Bailout Vote Tomorrow Night : Make your voice heard!

[[LoD] EE]

Contact those in charge in your state and tell them to vote no on this!

Sept. 30 (Bloomberg) -- Senate Democrats and Republicans have agreed to vote tomorrow night on a $700 billion financial- rescue plan, amid evidence that voters and lawmakers regretted yesterday's U.S. House rejection of the bailout.

``This is an important accomplishment and a way forward,'' Republican Leader Mitch McConnell said.

The final version of rescue package is still being drafted. Under the accord, announced on the Senate floor, McConnell and Majority Leader Harry Reid have to agree on the language of the legislation before a vote can take place.

Senators plan to include a provision that would raise the limit on federal insurance for bank deposits to $250,000 from $100,000 now, a move demanded by some of the rescue plan's critics.

President George W. Bush and Senate leaders vowed to revive the rescue legislation after the House voted down the package on a 228-205 vote, with 40 percent of Democrats and two-thirds of Republicans against it.

The package would give the Treasury Department broad power to buy troubled assets, chiefly mortgage-backed securities, that are burdening investors and financial institutions.

McConnell, a Kentucky Republican, said earlier today that a plunge in U.S. stocks after the House vote showed the urgent need for Congress to act.

``The message from the markets yesterday was clear,'' McConnell said.

Sweetened Package

The House vote, a rebuke to Bush and leaders of both parties in Congress, triggered angry recriminations and the biggest one- day point drop in the history of the Dow Jones Industrial Average.

Stocks rose today, suggesting investor optimism that Congress would revive the rescue package. The Dow rose 485 points, or 4.7 percent, to 10,850.66, in New York.

Voters flooded Capitol Hill offices with calls and e-mails decrying the defeat of the rescue package, a House Republican leadership aide said. Prior to yesterday's tally, lawmakers said sentiment was running about 100-1 against the plan.

Bush promised today that the House vote wouldn't be the final word. ``I realize this is a difficult vote for members of Congress,'' he said today. ``But the reality is that we're in an urgent situation and the consequences will grow worse every day.''

`Number One Goal'

Reid, a Nevada Democrat, agreed. ``This continues to be our number one goal,'' he said.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said House members will continue their efforts to come up with a plan that can ``win strong bipartisan approval'' in that chamber.

``House Democrats remain strongly committed to a comprehensive bill that stabilizes the financial markets, restores confidence, and protects taxpayers,'' she said in a statement. ``We hope Congress can agree on legislation in the very near future.''

Stacey Bernards, a spokeswoman for House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, said the earliest the House can take action is Thursday.

To sweeten the package for opponents, the bill would give authority to the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. to raise the size of bank accounts the agency guarantees.

FDIC Chairman Sheila Bair today asked for temporary authority to raise the insurance limits.

Obama, McCain

The move was endorsed by Republican presidential nominee John McCain and Democratic opponent Barack Obama. Both Obama and McCain plan to return to Washington for tomorrow's vote, their aides said.

Also included would be Senate-passed legislation to renew $148.6 billion in temporary tax breaks for corporations and individuals. The tax legislation, approved by a 93-2 vote in the Senate on Sept. 23, would spare 24 million households from a $61.8 billion alternative-minimum tax that is due to take effect this year.

Reid said he is in contact with White House Chief of Staff Josh Bolten. Also, Reid said Obama informed him he talked to Bush about the plan.

Working Together

``We're working together to try to resolve this important issue,'' Reid said.

Senate Banking Committee Chairman Christopher Dodd, a Connecticut Democrat, said some House members who voted down the plan are now having ``second thoughts'' and `want ``another shot at this.''

There were no votes scheduled today in the House or Senate in observance of the Jewish New Year Rosh Hashanah.

[Malhavok]

Stocks rose today, suggesting investor optimism that Congress would revive the rescue package. The Dow rose 485 points, or 4.7 percent, to 10,850.66, in New York.

:bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang:

[palo god]

I refuse to vote for ANYONE that is for the bailout, EVER.

[Ghostpaw]

Stocks rose today, suggesting investor optimism that Congress would revive the rescue package. The Dow rose 485 points, or 4.7 percent, to 10,850.66, in New York.

:bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang:

What the hell? How did they come up with that conclusion?

[Battle]

WTF? This was just rejected 2 days ago. Can they just keep voting on something until it passes?

I would email my congressmen, but the government sites are so swamped that I cant. This is bullshit, are they intentionally blocking the email so our voices are not heard?

[Ammon777]

Its pretty fucking clear that "our" congressmen dont give a shit what we think.
They are all deadset on passing this and I think this version will pass. You cant argue with a government that ignores you. The reason why it didnt pass the first time was because they were worried about their re-election prospects.

THATS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU HAVE CAREER POLITICIANS.

Remove politics from being a career for people by restricting them to a single term and nothing else, and JUST MAYBE we could regain control of the government. Until then, this govt isnt interested in the people, anymore. Politicians only care about their careers. The President doesnt even honor the Constitution.

I am really ashamed of my country. Fuck you guys.

[Skyborn]

This is sad...

Fucking tunnel vision...these assholes in congress are worse than a horse with blinders walking down a narrow alley.

[Ghostpaw]

WTF? This was just rejected 2 days ago. Can they just keep voting on something until it passes?

I would email my congressmen, but the government sites are so swamped that I cant. This is bullshit, are they intentionally blocking the email so our voices are not heard?

You can try emailing their interns using the contact information on their business cards if you can't seem to reach your congressman.

[Xtra-Medium]

wont this bailout devalue the dollar allot?

[[LoD] EE]

wont this bailout devalue the dollar allot?

Yep!

You think the 6% Inflation we have had this year is bad... you just wait!

[rockyraccoon]

EE;1758664']Yep!

You think the 6% Inflation we have had this year is bad... you just wait!

ontop of that the mexicanz are teh invadingz. so LOD EE how do you feel about the brown menace?

[Byggin]

All the websites were you can send your congressman a message are fucked tonight.

https://forms.house.gov/wyr/welcome.shtml

http://www.house.gov/

I can't get through on either.

[Rokolith]

so much fucking spin its not even funny. Fuck the new corps they are all going to go to hell for this shit.

[rockyraccoon]

EE;1758664']Yep!

You think the 6% Inflation we have had this year is bad... you just wait!

ontop of that the mexicanz are teh invadingz. so LOD EE how do you feel about the brown menace?

[[LoD] EE]

ontop of that the mexicanz are teh invadingz. so LOD EE how do you feel about the brown menace?

Illegal isnt a color, Illegal isnt a race.

You on the other hand, spelling like that should be illegal. ;)

[Jebsta16]

and you think your votes count for anything, hah! all the government does is play games with us and make sure their pockets are stacked. no government official really gives a shit about us. i lost faith in politics years ago. it makes me really glad i never got involved. the way ron paul was done this year shows that this country will always be run by crooks. by not voting i wont be apart of electing a crook.

[rockyraccoon]

EE;1758696']Illegal isnt a color, Illegal isnt a race.

You on the other hand, spelling like that should be illegal. ;)

well illegal is mostly mexican and mostly brown.

[Entreri]

Those malicious bastards! How dare they try and fix the problem and avoid another depression.

Should be a nice little rally tomorrow from this, like there was today.

[[LoD] EE]

well illegal is mostly mexican and mostly brown.

Of course it is, what would you expect having a 3rd world nation ( Mexico ) right next door.

1100+ Got rounded up in So Cal over the last couple weeks. (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-09-29-california-illegal-immigrants-arrests_N.htm)

1100 more parasites eradicated.

[Kraven]

why bail out people who have enough money to be fine after losing most of their money?

darwin votes no

[[LoD] EE]

Those malicious bastards! How dare they try and fix the problem and avoid another depression.

Should be a nice little rally tomorrow from this, like there was today.

Are you a moron? You do realize that pumping $700 billion wont fix a broken financial system?

[Feyrband]

EE;1758696']Illegal isnt a color, Illegal isnt a race.

You on the other hand, spelling like that should be illegal. ;)

i've been spending too so much time in general i actually read that and didnt notice.

[Protonix]

You guys don't need the websites to email your congress critters...

[Killuminati]

Those malicious bastards! How dare they try and fix the problem and avoid another depression.

Should be a nice little rally tomorrow from this, like there was today.

I'm with stupid.

[[LoD] EE]

i've been spending too so much time in general i actually read that and didnt notice.

I got banned from the Tf2 forums for telling some retarded motherfucker the difference between Nub and Noob.

At least here, I dont. Regardless, people who post like that should be removed from the forums with a quickness.

Now on to the retards who will respond like that in...

3....
2....
1....

[stalwart]

what i don't understand about the senate trying to do this is this:

Article 1, Section 7 of the Constitution states:
"All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of
Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as
on other Bills."

[DeathByCactus]

I think it is clear that only Civil War can stop this....

*OH SHIT THE FEDS ARE COMING*

[Septus]

EE;1758740']Are you a moron? You do realize that pumping $700 billion wont fix a broken financial system?

I'm curious to hear your take on what's broken and what the $700 bn would/wouldn't do.

[Erroneous]

what i don't understand about the senate trying to do this is this:

Article 1, Section 7 of the Constitution states:
"All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of
Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as
on other Bills."

This is an amendment its got a funny title: To amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to provide earnings assistance and tax relief to members of the uniformed services, volunteer firefighters, and Peace Corps volunteers, and for other purposes
(http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2008/roll674.xml)

[losinglife]

i was able to email just fine. But i used downsizedc.org email system

[Jargo]

EE;1758732']Of course it is, what would you expect having a 3rd world nation ( Mexico ) right next door.

1100+ Got rounded up in So Cal over the last couple weeks. (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-09-29-california-illegal-immigrants-arrests_N.htm)

1100 more parasites eradicated.

Wow, you really fucking hate Mexicans don’t you?

[Vanno]

Stocks rose today, suggesting investor optimism that Congress would revive the rescue package. The Dow rose 485 points, or 4.7 percent, to 10,850.66, in New York.

:bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang:

I concur, complete nonsense.

[Baralis]

I will not tell them to vote no just as I do not support it simply because I do not know what all it intitles. I do believe the government needs to do something. For all of you that are completly against government intervention I dont think you realize the full extint of hurt the US will be in if they do not.

Everyone seems to think that when the economy crumbles that they will be fine and it wont affect them. Im telling you that you are wrong. It will affect every single person in the US.

[Lictor]

WTF? This was just rejected 2 days ago. Can they just keep voting on something until it passes?

They can, welcome to the world of illusory democracy (the same shit is here, in EU).

I would email my congressmen, but the government sites are so swamped that I cant. This is bullshit, are they intentionally blocking the email so our voices are not heard?

I wouldn't go paranoid and conspiracy-everywhereoid. Probably a good sign, you're not the only one, who wants to email your congressmen and servers do not cope with the traffic.

[[LoD] EE]

I'm curious to hear your take on what's broken and what the $700 bn would/wouldn't do.

I am not financial adviser, hell, I have a 8th or 9th grade education ( depending on if you count last grade completed or credits for passed grades ).

The reason its fucked is because its fucked. You have companies who made bad business decisions by giving bad loans to bad people who could not afford to pay. You had people getting loans with false numbers crunched to allow them to pass. You had banks who preyed on people who could not afford to pay loans that they were paying just the interest on for 5 years because the banks hoped they would foreclose so the banks could then resell the property and make lots of money. Problem was, the market crashed, the property became worthless and the banks got caught with their genitals in their hands in the middle of a park full of people and were busted.

Everything about what was going on was full of fail, the banks basically did an ENRON with fudging their paperwork. You can find this info if you look, its been on all the news sites. All the bail out does is reward the companies that didnt do their job right, keeping them open, so they can do it again. What is going to stop a company from doing it again if they know they will get one rubbed out by the government any time they need it?

If these companies are too big to fail, they should have been broken up long ago for just that reason, so that if they do fail it doesnt cause a major crash like it is currently doing. Bankruptcy is the answer, its worked before, it will work again.

Washington Mutual Gives $615,000 Mortgage To Illegal Immigrant Making $9 An Hour Who Can't Read Or Write English? (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080925200030AA1CxcH)

[[LoD] EE]

Wow, you really fucking hate Mexicans don’t you?

Nope, far from hate them. I lived with a Mexican family for a while ( rented a room ) and dated several in my life.

I hate illegals though, they are nothing but fleas and ticks on society.

[Barbarossa]

EE;1759674']I am not financial adviser, hell, I have a 8th or 9th grade education ( depending on if you count last grade completed or credits for passed grades ).

The reason its fucked is because its fucked.

I stopped reading after this because it pretty much tells me all I need to know, about this thread and about the OP.

/thread

[[LoD] EE]

I stopped reading after this because it pretty much tells me all I need to know, about this thread and about the OP.

/thread

Lol.

I love your too sweetums.

[Protonix]

I concur, complete nonsense.

really? complete? you don't think that the speculation had absolutely any impact whatsoever?

[Vanno]

really? complete? you don't think that the speculation had absolutely any impact whatsoever?

Speculation always has impact (speculation is essentially what makes a market), but that wasn't my objection. The objection was the way in which the media is taking a completely one-sided, positive, view of the bill.

If you are asking whether or not the headlines of new bailout talks made a huge difference, I don't believe they did. Here is an interesting article that would support that view.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/01/opinion/01buchanan.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink

[Elemancer]

really? complete? you don't think that the speculation had absolutely any impact whatsoever?

Stocks were rising well before the senate decided to revive this bill...so yea, correlation vs causation my friend.

The reason for the rise in stocks was a simple deadcat bounce. Headlines very rarely make stocks fail or flourish, hate to break that to you.

[Protonix]

Stocks were rising well before the senate decided to revive this bill...so yea, correlation vs causation my friend.

The reason for the rise in stocks was a simple deadcat bounce. Headlines very rarely make stocks fail or flourish, hate to break that to you.

Right.

Because no one expected the bill to be revived.

I'm not saying that the thought of the bill revival brought the dow up the 485 points or whatever, but to say it had absolutely no impact whatsoever seems silly. Just as it would seem silly to suggest that the 777 point drop had nothing to do with the failure of the bill to pass the first time.

[Tdog]

I will not tell them to vote no just as I do not support it simply because I do not know what all it intitles. I do believe the government needs to do something. For all of you that are completly against government intervention I dont think you realize the full extint of hurt the US will be in if they do not.

Everyone seems to think that when the economy crumbles that they will be fine and it wont affect them. Im telling you that you are wrong. It will affect every single person in the US.

Look I dont know what others are thinking but for myself.

I do not like the idea of throwing money at this problem until we know exactly what the problem is and how to fix the problem.

Spending money and hoping it fixes something is not the answer, it will never be the answer.

We do NOT need a short term fix, we need a long term solution, something that will not allow this to happen again.

My biggest fear with this whole bail out plan is that we are going to spend this 700 billion dollars and then a few years later the same bullshit is going to happen. Then what? We spend more money?

Lets stop trying to rush though a fucking short term plan that might or might not work and lets start trying to find a long term solution that will fix our Economy for the future.

I do not approve the current bail out plan for 2 reasons.
1. We do not know if this bail out plan will even work.
2. We need to fix this mess for the long term, not the short term.

Can you understand that?
Also I want to know how they came to the 700 billion dollar number, Why 700 billion? Why not 500 billion? Show me the numbers on why we need to spend 700 billion? Show me the numbers that spending this money will fix the problem for the long term.

I am not asking to much as a tax payer.

[Skyborn]

Like many things lately in the US gov't the way this bailout has been handled makes me suspicious of intentions...It's hard for me to support something pushed so strongly by people I cannot trust.

[Crunk]

The bill is a lot deeper than you guys realize or else you would be in support.

The government is buying the toxic loans, most if not many will be paid off, and they will sell them back.

Crying over the milk of bad decisions is going to freeze the credit market nationwide. Preventing this from happening again is a must but more pressing is allowing credit to flow.

Simply put this bill will stop the rapid rise in the cost of credit. Try to get a loan from any bank and see how far you get unless your rating is stellar.

You guys have a monopoly on the internet tuff guy act. Doesn't change what needs to be done.

[Tdog]

The bill is a lot deeper than you guys realize or else you would be in support.

The government is buying the toxic loans, most if not many will be paid off, and they will sell them back.

Crying over the milk of bad decisions is going to freeze the credit market nationwide. Preventing this from happening again is a must but more pressing is allowing credit to flow.

Simply put this bill will stop the rapid rise in the cost of credit. Try to get a loan from any bank and see how far you get unless your rating is stellar.

You guys have a monopoly on the internet tuff guy act. Doesn't change what needs to be done.

IF this is true then why not explain the full plan, how it will fix the problem in the short and long terms, why we got to the 700 billion dollar figure, How the money will be spend, what the plan is to turn these assets into money for us tax payers?

Why can't the goverment answer these questions? Why must we pass this bill without answer the many questions we as the American public are asking?

Its a very simple answer, the goverment, nor you or anyone else have all the answers, instead they want to make us scared and use that fear to pass this bill.

Answer the god dam questions and maybe the American public will support the bill.
How will this money be spent?
How will this help in the short term?
How will this help in the long term?
How will this stop this from happening again?
Where did the 700 billion dollar figure come from?
How does the goverment hope to turn a profit?
Why is important to pass this bill quickly?
What happens if this does not solve the issue?
What happens if this happens again in 5 years? 10 years? 20 years?
What caused this problem in the first place?

Common sense for the win.

[Crunk]

Small businesses, student loans, car loans, it's going to tighten up and the economic ramifications will be pretty damn awful. It's not a crisis yet, but it could morph into one real quick.

Why people hate Wall St. might as well hate Mr. Clean. It's integrated to the point where shockwaves on one end will reverberate to the other. The wealth effect of the stock market during Clinton's era transferred wealth to Joe Q. Public, no one was complaining then.

Who's to blame? Everyone that lent to those who shouldn't, those who borrowed who knew they couldn't, and the market makers who traded the debt in forms of credit default swaps while shorting the stocks. It's like a market wide margin call, and the banks were caught with their asses exposed.

The banks, all of them could've survived, but when panic set in, fear caused their ultimate end. Becaue of overreaction and manipulation they went under even though if the market worked in an efficient manner, this could've been avoided. Fear and greed drives the market. Don't hate it, it's America's way after all since the beginning, it's human nature like a knee jerk reaction.

What needs to happen is either A.) Amendments to out dated regulations SEC, NASD, SIPC, FDIC, etc., or B.) entirely new Acts to address the new age of investing/borrowing/lending.

[Elemancer]

Small businesses, student loans, car loans, it's going to tighten up and the economic ramifications will be pretty damn awful. It's not a crisis yet, but it could morph into one real quick.



Why hasn't it tightened yet? Last I checked I'm getting loan offers out the butthole.

[Kapetan_Jebach]

:sly:politics on DFO , yuck

[Crunk]

Why hasn't it tightened yet? Last I checked I'm getting loan offers out the butthole.

It has not spread to everyone, but rest assured, you will hear about it more and more.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2008/09/26/financial/f143019D04.DTL&feed=rss.business

[Entreri]

Answer the god dam questions and maybe the American public will support the bill.
How will this money be spent?
How will this help in the short term?
How will this help in the long term?
How will this stop this from happening again?
Where did the 700 billion dollar figure come from?
How does the goverment hope to turn a profit?
Why is important to pass this bill quickly?
What happens if this does not solve the issue?
What happens if this happens again in 5 years? 10 years? 20 years?
What caused this problem in the first place?


1. Most of the money will be spent to buy MBS to get them off the banks balance sheets.
2. The banks will have the money from the government so they can lend it out and avoid a credit freeze.
3. Businesses and consumers will continue to have access to credit, the economy will grow normally.
4. New regulations and hopefully people learning their lesson will keep it from happening again.
5. I assume the 700B is what they calculated it to be, I don't really know.
6. The MBS are worth very little now, however, when the housing market and economy improves they will have much more value.
7. It is important to pass it quickly to avoid a credit freeze and to keep the US and the world out of a depression.
8. If it doesn't solve the issue then at least we tried rather than letting the world go into a depression.
9. If the problem arises again it will probably be dealt with the same way. This specific scenario has never happened and regulations and lessons learned should keep it from happening again.
10. We've been over what caused it too many time already. I will repost later if you don't want to learn about it, I am short on time right now.

[tallefred]

Hey Southerners... I think it's time for you to rise again. Now.

[Aragoni]

When is the vote?
Edit: And will it still be on C-SPAN?

[Malhavok]

1. Most of the money will be spent to buy MBS to get them off the banks balance sheets.
2. The banks will have the money from the government so they can lend it out and avoid a credit freeze.
3. Businesses and consumers will continue to have access to credit, the economy will grow normally.
4. New regulations and hopefully people learning their lesson will keep it from happening again.
5. I assume the 700B is what they calculated it to be, I don't really know.
6. The MBS are worth very little now, however, when the housing market and economy improves they will have much more value.
7. It is important to pass it quickly to avoid a credit freeze and to keep the US and the world out of a depression.
8. If it doesn't solve the issue then at least we tried rather than letting the world go into a depression.
9. If the problem arises again it will probably be dealt with the same way. This specific scenario has never happened and regulations and lessons learned should keep it from happening again.
10. We've been over what caused it too many time already. I will repost later if you don't want to learn about it, I am short on time right now.

1) Wrong. Money will be spent and the discretion of the Treasury.
2) Yes, and the Federal Reserve can do that just fine with out buying junk assets.
3) Again, the Fed is perfectly capable of accomplishing this with its usual liquidity injections.
4) Nothing about regulations was in this bill.
5) The 700B figure is what Paulson want as a blank check. There is no greater significance to it as Paulson does not deem it necessary to reveal any specifics and would rather just use scare tactics.
6) Whether or not a profit is possible depends on how they are bought. To keep the banks liquid debt/equity ratios must be maintained. Buying up the near useless MBS at a "fair" value would just worsen the debt/equity ratios. The junk MBS will need to be bought at a high premium to improve the debt/equity ratios of the banks. The higher the premium the fewer junk MBS must be cleared off the books. The higher the premium the less likely that as the market recovers the gov't will make a profit. Turning a profit is directly contradictory to the stated objective of the bail out. Don't expect it, it's mostly rose colored glasses talk from legislators trying to paint a picture.
7) Because it's a POS bill and anyone who takes the time to consider it and its implications begins to have serious questions. Paulson didn't want to wait a week he wanted his 700B NOW. Look what happened when it got delayed a week. It's the PATRIOT Act syndrome. Fake a need for urgency and you can ensure an overly broad and easily abused piece of legislation is pushed through. That week bought deliberation and restrictions on the blank check as well as doubt.
8) We'd only have doubled this years deficit we can always throw more money at it like always later.
9) Then we'll throw more money at it.
10) Bad policy. Bad Policy caused it so obviously more bad policy will fix it, or so the rational goes.

[Razel]

everyone of them should be in prision, politicians included

[Lacker]

The bill is a lot deeper than you guys realize or else you would be in support.

The government is buying the toxic loans, most if not many will be paid off, and they will sell them back.

Crying over the milk of bad decisions is going to freeze the credit market nationwide. Preventing this from happening again is a must but more pressing is allowing credit to flow.

Simply put this bill will stop the rapid rise in the cost of credit. Try to get a loan from any bank and see how far you get unless your rating is stellar.

You guys have a monopoly on the internet tuff guy act. Doesn't change what needs to be done.

Tell that to the Japanese. Their central bank still holds nearly a trillion in bad loans from the 90s. The only reason their economy didn't collapse is that the public had massive savings rate for over 50 years. Which they have blown through in under 20. By comparison we nearly have a negative savings rate.

This is not a liquidity problem. Ben and other central bankers put in 630 billion of credit at the banks just days ago. It did nothing! You can not throw MONEY at this.

The issue is confidence and trust. Books are too cooked, too many lies, too many regulators looked away. No one wants to invest in this ponzi scheme anymore. Too much wealth has disappeared. Transparency and sanity must be returned, anything else is just chaotic speculation and will fail.

When out of the top 5 investment banks of last year, only 2 are left. Its no wonder why no one wants to lend anymore.

This ignores the fact the US government doesn't have trillions of dollars to give to bankers in the first place. We're already a massive debtor nation. Our liabilities are beginning to exceed our income. Either print or borrow more, both of which aren't appealing.

I understand Wall St is in a panic, firms are nearing crumbling point, thousands if not hundreds of thousands of jobs are at risk. With the broader economy under the gun as it is. But you can not borrow out this. It will only transfer the hardship down the road to someone else.

[Kataz]

I hope the bailout crashes and burns again. We don't need to be feeding the big business when they fuck up; and then if the economy crashes, maybe people will finally stop being so ignorant and realize the economy crashed because they excepted the roll of tools for corporations.

[Kataz]

But you can not borrow out this. It will only transfer the hardship down the road to someone else.

that's what people want... duh! :(

[Lacker]

6. The MBS are worth very little now, however, when the housing market and economy improves they will have much more value.

Are you insane? The whole reason this problem is here in the first place is because incomes stagnated while housing skyrocketed. "Affordable housing" became a joke as banks lent out crooked loans to people couldn't possibly pay to buy overpriced houses. Until incomes rise 15-30%(Depending where you live) housing prices will not improve to their bubble levels when the paper was written.

That will be years if not a decade or more.

I will not pickup the tab for that mess, and neither will my kids thank you.

[Zokten]

Crunk just makes me giggle.

[Vanno]

Are you insane? The whole reason this problem is here in the first place is because incomes stagnated while housing skyrocketed. "Affordable housing" became a joke as banks lent out crooked loans to people couldn't possibly pay to buy overpriced houses. Until incomes rise 15-30%(Depending where you live) housing prices will not improve to their bubble levels when the paper was written.

That will be years if not a decade or more.

I will not pickup the tab for that mess, and neither will my kids thank you.

Exactly; this is a problem that originates at the consumer level. It is an income failure/value of dollar issue, not a liquidity one. A sales tactic (sub-prime) was used to spur business, which completely ignored consumer's ability to repay loans, turns out people can't afford them. The business model fails. Unless this bill somehow boosted after tax incomes (for example suspended property tax, which would reward conservative borrowers), it would be bound to fail.

[Lysandor]

Wow, you really fucking hate Mexicans don’t you?

So Mexico is 34 countries?

[Capricious]

You guys do realize that the house and the senate are two different bodies, right?

The senate is trying to put pressure on the house to pass the bill.

The Senate passed the package on a 74-25 vote. Whereas, the house initially rejected the bailout 228-205.

IIRC, if we follow the constitution, this first step is the houses' job, so fuck the senate.