Bush wants to steal 700 billion USD from Taxpayers.

[Tharkon Fargor]

According to Swedish News Bush wishes to take 700 000 000 000 from US taxpayers to finance the bank that is in critical situation. He belives anything ellse will destroy America.
I say that this proposal will destroy the core of what America is.
Together with laws such as the Patriot Act it will do the job the terrorists tried to do.


This instead of simply repaying the savers who lost their money and letting the wallstreet giant die.


America is truly moving towards corporatism.
This is in my opinion worse than fascism, socialism, conservatism and libertarianism. It is the most evil doctrine i can imagine after nazism.

This in itself is not somethong "horrible" (it is bad, but not horrible).
What can happen if this goes through though is imaginable.



PS: Can someone find me some links about what is happening in Germany and the UK about similiar things, please?

[NapalmEnema]

Did you see how massively confused he was reading the teleprompter last night?

Looked like a monkey trying to figure out the controls to a 747jet.

I'm just surprised they pried him away from his fingerpainting session to make an appearance.

What a disgrace that tool is... f-ing tragic he's at the help of this ship. :ohno:

[Falokis]

Thanks for the scoop! I missed it in the other 6 million threads on this subject.

[WhySoSerious]

I really, really want to watch the U.S squirm as the NATO breaks up and russia starts attacking.


plz dissolve nato. then the U.S and russia can duke it out. the whole world wants to watch this rematch

[Tharkon Fargor]

Thanks for the scoop! I missed it in the other 6 million threads on this subject.

The thing is he now demands it. Maybe I made this a bit unclear in my thread.
It is demanding to steal 700 000 000 000 compared to before when it was simply a suggestion.

He thinks that if this is not done, America will collapse.

It is nothing more than a theft of 700 000 000 000 dollars.
I wonder where all the money the bank lost went to. :ninja:

[Vertigo Vain]

Unless you want to build a US from scrap that might be nessessary evil. If you dont mind great depression and building economy from 0 - you can oppose the balout.

Its a chain reaction. Yes, banks are guilty at what happening - however when banks, and all big money holders fail, all dependable on them (as example industry and bussnisses who loaned from them) ruin aswell, and all who depends on them, and in the end while the ballout would mean a higher debt for US taxplayers to pay (they pay the same, it means less money for Goverment to spend on the needs of taxplayers though); the ruin of financial system would mean taxpayers loosing money DIRECTLY because of loosing property, jobs, inflation, worse conjucture e.t.c. And it hits much harder then just paying taxes knowing your goverment have a debt to pay.

[holychicken]

I really, really want to watch the U.S squirm as the NATO breaks up and russia starts attacking.


plz dissolve nato. then the U.S and russia can duke it out. the whole world wants to watch this rematch
You sure you are in the right thread?

[Mazer]

This instead of simply repaying the savers who lost their money and letting the wallstreet giant die.


America is truly moving towards corporatism.
This is in my opinion worse than fascism, socialism, conservatism and libertarianism. It is the most evil doctrine i can imagine after nazism.

This in itself is not somethong "horrible" (it is bad, but not horrible).
What can happen if this goes through though is imaginable.



PS: Can someone find me some links about what is happening in Germany and the UK about similiar things, please?

This is a much more complex situation. But either way, the average citizen is the one paying. Either they lose all their investments/insurance or they have to pay to keep the big companies afloat.

And, I'm pretty sure what's happening here is the exact opposite of 'corporatism'. The whole situation is leading to a socialist nation where the government plays a huge role in organizations.

EDIT: True corporatism would be letting the organizations fend for themselves.

[Jezrith]

America is truly moving towards corporatism.
This is in my opinion worse than fascism, socialism, conservatism and libertarianism. It is the most evil doctrine i can imagine after nazism.


Well there is at least one thing we can agree on...

[Tharkon Fargor]

Unless you want to build a US from scrap that might be nessessary evil. If you dont mind great depression and building economy from 0 - you can oppose the balout.

Its a chain reaction. Yes, banks are guilty at what happening - however when banks, and all big money holders fail, all dependable on them (as example industry and bussnisses who loaned from them) ruin aswell, and all who depends on them, and in the end while the ballout would mean a higher debt for US taxplayers to pay (they pay the same, it means less money for Goverment to spend on the needs of taxplayers though); the ruin of financial system would mean taxpayers loosing money DIRECTLY because of loosing property, jobs, inflation, worse conjucture e.t.c. And it hits much harder then just paying taxes knowing your goverment have a debt to pay.

I belive you can't just keep letting the bubble popp every 50 years. Something needs to be done ellse the next generation will suffer again.
Obviously this system isn't working.

I suggest either social liberalism, liberterainism or democratic socialism as a cure. You can't keep letting the banks own everything, everywhere. And you can't keep private companys be controlled/supported by the government.*
You should either have public companies doing public work or private companies. Nothing ellse.


*Except in special cases where a government signs a contract with a private company to do a specific job.

EDIT: True corporatism would be letting the organizations fend for themselves.

No. Corporatism is where Government and Corporations become more and more the same.

What you are talking about is libertarianism. Don't make up words. And even if you do, the core meaning is the same.

[Shyhalu]

You realize its is a LOAN.....right? One at pretty high interest too.

Let us sink into a depression, and u can facepalm for your inability to even research the issue or understand it AS you cling onto your shotgun every night because theres now 100x more people willing to rob and kill.

OR

Take a chunk of taxpayer money to loan to these falling giants in hopes they can recover a bit, which normally means they are downsizing, which lets smaller companies get a piece of the pie.

[Mazer]

which lets smaller companies get a piece of the pie.

Or just outright collapse if the government decides not to bail them out..

[Tharkon Fargor]

You realize its is a LOAN.....right? One at pretty high interest too.

Let us sink into a depression, and u can facepalm for your inability to even research the issue or understand it AS you cling onto your shotgun every night because theres now 100x more people willing to rob and kill.

OR

Take a chunk of taxpayer money to loan to these falling giants in hopes they can recover a bit, which normally means they are downsizing, which lets smaller companies get a piece of the pie.

lol.
That loan is in turn a loan from 8 banks that control the FED. System fail.
Also the next time a big fat bank fails, you will loan even more to save it.

[Dwhap]

Make no mistake folks - this bail out bullshit is nothing more then a welfare plan for the rich, which includes just about everyone in the congress and the US senate. They are using our money to protect their investments. The economic impact of letting these institutions fail is not near as dangerous for the Average American as they are trying to sell us on... It's become clear to me that the federal government is corrupt beyond all repair.

This whole thing is starting to fuel support for some of the independence movements in states like Texas, Alaska, and CA.. I think this whole mess may actually tear the US apart before its over...

[Shyhalu]

I belive you can't just keep letting the bubble popp every 50 years. Something needs to be done ellse the next generation will suffer again.
Obviously this system isn't working.


The bubble popped because of very bad loans, retards gave out loans that couldn't possibly be paid back, and wound up not being paid back...which means a lot of lost money, lost jobs, etc and its just a downward snowball effect.

Had nothing to do with capitalism.

Maybe you should readup on the issue because its apparent you have no fucking clue to wtf is going on.


I suggest either social liberalism, liberterainism or democratic socialism as a cure. You can't keep letting the banks own everything, everywhere. And you can't keep private companys be controlled/supported by the government.*
You should either have public companies doing public work or private companies. Nothing ellse.


Banks don't own everything......everywhere.....they give out loans.....

You have no right to suggest squat as the cure because you don't even understand the cause of the problem.


No. Corporatism is where Government and Corporations become more and more the same.

What you are talking about is libertarianism. Don't make up words. And even if you do, the core meaning is the same.

What corporation is taking over a government role?? Its more like the other way around, In a year or so when they don't sell the corporations back and etc, then you can complain.

[Shyhalu]

lol.
That loan is in turn a loan from 8 banks that control the FED. System fail.
Also the next time a big fat bank fails, you will loan even more to save it.

O OK, so its not tax payer money then? Wheres the problem?

[Lethn]

man you guys in the U.S really need to take a look at this more carefully, unless the plan by the government is to give everyone all gift baskets and lots of candy after all this is over, the likely thing is that once the big corporations get bailed out they won't want to give any of the money back and because the government pretty much whore themselves out to them then they won't bother trying to get the money back from them and even if they do, do you really think taxpayers are going to even get their many back in any form?

I'm no expert on the economy but frankly it looks to me that the corporations in America are waging a financial war with the rest of the world and because other foreign companies aren't wanting anything to do with their debts they're trying to pull it out of the tax payer through the government, call me crazy but the recent actions with the chinese bank just hinted to me a tad that it might well be the case.

I sincerely hope these companies fucking rot and their plan backfires on them because I agree, a corporate controlled government is worse than nazism because as Ron Paul has said, they have no ideology and all they're interested in is making money.

And the majority of that money isn't necessarily taxpayer money but it's certainly money from the poorer people who deposit to the bank in order to save, how else do you think the banks make their profit or pay off these huge loans?

[Shyhalu]

Make no mistake folks - this bail out bullshit is nothing more then a welfare plan for the rich, which includes just about everyone in the congress and the US senate. They are using our money to protect their investments. The economic impact of letting these institutions fail is not near as dangerous for the Average American as they are trying to sell us on... It's become clear to me that the federal government is corrupt beyond all repair.

This whole thing is starting to fuel support for some of the independence movements in states like Texas, Alaska, and CA.. I think this whole mess may actually tear the US apart before its over...

Because that huuuuuuge line of employees going home carrying boxes of thier things totally won't hurt our economy....

Clearly, the people who work for these companies will still have jobs working for those companies......even although they are out of business, right??? right??

[Tharkon Fargor]

Make no mistake folks - this bail out bullshit is nothing more then a welfare plan for the rich, which includes just about everyone in the congress and the US senate. They are using our money to protect their investments. The economic impact of letting these institutions fail is not near as dangerous for the Average American as they are trying to sell us on... It's become clear to me that the federal government is corrupt beyond all repair.

This whole thing is starting to fuel support for some of the independence movements in states like Texas, Alaska, and CA.. I think this whole mess may actually tear the US apart before its over...

Very well written.
Also if the bank would fail it would serve as as warning to these greedy bastards while at the same time showing to honest folks that they should save in a stabile bank or buy stocks themselves instead of going in these high risk banks (which I suppose this one was).

What you are doing by giving or "loaning" 700 billion dollars is basicly showing not only ordinary people but bankers that it is ok to loan money you can't pay back.


O OK, so its not tax payer money then? Wheres the problem?

Fool.




___


PS: Question: Why not just distribute these 700 000 000 000 dollars to all those people who saved in the bank and that way help the folks who got tricked instead of helping the bank? Both companies and individuals.

[Shyhalu]

man you guys in the U.S really need to take a look at this more carefully, unless the plan by the government is to give everyone all gift baskets and lots of candy after all this is over, the likely thing is that once the big corporations get bailed out they won't want to give any of the money back and because the government pretty much whore themselves out to them then they won't bother trying to get the money back from them and even if they do, do you really think taxpayers are going to even get their many back in any form?


Right......because no one collects on their loans...even when they grab a controlling interest in the company......nono, our government will just.....forget about it right? Just sweep 700 billion under the rug like it never happpened.


I'm no expert on the economy but frankly it looks to me that the corporations in America are waging a financial war with the rest of the world and because other foreign companies aren't wanting anything to do with their debts they're trying to pull it out of the tax payer through the government, call me crazy but the recent actions with the chinese bank just hinted to me a tad that it might well be the case.



I bolded the reason you need to stfu.


I sincerely hope these companies fucking rot and their plan backfires on them because I agree, a corporate controlled government is worse than nazism because as Ron Paul has said, they have no ideology and all they're interested in is making money.

When these companies fucking rot, so will thousands of American employees, as well as other countries might too as a lot of these companies are global.

[DipMode]

Stop. This isn't what "bush" is doing.

Its everyones fault except for me and the other retards who actually PAY their mortgage.

Democrats run the house and senate it will be their plan that gets signed by Bush.

You think one man is responsible for all the evil in the world. WAKE THE FUKK UP!!

[Lethn]

Honestly? They've done this type of thing before and learning from my previous mistakes I do want you to elaborate on why you think I need to 'stfu'? Instead of being lazy and just writing one liner comments.

[Tharkon Fargor]

Stop. This isn't what "bush" is doing.

Its everyones fault except for me and the other retards who actually PAY their mortgage.

Democrats run the house and senate it will be their plan that gets signed by Bush.

You think one man is responsible for all the evil in the world. WAKE THE FUKK UP!!

If Bush as the countries leader would boldly go up and say.
"We will not submit to the plans of the banking elite. If we say to the poor "You should take your own responsibillity" so must we for these bankers.
A government aid plan for the already rich? That scammed the people of America? Not under my watch"...then belive me, neither republicans nor democrats would dare to vote for any plan except giving the 700 billion to those who lost their savings.

[Fro]

Stop. This isn't what "bush" is doing.

True but its just so dam easy to make the dipshit an escape goat.

[Shyhalu]

Very well written.
Also if the bank would fail it would serve as as warning to these greedy bastards while at the same time showing to honest folks that they should save in a stabile bank or buy stocks themselves instead of going in these high risk banks (which I suppose this one was).

What you are doing by giving or "loaning" 700 billion dollars is basicly showing not only ordinary people but bankers that it is ok to loan money you can't pay back.

I don't think you understand that these "Stable" banks are going to go to hell too.

Stocks are risky as well, and please explain how these banks were high risk....no really, please do, because it strikes me odd that giant ass banks that are nationwide or even global are high risk. I mean FFS they are banks, not mutual funds.


Fool.


In case you haven't noticed....the FED isnt a part of our government, if the FED is giving out money, its not tax payer money. Our government pays off the loans it takes out, with taxpayer money......

BUT saying its still taxpayer money after it goes to the FED is like saying its still your money after you order pizza or buy groceries.

Did you not understand the part where they are charging interest?


PS: Question: Why not just distribute these 700 000 000 000 dollars to all those people who saved in the bank and that way help the folks who got tricked instead of helping the bank? Both companies and individuals.

Because that would give those people....maybe 10,000 dollars each? Instead of letting them keep thier job.....

Do you know how many people will become unemployed if all these companies fell over? What about the other companies they give loans out too? Those could easily die out too if they can't get loans anymore.

[paade]

i would like for some opinions of how are you going to solve the massive budget deficit you got going on? All 9 trillions of it and rising over 2 billion a day atm, now include this bailout to that (1-2 trillion) and i heard you also have some massive problems with medicare or some such shit.

All this while your economy is falling, your GDP will plummet (since its mostly based on domestic consumption, which was based on taking more debt) and oil price is climbing again.

Definetly not an expert here, so maybe some of what i wrote is bs.

Discuss.

[Mulambo]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7636542.stm

A leading US senator says both parties in Congress have reached agreement on the outline of a $700bn (£380bn) bail-out plan to revive the finance sector.

Democrat Senator Christopher Dodd said they had reached "fundamental agreement" on the principles of a package though he did not give details.

He said Congress could act in the next few days to pass a bill on the subject.

The plan is aimed at helping finance firms offload their bad debt, which has triggered a global credit crisis.

"We now expect that we will have a plan that can pass the House, pass the Senate and be signed by the president," Senator Robert Bennett of Utah said after meetings with lawmakers on Thursday.

Details of the package were not immediately available but it is expected to include limits on executives' pay as well as oversight requirements.

The news comes as President George W Bush is set to meet both presidential candidates, John McCain and Barack Obama, to discuss the bail-out and how to revive the economy.

The benchmark Dow Jones index has risen sharply on senator Dodd's comments, adding 3%, to 11,128.7.

Concerns

The bail-out, put forward last week, has been under scrutiny with politicians on both sides nervous about the deal being rushed through too quickly.

Of particular concern has been the issue of pay for the bosses of the firms in question, as well as concerns over the cost of the plan to the US taxpayer.

But both US Federal Reserve head Ben Bernanke and US President George W Bush have warned that without a deal, it would cause a significant set-back to the economy as a whole.

[Shyhalu]

Honestly? They've done this type of thing before and learning from my previous mistakes I do want you to elaborate on why you think I need to 'stfu'? Instead of being lazy and just writing one liner comments.

I bolded it, or are you illiterate with no reading comprehension?

Edit:
This has nothing to fucking do with foreigners, but everything to do with AMERICAN BANKS giving AMERICANS loans they could never afford and shit just hit the fan big time....Fat Albert like big time.

[Lethn]

Why are you avoiding the question? I said I'm no expert on the subject so feel free to elaborate on your opinion for poor illiterate me :rolleyes:

Though if I was illiterate I wouldn't even be able to type a sentence correctly no?

[Tharkon Fargor]

Lol.
Not many would loose their jobs.
People would loose their illusion of savings.
But jobs? no.

Actually if you as a company BORROWED money from the bank then this is great for you.
Then you don't have a bank to pay back your loans.
Same goes for private individuals.

Either way, it doesn't really hurt small and medium sized companies.

[Shyhalu]

i would like for some opinions of how are you going to solve the massive budget deficit you got going on? All 9 trillions of it and rising over 2 billion a day atm, now include this bailout to that (1-2 trillion) and i heard you also have some massive problems with medicare or some such shit.

All this while your economy is falling, your GDP will plummet (since its mostly based on domestic consumption, which was based on taking more debt) and oil price is climbing again.

Definetly not an expert here, so maybe some of what i wrote is bs.

Discuss.

That loan being given out is NOT DEBT, jesus. Its going to be bringing in money and be getting paid back.......YOU DONT GIVE OUT LOANS AND THEN PAY THE PERSON YOU GAVE IT TO INTEREST, ITS THE OTHER WAY AROUND.

I give up, you people are too stupid to bother with.

[Shyhalu]

Lol.
Not many would loose their jobs.
People would loose their illusion of savings.
But jobs? no.

Actually if you as a company BORROWED money from the bank then this is great for you.
Then you don't have a bank to pay back your loans.
Same goes for private individuals.

Either way, it doesn't really hurt small and medium sized companies.

Yet you could never get a loan again.......credit market stagnates....businesses don't carry millions of dollars around with them

Other banks can't get loans either. I'm sure you don't know, but mortgages are included in this. Good luck buying a house when you need to save up 80% of the cost because no bank has the money, nor gawl to loan you that much.

You are thinking short term, start thinking long term. Not to mention the tons of people without jobs.

Sure, theres no bank to pay back......but how about those people working for the bank? How about all the private companies that do outsourced work for the banks?

What about all the lawyers that are required for the banks operations? ITs not just fire a bunch of people, its also kill off a ton of businesses with seperate companies...which menas less income for them.

What good is not having to pay back your loan when you just lost a long time customer and now have X to Y employees who either need to be fired or are still being paid even though you just lost a lot of income?

How about all of the consultants that no longer have jobs and the consulting firm can no longer find work for them?

Result? Redline or lay people off.

Its just one big snowball, too big for our crappy economy to handle, a nail in the coffin.

[Justinian]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7636542.stm

News: Nobody is surprised.

Yeah, I can't say I'm surprised."

[Yobaj]

If they just pass this plan without giving any regards to what the taxpayers get in return, then the American people just got buttraped. Seriously, I can understand that you bought up Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, you now own these companies. But if you just pour money over Wall Street saying: "Hey, you fucked everything up being greedy fuckers, but we will give you huge-ass amounts of money so you can continue handling money like idiots" without you getting anything in return, then it's just stupid waste of taxpayers money.

[Tharkon Fargor]

Yet you could never get a loan again.......credit market stagnates....businesses don't carry millions of dollars around with them

Other banks can't get loans either.

You are thinking short term, start thinking long term. Not to mention the tons of people without jobs.

Dude. I already gave you the longterm and so have others.
Budget deficit increases, banks think that they can loan money to anyone again without collapsing, the US currency falls and things like this.

That is the longterm effect if you give government aid this company.
Not to mention the possible move towards corporatism.

[Battle]

I'm not paying my taxes anymore.

[deja TBH]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWaLxFIVX1s)

[Killuminati]

I'm not paying my taxes anymore.

Say hello for me to the Federal agents who are gonna bust down your door.

[Dwhap]

Honestly? They've done this type of thing before and learning from my previous mistakes I do want you to elaborate on why you think I need to 'stfu'? Instead of being lazy and just writing one liner comments.

Lol what do you mean they've done this thing before? Using taxpayer money to bail out private investors has never happened before on this scale... The US government is run by big business and the rich. They are what drives US domestic and foriegn policy, and they are using YOUR money to protect themselves and the top 1% of the richest people in this country. And where the hell do you think the government will get 700 billion dollars from? It wasn't there last week.. Either they simply print the money (which will kill the value of the US dollar and our credit rating around the world), or we borrow it from foreign governments. There are figures that now put the interest we are paying to foreign governments as almost half our GNP... The party is over folks.. This is the begining of the end of the USA as we know it.

[Tharkon Fargor]

Dwhap he's writting to the moron I'm writting to aswell.

[Shyhalu]

Dude. I already gave you the longterm and so have others.
Budget deficit increases, banks think that they can loan money to anyone again without collapsing, the US currency falls and things like this.

That is the longterm effect if you give government aid this company.
Not to mention the possible move towards corporatism.

Yes, brilliant. Its like you just gave me a report a 3rd grader would make on his report about the current crisis.


Long term effect.......
Budget deficit increases......but we now have a new source of income as the loan gets paid back, with high interest.
The banks continue to loan money out and do business, but hopefully this time the subloans and crap will be gone

I don't know the effect on the dollar......but hey, wtf is the problem? Big business gets saved, pays back the government eventually, tons of jobs are not lost, a chunk of faith is restored.

I'll take a little corporatism because its the government taking over a corporation and not the other way around. And its not just for the hell of it, its to attempt to stop the economy from collapsing.

Thats good enough for me, despite some corruption wil come out of it. But its better than doing nothing.

One idealogy for government never works, you need to take the best aspects of all of them, so your corporatism argument is moot as far as I'm concerned.

[Capricious]

Say hello for me to the Federal agents who are gonna bust down your door.

What if everyone doesnt pay their taxes? They dont have enough agents.


I just blew your mind.

[lafayette]

I felt a great distubance in the force, as if a million central bankers cried out LULZ!

Begun the Dollar war has.

[Shyhalu]

Dwhap he's writting to the moron I'm writting to aswell.

Oh yes, I'm a moron because I understand what theh ell is going on other than the media hype and bias.

I'm a totaly moron for viewing this w/o an intense hatred for our government. Sorry for being unbiased, maybe I should blatently show my bias by yelling "CORPORATISM!!!!" and then cleverly slipping in new ideas for government as if capitalism doesn't work.

You don't know anything, nor give a damn about the crisis, you just want ot take cheap shots at capitalism.

You are a fucking idiot, I'm done here.

[Ragnika]

This is awesome!

/kickair

[Xzi]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWaLxFIVX1s)
I replayed that like twenty times rofl.

[Killuminati]

What if everyone doesnt pay their taxes? They dont have enough agents.


I just blew your mind.

Nah, I'm not as delusional as you are.

[Battle]

Say hello for me to the Federal agents who are gonna bust down your door.

they dont send federal agents for misdemeanors

[Tharkon Fargor]

<Sigh> your country is Market Conservative turning corporative (?) not "capitalist OMG!!!!" You don't even know what capitalism is and corporatism is definetly part of capitalism. As is fascism and all the way up to social democracy.


Yes. Get the fuck out of Forumfall idiot.


edit: Actually capitalism is definetly part of corporatism.

[lafayette]

Bush wants to steal 700 billion USD from Taxpayers.

Its a good thing all those democrat AND republican congressmen and senators voted agaisnt it.... oh wait.

[DipMode]

Edit:
This has nothing to fucking do with foreigners, but everything to do with AMERICAN BANKS giving AMERICANS loans they could never afford and shit just hit the fan big time....Fat Albert like big time.

Americans that accept the loans are just as responsible for this mess.
Don't blame the banks for the stupidity of Americans that knew full well they could not afford to pay the loans back.

[Tharkon Fargor]

Americans that accept the loans are just as responsible for this mess.
Don't blame the banks for the stupidity of Americans that knew full well they could not afford to pay the loans back.

lol...The banks are supposed to check that. But some banks ignore if the loantaker doesn't have a job or is disabled because they hope their friends/mother/father will pay their loans.

So this bank failed in their "calculations" and should thus fail and fall into bankcrupcy.

[paade]

Long term effect.......
Budget deficit increases......but we now have a new source of income as the loan gets paid back, with high interest.


with high interest? You do realise that dollar will lose value over this, right? It will do it anyway, but this will just speed it up.
So there goes your 'high interest', amirite?

[Dwhap]

Americans that accept the loans are just as responsible for this mess.
Don't blame the banks for the stupidity of Americans that knew full well they could not afford to pay the loans back.

/Agreed

Which is why we need to let these institutions fail and let the market correct itself. We are going into a recession folks, and the bail out is not going to stop that. Its just going to make it easier on the rich. Recessions are a normal cycle in any economy and we are way over due for one.

[Capricious]

Hilarity ensues.

[DipMode]

lol...The banks are supposed to check that. But some banks ignore if the loantaker doesn't have a job or is disabled because they hope their friends/mother/father will pay their loans.

So this bank failed in their "calculations" and should thus fail and fall into bankcrupcy.

No. Listen to yourself. "Its everyones fault but mine" comment.

The government allowed liar loans, sub prime and no equity loans.

Blame the lender, lawyer, broker and debter.

This is a complete failer of America as a whole.

[Tharkon Fargor]

O_O It is everyones fault but mine. I live in Sweden and we have rules there for loans and institutions to help people and force people to pay back their loans.

We also tend to minimize young peoples exposure to credits as much as we can.

And ofcourse it is the individual loaners fault that they loan and loan and loan. Usually they fuck up their own lives. This time the bank went to far and they get lucky. So the bank fucks itself up and the loaners win.

Now you should reform your system to make it impossible or very hard for people with little means to take loans. But at the same time you should have free education for example to make it possible for students to go to school ;)

<Sneak insert COMMIES PROPAGANDA>

[Matriel]

What's the fucking difference to most of us anyway?

No matter whether this happens or not, I'm still going to get bent over and buttfucked with taxes that I don't see any positive return on at all. Fuck if I care how they spend it.

[Heartnet~]

Yet you could never get a loan again.......credit market stagnates....businesses don't carry millions of dollars around with them

Other banks can't get loans either. I'm sure you don't know, but mortgages are included in this. Good luck buying a house when you need to save up 80% of the cost because no bank has the money, nor gawl to loan you that much.

You are thinking short term, start thinking long term. Not to mention the tons of people without jobs.

Sure, theres no bank to pay back......but how about those people working for the bank? How about all the private companies that do outsourced work for the banks?

What about all the lawyers that are required for the banks operations? ITs not just fire a bunch of people, its also kill off a ton of businesses with seperate companies...which menas less income for them.

What good is not having to pay back your loan when you just lost a long time customer and now have X to Y employees who either need to be fired or are still being paid even though you just lost a lot of income?

How about all of the consultants that no longer have jobs and the consulting firm can no longer find work for them?

Result? Redline or lay people off.

Its just one big snowball, too big for our crappy economy to handle, a nail in the coffin.This needs to explained on all national news so our fucking retarded populace can get a glimpse into just how necessary this 700B will be. If Wall Street collapses, most of us in our 20s and 30s will probably be living on the streets.

[Tharkon Fargor]

What's the fucking difference to most of us anyway?

No matter whether this happens or not, I'm still going to get bent over and buttfucked with taxes that I don't see any positive return on at all. Fuck if I care how they spend it.

They could pay of the deficit to make your future taxes be smaller. :eek:

[Matriel]

This needs to explained on all national news so our fucking retarded populace can get a glimpse into just how necessary this 700B will be. If Wall Street collapses, most of us in our 20s and 30s will probably be living on the streets.

I know. Living within our means is so scary!

They could pay of the deficit to make your future taxes be smaller. :eek:

Yeah fucking right. Income taxation doesn't even make up half of federal revenue. Which still leaves an enormous amount of funds in which to pay off the deficit if the fuckheads in Washington would stop spending like total tards.

I'm sticking with apathy. I'm not going to see a benefit on my taxdollars, so the fuck if I care how they spend it. Might as well be bombing children in some third world shithold for the lolz.

[Dwhap]

What's the fucking difference to most of us anyway?

No matter whether this happens or not, I'm still going to get bent over and buttfucked with taxes that I don't see any positive return on at all. Fuck if I care how they spend it.

You're right. Not matter what happens 95% of us are getting screwed. The difference is that the top 5% are ensuring their portfolios and net-worth are saved at the expense of the long term health of the economy - and their using your money to do it.

(This whole thing make me want to buy more guns..)

[Killuminati]

Now you should reform your system to make it impossible or very hard for people with little means to take loans. But at the same time you should have free education for example to make it possible for students to go to school ;)

<Sneak insert COMMIES PROPAGANDA>

We pretty much do that unless you want us to dumb down our education even fucking more and have all universities run by the government. Seriously, we give out loans to any student right now who qualifies(academically and finacially). You have to be trying your hardest to become a fucking schmuck poor fuck to not get into school.

[[LoD] EE]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7636542.stm

Mr Long term follower, thank you for adding your 2 cents to the many other threads on the SAME EFFING TOPIC.

Just on the first page alone.

Thread 1 (http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=70838)
Thread 2 (http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=70666)

[Largion]

I want the dollar to keep falling so I can buy a new computer cheap when DF is released. ;)

[Eskareon]

Listen everyone, I'm a college kid in a small country and I have the answer to your multi-trillion dollar, global-leading powerhouse economy.

[Capricious]

EE;1736775']Mr Long term follower, thank you for adding your 2 cents to the many other threads on the SAME EFFING TOPIC.

Just on the first page alone.

Thread 1 (http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=70838)
Thread 2 (http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=70666)

Long term retard. Right? *nudge nudge*

[Tharkon Fargor]

We pretty much do that unless you want us to dumb down our education even fucking more and have all universities run by the government. Seriously, we give out loans to any student right now who qualifies(academically and finacially). You have to be trying your hardest to become a fucking schmuck poor fuck to not get into school.

Did you read what I wrote?
Make education *free* so that students *don't* need to loan money to pay their student fees.

They can instead get a low paying job at the sides of the education to pay living fees and if they come from exceptionaly poor families maybe even get some help.

[Dwhap]

This needs to explained on all national news so our fucking retarded populace can get a glimpse into just how necessary this 700B will be. If Wall Street collapses, most of us in our 20s and 30s will probably be living on the streets.

Yea that's what the Bush administration and half the congress are telling us right? (which is run by the same companies a people the bailout will benefit..) And we know they would NEVER try to decieve us right??

(Once upon a time there was this dangerous little country called Iraq that was hell bent on destroying the US. It had HUGE stockpiles of chemical weapons, and was on the virge of getting a nuclear weapons...)

[Vanno]

I have to question why suddenly everyone buys into the mass hysteria financial Armageddon scenario?

[Slypieguy]

According to Swedish News Bush wishes to take 700 000 000 000 from US taxpayers to finance the bank that is in critical situation. He belives anything ellse will destroy America.
I say that this proposal will destroy the core of what America is.
Together with laws such as the Patriot Act it will do the job the terrorists tried to do.


This instead of simply repaying the savers who lost their money and letting the wallstreet giant die.


America is truly moving towards corporatism.
This is in my opinion worse than fascism, socialism, conservatism and libertarianism. It is the most evil doctrine i can imagine after nazism.

This in itself is not somethong "horrible" (it is bad, but not horrible).
What can happen if this goes through though is imaginable.



PS: Can someone find me some links about what is happening in Germany and the UK about similiar things, please?


Newsflash, this measure is totally bipartisan, and actually has more support from democrats than republicans. Nice try on the superfluous Bush bashing though

[Dwhap]

I have to question why suddenly everyone buys into the mass hysteria financial Armageddon scenario?

Because that's what our government is selling us.

[Capricious]

Thats ~$3,200 per person (18+). (700bil/220mil)

[Tharkon Fargor]

Newsflash, this measure is totally bipartisan, and actually has more support from democrats than republicans. Nice try on the superfluous Bush bashing though

The point was that Bush is demand of congress and the senate to do this.
Instead of just suggesting it.

I know both sides are fuck ups.

But instead the president could for once take a strong position in a fierce stance against the banking elite by demanding from congress and the senate not to scare the people and instead let the market have its course.
He could easily make a speech condemning this or he could stay neutral and let the peoples representatives deal with it. Instead he is throwing fuel into the fire and scaring people even more.

Thats ~$3,200 per person (18+). (700bil/220mil)
Doubt everyone have savings in the same bank?

[Skree]

If Bush as the countries leader would boldly go up and say.
"We will not submit to the plans of the banking elite. He can't, if he did his corporate owners would have him shot.

Skree

[Tharkon Fargor]

He can't, if he did his corporate owners would have him shot.

Skree

He should sacrifise *HIS* life for his country then as real patriots do.
Not send others sons and daughters into a war to sacrifise theirs. :idea:


Holy shit. I just think I made a epic quote here O_O!

[Vanno]

I want the dollar to keep falling so I can buy a new computer cheap when DF is released. ;)

That doesn't even remotely make sense. If the dollar value goes down, and most computer components are from China, your computer will cost more, not less.

This needs to explained on all national news so our fucking retarded populace can get a glimpse into just how necessary this 700B will be. If Wall Street collapses, most of us in our 20s and 30s will probably be living on the streets.

It is all a farce. There are still massive credit unions and banks that would likely sort out bad assets and buy up remaining good ones. Likewise, maybe a few people see the need to facilitate purchases, pool money, and start some people's banks. This is little more than saving a couple banks that have lobbyists.

[Slypieguy]

The point was that Bush is demand of congress and the senate to do this.
Instead of just suggesting it.

I know both sides are fuck ups.

But instead the president could for once take a strong position in a fierce stance against the banking elite by demanding from congress and the senate not to scare the people and instead let the market have its course.
He could easily make a speech condemning this or he could stay neutral and let the peoples representatives deal with it. Instead he is throwing fuel into the fire and scaring people even more.


Doubt everyone have savings in the same bank?

I can't blame you for not knowing, as you don't live here, but the sentiment on this issue has been both parties scrambling to come up with a bill that does this; it was at the request or Bernake and Paulson. Bush has nothing to do with it, except signing it. Both side of congress are all about this and there is a general consensus among politicians and experts that it is "necessary." You can't really play the blame game here, especially not on Bush

[Tharkon Fargor]

That doesn't even remotely make sense. If the dollar value goes down, and most computer components are from China, your computer will cost more, not less.

Maybe he's not American ;) We Europeans actually love your economy falling into pieces. I just like discussing how to help it. But I'd prefer it to fall into pieces.

I can't blame you for not knowing, as you don't live here, but the sentiment on this issue has been both parties scrambling to come up with a bill that does this; it was at the request or Bernake and Paulson. Bush has nothing to do with it, except signing it. Both side of congress are all about this and there is a general consensus among politicians and experts that it is "necessary." You can't really play the blame game here, especially not on Bush

Well it seemed Bush pushed it a bit more than everyone ellse.
But if not: Your government is stealing 700 billion from you and giving it to just a very very few.

Aka: Corporatism. Cause it's government now, not single presidential individual.

[Mulambo]

wrong thread.

[hardboiled]

According to Swedish News Bush wishes to take 700 000 000 000 from US taxpayers to finance the bank that is in critical situation. He belives anything ellse will destroy America.
I say that this proposal will destroy the core of what America is.
Together with laws such as the Patriot Act it will do the job the terrorists tried to do.


This instead of simply repaying the savers who lost their money and letting the wallstreet giant die.


America is truly moving towards corporatism.
This is in my opinion worse than fascism, socialism, conservatism and libertarianism. It is the most evil doctrine i can imagine after nazism.

This in itself is not somethong "horrible" (it is bad, but not horrible).
What can happen if this goes through though is imaginable.



PS: Can someone find me some links about what is happening in Germany and the UK about similiar things, please?

You do know that this is not some exceptional thing that is never heard of before? Maybe in the US it is but here in Europe this is the usual way. This is how Finland addressed the 1990 recession.

[Skree]

I have to question why suddenly everyone buys into the mass hysteria financial Armageddon scenario?Because the government has learned durring times of great fear or hysteria they can do just about anything they want (Patriot Act and too many more to list) while we argue with each other.

It's like a good pick pocket, you distract the "mark" while you steal his money.

Only this time they can't seem to make the distraction stick. People are seeing thru the ruse and are pissed about having their money stolen.

I think this hysteria is about watching someone steal your money and feeling helpless to do anything about it.

Skree

[Vanno]

Because that's what our government is selling us.

It's a complete fabrication; our systems are quite adaptive in this day and age, and we could institute a new mechanism for exchange instantaneously if shit ever got as dire as the horror stories douche nozzles like Bernanke and Paulson are telling.

[Tharkon Fargor]

The news were that Bush went from supporting the idea to demanding it saying that America will not only fall into recession but that America will collapse if it's not done. Bah!

[Capricious]

Don't know why, but I feel like posting this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUZwL9GPcNw

[Vanno]

I think this hysteria is about watching someone steal your money and feeling helpless to do anything about it.

Skree

I was referring to the hysteria that all will be lost if a bailout isn't orchestrated. I can understand being pissed about said bailout.

[Largion]

That doesn't even remotely make sense. If the dollar value goes down, and most computer components are from China, your computer will cost more, not less.


Im not from the US so now that the dollar have fallen it cost alot less to order the parts from America. :p

[Slypieguy]

Well it seemed Bush pushed it a bit more than everyone ellse.
But if not: Your government is stealing 700 billion from you and giving it to just a very very few.

Aka: Corporatism. Cause it's government now, not single presidential individual.

Yea, it was pretty much a done deal before Bush even opened his mouth. And they can make the argument that isn't a very very few who are getting the benefit. If we prevent the collapse into great depression #2 this benefits everyone. (I'm not saying I necessarily agree, just saying what they would tell you)

[Vanno]

Im not from the US so now that the dollar have fallen it cost alot less to order the parts from America. :p

Gotcha.

[Largion]

Canada should build a wall for when the Dollar collapse and the US become like South America.
And soon Europe will start outsourcing to the US for the cheap labor. :lmao:

[Dwhap]

Canada should build a wall for when the Dollar collapse and the US become like South America.
And soon Europe will start outsourcing to the US for the cheap labor. :lmao:

You wouldn't make it in America.

[Largion]

You wouldn't make it in America.

Why would I even want to be there?

[Jester814]

You know there are more people in the American Gov't than just Bush, right?

[Tharkon Fargor]

You know there are more people in the American Gov't than just Bush, right?

Again I repeat. The news was that Bush went from supporting the idea to demanding it and saying America will not go into recession but into a collapse.
If the 700B isn't allowed.

IT is a huge difference between the two. Learn to read.

Though sure, perhaps many others said the same.

[MattMystrieo]

Thanks for the scoop! I missed it in the other 700 billion threads on this subject.

And soon the American people will miss there 700 billion dollers.

(Disclamer- This post has been edited for comic purposes)

[Largion]

nm

[stalwart]

america took it a step further with socialized banks. phenomenal.

[MattMystrieo]

You wouldn't make it in America.

Why does he have teeth, and a slim body?

[hardboiled]

http://econlog.econlib.org/

[sorros]

I really, really want to watch the U.S squirm as the NATO breaks up and russia starts attacking.


plz dissolve nato. then the U.S and russia can duke it out. the whole world wants to watch this rematch

canada will scavenge the remains of the conflict, and all shall be happy under Canada and universal healthcare.

[Dwhap]

Why would I even want to be there?

It doesn't matter if you want to be here or not. It's just a fact that pussies don't make it here so you would most definitly fail.

[Largion]

It doesn't matter if you want to be here or not. It's just a fact that pussies don't make it here so you would most definitly fail.

I was called a pussy by a Americunt. :(

[Tharkon Fargor]

http://econlog.econlib.org/

Thanks.

[Dwhap]

I was called a pussy by a Americunt. :(

I never call you a pussy.. (You did)

[Largion]

You wouldn't make it in America.

It doesn't matter if you want to be here or not. It's just a fact that pussies don't make it here so you would most definitly fail.

I never call you a pussy.. (You did)

If you say so. ;)

[Tharkon Fargor]

If you say so. ;)

US -1. EUROPE/Canada +1.

Double Pwnage.


Nah but seriously. Don't stray of the topic please.

[Mazer]

Hahah, wow..

[Scully]

Relax. A little socialism will do you good. The whole "freedom" thing doesn't work.

[Dwhap]

If you say so. ;)

I said pussies don't make it here, and that I didn't think you would make it here either. I wasn't trying to imply you were a pussy (but if you think that's the reason you wouldn't make it here, then we will accept that). ;)

And another thing.. Even when the US economy does fail it will still be at least 50 times larger and have more opporunities then any European country even on a good day.

And that's the last of my pro-US banter :)

[Mazer]

I said pussies don't make it here, and that I didn't think you would make it here either. I wasn't trying to imply you were a pussy (but if you think that's the reason you wouldn't make it here, then we will accept that). ;)

No I think it's pretty clear what you implied.

[Tharkon Fargor]

Relax. A little socialism will do you good. The whole "freedom" thing doesn't work.

^.o This isn't socialism tho and neither is it fascism. :ohno::ninja:


And yeah the whole "freedom" thing doesn't work.
"GOD BLESS AMERICA, FREEDOM WILL PREVAIL BY WASTING BILLIONS OF DOLLARS AND THOUSANDS OF LIVES IN A POINTLESS WAR WHILE THE BANKS AND HALIBURTON JUST PROFIT ON!!!"...

Real freedom and liberty might though but that might not be easy on the disabled or poor.

[Largion]

I said pussies don't make it here, and that I didn't think you would make it here either. I wasn't trying to imply you were a pussy (but if you think that's the reason you wouldn't make it here, then we will accept that). ;)

And another thing.. Even when the US economy does fail it will still be at least 50 times larger and have more opporunities then any European country even on a good day.

And that's the last of my pro-US banter :)

You called me a pussy atleast admit that!
I still love you. :p

[Osirus]

I think there's more to blame for our economic woes than this bailout; I think the wars in Iraq/Afghanistan(~$3,000,000,000,000), are more responsible for the economic crisis than poor lending practices. the American economy has been on a downward spiral since Bush took office, perpetuated further downward after the invasion of Iraq.

[Dwhap]

No I think it's pretty clear what you implied.

I think I sense a little inferiority complex with some of you in here..

You called me a pussy atleast admit that!
I still love you. :p

And i don't hate you either :)

[Aragon]

Did you see how massively confused he was reading the teleprompter last night?

Looked like a monkey trying to figure out the controls to a 747jet.

I'm just surprised they pried him away from his fingerpainting session to make an appearance.

What a disgrace that tool is... f-ing tragic he's at the help of this ship. :ohno:

Yeah, im 100% sure he dont have one point above 80 in IQ.

[Tharkon Fargor]

I think I sense a little inferiority complex with some of you in here..

I think he owned you by risking to get flamed on Forumfall. Quite brave done.
Now shut up and back on topic cause I quite like your inputs! :eek:

[Mazer]

I think I sense a little inferiority complex with some of you in here..

Huh? Who called who a pussy and then lied about it?

[Aragon]

Did you see how massively confused he was reading the teleprompter last night?

Looked like a monkey trying to figure out the controls to a 747jet.

I'm just surprised they pried him away from his fingerpainting session to make an appearance.

What a disgrace that tool is... f-ing tragic he's at the help of this ship. :ohno:

Yeah, im 100% sure he dont have one point above 80 in IQ.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mD3lMaMUWxw

[Beorg]

Congress is debating over it, so it might not happen, but either way we're looking at an economic crisis coming our way. I'm thinking about just moving back to the UK. Either the UK or the Netherlands, I always loved it there.

Did you see how massively confused he was reading the teleprompter last night?

Looked like a monkey trying to figure out the controls to a 747jet.

I'm just surprised they pried him away from his fingerpainting session to make an appearance.

What a disgrace that tool is... f-ing tragic he's at the help of this ship. :ohno:

I didn't have the pleasure of watching him last night, but from this I can only assume that he definitely rigged the second election.

[Dwhap]

Huh? Who called who a pussy and then lied about it?

That's what I'm trying to figure out. Man you Europeans are so damn sensitive.. (and no, I didn't just call you a pussy)

[Aragon]

The thing is he now demands it. Maybe I made this a bit unclear in my thread.
It is demanding to steal 700 000 000 000 compared to before when it was simply a suggestion.

He thinks that if this is not done, America will collapse.

It is nothing more than a theft of 700 000 000 000 dollars.
I wonder where all the money the bank lost went to. :ninja:

Greedy americans stole them.

Now the taxpayers have to pay the bill.

[tallefred]

plz dissolve nato. then the U.S and russia can duke it out. the whole world wants to watch this rematch

Besides for Russian and U.S. citizens, who have no interest in another war, especially not with each other.

[Slypieguy]

Seize the means of production, comrade!

[Rhambo]

I bolded it, or are you illiterate with no reading comprehension?

Edit:
This has nothing to fucking do with foreigners, but everything to do with AMERICAN BANKS giving AMERICANS loans they could never afford and shit just hit the fan big time....Fat Albert like big time.

hey hey hey

[Dhig]

I need popcorn for this. Go on...

[Septus]

Make no mistake folks - this bail out bullshit is nothing more then a welfare plan for the rich, which includes just about everyone in the congress and the US senate. They are using our money to protect their investments. The economic impact of letting these institutions fail is not near as dangerous for the Average American as they are trying to sell us on... It's become clear to me that the federal government is corrupt beyond all repair.


Not quite. I agree the government is corrupt, but the bail out is to preserve value of the economy. The economic impact of letting the institutions fail really is as dangerous as they are saying; for you to say otherwise is pure ignorance. There are trillions upon trillions of dollars at stake (which will all disintegrate as everyone scrambles to call back loans and deleverage). This will lead to plants/companies shutting down, jobs lost, etc. I think you're taking liquidity/credit for granted.

Now back to the corruption; I definitely believe our current financial system is bullshit. And like you said, maybe this scare will be enough to get people demand change. But letting the country collapse into depression won't help anything.


It is nothing more than a theft of 700 000 000 000 dollars.
I wonder where all the money the bank lost went to. :ninja:

A lot of it is locked into defaulted homes, along with a variety of ailing financial instruments.

[Dwhap]

This will lead to plants/companies shutting down, jobs lost, etc. I think you're taking liquidity/credit for granted.

Now back to the corruption; I definitely believe our current financial system is bullshit. And like you said, maybe this scare will be enough to get people demand change. But letting the country collapse into depression won't help anything.


A lot of it is locked into defaulted homes, along with a variety of ailing financial instruments.

Your assuming that not bailing them out means that there will be no way for Americans and businesses to get credit. This is just another government lie. What will actually happen (if you listen to any unbiased economist) is interest rates will go up and it will be more difficult to get credit (like it was in the 70s and 80s). One of the reasons we are in this mess is because ANYONE, including a corpse, was able to get a loan. Will our economy fall back on itself a bit? no doubt, but this is already an unstoppable truth.

BTW, As of 10:00 EST, it looks like the bail out is going to fail so maybe there are some brains left in congress after all...

[Hecubis]

Looks like the house republicans finally found their balls and are, at long last, sticking up for the average joe. Now that the NeoCons & Bush have thrown in with the democrats, we can finally see who the real republicans are.

[rockyraccoon]

he should hire the hamburgler to do it for him.

[Zadok]

I really, really want to watch the U.S squirm as the NATO breaks up and russia starts attacking.


plz dissolve nato. then the U.S and russia can duke it out. the whole world wants to watch this rematch

You know War is what got America out of our last financial crisis right? When it comes to fighting, no one fucks with America.

[heroshade]

I can't believe this stupid shit is in charge of people...

[Eskareon]

What will actually happen is interest rates will go up and it will be more difficult to get credit

What will happen to the trillion+ worth of packages that have been leveraged many times over?

[Baralis]

Your assuming that not bailing them out means that there will be no way for Americans and businesses to get credit. This is just another government lie. What will actually happen (if you listen to any unbiased economist) is interest rates will go up and it will be more difficult to get credit (like it was in the 70s and 80s). One of the reasons we are in this mess is because ANYONE, including a corpse, was able to get a loan. Will our economy fall back on itself a bit? no doubt, but this is already an unstoppable truth.

BTW, As of 10:00 EST, it looks like the bail out is going to fail so maybe there are some brains left in congress after all...

From my understanding it will be more than this. Several buisness (some huge) rely on credit to pay their employees. It is projected that several will fall if the finacial instatutions fail. Also with the trillions of dollars out of the system it will largly impact the amount of money that is usable for credit. Like you said it will make getting loans much much harder (which is a good thing imo) but also funds will be so limited that most home and car loans would require 50% +/- down payment simply because their wont be enough money to fully loan the normal 80-90%.

Two possible ways to correct this would be either our government bail out the finacial sector like what has been talked about or outside countries can finance US loans, meaning foriegn investors would own huge amounts of US property (not good imo).

So to sum it up if the government does not bail them out it could make for very very tough times ahead in the US. Mass buisness closings, large increase in unemployment. Loans for everything very hard to get. Market crashing along with the dollar making everything alot more expensive for everyone. A lose lose situation for nearly all.

[Skree]

He should sacrifise *HIS* life for his country then as real patriots do.
Not send others sons and daughters into a war to sacrifise theirs. :idea:I don't think there is any way I could agree with you more.

Skree

[Largion]

But the war is not about his or your country so why is it a patriot act to fight in it?

[Skree]

But the war is not about his or your country so why is it a patriot act to fight in it?I think the hidden meaning went right past you.

Skree

[Largion]

I think the hidden meaning went right past you.

Skree

That he is a coward?
I just wanted to know where the patriot act is in a war about another country. And I hate him and his goverment more then most so im not trying to defend him.

[Tharkon Fargor]

No not that he's a coward. You missed it, it's gone. There's no way of getting it back now Largion.

[Largion]

No not that he's a coward. You missed it, it's gone. There's no way of getting it back now Largion.

CRAP!

What did I miss and why?

I hate you and now I feel stupid. :(

[Jovien]

In the UK the British Government has been pouring billions into the current banking crisis to try and bail out a number of companies.

Not nearly has bad as the US situation but it is pretty nasty stuff.

After the collapse of several banks this year the UK government bailouts are looking to be one of the most costly in history.

Good old Bush he scammed two elections, invaded two countries, fucked his ou nation over, but now content with that mess he starts exporting his problems overseas.

Thank you Presidick Bush.

And god only hopes Backstabbing-Wartooting-McCain doesn't win the election. I feel so so very sorry for america right now, they are in some serious trouble. :'(

[Lictor]

Right......because no one collects on their loans...even when they grab a controlling interest in the If you speak about IIWWcompany......nono, our government will just.....forget about it right? Just sweep 700 billion under the rug like it never happpened.

Just watch them doing it!

Besides for Russian and U.S. citizens, who have no interest in another war, especially not with each other.

No sane people want war. It's only whackos and greedy motherfuckers in power, who wish for war.

You know War is what got America out of our last financial crisis right? When it comes to fighting, no one fucks with America.

If you speak about WW2, then it was total destruction of all that time world-significant economies other than USA's, which was the cause of American postwar economical boom. Many US/British bombardments of industrial and urban targets in Germany-occupied areas close to end of 1945 were aimed not to cripple German war effort (with Germany already on its knees), but to cripple the post-war economies of occupied European countries. Thus, after the war was over, America's industrial power was in perfect condition, had virtually no competition world-wide, could serve and sell its products (yes, these were the mythic times, when USA actually produced goods with their own hands, not Chinese's!) to everyone for arbitrary (mostly very high) prices and additionally loaned money to the destroyed countries. The said countries had no better option, than accede to that. This was - no wonder - an era of great prosperity for USA.

The similar yet not the same case is with Iraq - the country's industrial and other economy-important objects have been destroyed in two campaigns and now these are being rebuilt by mostly American companies. Iraqi oil is then taken as a payment, and it must be said, it's a great business for USA! The difference between this and post WW2 situation is, that USA was not in the position of occupant in post war Europe and thus had not needed to invest huge resources into upkeep of (let's be honest) occupying forces. These expenses are now payed directly by American tax payers, while the revenues from Iraqi occupation flow mostly into the pockets of mighty corporations running today America.

The fact is, that somehow along the way things changed and the economical well-being of American oil, banking and arms industries do not project onto well-being of common American citizens anymore. Why it is different today is a topic for another discussion, I guess.