Rare items in Darkfall

[KellorKleft]

The debate over these items is strong on both sides. I would like to lay my thoughts on the table and try making a point about these rares.
No, I'm not putting this in a previous thread. I don't feel like searching for it. Sue me.

Now, let me counter a point here:

This game needs to be all about skill. No fucking EPICZ
Yes and No. This game needs to depend more on skills and less on gear. I despised those PvP days in WoW. But gear as well needs to play an important role in the game. You would agree with me too. As it is with specific weapons that bring a higher advantage over a player. Such as a pike could defeat a horse. A bow could defeat a sword. Fireballs would be powerful against an ice attributed opponent. Etc.
In this case, the player with the rare weapon would have some advantage over the other.

TL;DR version: Gear plays an important part as well.

Word stones will be in the game. Word stone are powerful, ancient artifacts that will grant power and wealth should the player wield it. However, there are merely 16 of these stones, scattered across Agon. These items are so rare you WILL be a target if you are caught with one. No one seems to care that these are in game. So, what's the big deal?

TL;DR version: Word stones are in. Why does no one complain about them?

Next, my point here is how it will effect you if you had such a rare item. In SWG Pre-CU, you were able to become a jedi. It took a lot of time, patience, and power to be able to even take up the training. During your jedi profession, you were more powerful than an average player. (Jedi can be soloed, depending on skill)
BUT, if you died 3 times as a jedi, you had to start over. Now, bounty hunters were crawling all over the galaxy for jedi. Both players AND spawning NPC's. For the cost of power, there was the greed of others.
It is without a doubt you WILL be a target by everyone. Possibly even by some of your disloyal clan members. Players won't be going around with their rare on them, killing anyone they see. That would reveal themselves as easy picking.

TL;DR version: You're a target. RUN.

This is my most important point. When I say a rare item, I don't mean some purple powerful weapon that increases strength by 600 and does 46293486239 damage, and can be looted off a specific boss in a dungeon known by all in a game with a very small collection of raid dungeons.
No, I'm talking about items that define rare. You would be one of the luckiest men alive to get this. A chance in hell from a boss? Maybe. Lying somewhere on a pedestal in a dungeon in the wastelands where no one has ever found? Possibly. You never know when you will find it. No copies of it. no item respawn in a single area so you can post the location all over the interwebs. Once you take it, it doesn't come back, the dungeon may have another item spawn, but not for quite a while.
Now, I don't mean a stupid chest piece that will somehow increase your strength and give a randomly generated amount of armor.
Here's an example of what I mean.
Dracula's Curse. A single handed sword forged from steel. No attribute gain. No increased weapon damage, since it is basically a steel blade.
Take a guess as to what it does. That's right. 3% hp life steal. Every attack absorbs 3% of the damage inflicted into the blade, and transfers it to you. Overtime this weapon would prove very useful. Yet it is only useful from it's enchantment.
Here's another example:
Dagger of the Elven Kings. A dagger, of course. This dagger is not enchanted. However, it was sharpened with an enchanted stone. With it, the dagger never dulls or breaks. The usefulness here is not a legendary enchantment or damage increase, but saves money and looks faaaaaabulous.

TL;DR version:
Just read the damned thing.

Above all these points, I think the most entertaining aspect rare items will bring is the will to explore; The will to treasure hunt for these items of power.


Let the flamers loose!
I openly accept those who disagree, and would like to see your arguments.

[Rhambo]

wordstones aren't a major factor since there are only 16 of them...

I pretty much agree w/ the rest, but I think gear should only be about 10% of what helps you win, and skill is the other 90%.


This is my most important point. When I say a rare item, I don't mean some purple powerful weapon that increases strength by 600 and does 46293486239 damage, and can be looted off a specific boss in a dungeon known by all in a game with a very small collection of raid dungeons.
No, I'm talking about items that define rare. You would be one of the luckiest men alive to get this. A chance in hell from a boss? Maybe. Lying somewhere on a pedestal in a dungeon in the wastelands where no one has ever found? Possibly. You never know when you will find it. No copies of it. no item respawn in a single area so you can post the location all over the interwebs. Once you take it, it doesn't come back, the dungeon may have another item spawn, but not for quite a while.
Now, I don't mean a stupid chest piece that will somehow increase your strength and give a randomly generated amount of armor.
Here's an example of what I mean.
Dracula's Curse. A single handed sword forged from steel. No attribute gain. No increased weapon damage, since it is basically a steel blade.
Take a guess as to what it does. That's right. 3% hp life steal. Every attack absorbs 3% of the damage inflicted into the blade, and transfers it to you. Overtime this weapon would prove very useful. Yet it is only useful from it's enchantment.
Here's another example:
Dagger of the Elven Kings. A dagger, of course. This dagger is not enchanted. However, it was sharpened with an enchanted stone. With it, the dagger never dulls or breaks. The usefulness here is not a legendary enchantment or damage increase, but saves money and looks faaaaaabulous.

TL;DR version:
Just read the damned thing.

Above all these points, I think the most entertaining aspect rare items will bring is the will to explore; The will to treasure hunt for these items of power.


Let the flamers loose!
I openly accept those who disagree, and would like to see your arguments.

yes, this is really how it should be

[Realbigdeal22]

Hey think about it.If they add rare item,Wo would be crazy enough to go pvp whit it?They would be smart enough to use them only versus mob.

[DeathByCactus]

I didn't read it. I am just tired of seeing these threads so I am going to agree with you.

*example of how this game is going to turn to crap because of whiners*

Either way I really don't care anymore, fine put them in, I'll take them from you anyway.

[Thorpeyrox]

You didn't need to search for a thread discussion powerful gear, items, wordstones etc. There was one on the front page already.

http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=66090

And you were reading it ealier.


(Take into account the average 1h sword does 30 damage in this scenario)
However I share a simular view but this is my example of your blade...
Dracula's Remorse: 1h Sword, 90+ skill required
Stats: Damage 90
Attack Speed: Fast
Speciality - Dracula's Curse: 5% life steal on a hit and a 10% chance on hit to increase attack speed by 25% for 3 seconds.

[Orc0909]

I sorta like his ideas about rare items. Of course, the Dagger of the Elven Kings sounded sorta gay (as did calling it faaaaaabulous). But I get the point nonetheless.

[KellorKleft]

I didn't read it. I am just tired of seeing these threads so I am going to agree with you.

*example of how this game is going to turn to crap because of whiners*

Either way I really don't care anymore, fine put them in, I'll take them from you anyway.

If you're tired of repeating threads, GD isn't for you :/

[verlox2]

wordstones aren't a major factor since there are only 16 of them...

I pretty much agree w/ the rest, but I think gear should only be about 10% of what helps you win, and skill is the other 90%.



yes, this is really how it should be

So a guy armored in the Fullplate of Awesome, wielding the Sword of Coolness, can be slain by a dude carrying a dagger?

C'mon, 70 skill-30 gear

Of course, it stands to reason that the guy wearing the cool items would be a pretty skillful player.

[Chubbyjesus]

There will be "epics" and "rare" loot...

They will either sit in some jerks bank forever or be passed around like a skinny white dude in prison.

[KellorKleft]

So a guy armored in the Fullplate of Awesome, wielding the Sword of Coolness, can be slain by a dude carrying a dagger?

C'mon, 70 skill-30 gear

Of course, it stands to reason that the guy wearing the cool items would be a pretty skillful player.

And that dude carrying dagger can still beat the guy with the fullplate of awesome, and take it for himself if he indeed were a very skilled player.

[Angreal]

This is my most important point. When I say a rare item, I don't mean some purple powerful weapon that increases strength by 600 and does 46293486239 damage, and can be looted off a specific boss in a dungeon known by all in a game with a very small collection of raid dungeons.
No, I'm talking about items that define rare. You would be one of the luckiest men alive to get this. A chance in hell from a boss? Maybe. Lying somewhere on a pedestal in a dungeon in the wastelands where no one has ever found? Possibly. You never know when you will find it. No copies of it. no item respawn in a single area so you can post the location all over the interwebs. Once you take it, it doesn't come back, the dungeon may have another item spawn, but not for quite a while.
Now, I don't mean a stupid chest piece that will somehow increase your strength and give a randomly generated amount of armor.
Here's an example of what I mean.
Dracula's Curse. A single handed sword forged from steel. No attribute gain. No increased weapon damage, since it is basically a steel blade.
Take a guess as to what it does. That's right. 3% hp life steal. Every attack absorbs 3% of the damage inflicted into the blade, and transfers it to you. Overtime this weapon would prove very useful. Yet it is only useful from it's enchantment.
Here's another example:
Dagger of the Elven Kings. A dagger, of course. This dagger is not enchanted. However, it was sharpened with an enchanted stone. With it, the dagger never dulls or breaks. The usefulness here is not a legendary enchantment or damage increase, but saves money and looks faaaaaabulous.

That would seem okay, not too powerful, but just something that sweetens the deal

wordstones aren't a major factor since there are only 16 of them...


Ahh yes, but that could affect any number of people, ranging from 16 to 3200 (about 200 people per bind stone)

[DeathByCactus]

If you're tired of repeating threads, GD isn't for you :/

It's a sad truth.

[Ababoba]

That is how I'd like the rare items be too. Good over long period, looks nice and you will never see another one.

[melek ta'us]

yeah this is how it should be. Rare items shouldnt help u alot. They should look cool and have some extra features.

[ForzikTheFeared]

I'd say about 20-30% rare items 70-80% skill. Items people would fight tooth and nail for, and would be on the verge of tears for losing. Items that are truely rare or legendary.

[Bawlin]

So a guy armored in the Fullplate of Awesome, wielding the Sword of Coolness, can be slain by a dude carrying a dagger?

C'mon, 70 skill-30 gear

Of course, it stands to reason that the guy wearing the cool items would be a pretty skillful player.

Yes, because that's what Darkfall is all about. There will be no Breastplate of Win or whatever because it won't be worth it and detracts from the essence of the game, player skill. They've stated that the gear you get when you are resurrected at the bind stone will still be viable PvP gear, basically saying that gear will be a very small contribution to fights (10%-20%).

What I'm trying to say is; Don't worry about crying when your 1337 gear gets stolen, because you won't even have any.

[Saber-]

I agree. I know that one of my goals in Darkfall is to explore as much of the game world I possibly can, and I'm sure others want to as well. I also believe that if a person is willing to explore, and go into dangerous territory filled with traps and deadly enemies, they deserve whatever item lies at the end of the dungeon. I also agree that people with high smithing levels should be able to create strong weapons and armor as well, because if you can gain 100 levels in blacksmith, you deserve to be able to make better weapons than a beginner.

That being said, I also think that the difference between well crafted weapons and armor and ones crafted by a low level should be large, but not an impossible gap. If it just created a large chasm in the power levels of characters, nobody would ever settle for the weaker weapons and armor, which would only serve to hurt the player economy and make smithy leveling a chore.

[Silky]

did you need to make a whole new thread to lay your thoughts on the table....

rare stuff will b fine, aslong as they do not have a significant effect on a fight.

besides would you be brave enough to use it in a full loot game?

[Kezei]

So long as that is the extent of rare items, I like it. I don't want to see rare/epics be anything like those in WoW, or every other MMO ever developed.. 'Rares' that everyone can get that is all powerful and results in you being so incredibly over powered vs. anyone else would make DF just like any other MMO.

[zig17]

Rare/unique/epic/legendary items won't ruin the game. I believe it's a risk and reward for whoever wants to go for it, and adds an element of fun to the game in attempting to get them. If everything is full loot, it is a safety net so people won't get fully decked out and ruin game play. Only downfall would be if lewt.com or the like overruns it.

[DeQui]

I agree with the general trend in this thread. A full-loot game needs some degree of phat lewts. Makes the kill that much more satisfying.

[Crazy Hermit]

There should be a lot more wordstones than 16. There should be a couple hundred. Because if there are only 16 of these in the game, and there are 10,000 people in a server, then it just wouldnt really be all that fair. People would be afraid to use them for fear of losing them, causing them to bank them thus making the chancer of any1 else getting one 0.

[KellorKleft]

There should be a lot more wordstones than 16. There should be a couple hundred. Because if there are only 16 of these in the game, and there are 10,000 people in a server, then it just wouldnt really be all that fair. People would be afraid to use them for fear of losing them, causing them to bank them thus making the chancer of any1 else getting one 0.

16 iz fine.

[Signus]

I didn't read it. I am just tired of seeing these threads so I am going to agree with you.

*example of how this game is going to turn to crap because of whiners*

Either way I really don't care anymore, fine put them in, I'll take them from you anyway.

Actually, this kind of stuff was always planned for the game. Not his fault if you deluded yourself building up Darkfall to be the game of mindless PvP and griefing you desire. The game will have other elements, loot will be one of them. The game hasn't changed at all due to any whining. In fact, the most whining I've seen was about the fact that Universal Banks were in, and followed by numbers in names. Both had strong public outcry and remain, unchanged. You're a moron.

As for word stones not being powerful because there is only 16... what kind of crazy logic is that? There were 6 relics in Dark Age of Camelot, and people were CONSTANTLY fighting over them. Wordstones are the focal point of the story of Agon, they're no small deal.

[Lagoon]

I totally agree with the OP.
Of course, a guy naked with knife should die against a guy in full plate and alberd. But... This has nothing to do with rare items! A full plate and an alberd won't be rare items, they won't be common items. Anyone can equip them. Being naked and unable to use the lighter weight to an advantage (casting spells quickly, being sneaky and so on) should result in death against an armored opponent. I see nothing strange in this.
That said... yes, I'd truly love a world with ultrarare, unique, not overpowered - but with some tangible use - items. This is a MMORPG, not an fps. I like the fps component in it, but gear should have some use. Not as much as in other games, but some.

[BladyKillher]

Originally Posted by verlox2 View Post
So a guy armored in the Fullplate of Awesome, wielding the Sword of Coolness, can be slain by a dude carrying a dagger?

Maybe not by a dagger but a caster in cloth that manages to stay at range and shoots fires, frost or whatever where plate is useless.

Take for example 2hand mace fully armored main battle tank and a cloth wearing fast running caster. Caster will be 1shooted if he gots in range, tank will be target practice if caster stay at range.
Tactics(just example):
tank-don't go on the open field if facing a caster
caster-stay on the open where you can escape and maneuver

So gear that is good in one area sucks in other. Gear is good if you know how to use it.

[PKSinister]

wordstones aren't a major factor since there are only 16 of them...

I pretty much agree w/ the rest, but I think gear should only be about 10% of what helps you win, and skill is the other 90%.



yes, this is really how it should be

Don't be so stupid, if it was 10% gear 90% skill then everyone would fight naked, as gear is only giving a 10% edge.

[Llewen]

I haven't read the entire thread, so if I repeat anything that has already been said, I apologize ahead of time. One of the things that makes a game like UO so great is that it appeals to a wide variety of playstyles. If DfO only appeals to hard core pvp'rs who want a fantasy fps, I think it will limit it's chances of being truly successful, and I for one, if the game is everything it has been hyped to be, want the game to succeed, in a big way.

Yes, I want pvp'ing to involve skill, but there are many kinds of "skill", and many of those kinds of skill don't necessarily involve hand/eye coordination, reflexes, and keyboard mashing. One of the most fun things in a game like UO is putting together a "template" - one that matches your playstyle, lessens the impact of your weaknesses, and capitalizes on your strengths. That takes a certain kind of skill, and will include choosing the right equipment, and a great deal of the fun in choosing the right equipment is finding equipment that is challenging to either find, or create.

Should there be items that are rare that completely unbalance the game? Absolutely not, but I think any decent mmo needs to include items that are challenging to find and create, which will enhance a given template, or augment player skill in some way. Should DfO be an item based game? I certainly hope not, but at the same time I hope that there will be room for playstyles that include the fun involved in questing for, or creating, that special, rare piece of equipment that is just what you were looking for.

The big difference is that nothing in this game will be permanent, because death can come in any one of a million ways, and there will always be the chance that you will lose anything you have the courage to use. So the reward for using something that is "rare" needs to be great enough to encourage it's use, without creating game balance issues. It will be a real fine line for the devs to walk, which will require a certain kind of skill on their part as well.

There is also another kind of rare, that appeals to a certain playstyle, which I hope there will also be room for in this game. In UO there have always been items that were "rare", that have been highly sought after by collectors, not because they granted any special power, or were particularly useful in any way, but simply because they were rare. For many people questing for these kinds of items, and collecting them, is just about the most fun they will have in any game.

This may not be your playstyle, and you may not see any value in it, but in my opinion it is just as valid a playstyle as any, and if DfO has room for this kind of playstyle as well, the game will only be the richer for it, both in terms of game content, and in terms of commercial success.

The only important thing is however, that the "end game" is never sacrificed. I think that for DfO, the "end game", the focus of the entire game, really is, and will be pvp. Yes I want DfO to have room for many different playstyles, as long as that end game is never compromised, and that focus is never lost - which one of the things that happened with UO which has, in my opinion, clearly hurt the game, not just from the point of view of game play, but also in terms of commercial success.

[Yourcomputer]

should be a balance i think whatever happens they will get it right

[raza]

i think that all cinds of people should ba able to play this not just completely computer fixed geeks and maybe som other people

[jessen13]

Yea I def. don't want tons of epics like WoW had, but in order for combat excitment to last there needs to be a reward for winning a battle. In UO it was to get potions, regs, money, and armor/weps. These items weren't that rare, but they were rare enough/helpful enough to make your hands sweat if you were about to lose them in pvp. Most other mmo's haven't allowed full loot pvp and maybe that's why I haven't been able to play any for more than a few months. There is just no point in gathering all those cool items and using them if there is no chance to lose thme to other players. On the other hand there would be no point in combat if everyone was just using regular weapons that can be crafted or bought at your mom and pop armor shop. So I really hope they have found some balance in pvp because I can't handle a counter-strike type pvp where weapons and armor are as common as a mug of ale and it jsut comes down to who can button mash the quickest.

[Erthel]

Just to say that the division is not only between "rare items" and "skills"; there are also the common items. I mean, if you fill your character with a powerfull but comon magic-resist leather armor, it would probably beat easily a mage, but have a hard time against a melee. Items should take a big part in the strategy. Maybe when you say "10% rare items 90% skill" you mean on two equal characters with the same equipement, and only one with the rare item; otherwise, equipment should take a big part in the strategy, even if its common equipment, like it does in EVE.

[Samos]

i would like rare items. But you must still be able to kill some1 with uber rare items. It should be 60% skill 40% equipment i think. Or that the skill and tactics depends on your items.

So like you have rare items which grant you special abilities which can help you with your battle tactics.

[Llewen]

It's funny that people keep mentioning EVE, but if there is one game I would want to be compared to, if I were creating any mmo, it would be EVE. I don't want DfO to be precisely a fantasy version of EVE, but I do think the devs could, and have, looked to EVE as an example of how to create a successful, sandbox mmo that isn't level based.

And the thing that should really make developers sit up and take notice is that EVE not only continues to be extremely successful, but it's position in the mmo marketplace has continued to improve as the years have passed, which is not typical for any computer game of any kind.

[H2liveshot]

I want rares but i dont want them to help you. Just look cooler then normal weps.

[Akinos]

Guys this is how much gear will affect a player:

A skilled player with really good gear in DF would have a tough fight against four other skilled players but with really bad gear, the fight could go ether way.

So it has been sade by Devs.

[nathanpinard]

You know in a game with mechanics like this, I'm not worried even if they put WoW like stuff in this game. Even if they make it available by killing epic bosses in 3 hour dungeon raids, other clans can still kill them while their doing it :)

[Erthel]

I think that specific gear against specific type of characters will do much more than any general rare item. A warrior character with a megauberitem should not have much chances against a character that has been specifically equiped to kill that kind, with not-so-rare items, and that applies to any speciallization. If your mage is speciallized in fireballs, maybe you can kill easily a warrior with the best iron armor-uberweapon, but you would have a hard time against an archer with a fire resistant suit.

[alecworley]

You also have to remember that DF is a co-op PvP game, so equipment should have a decent impact 1-on-1, but when you start taking on more than one person at a time, skills should overcome, IMO. If you get a powerful item, surround yourself with friends or a clan you can trust (hopefully), and start taking on other groups. they will be thankful to have you as an ally, because you could take on tough individuals. as for just running around blindly by yourself looking for a fight while carrying a rare item, that would be just stupid.

[Thorpeyrox]

There should be a lot more wordstones than 16. There should be a couple hundred. Because if there are only 16 of these in the game, and there are 10,000 people in a server, then it just wouldnt really be all that fair. People would be afraid to use them for fear of losing them, causing them to bank them thus making the chancer of any1 else getting one 0.

Lol, if you want it to be fair and even go play an FPS.
16 stones for lore reasons.

[JackyD]

There should be a lot more wordstones than 16. There should be a couple hundred. Because if there are only 16 of these in the game, and there are 10,000 people in a server, then it just wouldnt really be all that fair. People would be afraid to use them for fear of losing them, causing them to bank them thus making the chancer of any1 else getting one 0.

Word stones don't provide single player bonuses, they are something you add to clan stones and then the entire clan gets the bonus.

Also combining all 16 of' em opens the path to the halls of the goddess.

[alec.james]

You also have to remember that DF is a co-op PvP game, so equipment should have a decent impact 1-on-1, but when you start taking on more than one person at a time, skills should overcome, IMO. If you get a powerful item, surround yourself with friends or a clan you can trust (hopefully), and start taking on other groups. they will be thankful to have you as an ally, because you could take on tough individuals. as for just running around blindly by yourself looking for a fight while carrying a rare item, that would be just stupid.

Yeah.

[Thorpeyrox]

Ok because I'm getting sick of this I'm going to quote you the ONLY recent Dev quote on gear and how much of a role it will play.

http://www.warcry.com/articles/view/devjournals/darkfalljournals/3070-Darkfall-Dev-Journal-24-Full-Freedom-Gameplay-and-Substance

"In Darkfall having good gear is one of the elements needed for maximizing your combat potential."

And the only old quote I could find talking about gear...

http://www.warcry.com/articles/view/devjournals/darkfalljournals/3330-Darkfall-Developer-Journal-2-The-Video

"We can see a great variety of armors and weapons being used and mixed in with other items. Even so, these are developers playing around and they don't go to great lengths to pimp out their characters, they'll just throw on whatever."


I can't find any quotes where the Devs say or suggest gear will play a minor role in this game.

Simple facts on Darkfall...

-Crafters can spend the majority of there points into 'advanced' crafting E.g. Dwarven Mage Smith

-Racial Weapons are not for looks

-Bosses will have drops

-Quests will have rewards, epic quests, public quests.. you guessed it!

-Darkfall is about the risk and the reward, without gear extremes the risk and reward are sevearly dumbed down

[JackyD]

Ok because I'm getting sick of this I'm going to quote you the ONLY recent Dev quote on gear and how much of a role it will play.

http://www.warcry.com/articles/view/devjournals/darkfalljournals/3070-Darkfall-Dev-Journal-24-Full-Freedom-Gameplay-and-Substance

"In Darkfall having good gear is one of the elements needed for maximizing your combat potential."

And the only old quote I could find talking about gear...

http://www.warcry.com/articles/view/devjournals/darkfalljournals/3330-Darkfall-Developer-Journal-2-The-Video

"We can see a great variety of armors and weapons being used and mixed in with other items. Even so, these are developers playing around and they don't go to great lengths to pimp out their characters, they'll just throw on whatever."


I can't find any quotes where the Devs say or suggest gear will play a minor role in this game.

Simple facts on Darkfall...

-Crafters can spend the majority of there points into 'advanced' crafting E.g. Dwarven Mage Smith

-Racial Weapons are not for looks

-Bosses will have drops

-Quests will have rewards, epic quests, public quests.. you guessed it!

-Darkfall is about the risk and the reward, without gear extremes the risk and reward are sevearly dumbed down

Thorp it's pointless a bunch o' nublets are so engulfed in their shit that they believe DF will be a MMOFPS where gear and char advancement are just fluff that could' ve been left out completly.

Let's just sit back and enjoy the ride o' whines when beta starts.

[Thorpeyrox]

Thorp it's pointless a bunch o' nublets are so engulfed in their shit that they believe DF will be a MMOFPS where gear and char advancement are just fluff that could' ve been left out completly.

Let's just sit back and enjoy the ride o' whines when beta starts.

Agreed... however the pathetic arguments prove to be a fun way to let some time pass and it will make it all the sweeter when their hopes are crushed.

[DaveDFF]

did you need to make a whole new thread to lay your thoughts on the table....

rare stuff will b fine, aslong as they do not have a significant effect on a fight.

besides would you be brave enough to use it in a full loot game?

If these parts of the game don't have an effect why are they in the game.... think about it logically please!!

[Llewen]

It's true, if items don't have some kind of serious impact, there's no reason for resource gatherers, crafters, or pve for that matter...

[Thorpeyrox]

It's true, if items don't have some kind of serious impact, there's no reason for resource gatherers, crafters, or pve for that matter...

Nicely put.

[Psalman]

Gear makes a big difference even in skill based games.

Every once in awhile you get lucky and loot a rare item from your PvP victim. Within 6 months, the best players in the game will all be running around in rare items. You won't be able to go heads up with a player of equal talent if he has these items and you don't.

There is one problem with PvP corpse looting though. Some people can't handle loosing a rare item. They will take it personal. If you are one of those people, beware.

I hope they won't implement item insurance. In case you are new to the concept, it allows you to prevent an item being looted from your corpse. Item insurance allows newbs to keep up with the pros, which makes the game less fun for the pros.

[Ultima Online K]

Item decay is the solution...

[Nergal]

Item decay is the solution...

You said it, and we know it´s in-game too.

[KoVexPulThul]

Some items could have class specific skills that they normally couldn't use but with the item they could use those abilities...

With % chance to cast spells/abilities on attack/on striking/when struck

or turn yourself into an innocent looking NPC when in town

[Synicall]

Just an idea how about 1 item that can b placed in the middle of a clan owned city giving a small bouness to all its members within the city walls. Once the city is destroyed or captured the item is the controled by the clan who captured or destoryed the city, Or the item is destroyed and placed as loot on some random boss.

The item could stand out for all to see, therefor promoting siege against any clan who dares to hold the item.

[arcas]

Hey think about it.If they add rare item,Wo would be crazy enough to go pvp whit it?They would be smart enough to use them only versus mob.

you can not choose between u go pvp or Pve ... u always flagged :D

[Alandar]

There should be a lot more wordstones than 16. There should be a couple hundred. Because if there are only 16 of these in the game, and there are 10,000 people in a server, then it just wouldnt really be all that fair. People would be afraid to use them for fear of losing them, causing them to bank them thus making the chancer of any1 else getting one 0.

These word stones may be owned by clans, it could be another reason for clans to fight other than for land and the like.

I think it's a good idea to add rares as long as they aren't over powered and there's only one like it in the game. We can't forget that there will be crafter's that will be able to enchant weapons and armor as well.

[Dandune]

Items need to have an effect on players capabilites... otherwise they are worthless which negates the whole idea of full loot.

If personal items have close to none effect then all there is left are pocketable ships/mounts/etc.
And I don't see a reason for a solo person (for example) to wander around with a ship in his bag.

[RavenialNoct]

Here is a thread I posted a while ago, but I think it appropriate here,

Despite my always lingering question as to why this is often referred to as Forumfall instead of Darkforum, Hello Forumfall.

I think by now everyone understands, and most hail, this "player skill=win" over "player time=win" concept. However I also think "player skill" or the statement that "Darkfall will rely on player skill." is starting to get tossed around a lot, which is only to say: it's vague. I for one am not exactly sure anymore what people are imagining when they say "skill", because skill can manifest itself in a multitude of ways.

I have seen statements purporting DF's relationship to the mysterious phenomena of "player skill" most often in association with discussions about the function of FFA loot, PvP gear dependency, and, the ever demonized through what has become literal tomes of accumulated DF forumer knowledge (aka hearsey) about the apparently singularly definable "WoW players".

So, for those using this phrase, "DF is a game that relies on player skill, not invested time." does this mean the following:

Because DF is "skill" based, can I start a new char and, by using my FPS skills (which were developed outside of time apparently in games like Oblivion, Arx Fatalis, Mount and Blade, and Counter Strike ), kill almost anyone I find if my FPS twitch skill>opponents FPS twitch skills.

I don't really think many would answer yes. I feel that gear is going to matter slightly more than the difference between Counter-Strike's AK-47, AWP, Mp5, and whether or not you are wearing body armor. This culminates into simply the statment that,

"The time between spawning and dying in DF is not called a "round."

The point I'm trying to make is that we will not escape player invested time having an impact (as there are 0 games in which this is the case), least of all in an RPG. Whether we look at this in terms of individuals or guilds, entities which have existed in the game longer will probably be more powerful. This is in fact a key element of the RPG (which has traditionally been the tale of one becoming a hero, becoming more powerful, advancing through discovery and evolution). Not to be confused with: characters who have been grinding the same raid bosses in the same instances for the most hours. The traditional single player RPG has always been dynamic because it involves a plot line. The MMORPG has attempted to be dynamic. DF could be dynamically dynamic because it could have an ever evolving plot line in which characters evolve (sandbox sandbox sandbox).

I feel that in DF to say "player skill" is to invoke something a little deeper than quick hands on the keyboard and "l337 h34d sh0T pwn4ge skillz" and that it is certainly not synonymous with, as some posters seem to be pushing, "gear doesn't matter".

Equipment variation has always been a mark of character evolution in the RPG, I do not think DF is trying to do away with this in the least. I think they are trying to shift it back to a place of balance from where it currently is in the treadmill MMO market.

Player skill is a term that balloons out therefore to encompass all aspects of a game. One's ability to manage in a dynamic economy is also an aspect of player skill, one's ability to arrange a good battlefield strat and execute a well timed siege could be called skill.

I think that the nuts and bolts of the real time fighting system will also require skill, but I don't think that it won't depend on time invested in at least a few other areas. This might include finding the right materials for equipment, learning the land (exploring), or involving oneself in the social structure which develops.

In any case, I suppose I just want to try to make clear my ideas on what "player skill" means because I was starting to find it in contexts which I feel did not do the term justice.

FOR TLDR
http://books.google.com/books?id=R1QRAAAACAAJ&dq=Hooked+on+Phonics&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result

[Warhawkz]

Lay your thoughts on the table in one of the 50 other threads about this

[St3n]

No epix - game sux.
Yes epix - game rox.
Dot.

[Khadgar]

I like the idea of magic items if they don't give a huge advantage. UO had it right where GM made items (made by a grand master smith) were equal to Force (3/5 power). People used to fight with Power and Vanquishing (4/5 and 5/5 power) items but it didn't give an unreasonable advantage and was good loot if they died.

I love PVP but I did like PVM as well with the fun of not knowing what loot may drop.

If the monsters don't drop good loot there will be less people doing PVM and therefore less targets for PKs. It would be like the days before trammel...

[Ultima Online K]

[QUOTE=Khadgar;1763929]I like the idea of magic items if they don't give a huge advantage. UO had it right where GM made items (made by a grand master smith) were equal to Force (3/5 power). People used to fight with Power and Vanquishing (4/5 and 5/5 power) items but it didn't give an unreasonable advantage and was good loot if they died.
QUOTE]

THIS EXACTLY

[Nekpouavte]

Bah... stop thinking about combat, weapons, armors......................
"fluffy" items are better rares and epic items, they do not make combat unfair, and they add a lot to the game.

Maybe a book written by some legend of the past buried deep in some far-far away dungeon, maybe some golden spoon that can be used on cooking and serve exactly as a normal spoon, some toys. Some clothes (with no armor and no stats mod) that can be only found with a strong and rare spawn of some humanoid, a rare doll or bear that is the masterpiece of some doll maker. Maybe some rare decoration to your house.

Rare equips? Maybe the weakest dagger is the most rare equip in the world.
Or maybe some lightweight tool or bag that can carry 10% more itens.

Who have a fluffy rare item don't have advantage in combat, but they will be known as "the one who have" that item.

Also, it's a nice improvement to the market, it won't be only "buy weapon" or "buy armor" or "buy something to forge some weapon or some armor", there will be lot's of different kind of items being traded.

There is just one problem, 80% of this is based on the fact that you can show them to everyone knowing that you won't get robbed, and I couldn't find in any FAQ or journal abut how common is going to be player's house.
Everything leads me to think that customizable houses (like UO and Tibia) won't be in game.

I hope I'm missing something in that point.

I know that a lot of people don't care about such thing but, they have to know that DFO IS NOT A SHOTTER, IT IS A RPG, it must have more than fighting to do.