Terrorism

[Schmaus]

Terrorism, It seems to be todays most used and misused concept.

People never stop and think about the WHY terrorist do what they do.

WHO is the terrorist one might think aswell.

IS it the arab with the bomb, is it the corporate society , are it the presidents..

All i know for sure is that terrorism is USED by governments to instill obedience through fear.


You say terrorist , i say freedom fighter

You say my government is fighting terrorism , i say they created it and are the biggest terrorrists.



When you speak of casualties , 10 US soldiers dead ,50 terrorists and 300+ civilians ,

you mourn for the Soldiers ,i mourn for both sides.

You hate the terrorists that made you go there .

I say you just made 300+ families more potential terrorists.

[Schmaus]

Imagine if USA was attacked by IRAK.

Imagine your army dead ,your wife and child killed by explosions,

Imagine the hate you feel for seeing days in a row bombers bombing your city.

Imagine you will fight for your country , and try to take revenge.


Are you then a terrorist?

[palo god]

Terrorism, It seems to be todays most used and misused concept.

People never stop and think about the WHY terrorist do what they do.

WHO is the terrorist one might think aswell.

IS it the arab with the bomb, is it the corporate society , are it the presidents..

All i know for sure is that terrorism is USED by governments to instill obedience through fear.


You say terrorist , i say freedom fighter

You say my government is fighting terrorism , i say they created it and are the biggest terrorrists.



When you speak of casualties , 10 US soldiers dead ,50 terrorists and 300+ civilians ,

you mourn for the Soldiers ,i mourn for both sides.

You hate the terrorists that made you go there .

I say you just made 300+ families more potential terrorists.

Did you just compare terrorists to freedom fighters? And the terrorists that go and blow themselves up aren’t doing it for lost family(for the most part) their doing it for jihad and their stupid religious bullshit, I am not even for the war in fact I’m against it and I still think you’re an idiot.

[inox]

Imagine if USA was attacked by IRAK.

Imagine your army dead ,your wife and child killed by explosions,

Imagine the hate you feel for seeing days in a row bombers bombing your city.

Imagine you will fight for your country , and try to take revenge.


Are you then a terrorist?

If you intentionally kill civilians to spread fear, yes. If not, no. Not that I support the war in Iraq, but many of those resistance groups are not exactly heroes. Seems to me that the suicide bombers kill more of their own countrymen than Americans and their allies.

What you are describing seems to be guerilla warfare, which can be perfectly justifiable.

[Thrill_KIll]

I replied to your other post, from the thread that apparently made you feel the need to post this shit.

http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=73674&page=2


And I don't mourn people who kidnap innocent civilians, keep them hostage, and cut their fucking head off with a butcher knife on film.

You call those freedom fighters, I call you a fucking dumb ass.

[Nani]

You call those freedom fighters, I call you a fucking dumb ass.

Now that's what I call poetry :D

[Forgin]

Imagine if USA was attacked by IRAK.

Imagine your army dead ,your wife and child killed by explosions,

Imagine the hate you feel for seeing days in a row bombers bombing your city.

Imagine you will fight for your country , and try to take revenge.


Are you then a terrorist?

That's called war

terrorism= flying a plane into a building with 1000+ people in it to spread fear and hatred.

[Tharkon Fargor]

Ofcs Terrorism is all an illusion.
9/11 was a terrorist attack not because it was done against America or because it was brutal. But because the only purpous of it was to create chaos and havoc. That is the definition of terrorism.

Never forget that. You aren't a terrorist if you are fighting for a cause and doing what ever you belive will further that cause. You are a terrorist only if your goal is CHAOS so that you through chaos may change something.

[Elemancer]

I replied to your other post, from the thread that apparently made you feel the need to post this shit.

http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=73674&page=2


And I don't mourn people who kidnap innocent civilians, keep them hostage, and cut their fucking head off with a butcher knife on film.

You call those freedom fighters, I call you a fucking dumb ass.

While in general, I agree with the fact that the OP seems to justify targetting Iraqi civilians, but I will point out the fact that many of those beheadings were of people profiteering from the war in Iraq. It doesn't make it any less heinous, but I would say those people were a little more than just 'innocent civilians' because they willingly and knowingly went into the warzone to profit.

Another item I would like to point out that there is a distinct difference between resistance and terrorism. The people that you're thinking of that are resisting the american occupation by targeting US troops and not innocent civilians are typical, and they are just simply rebels (which I think are certainly justifiable). Now, mind you there ARE terrorists in Iraq, but I believe most of the 'terrorists' that they proclaim are there are simply rebels set out to push the US out.

[Viranth]

freedom fighter
–noun a fighter for freedom, esp. a person who battles against established forces of tyranny and dictatorship.

terrorist
-noun a radical who employs terror as a political weapon; usually organizes with other terrorists in small cells; often uses religion as a cover for terrorist activities

There's a big difference. I doubt the freedom fighters in WW2 like being called terrorists.

[Thrill_KIll]

While in general, I agree with the fact that the OP seems to justify targetting Iraqi civilians, but I will point out the fact that many of those beheadings were of people profiteering from the war in Iraq. It doesn't make it any less heinous, but I would say those people were a little more than just 'innocent civilians' because they willingly and knowingly went into the warzone to profit.

I am talking about the people like Red Cross workers, relief workers bringing food and medical supplies, and other "soft targets" they love to nab. But I understand your point.

[Tharkon Fargor]

freedom fighter
–noun a fighter for freedom, esp. a person who battles against established forces of tyranny and dictatorship.

terrorist
-noun a radical who employs terror as a political weapon; usually organizes with other terrorists in small cells; often uses religion as a cover for terrorist activities

There's a big difference. I doubt the freedom fighters in WW2 like being called terrorists.

Radical...Freedom was once radical. But I belive I agree with the rest you said. Though every resistance movement begins with small cells.

[Wickfield]

Imagine if USA was attacked by IRAK.

Imagine your army dead ,your wife and child killed by explosions,

Imagine the hate you feel for seeing days in a row bombers bombing your city.

Imagine you will fight for your country , and try to take revenge.


Are you then a terrorist?

Depends on your definition of "terrorism". Technically there isn't a perfect definition.

Terrorism (at least for me), is the use of fear to reach a goal. Now that can include killing civilians, destroying property, making demands; but in the end, this is all just to create fear in order to reach your goal.

In your scenario I'm fighting for my country, with an ultimate goal of taking revenge on those who I feel that wronged me. Am I a terrorist for doing so? No, I'm not. I'm not acting alone, I'm not trying to instill fear in those who wronged me, I'm not making demands- I'm not a terrorist.

Anyway, most nations on the globe use terrorism in one way or another to accomplish their global agendas. It's been around for centuries, and it's not going away, so it's time to get over it.

ALSO, Iraq would never be able to mount an attack on U.S. soil. If you need to know why, just post "why?"

[Dhig]

freedom fighter
–noun a fighter for freedom, esp. a person who battles against established forces of tyranny and dictatorship.

terrorist
-noun a radical who employs terror as a political weapon; usually organizes with other terrorists in small cells; often uses religion as a cover for terrorist activities

There's a big difference. I doubt the freedom fighters in WW2 like being called terrorists.

I think the right thing to say is that they call themselves freedom fighters and the majority call them terrorists.
Different point of view from a biased perspective.

[Elemancer]

Radical...Freedom was once radical. But I belive I agree with the rest you said. Though every resistance movement begins with small cells.

The gray area between terrorist and resistance is when a government or occupier decides he needs to use the local hospital, supply depot, or industrial spot that's run 100% by innocent civilians. THAT's where the terms get a little fuzzy. In my eyes, a terrorist blows up an industrial depot to garner fear, but someone part of a resistance blows it up out of strategic importance. Either way, the occupier views it as an act of terrorism, and targeting innocent civilians...

[Ababoba]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=UUEShii3h50

[Schmaus]

Terrorist is in the eye of the beholder.

I hate the stupidity of people that blow themselves up to get 70 virgins and i hate people that make wars for profit

I hate alot more the people that pursuade others to do this.



One of the reasons of this thread is that people use the word terrorist so fast.

For alot of people a muslim is = a terrorist,

this misconception and fearmongering is causing alot of chaos, fear and unrest in this world.

[Spart]

You know what? I don't care. I don't care if it's moral to you, or not. When they try to kill us, then we must kill them. I don't care if they are freedom fighters or terrorists, I'm not willing to let them take control simply because people like you decided to cry about whether or not we are "evil". If you want to give up, go ahead, but your argument means nothing to any sane person.

[lafayette]

They hate us for our freedoms!!!..... clearly.

[Schmaus]

That's called war

terrorism= flying a plane into a building with 1000+ people in it to spread fear and hatred.


War is as bad as terrorism; Its killing with having a lie as a reason.

And about 9/11, that is terrorism, but it was not done by islam extremists, it was done by CIA. So USA could go to war in Afghanistan, then Irak.

[Tharkon Fargor]

The gray area between terrorist and resistance is when a government or occupier decides he needs to use the local hospital, supply depot, or industrial spot that's run 100% by innocent civilians. THAT's where the terms get a little fuzzy. In my eyes, a terrorist blows up an industrial depot to garner fear, but someone part of a resistance blows it up out of strategic importance. Either way, the occupier views it as an act of terrorism, and targeting innocent civilians...

That doesn't mean it's right.
It is never terrorism just because "innocent civilians" are hit by an attack, even targeted. The United States is discussing with Israel to attack Iranian Nuclear Reactors where civilians work. Would that been terrorism?

I'm not defending anything here, I'm just saying that terrorism is a word that is very very rarely used if we look back in history because I guess people had some more honour back then and wouldn't rape the english language for their own benifit. But nowdays anything is allowed.

As someone said on this forum. "People are jealous of success" that is the mentality of today. To succeed in your goal you may do anything. We've always killed each other but now lying, tricking and backstabbing has become alot more common.

[Spart]

War is as bad as terrorism; Its killing with having a lie as a reason.

And about 9/11, that is terrorism, but it was not done by islam extremists, it was done by CIA. So USA could go to war in Afghanistan, then Irak.

Oh that is pathetic, shut up you stupid conspiracy theorist. For one, when people are trying to kill you, that is all the reason you need. Secondly, go ahead and try to prove your belief that it was done by the CIA.

[Tharkon Fargor]

Oh that is pathetic, shut up you stupid conspiracy theorist. For one, when people are trying to kill you, that is all the reason you need. Secondly, go ahead and try to prove your belief that it was done by the CIA.

Well it was done by people who recived alot of their funding by CIA to the very least. It is also probable that there was some corruption when it comes to NORAD.

Everything ellse is theory yes.

[Schmaus]

Oh that is pathetic, shut up you stupid conspiracy theorist. For one, when people are trying to kill you, that is all the reason you need. Secondly, go ahead and try to prove your belief that it was done by the CIA.


look into the matter , realise how many Us citizens know this to be true ,

how the twin towers were demolished perfectly, how alot of people interviewed heard several explosions after another coming from the basements seconds before the second plane crashed in .

THere are numerous evidence to support what i say.

[Spart]

look into the matter , realise how many Us citizens know this to be true ,

how the twin towers were demolished perfectly, how alot of people interviewed heard several explosions after another coming from the basements seconds before the second plane crashed in .

THere are numerous evidence to support what i say.

Pity even more know it to be false. There is very little evidence to support what you say. How about you try to actually find some of it?

[Schmaus]

You know what? I don't care. I don't care if it's moral to you, or not. When they try to kill us, then we must kill them. I don't care if they are freedom fighters or terrorists, I'm not willing to let them take control simply because people like you decided to cry about whether or not we are "evil". If you want to give up, go ahead, but your argument means nothing to any sane person.



I can understand you will kill someone that tries to kill you .

BUT

the big problem is people kill others out of suspicion and fear.

If your idea of a sane world is 'i dont care' , and i will kill them , i ask you WHO will you kill? Will you kill Aboriginals , Indians, Muslims, blacks , whites.?

Not thinking about morality when it comes to killing people is insane.

[Spart]

I can understand you will kill someone that tries to kill you .

BUT

the big problem is people kill others out of suspicion and fear.

If your idea of a sane world is 'i dont care' , and i will kill them , i ask you WHO will you kill? Will you kill Aboriginals , Indians, Muslims, blacks , whites.?

Not thinking about morality when it comes to killing people is insane.

The problem with morals is that they change with different cultures and religions. You can't think about morals when fighting people, as everyone has a different set of morals.

[Forgin]

War is as bad as terrorism; Its killing with having a lie as a reason.

And about 9/11, that is terrorism, but it was not done by islam extremists, it was done by CIA. So USA could go to war in Afghanistan, then Irak.

I'm not going to argue with someone who is RETARDED enough to believe the CIA did 9/11.
go die a painful death.

[palo god]

War is as bad as terrorism; Its killing with having a lie as a reason.

And about 9/11, that is terrorism, but it was not done by islam extremists, it was done by CIA. So USA could go to war in Afghanistan, then Irak.

You just took stupidity to a new level, war isn't always bad, sometimes war is justified, not in this case with Iraq, but like the case with WW2. For you to compare terrorism with war disgusts me, you're scum of the highest caliber. And the CIA didn't commit 9/11 you fucking quack, they may have let it happen but they didn't do it themselves.

And learn to spell Iraq.

[Schmaus]

Pity even more know it to be false. There is very little evidence to support what you say. How about you try to actually find some of it?

there is plenty of evidence but it wont matter to you cause you rather believe a lie than see the truth.

If you want to believe some terrorist in a cave with family ties to the family Bush did , nothing i say wil change your mind.


I could say see zeitgeist the movie and then crossreference the data given and you will understand.
see the interviews for yourselves it starts at 40.40


first think to yourself, how it is possible that 2 huge buildings like that both collapsed in an identical way as any other expert demolition.
How 2 planes crashing in the upper part can cause such and identical demolition. TWICE ,

[Forgin]

there is plenty of evidence but it wont matter to you cause you rather believe a lie than see the truth.

If you want to believe some terrorist in a cave with family ties to the family Bush did , nothing i say wil change your mind.


I could say see zeitgeist the movie and then crossreference the data given and you will understand.
see the interviews for yourselves it starts at 40.40


first think to yourself, how it is possible that 2 huge buildings like that both collapsed in an identical way as any other expert demolition.
How 2 planes crashing in the upper part can cause such and identical demolition. TWICE ,

You must be the most retarded person ever.
You do realise that by thinking 9/11 was by the government you believe random propaganda made up by people who have no clue?

[Schmaus]

You just took stupidity to a new level, war isn't always bad, sometimes war is justified, not in this case with Iraq, but like the case with WW2. For you to compare terrorism with war disgusts me, your scum. And the CIA didn't commit 9/11 you fucking quack, they may have let it happen but they didn't do it themselves.

And learn to spell Iraq.


your quite the idiot arent you? A perfect example how you think your view of the world is the only correct one.

In dutch we say Irak , in english its Iraq

I cant write correct spell how Irak is written in Irak .


And why is comparing war to terrorism disgusting and stupid, they are both terrible,
War is worse for it is much larger scale.

What can be worse than seeing your own city bombed and bombed .
My grandmother lived in kortrijk and was bombed by the germans and by the english.(when germans took over kortrijk)
She lost alot of friends and family , and to endure this fear and loss for such a long time is terror.

I feel for her, and i also felt fucking sad for all the people in Bagdad seeing this historical city bombed to shreds and losing their homes and family.

I care for them aswell , I dont care about their colour or religion.

I know you dont give shit for these people , but i find a whole country torn to shreds far worse than a few terrorists attack.

[Bissen]

The Bush administration is the biggest fear mongering hypocrits ever to walk the face of this earth. Thus making them the biggest terrorists.
They want you all to be afraid of teh big bad teworists, when infact the chance of being killed in a terrorist attack is smaller than being hit by lightning.

If terrorism is defined as someone who spreads fear in order to achieve his political goals. Then surely you must agree that your 2 times "elected" twatface of a president is a terrorist.

[Forgin]

y
In dutch we say Irak , in english its Iraq



You're dutch?!

and I thought most people over here are intelligent :bang:

[Schmaus]

You must be the most retarded person ever.
You do realise that by thinking 9/11 was by the government you believe random propaganda made up by people who have no clue?

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/main.htm

follow it from part 40.40 and look at it , LOOK AT IT and say that all these interviews and logic is made up to propagandise antigovernment feelings.

[Forgin]

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/main.htm

follow it from part 40.40 and look at it , LOOK AT IT and say that all these interviews and logic is made up to propagandise antigovernment feelings.

Let me guess, you believe the earth is flat?

If you're willing to take few exciting little facts and make it into a huge lie, then you must surely agree with the Flat Earth Society.

[Schmaus]

You're dutch?!

and I thought most people over here are intelligent :bang:

i am not dutch

Its not because i speak dutch that i am dutch.

If your from holland you would know where Kortrijk is

[Schmaus]

Let me guess, you believe the earth is flat?

If you're willing to take few exciting little facts and make it into a huge lie, then you must surely agree with the Flat Earth Society.

look at it instead of replying stupid comments as to claiming my believe to earths flatness.

WE all know its a big turtle

[Forgin]

i am not dutch

Its not because i speak dutch that i am dutch,

Thank god
you're from that retarded little country below us?

[Bissen]

You must be the most retarded person ever.
You do realise that by thinking 9/11 was by the government you believe random propaganda made up by people who have no clue?


Random propaganda. You're a dick face for saying that.

Hundreds of firemen testified to hearing and seeing explosions in the buldings. None of these were EVER investigated.

Building 7 wansn't even in the fuckin commision report.

A 67 floor skyscraper made of steel, falling to its foundation as dust, wasn't a concern it seems....
I could go on like this for hours. So please. Stfu about your random propaganda.

The only propaganda I saw was Bush and his accomplices printing WMD's in Iraq into your forehead!

[Reckin Crew]

i am not dutch

Its not because i speak dutch that i am dutch.

If your from holland you would know where Kortrijk is

your a muslim who migrated...?

[Reckin Crew]

Random propaganda. You're a dick face for saying that.

Hundreds of firemen testified to hearing and seeing explosions in the buldings. None of these were EVER investigated.

Building 7 wansn't even in the fuckin commision report.

A 67 floor skyscraper made of steel, falling to its foundation as dust, wasn't a concern it seems....
I could go on like this for hours. So please. Stfu about your random propaganda.

The only propaganda I saw was Bush and his accomplices printing WMD's in Iraq into your forehead!


hundreds of fireman....thats a good one.

67 floors...what building are you talking about...?

[Forgin]

If your from holland you would know where Kortrijk is

LOL

what?
In this little country filled with 16 million people a thousand's of little villages I should know where Kortijk is because that's where you grandma got bombed the shit out?

[Forgin]

Hundreds of firemen testified to hearing and seeing explosions in the buldings. None of these were EVER investigated.



Explosions? how strange? fire and explosions? because a plane filled with fuel flew into a building? how strange.

[Bissen]

hundreds of fireman....thats a good one.

67 floors...what building are you talking about...?

47 floors sorry. And the firemen was more like 80 or so.

[Schmaus]

your a muslim who migrated...?


sigh ,

i ll put aside the logic deduction of you making that statement for you are corrupted by society and massmedia.

I am born and raised here, am as Vlaams(flemish) as it can get. I am not a muslim but my wife is .

Alot of sharing and potential fuel for some of you to spread your hate and fearmongering.

[palo god]

your quite the idiot arent you? A perfect example how you think your view of the world is the only correct one.

Of course I think my point of view is correct, if I didn’t it wouldn’t be my point of view. But when you try to say that the CIA planned and committed 9/11 and then compare war to terrorism I’m going to call you out for what you truly are, which is human filth.

And why is comparing war to terrorism disgusting and stupid, they are both terrible,
War is worse for it is much larger scale.

Comparing war and terrorism is stupid because war is sometimes necessary(not in the case of Iraq), terrorism isn’t, to compare the two shows a lack of understanding and an overall stupidity.

What can be worse than seeing your own city bombed and bombed .
My grandmother lived in kortrijk and was bombed by the germans and by the english.(when germans took over kortrijk)
She lost alot of friends and family , and to endure this fear and loss for such a long time is terror.

You just keep proving you’re ignorant on the subject, in war their are causalities its unavoidable but we as human beings sometimes need war to protect ourselves, If we didn’t then Hitler would have taken over the world, and much more people would have died, terrorism is committing random acts of mass violence to produce fear so you can manipulate the public.

I know you dont give shit for these people , but i find a whole country torn to shreds far worse than a few terrorists attack.

Who said I don’t give a shit about them? What do you want me to do about it? Send them my tax dollars and do some more nation building? Fuck off.

[Bissen]

Explosions? how strange? fire and explosions? because a plane filled with fuel flew into a building? how strange.


Strange considering some of the explosions happened before the plane hit. And guess where. The sub lvls of the building. But don't take my word for it.

Take the guys that worked there.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egIrVyM3FGY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rZ_K67OHWw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlEXoY1HCWI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzpaZE5XSfg&feature=related

[Schmaus]

think me filth if i condole terrorism

but to hate people for comparing the horror of terrorism with the horrors of war is sad.

[Schmaus]

Explosions? how strange? fire and explosions? because a plane filled with fuel flew into a building? how strange.

you still didnt look at it did you?

look at it then come back with your opinion

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/main.htm

follow it from part 40.24 and look at it , LOOK AT IT and say that all these interviews and logic is made up to propagandise antigovernment feelings.

[Forgin]

you still didnt look at it did you?

look at it then come back with your opinion

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/main.htm

follow it from part 40.24 and look at it , LOOK AT IT and say that all these interviews and logic is made up to propagandise antigovernment feelings.

Strange considering some of the explosions happened before the plane hit. And guess where. The sub lvls of the building. But don't take my word for it.

Take the guys that worked there.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egIrVyM3FGY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rZ_K67OHWw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlEXoY1HCWI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzpaZE5XSfg&feature=related

I'm sorry but why should I believe some random New-Yorkers instead of the government?
I have no reason to believe any of them or the government.
But I did see planes flying into those buildings, which is enough to collapse them. So for me the only logic conclusion is that those planes destroyed the WTC.

[Schmaus]

Of course I think my point of view is correct, if I didn’t it wouldn’t be my point of view. But when you try to say that the CIA planned and committed 9/11 and then compare war to terrorism I’m going to call you out for what you truly are, which is human filth.



Comparing war and terrorism is stupid because war is sometimes necessary(not in the case of Iraq), terrorism isn’t, to compare the two shows a lack of understanding and an overall stupidity.



You just keep proving you’re ignorant on the subject, in war their are causalities its unavoidable but we as human beings sometimes need war to protect ourselves, If we didn’t then Hitler would have taken over the world, and much more people would have died, terrorism is committing random acts of mass violence to produce fear so you can manipulate the public.



Who said I don’t give a shit about them? What do you want me to do about it? Send them my tax dollars and do some more nation building? Fuck off.


you have a problem with me being against the terror of war?

it might be necessary , and i am glad USA finnaly helped out in the end against Hitler.
Ever since you havent had a viable reason to go to war though.

Also you think a terror attack is worse than countries fighting eachother, or civil wars where people kill eachother or commit genocide?

You call me filth becasue i think they are all terrible?

I dont see what your problem is

[palo god]

think me filth if i condole terrorism

but to hate people for comparing the horror of terrorism with the horrors of war is sad.

No its not sad, to feel sorry for a terrorist and to call them freedom fighters deserves a punch in the face.

[Schmaus]

I'm sorry but why should I believe some random New-Yorkers instead of the government?
I have no reason to believe any of them or the government.
But I did see planes flying into those buildings, which is enough to collapse them. So for me the only logic conclusion is that those planes destroyed the WTC.


your one of those people that needs truth to be smacked in your face isnt it?

Imagine if you lived in Russia or China or Iran?

Would you still make that statement where you believe government over everything else.

I know you are only 18 years old , but why cant you watch information and then decide what you believe.

on the postive side , every government will be happy to have you as a citizen.

Doe maar

[Bissen]

I'm sorry but why should I believe some random New-Yorkers instead of the government?
I have no reason to believe any of them or the government.
But I did see planes flying into those buildings, which is enough to collapse them. So for me the only logic conclusion is that those planes destroyed the WTC.

Why you should believe them over the government?
BECAUSE THEY WERE THERE YOU FUCKIN MORON!

The fuckin building was designed to take MULTIPLE HITS FROM AIRLINERS!

Who told you that planes could turn millions of tons of steel into dust! WHO THE FUCK TOLD YOU THIS!???

Your logical conclusion needs a serious checkup.


Hmm what phenomenon is known to blast stuff apart with massive amounts of energy and momentum?

"Explosions" said the fifth grader...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IX9gdRST6zM

[Schmaus]

No its not sad, to feel sorry for a terrorist and to call them freedom fighters deserves a punch in the face.

In some cases , like for instance Che Guevare, Ira , bask and several others yes i will say they are being called both.

I do not condole anyform of violence or killing. But i do understand to what lenght people will go to preserve their own world.

But i do not believe Extremists blowing themselves are freedomfighters.

though for some others they might well be

THe biggest point of this thread is to debate the interpretation of terrorism.

IN USA and Europe and many other countries , terrorism is used so quick .

[Forgin]

your one of those people that needs truth to be smacked in your face isnt it?

Imagine if you lived in Russia or China or Iran?

Would you still make that statement where you believe government over everything else.

I know you are only 18 years old , but why cant you watch information and then decide what you believe.

on the postive side , every government will be happy to have you as a citizen.

Doe maar

I did not state I believe the government over everything else. I did state I wasn't there, I do not know who is lying and who is telling the truth. What I do know is that planes flew into the buildings. The conclusion to that isn't very hard is it?

[Schmaus]

HOW MANY USA CITIZENS HAVE DIED FROM TERRORIST ATTACKS SINCE 9/11???

you fear terrorism so much yet it seems you should fear peanut allergy alot more.

[Schmaus]

I did not state I believe the government over everything else. I did state I wasn't there, I do not know who is lying and who is telling the truth. What I do know is that planes flew into the buildings. The conclusion to that isn't very hard is it?

look at the bloody movie and come back with your statement ,

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/main.htm

follow it from part 40.24

[Forgin]

Why you should believe them over the government?
BECAUSE THEY WERE THERE YOU FUCKIN MORON!

The fuckin building was designed to take MULTIPLE HITS FROM AIRLINERS!

Who told you that planes could turn millions of tons of steel into dust! WHO THE FUCK TOLD YOU THIS!???

Your logical conclusion needs a serious checkup.

You do realise that what you are saying right know I just copying from others?
Did you study structural engineering? were you there? are you a fireman who knows what damage fire can do?

Seriously, just because someone told you the Government did it and said the buildings couldn't have collapsed from the planes, doesn't make it true.

You have just as much infromation about it as I do, we both draw different conclusions.

[Thrill_KIll]

War is as bad as terrorism; Its killing with having a lie as a reason.

And about 9/11, that is terrorism, but it was not done by islam extremists, it was done by CIA. So USA could go to war in Afghanistan, then Irak.

OMG

Please stfu you ignorant ass


You have gone from stupid to complete idiot.

[Schmaus]

You do realise that what you are saying right know I just copying from others?
Did you study structural engineering? were you there? are you a fireman who knows what damage fire can do?

Seriously, just because someone told you the Government did it and said the buildings couldn't have collapsed from the planes, doesn't make it true.

You have just as much infromation about it as I do, we both draw different conclusions.

we got a shitload more of info cause unlike you we are open to information and learning things that might change our views.

[Forgin]

look at the bloody movie and come back with your statement ,

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/main.htm

follow it from part 40.24

Could you please tell me how that movie would in any way prove that it was the government? does it show CIA agents planting bombs?
or does it show people saying they think the government did it?

If the first, then I mgith watch it.
If it's the second, I stick with my statement that the only logical conclusion is, that planes destroyed it.

[Schmaus]

OMG

Please stfu you ignorant ass


You have gone from stupid to complete idiot.

if you cant stand this debate go to a different thread instead of namecalling

[Forgin]

we got a shitload more of info cause unlike you we are open to information and learning things that might change our views.

No, you absorb anything you get told and then assume they are facts. That is not being open-minded, it's being a sheep.

[Schmaus]

Could you please tell me how that movie would in any way prove that it was the government? does it show CIA agents planting bombs?
or does it show people saying they think the government did it?

If the first, then I mgith watch it.
If it's the second, I stick with my statement that the only logical conclusion is, that planes destroyed it.

interviews from government officials
fireman
live hand witnesses to the 9/11
footage from 9/11 commission
etc...

and no i cannot show footage from this bombing being plant , its real life , not a hollywood movie

[Bissen]

You do realise that what you are saying right know I just copying from others?
Did you study structural engineering? were you there? are you a fireman who knows what damage fire can do?

Seriously, just because someone told you the Government did it and said the buildings couldn't have collapsed from the planes, doesn't make it true.

You have just as much infromation about it as I do, we both draw different conclusions.


Hahaha. As a matter of fact I am an educated fireman and army engineer with tons of knowledge in both fire and explosions.

And you don't draw conclusions. You merely agree with the ludicrous official story...

[Schmaus]

No, you absorb anything you get told and then assume they are facts. That is not being open-minded, it's being a sheep.


sigh

sigh




you call me the sheep ?,
because i looked into the matter saw hours of footage and interviews, have read tons of information.
But you call me the sheep?

You saw the bombing , heard the 'official' story and believed it straight away


whatever makes you feel better mutten.

[Rimayven]

And about 9/11, that is terrorism, but it was not done by islam extremists, it was done by CIA. So USA could go to war in Afghanistan, then Irak.

That is bullshit.

[palo god]

In some cases , like for instance Che Guevare, Ira , bask and several others yes i will say they are being called both.

I do not condole anyform of violence or killing. But i do understand to what lenght people will go to preserve their own world.

But i do not believe Extremists blowing themselves are freedomfighters.

though for some others they might well be

THe biggest point of this thread is to debate the interpretation of terrorism.

IN USA and Europe and many other countries , terrorism is used so quick .

Terrorism is the act of committing large scale acts of violence to promote fear, making it easier to pass off your agenda. I’m done arguing with you, you always post stupid comments and you don’t know what you’re talking about to any degree.

[Eclipso]

I am trying to decide if i can be bothered to cook a roast for dinner tonight.... should I?
Or should i just get pizza or something?

[Forgin]

interviews from government officials
fireman
live hand witnesses to the 9/11
footage from 9/11 commission
etc...

and no i cannot show footage from this bombing being plant , its real life , not a hollywood movie

Well I have footage of planes flying into the building.
You don't have footage of any bombing, "wrong" explosions or anything that might indicate the government did it.

Hmm, what is the obvious conclusion here?

[Mr.LichTwitch]

The Bush administration is the biggest fear mongering hypocrits ever to walk the face of this earth. Thus making them the biggest terrorists.
They want you all to be afraid of teh big bad teworists, when infact the chance of being killed in a terrorist attack is smaller than being hit by lightning.

If terrorism is defined as someone who spreads fear in order to achieve his political goals. Then surely you must agree that your 2 times "elected" twatface of a president is a terrorist.

I was gonna say something like this, but Bissen did it for me :D

[Schmaus]

Terrorism is the act of committing large scale acts of violence to promote fear, making it easier to pass off your agenda.
.

indeed ,

we have the same opinion mate

except i believe concenring 9/11 that it was cia done to promote fear (control of you and your countrymen) to pass of their agenda, (afghanistan and irak)

[Thrill_KIll]

if you cant stand this debate go to a different thread instead of namecalling

Well, firstly I see you slinked your ass away from the other thread where you started this shit. Facts can be a bitch, can't they?

Secondly, This 9/11 conspiracy shit has been so debunked, so many times, by so many different people, it takes a completely stupid dick drip to promote it still. And don't give me your "watch this video. WATCH IT" shit....I've seen it all, we all have. It is so fucking flimsy, that only a small villiage foriegn idiot would still think it true.

I'll bet your terrorist wife has brainwashed you into thinking this shit.


And Bissen, I've always thought you a dumb asshole. But you have reached a whole new level of stupidity with your newfound truther stance....ROFL. Holy damn...go die in a fucking fire.

[Forgin]

Btw to you guys who think Zietgeist proves 9/11 was a governemt job:

If you take that as proof, then this is proof of all Muslims being evil people:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ttnduq4nSdE

[Schmaus]

Well I have footage of planes flying into the building.
You don't have footage of any bombing, "wrong" explosions or anything that might indicate the government did it.

Hmm, what is the obvious conclusion here?

the obvious conclusion is that you dont want to see the information given to you .

we have live witnesses claiming they heard several explosions coming from below seconds before the second plane crashed.

[Bissen]

Well I have footage of planes flying into the building.
You don't have footage of any bombing, "wrong" explosions or anything that might indicate the government did it.

Hmm, what is the obvious conclusion here?


No footage of Hitler committing suicide. HE MUST BE ALIVE.

Your arguments keep failing harder and harder. Now go train your IQ or your potty skills.

[Forgin]

No footage of Hitler committing suicide. HE MUST BE ALIVE.

Your arguments keep failing harder and harder. Now go train your IQ or your potty skills.

uhm, Hitler would he been 119 by now. I honestly doubt that

[Schmaus]

Well, firstly I see you slinked your ass away from the other thread where you started this shit. Facts can be a bitch, can't they?

Secondly, This 9/11 conspiracy shit has been so debunked, so many times, by so many different people, it takes a completely stupid dick drip to promote it still. And don't give me your "watch this video. WATCH IT" shit....I've seen it all, we all have. It is so fucking flimsy, that only a small villiage foriegn idiot would still think it true.

I'll bet your terrorist wife has brainwashed you into thinking this shit.


And Bissen, I've always thought you a dumb asshole. But you have reached a whole new level of stupidity with your newfound truther stance....ROFL. Holy damn...go die in a fucking fire.

Btw to you guys who think Zietgeist proves 9/11 was a governemt job:

If you take that as proof, then this is proof of all Muslims being evil people:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ttnduq4nSdE

You both fear Islam so much.

its like a kid fearing the monsters from the closet.

One of the reasons i made this thread is becasue people consider muslims= terrorist.

You call my wife a terrorist and tell me to fuck out of a thread i started.

ts ts ts.....how sad humanity is ,


Laat maar vallen , het komt er toch wel van , het geeft niet of je rent

[Forgin]

the obvious conclusion is that you dont want to see the information given to you .

we have live witnesses claiming they heard several explosions coming from below seconds before the second plane crashed.

exactly

now what did the government claim again?

[Bissen]

And Bissen, I've always thought you a dumb asshole. But you have reached a whole new level of stupidity with your newfound truther stance....ROFL. Holy damn...go die in a fucking fire.

Awww. Want some cheese to go with that whine?

[Forgin]

You both fear Islam so much.

its like a kid fearing the monsters from the closet.

One of the reasons i made this thread is becasue people consider muslims= terrorist.

You call my wife a terrorist and tell me to fuck out of a thread i started.

ts ts ts.....how sad humanity is ,


Laat maar vallen , het komt er toch wel van , het geeft niet of je rent

I do not fear muslims. I do fear muslims who kill people just to spread fear and out of hate.

[Schmaus]

exactly

now what did the government claim again?


sigh

you still didnt watch it did you?

40.24 it starts

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/main.htm

how about you look at it and i wont reply to you you have to look at it.

[Forgin]

sigh

you still didnt watch it did you?

40.24 it starts

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/main.htm

how about you look at it and i wont reply to you you have to look at it.

I repeat:
Does that video prove anything?
I'm not interested in watching some random new-yorker claiming it was the government.

[Thrill_KIll]

Awww. Want some cheese to go with that whine?

LMAO

Whine?

Not whining. Stating a simple fact you have shown that you are one stupid ass. LOL....."I am an educated fireman and Army engineer expert in explosives."

[Bissen]

I repeat:
Does that video prove anything?
I'm not interested in watching some random new-yorker claiming it was the government.


So what does the official story prove?

That planes flew into the WTC. AND NOTHING ELSE!

[Forgin]

So what does the official story prove?

That planes flew into the WTC. AND NOTHING ELSE!

Well thank you.
You just agreed with me

[Bissen]

LMAO

Whine?

Not whining. Stating a simple fact you have shown that you are one stupid ass. LOL....."I am an educated fireman and Army engineer expert in explosives."

Ohh but my dear whino. I am NO expert nor did I ever say that. But thanks for trying to establish my point even better...

The fact is that neither you or your lil apprentice Forgin has yet to come up with a reliable source of info that was there that day.

All you have is trolled us down with nothing but blapper...

[Forgin]

Ohh but my dear whino. I am NO expert nor did I ever say that. But thanks for trying to establish my point even better...

The fact is that neither you or your lil apprentice Forgin has yet to come up with a reliable source of info that was there that day.

All you have is trolled us down with nothing but blapper...

I'm the one with proof for my point.
You got nothing

[Bissen]

Ohh I forgot how tedious this quickly becomes....

[Carl Ragadamn]

Why you should believe them over the government?
BECAUSE THEY WERE THERE YOU FUCKIN MORON!

The fuckin building was designed to take MULTIPLE HITS FROM AIRLINERS!



The buildings were never designed to be penetrated to the cores and then have those cores superheated.

This thread is full of stupid people who believe crackpot theories based on the government having the ability to control thousands of factors, when the government cannot even tie their shoe without spending 250billion dollars.

[Schmaus]

I repeat:
Does that video prove anything?
I'm not interested in watching some random new-yorker claiming it was the government.

ffs, I dont want you to look at it , i fucking forbid you to look at that documentary

[Bissen]

I'm the one with proof for my point.
You got nothing


Well if dozen upon dozen of witnesses saying they witnessed bombs go off in the building isn't something that needs to be investigated, then I guess you would take the cockiemonster as repsonsible for the collapse if the government told ya...

[Bissen]

ffs Ragadamn.

They stood for under an hour and then decided to turn into dust. steel to dust!!!

You do the fuckin math....

Besides I aint' saying The government did it. Im saying the investigation was so poorly achieved that a new one needs to be set in motion....

[Rimayven]

So... it must be the CIA that blew up the WTC/pentagon, right? Yep, those middle eastern men who jacked the planes and slit the throats of the pilots and caused my cousin's death are actually the CIA, motherfuckers... and Osama bin Laden is actually a yankee disguised to fool America, not a sibling of the owners of the real Bin Laden and Sons corp... thus his video statement claiming he masterminded 9/11 is bullshit.

[Forgin]

ffs, I dont want you to look at it , i fucking forbid you to look at that documentary

You said you wouldn't post anymore.
I knew you would fail

[Schmaus]

You said you wouldn't post anymore.
I knew you would fail

when the hell did i say that?

looks like you a classic case of how wanted delusions become reality


how about you add something worthwhile to this debate

[Forgin]

when the hell did i say that?

looks like you a classic case of how wanted delusions become reality


how about you add something worthwhile to this debate

I'm the one who came with proof, you didn't.

[Bissen]

I'm the one who came with proof, you didn't.

Show the proof twatface. Show it...

[Schmaus]

I'm the one who came with proof, you didn't.

omg ; omg , omg

i think you should stop taking whatever dope it is you are taking.

you came with no proof at all except a 2-liner stating your own logic,

and you refuse to watch the proof i gave to you.

sigh,

[The Cougar]

http://www.conspiracyscience.com/articles/zeitgeist/part-two/


There you go Bissen and Flemish Moron.

[Razel]

i'd say overthrowing governments with the u.s. cia because we don't particulary get our way.... constitutues terrorism as well.

those civilians that defend their country with thier heart and soul doing their DUTY arent terrorists

[Bissen]

http://www.conspiracyscience.com/articles/zeitgeist/part-two/


There you go Bissen and Flemish Moron.


Leave me out of it.
I only used original clips from youtube.

[Forgin]

Show the proof twatface. Show it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15VUbP16XpI&feature=related

SEE! IT WAS A PLANE

ohmygod

[Bissen]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15VUbP16XpI&feature=related

SEE! IT WAS A PLANE

ohmygod


Ok. Fail troll is fail....

[The Cougar]

Leave me out of it.
I only used original clips from youtube.

Didn't you claim that building 7 wasn't mentioned in the report? According to this guy, it's mentioned in the report on "pages 301, 310, 319, and 322 (twice)".

[Bissen]

Didn't you claim that building 7 wasn't mentioned in the report? According to this guy, it's mentioned in the report on "pages 301, 310, 319, and 322 (twice)".


Yeah ok my bad.

It is mentioned. But it is NEVER investigated as to why a 47 floor steel construction all of a sudden decided to crumble to dust and falling into its own footprint.

How can New Yorkers even go to work with the knowledge that if fire occurs, your building might turn into powder dust. /sarcasm

[Forgin]

Yeah ok my bad.

It is mentioned. But it is NEVER investigated as to why a 47 floor steel construction all of a sudden decided to crumble to dust and falling into its own footprint.

How can New Yorkers even go to work with the knowledge that if fire occurs, your building might turn into powder dust. /sarcasm

How do you cross the street or ride a car with the knowledge you could die any moment?

[The Cougar]

Yeah ok my bad.

It is mentioned. But it is NEVER investigated as to why a 47 floor steel construction all of a sudden decided to crumble to dust and falling into its own footprint.
Actually, it has been investigated, namely by NIST. Maybe you don't wish to believe them, but it's untrue to claim that it hasn't been.

http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/releases/wtc082108.html

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html?page=5#wtc7

http://www.conspiracyscience.com/articles/911/building-seven/#limitedfires

[Bissen]

How do you cross the street or ride a car with the knowledge you could die any moment?


Now listen and listen good you big douche.

Never before 9/11, nor after, has steel structured buildings collapsed due to fire. NEVER!

Yet on this fatefull day. 3 buildings did so. Coincidence?

[Carl Ragadamn]

Now listen and listen good you big douche.

Never before 9/11, nor after, has steel structured buildings collapsed due to fire. NEVER!

Yet on this fatefull day. 3 buildings did so. Coincidence?

That is because it is rare for the heat from a fire to penetrate to the steel core of the structure. Once the core becomes critically heated, it no longer holds the weight of the building and the building falls from the centerpoint inward. This allows it to fall mostly into its own footprint.

[Elemancer]

The buildings were never designed to be penetrated to the cores and then have those cores superheated.

This thread is full of stupid people who believe crackpot theories based on the government having the ability to control thousands of factors, when the government cannot even tie their shoe without spending 250billion dollars.

Actually, I will say that the US government has some VERY efficient departments that are very good at what they do.

In fact, the government as a whole is huge, but if you think of it as a tree with a lot of branches, you'll understand what I'm saying.

It's feasible for agency A to do something and the rest of the government have no fucking clue what happened.

Not saying it's true here, but that argument really is a straw man for people that know nothing of our bureaucracy and the capability thereof.

[Carl Ragadamn]

Actually, I will say that the US government has some VERY efficient departments that are very good at what they do.

In fact, the government as a whole is huge, but if you think of it as a tree with a lot of branches, you'll understand what I'm saying.

It's feasible for agency A to do something and the rest of the government have no fucking clue what happened.

Not saying it's true here, but that argument really is a straw man for people that know nothing of our bureaucracy and the capability thereof.

The problem with 9/11 conspiricies is that no one department could do it, it would take several working together and that never works smoothly.

[Desperado[1G]]

GWB is supposedly the dumbest man alive, and yet he can orchestrate this huge complex plan, requiring multiple departments and THOUSANDS of people to not leak the information?

[The Cougar]

Now listen and listen good you big douche.

Never before 9/11, nor after, has steel structured buildings collapsed due to fire. NEVER!

Yet on this fatefull day. 3 buildings did so. Coincidence?
Have you read the NIST report?

Besides, I'm willing to bet that smaller, steel structured buildings have collapsed 'into' itself during fires. With fires raging for seven hours inside the building, in addition to the damage the building have suffered, the structure could very well be weakened enough for the weight of the building itself to bring it down.

[Bissen]

That is because it is rare for the heat from a fire to penetrate to the steel core of the structure. Once the core becomes critically heated, it no longer holds the weight of the building and the building falls from the centerpoint inward. This allows it to fall mostly into its own footprint.


I disagree.

If the core of the inner steel beams had reached these temperatures (which they didn't because the fire was constantly burning a black smoke, bad oxygenated flame. That proofs the fire was never that hot and most of the fuel was ignited upon crashing) we would have seen a major break off with the top of the building.

When steel is heated to near melting point you will find that it wont crumble and turn into dust. It will on the other hand bend and twist into the shapes that gravity can subject it to.

[Bissen]

Have you read the NIST report?

Not the entire report. I admit.

I have how ever read their main reason to the collapse is small fires spread out in the building.

Again. Steel turning to dust. 2+2=....

[Thrill_KIll]

The problem with 9/11 conspiricies is that no one department could do it, it would take several working together and that never works smoothly.



Not to mention, to say that our government orchestrated the entire 9/11 job as an excuse to go to way with Afghanistan (LOL....Afghanistan?) and Iraq, and after pulling off this monumental conspiracy, and forgetting to plant WMDs to tie it all up in one nice knot is stupid as shit. If they could keep a few hundred people (which it would have took at the MINIMUM to pull off a thing of this caliber) quite, and working in secret, then they most assuredly can sneak one nuclear warhead...or hell, even a few parts for a nuclear capable warhead...into Iraq's backward ass.

Or the fact that we somehow made OBL, a multi MULTI millionaire, live the rest of his life in recluse in a cave so we could pin it on him (talking about taking one for the team), or the fact that there are RECORDED phone conversations via the 911 calls made form cell phones from onboard the planes...well, I mean how freaking stupid can someone believe that it was an intricate government plot?

It takes a true mental midget to believe this 9/11 conspiracy crap. That, and they counter credible and MULITPLE sources debunking it with the same conspiracy movie and a few lone whackos from youtube.

Fucking idiots.....

[Bissen]

Not to mention, to say that our government orchestrated the entire 9/11 job as an excuse to go to way with Afghanistan (LOL....Afghanistan?) and Iraq, and after pulling off this monumental conspiracy, and forgetting to plant WMDs to tie it all up in one nice knot is stupid as shit. If they could keep a few hundred people (which it would have took at the MINIMUM to pull off a thing of this caliber) quite, and working in secret, then they most assuredly can sneak one nuclear warhead...or hell, even a few parts for a nuclear capable warhead...into Iraq's backward ass.

Or the fact that we somehow made OBL, a multi MULTI millionaire, live the rest of his life in recluse in a cave so we could pin it on him (talking about taking one for the team), or the fact that there are RECORDED phone conversations via the 911 calls made form cell phones from onboard the planes...well, I mean how freaking stupid can someone believe that it was an intricate government plot?

It takes a true mental midget to believe this 9/11 conspiracy crap. That, and they counter credible and MULITPLE sources debunking it with the same conspiracy movie and a few lone whackos from youtube.

Fucking idiots.....


Did anyone else see the bla bla bla in this text?

[The Cougar]

I have how ever read their main reason to the collapse is small fires spread out in the building.

That's an oversimplification. Read the links I provided.


Again. Steel turning to dust. 2+2=....
Steel turning to dust? You're making it sound like there weren't anything at ground zero but dust. What exactly are you claiming here?

[Bissen]

That's an oversimplification. Read the links I provided.


Steel turning to dust? You're making it sound like there weren't anything at ground zero but dust. What exactly are you claiming here?


I'm claiming that what you see here " http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IX9gdRST6zM " should logically tell you that something is wrong.

This is steel turning to dust. And it aint like its half an inch thick steel. These are massive steel columns turning to dust for your viewing pleasure

[Thrill_KIll]

Did anyone else see the bla bla bla in this text?

Translation:

"I'm trying to promote a bullshit conspiracy that even a 5 year old child can see through, and Thrill is using common sense I can't explain away."


I'll tell you what champ, I'll start spamming tons of different links and studies, and testimonies (Again. Seems like you loonie fucks come out of the woodwork every 3 to 5 months hoping a new batch of people will be as stupid as you are so you don't feel all alone in the world) to show you how completely wrong you are.

[Bissen]

Translation:

"I'm trying to promote a bullshit conspiracy that even a 5 year old child can see through, and Thrill's is using common sense I can't explain away."


I'll tell you what champ, I'll start spamming tons of different links and studies, and testimonies (Again. Seems like you loonie fucks come out of the woodwork every 3 to 5 months hoping a new batch of people will be as stupid as you are so you don't feel all alone in the world) to show you how completely wrong you are.


WTF? More bla bla.

[Carl Ragadamn]

I disagree.

If the core of the inner steel beams had reached these temperatures (which they didn't because the fire was constantly burning a black smoke, bad oxygenated flame. That proofs the fire was never that hot and most of the fuel was ignited upon crashing) we would have seen a major break off with the top of the building.

When steel is heated to near melting point you will find that it wont crumble and turn into dust. It will on the other hand bend and twist into the shapes that gravity can subject it to.

The steel didnt turn to dust, it weakened allowing the weight of the floors above to crush it, once downward movement started nothing in this world would be able to stop it. The fires easily reached the 600degrees necessary to start this. Dont quote the Brit steal structure test from the 90's either because they were not dealing with the weight of 40floors compressing a single weak point.

[The Cougar]

I'm claiming that what you see here " http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IX9gdRST6zM " should logically tell you that something is wrong.

This is steel turning to dust. And it aint like its half an inch thick steel. These are massive steel columns turning to dust for your viewing pleasure
No, that isn't "steel turning to dust". That is concrete dust pulverized from the force of the collapse being blown out the windows as the building falls.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html?page=4#puffs

[Bissen]

No, that isn't "steel turning to dust". That is concrete dust pulverized from the force of the collapse being blown out the windows as the building falls.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html?page=4#puffs


The facades and inner columns of the twin towers were made of massive steel. In the vid I posted it's (to me) clear to see that these steel columns evaporate in a puff of dust.

[biggunsar]

Terrorism, It seems to be todays most used and misused concept.

People never stop and think about the WHY terrorist do what they do.

WHO is the terrorist one might think aswell.

IS it the arab with the bomb, is it the corporate society , are it the presidents..

All i know for sure is that terrorism is USED by governments to instill obedience through fear.


You say terrorist , i say freedom fighter

You say my government is fighting terrorism , i say they created it and are the biggest terrorrists.



When you speak of casualties , 10 US soldiers dead ,50 terrorists and 300+ civilians ,

you mourn for the Soldiers ,i mourn for both sides.

You hate the terrorists that made you go there .

I say you just made 300+ families more potential terrorists.


Terrorism was a made up "senario" that bush used to get his way with the american people. HE was able to use that word, to strip you of your laws, your constitution and take your freedoms away.

Terrorism can't be won. Becuase there will always be someone bent on harming someone else.

That's the plain simple truth. No need for further discussion.

[The Cougar]

The facades and inner columns of the twin towers were made of massive steel. In the vid I posted it's (to me) clear to see that these steel columns evaporate in a puff of dust.
What? The inner columns made of steel is obviously not turning to dust here, they're falling down with the rest of the tower.

But sure, I guess the tons of steel found at ground zero after the collapse were just brought in afterwards.

[Bissen]

What? The inner columns made of steel is obviously not turning to dust here, they're falling down with the rest of the tower.

But sure, I guess the tons of steel found at ground zero after the collapse were just brought in afterwards.


Tons of steel was found yes. Along with tons of molten steel. This molten steel was burning underneath bulding 1,2 and 7 for several weeks after the collapse.

yet another subject not looked at in the commission report.

[Skatlan]

Terrorism was a made up "senario" that bush used to get his way with the american people. HE was able to use that word, to strip you of your laws, your constitution and take your freedoms away.

Terrorism can't be won. Becuase there will always be someone bent on harming someone else.

That's the plain simple truth. No need for further discussion.

+1 post

[Scully]

Terrorist or freedom fighter? Terrorist or anti-American?

[Thrill_KIll]

Here you go Bissen,



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcrF346sS_I <----The main part you should watch would start 6:20. Since you are an "educated fireman" I figure you can talk about how those guys are full of shit. I like to use them for people like you, because they put it in a way where even the most simple minded can't get away from the facts of it.

They explain your "black smoke" theory, as well as what accounted for the high rate of burning heat. Also, please note the sources of the conspiracy, and see what kind of people are being taken as "experts".


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q20NmYGE-T4&feature=related <---Top 5 main points of you truther's "I know I'm right" shown why wrong.


Those are some real fast and simple ones for you, without me having to go into obvious ones like Popular Mechanics study, or any other actual expert.

Everything said to be irrefuteable proof that the 9/11 event was a staged event is easily explained away with common sense and basic facts.

[The Cougar]

Tons of steel was found yes. Along with tons of molten steel. This molten steel was burning underneath bulding 1,2 and 7 for several weeks after the collapse.

yet another subject not looked at in the commission report.
Steel has its melting point at 2750°F. For it to be 'burning' for several weeks, this temperature or higher has to have been maintained for several weeks. Given that the jet fuel and everything flammable within the towers would surely have been burnt up by then, this is impossible.

[DeathByCactus]

The amount of worthless ignorance in the OP makes this thread barely worth responding too.

[Bissen]

Steel has its melting point at 2750°F. For it to be 'burning' for several weeks, this temperature or higher has to have been maintained for several weeks. Given that the jet fuel and everything flammable within the towers would surely have been burnt up by then, this is impossible.


My point exactly. But this did indeed occur. So what caused this phenomenon?

[Bissen]

Here you go Bissen,



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcrF346sS_I <----The main part you should watch would start 6:20. Since you are an "educated fireman" I figure you can talk about how those guys are full of shit. I like to use them for people like you, because they put it in a way where even the most simple minded can't get away from the facts of it.

They explain your "black smoke" theory, as well as what accounted for the high rate of burning heat. Also, please note the sources of the conspiracy, and see what kind of people are being taken as "experts".


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q20NmYGE-T4&feature=related <---Top 5 main points of you truther's "I know I'm right" shown why wrong.


Those are some real fast and simple ones for you, without me having to go into obvious ones like Popular Mechanics study, or any other actual expert.

Everything said to be irrefuteable proof that the 9/11 event was a staged event is easily explained away with common sense and basic facts.

These are some great points. But it aint near enough to convince me not to have a new investigation.

And thanks for making a post worth reading.

[The Cougar]

My point exactly. But this did indeed occur. So what caused this phenomenon?
No, this didn't occur at all. I wonder how you link "molten steel at the ground" to a conspiracy theory though?

Or lets just watch one of the many debunkings to this myth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YXzjAKJQOg&feature=user


By the way, remember how you claimed it was the first time in history a steel structured building had collapsed due to fire?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MRSr1MnFuk&feature=user

[The Cougar]

These are some great points. But it aint near enough to convince me not to have a new investigation.

And thanks for making a post worth reading.
Seriously, all of your conspiracy theory ideas have been debunked several times already. Why exactly should there be another investigation?

[Bissen]

Seriously, all of your conspiracy theory ideas have been debunked several times already. Why exactly should there be another investigation?


So because you say they're debunked I have to explain why I think a new investigation should take place?

William Rodriguez is one. Witnesses claiming bombs went off in the sub lvls of the towers. Just before the first plane hit. Have his testimony been debunked? Ohh thats right. He wasn't called as a witness.

[Paralda]

Just throwing this out here: Bill Ayers is not a terrorist.

[ejnomad07]

Terrorism, It seems to be todays most used and misused concept.

People never stop and think about the WHY terrorist do what they do.

WHO is the terrorist one might think aswell.

IS it the arab with the bomb, is it the corporate society , are it the presidents..

All i know for sure is that terrorism is USED by governments to instill obedience through fear.


You say terrorist , i say freedom fighter

You say my government is fighting terrorism , i say they created it and are the biggest terrorrists.



When you speak of casualties , 10 US soldiers dead ,50 terrorists and 300+ civilians ,

you mourn for the Soldiers ,i mourn for both sides.

You hate the terrorists that made you go there .

I say you just made 300+ families more potential terrorists.

Your something else. Its one thing to target the army or the goverment its another to kill innocent people.

[Dhig]

Just throwing this out here: Bill Ayers is not a terrorist.

Nice way to throw a log into the flames.

[The Cougar]

So because you say they're debunked I have to explain why I think a new investigation should take place?

William Rodriguez is one. Witnesses claiming bombs went off in the sub lvls of the towers. Just before the first plane hit. Have his testimony been debunked? Ohh thats right. He wasn't called as a witness.
If noone can come up with a decent reason for why a new investigation should take place, there obviously is no need for one.

Here's Rodriguez' story "explained": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRCTkSJOViY

Individual witnesses in the tower generally have an extremely limited and narrow overview over the situation. They're good at providing pieces of advice, but when they begin to draw conclusions on exactly what's going on at places they have no oversight of, I wouldn't rely on their opinion if I were you. Most of their stories seems to be able to be explained by going through the chain of events as well.

[Dhig]

Your something else. Its one thing to target the army or the goverment its another to kill innocent people.

This is just what I am talking about. It is justified to kill innocent people in a war against terrorism. If it happens to others, it is called a tragedy.
The thing is that people think, oh well they are muslims so its no biggie.
It is funny that one thing that kills many people in the western part of the world is tragic and will be avenged by any means. If it happens in other parts of the world it is not a big deal.

The hatred overall against muslim is retarded. They feed you with propaganda to hate them and that makes their job much easier if they happen to kill some innocent people in the war against terrorism.

[Youknowho]

Did you just compare terrorists to freedom fighters? And the terrorists that go and blow themselves up aren’t doing it for lost family(for the most part) their doing it for jihad and their stupid religious bullshit, I am not even for the war in fact I’m against it and I still think you’re an idiot.

He may go a little far in absolving terrorists but it is true that we have caused much of negative emotion towards us around the world, particularly in the middle-east where we support dictatorships and routinely shift around governments for the sake of oil interests. Jihad is just a vessel through which their response to our actions is occurring. They're highly religious and it should come as no surprise that they mix religion and politics, and those looking for more support often try to convince others using religion to instill a sense of duty in them. He's not an idiot but he does go too far, terrorists are not in the right, as far as their tactics are concerned, but neither are we sometimes though it's not our official policy.

And when a bomb misses and kills civilians you bet your ass you just made more enemies.

[ejnomad07]

This is just what I am talking about. It is justified to kill innocent people in a war against terrorism. If it happens to others, it is called a tragedy.
The thing is that people think, oh well they are muslims so its no biggie.
It is funny that one thing that kills many people in the western part of the world is tragic and will be avenged by any means. If it happens in other parts of the world it is not a big deal.

The hatred overall against muslim is retarded. They feed you with propaganda to hate them and that makes their job much easier if they happen to kill some innocent people in the war against terrorism.

Well troll seeing as you like to spin this to however you can. The difference is we don't kill innocent people on purpose. The men we kill do have guns and have been targeting innocent people.

[Bissen]

Well troll seeing as you like to spin this to however you can. The difference is we don't kill innocent people on purpose. The men we kill do have guns and have been targeting innocent people.

Now ask yourself. Why?

[ejnomad07]

Now ask yourself. Why?

Its called being an extremist. They don't like us because we do not conform to their wishes.

[Bissen]

Its called being an extremist. They don't like us because we do not conform to their wishes.


Somehow I think they see it the other way around...

[kordoyn]

Its called being an extremist. They don't like us because we do not conform to their wishes.

I thought it was us who don't like them because they refuse to conform to our wishes. But that's just me.

[ejnomad07]

I thought it was us who don't like them because they refuse to conform to our wishes. But that's just me.

Nope sorry. They dissapprove of our music and culture superseding theirs at home.

[kordoyn]

Nope sorry. They dissapprove of our music and culture superseding theirs at home.

They disapprove of our democraciez too, even though we like to give them for free.

[ejnomad07]

They disapprove of our democraciez too, even though we like to give them for free.

Who does not like free stuff? sounds fishy to me...

[Dhig]

Well troll seeing as you like to spin this to however you can. The difference is we don't kill innocent people on purpose. The men we kill do have guns and have been targeting innocent people.

Nope I am not twisting things. This has always been a fact that the way you view things also justify what you do to others.
Nazist view was that the jews was to blame for everything and then it was ok to kill them.
Dont try to fool me that you lift an eye when several innocent muslims get killed in Iraq. My guess is that you get more upset if many american soldiers get killed at once.
That means your point of view is that american soldiers are the good guys and those they point their guns at must be the bad guys.
The politicians told you so and the media so it must be true.

[Kusghuul]

Nope sorry. They dissapprove of our music and culture superseding theirs at home.

So... forcing it on them is perfectly justifiable? Because we're right, they're wrong, we're white, they're sandy, we're great, they're not, we're Western, they're Eastern.

[kordoyn]

we're white, they're sandy.

Excellent.

[rockyraccoon]

So... forcing it on them is perfectly justifiable? Because we're right, they're wrong, we're white, they're sandy, we're great, they're not, we're Western, they're Eastern.

i agree with this guy. it's perfectly justifiable because of the above reasons.

[ejnomad07]

Nope I am not twisting things. This has always been a fact that the way you view things also justify what you do to others.
Nazist view was that the jews was to blame for everything and then it was ok to kill them.
Dont try to fool me that you lift an eye when several innocent muslims get killed in Iraq. My guess is that you get more upset if many american soldiers get killed at once.
That means your point of view is that american soldiers are the good guys and those they point their guns at must be the bad guys.
The politicians told you so and the media so it must be true.

Yes its not so hard to believe I disapprove of us killing innoccent women and children over there.

So... forcing it on them is perfectly justifiable? Because we're right, they're wrong, we're white, they're sandy, we're great, they're not, we're Western, they're Eastern.

Who said anything about forcing it on them? If their younger generation did not like our music they would not buy it.

[Dhig]

Yes its not so hard to believe I disapprove of us killing innoccent women and children over there.

Ok perhaps not you then. I am talking about the general opinion.

[ejnomad07]

Ok perhaps not you then. I am talking about the general opinion.

I think if you asked the general person is it okay to kill innocent people over in Iraq/Afganistan they would cry foul.

[Kusghuul]

I think if you asked the general person is it okay to kill innocent people over in Iraq/Afganistan they would cry foul.

You think? Well, they've already got more civilians casaulties than Saddam has. Estimated at 1.2 million and still going strong! Saddam only got 200,000 -300,000! We sure showed him!

[ejnomad07]

You think? Well, they've already got more civilians casaulties than Saddam has. Estimated at 1.2 million and still going strong! Saddam only got 200,000 -300,000! We sure showed him!

Source? :rolleyes:

[Youknowho]

Source? :rolleyes:

I hate you, btw. GOD DAMN YOUR WHITE LETTERS.

But here are the estimates, it's likely they're all bullshit.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RS22537.pdf

Don't know where he got 1.2 million...

[ejnomad07]

I hate you, btw. GOD DAMN YOUR WHITE LETTERS.

But here are the estimates, it's likely they're all bullshit.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RS22537.pdf

Don't know where he got 1.2 million...


White is easier to read and its really easy to find people that quote me.

But on to your source. He includes those killed by everyone in Iraq. So terrorist attacks that kill innocent civilians count in his report. The United States is not running around killing 1.2 million people. He also says and I quote.

Because these
estimates are based on varying time periods and have been created using differing
methodologies, readers should exercise caution when using these statistics and should
look on them as guideposts rather than as statements of fact.

I would also like to point out. Iraq was not where we attacked to kill terrorists. It was a fake WMD threat.

[Schmaus]

He may go a little far in absolving terrorists but it is true that we have caused much of negative emotion towards us around the world, particularly in the middle-east where we support dictatorships and routinely shift around governments for the sake of oil interests. Jihad is just a vessel through which their response to our actions is occurring. They're highly religious and it should come as no surprise that they mix religion and politics, and those looking for more support often try to convince others using religion to instill a sense of duty in them. He's not an idiot but he does go too far, terrorists are not in the right, as far as their tactics are concerned, but neither are we sometimes though it's not our official policy.

And when a bomb misses and kills civilians you bet your ass you just made more enemies.


You seem to understand most of the points i make

But

i do not absolve any terrorist actions for i do not condole violence.

[Schmaus]

Nope sorry. They dissapprove of our music and culture superseding theirs at home.

i am prety sure they like western music and movies.

just to give a small example , they were saying Hasta la vista baby , and I ll be back when terminator first came out.

maybe Madonna wasnt that popular then because of the sexual revolution in music she brought along but i can tell you as a fact western music and movies are alot more loved in the rest of the world than their music and movies are in ours .