Thoughts about Darkfall and Role-playing

[Melnerag]

NO I have no illusion of being the most original one, and be the first one to make this topic! So no need pointing out that this is 100522th thread on the subject.

At first, a little pointing out of what exactly is the difference between Role-player and non Role-player.

-Roleplayer kills when he has a reason to kill.
-Non roleplayer always has a reason to kill.

I heard a lot of talk of of taking consequences for your actions in game, but I sadly believe that no matter your actions consequence is mostly the same: the guy you meet will always attack and try to kill you! :)

Now I of course heard about the fact that killing your race moves your alignment to negative and so on, so at least you are safe from part of the people!

On paper, player-kingdoms and empires will rise and wall, war will be waged, this also means alliances and feuds, politics and machinachions. That means role-play in one way or another. Some people say that RP guilds and cities will fall because nonRPs spend more time on fighting, and are more agressive. perhaps so.

What really, really 'scares' me is the thought that perhaps most people will set Killing higher on their priority list than anything else, and that if for instance I want to travel around the world 'join' different guilds and RP 'explorer' type of character - I would be unable to because of that Killing Priority.

Your thoughts? Constant Killing, or not?

[Razli]

Not every one is going to be killing each other. One guy might not attack you becuase He ahs his reasons. And isnt them being of enemy race reason enough to kill them?

[Jonkar]

Hey Melnerag, remember me?

[Melnerag]

yes, Jonkar, I do!

and, that would really depend on the character but yes being another race is reason enough to kill. On the other hand, if all characters are like that - then I personally will not enjoy Role-play that much. I don't like polarized worlds with clear side A and side B (and C,D and so on) which always, under any conditions hate and kill each other!

[Jonkar]

There are going to be characters who roleplay serial killers and there are going to be characters like me who only kill when they have a reason. One cannot exist without the other.

That being said, because of Darkfall's features there can be alot of succesfull and varying characters.

So that in itself should be a treat to roleplayers.

[Caid]

-Roleplayer kills when he has a reason to kill.
-Non roleplayer always has a reason to kill.


I disagree.
I like to kill things, I like the shinies.

A roleplayer doesn't need a reason to kill, it's more dependant on what role said roleplayer is playing.

Roleplaying an "Explorer" is entirely possible also, it'd just be more difficult exploring the darkfall world than it would be exploring fluffy bunny county.

[Rageon]

I disagree.
I like to kill things, I like the shinies.

A roleplayer doesn't need a reason to kill, it's more dependant on what role said roleplayer is playing.

Roleplaying an "Explorer" is entirely possible also, it'd just be more difficult exploring the darkfall world than it would be exploring fluffy bunny county.

I agree on this one. For I can take the choice and roleplay a psychopathic murderer, which kills for the fun of it.

[Nehemia]

Haha, isn't it Melnerag, hows the PvE game grinding?

For the roleplaying part. Myself, I will attack almost anyone, let it be a foe or friend. Why? I want to get stronger, is there any other possible way to become more powerful than training? Each and every fight teaches you something, it doesn't matter if you win or lose.

[Kodar]

Just remember that everyone you see is your enemy... so if your in unknown territory watch you back. One good thing for explorers is there is no radar. You can use landscape, terrain features possibly the sun to make it harder for enemies to see you.

Exploring will be a challenge, but possible, although lonely I imagine.

[Melnerag]

Hahah! NO! no PvE grinding for me!

I left WoW PvE long ago and was full time RPing and PvPing...and now rerolled Warhammer :D


Now, I will try to word my issue in a better way:

1) It is a completely valid RP to be a bandit/pirate/murderer and attack anything that is not part of your guild. But when more than 50% of people RP such a character, I guess you see that world becomes...quite an interessting place.

2) In pure RP sence attacking somebody is dangerous buisness: you can have your ass kicked and die. You can win but die of wounds and infection. You can win but be maimed for life. You can anger some powerful faction which will then kick your ass and ass of your faction. In OOC sence, attacking somebody is always beneficial because if you lose...well...you lose your items. If you win you get skills and items of another person. Not much to lose, a lot to gain (for both!) I think it is safe to conclude that this makes attacking people very, and very inviting.

My fear is that such 'reward' would be far more alluring than prospect of role-play, perhaps hours of it..or may be even 'friendship' for life (Game-life that is)

To sketch the situation: two evenly matched warriors meet in battle, fight for ten minutes and one suggests to call it a draw, complements another on his fighting skills. Second warrior really likes that shiny helmet the first has, and instead of replying keeps on hacking.

if He accepted the offer, two warriors could've talked together, boasted about their achievements and talk of their heroic deeds, agree to continue fight another time, become companions, or part way and become each other nemesis.

Long Story made short: I fear that Reward for killing player will result in player always, under any conditions killing another player.

[Jonkar]

I think the majority of the roleplayers, if not the entire server are not going to be random PK'ers, so don't worry.

[Kheiron]

Me, I wont kill that often, but when I do it'll keep you occupied for about a week. I plan to drag things out.

[Melnerag]

Time will tell I guess! I like when the world gives you a chance to kill anything and anybody, but I don't like when that right becomes an unwritten duty :)

What I had in mind, so please tell me if you think such idea to be reasonable and how would you react to such a character?

I would like to be a kind of wandering explorer/diplomat...I walk the land, find player city and ask if I can come in, 'join' their Clan for few weeks. if answer is yes, I try to get as many contacts and friends as possible - learn about their guild, how they do things (naturally swearing not to reveal anything) Before leaving, i write a 'story' about my stay there, discribing their city, their members, their clan and let Guild Leader approve it. In that way, is share only information which I am allowed to.

During travels, I try to pose as Independent, Unbiased person in hope that as I progress people slowly get to know it (especially due to all the contacts) and invite me to mediate talks and such.

Naturally, I am all but ready to defend myself if I am attacked...but I will not hunt evil, or hunt good...truly neutral.

Naturally I anderstand that paladins are allergic to neutrality, and might want to keep me out or kill me..and that is okay. What I fear most is that I won't ever get to do my thing, and instead of allowing me in for RP people will kill me for skill and gear 100% of times!

PS: I know that choosing right race is crucial in this question! Nobody would trust an Ork for instance :D

[Aragoni]

I believe the scenario you are describing will only happen in the beginning, during the Great Anarchy of Darkfall, but it will later fix itself when people get into guilds. No one would want to kill a person of a large guild, since the person would probably be blacklisted and killed on sight.

And I doubt nonRP-guilds will spend THAT much time on fighting. You'd have to gather resources to build warmachines, upgrade your castles and such things. Doubt any leader (with an IQ over 50) would attack a castle with his shitty dagger-wielding army and fight against an RP'ing army with plate-armor and long-swords.

Plus we have to remember that if a non-RP guild goes berserk on all RP'ing ones then those that are threatened can make alliances against the aggressor.

This is just my 5 cents. Could be wrong.

[Jonkar]

Time will tell I guess! I like when the world gives you a chance to kill anything and anybody, but I don't like when that right becomes an unwritten duty :)

What I had in mind, so please tell me if you think such idea to be reasonable and how would you react to such a character?

I would like to be a kind of wandering explorer/diplomat...I walk the land, find player city and ask if I can come in, 'join' their Clan for few weeks. if answer is yes, I try to get as many contacts and friends as possible - learn about their guild, how they do things (naturally swearing not to reveal anything) Before leaving, i write a 'story' about my stay there, discribing their city, their members, their clan and let Guild Leader approve it. In that way, is share only information which I am allowed to.

During travels, I try to pose as Independent, Unbiased person in hope that as I progress people slowly get to know it (especially due to all the contacts) and invite me to mediate talks and such.

Naturally, I am all but ready to defend myself if I am attacked...but I will not hunt evil, or hunt good...truly neutral.

Naturally I anderstand that paladins are allergic to neutrality, and might want to keep me out or kill me..and that is okay. What I fear most is that I won't ever get to do my thing, and instead of allowing me in for RP people will kill me for skill and gear 100% of times!

PS: I know that choosing right race is crucial in this question! Nobody would trust an Ork for instance :D

Me and my clan are going to be nomadic as well. While I can't speak for my members, I personally will appraoch everyone with caution however at the same time I'll approach everyone with the same open mind. So, in your case I reckon our characters would definetly interact without bloodshed (unless given reason to)

[Andrek]

It is a very important matter that is adressed here, personally I don't feel quite so reassured about it.

But we'll see eventually.. Time will tell, as they say.

[Kodar]

Time will tell I guess! I like when the world gives you a chance to kill anything and anybody, but I don't like when that right becomes an unwritten duty :)

What I had in mind, so please tell me if you think such idea to be reasonable and how would you react to such a character?

I would like to be a kind of wandering explorer/diplomat...I walk the land, find player city and ask if I can come in, 'join' their Clan for few weeks. if answer is yes, I try to get as many contacts and friends as possible - learn about their guild, how they do things (naturally swearing not to reveal anything) Before leaving, i write a 'story' about my stay there, discribing their city, their members, their clan and let Guild Leader approve it. In that way, is share only information which I am allowed to.

During travels, I try to pose as Independent, Unbiased person in hope that as I progress people slowly get to know it (especially due to all the contacts) and invite me to mediate talks and such.

Naturally, I am all but ready to defend myself if I am attacked...but I will not hunt evil, or hunt good...truly neutral.

Naturally I anderstand that paladins are allergic to neutrality, and might want to keep me out or kill me..and that is okay. What I fear most is that I won't ever get to do my thing, and instead of allowing me in for RP people will kill me for skill and gear 100% of times!

PS: I know that choosing right race is crucial in this question! Nobody would trust an Ork for instance :D
Great idea! I hope you will find enough guilds that are willing to let you try. One good thing that will come of your writings, is that any guild you are able to write about in that way will be known as one that will actually hire mercenaries and accept new recruits (both of these things get harder after the server get's established as no one trusts new people).

Just be ready to mass death at the hands of some guilds, that might actually make you kos just for trying.

[Jonkar]

It is a very important matter that is adressed here, personally I don't feel quite so reassured about it.

But we'll see eventually.. Time will tell, as they say.

lol, Andrek too.

Warhammer not satisfying enough or something? Seems all of you are crawling over here now.

[Andrek]

Warhammer was above even my expectations, so no, not really :p

I said even the first time when I looked at Darkfall that I'd give it a chance, and if I don't like it, then that's that.

It wouldn't really matter if I did keep playing it or not, I won't be abandoning Warhammer Online anytime soon. It is just too damn good.

I'm very interested in seeing what Bioware makes of The Old Republic, however..

[Melnerag]

and no, it was like that:

Together with some people we were discussing how The Ultimate MMO would look like, what features it would have and so on. So, we were discussing it...and then somebody commented that my ideas 'are almost like Darkfall!', so I naturally gave the game a second look (and second chance) and saw that indeed, the promised features are nice.

On my concept:

What do guilds 'get' for letting me in? well, I write a story about my stay, about my RP with other members and about the guild. Which in itself is quite a nice vanity reward, is some nice advertising. Then, since on paper I meet a lot of people and have a lot of contacts, they can ask me if I know some great crafters, or stuff like that. So I think that even 'evil PK guilds' would benefit more from letting me come rather than killing me :)

[Jonkar]

I'm very interested in seeing what Bioware makes of The Old Republic, however..

Same here, same here.

Although I'm afraid it's going to be heavily carebear but well.. Being a Star Wars fan I have no choice.

[Chrystan]

I think you may get some success in that role Melnerag, obviously there will be some that just kill you outright and such, but that's the thing I love about Sandbox FFA PvP MMO's, but I think a few clans would be willing to play along with the wandering journalist and adventurer.

Only thing I will say though, this game IS a clan based game really, solo players won't get to experience a lot of the content by any means.

Camparing to RL, imagine a medival world (With magic) where there is no law except within cities, no central governemnt, just a load of cities fighting for land amongst themselves, now imagine how your wandere will fit in.

[rwp80]

attacking somebody is always beneficial because if you lose...well...you lose your items. If you win you get skills and items of another person. Not much to lose, a lot to gain (for both!) I think it is safe to conclude that this makes attacking people very, and very inviting.

The only way this makes sense is if you value other peoples' items more than your own.

I think 90% of players will value their own items more because thay have had to craft/find/buy them - the effort makes them more valuable than something they get for free.

Conclusion: Attacking someone is not always beneficial, because you might lose your items and waste all that effort!

[Melnerag]

that's part of the concept...

I stay with some clan or guild for a week or two, may be less and try participate in some of their (clearly not PvP) endeavours. So I think it could compensate for lack of own clan! Then, nothing stops me from sending few letters (since I should have quite some contacts) and go on some adventure of my own.

and yes, of course there will be people who would try and kill me outright so it would be wise to get all skills that aid hiding, escaping and ranged combat and speed.

Distract, Run, Hide, snipe with a bow. Profit.

[Chrystan]

Sounds like it could be quite fun, only way to know for sure is to try.

[Melnerag]

aye! I like challenges. Nobody said it will be easy...

but some imagination, social skills, writing skills and useful in-game utility would probably persuate some clan to take you in for a while.

Guess if you are a zealous crafter with some rare knowledge it will even be easier, and you might actually get invitations to come to them!

[Andrek]

Aww, I'm famous on your forums, Jonkar. It's adorable to feel appreciated.

There's a good difference between being realistic and a carebear, do mind.

[Jonkar]

Aww, I'm famous on your forums, Jonkar. It's adorable to feel appreciated.

There's a good difference between being realistic and a carebear, do mind.

We're always up for a good laugh ^^

It's always interesting to see people trolling our forums. We're apparently quite famous, various clans and people have been trolling there.

[Melnerag]

and, I aint a carebear. I am a balance-bear :D
In WoW I ganked as well, but almost never Greys, people I can one-shot (at low health that is).

Since there are no levels in darkfall, Greyness is no longer an issue! And since Darkfall world is so cruel I might have far less problem shooting people in their back, despite their health, especially if they did something bad to me before!

and, I have no problem with being ganked. If you recall my whines or whineposts, I only whined about Corpse-campers, Instance-area gankers and Vook!

But there are no corpse-runs and instances in Darkfall, and hopefully no Vook :)

[Jonkar]

and, I aint a carebear. I am a balance-bear :D
In WoW I ganked as well, but almost never Greys, people I can one-shot (at low health that is).

Since there are no levels in darkfall, Greyness is no longer an issue! And since Darkfall world is so cruel I might have far less problem shooting people in their back, despite their health, especially if they did something bad to me before!

and, I have no problem with being ganked. If you recall my whines or whineposts, I only whined about Corpse-campers, Instance-area gankers and Vook!

But there are no corpse-runs and instances in Darkfall, and hopefully no Vook :)


There will be bindstone camping, dungeon camping, lots of griefing and fucked up players in Darkfall. Count on it ;)

But the fun thing about Darkfall is, everyone can make a difference.

However, if you're not in a clan you might get raped pretty badly, occassionaly. Unless you have alot of friends that will drop what they're doing especially for you.

[Melnerag]

or well, if you practice all the escape/hiding skills and have eyes where they should be: you have all the tools you need to avoid large raids! Unless it is a raid of ninjas...I hope Ninjas are not implemented, right?

[jaje007]

At first, a little pointing out of what exactly is the difference between Role-player and non Role-player.

-Roleplayer kills when he has a reason to kill.
-Non roleplayer always has a reason to kill.



Dude u realy newer played ffa pvp game cuz thats a lot of bull s... u just wrote.
But its pointless to explain u just stay rollplaying and get killed for ur fun.

[Melnerag]

"Dude u realy newer played ffa pvp game cuz thats a lot of bull s... u just wrote.
But its pointless to explain u just stay rollplaying and get killed for ur fun. "

oooooh....somebody actually didn't get what I wrote! Interessting.

[Luna Rossa]

The only way this makes sense is if you value other peoples' items more than your own.

I think 90% of players will value their own items more because thay have had to craft/find/buy them - the effort makes them more valuable than something they get for free.

Conclusion: Attacking someone is not always beneficial, because you might lose your items and waste all that effort!

I completely agree! The grass isn't always greener on the other side and sometimes it is better to make a valuable allie then to fight a pointless battle.
Your gain can sometimes be well worth thinking before you act.

[Jonkar]

or well, if you practice all the escape/hiding skills and have eyes where they should be: you have all the tools you need to avoid large raids! Unless it is a raid of ninjas...I hope Ninjas are not implemented, right?

Well, you can certainly use templates for optimal solo play to enhance your abilities to escape/avoid combat.

However, there are experienced and organised griefing clans. Some will definetly outsmart you, which will lead to griefing/camping and shit :P

But well, the advantage of being solo is you could just log off without having to think about stuff such as your city bein assaulted at just that time and come back later.

[Panzero]

Carebears... Eh, I think the majority of roleplayers are immune to this now.

Anyway, The difference between non-roleplayers and roleplayers is that roleplayers want to maximize the experience they have with a game.

On a side note - After seeing darkfall, all my desire to play WAR went poof. I wasted money again damnit...

[Melnerag]

well, if a whole clan of PKers is after me, trying to catch and outsmart me....locking all roads out of the area, going in mile-long chain, sweeping the land looking for me I would be god-damned honoured :D And any ammount of griefing is but a small price to pay! Good chase is a good chase!

And yes, I after reading some arguments I admit that it is not always beneficial to attack another player. Guess I was wrong.

I just wonder, can a solo player afford a shack somewhere in the Most Unlikely, Ridiculous and Untireressting place in the God-damned Middle of Nowhere to store some stuff safely and such?

[Luna Rossa]

Carebears... Eh, I think the majority of roleplayers are immune to this now.

Anyway, The difference between non-roleplayers and roleplayers is that roleplayers want to maximize the experience they have with a game.

On a side note - After seeing darkfall, all my desire to play WAR went poof. I wasted money again damnit...

I feel your pain! I ordered the Collectors Edition of Age of Conan :bang:
Certainly is a very graphically appealling mistake though.

[Panzero]

I've gone through so many games recently, and quit all of them.

Namely - Spore, Warhammer Online and Age of Conan. In the past few months. This year would include TF2 and WoW. Man, My commitment kind of fails.

This game is everything i've ever wanted in a game. Well, not everything, since apparently you can't have hirelings anymore, but it's damned close. I've recently learned something too.

Gameplay > Graphics.

[Malokae]

Personally I dont plan to attack just anyone, or even most people. Random kill sprees just gets a bounty put on your head, and is ignorant to boot. However, smarter things, like clearing a cave/dungeon, and spreading a rumor that there is great treasure at the end of it, luring groups of players in to be ambushed, thats cunning and intelligence.

Im still shocked and kind of pissed about the bad reception that RPers are getting, and the flames that come everytime someone suggests an RP server. In a game like it seems self evident that immersion is is the one word that describes it best.

Bah.

[rwp80]

I've gone through so many games recently, and quit all of them.

Namely - Spore, Warhammer Online and Age of Conan. In the past few months. This year would include TF2 and WoW. Man, My commitment kind of fails.

This game is everything i've ever wanted in a game. Well, not everything, since apparently you can't have hirelings anymore, but it's damned close. I've recently learned something too.

Gameplay > Graphics.

Join the club! ...I agree with you 100%.

I've been gaming for over 20 years. If Darkfall delivers, it will be the best game ever made.

Until then, DooM is the best game ever made IMO.

[Agricolas]

What I had in mind, so please tell me if you think such idea to be reasonable and how would you react to such a character?



First, I am new to Darkfall, but old in the craft of roleplaying, so I hope you do not mind my butting my opinions in here.

The in-game 'profession' described is wonderful, inspired and possibly unique in MMOs. In other RP genres this could be stage managed by the referee/gamesmaster in a contrived, reactive world but that it is conceivable in a persistent world is testament to both your vision and the apparent philosophy of the Darkfall creators. However...

I want to describe my thoughts in terms of analogy with other histories and storylines. The wandering mediator reminds me of the wandering buddhist monks of Japanese cultural mythology. They were 'protected' by their relative worthlessness and the shared cultural context of all their (human) enemies that they were holy. In Agon, this translates to the negative impact of attacking a friendly race but has no weight with unfriendly races. Kane, in the "Kung-fu" TV shows was such a character, moving through a different culture with a similar condition of pockets of law and order spotted about a lawless landscape. Kane survived, though, due to his almost supernatural skills, so he is not a good model - unless a similarly great skill can be achieved.

An alternative analogy is with the character of "The Postman" by David Brin (the analogous element is shown in the movie of the book as well.) The Postman lived through an apocalyptic event that destroyed the infrastructure of a large region. The survivors, a few years on had settled into defended, paranoid communities with almost no contacts beyond their fortifications. The Postman overcame their distrust by pretending to be a real deliverer of mail, sent by the central government who, he claimed, was still operating (he had found a bag of extant post from before the apocalypse with names of real people in some of the towns). He succeeded as a wanderer by having this unusual introduction to the suspicious communities. Without such a trick, the wandering mediator is unlikely to gain admission. Perhaps letters of introduction from one clan leader to the next would suffice.

The nature of MMOs may be of help here. Many (many, many) players will PK, justifying it as roleplaying an outlaw/brute/recidivist when the plain fact is that fighting and killing is more interesting than not fighting and killing and in a game world, fun overrides safety and long term achievements. For the same reason, people will probably be less suspicious (or at least, willing to overcome their suspicions if the potential reward is interesting, since what they are risking is less than the fun of taking the risk.)

The Darkfall world is not unusual in stories and myths for having only small pockets of relative safety (in fact it was the rule at least until the Renaissance and since then in the Wild West, various parts of Africa and in Iraq today) but the dangers of the wilderness are typically very concentrated in MMO worlds. I don't know whether Agon will be different enough that a single, unarmed person could expect to walk from one pocket of safety to the next and have only a small chance of being accosted (I know that in everquest it was a 50/50 proposition if the player was highly experienced and knew the zone; in more recent games it seems the rule is that a character can run faster than anything out there if he is scared enough) A trader, just starting out in life will probably have to make a few such journeys, as will a wandering diplomat. Perhaps player caravans will be organised quickly to facilitate travel, avoiding the PvE threat but, I fear, there will be a preponderance of bandits/mercenaries/pirates/brigands/anarchists/religious zealots and random sociopaths that the caravans would be doomed. From the social roleplayers viewpoint, I suspect the gameplay could turn out to be like surviving in a world where most of the population has become insane.

I offer one more analogy, that of the Mad Max 2. The second film of this sequence has a cohesive community, surrounded and outnumbered by a chaotic mass of negative-alignment types. The community survives through being purely defensive and having a slight technological advantage. This is what I imagine the situation in Darkfall will be like - with one proviso. Unlike in the film, the good guys will not have a resource that the bad guys MUST get hold of so the constant, unrelenting siege may not occur, nor will the bad guys be pushed into a unitary force as they were in the movie. Multiple communities could possibly survive and send heavily guarded diplomatic and trading missions during lulls. And Max himself did act as a sort of wanderer, slipping in and out of the community. It could be a highly enjoyable scenario for a time.

[Melnerag]

thanks for reply!

Well, that is the reason why I choose to advance my sneaking,escaping and hiding skills so that my chance of surviving is increased. In fact, I am a bit Thief-fanatic and I hope that sniping people with a bow from the bushes or stabbing them in the back would be a good way of dealing with ...evil...people.

I don't intend to focus on mediating, more on exploring and 'socializing' with a lot of people and guilds.

[Supreme Kimone]

I would think there would be Rp and NonRP servers.

Besides that, lets say it's one server. I would think it best that all RP guilds had a OC alliance to defend against the barbarian hordes that are nonrp. Besides that all RP goes as normal.

[Shamanof_hillppl]

-Roleplayer kills when he has a reason to kill.
-Non roleplayer always has a reason to kill.


huk huk huk muchz funny mr.tentoes,
no needs reason, needs trusty weapon or sharp teeth and ghost-claw...
iz AGON.

and for dem record, j00 no have to roleplay a psychopathic murderer,
iz just run of mill oppertunistic capitalist, okee ...... maybe is iz like psychopathic murderer

How-heffer, dis iz being DarkFall ans J00 kill or be killed ... why.?
all Mahirim be knowing WHY mr.ten-toes ....
" Vegatables are NOT food, Vegatables are what dem FOOD eats.!!"

*** scratches self ****
den deres anti-pks, dem kill after make up excuses so no be haunted by cartoon victiums faces in nightmares.
ans what about dem mounts, Liberate dem.!! iz only right ting to be doing.

[Zylo]

NO I have no illusion of being the most original one, and be the first one to make this topic! So no need pointing out that this is 100522th thread on the subject.

At first, a little pointing out of what exactly is the difference between Role-player and non Role-player.

-Roleplayer kills when he has a reason to kill.
-Non roleplayer always has a reason to kill.

I heard a lot of talk of of taking consequences for your actions in game, but I sadly believe that no matter your actions consequence is mostly the same: the guy you meet will always attack and try to kill you! :)

Now I of course heard about the fact that killing your race moves your alignment to negative and so on, so at least you are safe from part of the people!

On paper, player-kingdoms and empires will rise and wall, war will be waged, this also means alliances and feuds, politics and machinachions. That means role-play in one way or another. Some people say that RP guilds and cities will fall because nonRPs spend more time on fighting, and are more agressive. perhaps so.

What really, really 'scares' me is the thought that perhaps most people will set Killing higher on their priority list than anything else, and that if for instance I want to travel around the world 'join' different guilds and RP 'explorer' type of character - I would be unable to because of that Killing Priority.

Your thoughts? Constant Killing, or not?

Finally, a chance to actually kill you!

Hey Melly :P

[Zylo]

Time will tell I guess! I like when the world gives you a chance to kill anything and anybody, but I don't like when that right becomes an unwritten duty :)

What I had in mind, so please tell me if you think such idea to be reasonable and how would you react to such a character?

I would like to be a kind of wandering explorer/diplomat...I walk the land, find player city and ask if I can come in, 'join' their Clan for few weeks. if answer is yes, I try to get as many contacts and friends as possible - learn about their guild, how they do things (naturally swearing not to reveal anything) Before leaving, i write a 'story' about my stay there, discribing their city, their members, their clan and let Guild Leader approve it. In that way, is share only information which I am allowed to.

During travels, I try to pose as Independent, Unbiased person in hope that as I progress people slowly get to know it (especially due to all the contacts) and invite me to mediate talks and such.

Naturally, I am all but ready to defend myself if I am attacked...but I will not hunt evil, or hunt good...truly neutral.

Naturally I anderstand that paladins are allergic to neutrality, and might want to keep me out or kill me..and that is okay. What I fear most is that I won't ever get to do my thing, and instead of allowing me in for RP people will kill me for skill and gear 100% of times!

PS: I know that choosing right race is crucial in this question! Nobody would trust an Ork for instance :D

This would be great for a newspaper. Some independant articles about X clan, providing no sleazy secrets are let out (Or at least just their defensive plans. Give the Duke's sexual habits plx :P)

[heroshade]

NO I have no illusion of being the most original one, and be the first one to make this topic! So no need pointing out that this is 100522th thread on the subject.

At first, a little pointing out of what exactly is the difference between Role-player and non Role-player.

-Roleplayer kills when he has a reason to kill.
-Non roleplayer always has a reason to kill.

I heard a lot of talk of of taking consequences for your actions in game, but I sadly believe that no matter your actions consequence is mostly the same: the guy you meet will always attack and try to kill you! :)

Now I of course heard about the fact that killing your race moves your alignment to negative and so on, so at least you are safe from part of the people!

On paper, player-kingdoms and empires will rise and wall, war will be waged, this also means alliances and feuds, politics and machinachions. That means role-play in one way or another. Some people say that RP guilds and cities will fall because nonRPs spend more time on fighting, and are more agressive. perhaps so.

What really, really 'scares' me is the thought that perhaps most people will set Killing higher on their priority list than anything else, and that if for instance I want to travel around the world 'join' different guilds and RP 'explorer' type of character - I would be unable to because of that Killing Priority.

Your thoughts? Constant Killing, or not?

Generally, you won't want to travel alone.

[Blotches]

Hello hello, artist formerly known as Trella here, hope at least Melnerag remembers me.

First of all, bloody excited by this game, secondly I can see certain difficulties with the Roleplay here, created by the freedom itself, for example, what if I roleplay (as I think I shall) a mahirim who just hunts in the forest, I'll be doing this with a mate, however the very fact there are two of us lends to the fact that our combat is going to be rather clandestine.

(And with what I've seen, bows while hiding in trees looks too good to be missed). The glaring problem is many roleplayers may consider this to be bad Rp, what with the no chance given to surrender etc. And no doubt this is annoying, arrows flying around when you have no chance to retaliate, what Im trying to say, with this whole no safe zone, everyone is killable aspect, will Rp combat be emoted? this seems to somewhat underuse the whole beautiful fighting thing, but could be annoying. what are your views would you be happy and consider it Rp if I were to kill you without listing my intentions with long script and me, camoflaged to the nines, standing in the middle of the road?

I think if Melnerag's scribe was to wander into my scrap of the woods, the wolf would be so confused by whats he doing as to let him through. or maybe not!

Edit, this has probaly been written before, but I couldnt find it. or didnt look

[Amaryl]

Hello hello, artist formerly known as Trella here, hope at least Melnerag remembers me.

First of all, bloody excited by this game, secondly I can see certain difficulties with the Roleplay here, created by the freedom itself, for example, what if I roleplay (as I think I shall) a mahirim who just hunts in the forest, I'll be doing this with a mate, however the very fact there are two of us lends to the fact that our combat is going to be rather clandestine.

(And with what I've seen, bows while hiding in trees looks too good to be missed). The glaring problem is many roleplayers may consider this to be bad Rp, what with the no chance given to surrender etc. And no doubt this is annoying, arrows flying around when you have no chance to retaliate, what Im trying to say, with this whole no safe zone, everyone is killable aspect, will Rp combat be emoted? this seems to somewhat underuse the whole beautiful fighting thing, but could be annoying. what are your views would you be happy and consider it Rp if I were to kill you without listing my intentions with long script and me, camoflaged to the nines, standing in the middle of the road?

I think if Melnerag's scribe was to wander into my scrap of the woods, the wolf would be so confused by whats he doing as to let him through. or maybe not!

Edit, this has probaly been written before, but I couldnt find it. or didnt look

Why wouldn't it be? "emote fights" is the most rediculous part of rp in games.
if someone doesn't want to talk, he will just fight. if you go up to someone and start talking and he directly starts to fight you, you either defend yourself or die. there is no bad rp there.

if there are two humans talking to each other in a forest, and i as mahirim, find them, i go up in a tree and snipe them without a word. if you were the mahirim and then went up to the humans and said; hey i'm a hunter and i'm going to kill you for tresspassing. you just reduced your chances of survival, and I would consider that bad rp from the hunter.

freedom isn't an excuse for 'bad roleplay' it's how you chose to deal with that freedom.

[Blotches]

Well thank christ for that!

[Zylo]

Emote fighting is bad for RP tbh. I never understood the deal of being some demigod, vampire, demonprince with massive powers, when it was just the average Joe standing in front of me.
DF is the thing, either you fight, or you don't. When walking into enemy tterritory as a trespasser, expect to be ambushed. No imaginary power will save you, only what you're capable of.

In DF everyone is not a hero, unlike so many other MMO's. Here there are a few top dogs, the rest of us are only pawns.

[Melnerag]

The line is thin!

I just have to state, that members Zylo and his old crew surely know what the difference is between killing on sight and ganking/griefing.

I will make a rather poor attempt at explaining, only to confuse you all a little bit more :)

-when you kill somebody on sight you do it because you have some imaginary or real goal (except the goal listed for ganking/griefing): for instance you kill the person because he is in the area you claim as your own. Or because he is of the race you hate, or because he is blond. After you've killed the person you completed your goal, you will either stay camped in the area or move on.

-Alternativly, as ganker you kill on sight because you like the act of PvP combat, it gives you thrill, entertainment. As you see, the line between ganker and KoSer is almost non-existant (although I think that ganker would be more inclined to camp spawn-points, dungeon entrances and the like)

-at last, the griefer, has one final goal to complement any other he might have. He likes to prove the point that he is totally awesome by humuliating his targets in every possible ways. I think that griefers are generally corpse-camping, repeatedly attacking on low health, (in wow they attack when you fight mobs, but let you die from the mob so that you suffer durability damage), spit on your corpse, teabag, 'lol' and whole array of other things.

I have absolutely nothing against KoSers (so Trella, you are spared the 100-pages long Whine-thread Template I have ready :) )

I have nearly nothing against gankers (only scenario I have something against them is when my group/raid needs me, and I am obstructed from joining them ...like in Instance-entrance ganking) (you too are spared the whine)

But, I am very bad at handling Griefers, and that is exactly what I fear the most and it is about Griefers that most of my concerns when it comes to Darkfall are about (you too are spared the whine because I know you would just enjoy the attention)

and no Zylo, you can't kill Melnerag. I will hire secret agents to track your movements and alwas remain on the other side of the world!

[Jonkar]

and no Zylo, you can't kill Melnerag. I will hire secret agents to track your movements and alwas remain on the other side of the world!

You could just pay us to protect you, we're mercenaries after all ;)

[Zylo]

pay me to protect you from... Me???

[Nehemia]

pay me to protect you from... Me???

If somebody needs to be protected from you, then theres no reason to protect someone.

[Zylo]

*adds Nehemia to the "To do" list*

Mhmm

[Blotches]

Enjoy the attention, cruel words Melnerag..cruel words.

[ejnomad07]

I disagree. A RP-killer is just as likely to kill someone for no reason. :lmao: Easy to make a reason up. Thats RP.

[vaier]

well, if a whole clan of PKers is after me, trying to catch and outsmart me....locking all roads out of the area, going in mile-long chain, sweeping the land looking for me I would be god-damned honoured :D And any ammount of griefing is but a small price to pay! Good chase is a good chase!

And yes, I after reading some arguments I admit that it is not always beneficial to attack another player. Guess I was wrong.

I just wonder, can a solo player afford a shack somewhere in the Most Unlikely, Ridiculous and Untireressting place in the God-damned Middle of Nowhere to store some stuff safely and such?

I love griefers!
Griefers griefing you, or attempting to, means you're just getting more renowned. Cheers mate.

[ejnomad07]

I love griefers!
Griefers griefing you, or attempting to, means you're just getting more renowned. Cheers mate.

That makes little to no sense at all. The only people that are going to know you are the ones griefing you...

[Calamar]

Well, Darkfall will be a bit different than the rest of mmorpgs we have out there, mostly due comunity.

Even if you RP as a pacifist, you will soon realize that half the people you encounter are bloodthirsty maniacs (based on what I have seen lately in this forums) that happily will backstabb you for a few copper and a rusty pickaxe.

Will I RP a violent person? Nope.

Will I kill every member of my race with a sane name I find? Nope, never would do that, I am a friendly person.

Will I gank XxNinjaxX or Xxpwz0rxX if I see them stalking around where I am hunting? Bet for it, with a smile and without remorse.

Darkfall will be the game where half the population are assassins or maniacs, possibly both. Wouldn't surprise me to find a bigger % of assassins, rogues, maniacs, psychos, raiders, etc... on "good" races rather than on Orcs and Alfars.

[Krish Gorehowl]

I roleplay heavily, but I will always have a reason to kill somebody. There is always a reason your character can muster.

[Cembrye]

There will be two constraints on massive numbers of RPK wandering around:

The first is going to be the faction warfare. The faction lands that have relatively safe home areas for people to gather wealth, craft and live - yes, people over time will value having some peaceful regions where they are not constantly being stabbed in the back - will do better over the long run in attracting and keeping players. More players equals more numbers in the faction warfare equals more chance of winning battles and expanding.

People will have an incentive to hunt the RPK and drive them away from the core areas. They will be bad for business.

The second will be the one-character per server system. While of course multiple account people can get around this, most people will have one account. This leads to better accountability for actions and a better chance the RPK will become known and hunted. Games where people could create dozens of alts, mules, etc. made it easy for RPK and griefers to escape accountability. Not so much in DF.

Again, this all assumes Darkfall ships with the features they say they do.

Certain numbers of RPK are a good thing. They make the game interesting, keep you on your toes, and give you opponents to practice fighting. But I doubt the DF lands will be submerged by hordes of them.

[vaier]

My thoughts:
Cawls
Boobs.
What's for dinner?
Holy shit i might get DFO for my birthday woot woot!

[Camey11]

-Roleplayer kills when he has a reason to kill.
-Non roleplayer always has a reason to kill.


Depends really. If someone kills be while im rolling playing:bang: Ill just kill them(As they attacked me first) as soon as the hit me with the first blow I got a reason. And Of course you could be role playing some evil guy who KOS anyway. It all balances out in the end.

*Nods*:cool: