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View Full Version : America needs to adopt China's birth policy or we are all screwed.



NapalmEnema
09-23-2008, 14:44
You know what's going to cave American? Over population by people that have no business having kids in the first place. This trend we are on now of just letting the lowest common denominator breed willy nilly is going to bite us in the ass one day and it's going to be UGLY.

You know what should happen when you walk into a hospital and you can't pay for your pregnancy? You should be jotted down on a nice little list. The second time you come in, for another kid, they refer to the list, deliver your kid, then sterilize your irresponsible ass so you can't make any more flesh turds you can't possibly afford.

I'm so sick of seeing someone with 5+ kids walking around with no visible means of supporting them. Oh that's right, I'M SUPPORTING THEM. :bang:

True story here kids, gather around the fire:

I was in college at a store, buying some ramen noodles (instant soup, about .10 cents a serving), as that's what I could swing at the time and I guess eating packing insulation is part of being a student. At any rate, in front of me was a pack of 5 kids and their mother. While their massive pile of groceries was being rung up, the lady behind the counter came upon a bag of dogfood... She politely said 'Ma'am, that's not going to be covered by your LoneStar card (wellfare card)'. So the mother, without missing a beat, turned to one of her brood and said :idea: "Hey, go put this dogfood back and go get the dog some steaks" :bang::bang::bang::bang:

Good thing I was living within my means and not being a parasite while I rung up my noodles and headed home.

Behhemoth
09-23-2008, 14:47
Hah yeah it really makes me mad to see leeches crawling around everywhere. Good idea about the ramen noodles, that is what I was planning on buying in bulk for college. That and dasani water. That would be my diet.

Aragoni
09-23-2008, 14:54
The day the government tells me I can't have children I'll go V (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V_for_Vendetta_(film)) on their asses.

NapalmEnema
09-23-2008, 14:58
The day the government tells me I can't have children I'll go V (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V_for_Vendetta_(film)) on their asses.

Make an argument for why we should just keep on allowing unfettered breeding, I'm dying to hear an actual point aside from your illogical statement.

Who's going to pay for all these kids? And kids brought up without proper parenting = criminals or worse in most cases - that's a fact.

The economy can't keep pace with the level of kids being made these days, when I was a kid we'd have about 20 kids to a class, there are reports in CA of classes of 45+ and the healthcare system is being overwhelmed with no money coming in. Why do you think YOUR healthcare is so high? You're paying for kid #6 from an unfit mother because she can't keep her meat curtains closed.

Please present your argument, I love V for Vendetta but you have no logical assertion for your statement.

Lethn
09-23-2008, 14:58
The government can bite me as far as I'm concerned, that goes for the UK and the U.S, when they start being competent and show respect to their taxpayers instead of treating them like dirt then I might be more inclined to listen to them.

Oh! Shiny! I just reached the 5000+ mark!

Oh and you know what the REAL solution is for Earth being overpopulated? Space and there's tons of it along with samples actually taken from certain planets i.e mars which have water sources in them which might allow us to survive there, not to mention there's the possibility there might be tons of new and more reliable resources out there we could use, like for instance, the sun, if we built space stations around it.

NapalmEnema
09-23-2008, 15:00
The government can bite me as far as I'm concerned, that goes for the UK and the U.S, when they start being competent and show respect to their taxpayers instead of treating them like dirt then I might be more inclined to listen to them.

Oh! Shiny! I just reached the 5000+ mark!

Oh and you know what the REAL solution is for Earth being overpopulated? Space and there's tons of it along with samples actually taken from certain planets i.e mars which have water sources in them which might allow us to survive there.

You don't think 2 kids is more than enough for someone that has no job, no prospects, and is living off of society? :confused:

And space isn't the answer, the lowest common denominator will overwhelm natural resources and the economy long before we are all using jetpacks to get around and being Buck Rogers.

Lethn
09-23-2008, 15:03
How exactly can they be leeching off society when America barely has any social programs to begin with? Your logic is flawed as well as many others who blame the current financial crisis on people getting off benefits, they CAN'T be leeching off the government if the government isn't providing them anything, if anything they're probably just leeching off the person who's earning them their money in the family.

It's been said time and time again that it's the fault of the artificial and debt based economy and worthless paper money that's causing the inflation and this isn't me talking either it's Ron Paul, just ranting about something you happened to see that pisses you off doesn't mean it effects the entire fucking globe.

And how do you know these people actually have jobs but are stuck on minimum wage and can't pay off their debts because of the rapidly rising prices with things such as oh... I don't know? Oil which the government seems to be more and more noticeably involved with pricing wise.

Vmax
09-23-2008, 15:06
Hmm let me see.
*you oppose welfare so you must be a right wing/republican/libertarian
*You suggest the government should determine who can produce children and how many they can produce, so you must be socialst/democrat/communist/*fill in any totalitarian governement*

what is it? youre a pinky or a redneck?

Ferox
09-23-2008, 15:07
China got rid of its policy, I believe in the late 90s... sucks for the planet.



anyways, yes we need to control our birth rate.. big time. The planet can barely hold the population on it today, let alone in 20 years.

PrimalSign
09-23-2008, 15:09
This is a classic case of mistaking the cause and the symptoms. Overpopulation may be a problem in the future, but America will only suffer if it enforces a birth quota while other cultures continue to pump out more biomass.

No, the real problem here is the social programs benefiting the irresponsible persons. Even if they are not completely removed there shouldn't be benefit for the grossly negligent.

NapalmEnema
09-23-2008, 15:09
How exactly can they be leeching off society when America barely has any social programs to begin with? Your logic is flawed as well as many others who blame the current financial crisis on people getting off benefits, they CAN'T be leeching off the government if the government isn't providing them anything.

It's been said time and time again that it's the fault of the artificial and debt based economy and worthless paper money that's causing the inflation and this isn't me talking either it's Ron Paul, just ranting about something you happened to see doesn't mean it effects the entire fucking globe.

And how do you know these people actually have jobs but are stuck on minimum wage and can't pay off their debts because of the rapidly rising prices with things such as oh... I don't know? Oil which the government seems to be more and more noticeably involved with pricing wise.

Not getting anything? They get tax rebates, payment for each kid each year, social programs out the yin yang, medical care, free OBGYN etc.. They may not be eating caviare every night, but they are certainly bleeding the system and overwhelming the school systems.

Use your head man - if the lowest common denominator has 5 kids, and the people that can afford them have 2 because they are not idiots, how do you think that will work out - long term? It's not a cheery prospect. Most of those 5 kid homes don't have a father figure and their opportunities due to their poverty are slim to none. So they turn to crime or drugs or become parasites as their parents were. The cycle continues and we are footing the bill.

You are fooling yourself if you don't think there are countless social programs out there for these kind of people. Most of them weigh out the benefit of a low paying job vs/government aid and stay unemployed because it's close to what they would be making at a career they could do.

Irodim
09-23-2008, 15:09
If memory serves, China doesn't have a birth policy any more.

NapalmEnema
09-23-2008, 15:12
Hmm let me see.
*you oppose welfare so you must be a right wing/republican/libertarian
*You suggest the government should determine who can produce children and how many they can produce, so you must be socialst/democrat/communist/*fill in any totalitarian governement*

what is it? youre a pinky or a redneck?

I'm neither, I'm just pointing out a problem and there has to be some limiter there or we are all screwed.

Republican / Democrat / Communist / whatever - if this isn't addressed, we will have a serious problem in the next 20-50 years.

Shyhalu
09-23-2008, 15:13
I certainly wouldn't mind.

Its not like they have children out of love, they do it for the odds of one of them actually being a success, rather than a complete waste of life.

NapalmEnema
09-23-2008, 15:13
China got rid of its policy, I believe in the late 90s... sucks for the planet.



anyways, yes we need to control our birth rate.. big time. The planet can barely hold the population on it today, let alone in 20 years.

Nah, it's still around and still being applied. 1 kid in cities, 2 in rural areas.

Bissen
09-23-2008, 15:15
America needs to adopt China's birth policy or we are all screwed.

So you're trying to say you ain't screwed with chinas birth policy?

Lethn
09-23-2008, 15:16
Where the hell did you pull those statistics from? Out of your arse or from your dick? I have to admit I kinda missed getting flamed about this sort of thing by Matriel, at least he offered some decent points. You just pulled an opinionated stereotype out of nowhere and tried to pass it off as a fact, get some REAL facts to me that are from a reliable source and then I might be more inclined to agree with your view point, yes there probably are social programs out there, from what I know though they are provided state by state also most of these social programs your thinking about though are provided by insurance companies and not through the actual government like here in the UK.

And holy fuck I can't believe I'm actually winning an argument when I haven't even slept for 24+ hours, what the human race NEEDS is to expand and that's out in space, Earth simply can't hold us anymore and I think now at last there are people finally starting to realize that, but the solution isn't to force mothers to stop having kids and anyway if your planning on doing a favour for us at least have the sense to target fascist governments that are pretty much setting us up to be sent into the stone age because of their greed.

Oh and believe me with the technology we have it's well possible it's just that certain idiot governments have been far too busy spending money on war than on useful things that we've had people predicting doomsday constantly lately.

KoMM
09-23-2008, 15:16
The day the government tells me I can't have children I'll go V (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V_for_Vendetta_%28film%29) on their asses.

this.

NapalmEnema
09-23-2008, 15:18
Where the hell did you pull those statistics from? Out of your arse or from your dick? I have to admit I kinda missed getting flamed about this sort of thing by Matriel, at least he offered some decent points. You just pulled an opinionated stereotype out of nowhere and tried to pass it off as a fact, get some REAL facts to me that are from a reliable source and then I might be more inclined to agree with your view point, yes there probably are social programs out there, from what I know though they are provided state by state also most of these social programs your thinking about though are provided by insurance companies and not through the actual government like here in the UK.

And holy fuck I can't believe I'm actually winning an argument when I haven't even slept for 24+ hours.

You're winning an argument? You don't live here man, it's turning into a freaking end of days scenario.

Carl Ragadamn
09-23-2008, 15:20
OP how about no, your idea encroaches upon the very freedoms that America is built on. You dont like welfare, great lets trash it. The bonus side effect would be poor people breeding less. See I fixed 2 problems without resorting to fascism.

Lethn
09-23-2008, 15:21
Except the only problem with that is Carl America doesn't really have a huge Welfare system in the first place :p or at least that's what I hear.

NapalmEnema
09-23-2008, 15:22
OP how about no, your idea encroaches upon the very freedoms that America is built on. You dont like welfare, great lets trash it. The bonus side effect would be poor people breeding less. See I fixed 2 problems without resorting to fascism.

I'm open for other suggestions, but what you propose would result in almost a civil war. The people that rely on those faulty services would turn to crime and this country would implode.

Lethn
09-23-2008, 15:22
Space space space... aaaaand SPACE!!!

NapalmEnema
09-23-2008, 15:24
Space space space... aaaaand SPACE!!!

Ok lets go with your suggestion for a moment.

You have a huge chunk of the population being bred without skills, goals, ambitions, or direction. You have a small portion of the population moving the world forward. Are you suggesting we shoot the unwashed masses into space?

Maybe you have a good idea after all :) We should aim said rocket directly at the sun. :D

PrimalSign
09-23-2008, 15:24
Space space space... aaaaand SPACE!!!

While I share your enthusiasm for space travel, it isn't a realistic solution at this point in time. We'll never reach space if only idiots are reproducing and draining the funds that could be going towards scientific advancement.

NapalmEnema
09-23-2008, 15:24
While I share your enthusiasm for space travel, it isn't a realistic solution at this point in time. We'll never reach space if only idiots are reproducing and draining the funds that could be going towards scientific advancement.

B
I
N
G
O

Lethn
09-23-2008, 15:26
While I share your enthusiasm for space travel, it isn't a realistic solution at this point in time. We'll never reach space if only idiots are reproducing and draining the funds that could be going towards scientific advancement.

You know... that's usually a sign that we need a revolution, frankly, I don't really want to be blown up from a nuclear bomb just because some idiot on the other side of the world decided to get twitchy at what another idiot was taunting them about.

Oh and also apparently there was a plan to build some sort of space elevator and station but I don't know what happened to that, rest assured though if I ever earn millions I am DEFINITELY going to invest in space flight.

ah here it is! Wikipedia ftw!


Current technology is not capable of manufacturing materials that are sufficiently strong and light to build an Earth based space elevator as the total mass of conventional materials needed to construct such a structure would be far too great. Recent proposals for a space elevator are notable in their plans to use carbon nanotube-based materials as the tensile element in the tether design, since the theoretical strength of carbon nanotubes appears great enough to make this practical. Current technology may be able to support elevators in other locations in the solar system however, and other designs for space elevators exist that use current materials.

looks like it's certainly still in the planning stage.

Ultimo
09-23-2008, 15:32
Why do you think 80% of the wealth and 50% of the income go to 20% of America's population? It's proven that less education = more reproduction, its a sociological phenomenon.

The rich have less kids, who in turn inherit wealth and become wealthier, the poor have a lot of kids and their money gets drained even more. I'm not sure why people complain about the distribution of wealth when it is each individual's life choices that put them in the position they are in.

And don't tell me that some people don't have a choice. That is just bullshit. Everyone has a choice as to where they end up in the long run. Some people may have to work harder for it, but opportunities are there. the real truth is that most people lack the motivation to become successful and find it easier to slack through life. And it's true, slacking is easier...

NapalmEnema
09-23-2008, 15:33
You know... that's usually a sign that we need a revolution, frankly, I don't really want to be blown up from a nuclear bomb just because some idiot on the other side of the world decided to get twitchy at what another idiot was taunting them about.

Oh and also apparently there was a plan to build some sort of space elevator and station but I don't know what happened to that, rest assured though if I ever earn millions I am DEFINITELY going to invest in space flight.

ah here it is! Wikipedia ftw!



looks like it's certainly still in the planning stage.

You know some fuckass would graffiti in that elevator and stick gum to a wall.

You just KNOW it. :bang:

Lethn
09-23-2008, 15:33
*jitters about in hyper fashion after drinking caffeine*

Unless of course you do the sensible thing and have security guards watching it.

Carl Ragadamn
09-23-2008, 15:41
I'm open for other suggestions, but what you propose would result in almost a civil war. The people that rely on those faulty services would turn to crime and this country would implode.

So when they turn to crime, we put them in prison and make them work picking vegetables instead of paying illegal immigrants to do it.

Vmax
09-23-2008, 15:42
I'm open for other suggestions, but what you propose would result in almost a civil war. The people that rely on those faulty services would turn to crime and this country would implode.

I have your solution:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenetics

[LoD] EE
09-23-2008, 15:43
You know what's going to cave American? Over population by people that have no business having kids in the first place. This trend we are on now of just letting the lowest common denominator breed willy nilly is going to bite us in the ass one day and it's going to be UGLY.

You know what should happen when you walk into a hospital and you can't pay for your pregnancy? You should be jotted down on a nice little list. The second time you come in, for another kid, they refer to the list, deliver your kid, then sterilize your irresponsible ass so you can't make any more flesh turds you can't possibly afford.

I'm so sick of seeing someone with 5+ kids walking around with no visible means of supporting them. Oh that's right, I'M SUPPORTING THEM. :bang:

True story here kids, gather around the fire:

I was in college at a store, buying some ramen noodles (instant soup, about .10 cents a serving), as that's what I could swing at the time and I guess eating packing insulation is part of being a student. At any rate, in front of me was a pack of 5 kids and their mother. While their massive pile of groceries was being rung up, the lady behind the counter came upon a bag of dogfood... She politely said 'Ma'am, that's not going to be covered by your LoneStar card (wellfare card)'. So the mother, without missing a beat, turned to one of her brood and said :idea: "Hey, go put this dogfood back and go get the dog some steaks" :bang::bang::bang::bang:

Good thing I was living within my means and not being a parasite while I rung up my noodles and headed home.

FAIL.

Americans birth to death ratio is below re population standards, whats riving our population boom is massive illegal immigration, massive illegal immigrants popping out anchor babies and our allowing 1-2.5 million immigrants into the US each year.

Kheiron
09-23-2008, 15:44
looks like it's certainly still in the planning stage.

Still in the whimsical theory stage really. I certainly wouldn't chalk such half baked ideas up as potential solutions to todays problems, that's for sure.

Personally, I've seen enough irresponsible parenting to make me side with the op in general. It's really got nothing to do with the global population either, I just know some people simply shouldn't have kids. Those retarded teenagers who wont use a rubber, idiot ugly chicks who want a baby so they wont be lonely, those lazy cunts who look at thier kids as a means of support, delusional bitches who watch Jerry Springer and Maury Povich for 12 hours a day and go on and on about how hard and time consuming being a mother is when you drag thier delinquint idiot child home after it tried setting fire to your garden shed...

Hell, I'm limited to having 2 dogs on my property, why can't that welfare family over the back suffer a limit on thier half breed mongrels as well?

[LoD] EE
09-23-2008, 15:46
The economy can't keep pace with the level of kids being made these days, when I was a kid we'd have about 20 kids to a class, there are reports in CA of classes of 45+ and the healthcare system is being overwhelmed with no money coming in. Why do you think YOUR healthcare is so high? You're paying for kid #6 from an unfit mother because she can't keep her meat curtains closed.


When I was in high school in the very early 90's, we had 60 students in some classes. We had over 3,000 students in high school made for 1300. One high school for a city of 85,000 plus.

California is one of the states that cant afford to educate all these children of illegals, each student costs California approx $7,500 a year today.

Kheiron
09-23-2008, 15:46
So when they turn to crime, we put them in prison and make them work picking vegetables instead of paying illegal immigrants to do it.

That sounds good in theory, but if I recall it costs something like 50k a year to keep someone in prison, and you'll deny a job market to law abiding citizens by subjugating it for prison use.

Bullets are cheap though...

NapalmEnema
09-23-2008, 15:46
EE;1727281']FAIL.

Americans birth to death ratio is below re population standards, whats riving our population boom is massive illegal immigration, massive illegal immigrants popping out anchor babies and our allowing 1-2.5 million immigrants into the US each year.

The immigrants are having TONS of kids (yay Catholics) and it's just getting worse.

Ziegler
09-23-2008, 15:50
To the feller sayin that the government programs are not government programs....get a clue...they are government progrma, insurance companies dont do shit for nobody that aint paying them...and sometimes not even then. They WILL try to avoid paying on claims, and to give one example...hurricane andrew...the insurance companies just up and said...nope, we aint convering damages, cause we cant afford it.

Welfare, WIC, Free Lunch program, medicaid...are all government run programs. <<< stress the period

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-child_policy

While I hate using stupedia for a reference, I aint go time to go delving deep for other soruces, but quick review of that shows it is still in place, the thing they did away with in the 90's was genetic screening of potential marriages.

Fro
09-23-2008, 15:50
You know what's going to cave American? Over population by people that have no business having kids in the first place. This trend we are on now of just letting the lowest common denominator breed willy nilly is going to bite us in the ass one day and it's going to be UGLY.

You know what should happen when you walk into a hospital and you can't pay for your pregnancy? You should be jotted down on a nice little list. The second time you come in, for another kid, they refer to the list, deliver your kid, then sterilize your irresponsible ass so you can't make any more flesh turds you can't possibly afford.

I'm so sick of seeing someone with 5+ kids walking around with no visible means of supporting them. Oh that's right, I'M SUPPORTING THEM. :bang:

True story here kids, gather around the fire:

I was in college at a store, buying some ramen noodles (instant soup, about .10 cents a serving), as that's what I could swing at the time and I guess eating packing insulation is part of being a student. At any rate, in front of me was a pack of 5 kids and their mother. While their massive pile of groceries was being rung up, the lady behind the counter came upon a bag of dogfood... She politely said 'Ma'am, that's not going to be covered by your LoneStar card (wellfare card)'. So the mother, without missing a beat, turned to one of her brood and said :idea: "Hey, go put this dogfood back and go get the dog some steaks" :bang::bang::bang::bang:

Good thing I was living within my means and not being a parasite while I rung up my noodles and headed home.

Are you poor?

Temet nosce
09-23-2008, 15:53
Dear Op, No fucking duh. The end.

Frankly I've actually lost patience with explaining this to people. The world is overpopulated and we're paying for it. Of course noone actually wants to DO anything about it, that would be far to fucking practical.

NapalmEnema
09-23-2008, 15:54
Are you poor?

Nope.

I was a poor college student, but I also don't have 5 siblings.

I'm doing great now, not a parasite on society, and my wife and I plan on having 2 kids max.

I practice what I preach.

Temet nosce
09-23-2008, 15:56
Nope.

I was a poor college student, but I also don't have 5 siblings.

I'm doing great now, not a parasite on society, and my wife and I plan on having 2 kids max.

I practice what I preach.

Good. You may not be doing anything to fix the problem but at least unlike 90+% of everybody else you aren't making it worse or being hypocritical.

Personally I'm never having children. Full stop. I may adopt but that's as close as I get.

Ultimo
09-23-2008, 15:57
Nope.

I was a poor college student, but I also don't have 5 siblings.

I'm doing great now, not a parasite on society, and my wife and I plan on having 2 kids max.

I practice what I preach.

I thought the moral was that poor people should have less kids and rich people can have as many kids as they can afford?

That makes the most sense. If that were to happen, then our country would make progress and the less effective individuals would be slowly weeded out through birth control.

alfaroverall
09-23-2008, 15:59
The entire Western world's population is declining, OP, including that of America. (The US's population is only increasing because of the following:
i=immigration rate
e=emigration rate
b=birth rate
d=death rate
i-e>b-d)
We may have some individuals who have far more kids than they can afford, but the birth rate is less than the death rate here, and not because the death rate is extremely high. The places we need China's birth policy are in certain parts of Asia and especially in Africa, not here. We really need more Americans if the populations of those areas isn't going to decline, because (and this is because of governments and geography, NOT because of genetics, so don't try to play the race card) those people don't produce any resources. Rather, they consume resources that are given to them.

Myself, I plan to adopt if I ever have children, but overpopulation is only a secondary reason for that. My primary reason is that, IMO, we have no right to produce more children when there are tens of millions of orphans in the world suffering for no reason.

Kheiron
09-23-2008, 15:59
Good. You may not be doing anything to fix the problem but at least unlike 90+% of everybody else you aren't making it worse or being hypocritical.

Personally I'm never having children. Full stop. I may adopt but that's as close as I get.

I reckon I'll end up having children when they let us smack them again. I'll be fucked if I'm going to have some 5 year old result of my nut juice mouthing off at me without copping a backhand.

NapalmEnema
09-23-2008, 16:00
I thought the moral was that poor people should have less kids and rich people can have as many kids as they can afford?

That makes the most sense. If that were to happen, then our country would make progress and the less effective individuals would be slowly weeded out through birth control.

That should be the argument, but the rich and educated people don't want their lifestyle all f'd up by a pile of kids running everywhere.

Honestly does anyone really NEED more than 2-3 kids? How many do you really need?

I agree the most well off should have more, but the most well off and the most educated usually understand two things:

1. You don't need a ton of kids.
2. The less kids you have, the better job you can do as a parent, giving them the care and direction they need and a family dynamic that doesn't get them left in the cold.

I'm having 2 max, if any, because I don't think more is beneficial and the more you have the less attention you can dedicate to each one. That's how you make successful kids, by being a part of their life and not just having them to have them or being to stupid to understand that jizz makes babies when you deposit it in your meat hole.

Kheiron
09-23-2008, 16:04
The entire Western world's population is declining, OP, including that of America. (The US's population is only increasing because of the following:
i=immigration rate
e=emigration rate
b=birth rate
d=death rate
i-e>b-d)
We may have some individuals who have far more kids than they can afford, but the birth rate is less than the death rate here, and not because the death rate is extremely high. The places we need China's birth policy are in certain parts of Asia and especially in Africa, not here.

Myself, I plan to adopt if I ever have children, but overpopulation is only a secondary reason for that. My primary reason is that, IMO, we have no right to produce more children when there are tens of millions of orphans in the world suffering for no reason.

The CIA seem to differ.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/print/us.html

Birth rate:
14.18 births/1,000 population (2008 est.)
Death rate:
8.27 deaths/1,000 population (2008 est.)

That'll result in a net gain, if my math doesn't suck.

Temet nosce
09-23-2008, 16:06
The entire Western world's population is declining, OP, including that of America. (The US's population is only increasing because of the following:
i=immigration rate
e=emigration rate
b=birth rate
d=death rate
i-e>b-d)
We may have some individuals who have far more kids than they can afford, but the birth rate is less than the death rate here, and not because the death rate is extremely high. The places we need China's birth policy are in certain parts of Asia and especially in Africa, not here.

Myself, I plan to adopt if I ever have children, but overpopulation is only a secondary reason for that. My primary reason is that, IMO, we have no right to produce more children when there are tens of millions of orphans in the world suffering for no reason.

What in the world are you talking about? Last time I saw the birth/death rate we were at nearly double on births compared with deaths (admittedly that was a 06 chart, but I doubt it changed that much since then). Now I'm unsure whether that's purely due to immigrants having enormous families or not but that's still far away from a falling population.

Still, even if that was true would it be a bad thing? We already have ridiculous numbers of children (and people in general for that matter) in America whose parents can't support them. We don't really need more, and as far as adoption I agree. We do not need more children, we have to many.

That said I won't disagree that this policy is needed much worse in other parts of the world. However it still would be a good idea for us to adopt it as well.

alfaroverall
09-23-2008, 16:07
The CIA seem to differ.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/print/us.html

Birth rate:
14.18 births/1,000 population (2008 est.)
Death rate:
8.27 deaths/1,000 population (2008 est.)

That'll result in a net gain, if my math doesn't suck.
Touche (ack, no num pad on my laptop=no accent on my e.). Apparently America is an exception to the norm...

I retract my statement, at least regarding America. Carry on, even though I still continue with my idea that we need more Americans to be able to pay for the resources that are going to be pumped into humanitarian aid whether you like it or not.

Weeking
09-23-2008, 16:07
If America adopts a one-child policy, Americans are screwed.

Also no person can make a kid singlehandedly nor raise one.

All women should be pregnant all the time IMO, only hampered by lack of food causing them to become infertile or miscarry.

Kheiron
09-23-2008, 16:15
What we need more then America putting the reigns on the sperm loosing is doing away with this capitalism and democracy crap on a world wide scale. In a closed and delicately balanced system running society on the basis of maximized profit is only going to bite us in the arse, and running a system of government based on the popular vote of ill informed idiots doesn't inspire confidence either. In fact, I can't remember a recent democracy where the populace didn't view politicians as skum sucking faggots half a rung above lawyers.

It may seem ironic, but I wouldn't be surprised to find a nuclear apocalypse being the only way the world will survive the human race.

Fro
09-23-2008, 16:19
Nope.

I was a poor college student, but I also don't have 5 siblings.

I'm doing great now, not a parasite on society, and my wife and I plan on having 2 kids max.

I practice what I preach.

So i assume you have a nice house and a car and aren't struggling financialy?

NapalmEnema
09-23-2008, 16:24
So i assume you have a nice house and a car and aren't struggling financialy?

I have a nice house, two reasonable cars, and I have some debt but nothing crazy.

Your point?

fanficbug
09-23-2008, 16:27
My family is poor, and no we are not on welfare. And gods willing never will be. But recently our car was stolen, the apartment that we're living in got new owners who want to raise the price of our rent, and I had to go to the emergency room twice for complications arising from an unknown illness that may or may not be killing me. We won't know until more tests are done, which my insurance won't afford at the moment.

It's great to know that a lot of you want to limit my personal rights (or, in some cases, you want me to die) because my family has had a run of bad luck.

But being poor is always the poor person's fault and always means that the poor person is selfish, lazy, stupid, and is directly causing you problems, right? Right?

alfaroverall
09-23-2008, 16:27
http://www.amazon.com/Dominant-Animal-Human-Evolution-Environment/dp/1597260967
An interesting book on this and related subjects.

fanficbug: as I said before, it is my opinion that no one should be in a massive wad of fail economically in this country when tertiary education is available "for free" to every American, whether by loans that can be paid off after college or by outright need-based grants. If you got a bachelor's or higher and are still struggling (and aren't lazy, don't spend ridiculously frivolously, and aren't involved in activities such as the drug trade) then I'll say you really had a run of bad luck. As it is now I'd say your situation is probably at least partly your own fault.

And don't give me bullshit about "that's not the path I wanted to take", either, because that just means it was your fault completely.

palo god
09-23-2008, 16:29
My family is poor, and no we are not on welfare. And gods willing never will be. But recently our car was stolen, the apartment that we're living in got new owners who want to raise the price of our rent, and I had to go to the emergency room twice for complications arising from an unknown illness that may or may not be killing me. We won't know until more tests are done, which my insurance won't afford at the moment.

It's great to know that a lot of you want to limit my personal rights (or, in some cases, you want me to die) because my family has had a run of bad luck.

But being poor is always the poor person's fault and always means that the poor person is selfish, lazy, stupid, and is directly causing you problems, right? Right?

Save the guilt trip, that's life.

Carl Ragadamn
09-23-2008, 16:30
My family is poor, and no we are not on welfare. And gods willing never will be. But recently our car was stolen, the apartment that we're living in got new owners who want to raise the price of our rent, and I had to go to the emergency room twice for complications arising from an unknown illness that may or may not be killing me. We won't know until more tests are done, which my insurance won't afford at the moment.

It's great to know that a lot of you want to limit my personal rights (or, in some cases, you want me to die) because my family has had a run of bad luck.

But being poor is always the poor person's fault and always means that the poor person is selfish, lazy, stupid, and is directly causing you problems, right? Right?


Poverty has many causes, but persistent poverty is the fault of the people themselves. I doubt you will be persistently poor, you seem to have the necessary fire to dig yourself out.

NapalmEnema
09-23-2008, 16:30
My family is poor, and no we are not on welfare. And gods willing never will be. But recently our car was stolen, the apartment that we're living in got new owners who want to raise the price of our rent, and I had to go to the emergency room twice for complications arising from an unknown illness that may or may not be killing me. We won't know until more tests are done, which my insurance won't afford at the moment.

It's great to know that a lot of you want to limit my personal rights (or, in some cases, you want me to die) because my family has had a run of bad luck.

But being poor is always the poor person's fault and always means that the poor person is selfish, lazy, stupid, and is directly causing you problems, right? Right?

My family has it's share of hardships, believe me, but you nor I are the point of this thread. (unless you are sitting in said apartment with 5 other siblings)

How many brothers and sisters do you have? If it's not more than 2, you're not the point of this thread, and if you are still poor when you move out and live on your own, I hope you would not sit around pumping out kid after kid after kid after kid.

There is a difference between overcoming / coping with adversity, and inviting problems into your own home and relying on society to take care of them. Hopefull you are on the front side of that statement and not the back.

fanficbug
09-23-2008, 16:31
Save the guilt trip, that's life.

I know that that's life. For some anyway.

Clearly not for people who say "LIMIT THE NUMBER OF KIDS OR KILL THEM, THAT'LL SOLVE EVERYTHING LOLS" though.

My issue is the complete lack of empathy and thought that went into this discussion. Poor people are talked about as if they're scum that aren't worth consideration. Frankly, we're not.


There is a difference between overcoming / coping with adversity, and inviting problems into your own home and relying on society to take care of them. Hopefull you are on the front side of that statement and not the back.

How many brothers and sisters I have is none of your business.

My mother is a registered nurse and gets paid plenty. Satisfied?

As previously mentioned, yes I am poor. No I am not on welfare. I don't have kids at the moment. I did almost have twins in October, but I miscarried. I don't have a job, but I'm also technically disabled (not on the disabled persons list as yet) and an artist. I'm hoping my prints will sell. I don't rely on my parents to support me, and thus I am poor.

So I get less rights because of this? Yeah, that's fair. Totally fair because screw those people who turned out less lucky than me, and got sick and had to quit work. Am I right?

NapalmEnema
09-23-2008, 16:32
I know that that's life. For some anyway.

Clearly not for people who say "LIMIT THE NUMBER OF KIDS OR KILL THEM, THAT'LL SOLVE EVERYTHING LOLS" though.

That's nothing that I said, or implied. But if that's the extent of your reading comprehension then mayhaps you should refrain from procreating. :ohno:

Kheiron
09-23-2008, 16:35
My family is poor, and no we are not on welfare. And gods willing never will be. But recently our car was stolen, the apartment that we're living in got new owners who want to raise the price of our rent, and I had to go to the emergency room twice for complications arising from an unknown illness that may or may not be killing me. We won't know until more tests are done, which my insurance won't afford at the moment.

It's great to know that a lot of you want to limit my personal rights (or, in some cases, you want me to die) because my family has had a run of bad luck.

But being poor is always the poor person's fault and always means that the poor person is selfish, lazy, stupid, and is directly causing you problems, right? Right?

Yeah, pretty much

NapalmEnema
09-23-2008, 16:36
I know that that's life. For some anyway.

Clearly not for people who say "LIMIT THE NUMBER OF KIDS OR KILL THEM, THAT'LL SOLVE EVERYTHING LOLS" though.



How many brothers and sisters I have is none of your business.

My mother is a registered nurse and gets paid plenty. Satisfied?

As previously mentioned, yes I am poor. No I am not on welfare. I don't have kids. I don't have a job, but I'm also disabled and an artist. I'm hoping my prints will sell. I don't rely on my parents to support me, and thus I am poor.

So I get less rights because of this? Yeah, that's fair. Totally fair that because screw those people who turned out less lucky than me, and got sick and had to quit work. Am I right?


Go scrape together some change and buy a crowbar - use that to remove the HUGE chip from your shoulder then come back and read and talk like an adult.

Sheesh... some people.

Ultimo
09-23-2008, 16:39
My family is poor, and no we are not on welfare. And gods willing never will be. But recently our car was stolen, the apartment that we're living in got new owners who want to raise the price of our rent, and I had to go to the emergency room twice for complications arising from an unknown illness that may or may not be killing me. We won't know until more tests are done, which my insurance won't afford at the moment.

It's great to know that a lot of you want to limit my personal rights (or, in some cases, you want me to die) because my family has had a run of bad luck.

But being poor is always the poor person's fault and always means that the poor person is selfish, lazy, stupid, and is directly causing you problems, right? Right?

It is your fault. My father died when I was 14, leaving me to support a sister and a mother, both of which had no job experience. I started working full time at that age (second shift), and never really stopped (and still graduated high school with a near 4.0 gpa), and I was able to not only support the family, but now am supporting myself and paying my own way through college.

In other words, don't give boohoo bullshit. Go get a job you lazy, unmotivated, ill fuck.

fanficbug
09-23-2008, 16:39
Go scrape together some change and buy a crowbar - use that to remove the HUGE chip from your shoulder then come back and read and talk like an adult.

Sheesh... some people.

How about give some thought to people, have some empathy, and consider that most poor people are not poor by choice.


In other words, don't give boohoo bullshit. Go get a job you lazy, unmotivated, ill fuck.

Because I should definitely kill myself to make you feel better.


EDIT: P.S.: http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=70450 Cause five years of grinding it out so I could make art makes me lazy and unmotivated. Mmmhmm.
I'm sure my husband and family totally agrees with you. 100%.

Jezrith
09-23-2008, 16:40
I was in college at a store, buying some ramen noodles (instant soup, about .10 cents a serving), as that's what I could swing at the time and I guess eating packing insulation is part of being a student. At any rate, in front of me was a pack of 5 kids and their mother. While their massive pile of groceries was being rung up, the lady behind the counter came upon a bag of dogfood... She politely said 'Ma'am, that's not going to be covered by your LoneStar card (wellfare card)'. So the mother, without missing a beat, turned to one of her brood and said :idea: "Hey, go put this dogfood back and go get the dog some steaks" :bang::bang::bang::bang:


The problem isn't unfettered breeding, its uncontrolled universal welfare and soon to be universal health care.



So I get less rights because of this? Yeah, that's fair. Totally fair because screw those people who turned out less lucky than me, and got sick and had to quit work. Am I right?


No you don't get less rights, you just to don't get the special rights you think you are entitled to. You are not entitled to my property to pay for your life.

Kheiron
09-23-2008, 16:41
How about give some thought to people, have some empathy, and consider that most poor people are not poor by choice.



Because I should definitely kill myself to make you feel better.

I'm sure my husband and family totally agrees with you. 100%.

You're still missing the entire point of the thread by a wide margin. It's about poor people having kids as a means of support and putting the burden of thier failed life on the rest of the population.

You have no kids, you are not a welfare, we dont fucking care!

Weeking
09-23-2008, 16:41
How about give some thought to people, have some empathy, and consider that most poor people are not poor by choice.

There aren't any poor people, just filthy rich ones and fantastically filthy rich people. Even starving people in Africa are rich fucks.

Ultimo
09-23-2008, 16:41
How about give some thought to people, have some empathy, and consider that most poor people are not poor by choice.



Because I should definitely kill myself to make you feel better.

I'm sure my husband and family totally agrees with you. 100%.


Who said anything about killing yourself? All I said was go make something of your life. Stop sitting there crying and do something.

NapalmEnema
09-23-2008, 16:42
How about give some thought to people, have some empathy, and consider that most poor people are not poor by choice.



Because I should definitely kill myself to make you feel better.

I'm sure my husband and family totally agrees with you. 100%.

Most poor people aren't poor by choice - agreed

SO WHY ARE THEY PUMPING OUT 5+ KIDS WHEN THEY HAVE NO MEANS TO SUPPORT THEM??

Thanks for proving my point. I have empathy for those that hit hard times, not those that create hard times for themselves. Boo hoo you can't feed your kids, gosh, did you have to have so many / any of them? The people I'm talking about have NO BUSINESS having kids in the first place.

Here's a hot tip honey - if you're poor RIGHT NOW - don't have 5 kids - thank me later.

Fro
09-23-2008, 16:44
I have a nice house, two reasonable cars, and I have some debt but nothing crazy.

Your point?

Why are you so pissed of about paying taxes to help some kids when your clearly not in any financial trouble yourself?

Weeking
09-23-2008, 16:44
Most poor people aren't poor by choice - agreed

SO WHY ARE THEY PUMPING OUT 5+ KIDS WHEN THEY HAVE NO MEANS TO SUPPORT THEM??

Thanks for proving my point. I have empathy for those that hit hard times, not those that create hard times for themselves. Boo hoo you can't feed your kids, gosh, did you have to have so many / any of them? The people I'm talking about have NO BUSINESS having kids in the first place.

Here's a hot tip honey - if you're poor RIGHT NOW - don't have 5 kids - thank me later.

Because they HAVE the means to support them.
If you just stopped giving them free food, they might go infertile or be self-sufficient. Also 5 kids is to little for even a 20yo girl to have.

NapalmEnema
09-23-2008, 16:45
Why are you so pissed of about paying taxes to help some kids when your clearly not in any financial trouble yourself?

Because I'm not working to support other peoples poor decisions.

Kheiron
09-23-2008, 16:47
The problem isn't unfettered breeding, its uncontrolled universal welfare and soon to be universal health care.

I wouldn't mind universal health care and such if people were a little more socially responsible. It would be nice to balance a persons gain from society by how much they give in return...or even some actual recognition.
I remember when I was in the S.E.S., we'd find lost people, go out in storms and tarp roofs, help with every natural disaster, and the tangiable compensation for our time was a discount card that gave us 5% off shit you'd never use in stores you'd rarely have access too.
Meanwhile, the 8 member jobless family living in the house you just saved from the storm gets looked after on your taxes.
It's somewhat an ineffective setup to encourage volunteering.

fanficbug
09-23-2008, 16:47
Who said anything about killing yourself? All I said was go make something of your life. Stop sitting there crying and do something.

http://fanficbug.deviantart.com/

Some would say I already have. I'm showing in a gallery right now.

That didn't make me rich though. And it didn't stop me from getting sick and not being able to work without dying. So I stopped in the hopes that I will someday get well and be able to go back to work full-time.

Or did you not read the part where I said I've been to the emergency room twice this year? My doctor told me that if I didn't stop working I would most likely die within two years.

My point is, there is a complete lack of empathy and thought for people who have extenuating circumstances here. I take offense to that. It is my CHOICE, not YOURS, how many children I have. And how about people who become poor after having kids? That is why I am posting. Though I don't even know why I'm trying, most of you will probably say exactly what you've been saying regardless, because nothing is ever good enough for some people.

Weeking
09-23-2008, 16:50
Also just reinstitute child labor and education and put them to work on computers and they aren't a burden.

The main reason it was abolished in the first place was because of harsh, manual and hazardous working conditions in mines and factories etc, not computer coding.

Ultimo
09-23-2008, 16:51
http://fanficbug.deviantart.com/

Some would say I already have. I'm showing in a gallery right now.

That didn't make me rich though. And it didn't stop me from getting sick and not being able to work without dying. So I stopped in the hopes that I will someday get well and be able to go back to work full-time.

Or did you not read the part where I said I've been to the emergency room twice this year? My doctor told me that if I didn't stop working I would most likely die within two years.

My point is, there is a complete lack of empathy and thought for people who have extenuating circumstances here. I take offense to that. It is my CHOICE, not YOURS, how many children I have. And how about people who become poor after having kids? That is why I am posting. Though I don't even know why I'm trying, most of you will probably say exactly what you've been saying regardless, because nothing is ever good enough for some people.

Yes, it is your choice. And choices have consequences. Deal with them. As far as not being able to work goes, bull shit. You are sitting here, coherent, typing on a computer. That is enough to get you a decent paying job, even without further education. I mean shit, when I first came to college I was a consolidation professional making 15 bucks an hour in a low cost of living state.

I don't know why you don't understand that you get out of life what you put into it. Choices has consequences, and when your choices affect me (via me paying for you indirectly), those choices piss me off.

Lictor
09-23-2008, 16:53
Oh and also apparently there was a plan to build some sort of space elevator and station but I don't know what happened to that,

The needed funds fed American war effort in Iraq instead. Cannot have all the goodies at once!


if I ever earn millions

Are all of us here on forumfall supposed to pay you 1 cent for each post? :rolleyes:

fanficbug
09-23-2008, 16:53
Yes, it is your choice. And choices have consequences. Deal with them. As far as not being able to work goes, bull shit. You are sitting here, coherent, typing on a computer. That is enough to get you a decent paying job, even without further education. I mean shit, when I first came to college I was a consolidation professional making 15 bucks an hour in a low cost of living state.

I don't know why you don't understand that you get out of life what you put into it. Choices has consequences, and when your choices affect me (via me paying for you indirectly), those choices piss me off.

Yes, you totally know everything about me because I'm having a good day today.

You were totally there when my doctor gave me the directive to stop working. And you know it's totally not true. Because you were there. Right?

And you're totally paying for me. Because I'm totally on welfare, even though I said I wasn't. Mmmhmm. Yeah. I believe you.

Lysandor
09-23-2008, 16:55
I've been for Population Administration for quite some time now. Uncontrolled population growth can only have one result.

Temet nosce
09-23-2008, 16:55
http://fanficbug.deviantart.com/

I completely disagree with you about you being the sole person who matters about choosing to have kids (the world is being overpopulated, and that kind of unwillingness to take responsibility contributes), that said I don't begrudge you welfare if you need it.

You're basically a textbook case of a real reason for this kind of program existing, I wish you well with your artwork. I'm gonna go stare at it some more now. I love fractals. (that link just justified this whole annoying thread)

Edit: You should go make a thread about your artwork.

Jezrith
09-23-2008, 16:57
I wouldn't mind universal health care and such if people were a little more socially responsible.


The problem is when people pay for your health care they feel as if they have a right to tell you how to live your life. When that happens in a democracy it becomes very easy to pass laws that promote tyranny via the majority. That's when you have people like the OP trying to get laws passed and they actually pass. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Kheiron
09-23-2008, 16:58
http://fanficbug.deviantart.com/

Some would say I already have. I'm showing in a gallery right now.

That didn't make me rich though. And it didn't stop me from getting sick and not being able to work without dying. So I stopped in the hopes that I will someday get well and be able to go back to work full-time.

Or did you not read the part where I said I've been to the emergency room twice this year? My doctor told me that if I didn't stop working I would most likely die within two years.

My point is, there is a complete lack of empathy and thought for people who have extenuating circumstances here. I take offense to that. It is my CHOICE, not YOURS, how many children I have. And how about people who become poor after having kids? That is why I am posting. Though I don't even know why I'm trying, most of you will probably say exactly what you've been saying regardless, because nothing is ever good enough for some people.

Pot, meet kettle. Kettle, pot....

Personally, I dont give a rats either way. It seems to me though, you have no trouble typing on the internet or indulging in exersizes of the mind. Ever though of being a secretary?, phone operator?, tech support?, journalist?, movie critic?, professional poker player?, phone sex worker?, writer?...

As for you art, it's pretty, but doesn't really contain any originality. I'm never been a fan of computer generated art either though, as I do all my stuff in pencil greyscale. I'll see if I can find some pics.

chimp
09-23-2008, 17:01
Oh and you know what the REAL solution is for Earth being overpopulated? Space

No, no its not. At our current level of technology, it costs an insane amount of money to move 1kg into orbit. Consider how much it would cost to send a full terraforming setup to mars (assuming we had the technology to actually build a dome colony, or terraform a planet).

The earths population will perhaps have doubled in 40 to 50 years, assuming no disasters. There is no way space colonies are as yet a viable means of solving overcrowding, it costs too damn much per person and we dont even have a viable technological benchmark.



not to mention there's the possibility there might be tons of new and more reliable resources out there we could use, like for instance, the sun, if we built space stations around it.

wat

Your on about a Dyson sphere / Dyson ring , whatever. A hypothetical super structure to utilize the suns energy. Again, back to the problem of getting shit into orbit, costs too much relative to the volume of equipment needed.

Space isnt going to be solving shit for us any time soon. The first major step to utilising space as a resource will be the production of something like a space elevator, or a space craft that can repeatedly enter and leave orbit at a cheap cost.

Unless Richard Branson can pull a brand new energy source out of his ass, we are probably a few years off either of those.

fanficbug
09-23-2008, 17:03
I completely disagree with you about you being the sole person who matters about choosing to have kids (the world is being overpopulated, and that kind of unwillingness to take responsibility contributes), that said I don't begrudge you welfare if you need it.

I agree that overpopulation is a problem, but this whole "certain people get to breed so much" thing really hacks me off.

That being said, I don't ever intend to go on welfare if at all possible. But I will do what it takes to get my life back, and if that means I've got to bum off my parents, well, I knew people on these forums will look down on me but hopefully my parents will be sympathetic. O_O

(Already made a thread btw: http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=70450)


As for you art, it's pretty, but doesn't really contain any originality. I'm never been a fan of computer generated art either though, as I do all my stuff in pencil greyscale. I'll see if I can find some pics.

Some like it, some don't.

I'd love to get some more feedback on what you think isn't original about it so that I can improve, but I understand if you don't feel like critiquing.


Personally, I dont give a rats either way. It seems to me though, you have no trouble typing on the internet or indulging in exersizes of the mind.

Believe it or not, staying at home all day is f*cking maddening and I try to do at least one social thing per day, so that I can have a hope of not going loopy.

I'm sorry that I'm not more convincing, but there is one person on these forums right now who knows everything about what is going on with me, the real truth of what my life is like, and that is me. I don't particularly care whether you believe me or not at this point, it doesn't change the truth. My hope was that maybe some would stop, and think "yeah, maybe not all poor people are bad."

NapalmEnema
09-23-2008, 17:05
Yes, you totally know everything about me because I'm having a good day today.

You were totally there when my doctor gave me the directive to stop working. And you know it's totally not true. Because you were there. Right?

And you're totally paying for me. Because I'm totally on welfare, even though I said I wasn't. Mmmhmm. Yeah. I believe you.

You're missing the point, not exercising logic, not using your reading comprehension skills (if you have any, at this point I am doubting that)

You're being a classic argumentative woman. I'm glad my wife isn't ignorant like you - scratch that - if she was like you I wouldn't have gone out with her / married her in the first place.

Keep on going down tangents and making it out like everyone is out to get you and you are the victim. You should have stopped your bitching about two pages ago but you keep going at it. Why? See my first couple sentences above.

Pathetic. :rolleyes:

Carl Ragadamn
09-23-2008, 17:08
http://fanficbug.deviantart.com/

Some would say I already have. I'm showing in a gallery right now.

That didn't make me rich though. And it didn't stop me from getting sick and not being able to work without dying. So I stopped in the hopes that I will someday get well and be able to go back to work full-time.

Or did you not read the part where I said I've been to the emergency room twice this year? My doctor told me that if I didn't stop working I would most likely die within two years.

My point is, there is a complete lack of empathy and thought for people who have extenuating circumstances here. I take offense to that. It is my CHOICE, not YOURS, how many children I have. And how about people who become poor after having kids? That is why I am posting. Though I don't even know why I'm trying, most of you will probably say exactly what you've been saying regardless, because nothing is ever good enough for some people.

Look I understand what it is like to have a medical problem that keeps you from striving as hard as you want to. All you can do is keep putting one foot in front of the other and move on. You are going to be fine because you desire to do better. As I said, people in poverty are not the problem, people in persistent poverty are a problem. Persistent poverty goes from generation to generation, with each set of people making the same bad choices and never digging themselves out of the cycle. You should not include yourself in the group people are deriding as the poor.

fanficbug
09-23-2008, 17:08
You're missing the point, not exercising logic, not using your reading comprehension skills (if you have any, at this point I am doubting that)

You're being a classic argumentative woman. I'm glad my wife isn't ignorant like you - scratch that - if she was like you I wouldn't have gone out with her / married her in the first place.

Keep on going down tangents and making it out like everyone is out to get you and you are the victim. You should have stopped your bitching about two pages ago but you keep going at it. Why? See my first couple sentences above.

Pathetic. :rolleyes:

Mmmmm ad-homs :)

Totally takes the place of logic!

The irony is delicious :D

NapalmEnema
09-23-2008, 17:10
Mmmmm ad-homs :)

Totally takes the place of logic!

The irony is delicious :D

Not ad-hom- calling it like I see it. You're twisting the point of this thread to suit your purposes then dismissing all arguments pointing out that you are missing the point and bending it to be another attack on you or starting up a whole new tangent.

Don't like the label?

Stop acting like a fool.

Kheiron
09-23-2008, 17:12
Some like it, some don't.

I'd love to get some more feedback on what you think isn't original about it so that I can improve, but I understand if you don't feel like critiquing.

With my superiority issue, critiquing is like candy to me...

You ever do those butterfly paintings in preschool?, stick paint on paper, fold it, then unfold it. Your pictures seem to be that.
They invoke no emotion, no reaction.
Normally, I'm OCD about symmetry, but I dont think it helps your work. Try for a bit more 'outwardly chaotic' and insert a recognizable, relatable focus point to try and draw some reaction from the viewer.
e.g. http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~cema/courses/CSE3325/images/lect1/munchScream.jpg

You can look through the thread linked in my sig for some of my more 'minimalist' work, but it's probably the most popular stuff I've ever done because they make people laugh.

Carl Ragadamn
09-23-2008, 17:16
I agree that overpopulation is a problem, but this whole "certain people get to breed so much" thing really hacks me off.

That being said, I don't ever intend to go on welfare if at all possible. But I will do what it takes to get my life back, and if that means I've got to bum off my parents, well, I knew people on these forums will look down on me but hopefully my parents will be sympathetic. O_O

(Already made a thread btw: http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=70450)



Some like it, some don't.

I'd love to get some more feedback on what you think isn't original about it so that I can improve, but I understand if you don't feel like critiquing.



Believe it or not, staying at home all day is f*cking maddening and I try to do at least one social thing per day, so that I can have a hope of not going loopy.

I'm sorry that I'm not more convincing, but there is one person on these forums right now who knows everything about what is going on with me, the real truth of what my life is like, and that is me. I don't particularly care whether you believe me or not at this point, it doesn't change the truth. My hope was that maybe some would stop, and think "yeah, maybe not all poor people are bad."

You get respect from me for staying out of the welfare system. If your situation is as bad as you say, look into charities for help, they are out there but alot of people are asking for help, so it is hit or miss. Atleast when you go to your parents they have some connection to you, welfare is holding a gun to the rest of the country and forcing them to cover your bad luck. As one person with health problems struggling to get by to another, just keep going your going to be fine once you get your feet under you (even if you dont get better, you will find a way to move forward). The first few years of being chronically ill are the hardest, but you will learn coping skills if you need them (though I do sincerely hope you get better).

Oops I just proved, I am not a total asshat. Plz dont reject me, my forumfall brethren.

Carl Ragadamn
09-23-2008, 17:20
You're twisting the point of this thread to suit your purposes then dismissing all arguments pointing out that you are missing the point and bending it to be another attack on you or starting up a whole new tangent.


One problem here, this is OT where threads dont have a purpose other than what the posters make of them. Dont fight a derail, if you want it back on track toss in a good post and rerail the thread.

Temet nosce
09-23-2008, 17:22
One problem here, this is OT where threads dont have a purpose other than what the posters make of them. Dont fight a derail, if you want it back on track toss in a good post and rerail the thread.

Yes, they do actually. The purpose is our amusement, what the Op thought was the purpose actually has nothing to do with it. It's a lesson every Op learns eventually, well assuming they survive Forumfall for that long anyways.

NapalmEnema
09-23-2008, 17:22
One problem here, this is OT where threads dont have a purpose other than what the posters make of them. Dont fight a derail, if you want it back on track toss in a good post and rerail the thread.

I did, again and again, as did others, and yet she persisted in her ridiculous assertions time and again. I fight with logic and arguments first, after that? Fair game.

Kheiron
09-23-2008, 17:23
Oops I just proved, I am not a total asshat. Plz dont reject me, my forumfall brethren.

You had your chance...

Kheiron
09-23-2008, 17:25
I did, again and again, as did others, and yet she persisted in her ridiculous assertions time and again. I fight with logic and arguments first, after that? Fair game.

When all else fails, opt for cheezeburger pics.

http://icanhascheezburger.wordpress.com/files/2008/07/funny-pictures-mom-lion-yells-at-offspring.jpg

NapalmEnema
09-23-2008, 17:26
When all else fails, opt for cheezeburger pics.

http://icanhascheezburger.wordpress.com/files/2008/07/funny-pictures-mom-lion-yells-at-offspring.jpg

<jots down notes>

Thanks!

Kheiron
09-23-2008, 17:29
<jots down notes>

Thanks!

Please, please, no need for thanks. Cash donations would be fine.

Carl Ragadamn
09-23-2008, 17:31
<jots down notes>

Thanks!

Also you can self derail the thread with a discussion about waffles, until someone responds to the original intent of the thread, and then jump back on it.

Kheiron
09-23-2008, 17:33
Also you can self derail the thread with a discussion about waffles, until someone responds to the original intent of the thread, and then jump back on it.

That's a gamble. Once you bring up waffles very few can think of anything else.

Temet nosce
09-23-2008, 17:33
Also you can self derail the thread with a discussion about waffles, until someone responds to the original intent of the thread, and then jump back on it.

Or if you're a fucking heretic about pancakes, those fucking pancake lovers piss me off. Why can't they just waffles like a real forumfaller?

Kheiron
09-23-2008, 17:36
Or if you're a fucking heretic about pancakes, those fucking pancake lovers piss me off. Why can't they just waffles like a real forumfaller?

What's the difference between a waffle and a pancake anyway?

I honestly dont think I've ever actually had a waffle.

Temet nosce
09-23-2008, 17:37
What's the difference between a waffle and a pancake anyway?

I honestly dont think I've ever actually had a waffle.

I just explained the difference heretic! REAL Forumfallers eat waffles.

(If you're being serious for some reason, waffles are made with waffle irons. They're crunchier, and...oh hell just run a search for a picture.)

Carl Ragadamn
09-23-2008, 17:42
What's the difference between a waffle and a pancake anyway?

I honestly dont think I've ever actually had a waffle.

Waffles are cooked in a waffle iron that cooks both sides at the same time. The result is a crunchy texture and pits to hold syrup (Damn the Canadians and their ability to get us all hooked on their syrup). Waffles are easier to make if you posses the waffle iron, so it is less effort for superior food.

Baralis
09-23-2008, 17:45
How about give some thought to people, have some empathy, and consider that most poor people are not poor by choice.


For most poor people with a few exceptions its not a choice to be poor but the choices they have made in life that limit them to being poor.

In America nearly any citizen can have a decent life if they have made the right choices and are not afraid to work for something more.

NapalmEnema
09-23-2008, 17:46
Waffles are so much better than pancakes it's not even funny.

In fact I think I hate anyone that likes pancakes over waffles - they are that good.

So please sign up if you like pancakes so I can spit on you.

Nani
09-23-2008, 17:53
It's not the US that is causing overpopulation on earth, nor is it China, it's in India where they breed like rabbits. Africa and a couple of other asian countries are the major contributors.

I do agree that you shouldn't have children if you can't support them.

fanficbug
09-23-2008, 18:29
You should not include yourself in the group people are deriding as the poor.

That is part of the problem.

How does one define the 'lowest common denominator'?

According to the OP, all people who get pregnant with three children but can't afford to take care of them ought to be sterilized, and are part of it. My problem with this statement is that there are SO MANY other factors that very few people here clearly have never thought about. Things like prejudice, crime, mental illness, and disability. Society is full of its problems, and the reason why there haven't been solutions yet is because there are no easy solutions, there is no easy categorization of people.

Screwing over one segment of the population is not the answer, and for those of us who are dangerously close to BEING part of that segment (or who have empathy for those who are in that segment) find it extremely distasteful that someone would treat them as second-class citizens because of one facet of their life. That is the very essence of prejudice.

It's not as if poor people aren't people. Did you know that Stephen King had two kids at the time he wrote Carrie and that he and his wife struggled financially for years before he managed to get published? Did you know that Stephen King's mother was poor before them? They'd be dangerously close to your line as well, but it's not as if they were lazy, stupid, had no ambition, etc.

Did you know that most poor people are actually quite ok and wonderful when you get to know them? (Speaking of "you" as a collective, of course.) In fact, money is only one part of a person's life.

That is what I'm posting about, is the complete and rampant prejudice against the poor that I'm seeing in this thread. I find that to be extremely on-topic for this discussion, because if prejudice goes into your decision then you are in danger of discriminating against a segment of the population based on your prejudice. In this case, I would say that it's a very discriminatory idea.



That being said . . .


You get respect from me for staying out of the welfare system. If your situation is as bad as you say, look into charities for help, they are out there but alot of people are asking for help, so it is hit or miss. Atleast when you go to your parents they have some connection to you, welfare is holding a gun to the rest of the country and forcing them to cover your bad luck. As one person with health problems struggling to get by to another, just keep going your going to be fine once you get your feet under you (even if you dont get better, you will find a way to move forward). The first few years of being chronically ill are the hardest, but you will learn coping skills if you need them (though I do sincerely hope you get better).

Thank you for being helpful. :) At this point, I am very set against going to charity. My point in posting was that poor people do not all fit a cookie-cutter "these people are ok or not ok" definition. I can handle being poor, so long as I have hope that I can begin again. :)


You ever do those butterfly paintings in preschool?, stick paint on paper, fold it, then unfold it. Your pictures seem to be that.
They invoke no emotion, no reaction.
Normally, I'm OCD about symmetry, but I dont think it helps your work. Try for a bit more 'outwardly chaotic' and insert a recognizable, relatable focus point to try and draw some reaction from the viewer.

You can look through the thread linked in my sig for some of my more 'minimalist' work, but it's probably the most popular stuff I've ever done because they make people laugh.

So, too much symmetry, not enough emotion.

I see what you mean about the symmetry, and I'll work on it (shouldn't be too hard to watch out for, now that I've noticed it). Emotion will be a bit harder. I do try very hard to put emotion into my work and think I have succeeded at least marginally so far; most likely this is a problem with execution/technique, which will hopefully get better as I progress. The problem with trying to help in this sort of matter is that it can result in the artist's progress being stunted because they learn to emulate, not to create. I want to avoid that.

I will keep your critiques in mind. Thank you, and I'll try to have a look at the stuff in your sig at some point.

. . . I think I have a waffle pic around here somewhere

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q88/fanficbug/Wofl.jpg

I'm off for now, my body temp has dropped to about 97F which is a sign for trouble.

Baralis
09-23-2008, 18:38
That is part of the problem.

How does one define the 'lowest common denominator'?

According to the OP, all people who get pregnant with three children but can't afford to take care of them ought to be sterilized, and are part of it. My problem with this statement is that there are SO MANY other factors that very few people here clearly have never thought about. Things like prejudice, crime, mental illness, and disability. Society is full of its problems, and the reason why there haven't been solutions yet is because there are no easy solutions, there is no easy categorization of people.

Thats pretty simple imo. If your a criminal, mentaly ill or disabled your automaticly sterilized. And in america prejudice will not stop a person from suceeding unless they choose to let it.




I'm off for now, my body temp has dropped to about 97F which is a sign for trouble.

Luckly I have a abnormaly low body temperature. My norm in 96.2 and I rarely hit 97 unless I have a fever.

Killuminati
09-23-2008, 18:47
Here I was thinking the overpopulation fear had died ever since Malthus's theories were proven incorrect.

Carl Ragadamn
09-23-2008, 19:00
Here I was thinking the overpopulation fear had died ever since Malthus's theories were proven incorrect.

I was unaware that facts could kill fear...

Hecubis
09-23-2008, 19:08
You know what's going to cave American? Over population by people that have no business having kids in the first place. This trend we are on now of just letting the lowest common denominator breed willy nilly is going to bite us in the ass one day and it's going to be UGLY.

You know what should happen when you walk into a hospital and you can't pay for your pregnancy? You should be jotted down on a nice little list. The second time you come in, for another kid, they refer to the list, deliver your kid, then sterilize your irresponsible ass so you can't make any more flesh turds you can't possibly afford.

I'm so sick of seeing someone with 5+ kids walking around with no visible means of supporting them. Oh that's right, I'M SUPPORTING THEM. :bang:

True story here kids, gather around the fire:

I was in college at a store, buying some ramen noodles (instant soup, about .10 cents a serving), as that's what I could swing at the time and I guess eating packing insulation is part of being a student. At any rate, in front of me was a pack of 5 kids and their mother. While their massive pile of groceries was being rung up, the lady behind the counter came upon a bag of dogfood... She politely said 'Ma'am, that's not going to be covered by your LoneStar card (wellfare card)'. So the mother, without missing a beat, turned to one of her brood and said :idea: "Hey, go put this dogfood back and go get the dog some steaks" :bang::bang::bang::bang:

Good thing I was living within my means and not being a parasite while I rung up my noodles and headed home.

I want to understand the logic that leads you to believe that the problem is that people are allowed to have as many kids as they want, and not that the government is allowed to piss away your taxdollars like a drunken sailor on shore leave.

Carl Ragadamn
09-23-2008, 19:11
I want to understand the logic that leads you to believe that the problem is that people are allowed to have as many kids as they want, and not that the government is allowed to piss away your taxdollars like a drunken sailor on shore leave.

Why have you not been made Emperor of Canada yet? I would move into the tree cities if you ran the show.

NapalmEnema
09-23-2008, 19:34
I want to understand the logic that leads you to believe that the problem is that people are allowed to have as many kids as they want, and not that the government is allowed to piss away your taxdollars like a drunken sailor on shore leave.

Valid point, it's like the chicken or the egg argument though... until we stop coddling people this will never stop, but because everyone is under the mistaken impression that 'every child is a miracle' your way of thinking would never fly, though I agree with it.

So within the boundaries of our given system of too much empathy, I am suggesting a limitation on children for those unfit to have any. I could take it a step further and have the kids sterilyzed born to unfit parents so we nip the issue in the bud but I'm sure that's too hardcore for most to contemplate as well. :ohno:

Baralis
09-23-2008, 20:02
I want to understand the logic that leads you to believe that the problem is that people are allowed to have as many kids as they want, and not that the government is allowed to piss away your taxdollars like a drunken sailor on shore leave.

We can look at it in a different light then. Lets say they the governemnt finaly does something right and stops all these social leeches. A person choses to have 8 kids that they cannot support. I see it either one of two ways:

1) The children starve to death ( just dont see people allowing this to happen)

2) They survive by generous people helping (still a burden to society)

Multiply this by millions of kids nationwide and I dont think much will change. They will still rely on others to take care of them allowing the unfit to pump out more kids.

Fro
09-23-2008, 20:36
Because I'm not working to support other peoples poor decisions.

Stop being a selfish bastard, capitilist pig.

Hecubis
09-23-2008, 20:38
Well the way I see it, the government is essentially subsidizing welfare moms by giving them exponentially more money per offspring they produce. Yes?

It's only human nature to take advantage of any opportunity that presents itself. This adaptability is what has helped our species succeed so well. It's perfectly natural for someone to milk it for all it's worth and choose to let the taxpayer foot the bill for steaks fed to a family pet, rather than spend their own money to buy dogfood.

The root cause of this situation is not that people are permitted to reproduce without interference from the state. The problem is that the state is permitted to subsidize this sort of behavior with taxpayer money with little or no accountability. In short, the state fucked up and created more problems with the authority it was given to solve other issues.

And your solution is to give the state even more authority with which to create even more problems down the road.

I just want to understand the logic that leads people to believe the solution to problems created by the state, is to reward the state with additional powers when the obvious solution is to prevent the state from interfering with the course of nature. I find it bizarre how government seems to become more powerful through failure. This phenomenon is completely opposite from the way everything else in the universe works.

Sometimes people need help. But it is much better if this help comes voluntarily from the members of their community. This sort of abuse would be much less common if there was a threat that people would just stop helping out if they were being taken advantage of and being played for fools.

BladeSLicer
09-23-2008, 20:42
I think we should keep spitting children out till we catch up with China. Kill their numerical advantage!

Shamoke
09-23-2008, 20:55
I want to go back to when poverty meant you were not a huge fatty with 3-9048309430943840939-042-24-039-0432 broken things in and around your home clogging up the society.

Barbarossa
09-23-2008, 23:00
The OP should most assuredly never breed.

EVER.

Kheiron
09-24-2008, 06:17
Well the way I see it, the government is essentially subsidizing welfare moms by giving them exponentially more money per offspring they produce. Yes?

It's only human nature to take advantage of any opportunity that presents itself. This adaptability is what has helped our species succeed so well. It's perfectly natural for someone to milk it for all it's worth and choose to let the taxpayer foot the bill for steaks fed to a family pet, rather than spend their own money to buy dogfood.

The root cause of this situation is not that people are permitted to reproduce without interference from the state. The problem is that the state is permitted to subsidize this sort of behavior with taxpayer money with little or no accountability. In short, the state fucked up and created more problems with the authority it was given to solve other issues.

And your solution is to give the state even more authority with which to create even more problems down the road.

I just want to understand the logic that leads people to believe the solution to problems created by the state, is to reward the state with additional powers when the obvious solution is to prevent the state from interfering with the course of nature. I find it bizarre how government seems to become more powerful through failure. This phenomenon is completely opposite from the way everything else in the universe works.

Sometimes people need help. But it is much better if this help comes voluntarily from the members of their community. This sort of abuse would be much less common if there was a threat that people would just stop helping out if they were being taken advantage of and being played for fools.

It's not the 'authority' of the state giving tax payer money to poor fuckers, it's the lack of power for the state to do what's right over what is popular. These people who can't hold on to a dollar still get to vote, and guess who they're going to vote for?
The guy who promises to give them money.
It's the same for every demographic and every interest group in the nation. Hippies vote for the guy who promises to spend money on saving trees and building birdhouses. Soccer mums vote for the guy promising money to pacify reality and delude thier children into fairy tale thinking. Union workers vote for the guy who promises them more money and rights in the workplace to extort small business owners.

It all ends up with people being actively forced to get down and kiss arse just to hold thier posistion.

What you need to do is make the 'right' to vote something you need to earn. Just limiting voting to people who actually pay taxes would go a long way to stopping the continuous influx of wasted money being funneled into welfare america.

NapalmEnema
09-24-2008, 06:19
It's not the 'authority' of the state giving tax payer money to poor fuckers, it's the lack of power for the state to do what's right over what is popular. These people who can't hold on to a dollar still get to vote, and guess who they're going to vote for?
The guy who promises to give them money.
It's the same for every demographic and every interest group in the nation. Hippies vote for the guy who promises to spend money on saving trees and building birdhouses. Soccer mums vote for the guy promising money to pacify reality and delude thier children into fairy tale thinking. Union workers vote for the guy who promises them more money and rights in the workplace to extort small business owners.

It all ends up with people being actively forced to get down and kiss arse just to hold thier posistion.

What you need to do is make the 'right' to vote something you need to earn. Just limiting voting to people who actually pay taxes would go a long way to stopping the continuous influx of wasted money being funneled into welfare america.


I'd take it one step further - Only people with a high enough IQ should be allowed to vote. Why we let people vote just because they are old enough is beyond me. Most of these commoners aren't fit to dig a hole to bury themselves in nevermind decide the direction of the country.

Kheiron
09-24-2008, 06:32
I'd take it one step further - Only people with a high enough IQ should be allowed to vote. Why we let people vote just because they are old enough is beyond me. Most of these commoners aren't fit to dig a hole to bury themselves in nevermind decide the direction of the country.

IQ is a bit of an iffy basis for voting rights. For starters, it's an iffy basis for intelligence on the whole, and just because you have a high IQ doesn't mean you know a thing about politics or have the countries best interests at heart.

I would prefer to take a page out of Starship troopers and make a definition between civilian and citizen. Military or community service grants you the rights that impact society, such as voting and parenting. If you can't be bothered to make a posistive effect on/for society, then you dont get the benefits.

Dhig
09-24-2008, 06:39
I'd take it one step further - Only people with a high enough IQ should be allowed to vote. Why we let people vote just because they are old enough is beyond me. Most of these commoners aren't fit to dig a hole to bury themselves in nevermind decide the direction of the country.

And have elitist people vote on things that affects the common people?
Yea great idea if you wish to boost a revolution.

Badem
09-24-2008, 09:48
No no no

you got it all wrong

What America needs to do is Fence off a HUGE CITY,IE New york so no-one can escape

Drop in random weapon caches throughout the city

Broadcast 'GANG BANG' and let them shoot the shit out of each other

Film and broadcast, If population levls get low round up gang bagners (or even suspected gangbangers) and dump them in the city, periodically drop more weapons in

HEY PRESTO, Entertainment and Population Control in one go

Eitehr that or just nuke the shit out of India and Pakistan, or maybe 'discover' a new strain of bubonic plague in China......

population control at its finest

LordTenacious
09-24-2008, 09:49
Badem, have you been watching any Kurt Russell movies lately?

Badem
09-24-2008, 10:01
hehe
Escape from New York crossed with Battle Royale ;)

I got it figured sooner or later some power mad conglomerate will 'discover' a new strain of some deadly virus that will decimate teh worlds population except ' the chosen few'

once the world population is down a few billion a cure may be found' this will serve to ease the population pressure and relieve the stress on the ecosystem and oil revenues

so therefore the most likely targets are those population that the 'western' world will not miss

christ who is gonna miss a few billions dead peopl on the Asian Sub continent?

Temet nosce
09-24-2008, 10:15
IQ is a bit of an iffy basis for voting rights. For starters, it's an iffy basis for intelligence on the whole, and just because you have a high IQ doesn't mean you know a thing about politics or have the countries best interests at heart.

I would prefer to take a page out of Starship troopers and make a definition between civilian and citizen. Military or community service grants you the rights that impact society, such as voting and parenting. If you can't be bothered to make a posistive effect on/for society, then you dont get the benefits.

While this would probably work better than our current system (hell, what wouldn't?), it's still a bad idea as there is basically no correlation between service and knowing what you're doing politically. It would be better to setup an organization whose sole purpose was to identify in any way they could Americans who were aware of the political situation and interested in improving it.

I'll agree about IQ being a bad idea to judge by also (it is NOT intelligence, seriously I get irritated when people mix the two up), however it would admittedly be better than the other idea. I'd still prefer working off of political awareness instead however, as very few Americans currently show any awareness of the political situation.

Other options include limiting it to people who are college educated (better yet but still large chance of not being politically aware), or people who have expertise in relevant areas (best option other than using politically aware people).

5%Luck
09-24-2008, 11:01
See when long time ago the 1st major entrepreneurs in the US were meat farmers. Yes I bring up the rancher> they bought up all the land and the title is still helf for completely unused lands In much of the middle of the country. At that time, Many settlers moved in from abroad and tried to settle in these lands and the owner and the government pushed them down the ladder untill they were "needy" and "dependent". The current people that Live off the government and use food stamps and such are their off spring. Ideologically(their ideals more so then genes).

I would say this unused land could easily be used by those that cannot hope to be self sufficient, to learn to be so, as the order of self preservation goes. Open country will teach anyone to provide for themselves. A form of jail if you would!

Remember 75% of all Americans live right along I-95 18% on the west coast and 7% spread across a larger area of land then both the coasts combined!

Vanno
09-24-2008, 11:07
It is indeed annoying when a fucking herd family goes through the checkout stand and buys hundreds of dollars worth of food on America's bill. it would be one thing if these people were likely going to acheive something or at least try to improve their lot, but know they are just planning on litter production for life.

If we are going to have welfare, take these families of welfare, and give it to the college students.

Jovien
09-24-2008, 12:29
Before passing control on yourselves ask first what other countries are doing?

Until the early 20th century the average world population was a constant 2-3 billion, since the mass industrialisation of the world the population has dramatically increased. The two main contributors to this are 2 little countries known as india and china, both have a population well over the billion mark and infact if combined make 1/3 of the worlds total population.

Europe including russia and other eastern european countries actually have a declining population as people are choosing to have smaller families or not to have children at all.

Considering the US has only just passed 300 million mark I honestly don't see what you are so worried about.

In 20 years time india is set to have a massive famine due to the rapid depletion of their national water table. That means that by 2050 the population of the world should stablise as countries realise that they physically can't support overly large populations anymore.

So be happy and stop worrying, unless you hit 500 million anytime soon I wouldn't get to concerned.

And has for social leeches breeding, dude you get that in EVERY country, they are called SCUM. You just can't kill them fast enough. :)

Kheiron
09-24-2008, 14:55
While this would probably work better than our current system (hell, what wouldn't?), it's still a bad idea as there is basically no correlation between service and knowing what you're doing politically. It would be better to setup an organization whose sole purpose was to identify in any way they could Americans who were aware of the political situation and interested in improving it.

I'll agree about IQ being a bad idea to judge by also (it is NOT intelligence, seriously I get irritated when people mix the two up), however it would admittedly be better than the other idea. I'd still prefer working off of political awareness instead however, as very few Americans currently show any awareness of the political situation.

Other options include limiting it to people who are college educated (better yet but still large chance of not being politically aware), or people who have expertise in relevant areas (best option other than using politically aware people).

John Stuart Mill, whom is somewhat my political mentor, proposed voting rights to college graduates. I'd agree, if the standard of education was lifted.

I'd think the citizenship idea would be fine if in also instituted an education reform. Kids would be educated in thier rights and requirements and be given to tools and desire to make informed decisions when it comes time to vote. In any case, the people improving society should be given thier dues and determining who has or hasn't the political understanding to vote properly is largely subjective. People tend to judge the intelligence of people by how much they agree them, and I feel it's best if you determine voting rights by something a little less open to opinion.

Baldr
09-24-2008, 15:00
I plan on having 4 children. Don't Like it? Tough shit.

Milo Hobgoblin
09-24-2008, 15:19
The day the government tells me I can't have children I'll go V (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V_for_Vendetta_(film)) on their asses.

If you dont have a job and cant afford them.. the government should have to tell you in the first place..

I think you completely missed the point.


We should just require a licernse to have kids. Want to get a "kid" license.. you got to have a job and not be a complete fuck up. No hardcore drug use (meth, heroin) and no recent felonies.

Baldr
09-24-2008, 15:21
If you dont have a job and cant afford them.. the government should have to tell you in the first place..

I think you completely missed the point.


We should just require a licernse to have kids. Want to get a "kid" license.. you got to have a job and not be a complete fuck up. No hardcore drug use (meth, heroin) and no recent felonies.

But that would clash with the immigration policy. If the country had it your way, it would be like something from 'Escape From L.A.'.

Justinian
09-24-2008, 15:28
You know what's going to cave American? Over population by people that have no business having kids in the first place. This trend we are on now of just letting the lowest common denominator breed willy nilly is going to bite us in the ass one day and it's going to be UGLY.

You know what should happen when you walk into a hospital and you can't pay for your pregnancy? You should be jotted down on a nice little list. The second time you come in, for another kid, they refer to the list, deliver your kid, then sterilize your irresponsible ass so you can't make any more flesh turds you can't possibly afford.

I'm so sick of seeing someone with 5+ kids walking around with no visible means of supporting them. Oh that's right, I'M SUPPORTING THEM. :bang:

True story here kids, gather around the fire:

I was in college at a store, buying some ramen noodles (instant soup, about .10 cents a serving), as that's what I could swing at the time and I guess eating packing insulation is part of being a student. At any rate, in front of me was a pack of 5 kids and their mother. While their massive pile of groceries was being rung up, the lady behind the counter came upon a bag of dogfood... She politely said 'Ma'am, that's not going to be covered by your LoneStar card (wellfare card)'. So the mother, without missing a beat, turned to one of her brood and said :idea: "Hey, go put this dogfood back and go get the dog some steaks" :bang::bang::bang::bang:

Good thing I was living within my means and not being a parasite while I rung up my noodles and headed home.

I didn't actually look at this thread until now, and I had a feeling it was going to be as incoherent and ridiculous as this.

jonyak
09-24-2008, 15:28
If you dont have a job and cant afford them.. the government should have to tell you in the first place..

I think you completely missed the point.


We should just require a licernse to have kids. Want to get a "kid" license.. you got to have a job and not be a complete fuck up. No hardcore drug use (meth, heroin) and no recent felonies.

I thought freedom was an american ideal.

NapalmEnema
09-24-2008, 15:30
I thought freedom was an american ideal.

Ideals are fine and dandy.

It's the people that abuse said ideal's that get everyone else screwed.

The housing market is a good example - if people could manage themselves and not be greedy or buy more house than they KNEW they could possibly afford, we wouldn't be in economic ruin.

Was a nice ideal that people would be honest about their ability to pay for loans, but in reality we are all screwed.

jonyak
09-24-2008, 15:32
Ideals are fine and dandy.

It's the people that abuse said ideal's that get everyone else screwed.

The housing market is a good example - if people could manage themselves and not be greedy or buy more house than they KNEW they could possibly afford, we wouldn't be in economic ruin.

Was a nice ideal that people would be honest about their ability to pay for loans, but in reality we are all screwed.

well you can't have it both ways... I am sorry you are either free or not.

NapalmEnema
09-24-2008, 15:32
I didn't actually look at this thread until now, and I had a feeling it was going to be as incoherent and ridiculous as this.

Tell me oh great one, where did I go wrong in your eyes? Was it with my eye witness account of this problem, or with my proposed solution? Heck I'm open to new ideas, what's your proposal for stemming the population glut of the lowest common denominator? Or are you just one of those 'every child is a miracle, lets all breed ourselves into the ground' kind of people?:confused:

Badem
09-24-2008, 16:13
I plan on having 4 children. Don't Like it? Tough shit.

Grilled or roasted?

i recommend BBQ sauce with it as well :lmao:

trichlor
09-24-2008, 17:49
I thought it was common knowledge...

That the rich get richer, and the poor get kids.

Quit crying OP and do something about the government that sets up those rules you don't like.

NapalmEnema
09-24-2008, 17:54
I thought it was common knowledge...

That the rich get richer, and the poor get kids.

Quit crying OP and do something about the government that sets up those rules you don't like.

I'm on the richer / stable side of things, I'm striving for a new and innovative way to put my bootheel on the neck of those beneath me.

Try and keep up k? :D

trichlor
09-24-2008, 18:05
I'm on the richer / stable side of things, I'm striving for a new and innovative way to put my bootheel on the neck of those beneath me.

Try and keep up k? :D

Sure.

It's like tag but for the well-off egomaniac.

Rustypipe
09-25-2008, 05:20
You know what's going to cave American? Over population by people that have no business having kids in the first place. This trend we are on now of just letting the lowest common denominator breed willy nilly is going to bite us in the ass one day and it's going to be UGLY.

You know what should happen when you walk into a hospital and you can't pay for your pregnancy? You should be jotted down on a nice little list. The second time you come in, for another kid, they refer to the list, deliver your kid, then sterilize your irresponsible ass so you can't make any more flesh turds you can't possibly afford.

I'm so sick of seeing someone with 5+ kids walking around with no visible means of supporting them. Oh that's right, I'M SUPPORTING THEM. :bang:

True story here kids, gather around the fire:

I was in college at a store, buying some ramen noodles (instant soup, about .10 cents a serving), as that's what I could swing at the time and I guess eating packing insulation is part of being a student. At any rate, in front of me was a pack of 5 kids and their mother. While their massive pile of groceries was being rung up, the lady behind the counter came upon a bag of dogfood... She politely said 'Ma'am, that's not going to be covered by your LoneStar card (wellfare card)'. So the mother, without missing a beat, turned to one of her brood and said :idea: "Hey, go put this dogfood back and go get the dog some steaks" :bang::bang::bang::bang:

Good thing I was living within my means and not being a parasite while I rung up my noodles and headed home.

A.) These problems are only here because of flaming liberals.
B.) I think if someone is on some kind of social assistance they should have to report in every day to a welfare station to do work to collect there cheque. If they don't show up and do 80 hours of work in 2 weeks no cheque, or they only get paid welfare wages for the days they work. Let me clarify.

When I say work I mean anything, cleaning grafeti, cutting grass, picking up garbage downtown, whatever kind of work no one else really wants to do. If you are a tax paying citizen you should be able to call up this welfare office and be like: Yeah i got to work 9-5 today could you please send someone out to cut my grass at 123 cresent ave, in which case they would send someone down to do it. No one should get a free ride, and if you are getting a free ride you should be contributing to your community / country in some fashion.

Now you may ask what will the welfare people do that have 5 spawnlings, yeah I called them spawnlings! You would setup a government run day care strictly for the spawnlings while the parents actually contribute to society to get there welfare cheque, and this daycare service is only for that purpose. This also gives more jobs in the child care industry giving more people jobs.

verlox2
09-25-2008, 05:28
What we need is another World War so we can clear the excess population, maybe a few billion of so.

.....

Then we all get plunged into a Dark Age like society and their are rebels everywhere...like the Postman! I GET TO BE KEVIN COSTNER!!!!

TubeSock
09-25-2008, 05:30
The upside of an overpopulation is you can send all the vermin of society to the army. In the end, they benefit your country by dying for it.

Hecubis
09-25-2008, 05:44
A.) These problems are only here because of flaming liberals.
B.) I think if someone is on some kind of social assistance they should have to report in every day to a welfare station to do work to collect there cheque. If they don't show up and do 80 hours of work in 2 weeks no cheque, or they only get paid welfare wages for the days they work. Let me clarify.

When I say work I mean anything, cleaning grafeti, cutting grass, picking up garbage downtown, whatever kind of work no one else really wants to do. If you are a tax paying citizen you should be able to call up this welfare office and be like: Yeah i got to work 9-5 today could you please send someone out to cut my grass at 123 cresent ave, in which case they would send someone down to do it. No one should get a free ride, and if you are getting a free ride you should be contributing to your community / country in some fashion.

Now you may ask what will the welfare people do that have 5 spawnlings, yeah I called them spawnlings! You would setup a government run day care strictly for the spawnlings while the parents actually contribute to society to get there welfare cheque, and this daycare service is only for that purpose. This also gives more jobs in the child care industry giving more people jobs.

Only a raging pinko would support public schooling. gtfo commie bastard.

Bratus
09-25-2008, 06:32
"It is unknown how common infanticide is in China, though government officials state that it is "rare". There are accounts of parents killing their female infants in remote and rural areas due to many reasons. These include families not being able to support all their children, parents not wanting to be looked down on or laughed at (women who do not give birth to a boy may be considered "bad" at birthing), and the wife wanting to prevent their husbands from marrying other women, including concubines."

You do realize in China they get secret ultrasounds to abort female babies? Also they have the 4-2-1 problem kinda like we do with social security.

You see one child grows up and works... then must support two retired parents and 4 retired grandparents. In the US it's not as bad Since its more like a 4-2-2.

It's one of the major arguments economically against abortion the US would have 50million+ in the workforce right now if abortions wern't illegal and social security wouldn't be a problem... theoretically anyway who knows :P.

So hopefully the welfare babies in your story grow up and get a job and support you and your parents in retirement since it takes more people working people than retired leeches to keep the Ponzi Scheme of social security alive.