To the americans!

[willithesm]

How bad is americas health care system?

[jordanleroux]

How bad is americas health care systems?

Why do you care?

[Pcheez]

Its pretty abysmal as far as i know.

Private insurance or bust.

Now this is a waste of thread.

[Killuminati]

feels good man

[LordTenacious]

It needs work, but not a universal healthcare overhaul. Otherwise we could end up like the NHS, and no one in their right minds would want that.

Oh crap, this thread is going to end in a hellfire of flames.

[Shaehl]

Do you mean the quality of the care, or the ease of attaining it? As far as quality goes, we're second to none.

[Pcheez]

It needs work, but not a universal healthcare overhaul.

Oh crap, this thread is going to end in a hellfire of flames.

Get to the hypothetical choppa.

And what else would constitute a hellfire besides flames ?

Maybe raging souls, hmm

[DeathByCactus]

Meant to vote IDK, voted for it's fucking horrible.... oops :P

[Baralis]

Other than cost our health care system is great, the problem here is the retardedly high cost for even the simplest of things. Its sad when americans go out of country to have operations to avoid the high costs.

[Tdog]

Depends on what your really asking.... Health care system or the our Health care coverage system.

Our Health Care is the best in the world and sets the bar. As far as our Health care coverage system? Well you either pay for it or you dont have it.

[willithesm]

Depends on what your really asking.... Health care system or the our Health care coverage system.

Our Health Care is the best in the world and sets the bar. As far as our Health care coverage system? Well you either pay for it or you dont have it.

both

[Skyborn]

Um...I think its awesome, I have free full coverage health care from the military...:D

[tazco]

The guy with more money gets the help isnt that how amaricas health care works?. lmao

[LordTenacious]

And so it begins. These parties usually kick off with some poorly written post that is a weak jab.

[Aldur]

How bad is americas health care system?

Please be more specific...what am I supposed to have issue with?

1) Doctors - best in world
2) Hospital Quality - best in world
3) Costs - bad like everywhere else
4) Availability - excellent, if you work for a living. Poor, if you depend on my tax

The only thing bad about it is that we have a federal law that we cannot turn anyone away at the emergency room. That means illegal immigrants with no insurance can get free treatment with my tax $$ even if the situation isn't an emergency. Maybe they just have a cough and a runny nose. Because of this there are hospitals in Arizona, Nevada, and Texas that have gone bankrupt.

If you are baiting us into a conversation about Universal Health Care, you can stop right there. Universal care wold lower the quality of care because costs would have to be managed. You would no longer get to choose the best doctors because those decisions would be made for you.

[Skyborn]

If you are baiting us into a conversation about Universal Health Care, you can stop right there. Universal care wold lower the quality of care because costs would have to be managed. You would no longer get to choose the best doctors because those decisions would be made for you.

Pretty much,

/thread

[shnedit]

The one with swearing it in cause im well mature.

[Caffy]

The very best our planet has to offer. Unlike some countries where you have to wait in line for weeks/months for medical care I can see almost any doctor I want, today, at a time of my choosing.

As I'm young and healthy I don't have to be pay for healthcare I'm not using.

We have the best doctors in the world, even taking in those who have fled from the horror of socialist medical systems. My own doctor fled Canada because the work/income ratio was unfair.

We have the best treatment centers in the world, with the most advanced technology. Available to anyone, at a moments notice.

You will never be left outside in an ambulance for hours before being able to actually go into the hospital where you get to wait several more hours before recieving treatment.

There are a million reasons I would rather be treated in the US than anywhere else. The Irony is that the worst healthcare experiences I've had were trying to help my dying grandparents navigate Medicare, and my brother get the shit he needed from the VA.

It's funny how everyone attacks the US health care system but come here when their own countries fail them.

[Pcheez]

Please be more specific...what am I supposed to have issue with?

1) Doctors - best in world
2) Hospital Quality - best in world
3) Costs - bad like everywhere else
4) Availability - excellent, if you work for a living. Poor, if you depend on my tax

The only thing bad about it is that we have a federal law that we cannot turn anyone away at the emergency room. That means illegal immigrants with no insurance can get free treatment with my tax $$ even if the situation isn't an emergency. Maybe they just have a cough and a runny nose. Because of this there are hospitals in Arizona, Nevada, and Texas that have gone bankrupt.

If you are baiting us into a conversation about Universal Health Care, you can stop right there. Universal care wold lower the quality of care because costs would have to be managed. You would no longer get to choose the best doctors because those decisions would be made for you.



You know the amount of americans/europeans that fly to Lebanon to get treated by our docs would surprise you.

What they dont know is that they are being treated with french technology/equipment.

HA.

[Selzifan]

You know the amount of americans/europeans that fly to Lebanon to get treated by our docs would surprise you.

What they dont know is that they are being treated with french technology/equipment.

HA.

True, but nobody flies to the European socialist countries to get treatment.

[Tdog]

You know the amount of americans/europeans that fly to Lebanon to get treated by our docs would surprise you.

What they dont know is that they are being treated with french technology/equipment.

HA.

It fails to compare to how many come to America for their medical needs.
Our Heath system as a whole is great, the biggest issue is the medical law suits for stupid things that drive the price though the roof. Less then 5 years ago, our Health system was amazing and fairly priced, now because of the law suits, our prices are though the roof.

Universal Health care is great on paper but so is Communism. In reality it does not work out as well as you plan and cost alot of money to maintain.

[Forgin]

I don't live in america and in my country everyone gets healthcare.
But I have enough money to pay for it, so I'm undecided.

[Caffy]

Why do I get the feeling it's all Eurotards who are voting 'IT sI T3h F\/(K1nG H0rR1Bl3!!11!one!!" :rolleyes:

[stalwart]

If you are baiting us into a conversation about Universal Health Care, you can stop right there. Universal care wold lower the quality of care because costs would have to be managed. You would no longer get to choose the best doctors because those decisions would be made for you.
we already have managed healthcare right now. "health management organizations" or "HMOs"

if it were universal, you could imagine how bad it would be.

[Tiberias]

Ha, considering the majority of this community are too young to be on their own healtchare you aren't possibly going to get a result anywhere near reality.

[Aldur]

we already have managed healthcare right now. "health management organizations" or "HMOs"

if it were universal, you could imagine how bad it would be.

Managed, of course. But not by the government. You have not weakened my position that having a choice is better than not having a choice. Nice try.

EDIT: Read the post below me. Perfect illustration of what I am saying. No choice gov't management = lower pay for doc=exodus=lower quality over time.

[trichlor]

We have the best doctors in the world, even taking in those who have fled from the horror of socialist medical systems. My own doctor fled Canada because the work/income ratio was unfair.


This is true. Canada needs to seriously pay their Doctors more, or we'll keep loosing the good ones.

There aren't many High quality General Practitioners here.

[Ziegler]

This is true. Canada needs to seriously pay their Doctors more, or we'll keep loosing the good ones.

There aren't many High quality General Practitioners here.

Sure there are....they just run illegal private practices which the govt' convientantly ignores because it is providing relief to a straining system.

[Elemancer]

curious, seems like anyone who voted it's horrible bothered to give a reason...

I have had no issues, nor have I been gouged for healthcare (been insured all my life). For the middle class, healthcare is perfect.

IMO, before we go for healthcare we should subsidize vet care...my vet bills are retardedly high for what I get.

[zie]

insurance = bad guys, its a megascam

[Killuminati]

insurance = bad guys, its a megascam

Wow...*facepalm*

[Signus]

I'll use my friend's argument against Universal Healthcare....

"Hey, I sure as hell know that I wouldn't want someone paying for all my reconstruction surgery after I smash my car up because I was speeding down a residential street, so I don't want to pay for when they fuck up too."

[Forgin]

insurance = bad guys, its a megascam

I would drive over you with a car just to make you rethink that statement.

[Carl Ragadamn]

Capitalist doctors support Universal Healthcare reform...Because they know they can get cash under the table for treatment after hours.

As to the OP most of what you want to know has been covered. On problem with healthcare as an industry that has not been talked about, is that people now go to the doctor for every cough and sneeze. Also the drain on resources that illegal immigrants cause has not been good for the system as a whole. Still care for extreme disease's like cancer is second to none.

[Marrik]

How bad is americas health care system?

i think its great, because i can afford it.


its not that it isnt good, its just expensive.

[Entreri]

I've never experienced another health care system so I don't really have anything to base an opinion on. I haven't even had to use health care facilities to much so far in my life.

[Temet nosce]

Why does this poll not have a "We have a health care system?" option?

Now personally I have no real problem with the way we manage health care (because I have insurance) but we actually don't have a universal health care system like this poll implies.

[Tad]

Compared to who? The entire world? North America? 1st World Countries?

[holychicken]

Anyone who says that America has the highest quality care is either lying, ignorant or does not know the whole truth. We do top *part* of the quality care guidelines, but we bumble a bunch of them as well which has us fall way down list behind a lot of nationalized healthcare systems.

[holychicken]

insurance = bad guys, its a megascam
It isn't that they are "bad guys" it is that they are driven by profits and not the desire to help people. It is a messed up system when you get down to it.

[Tdog]

Anyone who says that America has the highest quality care is either lying, ignorant or does not know the whole truth. We do top *part* of the quality care guidelines, but we bumble a bunch of them as well which has us fall way down list behind a lot of nationalized healthcare systems.

If you are sick and need the best health care in the world were do you go? Most choose America because we have the best technology and the best trained doctors. International doctors come to America to work.

nationalized healthcare is great on paper but in reality it creates a system which makes patients wait for a long time to see doctors.

Today if I were to call to make an appointment with my doctor I could see him by tomorrow for sure... In Canada, it would be up to 2 weeks before I saw my doctor.

Yes Its cheap in Canada but you get what you paid for.

[Matriel]

It's awesome. I get great care for a very cheap recurring cost. Much less than the added taxation I would have to shoulder in Europe.

It sucks for a lot of people that need to better themselves, but that's not my fucking problem. This isn't an ant hive.


I'm also willing to be that most of the "it's fucking horrible" camp is jobless crybaby students.

[jonyak]

If you are sick and need the best health care in the world were do you go? Most choose America because we have the best technology and the best trained doctors. International doctors come to America to work.

nationalized healthcare is great on paper but in reality it creates a system which makes patients wait for a long time to see doctors.

Today if I were to call to make an appointment with my doctor I could see him by tomorrow for sure... In Canada, it would be up to 2 weeks before I saw my doctor.

Yes Its cheap in Canada but you get what you paid for.

um, every time I have needed to see a doctor I have gotten in right away.

[Matriel]

um, every time I have needed to see a doctor I have gotten in right away.

So, obviously there must be no documented issues with the entire Canadian system because of your experience. Check!

[jonyak]

So, obviously there must be no documented issues with the entire Canadian system because of your experience. Check!

nah, there have been incidents... It has never effected me though or anyone I know...

but come on.. there are lots with the american system as well.

[Matriel]

nah, there have been incidents... It has never effected me though or anyone I know...

but come on.. there are lots with the american system as well.

Yes, but considering our system is set up to let people fail and compares directly, that makes me lol.

[holychicken]

If you are sick and need the best health care in the world were do you go? Most choose America because we have the best technology and the best trained doctors. International doctors come to America to work.
Your view of quality is very narrow. If you are talking about 1 single case of something, America is the top of the world. However, for chronically ill patients, America ranks near the bottom of care. We make more mistakes than most other countries, our systems are old as fuck and outdates leading to lost information and lost time and high risk to patients. But even then it is not 100% of the time.

So sure, if you know exactly what the problem is America is your best bet to get it fixed. . . but there is a lot more to quality care than that.

nationalized healthcare is great on paper but in reality it creates a system which makes patients wait for a long time to see doctors.

Today if I were to call to make an appointment with my doctor I could see him by tomorrow for sure... In Canada, it would be up to 2 weeks before I saw my doctor.
2 weeks? I live right outside of NYC and while I could get to see a doctor today or tomorrow for non-emergency reasons, to see good doctors 2 weeks is not all that long of a wait.

Yes Its cheap in Canada but you get what you paid for.
Which, bang for the buck, is a hell of a lot more than you get in America.

Don't get me wrong, I am not bashing the American system. . . it has its strengths but it certainly has its weaknesses as well.

[Tdog]

Your view of quality is very narrow. If you are talking about 1 single case of something, America is the top of the world. However, for chronically ill patients, America ranks near the bottom of care. We make more mistakes than most other countries, our systems are old as fuck and outdates leading to lost information and lost time and high risk to patients. But even then it is not 100% of the time.

So sure, if you know exactly what the problem is America is your best bet to get it fixed. . . but there is a lot more to quality care than that.


2 weeks? I live right outside of NYC and while I could get to see a doctor today or tomorrow for non-emergency reasons, to see good doctors 2 weeks is not all that long of a wait.


Which, bang for the buck, is a hell of a lot more than you get in America.

Don't get me wrong, I am not bashing the American system. . . it has its strengths but it certainly has its weaknesses as well.

I am talking based on the experence I had with my Mother. She has Multiple myeloma and had to get a stem cell transplant. She is doing fine now, she is back to work and she is in remission. While she was sick she did alot of research on her sickness, she found that in most other countries they were doing other types of treatments first then after that fails tries the stem cell transplant. She was able to get the right treatment on the first try and only had to deal with the sickness for less then a year.

In other countries they are spending 2 to 3 years to get it in remission.

[Malhavok]

Its high because the insured and cash payers carry the pro-bono and low-bono for the most part. As the cost goes up to cover it more and more people are unable to pay. So on and so forth. Moral hazard spiral ftw.

Also we have higher quality of care than any other country in the world for those who can afford it. For example, in Japan if you have a cancer with a high mortality rate you just die. In the US we spend the hundreds of thousands to fight it as long as your insurance covers it.

[Salo]

My personal experience of the NHS has been very good. Most people I know (friends, families, acquiantances) have been able to access quality healthcare as and when they've needed it. They've been brilliant with my dad who is extremely ill. At no point has cost been a factor, beyond the nominal fixed prescription fee (and my dad doesn't even have to pay that).

The inhalers, the oxygen tanks (big one at home and little travel ones as well) the anti-biotics, the bi-weekly tests, the intermittent stays in intensive care. Dying is hard enough without adding the worry of costs.

My friend who died last year, would have spent his final months worrying about costs and leaving behind a mountain of debt for his widow, had his care not been free at the point of need.

There are some areas of difficulty, and there are tough decisions to make about what care is available, when and to whom. But the thing that decides it is not personal income. Anytime there is pressure on resources something will give. For the most part, however, people are able to get the care they need, when they need it and waiting lists have come down a hell of a long way in the UK.

I would hate to have a market led healthcare system. Indeed much of the movement has been in that direction and that's usually where the gaps in service lie. The truth is though, that in poll after poll there is a vast disparity between people's own personal experience of healthcare and their opinion of how healthy the caresystem is. A massive disparity that suggests the constant media hype about problems is having a negative effect on people's perceptions of the NHS.

Oh, and the person who said Americans aren't traveling to European socialist countries to get care is talking shite. It happens. France in particular attracts American health tourists. As indeed does Cuba (not european, but definately socialised medicine) on a larger scale.

[palo god]

We have the best health care in the world, just because its expensive doesn't mean its bad.

[verlox2]

My personal experience of the NHS has been very good. Most people I know (friends, families, acquiantances) have been able to access quality healthcare as and when they've needed it. They've been brilliant with my dad who is extremely ill. At no point has cost been a factor, beyond the nominal fixed prescription fee (and my dad doesn't even have to pay that).

The inhalers, the oxygen tanks (big one at home and little travel ones as well) the anti-biotics, the bi-weekly tests, the intermittent stays in intensive care. Dying is hard enough without adding the worry of costs.

My friend who died last year, would have spent his final months worrying about costs and leaving behind a mountain of debt for his widow, had his care not been free at the point of need.

There are some areas of difficulty, and there are tough decisions to make about what care is available, when and to whom. But the thing that decides it is not personal income. Anytime there is pressure on resources something will give. For the most part, however, people are able to get the care they need, when they need it and waiting lists have come down a hell of a long way in the UK.

I would hate to have a market led healthcare system. Indeed much of the movement has been in that direction and that's usually where the gaps in service lie. The truth is though, that in poll after poll there is a vast disparity between people's own personal experience of healthcare and their opinion of how healthy the caresystem is. A massive disparity that suggests the constant media hype about problems is having a negative effect on people's perceptions of the NHS.

Oh, and the person who said Americans aren't traveling to European socialist countries to get care is talking shite. It happens. France in particular attracts American health tourists. As indeed does Cuba (not european, but definately socialised medicine) on a larger scale.

my mom almost died in a french hospital because the doctors and nurses were shit and they didn't even give her the right blood-type, TWICE!

[Matriel]

We have the best health care in the world, just because its expensive doesn't mean its bad.

It's expensive becasue of the HMO Act and the FDA. Wish those things would die!

[Salo]

my mom almost died in a french hospital because the doctors and nurses were shit and they didn't even give her the right blood-type, TWICE!


I can see how that might give you a bad impression of the health care system in France. And it is true there are accidents and errors and some hospitals and some staff are better than others. Are you telling me there are never any mistakes made in American hospitals?

[Helgeran]

I enjoyed my last totally tax funded visit to the dentist today.

[verlox2]

I can see how that might give you a bad impression of the health care system in France. And it is true there are accidents and errors and some hospitals and some staff are better than others. Are you telling me there are never any mistakes made in American hospitals?

Sure, but since I haven't had those errors affect me or mine, it doesn't really matter to me....wow, I sound like a dick.

And here's a funny thing about France.

War on Terrorism - France, keeping in mind its recent history, surrenders to Germans and Muslims just to be safe. Attempts to surrender to Vietnamese ambassador fail after he takes refuge in a McDonald's.

[stalwart]

Managed, of course. But not by the government. You have not weakened my position that having a choice is better than not having a choice. Nice try.

EDIT: Read the post below me. Perfect illustration of what I am saying. No choice gov't management = lower pay for doc=exodus=lower quality over time.

i'm agreeing with you, dude.

i'm saying if we turn our system universal, we'd be fucked even more.

[Barbarossa]

I'm always amazed at how many folks who don't live in the US are so concerned about things going on here that do not concern them at all.

Say OP, how are the frauleins tits in Germany these days? Are they big, are they small? Can they crush beer cans with them?

[Ammon777]

Im schizo and all psychiatrists & doctors care about nowadays is forcing open your mouth and shoving pills down your throat. Those pills are poison, thats why I am quitting them. For instance, Zyprexa, a pill I am quitting, directly causes type 1 diabetes. Thats the kind that you have to take shots every day the rest of your fucking life. So I am quitting Zyprexa before I get that shit. I would rather hear voices more since I am good at handling them rather than taking all that shit that makes me sleep 16 hours every fucking day of my life.

[Lysandor]

The guy with more money gets the help isnt that how amaricas health care works?. lmao

Makes sense to me. It's better than the government stealing money from me to pay for everyone else's health.

[Belmanua]

I'm from a country with Universal health care and I must say it sucks.

It could be great but human beings are just so damn stupid to make it work right. ER should be a place for what its name says EMERGENCYS! Why is it always full with people with just a flu? People just takes advantage of the system making it crap.

Basically if you have the money to have a private insurance you are just paying for both. At least if you don't want to wait on looooong waiting lists and be threated by doctors and nurses that probably have been working more hours than they should because there is no money to hire more personal. Good doctors just move to other countries so they get three times their salaries and less hours working.

Universal care should work great if you live in "happy land, with a gumdrop house on lollipop lane!"

[Taroth]

Haha I wonder how many Americans put the last one.

[palo god]

Haha I wonder how many Americans put the last one.

Half the people that voted probably arent even American.

[Titus Ultor]

Universal health care would only be even vaguely acceptable to me if tax rates for the health system varied based on your health.

I'm sure as hell not paying as much for healthcare as some 300 pound dumb ass who eats fast food three meals a day and will have to have constant surgery on their heart to survive past 55.

[Killuminati]

I enjoyed my last totally tax funded visit to the dentist today.

How many teeth did you lose?

[Khumash-Gor]

i have no idea. i never go to the doctor

[Drohn Moharri]

Your view of quality is very narrow. If you are talking about 1 single case of something, America is the top of the world. However, for chronically ill patients, America ranks near the bottom of care. We make more mistakes than most other countries, our systems are old as fuck and outdates leading to lost information and lost time and high risk to patients. But even then it is not 100% of the time.

So sure, if you know exactly what the problem is America is your best bet to get it fixed. . . but there is a lot more to quality care than that.


2 weeks? I live right outside of NYC and while I could get to see a doctor today or tomorrow for non-emergency reasons, to see good doctors 2 weeks is not all that long of a wait.


Which, bang for the buck, is a hell of a lot more than you get in America.

Don't get me wrong, I am not bashing the American system. . . it has its strengths but it certainly has its weaknesses as well.

Can you cite your information please?

[Lysandor]

I'm fine with universal healthcare and other social programs...if I can opt out of them and keep my money instead.

[Salo]

The socialised medicine system kind of relies on everybody paying in :P

Peope are free to spend additional money on private care if they so wish.

[Lacker]

America healthcare system: Costs a fuckton.
Is it below standards? No. But costs a fuckton.
Why are American in such poor health in comparison to the rest of the world? People already have no money and live paycheck to pay check. They can't afford preventive medicine, checkups, and tests.


Theres more then enough documentaries and paper studies out there. Have fun.

Personally I find the whole thing overpaid, overcomplicated, and overly stupid. My girlfriend sliced her hand one day and I had to drive her a county away just to get to a sponsored clinic so I didn't have to pay out the ass.

[Salo]

America healthcare system: Costs a fuckton.
Is it below standards? No. But costs a fuckton.
Why are American in such poor health in comparison to the rest of the world? But people already have no money and live paycheck to pay check. They can't afford preventive medicine, checkups, and tests.


Theres more then enough documentaries and paper studies out there. Have fun.

Personally I find the whole thing overpaid, overcomplicated, and overly stupid. My girlfriend sliced her hand one day and I had to drive her a county away just to get to a sponsored clinic so I didn't have to pay out the ass.

What do you think the solution is, Lacker? I mean, do you think it is possible to mitigate those problems without going down the route of socialised/universal healthcare system?

[Lacker]

What do you think the solution is, Lacker? I mean, do you think it is possible to mitigate those problems without going down the route of socialised/universal healthcare system?


We could. But that would require having competitive pricing of medical services and goods. As it stands now hospitals and insurance companies charge whatever they want. Medicare is fucked exactly for this reason.

[Lysandor]

The socialised medicine system kind of relies on everybody paying in :P

Peope are free to spend additional money on private care if they so wish.

Which is why I'm against it. You either give me the option to opt out, or you don't institute it.

[Kagetora8151]

I can only mimic what has been said. It is expensive, but we have a great health care. I don't have insurance, and guess what, I vote that it is awesome. I don't even go to the doctor. When I get insurance here in the next couple months, I still won't go to the doctor, unless its something I really can't deal with.

EDIT: This too..
I'm always amazed at how many folks who don't live in the US are so concerned about things going on here that do not concern them at all.

Say OP, how are the frauleins tits in Germany these days? Are they big, are they small? Can they crush beer cans with them?

[losinglife]

so far i have no quarells with it

[Bloody blade]

When I broke my arm when I was five, i was in the emergency room waiting room for 2 hours before they could help me. I sat in an uncomfortable chair, and by the time the doctor helped me, my arm didn't hurt anymore.

[Silverhandorder]

This poll sucks.

[Drunkenork]

Please be more specific...what am I supposed to have issue with?

1) Doctors - best in world
2) Hospital Quality - best in world
3) Costs - bad like everywhere else
4) Availability - excellent, if you work for a living. Poor, if you depend on my tax

The only thing bad about it is that we have a federal law that we cannot turn anyone away at the emergency room. That means illegal immigrants with no insurance can get free treatment with my tax $$ even if the situation isn't an emergency. Maybe they just have a cough and a runny nose. Because of this there are hospitals in Arizona, Nevada, and Texas that have gone bankrupt.

If you are baiting us into a conversation about Universal Health Care, you can stop right there. Universal care wold lower the quality of care because costs would have to be managed. You would no longer get to choose the best doctors because those decisions would be made for you.

Amen

[ikhoefnix]

if you have a decent job it comes with healthcare