tyrannical, why would we worry about them playing like us? Are we playing bad?


No, I mean Afghanistan. Have you been there? Though I've not - I do know that there are about 50,000 NATO troops there. I guess, I'm getting all of my news from three sources 1- the news, 2- Marines on deployment that I still speak with (sorry other services, only know two guys in the Army and one corpsman) and 3- old old personal experiance.


Marines on deployment know crap other than what they are told and when the hell did old old personal experience give you fucking up to date news??

and lastly, the news diagrees with you. When your top general there is telling you he needs more support because activities are increasing......You don't play it off as Afghanistan is doing great.


However, I'm sorta curious, where the fuck are you getting your news?


Everywhere I can get it. Thankfully, its not from the same sources. But hey, thats a good source to quote.......old personal experience. :lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:

I think we are done here.



I personally feel we should crush North Korea and give it to south Korea...but my personal feeling don't dictate what will be done (perhaps a good thing). As for China - hells no...they are some money makers with us. East and West been humping away and birthing out the big bucks.

Oh ok, so as long as we aren't making huge cash off of a country, we can crush them?

Yeah, we are done here. You are a sell out with no morals, using our country's ideals so you can kill people while backing down when theres money to be made.

I think I just puked in my mouth...

[NapalmEnema]

I'm glad to see you understand absolutely nothing about military conflicts.

I'm equally glad to see you understand nothing about reality, the world around us, or how the media impacts those things.

[Tdog]

The word is war, bad things happen in wars.

Dont be so dumb to think they will report on how muhammad 5 years old got his first football from the american soldiers when 10 ppl got killed 5 km from were he lives (this is just a made up example).
But I think you know what I mean.

Go and look in your daily newspaper and look what news they focus on.
Is it the bad or the good?

Bad and that is my point. They only report the bad, they do not report the good. Its always negitive, very rarely do you see a good news report.

That is the point. The media only reports the bad stuff because negitive stories have better ratings which means more advertising dollars. Make no mistake about it, the media is a business just like everything else, they are in it to make money not report the truth.

The problem with your example is that in Iraq more good then bad is happening yet we as the general public do not know that, we all are feed daily all the negitive coming out of Iraq. What about the days their is nothing negitive to report, what news do we get out of Iraq? None is the answer.

You are correct WAR is evil, it is bad, it is ugly and it should be reported as such but when we are doing good everyday in Iraq and the media is not reporting it.

[Duncandun]

Yeah, I wish we didn't have that troublesome media. Then we could(if we were in places of power) all get away with what ever we wanted!

Ahh... that would be grand.

Like using WP on a non-combatant town in Iraq? Great idea!

[SSguy]

As mentioned - yes, kill North Korea, give it to South Korea. Never touch China because that's big money but really glare at them for putting what looked like an 8 year old in the olympics and as for Russia...I'm absolutely head-over-heels for Russian women (especially Glukoza) so would rather not attack them. Not too mention, I'm sure they've still more weapons than we want to deal with. War and winning is about picking your fights as wel...not that we are right or wrong for our choices.


Don't attack Russia because we like russian women...who cares if their people are repressed....not thats its the reason we went into iraq or anything...Oh hey, lets forget to mention we don't want to liberate over there because they can actually fight back.......

When war becomes about winning and not about whether our decisions are justified and serve justice, we become no better than the terrorists we are fighting.

War without justice and ideals is not American.

Just lumping all that. Some do run around screaming that...but i don't care. I don't expect them to love us. They are people and again, there is no civil way to do God's work (killing).


Just like we have half a dozen Americans running around screaming kill the sand *******?

Since when did mr. all mighty and all powerful needs someone to do his work for him? Great, so you are now an ill educated fanatical corporate sell out thats lead by his penis and won't fight anything that can fight back. Just keeps getting better.



As for being shot - they might. Probably not on purpose all the time. And I feel for those that have been killed for the wrong reason.


Yeah, shot for the wrong reason........ever think that reason is the "shoot first, ask questions later" policy you are supporting?


As for being a brainwashed grunt. I knew no one as fervant as myself. If I could still be in the Corps, I would be. From loosing squad leader in boot-camp for smiling to the brotherhood I felt to eating MRE's even over a hot meal there is nothing in that part of my life I would give up.

Thank god you didn't keep squad leader.....I can only imagine the horrors you would commit with some sick justification of it. "Oh, its ok to rape these iraqi females, they are in a warzone afterall, they don't have rights"

[Forgivance]

Well maybe because you weren't the ones who started the WW2.

Correct.

You made a pretty big deal about 9/11? And how has the media made any operations harder to conduct?

On the rare occasions that they tell the enemy where our troops are or where they will be really fucks things up. The rest - good/bad - I don't mind.

I can post pictures of some dead children who were too stupid to run away from your airstrike. Or probably they tried to run...

Assuming you mean you can find those pics to post and don't just have them on your hard drive...good job. So what? I dont' speak for my country, but as I've stated, I feel bad for them. Wish the strike was more on target or that children weren't there. I also wish there was about 4 billion less people in the world with the inability to breed more than once per five years and that they would all know peace. I also wish people were smarter. I also wish that no truely innocent child ever had to suffer be it in times of war or to the hands of a truely demonic person. However, I'm going to step outside, shit in one hand and wish all these wishes in the other and see which fills up first.

We have finnish peacekeepers in Afghanistan and we haven't got any negative news about them. Never! Why? Because we don't use your tactics to solve problems. Which is: bomb the shit out of every suspicious person.

Ummm, they are part of NATO following many of the same tactics. Hell, if Finland had a bomb, they'd prolly use it. Didn't Finland cede like alot of land to Russia? With some more bombs - that might not have happened? Oh, and with only 5 or 6 million people in that country - it's sorta a small community globally, of course you hear nice things. Things become alot more impersonal as the numbers grow. Course, I just said all this paragraph to be a dickhead...no other real point.

The Americans dropped more bombs in Vietnam than in all of WW2. So don't say you lost the war because of the media. They were simply just better than you. And btw can you explain why did you even attack Vietnam? And why the media should have been on your side when you were the attackers? North-vietnam won the war anyways you just made it last longer and killed more people. Vietnam is still full of your bombs and people are still dying because of them but US hasn't done shit about it.

Not sure if anyone said we lost because of media there....if they did, than true that they are wrong. As for people still dying there because of left munitions....yeah, that's possible.

But, for your question - vietnam was to help South Vietnam not become communistic (assuming because they asked for help). However, we ultimatly failed when, in 1975, north consumed south with the NLF to make the whole thing Communist ran.

But why should I try to preach when you're so brainwashed patriotic american who believes everything what's been told to you.

And afterall.. Your president is a friggin' chimp?

True, why should you preach it? Dunno, but you sure as shit did.

And yeah, Bush is sorta a wierd-bean. But I've meet so few people that aren't imo.

[Duncandun]

Or hey, apparently we don't wanna nuke Iraq because It has too many precious resources right? Right Enema?

Well, we have the perfect weapon! It's called a Neutron bomb, and it was developed for just such an occasion!

NapalmEnema gets to push the button, come on napalm lets win the war! This is what you always wanted!

[inox]

We are not talking about WW2 so leave it out, the media was on our side back then no matter what.

Yeah, propaganda is awesome. Let's liberate the world. Gott mit uns. To anyone who oppose us; Arbeit macht frei.

[Tdog]

Marines on deployment know crap other than what they are told and when the hell did old old personal experience give you fucking up to date news??

and lastly, the news diagrees with you. When your top general there is telling you he needs more support because activities are increasing......You don't play it off as Afghanistan is doing great.
...

Marines on the ground know alot more then you or I know about the situation.
Soldiers on the ground know more then they are told from their commanders simply because they are the ones fighting each and everyday, they know the situation better then the generals.

Just by saying that the Marines on deployment know crap other then what they are told tells me you know nothing about soldiers or military.

Also the Top general says he needs more troops to combat the increase in attacks, he never said afghanistan was doing bad, he said he needs more combat troops to keep afghanistan heading in the right direction.

[SSguy]

Bad and that is my point. They only report the bad, they do not report the good. Its always negitive, very rarely do you see a good news report.

That is the point. The media only reports the bad stuff because negitive stories have better ratings which means more advertising dollars. Make no mistake about it, the media is a business just like everything else, they are in it to make money not report the truth.


Building a school for the 15 kids we just bombed doesn't sound real good.

Yeah, the good things go unnoticed. But its not because most of America does not care, but because doing good is what is expected of our so called greatest military in the world.

Unless the military starts telling us they are garbage and can't do anything right, we shall not worry about what they do right. They are the best of the best, its expected.

[Duncandun]

Also, there were plenty of media in WW2. They were however all military journalists(working and hired by the military). They videotaped plenty of the horrors of that war, but because they were working for the military, the freedom of the press didn't present itself. So those pieces were squelched and the public went totally unknown of just how /horrible/ war is. The only people who really had any idea were the soldiers who came home, and the families of the ones who didn't.

[Tdog]

Or hey, apparently we don't wanna nuke Iraq because It has too many precious resources right? Right Enema?

Well, we have the perfect weapon! It's called a Neutron bomb, and it was developed for just such an occasion!

NapalmEnema gets to push the button, come on napalm lets win the war! This is what you always wanted!

Nobody wants to use a nuke, it would cause the end of the human race, it has nothing to do with the resources Iraq has.

Its called common sense, maybe you shoud use it before you post.

[Mazer]

How can you guys expect the media to paint a 'positive' image of the Iraq war when it is nothing more than a failed occupation that began on lies? Get real people, I'm sure there are some good things coming outta Iraq but overall, the word 'FAIL' is written all over it.

Honestly, the 'Fuck it, we're there already, let's do whatever it takes to win it now and silence the media' attitude is unbelievable. Screw the casualties, screw the fact that is goes against what American democracy supposedly stands for. Win at all costs. Fuck being accountable.

Comparing this 'war' to WWII is a big joke and nothing more.

[Duncandun]

Nobody wants to use a nuke, it would cause the end of the human race, it has nothing to do with the resources Iraq has.

Its called common sense, maybe you shoud use it before you post.

Moron, I was addressing napalm. Hes the one that said that, maybe you should not be a fucking retard.

[NapalmEnema]

Clearly there is only one solution to the world's problems and a media gone apeshit:

http://img2.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/080124/Sylvester-Stallone-Roles/Sylvester-Stallone_Judge_l.jpg

We need about 50k of these guys, and we're good to go.

[Tdog]

Building a school for the 15 kids we just bombed doesn't sound real good.

Yeah, the good things go unnoticed. But its not because most of America does not care, but because doing good is what is expected of our so called greatest military in the world.

Unless the military starts telling us they are garbage and can't do anything right, we shall not worry about what they do right. They are the best of the best, its expected.

So because is expected you should not report on it? That makes alot of sense now doesn't it. WTF.

Building a schoold for kids is a very good thing, allow girls to go to school is a good thing, allowing children to get an education reguardless of their beliefs is a good thing.

[SSguy]

Marines on the ground know alot more then you or I know about the situation.
Soldiers on the ground know more then they are told from their commanders simply because they are the ones fighting each and everyday, they know the situation better then the generals.

Just by saying that the Marines on deployment know crap other then what they are told tells me you know nothing about soldiers or military.


Oh wow......Our marines have access to numbers and statistics now? They know how many terrorists were killed 3 cities down now?

I'm glad to know the marines know more than their superior officers. Thats great...I mean, I bet our top commanders there know absolutely nothing and are just big ol fuck ups.

Heres what they know......Who is shooting at them, and with what, how many casualties they sustained, how many the killed.....for their unit, for that current battle......and prior ones if they even keep track of them.

I don't remember cellphones being part of the standard equipment.

Also the Top general says he needs more troops to combat the increase in attacks, he never said afghanistan was doing bad, he said he needs more combat troops to keep afghanistan heading in the right direction.

Increase of attacks = doing bad.
Need of more troops to keep it in the right direction means something went wrong that is now derailing it.

You don't need a ton more troops when you are winning.

Would you prefer I say doing worse? Worse just leads to bad.

[Forgivance]

Don't attack Russia because we like russian women...who cares if their people are repressed....not thats its the reason we went into iraq or anything...Oh hey, lets forget to mention we don't want to liberate over there because they can actually fight back.......

I didn't forget. Re-read my post, I did put that they have too many guns.

When war becomes about winning and not about whether our decisions are justified and serve justice, we become no better than the terrorists we are fighting.

Not so. We fight with rules. We follow the Geneva Convention standards of warfare (as a whole, not speaking individuals out there). Terrorist are called that because they intimidate through fear. How many beheadings have you seen that America has performed or produced in an attempt to get a point across? None - we all bomb, we all shoot, but we 'attempt' to do it in a civil fashion (impossible).

War without justice and ideals is not American.

War is American. We cannot go pick on Russia because it's a war we cannot do. We would weaken ourselves too much, have too little support and could end us. Sure, we'd like tyranny to be at a minimum globally. But that's not possible...

Just like we have half a dozen Americans running around screaming kill the sand *******?

This makes little since. I think I understand what you mean, but am not sure. You are stating that since some people in the Middle East say that they hate the U.S. we have people using racial slurs? I don't follow. But will inform you that you are correct. Racial slurs on both sides occur. I personally was raised only to hate vietnamese (father was there), but I outgrew that and hate individuals only know...no overgeneralizations here :)

Since when did mr. all mighty and all powerful needs someone to do his work for him? Great, so you are now an ill educated fanatical corporate sell out thats lead by his penis and won't fight anything that can fight back. Just keeps getting better.

Again, not following you here. "God's" don't need help. But more death and blood has been spilt on their name than for any other cause. Course, if a God or Gods are out there, than fuck 'em. I hate 'em.

Yeah, shot for the wrong reason........ever think that reason is the "shoot first, ask questions later" policy you are supporting?

I don't shoot first nor ask questions later. It's not the American policy. Most people (innocent ones that is) that die is due to massive attacks (bombings and such) that usually end up in the wrong grid. Not because of outright firefights. The firefights that do kill alot of innocents are often the enemy using their countrymen as shields and/or mowing them down as an intimidation factor.

Thank god you didn't keep squad leader.....I can only imagine the horrors you would commit with some sick justification of it. "Oh, its ok to rape these iraqi females, they are in a warzone afterall, they don't have rights"

First, that was in Basic Training...loved it. Second - the horrors I would commit? Sick justification? I read earlier to not have personal attacks here. Stating that I would have even considered something as heinous as rape is slanderous and degrading. Not only do I insist you take that back, but I also request that you become more learned on this subject, as it is suddenly appearant you are not.

[Wind4Air]

1st amendment: The freedom of religion, speach, meetings, and press.

Dispite being right about media-caused war-loss, there's nothing that can be done about the media.

[Drunkenork]

If you want to kill and destroy so badly, go sign up for the army and GO TO IRAQ and shoot the civilians, maybe you'll win the war.

Fail.

[NapalmEnema]

Moron, I was addressing napalm. Hes the one that said that, maybe you should not be a fucking retard.

Where the fuck did I say use a nuke?

[Tdog]

How can you guys expect the media to paint a 'positive' image of the Iraq war when it is nothing more than a failed occupation that began on lies? Get real people, I'm sure there are some good things coming outta Iraq but overall, the word 'FAIL' is written all over it.

Honestly, the 'Fuck it, we're there already, let's do whatever it takes to win it now and silence the media' attitude is unbelievable. Screw the casualties, screw the fact that is goes against what American democracy supposedly stands for. Win at all costs. Fuck being accountable.

Comparing this 'war' to WWII is a big joke and nothing more.

I expect them to report both the bad and the good, that is what the media is for.
Reporting only the bad is not responsible reporting and that is what I have a problem with.

A typical American when asked about the Iraq war will talk about the Road side bombs and the innocent people being killed because that is all that is reported by the media.

[Tdog]

Moron, I was addressing napalm. Hes the one that said that, maybe you should not be a fucking retard.

No your the one that said use a nuke in Iraq.

[SSguy]

So because is expected you should not report on it? That makes alot of sense now doesn't it. WTF.


Yes, it does make sense.
You call yourself great, then you do great things, you don't get pampered and rewarded for every little thing.
If our military was trash, then yeah we would report more on the good things.

If you claim to be the best of the best, then you perform as the best.


Building a schoold for kids is a very good thing, allow girls to go to school is a good thing, allowing children to get an education reguardless of their beliefs is a good thing.

But bombing them by accident is a bad thing.
But telling them their culture is wrong is a bad thing.
By imposing our culture on them is a bad thing.
By not letting them fight and build for themselves is a bad thing.

[Dhig]

Clearly there is only one solution to the world's problems and a media gone apeshit:

http://img2.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/080124/Sylvester-Stallone-Roles/Sylvester-Stallone_Judge_l.jpg

We need about 50k of these guys, and we're good to go.

Myesh, I would laugh so hard I would die if someone came up to me with a plastic gun and plastic outfit and told me he was there to judge my ass :lmao:

[Duncandun]

Let me guess, you think we should just nuke the shit out of Iran/Iraq?

Nope, not at all. There are too many resources that would be squandered doing that.


derr da derr derr

[Dhig]

I expect them to report both the bad and the good, that is what the media is for.
Reporting only the bad is not responsible reporting and that is what I have a problem with.

A typical American when asked about the Iraq war will talk about the Road side bombs and the innocent people being killed because that is all that is reported by the media.

If you want to change that, create a new site and gather all the good things that happen in Iraq. Hell, make it a portal and link to other sites that did report something good.
That would be easy to do but would take alot of time from forumfall :eek:

[Duncandun]

Also, If you reported all the good things in the world, and all the bad things... which would have more reports?

[Fizbanui]

A typical American when asked about the Iraq war will talk about the Road side bombs and the innocent people being killed because that is all that is reported by the media.

Yes because your military would always try to keep that secret.

[NapalmEnema]

Myesh, I would laugh so hard I would die if someone came up to me with a plastic gun and plastic outfit and told me he was there to judge my ass :lmao:

:lmao::lmao:

I am the law!! /Rob Schneider

[Forgivance]

Oh wow......Our marines have access to numbers and statistics now? They know how many terrorists were killed 3 cities down now?

I'm glad to know the marines know more than their superior officers. Thats great...I mean, I bet our top commanders there know absolutely nothing and are just big ol fuck ups.

Heres what they know......Who is shooting at them, and with what, how many casualties they sustained, how many the killed.....for their unit, for that current battle......and prior ones if they even keep track of them.

I don't remember cellphones being part of the standard equipment.


Increase of attacks = doing bad.
Need of more troops to keep it in the right direction means something went wrong that is now derailing it.

You don't need a ton more troops when you are winning.

Would you prefer I say doing worse? Worse just leads to bad.

Satallite phones and radios are standard (cellphones aren't, but there are plenty over there anyway, even if you'll never get service).

Usually, Marines (assuming other forces also) get a briefing. We call it a 5-paragraph order.
Situation, Mission, Execution, Admin&Logistics, Commanding Signals is what we are giving, sometimes in great detail.

So, if we are told (hypothetically) that there are up to 20 Al-queda held up in a neighborhood holding three South Korean hostages that they plan to execute and broadcast - Mission is to extract the hostages and neutralize (yeah, means kill) all opporational terrorists - Execution would detail entry, extraction and means - Admin/Logistics would detail equipment ....well, you get the point.

So, does the military know more...fuck yes. The media isn't allowed in those and they aren't on ride-alongs everywhere. Does your average grunt know what's happening three towns away? Usually not...unless they need to.

[Tdog]

Also, If you reported all the good things in the world, and all the bad things... which would have more reports?

You would have more good reports then bad reports.

[nate4449]

the reason America is losing now is because they're trying to fight a huge force that isn't there.

Dying out of boredom I assume? :lmao:

[Duncandun]

You would have more good reports then bad reports.

I wish we were all as optimistic as you.


also good job ignoring my earlier post.

[Tdog]

If you want to change that, create a new site and gather all the good things that happen in Iraq. Hell, make it a portal and link to other sites that did report something good.
That would be easy to do but would take alot of time from forumfall :eek:

I do not have access to all the good stories in Iraq nor would I be granted access.

[Fizbanui]

You would have more good reports then bad reports.

Hahaha, dream on....:lmao::lmao:

[Ori Disciple]

Your right the media is a weapon but it is a weapon we cannot control due to this being America and the press has the right of free speech.

I am all for the right to free speech and for our media to be free to report on anything they wish to report on. The problem I have is they always report the bad, they rarely report the good.

US military has done plenty of good, the things you dont see or read about are all the good things they have done in Iraq.

Do you understand that the majority of the people in Iraq dont mind that we are there, they like us, they thing we did a great thing, the children love america. These are the things the media doesn't report because these stories dont bring in the ratings.

My roomate was in Iraq for 14 months, I can tell you story after story of all the good that the soldiers in Iraq have done but you will not believe me because you do not have access to first hand reports like I do... You only have what the media reports.

I am well aware of the fact that the U.S were, for the most part, well received in Iraq after the fall of Sadam. he was a madman, and it was a good thing that the U.S. took him out.
I have more than just the U.S. media. world media is less biased

[Tdog]

Oh wow......Our marines have access to numbers and statistics now? They know how many terrorists were killed 3 cities down now?

I'm glad to know the marines know more than their superior officers. Thats great...I mean, I bet our top commanders there know absolutely nothing and are just big ol fuck ups.

Heres what they know......Who is shooting at them, and with what, how many casualties they sustained, how many the killed.....for their unit, for that current battle......and prior ones if they even keep track of them.

I don't remember cellphones being part of the standard equipment.


Increase of attacks = doing bad.
Need of more troops to keep it in the right direction means something went wrong that is now derailing it.

You don't need a ton more troops when you are winning.

Would you prefer I say doing worse? Worse just leads to bad..

Our soldiers have the same access to the information you have access to. So yes they have numbers and statistics as well as word of mouth from other soldiers in the field.

Bases are full of different units that all have different roles and different area's of operation and they talk to each other, your dumb if you think they don't.

Our soldiers on the ground have a better idea of their real situation then we do. Our soldiers know what they need to do to make sure they are successful during a mission. Even the best planned missions don't go according to plan. Do you think that the generals call all the shots or do the generals give out the missions goals and the soldiers on the group create the plans to execute the mission.

[Tdog]

Hahaha, dream on....:lmao::lmao:

So you think more that there is more bad in the world then good? I feel sorry for you.

[SSguy]

So, does the military know more...fuck yes. The media isn't allowed in those and they aren't on ride-alongs everywhere. Does your average grunt know what's happening three towns away? Usually not...unless they need to.

So the troops....TROOPS, not officers and etc......the people who we are talking about before.....KNOW MORE....than the people giving them the briefings........

God damn, You gotta be hitting F averages there.

Why don't you go invade a third world country using American ideals as a reason to liberate them......then when asked to invade some other countries that violate american ideals, cower in the corner while telling us that one countries makes us big bucks and the other country can fight back.

[Duncandun]

Nobody wants to use a nuke, it would cause the end of the human race, it has nothing to do with the resources Iraq has.

Its called common sense, maybe you shoud use it before you post.

good job ignoring me when I point out your stupid.

[Tdog]

good job ignoring me when I point out your stupid.

Not ignoring you, you said he wants to nuke them, he said he did not want to nuke them, you fail. nothing left to say.

[Duncandun]

Nobody wants to use a nuke, it would cause the end of the human race, it has nothing to do with the resources Iraq has.

Its called common sense, maybe you shoud use it before you post.

Not ignoring you, you said he wants to nuke them, he said he did not want to nuke them, you fail. nothing left to say.

Holy shit, he said he wouldn't want to nuke them because of possible damage to their resources, I called him out on that and both you and him act like he didn't actually fucking say that.

You're pretty sad.

[NapalmEnema]

Holy shit, he said he wouldn't want to nuke them because of possible damage to their resources, I called him out on that and both you and him act like he didn't actually fucking say that.

You're pretty sad.

Errr... I've been busy but have responded to quite a bit in this thread. If you are upset that I missed your awesome little post - feel free to repost it and I'll make my comments on it.

Did you read anything else I wrote in here or did you just cherry pick things to bitch about? :rolleyes:

[Tdog]

So the troops....TROOPS, not officers and etc......the people who we are talking about before.....KNOW MORE....than the people giving them the briefings........

God damn, You gotta be hitting F averages there.

Why don't you go invade a third world country using American ideals as a reason to liberate them......then when asked to invade some other countries that violate american ideals, cower in the corner while telling us that one countries makes us big bucks and the other country can fight back.

The commanders give them the mission and the goals of the mission. The officers in their unit lay out a plan of action for that mission and gives each squad leader their orders, then the unit heads out to do the mission. Even the best planned missions don't go as planned for a number of reasons and the squad leaders must make instant choices to be able to full fill their mission goals.

Also our troops have access to all the same information you or I have because they have internet access right at their base. (most of them) They are well aware of everything going on in their area of operation.

What you don't understand or are unwilling to accept is that our soldiers have to sit and watch armed men walking around and cannot do anything to them unless fired upon. My roomate had to sit and watch armed men walk around their check point because the armed men were not shooting at him. He even asked via radio if his unit could engage the enemy and was told not unless fired upon. That is what our troops are facing. Whether you choose to believe me or not doesn't matter to me.

[DeathByCactus]

Armchair warriors speculating on war... to involve myself or not......

no, I like pie. Pie is great because smells good, looks good, and tastes great. Cake sucks. You all like cack....<---.

My Bro just got back from Iraq. I am happy, so is he.

RaWr.

Cookies anyone? As a break to this, "You are stupid!" "NO YOU ARE STUPID! STUPID!" "No sir, you fail stupid."

[Duncandun]

Errr... I've been busy but have responded to quite a bit in this thread. If you are upset that I missed your awesome little post - feel free to repost it and I'll make my comments on it.

Did you read anything else I wrote in here or did you just cherry pick things to bitch about? :rolleyes:

it's on page 12 faggot, do it yourself.

[Tdog]

Holy shit, he said he wouldn't want to nuke them because of possible damage to their resources, I called him out on that and both you and him act like he didn't actually fucking say that.

You're pretty sad.

I don't agree with him on why we are not using Nukes, what I said was nobody wants to use a nuke because it would be the end of the human race.

I also said he did not say he wanted to nuke Iraq. I never said anything about him not saying it was because of the resources.

[Tdog]

Armchair warriors speculating on war... to involve myself or not......

no, I like pie. Pie is great because smells good, looks good, and tastes great. Cake sucks. You all like cack....<---.

My Bro just got back from Iraq. I am happy, so is he.

RaWr.

Cookies anyone? As a break to this, "You are stupid!" "NO YOU ARE STUPID! STUPID!" "No sir, you fail stupid."

Tell your brother "Thank You".
I am glad he is home and safe.

[NapalmEnema]

it's on page 12 faggot, do it yourself.

Yes that makes me want to respond to you, calling me fucking names like an infant.

Here's a better idea - go fuck yourself. Obviously your 'views' and 'opinion' aren't worth my fucking time if you can't even be civil. I've responded to lots of people even ones with contrary views. But you're just some asshole with an axe to grind.

[jonyak]

Armchair warriors speculating on war... to involve myself or not......

no, I like pie. Pie is great because smells good, looks good, and tastes great. Cake sucks. You all like cack....<---.

My Bro just got back from Iraq. I am happy, so is he.

RaWr.

Cookies anyone? As a break to this, "You are stupid!" "NO YOU ARE STUPID! STUPID!" "No sir, you fail stupid."

man you are stupid.:D

[DeathByCactus]

Also our troops have access to all the same information you or I have because they have internet access right at their base. (most of them) They are well aware of everything going on in their area of operation.

What you don't understand or are unwilling to accept is that our soldiers have to sit and watch armed men walking around and cannot do anything to them unless fired upon. My roomate had to sit and watch armed men walk around their check point because the armed men were not shooting at him. He even asked via radio if his unit could engage the enemy and was told not unless fired upon. That is what our troops are facing. Whether you choose to believe me or not doesn't matter to me.

For the first bold... That is only if the internet fucking works because the connection points get blown up/taken out all the time. Typically they know more than anyone outside of the M.E. will.

For the watching armed men walking around. So what? Not a lot of soldiers have too much of an issue with it as long as they are not shooting at them or POINTING the BARREL at them (This is an instant get shot by unit deal here). I walk around with a firearm all day long. They are allowed one AK and up to 500 personal rounds. It is a matter of "manhood" and self defense there. When they took their AK's away, homicides skyrocketed because the people couldn't defend themselves from Freedom fighters who needed shit or wanted shit or needed hostages.

Giving back their AK's was a good thing.

[Duncandun]

I don't agree with him on why we are not using Nukes, what I said was nobody wants to use a nuke because it would be the end of the human race.

I also said he did not say he wanted to nuke Iraq. I never said anything about him not saying it was because of the resources.

Sorry, I figured 'Don't nuke Iraq because it would ruin the resources there' means 'I would totally nuke Iraq if they didn't have oil'. Guess I was stretching his statement or something!

[DeathByCactus]

man you are stupid.:D

You need to lighten up man. You can't go through life being all.... :bang::bang::bang: all the time. Gotta relax... watch the DFO fools go in circles, then at times, jump in the circle and offer up some fucking cookies man.

Cookies......:cool:

[Duncandun]

Yes that makes me want to respond to you, calling me fucking names like an infant.

Here's a better idea - go fuck yourself. Obviously your 'views' and 'opinion' aren't worth my fucking time if you can't even be civil. I've responded to lots of people even ones with contrary views. But you're just some asshole with an axe to grind.

actually you kind of started it, douche. I just called you out on your bullshit about nukes and you whip out that post on page 13. Lol nice one.

[Tdog]

Sorry, I figured 'Don't nuke Iraq because it would ruin the resources there' means 'I would totally nuke Iraq if they didn't have oil'. Guess I was stretching his statement or something!

So you assumed he said something he never said? Fair enough.

[Duncandun]

So you assumed he said something he never said? Fair enough.

I was being sarcastic.

[jonyak]

You need to lighten up man. You can't go through life being all.... :bang::bang::bang: all the time. Gotta relax... watch the DFO fools go in circles, then at times, jump in the circle and offer up some fucking cookies man.

Cookies......:cool:

I was goofing around...

I mean I hate you, you are stupid. I hate your family!! you should not have kids!!!:p

[Tdog]

For the first bold... That is only if the internet fucking works because the connection points get blown up/taken out all the time. Typically they know more than anyone outside of the M.E. will.

For the watching armed men walking around. So what? Not a lot of soldiers have too much of an issue with it as long as they are not shooting at them or POINTING the BARREL at them (This is an instant get shot by unit deal here). I walk around with a firearm all day long. They are allowed one AK and up to 500 personal rounds. It is a matter of "manhood" and self defense there. When they took their AK's away, homicides skyrocketed because the people couldn't defend themselves from Freedom fighters who needed shit or wanted shit or needed hostages.

Giving back their AK's was a good thing.


Well when your a soldier on the ground that cannot tell your enemy from your friend because the enemy uses civilian clothing then tell me its no big deal to watch armed men walk around you.

Also their internet is up most of the time due to it being satilite based and it is repaired quickly as it hurts the soldiers moral if they are unable to contact the outside world. I talked to my roomate nearly every week while he was over in Iraq via the internet and very rarely his cell phone.

[Skatlan]

We won WW2 and the wars before it because we had the stones and will to do what was necessary to get the job done. Vietnam and conflicts after it were lost based on the media and it's impact on the people at home, the pressure it put on the politicians, and the day to day scrutiny of something that should be an entirely private matter for the armed forces to handle and carry out.

No my dear, you won WW2 because germans were acting like you are now, bad guys never win =)

You are from the peapol that think that the world is a jungle and you can kill anyone in it without consequences.

That was centureies ago, faggot, wake up! were in the 21st century, ever heard of human rights btw?

Some peapol just realy scare by their high level of stupidity...you're probably a 15 years old who has nothing to do but bitch at the forums why you are loosing wars. It's not the media, it's you.

Topic closed.

[jonyak]

its spelled people.

the way you spelled it makes it sound like its a pole thats gets peed on.

[Tdog]

No my dear, you won WW2 because germans were acting like you are now, bad guys never win =)

You are from the peapol that think that the world is a jungle and you can kill anyone in it without consequences.

That was centureies ago, faggot, wake up! were in the 21st century, ever heard of human rights btw?

Some peapol just realy scare by their high level of stupidity...you're probably a 15 years old who has nothing to do but bitch at the forums why you are loosing wars. It's not the media, it's you.

Topic closed.

War and human rights cannot go hand in hand, it just doesn't make sense and it sure doesn't work.

[jonyak]

War and human rights cannot go hand in hand, it just doesn't make sense and it sure doesn't work.

why do we gotta fight anyways?

make love not war.

[Lictor]

Is it your daily goal to get flamed numerous times or something?

It's his goal to reach 1,000+ in two weeks on Forumfall. That's for sure!

[Tdog]

why do we gotta fight anyways?

make love not war.

We have to fight because if we were all hippies then we would be speaking russian or german today.

[Skatlan]

War and human rights cannot go hand in hand, it just doesn't make sense and it sure doesn't work.

Then let's not do wars at all =)

its spelled people.

the way you spelled it makes it sound like its a pole thats gets peed on.


Wow! thank you!! i didn't khow that... that comment is just retarted, were not in school...get over it kid.

[Lictor]

why do we gotta fight anyways?

make love not war.

^^ this!

[Tdog]

Then let's not do wars at all =)




Wow! thank you!! i didn't khow that... that comment is just retarted, were not in school...get over it kid.

I agree, I wish we could stop having wars and stop killing each other but well history has proved that is impossiable.

[Skatlan]

We have to fight because if we were all hippies then we would be speaking russian or german today.

Yeah because if you didn't go to Irak you'de be all speaking arabic right now =)

[jonyak]

Wow! thank you!! i didn't khow that... that comment is just retarted, were not in school...get over it kid.

haha... settle down.. i was joking around.

but ya. I find it funny that most people say they want peace, yet for some reason we still fight.

it make me think we don't really want peace.

[Tdog]

Yeah because if you didn't go to Irak you'de be all speaking arabic right now =)

Again, I dont know how many times I have to say this before someone will listen.

I do not agree with the Iraq war, I think it was pointless and stupid. I am againts the war in Iraq and have been since it started. However the fact is we are in Iraq now and that is reality. Whining and crying about how we shoud not be in Iraq does us no good now.

[Heartnet~]

You win a war by fighting it like a war should be fought. You don't measure each strike and weigh out collateral damage :ohno: You bomb X grid and move on to the next, mow down the opposition and any civilians that are in the war zone and too stupid to leave or 'might' be unfriendly, and then you move on to the next sector.

You CRUSH your enemy, and if they attack you out of a Mosque, village, or hole in the ground - you FLATTEN said structure, area, or deploy enough bunker busters into said hole to ensure there are no enemies left.

We're so scared that the media spotlight will focus it's scathing beam on us that we have forgotten what it takes to win a fucking fight these days.

We won WW2 and the wars before it because we had the stones and will to do what was necessary to get the job done. Vietnam and conflicts after it were lost based on the media and it's impact on the people at home, the pressure it put on the politicians, and the day to day scrutiny of something that should be an entirely private matter for the armed forces to handle and carry out.The knights of old had moral codes they had to follow. It's what made them different than the barbarians of other cultures. Its not just about "winning" wars. Its about remaining just in the face of destruction. And that means restraining yourself from fighting like a barbarian, lest both sides deserve destruction.

[Skatlan]

haha... settle down.. i was joking around.

but ya. I find it funny that most people say they want peace, yet for some reason we still fight.

it make me think we don't really want peace.

If it's a joke, i guess i can take it :)

[Lictor]

I agree, I wish we could stop having wars and stop killing each other but well history has proved that is impossiable.


your sig:
If a man has nothing left, he can still have faith.

illuminating peapol for a better world.

Guys, I like you, but this dysgraphia won't get you far in propagation of your ideals. Don't call me grammar nazi, I'm just trying to help. ;)

[Fizbanui]

haha... settle down.. i was joking around.

but ya. I find it funny that most people say they want peace, yet for some reason we still fight.

it make me think we don't really want peace.

Look at our video games, 80% are about war.......
The horrible fascination of war...

[jonyak]

Guys, I like you, but this dysgraphia won't get you far in propagation of your ideals. Don't call me grammar nazi, I'm just trying to help. ;)

this has already been covered.:ninja:

[Fluffington]

Look at our video games, 80% are about war.......

I guess all the madden games are the reason why kids go outside and play football. Face it shit head, some people are abusive.

[Skatlan]

Guys, I like you, but this dysgraphia won't get you far in propagation of your ideals. Don't call me grammar nazi, I'm just trying to help. ;)

I'll fix it but just not right now =)

[Kusghuul]

I guess all the madden games are the reason why kids go outside and play football. Face it shit head, some people are abusive.

Just imagine Darkfall! FFA PK'ing irl!!!

[NapalmEnema]

The knights of old had moral codes they had to follow. It's what made them different than the barbarians of other cultures. Its not just about "winning" wars. Its about remaining just in the face of destruction. And that means restraining yourself from fighting like a barbarian, lest both sides deserve destruction.

I wholeheartedly agree those were 'better times' but the wars being fought today have nothing to do with honor and our enemy has no morals and uses our own honorable ways of conduct against us.

Personally I think we should do away with high tech warfare and have man on man skirmishes with sword and board to determine right and wrong. But that's just a fantasy in this day and age.

Facing what we are facing now? Destroy or be destroyed, this half ass way we do things will never win the day because if the enemy is willing to do all that is necessary to win - so must you to prevail.

[jonyak]

I guess all the madden games are the reason why kids go outside and play football. Face it shit head, some people are abusive.

football is a very violent game.

[jonyak]

I wholeheartedly agree those were 'better times' but the wars being fought today have nothing to do with honor and our enemy has no morals and uses our own honorable ways of conduct against us.

Personally I think we should do away with high tech warfare and have man on man skirmishes with sword and board to determine right and wrong. But that's just a fantasy in this day and age.

Facing what we are facing now? Destroy or be destroyed, this half ass way we do things will never win the day because if the enemy is willing to do all that is necessary to win - so must you to prevail.

knight were not nice people. they tortured, raped, pillaged.

[Tdog]

Guys, I like you, but this dysgraphia won't get you far in propagation of your ideals. Don't call me grammar nazi, I'm just trying to help. ;)

Yea I know I can't spell. Just how it is my friend, I suck at spelling.

[Fluffington]

knight were not nice people. they tortured, raped, pillaged.

Times were never better, this is entirely because of technological acheivements making video games kick ass.

[Duncandun]

Guys, I like you, but this dysgraphia won't get you far in propagation of your ideals. Don't call me grammar nazi, I'm just trying to help. ;)

thats not dysgraphia buddy

[NapalmEnema]

knight were not nice people. they tortured, raped, pillaged.

I'm more referring to the stylized 'theoretical honorable' knights... I know the actual historical knight was pretty rough.

I should have explained more, but I was in a rush :o

[Skatlan]

I wholeheartedly agree those were 'better times' but the wars being fought today have nothing to do with honor and our enemy has no morals and uses our own honorable ways of conduct against us.

Personally I think we should do away with high tech warfare and have man on man skirmishes with sword and board to determine right and wrong. But that's just a fantasy in this day and age.

Facing what we are facing now? Destroy or be destroyed, this half ass way we do things will never win the day because if the enemy is willing to do all that is necessary to win - so must you to prevail.

Well dude were supposed to go forward, not backwards....
Were starting to go in a straight way, don't fuck this up by we must """"Destroooooooy, KILL, KILL, skulls for the skull gods, and blood for the blood gods!!""" you jsut need to get the idea that we are evolving.
And please stop dreaming about fighting with swords, it's just tard. But like i said i guess you'de prefer to live stone age like :ninja:
Don't go far on it you may find youself nuking the whole world for a nuclear apocalyps and make us realy back into the stone age. :idea:

[NapalmEnema]

Well dude were supposed to go forward, not backwards....
And please stop dreaming about fighting with swords, it's just tard. But like i said i guess you'de prefer to live stone age like :ninja:
Don't go far on it you may find youself nuking the whole world for a nuclear apocalyps and make us realy back into the stone age. :idea:

Please stop talking.

[Kusghuul]

I'm more referring to the stylized 'theoretical honorable' knights... I know the actual historical knight was pretty rough.

I should have explained more, but I was in a rush :o

Aye, Agincourt was pretty honourable.

The knights of old weren't nice at all. Kill them all, God will recognise his own worked pretty well for them when massacring.