Spirit coming to me in my dreams?

[Uzik]

So last night I was dreaming that I was making out with this chick. For me that is kinda weird, since I haven't had sex dreams since I was like 13.

In the middle of the kissing, I wake up. After a few seconds, I start to fall back to sleep. Almost immediately, I start making out with "something", but immediately wake up and see some ghost like apparition quickly back away from me and disapear.

Now, I have been known to have "night terror" type situations where I am awake and looking around, but still seeing dream things. But the fact that I rarely have sex dreams and that what I saw looked un dreamlike as well has got me a little freaked.



So should I put a ring of salt around my bed and sleep with a crucifix on?

[trichlor]

So should I put a ring of salt around my bed and sleep with a crucifix on?

No, let em do what they want.

[Nefastus]

So last night I was dreaming that I was making out with this chick. For me that is kinda weird, since I haven't had sex dreams since I was like 13.

In the middle of the kissing, I wake up. After a few seconds, I start to fall back to sleep. Almost immediately, I start making out with "something", but immediately wake up and see some ghost like apparition quickly back away from me and disapear.

Now, I have been known to have "night terror" type situations where I am awake and looking around, but still seeing dream things. But the fact that I rarely have sex dreams and that what I saw looked un dreamlike as well has got me a little freaked.



So should I put a ring of salt around my bed and sleep with a crucifix on?

Just strap a condom before you go to sleep.

[ClownFoot]

IMO take advantage of the situation and have some sweet spirit make-outs.

[palo god]

So last night I was dreaming that I was making out with this chick. For me that is kinda weird, since I haven't had sex dreams since I was like 13.

In the middle of the kissing, I wake up. After a few seconds, I start to fall back to sleep. Almost immediately, I start making out with "something", but immediately wake up and see some ghost like apparition quickly back away from me and disapear.

Now, I have been known to have "night terror" type situations where I am awake and looking around, but still seeing dream things. But the fact that I rarely have sex dreams and that what I saw looked un dreamlike as well has got me a little freaked.



So should I put a ring of salt around my bed and sleep with a crucifix on?

A hot ghost tried to have sex with you? lucky bastard.

[Gloomrender]

Are you sure that ghost wasn't a dude ghost? Like in Scary Movie 2?

[ClownFoot]

A hot ghost tried to have sex with you? lucky bastard.

He never said it was a hot ghost. For all we know it could be his grandmother.

[Tzacharu]

I had a dream last night. I had sex with Britney Spears, before she went bald. I didn't know what to make of it, it was my first sex dream in like five years.

[trichlor]

Are you sure that ghost wasn't a dude ghost? Like in Scary Movie 2?

OK then you might need some salt...

[wertyn]

So should I put a ring of salt around my a-hole and sleep with a condom on?

yes

[Ammon777]

So last night I was dreaming that I was making out with this chick. For me that is kinda weird, since I haven't had sex dreams since I was like 13.

In the middle of the kissing, I wake up. After a few seconds, I start to fall back to sleep. Almost immediately, I start making out with "something", but immediately wake up and see some ghost like apparition quickly back away from me and disapear.

Now, I have been known to have "night terror" type situations where I am awake and looking around, but still seeing dream things. But the fact that I rarely have sex dreams and that what I saw looked un dreamlike as well has got me a little freaked.

So should I put a ring of salt around my bed and sleep with a crucifix on?
Its possible. I believe in ghosts. btw wielding a crucifix doesnt work against anything except a fundamentalist christian like Palin. She is a prude anyway so it probably isnt her.

On a more serious note, I used to get "night terrors" when I would go out in early morning hours and milk cows. It always happened when I was out in the field trying to get the cows into the stawl. I was always alone obviously and this night terror feeling would come and it was freaky. I sorta enjoyed it although one time I got startled by a stupid cow that sneaked up and my heart jumped to my throat. I kicked that cow and milked it extra hard just for revenge.

It was early morning hours like 3:00 in the morning. Thats the true witching hour so its no surprise that night terror would come.

[Gloomrender]

Its possible. I believe in ghosts.

I've sat in the dark at 3 am wishing they existed.

If you want proof they don't exist, watch Ghost Hunters on sci fi, focusing on the complete lack of hard evidence. They've been to many places where thousands of people died horribly, and all they taped were explainable/obviously bullshitted footage, of nothing.

[Salo]

I really don't think a circle of salt is going to be much use....except for the possible placebo effect of believing it'll keep ghosts away and therefore not dreaming of ghosts again...

It was a dream. There's no such things as ghosts.

[Ammon777]

I've sat in the dark at 3 am wishing they existed.

If you want proof they don't exist, watch Ghost Hunters on sci fi, focusing on the complete lack of hard evidence. They've been to many places where thousands of people died horribly, and all they taped were explainable/obviously bullshitted footage, of nothing.
I've seen and talked to ghosts many times. But then I am schizophrenic so ... you know ... my opinion doesnt count according to society because i am batshit insane.

[Gloomrender]

I've seen and talked to ghosts many times. But then I am schizophrenic so ... you know ... my opinion doesnt count according to society because i am batshit insane.

2 kool fur skool

[kingpin]

there you go : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Succubus

gratz. a demon took advantage of you. according to some other info i have, if you do it with a spirit in your sleep, your sperm energy doesn't go to waste, but instead is used to create little fictional creatures like trolls or pixies, that exist in a paralel universe.

so depending on how your experiense ended, you might be the proud father of a bunch of pixies and/or trolls.

i envy you.

[Nefastus]

I've seen and talked to ghosts many times. But then I am schizophrenic so ... you know ... my opinion doesnt count according to society because i am batshit insane.

There's this crack head in the park near by who always speaks to ghosts and pigeons. He wears all black and has long hair too. Related by a chance?

[Surly]

I never understood atheists who believed in the paranormal, like ghosts.

[Rahavin]

there you go : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Succubus

gratz. a demon took advantage of you. according to some other info i have, if you do it with a spirit in your sleep, your sperm energy doesn't go to waste, but instead is used to create little fictional creatures like trolls or pixies, that exist in a paralel universe.

so depending on how your experiense ended, you might be the proud father of a bunch of pixies and/or trolls.

i envy you.

Aren't they supposed to kill people after sex?

[ClownFoot]

I never understood atheists who believed in the paranormal, like ghosts.

They aren't real atheists, duh.

[Merrin]

Wielding a crucifix against a demon while not being a Christian is one of the stupidest things anyone could do. You're liable to get bitch-slapped twice harder.

Are you Christian?

[Nefastus]

Aren't they supposed to kill people after sex?

They were making out. He woke up before she touched his weener.

[Gloomrender]

Wielding a crucifix against a demon while not being a Christian is one of the stupidest things anyone could do. You're liable to get bitch-slapped twice harder.

Are you Christian?

Sad that you actually believe in such things.

[Nefastus]

Sad that you actually believe in such things.

He watched too much Constantine.

[ZeaL-]

I never understood atheists who believed in the paranormal, like ghosts.

well cuz you never know...have you ever woekn up in the middle of the night and saw something kinda hovering over in the distance. Can yah tell me for sure that isn't a ghost? It could all be in your head but sometimes I feel like im being watched or something.

[ClownFoot]

Sad that you actually believe in such things.

I've got to agree with Merrin on this one actually. If he isn't christian but is using a crucifex for protection he should get double spirit raped.

Course, that's only if you believe in that sort of thing.

[GRCPan]

well cuz you never know...have you ever woekn up in the middle of the night and saw something kinda hovering over in the distance. Can yah tell me for sure that isn't a ghost? It could all be in your head but sometimes I feel like im being watched or something.

Maybe you are an attention whore then?

[Rahavin]

well cuz you never know...have you ever woekn up in the middle of the night and saw something kinda hovering over in the distance. Can yah tell me for sure that isn't a ghost? It could all be in your head but sometimes I feel like im being watched or something.

I've got a feeling it's all in your head.

When you wake up you are in a heightened state of arousal, your coat in the closet will look like a man watching you.

There are no such things as ghosts.

[lastpatagonian]

the only reason a cross would work for a christian and not an atheist is simple. its all in your head, the christian is convinced in the power of the cross and since whats hapenning is all in his head, he believes himself out of the delusion. the atheist thinks the cross is bs and has to rationalize himself out of the situation.

[Bverrit]

After many years I had these type of dreams on and off continuously, you are actually catching yourself between fully falling asleep and being awake.

So while you can see your room and/or area your in , a part of the dream scenery will spill over into that area your eyes are currently looking at.

I've had reoccurring dreams too where it feels like i'm being assaulted or held down by spirits, but its just my body not moving because im asleep and your brain isn't receiving the signals properly, because well, your asleep!

On the subject of dreaming, when I actually get the chance to experience them I try to enter the state of lucid dreaming because i've conditioned myself to do it over the years, its really fun.

Not all dreams can become lucid just because you want it, but I had some pretty good lucid's today :)

[Gloomrender]

I've got to agree with Merrin on this one actually. If he isn't christian but is using a crucifex for protection he should get double spirit raped.

Course, that's only if you believe in that sort of thing.

Well It's one thing to be a theist in general, and another to believe in purely superstitiously based aspects of a theist belief system. It's kind of like believing in Santa Claus imo (the superstition, not the god).

[Merrin]

There are no such things as ghosts.

This is true. But there are demons who like to disguise themselves as ghosts in order to appear cute, funny or get sympathy from susceptible humans dumb enough to believe in ghosts.

[Ammon777]

There's this crack head in the park near by who always speaks to ghosts and pigeons. He wears all black and has long hair too. Related by a chance?
I dont use drugs.

[ZeaL-]

I've got a feeling it's all in your head.

When you wake up you are in a heightened state of arousal, your coat in the closet will look like a man watching you.

There are no such things as ghosts.

Well sometimes I get extreme headaches. I even have insomnia problems some days. Usually on tuesdays because thats when I have so much to do at night so its like a habit that I don't go to bed. Sometimes I get hungry and walk to the fridge and I get a cold feeling that something is there with me. I always look behind and to my sides, but obviously nothing is there. So what if there are ghosts out there who are watching us, but we can't see them? It sounds stupid but maybe as humans we felt the presence so we call them ghosts I guess.

[Nefastus]

After many years I had these type of dreams on and off continuously, you are actually catching yourself between fully falling asleep and being awake.

So while you can see your room and/or area your in , a part of the dream scenery will spill over into that area your eyes are currently looking at.

I've had reoccurring dreams too where it feels like i'm being assaulted or held down by spirits, but its just my body not moving because im asleep and your brain isn't receiving the signals properly, because well, your asleep!

On the subject of dreaming, when I actually get the chance to experience them I try to enter the state of lucid dreaming because i've conditioned myself to do it over the years, its really fun.

Not all dreams can become lucid just because you want it, but I had some pretty good lucid's today :)

Most of my dreams nowdays are lucid dreams. It's true that you can learn how to control dreams over time.

[kingpin]

i hate when people say it's all in your head.

i never saw a ghost but if i ever see one, I CAN TELL REALITY FROM FICTION!

you remind me of these psychiatrists in some movies that try to make everyone look nuts.

"calm down, it's just in your head, here's ten more drugs for you"

if anyone ever tells me that irl, i'll kick his ass.

[Nefastus]

This is true. But there are demons who like to disguise themselves as ghosts in order to appear cute, funny or get sympathy from susceptible humans dumb enough to believe in ghosts.

Right! We shall start staking and burning beautiful women once again! Bring back the Inquisitions!
< /br>
"This woman is a devil! Her appearance and voice is too seductive for us weak human minds! KILL HER!" < /br>< /br>

[Gloomrender]

This is true. But there are demons who like to disguise themselves as ghosts in order to appear cute, funny or get sympathy from susceptible humans dumb enough to believe in ghosts.

I'm an agnostic and half-way nihilist. Why haven't any demons visited me?

I mean really, Merrin. I'm not just jabbing at you here. If anyone should be visited by demons, It's me.

[Rahavin]

Well sometimes I get extreme headaches. I even have insomnia problems some days. Usually on tuesdays because thats when I have so much to do at night so its like a habit that I don't go to bed. Sometimes I get hungry and walk to the fridge and I get a cold feeling that something is there with me. I always look behind and to my sides, but obviously nothing is there. So what if there are ghosts out there who are watching us, but we can't see them? It sounds stupid but maybe as humans we felt the presence so we call them ghosts I guess.

I have a feeling that its the fridge that is making you cold.


CASE SOLVED!

i hate when people say it's all in your head.

i never saw a ghost but if i ever see one, I CAN TELL REALITY FROM FICTION!

you remind me of these psychiatrists in some movies that try to make everyone look nuts.

"calm down, it's just in your head, here's ten more drugs for you"

if anyone ever tells me that irl, i'll kick his ass.

You haven't seen a ghost because they aren't real.

It's all in your head, tough guy.

[Uzik]

Wielding a crucifix against a demon while not being a Christian is one of the stupidest things anyone could do. You're liable to get bitch-slapped twice harder.

Are you Christian?

Why can't jews be ghostbusters? Extreme Ghostbusters had a mexican and a paraplegic, I think a son of abraham could do it just fine.

Anyways, I'm not a real practicing anything, though my faith is christian. Although I guess I could claim Jew, methodist, catholic etc. from heredity.


Don't think that would matter as long as you had faith in what you were doing.

[ZeaL-]

wow, where did my post go. Oh nevermind im messed up in the head.

[Bverrit]

i hate when people say it's all in your head.

i never saw a ghost but if i ever see one, I CAN TELL REALITY FROM FICTION!

you remind me of these psychiatrists in some movies that try to make everyone look nuts.

"calm down, it's just in your head, here's ten more drugs for you"

if anyone ever tells me that irl, i'll kick his ass.

I for one didn't condone people's thoughts on ghosts, just explained my personal feelings/thoughts :)

My theory and thoughts on ghosts are actually extra special :)

[Nefastus]

i hate when people say it's all in your head.

i never saw a ghost but if i ever see one, I CAN TELL REALITY FROM FICTION!

you remind me of these psychiatrists in some movies that try to make everyone look nuts.

"calm down, it's just in your head, here's ten more drugs for you"

if anyone ever tells me that irl, i'll kick his ass.

Ever been on LSD, psyclobin mushrooms or peyote? Especially on a proper dose of peyote, when that tree next to you LITERALLY turns into a fucking goblin and starts speaking to you, then you tell me what's real and not. I'm not talking about dream like vision but really seeing yourself speaking to a fucking green goblin creature thing and having a reasonable conversation.

[Protonix]

Sounds like Cthulhu!!

[kingpin]

I'm an agnostic and half-way nihilist. Why haven't any demons visited me?

don't worry after you die, you'll spend a whole eternity with them.

[Nefastus]

I dont use drugs.

That's what he says too, to both pigeons and me.

[kingpin]

It's all in your head, tough guy.

if i ever see a ghost i'll know it is real, to hell what everyone else thinks, smart guy.

[Gloomrender]

don't worry after you die, you'll spend a whole eternity with them.

Don't be so sure. You don't know me. My beliefs and personal morals don't necessarily conflict with Christian values (except for the crazier notions found in the old testament, etc). But ya way to demonstrate what a hateful ignorant toolbag you are.

[Ammon777]

Actually, I was pulling all your chains for the fun of it. :)

Hehe, I like researching the occult because its neat-o, kinda like fantasy fiction... but I am really an atheist with slight neo-pagan idealisms, more into environmental naturalism and appreciation of mysterious stuff. Sometimes I study the occult for fun and then like to tell people about it, pretending to be serious. :p

My "ghost" voices I have heard are really just auditory hallucinations due to schizophrenia, a brain disease. They arent real because they are created inside my brain from neurological chemical abnormalities. My brain produces them, although they certainly seem real. I am quite better now that I am on medications that stop them, as well as being in a remission stage of the illness.

I am guessing that the OP was in-between sleeping and waking state and his mind was projecting a very vivid lucid dream into waking state.

[ZeaL-]

Actually, I was pulling all your chains for the fun of it. :)

Hehe, I like researching the occult because its neat-o, kinda like fantasy fiction... but I am really an atheist with slight neo-pagan idealisms, more into environmental naturalism and appreciation of mysterious stuff. Sometimes I study the occult for fun and then like to tell people about it, pretending to be serious. :p

My "ghost" voices I have heard are really just auditory hallucinations due to schizophrenia, a brain disease. They arent real because they are created inside my brain from neurological chemical abnormalities. My brain produces them, although they certainly seem real. I am quite better now that I am on medications that stop them, as well as being in a remission stage of the illness.

I am guessing that the OP was in-between sleeping and waking state and his mind was projecting a very vivid lucid dream into waking state.

Thats gonna suck if I have something as weird as that.

[kingpin]

Ever been on LSD, psyclobin mushrooms or peyote? Especially on a proper dose of peyote, when that tree next to you LITERALLY turns into a fucking goblin and starts speaking to you, then you tell me what's real and not. I'm not talking about dream like vision but really seeing yourself speaking to a fucking green goblin creature thing and having a reasonable conversation.

lol no i haven't but i'd like to experience it :D

well if i ever use any legal illusion drug and see how much more real an illusion can be, then maybe i'll change my mind.

still i am not talking about people taking drugs here.

if i see something, I KNOW WHAT I SAW!

[Merrin]

I'm an agnostic and half-way nihilist. Why haven't any demons visited me?

That's like a dairy farmer wondering why his wife doesn't buy milk at the grocery store.

[Gloomrender]

Actually, I was pulling all your chains for the fun of it. :)

Hehe, I like researching the occult because its neat-o, kinda like fantasy fiction... but I am really an atheist with slight neo-pagan idealisms, more into environmental naturalism and appreciation of mysterious stuff. Sometimes I study the occult for fun and then like to tell people about it, pretending to be serious. :p

My "ghost" voices I have heard are really just auditory hallucinations due to schizophrenia, a brain disease. They arent real because they are created inside my brain from neurological chemical abnormalities. My brain produces them, although they certainly seem real. I am quite better now that I am on medications that stop them, as well as being in a remission stage of the illness.

I am guessing that the OP was in-between sleeping and waking state and his mind was projecting a very vivid lucid dream into waking state.

I know that you probably know this already. But you really ought not to experiment with the hallucinogenic nature of your illness. Can't be good for you. Grats on not being in a permanent asylum of some kind.

[kingpin]

Don't be so sure. You don't know me. My beliefs and personal morals don't necessarily conflict with Christian values (except for the crazier notions found in the old testament, etc). But ya way to demonstrate what a hateful ignorant toolbag you are.

was just joking :)

[Ammon777]

That's what he says too, to both pigeons and me.
lol :lmao:

I have always been leading you guys on anyway. I dont believe in any of that bullshit, which is why I am an atheist. After 15 years of experiencing hallucinations from schizophrenia, a person gets to the stage that he doesnt believe in jack shit, since my psychiatrists have proven to me that my hallucinations are not relevant with reality, they all my head. Therefore I entirely ignore them nowadys when I get them. Thats the reason why I am not in a mental institution, because I can differentiate between reality and the delusions. Many schizos have trouble doing that, and a lot dont even succeed. So I'm less sick than they are. I cope with it well enough by ignoring all of it. :D

Although I do really like joshin with people on the internetz about it. Is fun.

[cosimo84]

I thought a night terror was sort of like a super extreme nightmare where you're not really dreaming of anything, all you know is you wake up in a state of extreme terror.

I used to have all kinds of nightmares as a kid, my parents had to talk me into going to sleep, but every once in a while I wake up yelling or screaming and I have no idea what it was about.

[Ammon777]

I know that you probably know this already. But you really ought not to experiment with the hallucinogenic nature of your illness. Can't be good for you. Grats on not being in a permanent asylum of some kind.
Uhhh thanks. I do not actually PRACTICE occultism, though. I have read books about it, thats all. I dont experiment with any of it. For instance, I havent used a simple ouija board in ... like... 15 years, I think. I also avoid illegal chemicals like the plague because that stuff is FAR WORSE for my brain than anything I could possibly do.

[Ammon777]

I thought a night terror was sort of like a super extreme nightmare where you're not really dreaming of anything, all you know is you wake up in a state of extreme terror.

I used to have all kinds of nightmares as a kid, my parents had to talk me into going to sleep, but every once in a while I wake up yelling or screaming and I have no idea what it was about.
I might be wrong, but a night terror is usually when you are fully awake. You should wikipedia it for details.

[Gloomrender]

That's like a dairy farmer wondering why his wife doesn't buy milk at the grocery store.

Kind of dodging my question, Merrin. Since you're hell bent (drumroll) on thinking I'm going to hell, for whatever reason...Why not instead suppose that there is an agnostic person, who could truly go either way. And he doesn't get visited by any demons...Why wouldn't he?

[Rahavin]

Kind of dodging my question, Merrin. Since you're hell bent (drumroll) on thinking I'm going to hell, for whatever reason...Why not instead suppose that there is an agnostic person, who could truly go either way. And he doesn't get visited by any demons...Why wouldn't he?

Because agnostics are really just atheists who are too cowardly to admit they don't believe in god.

[Nefastus]

lol no i haven't but i'd like to experience it :D

well if i ever use any legal illusion drug and see how much more real an illusion can be, then maybe i'll change my mind.

still i am not talking about people taking drugs here.

if i see something, I KNOW WHAT I SAW!

Mescaline, the hallucinogen chemical in Peyote is a controlled substance in U.S. According to federal law it's legal for Native Americans for religious ceremonies. Although, some states allow the use of peyote for all, Native American or not, as long as it's used for "religious ceremonies".

The effective dose for mescaline (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mescaline) is about 300 to 500 mg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milligram) (equivalent to roughly 5 grams of dried peyote) and the effects last about 10 to 12 hours. When combined with appropriate set and setting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_and_setting), peyote is reported to trigger states of deep introspection and insight that have been described as being of a metaphysical (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphysical) or spiritual (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirituality) nature. At times, these can be accompanied by rich visual or auditory effects (see synesthesia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synesthesia)).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peyote

[Gloomrender]

Because agnostics are really just atheists who are too cowardly to admit they don't believe in god.

/troll better

[Nefastus]

Because agnostics are really just atheists who are too cowardly to admit they don't believe in god.

I'm confused now :/ I am agnostic yet I'm not afraid to admin that I believe in a superior being/entity/power, whatever you care to call it. Elaborate please?!

[Ammon777]

Because agnostics are really just atheists who are too cowardly to admit they don't believe in god.
wow :eek:

And Jews are just Christians that dont believe in Jesus !!!

Agnostics believe in god. They just choose not to care. Thats what it means.

[kingpin]

everyone is agnostic since noone really knows. it's just that theists believe and atheists don't.

nobody knows for sure and according to theists isn't supposed to.

yay onother topic turned into a theist vs atheist one.

[cosimo84]

I might be wrong, but a night terror is usually when you are fully awake. You should wikipedia it for details.

I don't trust wikipedia much.

But I remember that Giger was a good case study for night terrors, and somewhat unusual in that he would often remember what he was dreaming about

[Merrin]

Kind of dodging my question, Merrin. Since you're hell bent (drumroll) on thinking I'm going to hell, for whatever reason...Why not instead suppose that there is an agnostic person, who could truly go either way. And he doesn't get visited by any demons...Why wouldn't he?

I do believe you missed the meaning of my words. You think you have not been visited by demons while at the same time claiming you do not believe in God. Get it? Hello? They're not going to come knocking at your door, "Hi, I'm a demon and I think we should do lots of violent things to people! Roar-r-r!!"

Do you think Christians who claim to share a relation with God actually sit down in prayer and have cookies and tea with Him, visually? Hello? Think about it.

Consider God and the devil as you would radio waves. You're either tuned into Heaven or Hell in the back of your mind while going about your daily chores. And then sometimes...very rarely...a few of us actually get to watch TV.

[Ammon777]

everyone is agnostic since noone really knows. it's just that theists believe and atheists don't.

nobody knows for sure and according to theists isn't supposed to.

yay onother topic turned into a theist vs atheist one.

You lack understanding. You should do a little educational exercise and look up the definitions of atheism, theism, and agnosticism. And think about it for 30 years, then get back to me.

[Ammon777]

I don't trust wikipedia much.

But I remember that Giger was a good case study for night terrors, and somewhat unusual in that he would often remember what he was dreaming about

Difference between a night terror and a nightmare is that "night terror" is an intense fear that happens while you are awake, while "nightmare" happens when you are dreaming. "Night terrors" are wakeful experience that is when you get this really dreadful feeling and extreme fear about nothing in particular, usually happening at night. Its when you get all creeped out for no reason.

[Nefastus]

everyone is agnostic since noone really knows. it's just that theists believe and atheists don't.

nobody knows for sure and according to theists isn't supposed to.

yay onother topic turned into a theist vs atheist one.

Huh what?!! So you are telling me that those extremist Muslim suicide bombers, dillusional Christian crusaders/saviors and those silly Jews with black square things on their foreheads banging their heads against that wall in Jerusalem don't really believe in their God? So if theists aren't really sure, then why Crusades? Suicide bombers? Inquisitions? Human sacrifices? If all of that wasn't because of someone's honest belief in their God then why did it happen and continue to happen? For the lulz and giggles?

[Teutates]

So last night I was dreaming that I was making out with this chick. For me that is kinda weird, since I haven't had sex dreams since I was like 13.

In the middle of the kissing, I wake up. After a few seconds, I start to fall back to sleep. Almost immediately, I start making out with "something", but immediately wake up and see some ghost like apparition quickly back away from me and disapear.

Now, I have been known to have "night terror" type situations where I am awake and looking around, but still seeing dream things. But the fact that I rarely have sex dreams and that what I saw looked un dreamlike as well has got me a little freaked.



So should I put a ring of salt around my bed and sleep with a crucifix on?

go to the hospital and check if you have a tumor :p

[kingpin]

You lack understanding. You should do a little educational exercise and look up the definitions of atheism, theism, and agnosticism. And think about it for 30 years, then get back to me.

i just said this based on the etymology. i don't really know or care about the consepts. so i was wrong. good. next time i'll wiki it first.

[Rahavin]

/troll better

It got a few people. I'm satisfied.

[kingpin]

Huh what?!! So you are telling me that those extremist Muslim suicide bombers, dillusional Christian crusaders/saviors and those silly Jews with black square things on their foreheads banging their heads against that wall in Jerusalem don't really believe in their God? So if theists aren't really sure, then why Crusades? Suicide bombers? Inquisitions? Human sacrifices? If all of that wasn't because of someone's honest belief in their God then why did it happen and continue to happen? For the lulz and giggles?

they believe it so much that they "know" in their mind it is 100% real.

however they don't really know, as they have no physical proof.

that's what i meant. if they were in a position to know, then they could prove it to everyone else without the need of the personal belief.

[angelfang]

Night terrors usually appear when you're sleeping on your back, drifting in and out of sleep. Basically you are half awake, but your brain still thinks you're completely asleep, so you can't move/control your body. Happened to me once or twice, but i KNEW i was in that state somehow, so i tried jolting myself awake but i kept waking up falsely for a few times before i really did. Not that scary to me, and i didn't notice an evil or threatening presence in the room like many others have reported, but that might be because I'm not religious and don't believe in all that.

Some people have sworn that they saw a human-like apparition in the room, or sometimes even right above them sitting on them. Google about night terrors for more information about this strange euphorial experience.

[Merrin]

however they don't really know, as they have no physical proof.

How do you equate something spiritual with physical proof? I think you've lost the entire notion of what spirit is.

[cosimo84]

Because agnostics are really just atheists who are too cowardly to admit they don't believe in god.

For all the shit in the world, I'd really like to slap people in the face and say that there is no god, but I can't in good conscience follow ideals that don't make sense to me.

At the end of the day I just want the facts, and the only religion that modern science suggests, is Agnosticism.

[kingpin]

How do you equate something spiritual with physical proof? I think you've lost the entire notion of what spirit is.

i wasn't talking about spirits. i was just answering somebody's comment.

[Gloomrender]

I do believe you missed the meaning of my words. You think you have not been visited by demons while at the same time claiming you do not believe in God. Get it? Hello?

Technically, my form of agnosticism does not dismiss the possibility of a god existing. I don't claim to know if a god exists or not. I believe It's extremely unlikely and in that since I'm atheistic to an extent, but not fully so...because again I can't say one way or another, for sure. It's a thin thread, but one strong enough to stand on as far as logic goes. It's a definite position, of theistic neutrality, which isn't theistic or atheistic. So you really can't say I "do not believe in God", the way you mean it.

They're not going to come knocking at your door, "Hi, I'm a demon and I think we should do lots of violent things to people! Roar-r-r!!"

If you believe that, could you please perhaps clarify exactly what you meant, with this statement? :


This is true. But there are demons who like to disguise themselves as ghosts in order to appear cute, funny or get sympathy from susceptible humans dumb enough to believe in ghosts

Is that not demons visiting a person?

Consider God and the devil as you would radio waves. You're either tuned into Heaven or Hell in the back of your mind while going about your daily chores. And then sometimes...very rarely...a few of us actually get to watch TV.

So are you saying that only believers have contact with such entities?

Isn't that a dairy farmer's wife going and buying more milk for the dairy farm?

I would figure someone who isn't already "tuned in" would be a better target for such a visit...

[Nefastus]

they believe it so much that they "know" in their mind it is 100% real.

however they don't really know, as they have no physical proof.

that's what i meant. if they were in a position to know, then they could prove it to everyone else without the need of the personal belief.

If there are no men around, does a falling branch in the forest make a sound? If there's nobody to hear it, is it still real?

One's belief is their truth. A muslim suicide bomber honestly believes that God would want him to do blow himself up in his name.

I'm agnostic, I believe in the superior being or force, whatever you wish to call it, but I also accept the fact that we are so magnificently inferior and uneducated that we are unable to understand what it is, forget having some fucking human PROPHETS tell me that the shit they wrote down on a piece of paper is a direct word from the almighty power which governs the reality we live in.

[Ammon777]

I do believe you missed the meaning of my words. You think you have not been visited by demons while at the same time claiming you do not believe in God. Get it? Hello? They're not going to come knocking at your door, "Hi, I'm a demon and I think we should do lots of violent things to people! Roar-r-r!!"

Do you think Christians who claim to share a relation with God actually sit down in prayer and have cookies and tea with Him, visually? Hello? Think about it.

Consider God and the devil as you would radio waves. You're either tuned into Heaven or Hell in the back of your mind while going about your daily chores. And then sometimes...very rarely...a few of us actually get to watch TV.
Oh, please, give it a rest! You christians are just as superstitious as any person that lived back in the middle ages, any occultist (past and present), and any other wackjob on the street that talks to tree goblins. Your concept of "tuning in" into the hidden world is just the same fundamental concept as occultism and all other religions in the world, the only difference is in the details. Its all unproven and unproveable because its fake.

I am schizophrenic, and I have "tuned into" various alternate mental states all my life, including talking directly to Jesus Christ himself on many occasions when I was really sick (back when I was a devout christian)! I have overcome those delusions and recognized them for what they are... So are YOU going to now tell ME that I had, indeed, been talking to Heaven and the Lord of Hosts himself? Come on, if that is true, then what about the time when I was talking to Ahriman, the ancient Babylonian god of darkness? What about the time when I was talking to three invisible girls that were hanging out in my backyard? What about the time I was visited by hundreds of different voices in general? No, schizophrenia isnt real.

Superstitious people, theists, religionists, occultists, and many regular people alike are all delusional, wishful thinking, and misguided -- its human nature, the price of youth, ignorance due to short lives and limited experience, and the result of intensely hoping for something that is fake (like a reward in Heaven after you die, and 50 virgins, oh my); and its a shame that even people without a mental illness cant even differentiate between fable and reality. Humanity is doomed to this. Even in politics, false delusions about the opposite party is prevalent among many, many stupid people. Plenty of examples of that on youtube comments.

Even if society still thinks something, does not make it true. Entire society once thought that the world is flat. Some idiots even still think it today. Sorry the world is not flat. Society was wrong.

News for you: as a schizophrenic myself, I have a 1-up advantage over all you religionist wacko nutjobs, because -- seeing as I am not in a mental asylum (thereby proving my ability to cope with severe mental states), dont obey voices in any instance (proving that I am resilient), and pretty damn sane and functional enough in society to talk on a forum as well as play social MMOs -- appearantly I have superior ability to figure out whats real and whats fake. As a believer in religion, you dont. Just sayin. You guys still believe in a god that is fake (burden of proof is on you), which is a delusion pressured onto naive and extremely impressionable children by a delusional society. Thats brain-washing. Just sayin. :)

[Ammon777]

For all the shit in the world, I'd really like to slap people in the face and say that there is no god, but I can't in good conscience follow ideals that don't make sense to me.

At the end of the day I just want the facts, and the only religion that modern science suggests, is Agnosticism.

Actually I think modern science suggests atheist, not agnosticism. Thats why most scientists are athiests.

[Nefastus]

Actually I think modern science suggests atheist, not agnosticism. Thats why most scientists are athiests.

And here you are more and more wrong. Modern science, along with modern scientists is becoming more questioning of the spiritual and supernatural aspects of the world we live in. In many forms of science we are reaching the points of where our modern science is unable to explain or define certain phenomenons. More and more scientists are either already religious or are converting to a religion.

One of my personal theories is that the actual key to understand what in fact God or the universal governing force is, is the science itself. The more we break down and understand how the world around us works, the more factual knowledge we have of physics based reality we live in, the closer we'll be to "God". It's only logically that if there's in fact "God" and world is built on scientific truths then there certainly has to be a limit to scientific truth. That limit and boundary separating us from the divine would be the amount of scientific and mind (metaphysical) knowledge we discover to be factually true.

That's why Einstein himself, one of the greatest scientific minds of all time, said that there has to be a "God" or a superior entity/power according to his scientific conclusions.

[Gloomrender]

For the record my response to Merrin wasn't derisive like Ammon's latest post (I respect your right to opinion Ammon, but I'm trying to get serious answers from Merrin)...Do read and respond when you can, Merrin.

[Taroth]

one time I got startled by a stupid cow that sneaked up and my heart jumped to my throat. I kicked that cow and milked it extra hard just for revenge.

ROFL

[cosimo84]

Actually I think modern science suggests atheist, not agnosticism. Thats why most scientists are athiests.

It really doesn't. Then trend seems to be, the more they learn about how the universe is formed, the more it becomes apparent that you cannot disprove the existence of God.

A true agnostic is not someone who is confused; it is someone who believes that the only right path is to accept every other path as a possibility because there is no valid alternative.

[Rahavin]

For all the shit in the world, I'd really like to slap people in the face and say that there is no god, but I can't in good conscience follow ideals that don't make sense to me.

At the end of the day I just want the facts, and the only religion that modern science suggests, is Agnosticism.

It takes as much faith to be an atheist as it does to be a theist

[Drunkenork]

Ghostbusters?

[Mr.LichTwitch]

On the subject of dreaming, when I actually get the chance to experience them I try to enter the state of lucid dreaming because i've conditioned myself to do it over the years, its really fun.

Not all dreams can become lucid just because you want it, but I had some pretty good lucid's today :)

What the hell? And how do I get some?

[Temet nosce]

Lucid dreaming is fun, I haven't really managed to train myself for it but I can occasionally get it to happen. Although dream logic still holds on (in other words I don't do what I would if I had absolute control and was fully awake, as it simply doesn't occur to me).

Also, once again (for the however many hundreth time), for those who still don't know what atheists and agnostics are.

Positive atheism: Asserts God does not exist.
Negative atheism: Lacks belief in god.
Agnosticism: Inherently impossible to prove or disprove the existence of God. (takes no position about the belief or lack thereof in God)

[palo god]

Because agnostics are really just atheists who are too cowardly to admit they don't believe in god.

You're an idiot.

[Ammon777]

I apologize to Merrin for my being disagreeable. :D

You have the right to believe anything you want, I guess. Even if its dumb.

[Ammon777]

It really doesn't. Then trend seems to be, the more they learn about how the universe is formed, the more it becomes apparent that you cannot disprove the existence of God.

A true agnostic is not someone who is confused; it is someone who believes that the only right path is to accept every other path as a possibility because there is no valid alternative.
Okey so they cant disprove the existence of God, but absolutely everyone has failed to prove it, as well. IMO its an absolute waste of time to worship and dedicate your life to a god that cant be proven or disproven.

Its like worshipping the Great Vagina Goddess and believing with all your heart that She will come down from Heaven and have wild sex with you in your sleep. Its just not gonna happen! But of course lets all have faith that we all might get the Uzik experience with Her someday.

Uzik is so damn lucky. :-/

I am gonna pray tonight that I get some of Her ghostly sex, too.

[nate4449]

Okey so they cant disprove the existence of God, but absolutely everyone has failed to prove it, as well. IMO its an absolute waste of time to worship and dedicate your life to a god that cant be proven or disproven.


Have you ever heard of Pascal's Wager?

[Nefastus]

Lucid dreaming is fun, I haven't really managed to train myself for it but I can occasionally get it to happen. Although dream logic still holds on (in other words I don't do what I would if I had absolute control and was fully awake, as it simply doesn't occur to me).

Also, once again (for the however many hundreth time), for those who still don't know what atheists and agnostics are.

Positive atheism: Asserts God does not exist.
Negative atheism: Lacks belief in god.
Agnosticism: Inherently impossible to prove or disprove the existence of God. (takes no position about the belief or lack thereof in God)

Agnosticism does not necessarily means that one believes it's inherently impossible to prove or disprove the existence of God. Agnostic may also believe that "God" may be proven through alternative ways, such as science, yet is always aware of the possibility that God's existence may not be ever proven.

Agnostic may also take a position of belief in God, simply not from theists' point of view, which opposed position would simply be atheism. What separates a theist from an agnostic is the concept of connection and understanding of the so called "God". Agnostic may also simply not care, but that's not what agnosticism is all about.

[Merrin]

If you believe that, could you please perhaps clarify exactly what you meant, with this statement?

You seemed to originally imply that you were a likely candidate for a visit from a demon. My response was meant to imply that you have been visited in ways you do not understand, as all human beings are since we all live within the devil's radio range. You not believing completely in God is exactly one of the goals a demon would seek to accomplish in your life. So, is a demon going to appear and argue the "logic" of evolution to you, thereby proving the existence of God by its very presence, or is a demon merely going to poke your conscience over the years with doubt and life goals that put more importance in things other than a relation with God?

Demons manifesting as succubi, ghosts, poltergeists, aliens or spirits of dead people are merely cheap tricks they pull in order to gain a more oppressive presence in someone's life. Not being caught up in such confrontational experiences does not mean humans live outside a demon's realm of influence.


Is that not demons visiting a person?

Yah. Was there a point to be made here besides the fact I don't buy into the ghost and succubus bullshit?

So are you saying that only believers have contact with such entities?

No. I think if you can grasp my response to your above quote you can understand what I'm saying. Don't expect God or the devil to speak with you in ways that YOU understand or desire. They can be involved in your life with acts of love, fear, hatred, comfort, greed or with something you read or see on TV. Their involvement can more often than not come through their servants—other human beings—that you encounter over your lifetime.

I would figure someone who isn't already "tuned in" would be a better target for such a visit...

That's the basis of your initial point—I understand it. My response is that you're wrong, because neither God nor the devil has any benefit whatsoever in having you believing in them through factual experiences that can be documented beyond all reasonable doubt. Physical proof is a human necessity, and if we had proof of one we would have proof of the other. Neither of them wants that because, A) proof of the devil would prove God, and B) proof of God destroys the very foundation of faith and hope that Jesus gave to the world through his crucifixion and resurrection from the dead.

[Nefastus]

I am gonna pray tonight that I get some of Her ghostly sex, too.

What do atheists pray to?

[Merrin]

I apologize to Merrin for my being disagreeable. :D

You have the right to believe anything you want, I guess. Even if its dumb.

And I certainly respect your right to be wrong.

[Teutates]

I am gonna pray tonight that I get some of Her ghostly sex, too.

That would be so hawt.

[trichlor]

B) proof of God destroys the very foundation of faith and hope that Jesus gave to the world through his crucifixion and resurrection from the dead.

Could you explain this a lot more please. I can't quite get it. I'm not saying there aren't any reasons for a deity to hide, there are. I just can't quite get what your point is here.

[Septus]

Have you ever heard of Pascal's Wager?

Pascal's Wager is flawed.

In each of the numerous faiths, THEIR faith is the only one that will lead you to heaven.

Pascal said the options are either believe in God (you either go to heaven or rot in the ground) or don't believe in God (go to hell or rot in the ground). Given that, having faith seems like the obvious choice.

*BUT* because there are at least 5 religions, each claiming their customs, doctrines, etc, are the ones that lead to heaven (and they don't even agree on what heaven is), even if you believe in God, you only have a 1 out of 5 chance of getting to heaven.

So is it worth a 1 in 6 chance of you being right, in exchange for living a lie and wasting years of your life? On top of that, you're assuming God wouldn't forgive you so long as you were a good person who just made the best decision possible with the information present (ie. all your bullshit doctrines could be flat out wrong whether there is a God or not).

[Xtra-Medium]

no fair, i wanna fuck a ghost. lol who has dreams where you make out? ive only had that once i always skip the foreplay it seems

[Temet nosce]

Agnosticism does not necessarily means that one believes it's inherently impossible to prove or disprove the existence of God. Agnostic may also believe that "God" may be proven through alternative ways, such as science, yet is always aware of the possibility that God's existence may not be ever proven.

Agnostic may also take a position of belief in God, simply not from theists' point of view, which opposed position would simply be atheism. What separates a theist from an agnostic is the concept of connection and understanding of the so called "God". Agnostic may also simply not care, but that's not what agnosticism is all about.

You're right that I oversimplified agnosticism (there are actually several subcategories of it, and I only represented hard agnosticism) but frankly I'm basically at a point where I have a reflex response to people who misuse the word. I post a simplistic explanation and leave it at that hoping that I won't have to post it again at least for that particular thread.

That said you appear to be implying that agnosticism is actually a third option in the theist/atheist thing, it's not.

[Saturday Saint]

I CAN TELL REALITY FROM FICTION!

you remind me of these psychiatrists in some movies

Ever heard of hypnagogic hallucinations?

[nate4449]

So is it worth a 1 in 6 chance of you being right, in exchange for living a lie and wasting years of your life? On top of that, you're assuming God wouldn't forgive you so long as you were a good person who just made the best decision possible with the information present (ie. all your bullshit doctrines could be flat out wrong whether there is a God or not).

I suppose it depends on your definition of "Waste".

That aside, isn't a 1/6 chance better than a 0% chance?

[Merrin]

Could you explain this a lot more please. I can't quite get it. I'm not saying there aren't any reasons for a deity to hide, there are. I just can't quite get what your point is here.

My point applies to what Gloomrender seems to be suggesting: that unbelievers are prime targets for upfront and personal visits from angels or demons in order to sway that person's belief in God or the devil.

I say it's a wrong conclusion because physical proof of the devil exposes a human to physical proof of God (which the devil would not want). Hence it's to the devil's advantage to sway humans through other mediums that we would never perceive or suspect.

If God proved Himself to humans today in ways He and angels revealed themselves in the Bible (through dreams or physical manifestation), it would obliterate the miracle of faith that many Christians experience in our world today. Does He want an army of faithful Believers, or an army of faithless drones who need a walking stick to find their way in the world? What's of more value in the long run, spiritually?

[nate4449]

If God proved Himself to humans today in ways He and angels revealed themselves in the Bible (through dreams or physical manifestation), it would obliterate the miracle of faith that many Christians experience in our world today. Does He want an army of faithful Believers, or an army of faithless drones who need a walking stick to find their way in the world? What's of more value in the long run, spiritually?


Just to be an asshat, I suppose one could ask how God gauges spiritual value.

Still being an asshat, one could wonder why God has interest in our faith in the first place.

[Ammon777]

What do atheists pray to?

To vagina, of course. What else is there worthy?

Also, to be another asshat like the person before me (nice asshattery btw), I will ask:

Does God have hawt sex with his female children? If you say no, then why did he fuck Mary and birth Jesus? God had sex with Mary, face it. He's a hypocrite cuz you arent supposed to have sex if ur not married. Thats like... adultery or fornication or whatever. GOD JUST GOT PWNED.

Jesus is son of god, how else can that happen besides vaginal penetration?

Oh wait, it was magic. Poof! God's sperm inside Mary's vagina. Thats ... like ... divine artificial insemination!

[nate4449]

To vagina, of course. What else is there worthy?

Even female Atheists?

[Ammon777]

Even female Atheists?
Sure! All females are really lesbians deep down inside. :)

[Merrin]

Just to be an asshat, I suppose one could ask how God gauges spiritual value.

Still being an asshat, one could wonder why God has interest in our faith in the first place.

You'll have to try harder if you want to be an asshat.

One could say God gauges spiritual value in how much He gives freely to those who have faith in Him.

One could also wonder and conclude that God only has an interest in a limited number of faithful as this stage in the history of the universe, for if He was in a war for believers, as many Christians believe, there's more than enough proof to conclude He has always been on the loosing side since the fall of Adam.

[Pcheez]

How did this devolve from awesome ghosts into silly talk about god.

I've had my share of scarring nightmares as a kid, waking up shaking and horrified for 2 weeks straight from the exact same nightmare.

Musth ave been THEJESUS warning me about my future ways !

Lolz, he failed, epicly.

[nate4449]

You'll have to try harder if you want to be an asshat.

One could say God gauges spiritual value in how much He gives freely to those who have faith in Him.

One could also wonder and conclude that God only has an interest in a limited number of faithful as this stage in the history of the universe, for if He was in a war for believers, as many Christians believe, there's more than enough proof to conclude He has always been on the loosing side since the fall of Adam.

Indeed, I do need more asshat experience.

Do you know anyone who can teach me?

[Ammon777]

Honestly I havent had a real nightmare that actually scared me for over 25 years (I am 34).

Had them as a kid, though. I guess thats normal.

Who else had bad bloody noses when they were a kid? I woke up a lot with my pillow freaken soaked in blood. It happened quite a lot when I was around ages 5-7.

Indeed, I do need more asshat experience.

Do you know anyone who can teach me?

I can!

[Pcheez]

Who else had bad bloody noses when they were a kid? I woke up a lot with my pillow freaken soaked in blood. It happened quite a lot when I was around ages 5-7.



Yeah i woke up with bloody noses everyday, could have been from all the caged bearfighting my parents made me do.

[Titus Ultor]

I suppose it depends on your definition of "Waste".

That aside, isn't a 1/6 chance better than a 0% chance?

The chance is far smaller than 1/6. Believing in any one sect of any one religion forces you to make certain doctrinal and spiritual choices which narrow your odds even further. Pascal's Wager made much more sense in a non-pluralistic world when other faiths were looked on as laughable and pagan rather than as serious theological attempts on par with Christianity's few sects.

You also have to consider whether or not God isn't deist, or whether he'd even value the devotion of someone who was worshiping him in order to play his odds.

[Septus]

I suppose it depends on your definition of "Waste".

That aside, isn't a 1/6 chance better than a 0% chance?

My definition of waste is that you'd have spent a lot of time doing something that was worthless. To be blunt, it would be as worthless as an asylum patient who has spent years droning on about the magic gnome that steals his underwear; I think we can all agree he's wasted his time.

As per the second part of your post, I didn't mean to be literal; I was just speaking in terms of Pascal's Wager (where he posits there is some measurable advantage to believing in God).

The truth is, even that "1/6 vs. 0/6" chance is complete baloney. What if God lets you in if you've been a good person, regardless of faith? I mean, what kind of fucked up God intentionally hides himself from you and then pops out and goes "haha you didn't believe I really existed, I'm gonna skull fuck you for eternity now."

Basically, the rules aren't even clearly defined, nor are they consistent across (or within) various societies. So the idea that you receive some tangible gain from believing in God is bullshit.

[Ammon777]

Unless you collect tithing. Nothin wrong with a bit of money coming in from the faithful all in the name of God, halleluja amen! Line my pocketbooks plz! In the Name of the Lord, give me ur moneyz!

[Merrin]

I can!

Protonix would do a better job than you.


Night Terrors vs Nightmares

Night terrors are distinct from nightmares in several key ways. First, the subject is not fully awake when roused, and even when efforts are made to awaken the sleeper, he/she may continue to experience the night terror for ten to twenty minutes. Unlike nightmares, which occur during REM sleep, night terrors occur during slow-wave sleep, the deepest level of NREM sleep. Even if awakened, the subject often cannot remember the episode except for a sense of panic, while nightmares usually can be easily recalled.

Unlike nightmares, which are frequently dreams of a frightening nature, night terrors are not recalled dreams. Usually there is no situation or event (scary or otherwise) that is dreamed, but rather the emotion of fear itself is felt. Often, this is coupled with tension and apprehension without any distinct sounds or visual imagery, although sometimes a vague object of fear is identified by the sufferer. These emotions, generally without a focusing event or scenario, increase emotions in a cumulative effect. The lack of a dream itself leaves those awakened from a night terror in a state of disorientation much more severe than that caused by a normal nightmare. This can include a short period of amnesia during which the subjects may be unable to recall their names, locations, ages, or any other identifying features of themselves.

I stopped having nightmares (which usually involve exorcising demons and haunted houses) when I was given more faith in God.

After reading wiki's description of a night terror, I can only recall an identical one that I had three nights in a row about 15 years ago. The "common emotion of fear itself" was present when I awoke (I knew I was really still asleep, however), lying flat on my back in bed with sunlight pouring into the bedroom (even though I knew it was still night time). While I never saw any figure, demonic or otherwise, I could feel the presence at the foot of my bed, and the fear was that if I dared move to pull the sheets closer or even twitch my nose, whatever was there would realize I was "awake" and would attack me for the kill. The terrors would last for one or two minutes before I fell into another sleep mode.

The thing that troubles me most is that I can't think of any stress or tiring ordeal I was going through at the time. No drugs, I didn't have a TV to see scary movies nor was I reading any books at the time. They're simply inexplicable at this stage.

[nate4449]

I can!

Whoo!

Well then.....Where do we start?

[nate4449]

My definition of waste is that you'd have spent a lot of time doing something that was worthless. To be blunt, it would be as worthless as an asylum patient who has spent years droning on about the magic gnome that steals his underwear; I think we can all agree he's wasted his time.

Worthless to who? To your peers? To yourself? To "God"?

The asylum patient is only worthless from our perspective! In his mind, he may be rather content with his ongoing investigations.

[nate4449]

[QUOTE=Septus;1718084] What if God lets you in if you've been a good person, regardless of faith? I mean, what kind of fucked up God intentionally hides himself from you and then pops out and goes "haha you didn't believe I really existed, I'm gonna skull fuck you for eternity now." [QUOTE] wtf broken quotes

An awesome god!

I mean really, what would you do if you were a god?

[Septus]

Worthless to who? To your peers? To yourself? To "God"?

The asylum patient is only worthless from our perspective! In his mind, he may be rather content with his ongoing investigations.

Obviously he doesn't think his time was wasted while he's stuck in his psychosis (just as a religious believer would not think his time was wasted until after finding out God didn't exist).

But say we put the patient on medication, and he realizes there really were no underwear gnomes... He will undoubtedly see that all the rituals he had developed (like tying string to his drawer to catch the gnomes in the act), the time he spent thinking about the gnomes, etc, were a blatant waste.

Similar to a religious person who would realize that he could have spent his finite time in far more satisfying ways than wasting gas to go to church, listening to the same proverbs over and over again, talking to an imaginary friend before bed, wishing for things to happen instead of making them happen, or using God as a way to simplify the world around you (so you can have the peace of "knowing" without learning how shit actually works).

[cosimo84]

It takes as much faith to be an atheist as it does to be a theist

I agree.

and agnostic is a lack of faith.

[Madrandomize]

Consider it as surprice sex with a gay trucker dressed as a ghost.

At least you werent fully awake as clownfoot was on the chinese restaurant.

[Dazarthas]

I hate to say it, but...

http://www.myspacefrog.com/img/1514.jpg

[Lioness]

I suppose all you can do is hope that rape-from-beyond-the-grave lady was

1. in fact, a lady.

and 2. She comes back.

[Madrandomize]

I hate to say it, but...

http://www.myspacefrog.com/img/1514.jpg

Omg i know from now that i can't sleep at night

[Razel]

So last night I was dreaming that I was making out with this chick. For me that is kinda weird, since I haven't had sex dreams since I was like 13.

In the middle of the kissing, I wake up. After a few seconds, I start to fall back to sleep. Almost immediately, I start making out with "something", but immediately wake up and see some ghost like apparition quickly back away from me and disapear.

Now, I have been known to have "night terror" type situations where I am awake and looking around, but still seeing dream things. But the fact that I rarely have sex dreams and that what I saw looked un dreamlike as well has got me a little freaked.



So should I put a ring of salt around my bed and sleep with a crucifix on?

its very possible you seen a spirit altho its questionable if it had anything to do with the 'sex dream'. Spirits are nothing to be afraid of perse, you can simply push them away if you wish. It does say something about your spirital maturity tho. If you werent at least somewhat spiritually mature you would have never seen it.

[Ankh]

I didn't realise we had so many pussies here on off-topic.

Take your new-age hippie crap elsewhere, no need to infect forumfall.

[Atnas]

I think the girl you kissed actually symbolizes Ron Paul, and that the odds of him ever winning an election are slim.

[Agge]

blabla

Wait wait wait, you belive in ghosts!? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

:lmao:

:)

:D

:lmao:

Alright, I'm gonna be ignoring somone alot more now.

[Atnas]

What has Somone ever done to you?

[Agge]

What has Somone ever done to you?

You and your borkiness.

[Suitepee]

You used any cursed items lately? :lmao:

[Scully]

I CAN TELL REALITY FROM FICTION

You've never claimed to see anything supernatural? You don't believe in god? If so, then maybe you can.

[BlackVolgan]

not many people can say that they've had sex with a ghost. Maybe put on some soft romantic music next time when you go to sleep and try not to scare her off.

[Lethn]

I once had a weirdly realistic dream where I was making out with a hot girl once but nothing like a ghost or anything it was just a hot girl lmao. I don't remember my dreams usually but the realistic ones seriously creep me out, there have been times where I dream I'm fighting or I'm being attacked and when I get stabbed or whatever my muscles jerk out in response RL and wake me up fucking creepy.

[Stratos360]

Night terrors usually appear when you're sleeping on your back, drifting in and out of sleep. Basically you are half awake, but your brain still thinks you're completely asleep, so you can't move/control your body. Happened to me once or twice, but i KNEW i was in that state somehow, so i tried jolting myself awake but i kept waking up falsely for a few times before i really did. Not that scary to me, and i didn't notice an evil or threatening presence in the room like many others have reported, but that might be because I'm not religious and don't believe in all that.

Some people have sworn that they saw a human-like apparition in the room, or sometimes even right above them sitting on them. Google about night terrors for more information about this strange euphorial experience.

had once i had a terrible nightmare wanted it to stop, so i forced myself to get awake try'd to open my eyes after minute it worked, kind of cool :P

i always know in a dream that it is a dream, for the last year i dont have dreams anymore :(

[Salo]

I've got a feeling it's all in your head.

When you wake up you are in a heightened state of arousal, your coat in the closet will look like a man watching you.

There are no such things as ghosts.

Key words there being 'heightened state.'

That feeling of being watched is more than likely your subconscious brain rationalising a feeling of unease: if you are uneasy then there must be something to be uneasy about right?

[Tomigutt]

Nothing unnatural at all about this..
I have sex with imaginary women all the time as well.. ^^

[Parabola]

So last night I was dreaming that I was making out with this chick. For me that is kinda weird, since I haven't had sex dreams since I was like 13.

In the middle of the kissing, I wake up. After a few seconds, I start to fall back to sleep. Almost immediately, I start making out with "something", but immediately wake up and see some ghost like apparition quickly back away from me and disapear.

Now, I have been known to have "night terror" type situations where I am awake and looking around, but still seeing dream things. But the fact that I rarely have sex dreams and that what I saw looked un dreamlike as well has got me a little freaked.



So should I put a ring of salt around my bed and sleep with a crucifix on?

Dreaming is caused by the releasing of Dimethlytryptamine during REM sleep. DMT is the most powerful hallucinogen on Earth. Every night for 8 hours we all trip on DMT. The "dreams" we remember are only the times when the DMT is ebbing from our system.

[Spinewire]

So last night I was dreaming that I was making out with this chick. For me that is kinda weird, since I haven't had sex dreams since I was like 13.

In the middle of the kissing, I wake up. After a few seconds, I start to fall back to sleep. Almost immediately, I start making out with "something", but immediately wake up and see some ghost like apparition quickly back away from me and disapear.

Now, I have been known to have "night terror" type situations where I am awake and looking around, but still seeing dream things. But the fact that I rarely have sex dreams and that what I saw looked un dreamlike as well has got me a little freaked.



So should I put a ring of salt around my bed and sleep with a crucifix on?

Learn to control the fear, before you go to bed look in the mirror and say this 10 times.

"i'm afraid of no ghost"

[Tireth]

So last night I was dreaming that I was making out with this chick. For me that is kinda weird, since I haven't had sex dreams since I was like 13.

In the middle of the kissing, I wake up. After a few seconds, I start to fall back to sleep. Almost immediately, I start making out with "something", but immediately wake up and see some ghost like apparition quickly back away from me and disapear.

Now, I have been known to have "night terror" type situations where I am awake and looking around, but still seeing dream things. But the fact that I rarely have sex dreams and that what I saw looked un dreamlike as well has got me a little freaked.



So should I put a ring of salt around my bed and sleep with a crucifix on?

I think we need more information.

-What did this possible entity look/feel/sound like?
-Did you feel drained or have pains after the event or the next day?
-Did any strange or abnormal(for you) sensations persist after the event? hours/days after even?
-Involved in any occult/mystic/other rituals etc in the short term past?
-You say you were freaked, any other vibes or overtones you felt from this entity?
-Any recent traumatic experience?
-Where you fully conscious at the time of this happening?

I'm trying to figure out was this just a "night terror" attack and a lack of full consciousness or it is something else. It certianly wouldn't be the weirdest experience I heard of, being spirits or otherwise. I endured something like this myself a few months back, a spirit, but attributted to other things I'd rather not get into right now. The fact the you had a sex dream, the first one in many years is interesting, there is usually some ulterior reasons for this, maybe disregarding night terrors.

Don't break out the salt and cross yet! lol :)

[Gloomrender]

You seemed to originally imply that you were a likely candidate for a visit from a demon. My response was meant to imply that you have been visited in ways you do not understand, as all human beings are since we all live within the devil's radio range. You not believing completely in God is exactly one of the goals a demon would seek to accomplish in your life.

Well, for starters, to reiterate, I am theistically 100% neutral, despite whatever I think is likely or unlikely. That, the latter, takes backstage to what I know or don't know. And merely because I don't have knowledge to know if god exists or what god is exactly, doesn't establish that I don't fully believe in god. I don't have a basis to "not completely believe in god". Incidentally, I don't think you have a basis either. Your basis is your faith, which isn't the same as your knowledge, that you could hand out to folks like me in the form of some kind of evidence. Since I don't have a knowledge base to determine if god exists or not, and don't take a belief that he/it does not exist, I fail to comprehend how this is any kind of 'victory' for a hypothetical demon, who's goal is somehow nudging me towards disbelief. My understanding would be that such a demon has failed categorically in that pursuit given my adopted religious understanding which is theistically nuetral.


So, is a demon going to appear and argue the "logic" of evolution to you, thereby proving the existence of God by its very presence, or is a demon merely going to poke your conscience over the years with doubt and life goals that put more importance in things other than a relation with God?


What if a person was an evolutionist and still believed in god? Do they go to hell? If I'm an evolutionist and don't don't believe in god, I don't get why I should go to hell either, for not claiming to believe in, disbelieve, or comprehend the nature of god.

As for the demons...Would you please tell me? I don't know anything about demons. Are demons not allowed to appear in person? Does satan's demon equivalent of a company's quality assurance team prohibit in-person visits to agnostics?


Demons manifesting as succubi, ghosts, poltergeists, aliens or spirits of dead people are merely cheap tricks they pull in order to gain a more oppressive presence in someone's life. Not being caught up in such confrontational experiences does not mean humans live outside a demon's realm of influence.

So wouldn't it be a good idea for a demon to appear to an agnostic in any one of those forms? Why aren't all agnostics visited by demons in such forms, if it is so beneficial to do so as you've asserted? I personally don't believe in ghosts, aliens, or spirits. But I would if there was evidence, or if I personally encountered such things. And any 1 of those things would push my "likelihood" thinking further away from god, because of the scientific implications about existence and reality itself associated with them.

Yah. Was there a point to be made here besides the fact I don't buy into the ghost and succubus bullshit?

Before that quote, I quoted you saying "They're not going to come knocking at your door". And then immediately after quoted you saying they would visit in the form of a ghost, which would seem contradictory, if only before you presented the whole idea of "radio waves and watching TV" (side question here, but aren't succubi demons? /shrug).

No. I think if you can grasp my response to your above quote you can understand what I'm saying. Don't expect God or the devil to speak with you in ways that YOU understand or desire. They can be involved in your life with acts of love, fear, hatred, comfort, greed or with something you read or see on TV. Their involvement can more often than not come through their servants—other human beings—that you encounter over your lifetime.

I understand your concept in full now. However I still see what would seem to be large functional holes in it.

For one example, with this quote, you say "Don't expect God or the devil to speak with you in ways that YOU understand or desire. They can be involved in your life with acts of love, fear, hatred, comfort, greed or with something you read or see on TV."

That of course encompasses your statement that demons could appear as ghosts, spirits, or aliens. And yet they don't seem to with anyone. And feasibly it would be particularly effective, with myself. I'd believe in any of those long before believing in your/any other god. And right now, I staunchly do NOT believe in any of the three. By this reasoning, I ought to have been visited by such a demon already earlier in my life, or I should be in the future, as, also in your reasoning, it would push me towards satan.

As for, "Their involvement can more often than not come through their servants—other human beings—that you encounter over your lifetime". That's just plain completely subjective...any visit with anyone of any nature could be characterized by people like you as being an "agent", for heaven or hell...for any reasoning you come up with. I should say, this whole thing is entirely subjective, and that's why I can't commit myself to it.

That's the basis of your initial point—I understand it. My response is that you're wrong, because neither God nor the devil has any benefit whatsoever in having you believing in them through factual experiences that can be documented beyond all reasonable doubt.

Well, I've demonstrated that such a person could be a better target. So, logically, even rationally, this statement is proven incorrect, as a responding answer to my statement. That's just how it is, no offense and all...

If you're still with me, and I do hope you are despite my last statement, I will finish this up...

Physical proof is a human necessity, and if we had proof of one we would have proof of the other. Neither of them wants that because, A) proof of the devil would prove God, and B) proof of God destroys the very foundation of faith and hope that Jesus gave to the world through his crucifixion and resurrection from the dead.

Again, the subjectivity shows.

Even more importantly though...and I'll have to digress from the rest of the discussion to make my point, as you've gone into new territory here...

Reason "B)" deafeningly screams of something made up, prescriptively, for the exact purpose, of explaining exactly why there is no proof of this belief system to be found or presented to anyone. We have to remember that Christianity was built upon the foundation of Judaism and the old testament. The writers of Christianity, who even you have to acknowledge existed, were trying to improve upon it. And what better way than to explain the monumental question that is sure to, and that they knew from experience with the last religion, WOULD arise; that is, "Why does God not show me he exists in some way?" "Give me a sign o' God"...And the response is this idea of Jesus and "faith and hope"...which, what would you guess, are 2 of the 3 pillars of the religion, as well (all three being Faith, Hope, and Love). It all seems way too coincidental not to be true given human nature.

If this probability isn't enough for someone to have doubts about the belief system, then the concept itself ought to suffice, imo. This need to 'test your faith' is wholly arbitrary. Why would a loving god require it? Why play such cruel games? And send you to hell, for ETERNITY, if you failed them? A loving god and eternal damnation don't mix in my head. I honestly don't understand how they mix in yours...even though it's still all, perhaps horribly, possible. I think I could safely conclude that god couldn't be perfect, to be that way. And I hope that if a god does exist, that my probable explanation is right, and that he isn't so vicious and unforgiving...I have to say with this in mind I'm not a Jesus fan, for now, because his very existence in the way he's described would mean god indeed is needlessly and endlessly vicious and unforgiving (unless of course hope, faith, and tests which send people to hell forever, are all bullshit, in that case, I don't mind Jesus).

I bet now you really think I'm going to hell, eh? Well, if you think that's true, It's no thanks to this discussion with you! Think about that.

[Gloomrender]

Honestly I havent had a real nightmare that actually scared me for over 25 years (I am 34).

Had them as a kid, though. I guess thats normal.

Who else had bad bloody noses when they were a kid? I woke up a lot with my pillow freaken soaked in blood. It happened quite a lot when I was around ages 5-7.



I can!

Wierd. I had that till age 9 or 10.

[Lictor]

I've seen and talked to ghosts many times. But then I am schizophrenic so ... you know ... my opinion doesnt count according to society because i am batshit insane.

What if you're not. What if all of us are blind and you see it all real (sometimes). You have just conformed to popular paradigm, then.

Most of my dreams nowdays are lucid dreams. It's true that you can learn how to control dreams over time.

Lucid dreaming, something I have to and want to learn myself. Care to post some good, tried links about this topic and how to learn it?

[emasame]

They aren't real atheists, duh.

wait spirits=god?
i think not. they maybe related in some way but theyre by no means the same thing.