Hurricane Irony

[Airius Droc]

Besides feeling bad for the people caught in the path of Hurricane Ike, I couldn't help but chuckle at the Category 3 Irony that flooded the very Congressional District of Ron Paul.

How many federal funds do you think Galveston will receive?

I've looked over the news headlines and I haven't seen a quote from Ron Paul saying that he's turning them down so that local community officials can rebuild the sea wall.

But perhaps I don't understand the "revolution." You'd think that this would be a perfect example of how government should "just stay out of the way." But I doubt we're going to hear much about that from Paul since all of his potential voters are under water right now.

Before someone points their finger at me for politicizing a tragedy, be sure you understand who started this fight - Libertarian Hubris (Paul and his blind supporters).

We the people, are all in this together.

[Drunkenork]

Ya that is funny laughing at people in danger.

[Airius Droc]

Ya that is funny laughing at people in danger.

Right, that's exactly what I'm doing. I'm laughing at people that are in danger.

Here come the straw men.

[Slypieguy]

Obvious troll is obvious

[Unahim]

Ya that is funny laughing at people in danger.

Tbh you completely missed the point here.

While I do agree that politics should not be the first thing to think about in situations like this, I don't feel like the OP is slapping himself on the thighs in amusement here.
Far from it, he even sounds a bit annoyed at times.

[Airius Droc]

Tbh you completely missed the point here.

While I do agree that politics should not be the first thing to think about in situations like this, I don't feel like the OP is slapping himself on the thighs in amusement here.
Far from it, he even sounds a bit annoyed at times.

If it were up to me, the people in Galveston would probably get 10 times more than whatever they end up getting from the federal government.

I'm just pointing out that Ron Paul has traveled the country talking about Katrina and how the government shouldn't have gotten involved and should've just stayed out of the way...and now where is he? Now that his entire congressional district is under water, what's he have to say about this now?

Silence...as far as I can tell. Maybe I'm wrong, but I certainly don't expect him to support federal funding and relief? How could he? After all he's advocated for, what kind of ground could he stand on where it wouldn't be obvious that he was "flip flopping" on his core beliefs.

In my opinion, the people of Texas should throw that bum out of office if he does anything but say "yeah, I've thought this through and we need the government more than I've explained in the past. We ARE the government, afterall."

[Skyborn]

I agree with the OP actually...I like some of RP's ideas but he goes waaaay to far. Some things, in this case disaster relief, can be (but arent always)done better by a federal government...

[hardboiled]

I agree with the OP actually...I like some of RP's ideas but he goes waaaay to far. Some things, in this case disaster relief, can be (but arent always)done better by a federal government...

Still does not make it moral to forcibly take away other's property.

[Slypieguy]

I agree with the OP actually...I like some of RP's ideas but he goes waaaay to far. Some things, in this case disaster relief, can be (but arent always)done better by a federal government...

Yea, nothing like people in the 49 other states paying for a disaster that happened in Texas... :bang:

[Septus]

If it were up to me, the people in Galveston would probably get 10 times more than whatever they end up getting from the federal government.

I'm just pointing out that Ron Paul has traveled the country talking about Katrina and how the government shouldn't have gotten involved and should've just stayed out of the way...and now where is he? Now that his entire congressional district is under water, what's he have to say about this now?

Silence...as far as I can tell. Maybe I'm wrong, but I certainly don't expect him to support federal funding and relief? How could he? After all he's advocated for, what kind of ground could he stand on where it wouldn't be obvious that he was "flip flopping" on his core beliefs.

In my opinion, the people of Texas should throw that bum out of office if he does anything but say "yeah, I've thought this through and we need the government more than I've explained in the past. We ARE the government, afterall."

Well, you have to take Ron Paul's stances in context. Would anyone assume that a president Ron Paul would reduce the income tax to 0%?

No, it's just not feasible. The way our government is currently set up, there is just no way to do it. The same goes for "federal relief." Obviously the federal govt. would handle relief right now because they're the ones TAKING all the money to begin with.

If the state governments received the trillions of dollars the federal govt. currently controls, this sort of idealism would actually have a place.

And to preempt your "What if the state in question doesn't have the funds??" hypothetical - they could still request aid/loans from other states.

The point is fiscal responsibility. Our federal government has none of it.

Our school systems suffer from the same issue. We give money to the federal govt. instead of the state govt, and then the states have request the money back from the federal govt for local education. WTF?

[Incanam]

Obvious troll is obvious

You know you doing that is really annoying. Who started that anyway?

[Slypieguy]

You know you doing that is really annoying. Who started that anyway?

I don't know, but sometimes it must be said.

[Unahim]

Yea, nothing like people in the 49 other states paying for a disaster that happened in Texas... :bang:

That's not what you'd say if -your- entire life just got blown away, I'm sure.

[Slypieguy]

That's not what you'd say if -your- entire life just got blown away, I'm sure.

Maybe try taking your Oprah-induced emotions out of the picture for once and think in terms of fairness. If my house were wiped away in a a disaster, would I want people from all over the country to help bail me out? Of course. Would I think it's fair or just for those people to be forced to bail me out? Nope.

Not to mention, every "omg hurricane relief" thread always ignores the solution of local/state governments doing more to help the situation. I would be fine with bolstered support at the local level in the place of the millions of more inefficient federal dollars.

[Jezrith]

Besides feeling bad for the people caught in the path of Hurricane Ike, I couldn't help but chuckle at the Category 3 Irony that flooded the very Congressional District of Ron Paul.


If his constituents had not already paid for the service you'd have a point. But, they have so you don't. Nice try though.

Maybe try taking your Oprah-induced emotions out of the picture for once and think in terms of fairness. If my house were wiped away in a a disaster, would I want people from all over the country to help bail me out? Of course. Would I think it's fair or just for those people to be forced to bail me out? Nope.


And heaven forbid you actually pay for property insurance.

[Villa]

Hubris is a good term.
I am proud of the OP for debuting this term on forumfall.

[xKilljoy187]

Hurricane insurance ftw.

Anyways, I think most people underestimate the charitable proceeds that would come from the willingness of people...

[surGeonFFS]

[x] OP is an idiot
[ ] OP understands Ron Paul's positions

[Sandrix]

Lets think hypothetically a moment.

Consider the situation of a man living in America, we'll call him Mr. A, who thinks that the U.S. should have universal medical care. He's adament that all citizens deserve health care as a right, we shouldn't have to pay for something that noone should ever have to do without!

Then one day Mr. A needs a doctor. Since there's no universal medical care system for him to turn to, he has to pay for the doctor's services.

All of a sudden Mr. Douchebag comes along and calls Mr. A a hypocrite for paying for health care that he thinks should be free, since it goes against his beliefs.

That would be ridiculous right?

The way I reckon it, it would be just as ridiculous as calling Ron Paul a hypocrite for accepting federal aid, after his district has had no choice but to pay for such federal programs all this time.

[Mulambo]

[x] OP is an idiot
[ ] OP understands Ron Paul's positions

How is the OP misunderstanding Dr. Paul's position?

[Titus Ultor]

How is the OP misunderstanding Dr. Paul's position?

In addition to opposing federal aid, Ron Paul has often stated that so long as Galvestonians are paying a quarter or more of their income to the federal government, he's going to try to be a good Representative and get them as much of that back as he can. This has included writing in pork-barrel spending for his district on budgets he plans to vote against.

I don't suck Ron Paul's cock as much as a lot of people here, but the OP's a retard if he honestly has that understanding.

[Mulambo]

In addition to opposing federal aid, Ron Paul has often stated that so long as Galvestonians are paying a quarter or more of their income to the federal government, he's going to try to be a good Representative and get them as much of that back as he can. This has included writing in pork-barrel spending for his district on budgets he plans to vote against.
Ah, I see what you mean.

[Entreri]

Maybe try taking your Oprah-induced emotions out of the picture for once and think in terms of fairness. If my house were wiped away in a a disaster, would I want people from all over the country to help bail me out? Of course. Would I think it's fair or just for those people to be forced to bail me out? Nope.

Not to mention, every "omg hurricane relief" thread always ignores the solution of local/state governments doing more to help the situation. I would be fine with bolstered support at the local level in the place of the millions of more inefficient federal dollars.

How is it not fair, assuming disaster relief would be provided to everyone who needs it? If it is offered to everyone if they should need it how is it not fair? Your ideals are blinding you to the obvious point here.

No one is forced to do it, if they don't like it they can move to another country. That's why all the "government steals my money" arguments fail. You consent to it by living here. It's like the people that play pvp games then whine when they die.

Stop looking at RP's picture while touching yourself and actually think about it.

[Paralda]

Maybe try taking your Oprah-induced emotions out of the picture for once and think in terms of fairness.

I stopped reading here. Stop whining that "The government's not being fair!!!". Seriously, it's getting fucking annoying. Half of your posts have that theme.

[palo god]

Besides feeling bad for the people caught in the path of Hurricane Ike, I couldn't help but chuckle at the Category 3 Irony that flooded the very Congressional District of Ron Paul.

How many federal funds do you think Galveston will receive?

I've looked over the news headlines and I haven't seen a quote from Ron Paul saying that he's turning them down so that local community officials can rebuild the sea wall.

But perhaps I don't understand the "revolution." You'd think that this would be a perfect example of how government should "just stay out of the way." But I doubt we're going to hear much about that from Paul since all of his potential voters are under water right now.

Before someone points their finger at me for politicizing a tragedy, be sure you understand who started this fight - Libertarian Hubris (Paul and his blind supporters).

We the people, are all in this together.

You fail as a troll.

[Darkest Fears]

he isn't laughing at people in danger. no one should have been in danger. anyone who didnt leave the area of disaster chose to do so on their own free will. however, God help the people down there who have lost everything.

[Airius Droc]

You fail as a troll.

I wonder why that is?

[Airius Droc]

All of a sudden Mr. Douchebag comes along and calls Mr. A a hypocrite for paying for health care that he thinks should be free, since it goes against his beliefs.

That would be ridiculous right?

That would be a strawman arguement as well.

[Sandrix]

Actually its an example, not a straw man.

If it were a straw man I would be implying that your claim of hypocricy was ridiculous because the claim in the hypothetical example was ridiculous.

Rather, I am saying that the hypothetical claim of hypocricy is ridiculous for the same reasons that your claim is.

Hope I explained the difference well enough.

[Airius Droc]

If it were a straw man I would be implying that your claim of hypocricy was ridiculous because the claim in the hypothetical example was ridiculous.

Imo, that's exactly what you're doing.

[Sandrix]

I'll prove to you once and for all that it is an example and not a straw man.

The last part of my post can stand by its on.

The way I reckon it, it would ridiculous to call Ron Paul a hypocrite for accepting federal aid, after his district has had no choice but to pay for such federal programs all this time.

The hypothetical part was just for clarification, but its not necessary at all, since its just an example.

[Shamoke]

Yeah, I am pretty sure examples aren't strawman arguments since they are examples, not arguments.

[Unahim]

Maybe try taking your Oprah-induced emotions out of the picture for once and think in terms of fairness. If my house were wiped away in a a disaster, would I want people from all over the country to help bail me out? Of course. Would I think it's fair or just for those people to be forced to bail me out? Nope.

Not to mention, every "omg hurricane relief" thread always ignores the solution of local/state governments doing more to help the situation. I would be fine with bolstered support at the local level in the place of the millions of more inefficient federal dollars.

For the record, the only thing I know about Oprah is that she's black and on the heavy side.

Also "fairness" should not be a factor, sure it isn't fair that you have to pay for people you don't even know, but then again ask those peoples if they think their lives have been "fair" recently.

I don't know exactly how you guys handle federal support on a local level, but here if something bad happens that places a region in serious need of financial support, the federal government supplies the cash, under supervision often, but in the end it is the local government that decides how best to use it.
So here that wouldn't be "inefficient", if it's like that over there then it's a shame, but I still think that if you're going to throw the term "UNITED states of America" around then you should be exactly that.
United in good and in bad, as to say.

Besides, a lot of countries don't have a federal level, and there taxes and such are always used where it's most needed, which might not always be close to the guy who pays taxes.
I know the concept of "states" makes that concept harder to grasp, but it stays a country, after all.

To conclude, I'm not the one thinking in terms of "emotions", you are.
"It's not fair!", is certainly emotional in my book.
I think it's only logical that the whole takes care of the parts, lest it fall apart.

[Airius Droc]

The way I reckon it, it would ridiculous to call Ron Paul a hypocrite for accepting federal aid, after his district has had no choice but to pay for such federal programs all this time.

He voted against relief for Katrina.

Didn't those people pay for their relief?

[Lindorn]

Septus. 90% of what you say is completely retarded. I'm sorry man but you hit up various threads throughout the day with the most ridiculous unsupported assertations. The government couldn't operate without an income tax? The fucking government DOES operate without an income tax.

YOUR INCOME TAX DOLLARS GO TO PAY INTEREST ON THE NATIONAL DEBT.

Read that sentence a few times and please, for fucks sake stop posting shit unless you actually know what you are talking about. Sorry about the aggression because I know truly your heart is in the right place. But you say shit blindly and don't even bother to look it up man.

As for Airius...

In my opinion, the people of Texas should throw that bum out of office if he does anything but say "yeah, I've thought this through and we need the government more than I've explained in the past. We ARE the government, afterall."

This is why most people don't take any of your opinions seriously around here.

[Unahim]

Out of pure curiosity: You guys must have seen a ton of tax raises over the past few years then?

[Sandrix]

He voted against relief for Katrina.

Didn't those people pay for their relief?

Well you did make me curious. I decided to find out what Ron Paul himself had to say. Aside from it being a 50 million dollar spending package that they didn't have time to actually read...

What is Rep. Paul saying for himself?



Paul defended his vote by issuing a statement blasting the government for spending more money on a system he said has “failed spectacularly.”

“In several disasters that have befallen my Gulf Coast district, my constituents have over and over again told me that they prefer to rebuild and recover without the help of federal agencies like FEMA, which so often impose their own bureaucratic solutions on the owners or private property,” Paul said in the statement.

Paul instead called on Congress to send federal dollars directly to victims or to community organizations dedicated to clean-up and reconstruction.

I don't have much more to say about it. Now that you've seen both sides of the issue whatever opinion you form isn't really any of my concern. :)

[Carl Ragadamn]

Out of pure curiosity: You guys must have seen a ton of tax raises over the past few years then?

Nope we cut taxes and hopefully will again.

[Lindorn]

Yea we figure what's a few hundred billion extra printed dollars after all? Amirite?

[Airius Droc]

Well you did make me curious. I decided to find out what Ron Paul himself had to say. Aside from it being a 50 million dollar spending package that they didn't have time to actually read...



I don't have much more to say about it. Now that you've seen both sides of the issue whatever opinion you form isn't really any of my concern. :)

Two facts that you ignored...

1) Paul voted against the bill. Who cares what his reasoning is? He MUST vote against Texas getting the same type of money (for the same reason) or he's a hypocrite.

2) If Paul votes against the Texas getting the same type of money, how does this serve his constituents? "Oh great, I have no home and no money...Thanks for sticking to your guns Ron Paul. I'll swim down and vote for you next election if I'm not dead from starvation."

[Airius Droc]

Out of pure curiosity: You guys must have seen a ton of tax raises over the past few years then?

We've had nothing but deregulation and tax cuts for years and years. It's working out great for 2% of the nation.

[Slypieguy]

I don't have the patience to reply to all the asshattery in this thread. It's pretty sad, especially Entreri's remarks. He takes the textbook ignorant redneck "if you don't like it, move out of the country!!" rebuttal and turns it into an ignorant socialist rebuttal. Great success

[Entreri]

I don't have the patience to reply to all the asshattery in this thread. It's pretty sad, especially Entreri's remarks. He takes the textbook ignorant redneck "if you don't like it, move out of the country!!" rebuttal and turns it into an ignorant socialist rebuttal. Great success

I know I always wanted to do that.

You could still try and explain how it isn't fair though. Good luck with that though lol.

[Silverhandorder]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXxM737lRG0&eurl=http://www.campaignforliberty.com/

Seems like he is for paying people who payed into the insurance and will oppose giving any federal money to those that have not.

Seems like he went with option 2. Good job Ron Paul.

edit:
I know I always wanted to do that.

You could still try and explain how it isn't fair though. Good luck with that though lol.

Because some people put some thought into where they live, like away form coastal areas. Some people pay insurance to be protected against this. You should take responsibility for your actions fool.

edit2:

LOL, Don’t mess with Texans

Sedonia Owen, 75, and her son, Lindy McKissick, defied evacuation orders in Galveston because they wanted to protect their neighborhood from possible looters. She was watching floodwaters recede from her front porch Saturday morning, armed with a shotgun.

“My neighbors told me, ‘You’ve got my permission. Anybody who goes into my house, you can shoot them,’” said Owen.

[Airius Droc]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXxM737lRG0&eurl=http://www.campaignforliberty.com/

Seems like he is for paying people who payed into the insurance and will oppose giving any federal money to those that have not.

Seems like he went with option 2. Good job Ron Paul.

Here's a little fact you've probably never heard of before...

Your local county has to FIRST opt into the federal flood insurance plan before YOU as an individual are able to buy the insurance. How do I know this? Because my county (a long with many others in OHIO) has opted out for years (I have no idea why) and I can't buy flood insurance for my home. I don't live in a flood zone, and the insurance would only cost me like $55 a year (I got a quote), but I still can't get it from anyone in the US because of my gay ass county officials (not federal officials - but county officials).

Also, (and I don't know if this is STILL true today) but at one time if you had the federal flood insurance, got flooded once and made a claim, then got flooded again - you weren't covered. It was like there was a 1 strike rule - your only option was to move out of where you lived.

But back to Ron Paul, if he votes for the federal funding he's not going to have a choice to give the money to the people that have the insurance and those that don't. Just like Katrina. So he's going to vote for it, and he's going to be a hypocrite - that's my prediction.

[Silverhandorder]

To be honest I don't care. There are more important matters then bitching at his district that is recovering very well from the storm. I don't expect him to vote in any federal help if it goes against his principals. Knowing that from the past how you misrepresent the truth I don't want to get bogged down in this discussion.

[Slypieguy]

I know I always wanted to do that.

You could still try and explain how it isn't fair though. Good luck with that though lol.

I could, but it's clear that you are one of those who think the government and your fellow citizens owe you something, so I'm not gonna bother.

[Airius Droc]

To be honest I don't care. There are more important matters then bitching at his district that is recovering very well from the storm. I don't expect him to vote in any federal help if it goes against his principals. Knowing that from the past how you misrepresent the truth I don't want to get bogged down in this discussion.

Convenient.

[Sargon]

Sometimes people on this forum disgust me.