Explain how this works

[Kram]

I'm not exactly sure how a game that doesn't involve experience gaining keeps the interest of the players. Help me to understand cause my mind has been brainwashed to think that traditional MMO's are the only way it can work.

1. If you dont gain levels then what makes your character progress? Are items and increased player skill the only means of advancing your character?

2. I can't imagine you start the game knowing every skill in the game, so how does your character learn to do things? like how do i learn to cast a spell or how do I learn to do a special move with a dagger?

[ePeen]

You can set your own goals, you dont need pre-defined rules to keep you interested in a game. And about the skills, just pick up a scroll and cast the spell. When you use something your skill automatically goes up.

[Prol]

Oh, here before you a victim of a popsa with whom we were fed with last five years...

[Drunkenork]

Mario bros. doesn't have toon levels and I still love that!

[Renoroc]

I'm not exactly sure how a game that doesn't involve experience gaining keeps the interest of the players. Help me to understand cause my mind has been brainwashed to think that traditional MMO's are the only way it can work.

1. If you dont gain levels then what makes your character progress? Are items and increased player skill the only means of advancing your character?

2. I can't imagine you start the game knowing every skill in the game, so how does your character learn to do things? like how do i learn to cast a spell or how do I learn to do a special move with a dagger?


First off, you're about to receive some seriously heavy flaming...

Character advancement will be entirely skill based. You choose what skills you want to skill up and use those skills to achieve that end. A character specialized in their skills, that has taken the time to skill them up will be more powerful than someone that has not.

As far as knowing all skills at the start, no. You learn the various skills from NPCs and other players. It has been said by Aventurine that some NPCs will require you to do quests or whatever before they will teach you the skill that you are after. Also, I believe that some skills are unlocked by advancing other skills to a certain point, although this too might require you visiting an NPC or another player after reaching that point to learn the skill.

[Fudgy_Neeples]

I'm not exactly sure how a game that doesn't involve experience gaining keeps the interest of the players. Help me to understand cause my mind has been brainwashed to think that traditional MMO's are the only way it can work.

Sure.

1. If you dont gain levels then what makes your character progress? Are items and increased player skill the only means of advancing your character?

You gain levels for the skills you use. For example, if you're are fighting another player with your axe, then your polearm skill will raise. It's assumed the more skill points you have, the faster/more powerful your swings will be. You might even be able to unlock new maneuvers or skills.

2. I can't imagine you start the game knowing every skill in the game, so how does your character learn to do things? like how do i learn to cast a spell or how do I learn to do a special move with a dagger?

Your character starts with only basic skills. He/she has to learn the rest from instructors in the game. There's also a soft cap which makes gaining new skill points harder and harder after you have a certain amount. There's also a skill decay which decays your skills very slowly if you don't use them for a while. This is to stop people from mastering all the skills in the game.

[Orc0909]

Mario bros. doesn't have toon levels and I still love that!

Mario Bros. is a different type of game. Neither an RPG or an MMO. But I agree with you anyways.

[Abbadon]

I'm not exactly sure how a game that doesn't involve experience gaining keeps the interest of the players. Help me to understand cause my mind has been brainwashed to think that traditional MMO's are the only way it can work.

1. If you dont gain levels then what makes your character progress? Are items and increased player skill the only means of advancing your character?

2. I can't imagine you start the game knowing every skill in the game, so how does your character learn to do things? like how do i learn to cast a spell or how do I learn to do a special move with a dagger?

UO is still going with active members. From 97 on...


it has no lvls and is a skill system. go try that out and you can get sorta an idea.

[strayfe]

Both (SWG Pre-CU) And the (Elder scrolls franchise) have both proven that "Skills" rather than "levels" can keep people happy, although elder scrolls had levels, it only acted as a reference to how far youve come, ALL your strength in the elder scrolls games litteraly came from skilling up and improving personal attributes, and in SWG, the further you got in a skill template, the more skills you unlocked, I loved this design. (Also UO) forgot to mention initially, I have never played it, but i can see why it was popular

[OvanOf Twilight]

I'm not exactly sure how a game that doesn't involve experience gaining keeps the interest of the players. Help me to understand cause my mind has been brainwashed to think that traditional MMO's are the only way it can work.

1. If you dont gain levels then what makes your character progress? Are items and increased player skill the only means of advancing your character?

2. I can't imagine you start the game knowing every skill in the game, so how does your character learn to do things? like how do i learn to cast a spell or how do I learn to do a special move with a dagger?

To answer in Order-
1.Using your skills, completeing quests, items, et cetera. No.
2.By doing them. By trying to do it basically.

[Drunkenork]

Mario Bros. is a different type of game. Neither an RPG or an MMO. But I agree with you anyways.

I know :P , hehe but it really does still rock. lol.

[Kram]

Ah I see. So really they're replaced the normal leveling system with a skill system. Though unlike other games which has failed at this (swg) they don't necessarily put a hard cap on the skillups

So technically a player could master a load of different skills and sort of have their very own custom class. So to speak?

Seems kinda like Skills = Levels. But as long as they dont make the same mistakes SOE made with swg I'd imagine this would work nicely.

do you gain skills that increase your hitpoints or "mana"? or are those static numbers?

[Prol]

Ah I see. So really they're replaced the normal leveling system with a skill system.

Leveling system is abnormal system, because horde of 5 lvl noobs NEVER kill one 100 lvl grandfather.

Skill system gives real chance to small group of noobs to kill character with many-many skills.

[LaytoRest]

Ah I see. So really they're replaced the normal leveling system with a skill system. Though unlike other games which has failed at this (swg) they don't necessarily put a hard cap on the skillups
Initially, yes, but SWG only 'failed' because it completely changes it's own game style. Even then, it still has quite a few players.

So technically a player could master a load of different skills and sort of have their very own custom class. So to speak? [quote]
There are no classes, so to speak.
[quote=Kram;1681740]
Seems kinda like Skills = Levels. But as long as they dont make the same mistakes SOE made with swg I'd imagine this would work nicely.
Essentially, yes Skills, I guess, are levels. But if they were... You would NEVER (It's probably impossible) be able to get the fully max skilled character. Never.

do you gain skills that increase your hitpoints or "mana"? or are those static numbers?
Yes. Though, I'm not really sure how you would raise mainstream skills (strength, intelligence, charisma and whatnot) unless you had it being raised by a certain set of skills slowly... But yes, you can raise your mana and health.

[Orc0909]

Leveling system is abnormal system, because horde of 5 lvl noobs NEVER kill one 100 lvl grandfather.

Skill system gives real chance to small group of noobs to kill character with many-many skills.

But the combat system that encourages actual skill will allow a skillful player with a recent character to possible kill a small group of sucky players who have played for awhile and skilled up their abilities. This is something you must also take into consideration.

[grask]

Ah I see. So really they're replaced the normal leveling system with a skill system. Though unlike other games which has failed at this (swg) they don't necessarily put a hard cap on the skillups

So technically a player could master a load of different skills and sort of have their very own custom class. So to speak?

Seems kinda like Skills = Levels. But as long as they dont make the same mistakes SOE made with swg I'd imagine this would work nicely.

do you gain skills that increase your hitpoints or "mana"? or are those static numbers?

SWG failed after they took skill system and introduced lvl system :sly:

Yes, the point is you can have your very own class, most of the players will be and have different skills from eachother.

Mana Health and Stamina will also increase (to a point) I'm sure, because they will depend on your attributes like Strenght etc, not sure exactly how it'll work tho.

[Drunkenork]

on a leveling system or not, some players will always have an edge, because they are just very good, or very determined. This way, at least you have greater odds.

[Prol]

But the combat system that encourages actual skill will allow a skillful player with a recent character to possible kill a small group of sucky players who have played for awhile and skilled up their abilities. This is something you must also take into consideration.

I agree with you.

In levelling system the skilled player of 5th level can make nothing 100 lvl sucky player.

[ikhoefnix]

look up information about DF and within 10 minutes you will find what you are looking for.

skill based > lvls

[DarkCrusader]

This Might Help you understand.

Character:

six playable races, Dwarves, Alfar, Humans, Mahirim, Mirdain, Orks (AR 10, SR 10) Source: http://www.darkfallonline.com/features/explore.html

Open ability system, more than 1000 skills and spells (AR 3, SR 8) Source: http://rpgvault.ign.com/articles/437/437103p1.html

They are hoping to get at least 500 skills and 500 spells in the retail (AR 5, SR 10) Source: http://www.darkfallonline.com/faq/skills.html

Ultima Online had about a hundred skills and spells. Darkfall has at least 10 times that (AR 3, SR 8) Source: http://rpgvault.ign.com/articles/716/716421p1.html

There are approximately 300 skills in this game with prerequisites for certain skills (AR 3, SR 7) Source: http://www.womengamers.com/interviews/darkfall.php

Hundrets of offensive and devensive spells (AR 10, SR 10) Source: http://www.darkfallonline.com/features/fight.html

Skills can be bought from npcs, some can be learnt from other players (AR 9, SR 10) Source: http://www.darkfallonline.com/faq/skills.html

The Skill Cap is at 100 (AR 10, SR 10) Source: http://www.darkfallonline.com/faq/skills.html

Characters could theoretically learn any skill they want, but a variety of skills/spells is race specific or can only be learnt by prestige classes (AR 10, SR 10) Source: http://www.darkfallonline.com/faq/skills.html

There are no character levels, its a pure Skill System (AR 10, SR 10) Source: n/a, its a well known fact

Skills are being improved by practising them / using them (AR 10, SR 10) Source: n/a, its a well known fact

An ingame Message will inform you when skills have improved (AR 9, SR 8) Source: http://rpgvault.ign.com/articles/716/716421p1.html

There are also skill trees that open up new skill categories that lead to further specialization (AR 8, SR 8) Source: http://rpgvault.ign.com/articles/716/716421p1.html

characters in Darkfall have attributes, like Strength, Intelligence, Constitution (AR 9, SR 8) Source: http://rpgvault.ign.com/articles/716/716421p1.html

Some Basic Classes: explorer, hunter, mercenary, smith, magician, fisherman (AR 6, SR 8) Source: http://rpgvault.ign.com/articles/437/437103p1.html

Some Prestige Classes: Paladin, Assassin, Gladiator and Enchanter (AR 10, SR 10) Source: http://www.darkfallonline.com/faq/world.html

There are basically no traditional character templates though, a dwarven fighter can still pick up some magic skills as a support (AR 10, SR 10) Source: http://www.darkfallonline.com/faq/world.html

Players later do have an option to follow a class system, via the prestige classes (AR 10, SR 10) Source: http://www.darkfallonline.com/faq/world.html

Once a player picked a prestige class, he can change his class later with some minor penalties (AR 10, SR 10) Source: http://www.darkfallonline.com/faq/world.html

There will be around 100 Prestige Classes Total (AR 10, SR 10) Source: http://www.darkfallonline.com/features/freedom.html

The game supports a narrative Legend system, allowing for players to become famous or infamous among the community (AR 10, SR 10) Source: http://www.darkfallonline.com/features/legend.html

Characters need to eat and drink regularly or they will suffer from temporary penalties, characters cant starve though (AR 10, SR 10) Source: http://www.darkfallonline.com/faq/world.html

Wearing Armor will affect the swimming and running speed (AR 10, SR 10) Source: http://www.darkfallonline.com/faq/world.html

You can have pets and NPC hirelings in Darkfall, ranging from tamed animals and monsters, to summoned skeletons, charmed animals and monsters, hired NPC merchants, hired NPC guards (AR 10, SR 10) Source: http://www.darkfallonline.com/faq/economy.html

Six rings can be equipped (AR 9, SR 8) Source: http://rpgvault.ign.com/articles/442/442426p1.html

Cape and robe can be worn at the same time, and over armor if so desired (AR 9, SR 8) Source: http://rpgvault.ign.com/articles/442/442426p1.html

There will be a hotbar. You can drag spells and skills here, for easier access (AR 9, SR 8) Source: http://rpgvault.ign.com/articles/442/442426p1.html

[Dembar]

sadly that list is not 100% accurate any more but it will give people a idea about darkfall indeed.

[DarkCrusader]

sadly that list is not 100% accurate any more but it will give people a idea about darkfall indeed.

Ya I know but I tried :(:bang:

[ikhoefnix]

Ya I know but I tried :(:bang:

u did good. when signing up for your darkfall forum account, you should have to read through all of those links and get quizzed before being allowed to post.

[DarkCrusader]

u did good. when signing up for your darkfall forum account, you should have to read through all of those links and get quizzed before being allowed to post.

Think it would do any good? Im tired of reading im ready to PLAY.

[grask]

Think it would do any good? Im tired of reading im ready to PLAY.

Supported!

[Youngdirty]

Ya I know but I tried :(:bang:

specifically the one about pets is off
you can hire guards/gatherers/shop owners
but no actual "pets" they've removed pets from combat entirely don't remember where i read this but i did read it somewhere around here i swear:)

[DarkCrusader]

Hmm no pets aye? Its for the better hate to try and deal with pets anyhoo,kinda getting off the topic on this post yes that info is a year old but its about the best ive seen so far anywhere.:bang:

[Olkros]

Im very pleased to read all this info, thank you.

I can't wait to play this game, it seems that i will love it as much as I loved AC, at least!

Im tired of reading im ready to PLAY.
QFT

[pyrow]

The FAQ section owns. So does the Ask a Staff.

[dantemp]

I'm not exactly sure how a game that doesn't involve experience gaining keeps the interest of the players. Help me to understand cause my mind has been brainwashed to think that traditional MMO's are the only way it can work.

1. If you dont gain levels then what makes your character progress? Are items and increased player skill the only means of advancing your character?

2. I can't imagine you start the game knowing every skill in the game, so how does your character learn to do things? like how do i learn to cast a spell or how do I learn to do a special move with a dagger?

Your mistake is thinking that making your character stronger could be the only goal a game could have. If that was true, how could players, who don't have a lot of freetime, enjoy the game? They'll be weak and worthless... How about make yourself stronger? Not your character, but yourself. Not having 10k Health, 40k Mana and 100k Stamina, but obtaining the skills to be better than others in the game. To learn the nature of the game. The mechanic of the combat. To find the right alliance and the right place for you. To learn how to place the fatal blow in the enemy body. To hit them with an arrow. To blow them away with a spell. All this is going to take quite a time to master it. And this only small part of the things you can do in the game. You will do it. Wheater it's aiming, hiding, exploaring or even tactics developing, it's up to you. And you have 9 999 other players to compete with... If that's not interesting for you, go play WoW.

[KruniacZio]

Leveling system is abnormal system, because horde of 5 lvl noobs NEVER kill one 100 lvl grandfather.

Skill system gives real chance to small group of noobs to kill character with many-many skills.

See the Bobs and Freds of Ultima Online for more information. New characters, all bald, all named Bob or Fred, all with newbie katanas which have been poisoned, and all they would do is gank GM warriors in dungeons with about 20 members. Insanity.