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View Full Version : CC & Interupts...and random thoughts


Ocoma
09-07-2008, 10:05 PM
Disclaimer: TL;DR version at bottom :)

The following post makes reference to other videogames in existence, by doing so the OP is not in any way trying to imply that Darkfall(DF) is "like this or that game"; the OP is merely pointing out similar game mechanics to illustrate their pt...ie don't freek out cause I'm comparing sheit. :ohno:


Post:
After watching that video I starting thinking about what Crowd Control(CC) DF has implemented and what type of Interupt code for their spell/skill/archer lines. A search of this thread only yielded 3 results for interupt and none where directed at it specifically. I also had an idea for a spell/ability line dealing with vehicles but will get to that in a bit.

CC & Interrupt: During the video I didn't see anything that screamed to me it was a spell being straight stopped/interrupted. I did see some people that looked like they were holding spells ready to fire while in motion, and I saw archers firing on the move. To me this suggests that DF does not have a hard interrupt system like the one in Dark Age of Camelot(DAoC). An old dev quote mentions a skill that allows magic on the move, just as a note its old but that appears to be verified now. It is currently unclear however there indeed is some type of interrupt or offensive casting/skill use slowdown system. Also mentioned at one pt was that spells had a fail chance, but we don't know if we can increase that chance in others through ranged offensive spells/abilities, I do think there may have been reference to using melee to cause a long casting spell to fail.

I also am not sure I saw any particular CC spells/abilities. Now one thing that has to be pointed on first is the impact of Collision Detection(CD) on the requirement for heavy CC. Most the games everyone is already use to did not have CD...therefore they required multiple and usually long lasting forms of CC in order to have people be able to handle sheer numbers. At times this has the unfortunate side effect of upsetting some people while their characters just stand there mezzed/stunned/rooted/whatnot. CD is a natural form of CC in itself in that formations/bottlenecks/ect allow the players to direct and manipulate flows of traffic. Now some traditional CC abilities will still be required, but not nearly to the extent they are in other games. We have seen one primary new CC ability the "knockback". That is an extremely effective tool right there. I am wondering though if it has any "interrupt/spell/skill fail" effect as well or if players can fire their own spells right after they land.

IMO I would like see some type of the following and "immunity"(if thats in game even) of time = to spell effect. Roots are generally balanced and useful. Mezzes and stuns, if in, should be short duration imo. Snares could be useful and balanced as well. The idea is obviously to decrease the about of time players are able to do nothing but stare at the screen and watch themselves die, while still leaving varied other andviable CC options in addition to knockbacks.

Random Idea: Just something else that could be fun to add later if nothing like it is in...nothing worth game delays imo. What about having offensive skills/abilities in crafting skill trees? Let me explain. We've seen some rather impressive vehicular abilities in the video, a variety of water and land based models. Not knowing yet what specific skill/craft line enables one to build those, lets just say the ships are made by shipwrights and the warhulks by siegecrafters. Basically the idea is that crafters that can make each item would also know how best to damage/sabotage it. Somewhere in the crafting skill lines can also be spells and abilities that are offensive in nature and used against ships and warhulks ect. I was originally thinking most specifically about vehicle CC possibilities like snares/roots ect but there could be obvious straight damage skills and others even.



TL;DR: Since DF has Collision Detection what kind of CC and Interrupt sytems are you hopeful for and what do we know for sure at this pt on those....and what do you think about ofensive abilities/spells found in crafting lines that are used against vehicles?

Drahx
09-07-2008, 10:27 PM
It's a pre-release video..................

at least wait till open beta before posting this stuff..................

Triston
09-07-2008, 10:36 PM
I think some crafted items that help against vehicles are cool. Nothing destructive, but CC on vehicles, like maybe an substance that slows them down.

amade
09-07-2008, 10:43 PM
If against vehicles it should be called VC instead of CC ;-) (or more accurately, Anti-Mechanized Infantry Control/Countermeasure)
Or maybe we should just take the modern approach and develop anti-tank weapons. Or have the ability to build dragons teeth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon%27s_teeth_(fortification)).

Devant
09-07-2008, 11:01 PM
I do not expect different CCs than other MMORPGs. Your typical ensnare, a sleep, the push spell we saw on the video, a slow, that kind of stuff.

Requiamer
09-07-2008, 11:44 PM
Crowd control = friendly fire
interruption = manual dodging

Don't forget the combat system is FPS like, so there is almost no need for CC and interruption, since you can't lock your target but have to aim/block manually.

That doesn't mean there will be no such things in DF, im pretty sure they are some CC type of spell like slowing and else. B

Rivindel
09-08-2008, 12:51 AM
I also dont think we need spell interrups... like the guy above me mentioned.. We have no targets to cast onto for interrup ablities... I would think there are muddle spells.. or silence aoes... those would prevent/inhibit casting... or I imagine the devs have spells that require channeling and can be interrupted by taking damage.. or by being moved (hit). I do home some spells require focus (channeling) to precast.. While I hope mages have quick cast spells like short ranged bursts... the harder hitting missle spells should require a steady hand and firm footing to cast.

Lagoon
09-08-2008, 12:39 PM
My personal experience is that rarely collision detection is a true form of CC.
Then you're fighting say 5 vs 5, the're no CD stopping you. The most effective form of CC in those cases, if the whole group of 5 focusing fire on you... you're deadly crowd controlled :D
So, my advise would be not take CD too much in consideration as a mena of CC. Of course, there'll be situation where 50 well trained orcs will act like is they were walls... But they'll be rare occasions compare to the thousands skirmishes you'll experience. And you won't see CD playing a CC roel in them.

That said, I'm with you when you hope stuns, and in general any incapacitating CC, shouldn't last too long.

What I'd truly like to see, are well designed chances to resist CCs. There should be proper skills to resist them and the resist chances should be meaningfull. For example, they could betuned so that a similar skill level in the CC spell and the CC resistance should result in a 50% chance to resist it. No resistance skill should give a minimum 5% resistance and so on...

Unahim
09-08-2008, 12:52 PM
I also dont think we need spell interrups... like the guy above me mentioned.. We have no targets to cast onto for interrup ablities... I would think there are muddle spells.. or silence aoes... those would prevent/inhibit casting... or I imagine the devs have spells that require channeling and can be interrupted by taking damage.. or by being moved (hit). I do home some spells require focus (channeling) to precast.. While I hope mages have quick cast spells like short ranged bursts... the harder hitting missle spells should require a steady hand and firm footing to cast.

Casting can always be done while moving, although your movement speed is -greatly- decreased while casting.

In a PvP game like this, having to stand still is always your undoing.

Drakoola
09-08-2008, 01:09 PM
A pull skill would be nice to see. As an opposite to knockback. Like in jedi knights or scorpions skill from mortal kombat ... COME HERE

So a heavy melee skilled guy can pull his foe in his weapon range.

Unahim
09-08-2008, 01:18 PM
A pull skill would be nice to see. As an opposite to knockback. Like in jedi knights or scorpions skill from mortal kombat ... COME HERE

So a heavy melee skilled guy can pull his foe in his weapon range.

That'd be cool.
It's "GET OVER HERE!", by the way.

Bronn
09-08-2008, 03:40 PM
Didn't i read somewhere from a dev saying they won't have the typical mesmerization type spells in Darkfall? I could be wrong.



Disclaimer: TL;DR version at bottom :)

Random Idea: Just something else that could be fun to add later if nothing like it is in...nothing worth game delays imo. What about having offensive skills/abilities in crafting skill trees? Let me explain. We've seen some rather impressive vehicular abilities in the video, a variety of water and land based models. Not knowing yet what specific skill/craft line enables one to build those, lets just say the ships are made by shipwrights and the warhulks by siegecrafters. Basically the idea is that crafters that can make each item would also know how best to damage/sabotage it. Somewhere in the crafting skill lines can also be spells and abilities that are offensive in nature and used against ships and warhulks ect. I was originally thinking most specifically about vehicle CC possibilities like snares/roots ect but there could be obvious straight damage skills and others even.


?


I actually love this idea. Makes sense.

robtb
09-08-2008, 03:54 PM
This game seems to me it'll be handle balancing cc well, the dev quotes seem to indicate that cc will be able to be compensated for by the victim. when they rally off types of crowd control its always snares, roots, mezzes, and i never hear about fear so i assume they're not going to have a a somewhat unbreakable mezz the way fear is in WoW.

I really love the notion of sabotage skills that you suggested, it'll give some real meaningful purpose to the disguise skills that let one read as if he were in another guild. right now it seems those skills aside from a hpothetical midbattle sabotaging ideas (requiring hypothetical... suicide bombing skills), most other theoretical uses revolve around simply being a douche for the sake of it.

The-Nit
09-08-2008, 06:14 PM
cc doesnt belong in this game.

Corwen
09-08-2008, 06:37 PM
Once again.

Speculation is good.

But until we play the game, there is no way to tell about any of this kind of stuff.

and CC doesnt belong in this game

Yes it does.

Targuil
09-08-2008, 07:02 PM
IMO should be some interrupts like what they are in Guild Wars. Somewhat modified ofc.

Legend-
09-08-2008, 07:17 PM
How do you stop your enemy from just healing all damage without a disrupt or interupt?

dragonreborn
09-08-2008, 08:43 PM
How do you stop your enemy from just healing all damage without a disrupt or interupt?


i guess you could kill there healers:)

Osirus
09-08-2008, 08:53 PM
the devs have mentioned that CC will come in the form of disorientation effects; I would also consider blow back spell effects a form of CC.