mutantmagnet
09-08-2008, 12:39 AM
For all the talk about player freedom being provided in Darkfall it's curious that PvE interaction looks like it will be very static. What they are doing combat wise is a refreshing change of pace but storyline or politics wise...
If the game does really well (i.e. it outperforms Eve Online in subscription growth rate and raw numbers within two years) the devs should reexamine how they are doing pve.
Currently the alignment system doesn't exist to change how players interact with npcs and to help examine lore behind their existence. Instead it exists as a mechanism to make pvp more enjoyable for all and to make pve more accesible to those who are afraid of being ganked while doing quests.
Alignment should be left alone as is but a mechanism should be in place that adds rewards and consequences for working with certain npcs.
The reward/reward system I'm thinking of so far are the ability to have governmental control over players and npcs. With this control players can choose from an array of governmental archtypes to influence the player population.
I thought of example for all of the races but to be brief and to really focus on the concept moreso than the details I will only list two of them.
-------------------Begin Example-----------------------
Mirdain
introvert - traditionalist
Beaurcracy grows enforcing the status quo
Gain access to scourer npcs.
-Insert penalty here-
introvert - reformer
Beaurocracy still grows revising old traditions in the face of internal threats.
Gain access to Wisp of Winds.
-Insert penalty here-
extrovert - frontiersman
The Mirdain take a greater interest in the affairs of all races and work on spreading what
they want to teach.
Gain access to entertainer npcs.
-Insert penalty here-
extrovert - conquerer
The elves take a more proactiv world scouring evil when faced with it and placing a firmer
hand on guiding the more agreeable peoples of each race.
Gain access to negotiator npcs
-Insert penalty here-
Dwarves change status from neutral to tempermental.
Humans change status from friendly to neutral.
Mahrim change status from hostile to tempermental.
-Insert penalty here-
Dwarves
introvert - traditionalist,
Dwarves resume their previous isolationist and protectionist policies prior to King Sigurd's
reforms.
Gain acces to artisan npcs
Non dwarf goods sold by dwarves are taxed, any goods imported by non dwarves are heavily taxed.
introvert - reformer
They examine what they've learned and developed so far and speculate on their future prospects
and make corrections as needed.
Gain acces to teamster npcs.
-Insert penalty here-
extrovert - frontiersman
They accelerate on the ideas originally fostered by the king and are more exhubrant in
exploring the world around them.
Gain access to negotiator npcs.
-Insert penalty here-
extrovert - conquerer
Heedless of the selfish whims of the other races the dwarven people agressively reconstruct
Agon into a more industrious world.
Gain access to World Crafters.
-Insert penalty here-
[b]Quests should be redesigned so that players are directly competing with each other trying to achieve the goals of the npcs they work on behalf of
-------------------End Example-------------------------
As you can see each race would have basic choices. Each choice will give your race access to a single specialist npc. These Npcs come from a common pool of specialists so they may be repeated among races like the Negotiator npc reappeared for both Dwarves and Elves.
Besides the specialists each race has a racial npc that gives extra flavor to the race's identity. The racial for Dwarves were "World Crafters" and the Mirdain, "Wisps of Wind"
In addition a penalty is always applied but I had a hard time (and wasting a bunch of it) just thinking of npcs so I really didn't want to put effort into penalties. Lastly I propose that by choosing a certain type of government shifts the alliance lines of races.
While I won't explain the npcs I will explain what I meant by tempermental status as opposed to neutral.
Tempermental - This is a fourth alignment state that is splits a race's poplation acceptance of another race among friendly and hostile. If an individual npc doesn't like your race they'll most likely attack you immediately and you could gain alignment off of them. If an individual npc likes you then attacking them will make you lose alignment.
If you attack an individual friendly to your race while npcs hostile to your race are nearby they most likely won't interfere. If you attack hostile individuals while firendly npcs are nearby the same thing can occur.
Neutral - This alignment state should be revised so that in general races neutral to each
other initially lose alignment for starting a fight AND killing the agressee, but for a short period of time th aggressor is fair game for the players and npcs of the same race as the aggressee.
Note: when an alignment status changes for one race it happens both ways.
So through these governmental systems players can run the examine the benefits of altering the alliance outlook with other races. They can also examine the risk and rewards of focusing on influencing players to stay within the borders of their race or to try and go beyond their lands.
NPC/Player Governance doesn't have to be the only way for players to influence npc factions.
I think their should exist special npcs for every race playable and nonplayable that players could turn to and do quests that allows them to change their allegiances. There should also exist a group of NPCs and players enlisted by these npcs to catch these traitors in the act.
Lastly I think players should compete with each other for npcs as a resource.
Meaning that the availbility of purchaseable merchants, gathers and guards should be limited and be affected by how well players promote the agenda of their faction. This could also include my idea of specialist NPCs but instead of affecting how much of a flat number exist at any given time what's affected is how frequently the specialists are spawned over a period of time.
Players from the same race compete with each other by promoting the agenda of their chosen subfaction. This promotion influences how the npcs regard players and offer their support in allowing those to gain control of the government. Players from different races compete with each other by trying to stifle the population health of the npcs of other races.
The simplest way to have this happen from my perspective is to design quests with pvp in mind so the players themselves are fighting each other to proote the agendas of their race over others so they can gain strength and their enemies can be weakened.
-------------
Well that's a summary of the thoughts in my head so far. I'm always interested in a good storyline and Darkfall might provide that with it's pve but that is what all their competitors try to attempt. Last time I saw shifting political lines and the ability to interact with npcs that indirectly players was never and I think Darkfall would gain a lot by following up on an idea like this just like the ideas they've had on pvp.
I posted this in roleplaying section because I wanted it to go through possible vetting and revisement process before submitting it in Advanced discussions. Additionally it dawned on me half way through thinking of this stuff that it has a lot to do with promoting roleplaying even if that wasn't my original intent and I wanted to gauge your reaction to my ideas and see what you specifically wanted to contribute in revising these ideas and their presentation.
If the game does really well (i.e. it outperforms Eve Online in subscription growth rate and raw numbers within two years) the devs should reexamine how they are doing pve.
Currently the alignment system doesn't exist to change how players interact with npcs and to help examine lore behind their existence. Instead it exists as a mechanism to make pvp more enjoyable for all and to make pve more accesible to those who are afraid of being ganked while doing quests.
Alignment should be left alone as is but a mechanism should be in place that adds rewards and consequences for working with certain npcs.
The reward/reward system I'm thinking of so far are the ability to have governmental control over players and npcs. With this control players can choose from an array of governmental archtypes to influence the player population.
I thought of example for all of the races but to be brief and to really focus on the concept moreso than the details I will only list two of them.
-------------------Begin Example-----------------------
Mirdain
introvert - traditionalist
Beaurcracy grows enforcing the status quo
Gain access to scourer npcs.
-Insert penalty here-
introvert - reformer
Beaurocracy still grows revising old traditions in the face of internal threats.
Gain access to Wisp of Winds.
-Insert penalty here-
extrovert - frontiersman
The Mirdain take a greater interest in the affairs of all races and work on spreading what
they want to teach.
Gain access to entertainer npcs.
-Insert penalty here-
extrovert - conquerer
The elves take a more proactiv world scouring evil when faced with it and placing a firmer
hand on guiding the more agreeable peoples of each race.
Gain access to negotiator npcs
-Insert penalty here-
Dwarves change status from neutral to tempermental.
Humans change status from friendly to neutral.
Mahrim change status from hostile to tempermental.
-Insert penalty here-
Dwarves
introvert - traditionalist,
Dwarves resume their previous isolationist and protectionist policies prior to King Sigurd's
reforms.
Gain acces to artisan npcs
Non dwarf goods sold by dwarves are taxed, any goods imported by non dwarves are heavily taxed.
introvert - reformer
They examine what they've learned and developed so far and speculate on their future prospects
and make corrections as needed.
Gain acces to teamster npcs.
-Insert penalty here-
extrovert - frontiersman
They accelerate on the ideas originally fostered by the king and are more exhubrant in
exploring the world around them.
Gain access to negotiator npcs.
-Insert penalty here-
extrovert - conquerer
Heedless of the selfish whims of the other races the dwarven people agressively reconstruct
Agon into a more industrious world.
Gain access to World Crafters.
-Insert penalty here-
[b]Quests should be redesigned so that players are directly competing with each other trying to achieve the goals of the npcs they work on behalf of
-------------------End Example-------------------------
As you can see each race would have basic choices. Each choice will give your race access to a single specialist npc. These Npcs come from a common pool of specialists so they may be repeated among races like the Negotiator npc reappeared for both Dwarves and Elves.
Besides the specialists each race has a racial npc that gives extra flavor to the race's identity. The racial for Dwarves were "World Crafters" and the Mirdain, "Wisps of Wind"
In addition a penalty is always applied but I had a hard time (and wasting a bunch of it) just thinking of npcs so I really didn't want to put effort into penalties. Lastly I propose that by choosing a certain type of government shifts the alliance lines of races.
While I won't explain the npcs I will explain what I meant by tempermental status as opposed to neutral.
Tempermental - This is a fourth alignment state that is splits a race's poplation acceptance of another race among friendly and hostile. If an individual npc doesn't like your race they'll most likely attack you immediately and you could gain alignment off of them. If an individual npc likes you then attacking them will make you lose alignment.
If you attack an individual friendly to your race while npcs hostile to your race are nearby they most likely won't interfere. If you attack hostile individuals while firendly npcs are nearby the same thing can occur.
Neutral - This alignment state should be revised so that in general races neutral to each
other initially lose alignment for starting a fight AND killing the agressee, but for a short period of time th aggressor is fair game for the players and npcs of the same race as the aggressee.
Note: when an alignment status changes for one race it happens both ways.
So through these governmental systems players can run the examine the benefits of altering the alliance outlook with other races. They can also examine the risk and rewards of focusing on influencing players to stay within the borders of their race or to try and go beyond their lands.
NPC/Player Governance doesn't have to be the only way for players to influence npc factions.
I think their should exist special npcs for every race playable and nonplayable that players could turn to and do quests that allows them to change their allegiances. There should also exist a group of NPCs and players enlisted by these npcs to catch these traitors in the act.
Lastly I think players should compete with each other for npcs as a resource.
Meaning that the availbility of purchaseable merchants, gathers and guards should be limited and be affected by how well players promote the agenda of their faction. This could also include my idea of specialist NPCs but instead of affecting how much of a flat number exist at any given time what's affected is how frequently the specialists are spawned over a period of time.
Players from the same race compete with each other by promoting the agenda of their chosen subfaction. This promotion influences how the npcs regard players and offer their support in allowing those to gain control of the government. Players from different races compete with each other by trying to stifle the population health of the npcs of other races.
The simplest way to have this happen from my perspective is to design quests with pvp in mind so the players themselves are fighting each other to proote the agendas of their race over others so they can gain strength and their enemies can be weakened.
-------------
Well that's a summary of the thoughts in my head so far. I'm always interested in a good storyline and Darkfall might provide that with it's pve but that is what all their competitors try to attempt. Last time I saw shifting political lines and the ability to interact with npcs that indirectly players was never and I think Darkfall would gain a lot by following up on an idea like this just like the ideas they've had on pvp.
I posted this in roleplaying section because I wanted it to go through possible vetting and revisement process before submitting it in Advanced discussions. Additionally it dawned on me half way through thinking of this stuff that it has a lot to do with promoting roleplaying even if that wasn't my original intent and I wanted to gauge your reaction to my ideas and see what you specifically wanted to contribute in revising these ideas and their presentation.