Traditional Martial Arts

[Jathen]

Ok, so the Street fighting thread got a little crazy, so I decided to start my own thread.

Let me first send out a message to anyone on this forum who practices Karate,Kung Fu,Tae Kwon Do,Tang Soo Do, Hapkido,Aikido,Kempo,Kenpo or any martial art that uses techniques that are "so dangerous you can't actually see if they work because your partner would intantly die"...YOU ARE WASTING YOUR TIME!!!! What you are learning was created a long time ago and is not capable of dealing with the way people fight today. You WILL GET YOUR ASS KICKED in a fight. If you're style of fighting doesn't allow you to take full contact strikes to the head and body, then you are in this group.

Please, learn from the mistakes of one of the people in these videos and learn an ACTUAL fighting style (i.e Boxing,Kickboxing, Thai Boxing, BJJ, Submission wrestling) hell if you're in HS, and I know alot of you are...join the wrestling team, it's much more practical than ancient asian non-sense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-8NCJ56i5s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9983KgLFF3g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6mMtHqXyYc

[Thorpeyrox]

I completely disagree simply because the moves that are as dangerous as you've posted only make up for a very small percentage of the moves you are taught in class, one punch could kill someone if they're unlucky.

Some older martial arts where used in battles, wars and serious fights which makes them developed and ruthlessly put to the test which is why I keep my faith in them.

[Ultimo]

Ok, so the Street fighting thread got a little crazy, so I decided to start my own thread.

Let me first send out a message to anyone on this forum who practices Karate,Kung Fu,Tae Kwon Do,Tang Soo Do, Hapkido,Aikido,Kempo,Kenpo or any martial art that uses techniques that are "so dangerous you can't actually see if they work because your partner would intantly die"...YOU ARE WASTING YOUR TIME!!!! What you are learning was created a long time ago and is not capable of dealing with the way people fight today. You WILL GET YOUR ASS KICKED in a fight. If you're style of fighting doesn't allow you to take full contact strikes to the head and body, then you are in this group.

Please, learn from the mistakes of one of the people in these videos and learn an ACTUAL fighting style (i.e Boxing,Kickboxing, Thai Boxing, BJJ, Submission wrestling) hell if you're in HS, and I know alot of you are...join the wrestling team, it's much more practical than ancient asian non-sense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-8NCJ56i5s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9983KgLFF3g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6mMtHqXyYc

Boxing beats most fighting styles, and is probably the most fun. My friends and I used to box at our high school every day after school. It was always to the knockout. It was great fun until the principal walked into the gym after school just in time to see this 5'4 guy knock out a 5'11'' guy stone cold.

That little guy had some fight in him.

[Thorpeyrox]

Boxing beats most fighting styles, and is probably the most fun. My friends and I used to box at our high school every day after school. It was always to the knockout. It was great fun until the principal walked into the gym after school just in time to see this 5'4 guy knock out a 5'11'' guy stone cold.

That little guy had some fight in him.

It all depends on the person, the teacher and the situation.

[shnedit]

This thread is gay.

I agree.

And Jo Po Slong Bong is the best fyi.

[Jyibe]

If you're style of fighting doesn't allow you to take full contact strikes to the head and body, then you are in this group.


Wow. You just sound like an idiot. Fighting is about evasion, not your ability to take strikes.

[kordoyn]

Boxing beats most fighting styles, and is probably the most fun. My friends and I used to box at our high school every day after school. It was always to the knockout. It was great fun until the principal walked into the gym after school just in time to see this 5'4 guy knock out a 5'11'' guy stone cold.

That little guy had some fight in him.

This was the favored after school activity for me also, except it wasn't in the gym. We'd go out past the school property onto some abandoned train tracks. The gravel made fights more fun, like when someone slipped and leaned into a punch. We also held impromptu fights in the school washrooms at lunch. 60 people would pack into the washroom and barricade the door. Good times.

[Ultimo]

Wow. You just sound like an idiot. Fighting is about evasion, not your ability to take strikes.

Back in my fighting days, every so often you would see a high belted martial artist try that crap on a real fighter. Evade? You can try, but you will not be successful.

Plus, martial arts moves often times just leave you vulnerable.

[holychicken]

Aikido is pretty young. But I wouldn't suggest it if your goal is to kick the shit out of people. The goal of it is to avoid kicking the shit out of people.

[Capricious]

Any fighting style that restricts you to certain types of attacks (see: boxing) is not the best fighting style.

[Ultimo]

Any fighting style that restricts you to certain types of attacks (see: boxing) is not the best fighting style.

It's not the quantity, but the quality. I'm not speaking from ignorance here. I am a purple belt in tae kwon do. However, tae kwon do version of me vs boxing version of me, the boxing version would kick my other ass.

[Jathen]

I completely disagree simply because the moves that are as dangerous as you've posted only make up for a very small percentage of the moves you are taught in class, one punch could kill someone if they're unlucky.

Some older martial arts where used in battles, wars and serious fights which makes them developed and ruthlessly put to the test which is why I keep my faith in them.

What moves have I posted? These were TMA Instructors whop got their asses kicked by a BJJ guy, who didn't even have striking skills. Imagine what todays MMA fighters could do to these people.

You honestly believe 1 punch could kill someone? Way too many Kung Fu movies. Also, if luck factors into your fighting strategy, you're fucked before you begin.

They were put to the test???...you just saw them put to the test, THEY FAILED MISERABLY. But be my guest, continue to spend money and waste time and posess the actual fighting ability of a Yoga instructor.

[Jyibe]

Back in my fighting days, every so often you would see a high belted martial artist try that crap on a real fighter. Evade? You can try, but you will not be successful.

Plus, martial arts moves often times just leave you vulnerable.

Even good boxers evade constantly. If they didn't then they'd be forced to take direct strikes. That's the main purpose of putting your hands up.

I'm not going to say that a martial artist would beat an ultimate fighter. It depends on weight and skill . The more skilled person, regardless of their background, will win most of the time.

I'd take Bruce Lee (if he hadn't died) over any fighter of the same weight.

[Capricious]

It's not the quantity, but the quality. I'm not speaking from ignorance here. I am a purple belt in tae kwon do. However, tae kwon do version of me vs boxing version of me, the boxing version would kick my other ass.

Tae kwon do is shit, another restrictive style.

[Jathen]

Wow. You just sound like an idiot. Fighting is about evasion, not your ability to take strikes.

Im talking about in sparring you moron. TMA don't allow you to actually hit someone while sparring. Boxing, Thai Boxing, and BJJ...are full contact, you go all out until the bell rings or someone taps.

[Ultimo]

Even good boxers evade constantly. If they didn't then they'd be forced to take direct strikes. That's the main purpose of putting your hands up.

I'm not going to say that a martial artist would beat an ultimate fighter. It depends on weight and skill . The more skilled person, regardless of their background, will win most of the time.

I'd take Bruce Lee (if he hadn't died) over any fighter of the same weight.

Yes, but you stand differently in boxing and martial arts. Martial arts requires much more effort to evade, and ussually just disorients you when you try. That's why they have blocking. Blocking a punch from a boxer, however, is a bit harder to do.

[Thorpeyrox]

It's not the quantity, but the quality. I'm not speaking from ignorance here. I am a purple belt in tae kwon do. However, tae kwon do version of me vs boxing version of me, the boxing version would kick my other ass.

Tae Kwon Do isn't the most practical martial art from my experience in-comparason to ones such as Shotokan Karate, Jujitsu etc.

[Ultimo]

Tae kwon do is shit, another restrictive style.

Also, boxing doesn't imply you fight with boxing rules. Boxing implies you are a boxer and have that background. Combine that with no rules, you are a very formidable oponent.

[Axelator]

I struglle to tell the differance between trolls and guys that are for real when it comes to traditional MA.

[Jathen]

Any fighting style that restricts you to certain types of attacks (see: boxing) is not the best fighting style.

There is no best fighting style. But boxing is the best style to learn to throw punches with. Thai Boxing has the best kicks,knees, and elbows, BJJ has the best submissions, and wrestling has the best takedowns and slams and also teaches you to stay off the ground if you want to stand and strike.

LEARN THEM ALL.

[Thorpeyrox]

Jathen, Jujitsu is an ancient martial art so... yeah.

[Jathen]

Tae Kwon Do isn't the most practical martial art from my experience in-comparason to ones such as Shotokan Karate, Jujitsu etc.

How in Gods name can you consider Shotokan practical?

[Jathen]

Jathen, Jujitsu is an ancient martial art so... yeah.

Brazilian Juijitsu was created in the 1950's dumbass.

And don't tell me that it's the same as japanese juijitsu, I have studied both and it's night and day.

[Thorpeyrox]

How in Gods name can you consider Shotokan practical?

Blocks, punches, kicks, evasion it's all quite practical.

[epicor]

It's not the quantity, but the quality. I'm not speaking from ignorance here. I am a purple belt in tae kwon do. However, tae kwon do version of me vs boxing version of me, the boxing version would kick my other ass.

Thats cause you are prob better at boxing. And why does your school have a purple belt? is it ATA? if so, that is the reason. ATA is the SUUUUUCKS for RL pvp. its all about points scoring in competition, not real fighting. Go to a traditional school with somone who learned in korea. You will see a monsterous difference.

[Axelator]

Jathen, Jujitsu is an ancient martial art so... yeah.

Thorpeyrox Brazillian Ju Jitsu which is what we've been talking about isn't so..... yeah.

[Thorpeyrox]

Brazilian Juijitsu was created in the 1950's dumbass.

And don't tell me that it's the same as japanese juijitsu, I have studied both and it's night and day.

Japanese Jujitsu is just as good you'll learn all the same locks, throws and takedowns as Brazilian except one or two new ones I've watched BJJ the difference is very slight.

[Ultimo]

Thats cause you are prob better at boxing. And why does your school have a purple belt? is it ATA? if so, that is the reason. ATA is the SUUUUUCKS for RL pvp. its all about points scoring in competition, not real fighting. Go to a traditional school with somone who learned in korea. You will see a monsterous difference.

Purple was one step from black in my area. Not sure that all schools operate the same across the country. I gave up on it, though, as I didn't feel as though I was getting much out of it.

[Axelator]

Blocks, punches, kicks, evasion it's all quite practical.

The blocking system in shotokan is shocking and there is basically no evasion, the sparring or kumite is linear and not even continous, it's the hit your opponenet first and score a point system which is probably worse than not sparring at all.

[Lachrymose]

Please, learn from the mistakes of one of the people in these videos and learn an ACTUAL fighting style (i.e Boxing,Kickboxing, Thai Boxing, BJJ, Submission wrestling) hell if you're in HS, and I know alot of you are...join the wrestling team, it's much more practical than ancient asian non-sense.

i don't know why you made a whole separate thread... but w/e.

i wrestled 3 years in high school. sure it teaches you a little about general grappling, but the whole premise of it is NOT going on your back, which isn't a bad thing if you get someone in your guard. it's a sport with rules that don't all translate into actual fighting, but it can still give you an edge in a real fight (b/c almost all real fights go to the ground).

boxing is good, but any martial art where you're throwing hard punches can help you out imo. in high school, we boxed after school and i'd been doing karate for 8 years. yea, i couldn't do anything i had learned other than punching, but i had the strongest punches of anyone else there since i'd been punching almost every day for 8 years, and i knocked out some guys a lot bigger than me. but again, most fights go to the ground, so there's only so much karate, boxing, kickboxing, muay thai, etc. can do for you.

you need to have balance fighting from a distance, trapping, and grappling to be completely successful.

a brilliant man once said:
A punch is a punch, a kick is a kick no matter where or nder what circumstances they are thrown. What makes a Karate or Kung Fu punch to the head more effective than a boxing punch to the head in a "life or death situation"? What makes a life or death Kung Fu kick more effective than a Thai Leg Kick? What makes an Aikido throw more effective than a wrestling double leg take down in a "Life or Death" situation?

so a punch is a punch... whether it's karate, boxing, etc.

[Jathen]

Japanese Jujitsu is just as good you'll learn all the same locks, throws and takedowns as Brazilian except one or two new ones I've watched BJJ the difference is very slight.

You are full of shit, Japanese Jui-jitsu doesn't use guard work. There are no Platas, Triangle Choks, Guard passes, Sweep from the back, Darce chokes, Anaconda Chokes, Neck Cranks, Peruvian Neck ties....etc. etc.

You know nothing about Juijitsu...japanese or otherwise.

[Lachrymose]

There is no best fighting style. But boxing is the best style to learn to throw punches with.

wow, i wonder why that is. oh, is it because all you do in boxing is punch?

[Jyibe]

Im talking about in sparring you moron. TMA don't allow you to actually hit someone while sparring. Boxing, Thai Boxing, and BJJ...are full contact, you go all out until the bell rings or someone taps.

Do you read your own posts before you press the "Submit Reply" button? Maybe if you listened to how you sound out loud you'd just stop talking. Look, I don't give a shit about sparring. Your thread, entitled "Traditional Martial Arts" is about just that. MA are taught for street scenarios with few exceptions.
The vast majority of MA styles don't preach "one hit kills", that misses the entire point. It teaches you a skill set and that skill set helps you get hurt less i.e. by taking less or no direct blows. Have you ever seen a fight where no direct blows to the head are taken? I have. It was wonderful.

Before you dismiss a fighting style as "ancient Asian nonsense" (like you did earlier), you should think first.

[Thorpeyrox]

The blocking system in shotokan is shocking and there is basically no evasion, the sparring or kumite is linear and not even continous, it's the hit your opponenet first and score a point system which is probably worse than not sparring at all.

I'm not going to argue with you because no matter what I say you have to be right and for the record there is plenty of evasion but you are right in the fact the first one who gets a good hit in scores the point, it's a fair way of doing it. If you get smacked in the face you can't just keep carrying on like nothing just happened can you?

[Ultimo]

wow, i wonder why that is. oh, is it because all you do in boxing is punch?

If you think all punches are the same, it shows you have no experience with fighting. Each technique you stand differently and balance differently, your punches come from different angles, at different speeds, use different parts of the arm.

Boxing is effective because it teaches you how to fist fight, and that's what wins in street fights.

[Capricious]

Also, boxing doesn't imply you fight with boxing rules. Boxing implies you are a boxer and have that background. Combine that with no rules, you are a very formidable oponent.

I'm in no way putting down boxing, its provides a great base and skill set - but if we are talking about the best, it has to be a style that incorporates multiple facets of fighting.

There is no best fighting style. But boxing is the best style to learn to throw punches with. Thai Boxing has the best kicks,knees, and elbows, BJJ has the best submissions, and wrestling has the best takedowns and slams and also teaches you to stay off the ground if you want to stand and strike.

LEARN THEM ALL.

You just scream 16yo who watches fighting videos all day. Those styles are all useful, but please stop trying to be the forum ma sensei.

[Axelator]

Do you read your own posts before you press the "Submit Reply" button? Maybe if you listened to how you sound out loud you'd just stop talking. Look, I don't give a shit about sparring. Your thread, entitled "Traditional Martial Arts" is about just that. MA are taught for street scenarios with few exceptions.
The vast majority of MA styles don't preach "one hit kills", that misses the entire point. It teaches you a skill set and that skill set helps you get hurt less i.e. by taking less or no direct blows. Have you ever seen a fight where no direct blows to the head are taken? I have. It was wonderful.

Before you dismiss a fighting style as "ancient Asian nonsense" (like you did earlier), you should think first.

Have you got videos of any of these fights where one fighter was not hit at all throughout the fight? This isn't anime in a real fight you get hit no mater how quick you are, no matter how good your head movement is. TMAs don't prepare you for getting hit, as you dont spar. Then when you are hit for the first time you curl up in a ball and close your eyes, flinch and you don't see the dozen other strikes comming your way.

[Lachrymose]

I'm not going to argue with you because no matter what I say you have to be right and for the record there is plenty of evasion but you are right in the fact the first one who gets a good hit in scores the point, it's a fair way of doing it. If you get smacked in the face you can't just keep carrying on like nothing just happened can you?

axelator was a purple belt in shotokan, so he's basically an expert.

and... why the hell you people talking about shotokan anyways. it isn't a traditional MA! it's a competitive sport form of traditional karate. it's meant to be a sport.

[Jathen]

If you think all punches are the same, it shows you have no experience with fighting. Each technique you stand differently and balance differently, your punches come from different angles, at different speeds, use different parts of the arm.

Boxing is effective because it teaches you how to fist fight, and that's what wins in street fights.

Exactly, If you are going to learn to punch, learn from the guys that do it best.

[Axelator]

I'm not going to argue with you because no matter what I say you have to be right and for the record there is plenty of evasion but you are right in the fact the first one who gets a good hit in scores the point, it's a fair way of doing it. If you get smacked in the face you can't just keep carrying on like nothing just happened can you?

YEs you can see any boxing fight ever. See many street fights. The point sparring system dosent prepare you for a real fight because most the time one punch dosen't end the fight.

[Thorpeyrox]

You are full of shit, Japanese Jui-jitsu doesn't use guard work. There are no Platas, Triangle Choks, Guard passes, Sweep from the back, Darce chokes, Anaconda Chokes, Neck Cranks, Peruvian Neck ties....etc. etc.

You know nothing about Juijitsu...japanese or otherwise.

Jeezz but with Japanese you still have you long list of options most of which work perfectly in the majority of situations, adding a lot of new moves is great but sticking to the old moves works just as well.
As for BJJ you're right I don't know much about it at all but when I was watching some I didn't see much difference at all.

Bar chokes, Figure of Four, Goose Neck, Spring Hip Throw, Rice Bale Throw, Crucifix lock. See? I can name a list of moves as well.

[Lachrymose]

If you think all punches are the same, it shows you have no experience with fighting. Each technique you stand differently and balance differently, your punches come from different angles, at different speeds, use different parts of the arm.

Boxing is effective because it teaches you how to fist fight, and that's what wins in street fights.

first off, i was quoting jathen, who if you didn't notice was the OP of this thread, so if you have beef w/ that take it up with him. i agree that punching isn't always the same, but his statement helped out my point that traditional MA's aren't worthless.

also, if you know anything about street fights, you'd know like i said before, MOST street fights end up on the ground. BJJ is way better to know than just boxing when it comes to street fights.

[Axelator]

I think the way to settle this is to get all us martial artists from forumfall together in a ring and see who wins. If its somone who does mma, we win if it's somone who does TMA you win. No rules, to the death.

[Indah]

I want to start a training form where all you do is pick up the person you are fighting, and slam his ass around.

[Thorpeyrox]

I think the way to settle this is to get all us martial artists from forumfall together in a ring and see who wins. If its somone who does mma, we win if it's somone who does TMA you win. No rules, to the death.

Don't contridict what the poster of this thread said, if you allow us to use our one hit kills we can never do which makes our martial arts 'useless' surely it defeats the purpose of this thread?

[Jathen]

first off, i was quoting jathen, who if you didn't notice was the OP of this thread, so if you have beef w/ that take it up with him. i agree that punching isn't always the same, but his statement helped out my point that traditional MA's aren't worthless.

also, if you know anything about street fights, you'd know like i said before, MOST street fights end up on the ground. BJJ is way better to know than just boxing when it comes to street fights.

Well you just stated the obvious.

And you still take my post out of context. Go back to the street fighting page where I clarified what I meant.

[Axelator]

Don't contridict what the poster of this thread said, if you allow us to use our one hit kills we can never do which makes our martial arts 'useless' surely it defeats the purpose of this thread?

where do you live in ENgland? I'd happily meet up with you and let you try out the one hit kill strikes on me.

[Lachrymose]

I think the way to settle this is to get all us martial artists from forumfall together in a ring and see who wins. If its somone who does mma, we win if it's somone who does TMA you win. No rules, to the death.

well, since they don't teach you to kill people in boxing, kickboxing, wrestling.... jathen seems to think you can't practice lethal combat without killing your partner. hmm... i wonder how the military trains for combat, yet we don't have reports of massive numbers being killed during training??

[Thorpeyrox]

where do you live in ENgland? I'd happily meet up with you and let you try out the one hit kill strikes on me.

No it was the orginator of this thread which claimed all Asain martial arts just train their students to use one hit kills, not me.

[Jathen]

Jeezz but with Japanese you still have you long list of options most of which work perfectly in the majority of situations, adding a lot of new moves is great but sticking to the old moves works just as well.
As for BJJ you're right I don't know much about it at all but when I was watching some I didn't see much difference at all.

Bar chokes, Figure of Four, Goose Neck, Spring Hip Throw, Rice Bale Throw, Crucifix lock. See? I can name a list of moves as well.

No, most of them don't work just as well. Why don't you see Japanese Jui-jitsu in Abu Dhabi or NAGA? They aren't as effective. There is a reason why the worlds best grapplers use BJJ and wrestling.

[Axelator]

well, since they don't teach you to kill people in boxing, kickboxing, wrestling.... jathen seems to think you can't practice lethal combat without killing your partner. hmm... i wonder how the military trains for combat, yet we don't have reports of massive numbers being killed during training??

I don’t know I heard hitting someone in the face over and over can kill them pretty good. In fact I hear more people dying that way than lethal strikes, strange. I think he meant you cant practise them at full speed and power because if they are lethal you would kill each other, and if you can't practise them like that you won't be able to use them in a real situation. In sporting martial arts you can practise your techniques on each other at full speed and power.

[Jyibe]

Have you got videos of any of these fights where one fighter was not hit at all throughout the fight? This isn't anime in a real fight you get hit no mater how quick you are, no matter how good your head movement is. TMAs don't prepare you for getting hit, as you dont spar. Then when you are hit for the first time you curl up in a ball and close your eyes, flinch and you don't see the dozen other strikes comming your way.

I have an alphabetized video library of them. No, I don't. Though you do spar in some MA.

Do many black belts actually exist that have never been in a situation where real punches are thrown? But you're right boxers do it 100x more frequently.

Bruce Lee in 1972 vs. Floyd Mayweather.

Bruce Lee Wins.

What a funny scenario.

[Jyibe]

Have you got videos of any of these fights where one fighter was not hit at all throughout the fight? This isn't anime in a real fight you get hit no mater how quick you are, no matter how good your head movement is. TMAs don't prepare you for getting hit, as you dont spar. Then when you are hit for the first time you curl up in a ball and close your eyes, flinch and you don't see the dozen other strikes comming your way.

I have an alphabetized video library of them. No, I don't. Though you do spar in some MA.

Do many black belts actually exist that have never been in a situation where real punches are thrown? But you're right boxers do it 100x more frequently.

Bruce Lee in 1972 vs. Floyd Mayweather.

Bruce Lee Wins.

What a funny scenario. Its like comparing apples and oranges.

[Lachrymose]

I think he meant you cant practise them at full speed and power because if they are lethal you would kill each other, and if you can't practise them like that you won't be able to use them in a real situation

this is the reason jathen is wrong.

why the fuck would the military not just do kickboxing then? they practice lethal techniques to kill someone, because if you're in the middle of a battle, you're not going to fucking be kickboxing someone while bullets are flying by you. if you don't kill the guy in a few seconds, you're gonna die. you don't have time to punch someone to death.

[Red Morgan]

Anyone who thinks there's reason to compare "street fighting" and traditional martial arts is pretty ignorant of martial arts in general. Most TMAs practice some sort of kata, which the average Joe UFC retard sees and thinks that's what the MA is about. In fact, there are a lot of really bad TMA teachers out there who think that too, and that's what they'll tell their students.

What most TMAs do is teach their students forms, which aren't practical right out of the box. You're supposed to internalize and break down the forms, which you then use to augment your own natural movements. TMA's aren't how-to manuals that make you badass at fighting just by copying someone else's rigid forms and movements. The end result is someone who's just as free and natural as a "street fighter", but they just might have a few extra tricks up their sleeve.

Also, the whole "if you're not using full power and beating each other to death, you're not really training" argument just wreaks of inexperience. Yes, really fighting with someone is very good practice. It's also a good way to injure yourself or your partner. Some injuries never go away and things get worse when you get older. True martial artists train to keep themselves in fighting condition their whole lives, not just when they're 20 years old and can bounce back from the occasional hospitalization.

[Thorpeyrox]

Ignore all my posts before this one I guess the main point I wanted to get across is - you can't compare martial arts because the majority of them work perfectly fine if executed properly. Saying that martial art X is just better than martial art Y is absurd.

[Ultimo]

first off, i was quoting jathen, who if you didn't notice was the OP of this thread, so if you have beef w/ that take it up with him. i agree that punching isn't always the same, but his statement helped out my point that traditional MA's aren't worthless.

also, if you know anything about street fights, you'd know like i said before, MOST street fights end up on the ground. BJJ is way better to know than just boxing when it comes to street fights.

Street fights end up on the ground if both people are inexperienced at fighting. One of the biggest n00b moves is bum rushing your oponent and tackling them. It's hard for either oponent to do much from the ground. Experienced fighters want to stay on their feet (excluding some fighting styles, which you won't run into much on the street anyways).

[Lachrymose]

Street fights end up on the ground if both people are inexperienced at fighting.

well, if either of the people are inexperienced it'll end up on the ground. you think most people walking around the street are martial arts practitioners?

[Lachrymose]

Anyone who thinks there's reason to compare "street fighting" and traditional martial arts is pretty ignorant of martial arts in general. Most TMAs practice some sort of kata, which the average Joe UFC retard sees and thinks that's what the MA is about. In fact, there are a lot of really bad TMA teachers out there who think that too, and that's what they'll tell their students.

What most TMAs do is teach their students forms, which aren't practical right out of the box. You're supposed to internalize and break down the forms, which you then use to augment your own natural movements. TMA's aren't how-to manuals that make you badass at fighting just by copying someone else's rigid forms and movements. The end result is someone who's just as free and natural as a "street fighter", but they just might have a few extra tricks up their sleeve.

Also, the whole "if you're not using full power and beating each other to death, you're not really training" argument just wreaks of inexperience. Yes, really fighting with someone is very good practice. It's also a good way to injure yourself or your partner. Some injuries never go away and things get worse when you get older. True martial artists train to keep themselves in fighting condition their whole lives, not just when they're 20 years old and can bounce back from the occasional hospitalization.

i'm forced to agree strongly with this.

[Ultimo]

well, if either of the people are inexperienced it'll end up on the ground. you think most people walking around the street are martial arts practitioners?

No...but the average person that gets into a fight knows how to fight from experience. And if one person is inexperienced the battle doesn't USSUALLY end on the ground, because the inexperienced person will fail at their attempt.

[Capricious]

Street fights end up on the ground if both people are inexperienced at fighting. One of the biggest n00b moves is bum rushing your oponent and tackling them. It's hard for either oponent to do much from the ground. Experienced fighters want to stay on their feet (excluding some fighting styles, which you won't run into much on the street anyways).

Um, if you gave me the option of my opponent standing on his feet, or my opponent being mounted by me, ill take the latter please..

[Ultimo]

Um, if you gave me the option of my opponent standing on his feet, or my opponent being mounted by me, ill take the latter please..

Which proves what I said.

[Capricious]

Which proves what I said.

Go on...

[SentrySteve]

If you're style of fighting doesn't allow you to take full contact strikes to the head and body, You WILL GET YOUR ASS KICKED in a fight.

Could not disagree more. I've practiced Judo and thoroughly enjoy it. There is no striking to the head or body in judo, yet "in a real fight" (something martial arts does not train you for) I'm fairly certain I would stand a very good chance of winning. Why? Judo is all about throwing/flipping/tripping your opponent (while standing) and learning how land from these throws to avoid injury. If I'm able to flip a person in 'the streets' and do it in a way to ensure that they land on their head... the fight is pretty much done. A forcefull throw to the ground, the person's head smacking into the pavement, their skull cracked open.

There seems to be a general misunderstanding about martial arts. It's not to train someone for street brawls - it's to compete against other people in that art. There are rules and scoring... it's a competition which is very unlike a street brawl.

[Ultimo]

Go on...

Because after you tackle them, then what? In my experience, if a person is in a vulnerable position, a few things will happen.

If they know what they are doing, they will get out of it.

If they don't know what they are doing but have a cool head, the fight will end up with both rolling around like they are making out, with no real damage being done.

If they don't know what they are doing and aren't calm, they will freak out. That is the scariest one in my opinion. When some one freaks out in a fight they start doing the things that are normally unspoken rules, such as nut shots, eye gouges, among other things. I don't even want to mess with that. I don't mind getting hurt, but permanant damage is not my thing.

[kordoyn]

In a real fight it comes down to who is willing to go further, and who has less inhibitions about a) getting hit, and b) actually hitting someone. Any MA that involves free form sparring will help you stay focused and collected, and will at least somewhat perpare you for what it feels like to take a hit and land a hit.
In the end, the best way to learn to fight is just like anything else, through experience. Personally from what I've seen and been involved in, it's the person who is willing to be more ruthless who usually wins a street fight.

That being said, it's my opinion that if you want to learn some skills for a real fight train in some military hand to hand fighting systems.

[Jezrith]

If you want to learn how to fight in a real fight, get into real fights. It's not very complicated.

[Lachrymose]

No...but the average person that gets into a fight knows how to fight from experience. And if one person is inexperienced the battle doesn't USSUALLY end on the ground, because the inexperienced person will fail at their attempt.

that's not how it works... just trust me on this.

even if you're proficient in kickboxing, some jackass is just gonna close in on you and it turns into a grappling match. if you're in a ring, you have a chance at keeping them off you, but even then it's not that easy keeping someone from closing in.

now, in a street fight, it's usually not like two guys start from opposite corners and someone says "go!" it's usually going to start from very close, you'll probably be on the ground before you even decide it's time to knock the guys lights out.

[Axelator]

I have an alphabetized video library of them. No, I don't. Though you do spar in some MA.

Do many black belts actually exist that have never been in a situation where real punches are thrown? But you're right boxers do it 100x more frequently.

Bruce Lee in 1972 vs. Floyd Mayweather.

Bruce Lee Wins.

What a funny scenario. Its like comparing apples and oranges.

bwahahahaha you really think Bruce Lee would of BEaten Floyd Mayweather, do you know what Bruces professional fight record is?
It's 0-0-0.
Floyds is 25-0-0

[pookums]

What's the point in americans doing martial arts when they all carry guns?

[Ultimo]

that's not how it works... just trust me on this.

even if you're proficient in kickboxing, some jackass is just gonna close in on you and it turns into a grappling match. if you're in a ring, you have a chance at keeping them off you, but it's not that easy keeping someone from closing in.

now, in a street fight, it's usually not like two guys start from opposite corners and someone says "go!" it's usually going to start from very close, you'll probably be on the ground before you even decide it's time to knock the guys lights out.

Umm hello? I can't "just trust you" when I actually know what I'm talking about. Refer to Red Morgan's sig. I grew up street fighting. It's hard to "just trust" someone when it goes against your own experience ;).

[Red Morgan]

Could not disagree more. I've practiced Judo and thoroughly enjoy it. There is no striking to the head or body in judo, yet "in a real fight" (something martial arts does not train you for) I'm fairly certain I would stand a very good chance of winning. Why? Judo is all about throwing/flipping/tripping your opponent (while standing) and learning how land from these throws to avoid injury. If I'm able to flip a person in 'the streets' and do it in a way to ensure that they land on their head... the fight is pretty much done. A forcefull throw to the ground, the person's head smacking into the pavement, their skull cracked open.
Judo's a lot of fun. It's a great way to understand balance and distance.
There seems to be a general misunderstanding about martial arts. It's not to train someone for street brawls - it's to compete against other people in that art. There are rules and scoring... it's a competition which is very unlike a street brawl.
That's not true. There's a difference between sport MA's and combat MA's. Most schools you find nowadays are devoted to the sporting aspect though.

[Capricious]

Because after you tackle them, then what? In my experience, if a person is in a vulnerable position, a few things will happen.

If they know what they are doing, they will get out of it.

If they don't know what they are doing but have a cool head, the fight will end up with both rolling around like they are making out, with no real damage being done.

If they don't know what they are doing and aren't calm, they will freak out. That is the scariest one in my opinion. When some one freaks out in a fight they start doing the things that are normally unspoken rules, such as nut shots, eye gouges, among other things. I don't even want to mess with that. I don't mind getting hurt, but permanant damage is not my thing.

Way to confirm you know nothing.

If I have position on the ground - full mount, my opponent is essentially rendered defensless while I can repeatedly land blows to the head/gouge eyes/throw elbows etc... Lol @ "if they are experienced, they will get out of it".

[Red Morgan]

What's the point in americans doing martial arts when they all carry guns?

You can argue about hypothetical street fights and exaggerate claims of personal prowess on the internets?

[Lachrymose]

Umm hello? I can't "just trust you" when I actually know what I'm talking about. Refer to Red Morgan's sig. I grew up street fighting. It's hard to "just trust" someone when it goes against your own experience ;).

then enlighten me, how did the fights you normally get into go about?

was it that you just knocked them out before they even got close to you? were they all experienced martial artists? or were they all just inexperienced idiots that decided they wanted to try boxing you even thought they didn't know shit about it? i'd like to know.

any inexperienced fighter is going to try closing in on you, to choke you, wrestle you to the ground, whatever.

[Ultimo]

Way to confirm you know nothing.

If I have position on the ground - full mount, my opponent is essentially rendered defensless while I can repeatedly land blows to the head/gouge eyes/throw elbows etc... Lol @ "if they are experienced, they will get out of it".

We are talking about street fighting still, not competitions. 99% of people in street fights do not study a form of fighting, especially not one that includes successful grapples. The traditional ground mount is EASILY thwarted.

[Ultimo]

then enlighten me, how did the fights you normally get into go about?

was it that you just knocked them out before they even got close to you? were they all experienced martial artists? or were they all just inexperienced idiots that decided they wanted to try boxing you even thought they didn't know shit about it? i'd like to know.

any inexperienced fighter is going to try closing in on you, to choke you, wrestle you to the ground, whatever.


Again, we are talking street fighting. 99% of schmoes only know street fighting if they are fighting on the street. If you are fist fighting, you keep yourself away from your oponent in order to dodge/block more effectively, and deliver better blows. Boxing helps you because it adds structure to the fighting.

[Axelator]

I'd do anything I could to avoid going to the ground, trying to roll on cement isn't fun and his friends could stamp on you. Learn to sprawl.

[Capricious]

We are talking about street fighting still, not competitions. 99% of people in street fights do not study a form of fighting, especially not one that includes successful grapples. The traditional ground mount is EASILY thwarted.

You said: Experienced fighters want to stay on their feet.

When both people are standing there is a chance that your opponent can hurt you. Thus, if I had the option of a full mount on the ground, I would choose it because it presents a huge advantage. Actually gaining full mount in a fight is a different story...but against an inexperienced fighter, its really not that difficult.

[Capricious]

I'd do anything I could to avoid going to the ground, trying to roll on cement isn't fun and his friends could stamp on you. Learn to sprawl.

Aye, 1 vs 1 is totally different than a situation where other people are standing around - avoid the ground at all costs in that case.

[Ultimo]

You said: Experienced fighters want to stay on their feet.

When both people are standing there is a chance that your opponent can hurt you. Thus, if I had the option of a full mount on the ground, I would choose it because it presents a huge advantage. Actually gaining full mount in a fight is a different story...but against an inexperienced fighter, its really not that difficult.

Yes, we are talking about experienced street fighters, not people whom are experienced in a fighting style. But as I said, even if you do manage to grapple, good luck avoiding the types that panic. I have seen those things get bloody real fast.

[Lachrymose]

Again, we are talking street fighting. 99% of schmoes only know street fighting if they are fighting on the street. If you are fist fighting, you keep yourself away from your oponent in order to dodge/block more effectively, and deliver better blows. Boxing helps you because it adds structure to the fighting.

yes, but any schmo that gets into a fight on the street will try to close in. that's the first thing they'll want to do.

the problem is, it's usually these schmoes that start the fights. you can't just deck someone (well, you can, but if you're a season martial artist, the law expects more control out of you for some reason) b/c they call your girlfriend fat, but if they attack you, then it's time to do something about it. the problem is, you don't always have enough room to keep them off you, and lots of times the fight evolves from a push and ends up in the clinch. trapping/grappling experience will server you better in most street fights.

[Red Morgan]

I think we need to open up a sexual achievements thread to siphon off some of the bullshit and fantasy stories out of this one. It's reaching critical mass!!!!! She's gonna blow!!!!

[Ultimo]

yes, but any schmo that gets into a fight on the street will try to close in. that's the first thing they'll want to do.

the problem is, it's usually these schmoes that start the fights. you can't just deck someone (well, you can, but if you're a season martial artist, the law expects more control out of you for some reason) b/c they call your girlfriend fat, but if they attack you, then it's time to do something about it. the problem is, you don't always have enough room to keep them off you, and lots of times the fight evolves from a push and ends up in the clinch. trapping/grappling experience will server you better in most street fights.

What you described is a school yard brawl. When I would fight, I knew well ahead of time that a fight was comming. If 3 guys are walking towards your house with a brick, you know that words aren't going to be happening any time soon.

[Axelator]

I was always told if they square up to them shove them hard where their floating ribs are if they start moving in again start punching/kneeing/elbowing until they go down then run.

[Lachrymose]

I think we need to open up a sexual achievements thread to siphon off some of the bullshit and fantasy stories out of this one. It's reaching critical mass!!!!! She's gonna blow!!!!

i saw half a butt cheek once? she was 14 and had downs, but a butt cheek's a butt cheek. :(

[Ultimo]

I think we need to open up a sexual achievements thread to siphon off some of the bullshit and fantasy stories out of this one. It's reaching critical mass!!!!! She's gonna blow!!!!

Oh morgan, you is a pathetic looser.

[Axelator]

I think we need to open up a sexual achievements thread to siphon off some of the bullshit and fantasy stories out of this one. It's reaching critical mass!!!!! She's gonna blow!!!!

I once was attacked by three street thugs, they were all 6ft 5 and 250lb, I killed two, the other ran off then I proceeded to have sex with their girl friends (that were also there) all three reached orgasm, and I was still ready for more. At one point I was nailing one of their girl friends against a wall while drinking the blood from one of the thugs severed heads (I'd torn off the head when they have me a funny look).

[Lachrymose]

What you described is a school yard brawl. When I would fight, I knew well ahead of time that a fight was comming. If 3 guys are walking towards your house with a brick, you know that words aren't going to be happening any time soon.

lol... i think i see the problem here. whatever fights you were in don't sound like the "typical" street fight. street fights as i know them typically happen in and around bars or such places.

also, as someone mentioned before... if there's more than one person, you better not go to the ground or you're fucked. i was talking 1v1 street brawls, not gang fights.

[Ultimo]

lol... i think i see the problem here. whatever fights you were in don't sound like the "typical" street fight. street fights as i know them typically happen in and around bars or such places.

also, as someone mentioned before... if there's more than one person, you better not go to the ground or you're fucked. i was talking 1v1 street brawls, not gang fights.

Could possibly be the case. Don't you just love it when people are arguing two different points and don't realize it?

[Jathen]

well, since they don't teach you to kill people in boxing, kickboxing, wrestling.... jathen seems to think you can't practice lethal combat without killing your partner. hmm... i wonder how the military trains for combat, yet we don't have reports of massive numbers being killed during training??

Really, what about this:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIKCwK7MES8&feature=related

The Army recognizes that only a handful of unarmed fighting styles actually work. Currently they are teaching boxing and Thaiboxing to soldiers for striking and clinch work and BJJ on the ground.

No deadly nerve strikes or fancy neck breaks. Regular MMA style fighting. Sorry to burst your Chuck Norris influenced Bubble.

The military trains Unarmed combat the same way I do, with real fighting not bullshit death techniques from antiquated styles of fighting.

[Lachrymose]

Really, what about this:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIKCwK7MES8&feature=related

The Army recognizes that only a handful of unarmed fighting styles actually work. Currently they are teaching boxing and Thaiboxing to soldiers for striking and clinch work and BJJ on the ground.

No deadly nerve strikes or fancy neck breaks. Regular MMA style fighting. Sorry to burst your Chuck Norris influenced Bubble.

The military trains Unarmed combat the same way I do, with real fighting not bullshit death techniques from antiquated styles of fighting.

wtf is a bullshit death technique? i never said anything bout "deadly nerve strikes" i think you're the one that came up with that one. breaking someone's neck is hardly fancy, and life or death defense could be as simple as shoving your finger in someone's eye, nothing fancy about that either.

in regard to military training. yes, they're incorporating BJJ and muay thai, but they merely incorporate techniques from them (aka they're also influenced by other martial arts), it's not the entirety of their training.


In 1956, at Marine Corps Recruit Depot, San Diego, Lieutenant Colonel Ralph Hayward (captain of the Judo team at MCRD) made Gunnery Sergeant Bill Miller the new Non-Commissioned Officer in Charge of Hand-To-Hand Combat. Miller was ordered to develop a new curriculum that a 110 or a 210 pound Marine could use to quickly kill the enemy. Miller created the program from various Martial Arts styles such as Okinawan Karate, Judo, and Jujutsu. Every Marine recruit that went through MCRD was instructed in Miller’s Combat Curriculum. This also included Special Forces from all branches of the military and civilian entities. Later in 2001, retired Gunnery Sergeant, Bill Miller was awarded the Black Belt Emeritus “…for pioneering Martial Arts in the United States Marine Corps..."

[Everto]

Shou Shu's a good martial arts too, y'know. <_<
very violent.

[Capricious]

I think the military uses these things called knives.

[Lachrymose]

I think the military uses these things called knives.

wtf why would they use knives when they can box/wrestle people to death?

[Jathen]

What I posted was an excerpt from The Modern Army Combatives Program not The Marione Corp Martial Art program, they are two completely different systems. And the MACP wasn't started until 2002, so what you posted and what I posted are not the same by any means. This excerpt is from the MACP Website : http://moderncombatives.org/home/trainingtheory.html

"The reason that the ground grappling technique of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is so advanced is that it is practiced in “free play”. In other words you can actually do it, real-time, against a fully resisting opponent. It is this concept of “free play” that all of the base arts of Modern Combatives have in common. Wrestling, Judo, Boxing, Muay Thai, its easy to see the connection."

The free play which makes these styles effective is what Karate/Kung Fu lacks.


And to your post above, no one but you is stupid enough to believe that a soldier would fight unarmed if he were able to utilize his weapon.

[Jathen]

Shou Shu's a good martial arts too, y'know. <_<
very violent.

San Shou has excellent throws and suplexes along with great striking. Cung Le is going to give Robbie Lawler a very difficult time.

[Daarco]

Nice thread!

1# Its the person that matter, not the style.

2# All styles had one goal in the beginning: To win.

3# Everything change, evolve over time and distance.



The conclusion of this is that its pointless to show a video, tell a story, draw a picture about one isolated event.
And since every person is uniqe, you can only begin to imagine how different two "identical" Martial Art schools can be, even if they only are 5 minutes walk apart.

[Jathen]

Nice thread!

1# Its the person that matter, not the style.

2# All styles had one goal in the beginning: To win.

3# Everything change, evolve over time and distance.



The conclusion of this is that its pointless to show a video, tell a story, draw a picture about one isolated event.
And since every person is uniqe, you can only begin to imagine how different two "identical" Martial Art schools can be, even if they only are 5 minutes walk apart.


Not exactly isolated if the videos show the same thing happening 3 different times.

[epicor]

wtf why would they use knives when they can box/wrestle people to death?

that made me lol:lmao:

[Red Morgan]

What I posted was an excerpt from The Modern Army Combatives Program not The Marione Corp Martial Art program, they are two completely different systems. And the MACP wasn't started until 2002, so what you posted and what I posted are not the same by any means. This excerpt is from the MACP Website : http://moderncombatives.org/home/trainingtheory.html

"The reason that the ground grappling technique of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is so advanced is that it is practiced in “free play”. In other words you can actually do it, real-time, against a fully resisting opponent. It is this concept of “free play” that all of the base arts of Modern Combatives have in common. Wrestling, Judo, Boxing, Muay Thai, its easy to see the connection."

The free play which makes these styles effective is what Karate/Kung Fu lacks.

And to your post above, no one but you is stupid enough to believe that a soldier would fight unarmed if he were able to utilize his weapon.

Because martial arts developed for sports in an era where hand-to-hand combat is highly unlikely have really blazed some trails. :rolleyes:

Look, modern MA's are great, but you're downright retarded if you think styles that were developed by generations of people who were killing and dying on the battlefield didn't consider the practicality of what they were doing.

[Lachrymose]

What I posted was an excerpt from The Modern Army Combatives Program not The Marione Corp Martial Art program, they are two completely different systems. And the MACP wasn't started until 2002, so what you posted and what I posted are not the same by any means.

oh... i'm sorry. so the marines are idiots wasting their time since the MCMAP has it's roots in traditional MA styles? the army is the only ones who really know what's up apparently. i gotcha, thanks for the lesson.

And to your post above, no one but you is stupid enough to believe that a soldier would fight unarmed if he were able to utilize his weapon.

if you actually thought i was serious about that, maybe you're the dumb one. ;)

[pookums]

You can argue about hypothetical street fights and exaggerate claims of personal prowess on the internets?

Good point. Shall I regale you all with the tale of how I once beat the shit out of 10 armed thugs, using only an orange and a toothpick? That's a good story.

[Lethn]

wow I actually really enjoy these threads even though they're clearly biased and ignorant most of the time, let me put it this way. Forget styles, who would you rather trust to teach you? Someone who has spent years and years practicing their martial art and has had it passed down for generations or someone who's just basically come out of nowhere claiming that their style is the best and they have shown no experience with what they are doing whatsoever.

Honestly Jathen just think about it, because your coming across as the inexperienced person here, especially when you say that attacking someones neck with a karate chop is fancy although you fail to take notice of the fact that any decent martial artist would know that karate chops are a load of bollocks and in fact even if they were 'karate chops' they wouldn't even be called that and would work a lot more intricately than just smacking the weakest point of your hand against an opponents arm or neck and end up hurting yourself.

While you clearly do have at least a vague knowledge of martial arts nearly everything you say is completely biased and ignorant which is why I have a hard time believing you not only that you magically say your a black belt with 15 years of experience and can kick ass. Sorry but just because you say that doesn't make your arguments any more justifiable for one thing you've barely even gone into more detail with what you say, for instance, do you even know how blocking and striking works? Can you even explain how you can use someones own strength against them to throw them onto the floor? If you can't then I find your opinion rather worthless quite frankly.

Red Morgans bloody right, like I said the traditional martial arts have been handed down from generations by people who have actually fought in real combat and without any rules which just simply proves the point even more that your being really stupid about this.

[Wufiavelli]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWfXX5aQhjc

uechi Ryu i took when i was younger. But many of the older guys can break a piece of wood with their fingers, toes, and one knuckle punches like this guy does here.

Sure other karates can break wood, but do they do it with parts of the bodies like Toes, One Knuckle or fingers. If you shove that punch into any artery, neck, soloplexes you could easily kill someone.

I got the most respect for a lot of people who do MMA and take insane poundings. But for safety reasons MMA has to be based on blunt attacks. Because they are blunt sizes plays a big factor in them. The bigger you are the better you are.

Edit: This martial art also help contribute to the current Marine Corps fighting system. Also many Marines were brought it over to the US from okinawa when they were stationed over there.

[Jathen]

Im glad you see things my way now. You're welcome.

[Lachrymose]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWfXX5aQhjc

uechi Ryu i took when i was younger. But many of the older guys can break a piece of wood with their fingers, toes, and one knuckle punches like this guy does here.

Sure other karates can break wood, but do they do it with parts of the bodies like Toes, One Knuckle or fingers. If you shove that punch into any artery, neck, soloplexes you could easily kill someone.

I got the most respect for a lot of people who do MMA and take insane poundings. But for safety reasons MMA has to be based on blunt attacks. Because they are blunt sizes plays a big factor in them. The bigger you are the better you are.

that's just ancient asian non-sense! sure, he can break through wooden boards with just a finger but since he can't practice it on people it'll never work zomg!

EDIT:
Edit: This martial art also help contribute to the current Marine Corps fighting system. Also many Marines were brought it over to the US from okinawa when they were stationed over there.
you obviously missed earlier when jathen proved that the marines don't know what they're doing so this means nothing... lrn2r34d pl0x!

[Wufiavelli]

that's just ancient asian non-sense! sure, he can break through wooden boards with just a finger but since he can't practice it on people it'll never work zomg!

EDIT:

you obviously missed earlier when jathen proved that the marines don't know what they're doing so this means nothing... lrn2r34d pl0x!

Actually one of the Japanese emperors did practice these moves on people. And in the 70s i think it was one of the Masters from Uechi was in the World Martial Arts Championship. Screwed up and used a toe kick to a mans head and killed him instantly.

Also all Jathan said was that the Modern Marine Corps Martial arts system was not created till 2002. It was create because their old system was not working do to Marines getting out of the service and killing people due to the mentality that was propagated with it.

[Jathen]

wow I actually really enjoy these threads even though they're clearly biased and ignorant most of the time, let me put it this way. Forget styles, who would you rather trust to teach you? Someone who has spent years and years practicing their martial art and has had it passed down for generations or someone who's just basically come out of nowhere claiming that their style is the best and they have shown no experience with what they are doing whatsoever.

Honestly Jathen just think about it, because your coming across as the inexperienced person here, especially when you say that attacking someones neck with a karate chop is fancy although you fail to take notice of the fact that any decent martial artist would know that karate chops are a load of bollocks and in fact even if they were 'karate chops' they wouldn't even be called that and would work a lot more intricately than just smacking the weakest point of your hand against an opponents arm or neck and end up hurting yourself.

While you clearly do have at least a vague knowledge of martial arts nearly everything you say is completely biased and ignorant which is why I have a hard time believing you not only that you magically say your a black belt with 15 years of experience and can kick ass. Sorry but just because you say that doesn't make your arguments any more justifiable for one thing you've barely even gone into more detail with what you say, for instance, do you even know how blocking and striking works? Can you even explain how you can use someones own strength against them to throw them onto the floor? If you can't then I find your opinion rather worthless quite frankly.

Red Morgans bloody right, like I said the traditional martial arts have been handed down from generations by people who have actually fought in real combat and without any rules which just simply proves the point even more that your being really stupid about this.



Response to your first paragraph: Ummm, what the hell are you talking about? Every instructor I have evr had has spent years practicing their martial art, hell, 1 of them trained the current UFC LHW Champ. My boxing instructor was 32-3 in Pro Boxing and was a Vietnam vet, 8th Dan in Combat Jui-jitsu...he had over 50 years of experience, so I don't know what you're getting at. Before I pay someone to train at their gym, Im gonna make damn sure they have experience.So your saying because someone passed down their style for generations, it's automatically effective?

Response to your 2nd paragraph: I said Karate chops were"bolloks". My point was Karate is "bolloks". It's a waste of time. Martial Arts were created so that people are capable of fighting, thats what I train for. IMO it's pointless to learn a Fighting Style that doesn't allow you to actually see if it works. And they're called Knife hand strikes if you want to be technical. Good luck making them work.

Response to third paragraph: How does blocking and striking work? Umm, your opponent strikes, you block and strike back. Didn't need much experience to figure that out. How much more specific would you like me to be?

As far as throwing someone to the floor, my favorite one is to clinch with double underhooks, trap the leg and land in side control. If I didn't want to go the ground then most likely I would need head control and a single underhook then do a Tai Toshi sweep.

How do you explain blocking and striking?
How would you throw someone on the floor?

So the MACP wasn't invented by people who have fought in real combat?

[Lachrymose]

Screwed up and used a toe kick to a mans head and killed him instantly.

but thar's no such things as one-hit-death strikez!

[Wufiavelli]

but thar's no such things as one-hit-death strikez!

If you drop a baby off a ten story building I am sure its gonna die on the first hit against the concrete.

[Lethn]

Good explanation on the throwing oh but: Response to third paragraph: How does blocking and striking work? Umm, your opponent strikes, you block and strike back. Didn't need much experience to figure that out. How much more specific would you like me to be?

Thaaaanks! You just proved my point! *waves* Please go and learn about our styles before you go saying they're shit please a decent teacher would explain the mechanics behind them for you, also I'm not saying your style is bollocks either I'm saying YOUR a load of bollocks and so is your attitude.

[Jathen]

that's just ancient asian non-sense! sure, he can break through wooden boards with just a finger but since he can't practice it on people it'll never work zomg!

EDIT:

you obviously missed earlier when jathen proved that the marines don't know what they're doing so this means nothing... lrn2r34d pl0x!

Exactly, If I can't practice it, then im sure as hell not going to rely on it in a real fight.

I never said they don't know what they're doing. Stop putting words in my mouth. I said the Army has a different program. I haven't seen anything from the Marines since LINE, and that apparently wasn't very good either or they wouldn't have created a new program. But if it's from Okinawan Karate then I don't want our guys relying on it to save their lives, because it doesn't even work in MMA events...if a reverse punch doesn't work against Royce Gracie, it might not work against Bin Laden.

[PrimalSign]

If you drop a baby off a ten story building I am sure its gonna die on the first hit against the concrete.

Or if you were a truck. I'm sure a truck could one-hit kill people.

[Jathen]

Good explanation on the throwing oh but:

Thaaaanks! You just proved my point! *waves* Please go and learn about our styles before you go saying they're shit please.

You failed to answer my questions.

Do you not know the answers, has sensei not revealed them to you yet...make sure this months check clears, then he'll tell you.

[Lethn]

So did you ;)

I pay three pounds per lesson and if I re-new my license it costs twelve pounds, my sensei's ask very little of me actually and the teach a whole lot, you've clearly been scammed out by some idiot who thought he knew martial arts if you honestly actually BELIEVE what your saying.

[Jathen]

So did you ;)

I pay three pounds per lesson and if I re-new my license it costs twelve pounds, my sensei's ask very little of me actually and the teach a whole lot.

No I did answer your questions, thats why you said good answer on the throw part. Why would you say good answer if I didn't answer your question?

[Wufiavelli]

You know most people I know who have achieved a decent degree of skill in any style tend to shy a way from calling other styles Bolloks.

[Lethn]

lol your completely ignoring me now aren't you? :D Did I just piss you off then? I was talking about the blocks and strikes, you clearly know barely anything about the styles your talking about there and your just trying to cover it up.

[Lachrymose]

If you drop a baby off a ten story building I am sure its gonna die on the first hit against the concrete.

*sigh* i was joking wufiavelli. jathen's the one that seems to not believe you can kill someone unless you beat them to death.

@jathen: like red said, how can you seriously deny that a martial art that was developed for the purpose military combat and handed down through generations (the ancient asian non-sense i believe you called it) works in combat. if it didn't work in combat, why the hell would they pass it down over the generations??

[Jathen]

lol your completely ignoring me now aren't you? :D Did I just piss you off then?

I asked you a question, which you're ignoring.

[Lethn]

Not really I asked first and you decided to ignore it :p

[Jathen]

*sigh* i was joking wufiavelli. jathen's the one that seems to not believe you can kill someone unless you beat them to death.

@jathen: like red said, how can you seriously deny that a martial art that was developed for the purpose military combat and handed down through generations (the ancient asian non-sense i believe you called it) works in combat. if it didn't work in combat, why the hell would they pass it down over the generations??

You're missing my point. I don't care if it worked back then, it didn't work in a cage in 1993, so why should I believe it will work on a battlefield or a bar or a bus?

[Red Morgan]

if a reverse punch doesn't work against Royce Gracie, it might not work against Bin Laden.

Oh sweet baby Jesus... this might have to replace the Ultimo quote in my sig.

[Jathen]

Not really I asked first and you decided to ignore it :p

You aren't making sense. What question did you ask me?

[Lethn]

You're missing my point. I don't care if it worked back then, it didn't work in a cage in 1993, so why should I believe it will work on a battlefield or a bar or a bus?

rofll wow this is amazing he's clearly riled up, look Jathen just give it up leave with your e-peen still intact I'm having a right laugh here actually.

Oh and this is why you should read posts before you decide to flame because then you'll look like an idiot if you get it wrong.

[Ultimo]

Oh sweet baby Jesus... this might have to replace the Ultimo quote in my sig.

Doh, been bumped off Red's five. I need to say something else to redeem myself.

[Jathen]

I answered the question about the throw, to your approval I might add. But my answer on blocking and striking was apparently too vague? Is that what you're referring to?

[Lachrymose]

jathen, no one ever said BJJ or kickboxing or whatever it is you seem to be defending is useless or "bullocks" we're just defending the fact that your martial art style isn't the only one that can be effective.

you don't know anything about these so called ancient asian non-sense styles of martial arts, since you've never done them, yet you pretend to know so much about them. you're pov is completely biased and based on speculation so i don't see why anyone would listen to you.

[Lethn]

Thank you Lachrymose! Your patience yet again has saved me, but this time more or less from laughing my ass off at how I even took him seriously in the first place.

[Jathen]

You fail to answer any of my questions.

[Lachrymose]

Doh, been bumped off Red's five. I need to say something else to redeem myself.

good luck trying to top that one. ;)

[Lethn]

You fail to answer any of my questions.

NOW THIS IS SIG WORTHY!!! :lmao:

[Jathen]

jathen, no one ever said BJJ or kickboxing or whatever it is you seem to be defending is useless or "bullocks" we're just defending the fact that your martial art style isn't the only one that can be effective.

you don't know anything about these so called ancient asian non-sense styles of martial arts, since you've never done them, yet you pretend to know so much about them. you're pov is completely biased and based on speculation so i don't see why anyone would listen to you.

Do you want me to run down the list of the styles that I have exposure to? Why do you think I know that this stuff doesn't work? I've seen it, done it, and moved on to reality.

But I am baffled at why Lethn won't answer any of my questions.

[Jathen]

Thank you Lachrymose! Your patience yet again has saved me, but this time more or less from laughing my ass off at how I even took him seriously in the first place.

You obviously took me seriously if you agreed that my explanation of throws was good. Good god man, are you twelve?

[Lethn]

I'm 18 actually, so wait, your actually saying that all of this was a load of bullshit you decided to invent in order to flame people for no reason? Even for a complete moron that sounds pretty far fetched.

[Jathen]

rofll wow this is amazing he's clearly riled up, look Jathen just give it up leave with your e-peen still intact I'm having a right laugh here actually.

Oh and this is why you should read posts before you decide to flame because then you'll look like an idiot if you get it wrong.

I started this thread you moron. How can I flame a thread I started? You're making yourself look very stupid.

[Capricious]

This thread is going down.

[Lethn]

lol it really is :D And you can flame a thread even if you start it Jathen, I just find it really hillarious that your doing all this, honestly, your the one acting like a 12 year old here, though then again I've known 12 year olds to act more mature than you.

You sure your not just some little kid who's been watching too many documentaries and thinks he's bruce lee because of it?

[Jathen]

This thread is going down.

I agree.

[Capricious]

I agree.

Its going down with a precision 1-strike kill. What do you think about that?

[Jathen]

This thread is going down.

lol it really is :D And you can flame a thread even if you start it Jathen, I just find it really hillarious that your doing all this, honestly, your the one acting like a 12 year old here, though then again I've known 12 year olds to act more mature than you.

You stil won't answer my question. Until you do that Im going to assume that you are a twelve year old who has too much naruto and gets a ride from his parents to the dojo every day. And don't forget about the Ice Cream after your next belt test.

[Lachrymose]

jethen, did you not see wufiavelli's youtube link?

now, sure, the guy probably doesn't practice by killing people, but he can fucking break through wooden boards with one finger. are you telling me, if he did that to a person, it wouldn't do anything since he's never practiced it against a person?

[Red Morgan]

Its going down with a precision 1-strike kill. What do you think about that?

No no, see the thread is down on the ground and someone has climbed on top for a traditional mount. We could easily thwart it if we're all trained well enough.

[Capricious]

You stil won't answer my question. Until you do that Im going to assume that you are a twelve year old who has too much naruto and gets a ride from his parents to the dojo every day. And don't forget about the Ice Cream after your next belt test.

Hey man, mom lets me eat ice cream even without an achievement such as a rank advancement.

[Lethn]

Hmmm let's see, do I really want to explain the mechanics of the nervous system and the circulatory system to an idiot on the internet who I most likely will never meet in my life or even care about if I did? One thing you really fail to realize is that a lot of martial arts is based off of science even with the stances, frankly I think I just want to leave you in your baffled state right now because it's actually really funny because you clearly have no idea of what your talking about and even after seeing someone break several planks of pinewood at once you refuse to believe any of these techniques work.

Seriously your as fucking blind as a religious zealot and it's very amusing, people like you are easy to ignore because you just babble nonsense most of the time, I respect the genuine fighters in the MMA and UFC rings because they know how to respect other people and styles but you sir are just a plain douchebag.

[Axelator]

Jathen wins Lethn sucks.


/End thread.

[Lethn]

Yep you've really put absolute credibility to your name too Axelator I declare you a douchebag as well ;)

[Axelator]

Yep you've really put absolute credibility to your name too Axelator I declare you a douchebag as well ;)

I'd be offended if anyone gave a shit who you declared what.

[Lethn]

*pets* nice to see your ability to argue has completely gone now, guess we were right about you.

[Axelator]

*pets* nice to see your ability to argue has completely gone now, guess we were right about you.

We've argued and the obvious conclusion is you're retarded and refuse to allow logic to de-lodge you from this position. So lets just get to the insults.

Who's we anyway? Fucking retard.

[Lachrymose]

Jathen wins Lethn sucks.


/End thread.

i don't know how to argue with that brilliant logic. i guess you win. :(

[Lethn]

I've already looked at the logic and I already know what's right, that's why I ignore idiots like you two, oh and you wouldn't happen to be an alt. account of Jathen would you? I find it funny that you logged on almost immediately after he did, trying to restore your e-peen again?

I'm just doing this to piss you off now by the way, I hope you never infect martial arts threads again.

[Axelator]

I've already looked at the logic and I already know what's right, that's why I ignore idiots like you two, oh and you wouldn't happen to be an alt. account of Jathen would you? I find it funny that you logged on almost immediately after he did, trying to restore your e-peen again?

I'm just doing this to piss you off now by the way, I hope you never infect martial arts threads again.


If your so great and your logic is so amazing how come you can't get a job like you mentioned in the staying awke thread? I'm not going to listen to some bum who sponges off the state/parents.

Also creating posts for the sole purpose of pissing people off is against ToS, gg noob.

[Lachrymose]

We've argued and the obvious conclusion is you're retarded and refuse to allow logic to de-lodge you from this position. So lets just get to the insults.

Who's we anyway? Fucking retard.

axelator, in case you didn't read the thread, it was basically jathen trying to desperately defend the fact that ancient martial arts styles are non-sense, while he was bombarded with counterexamples, personal experiences, and irrefutable logic from several people, yet in his bullheadedness he still managed to remain unconvinced.

[Axelator]

axelator, in case you didn't read the thread, it was basically jathen trying to desperately defend the fact that ancient martial arts styles are non-sense, while he was bombarded with counterexamples, personal experiences, and irrefutable logic from several people, yet in his bullheadedness he still managed to remain unconvinced.

I read the thread it looked like a bunch of fat traditional martial art jockeys desperatly trying to deny the fact they had wasted years of their life and wages (or parents wages in Lethns case) studying a load of shit which has no use in actual fights.

[Lethn]

awww ;) I just recently got out of college actually and I'm working on a portfolio for a job, not to mention that I have myself set up with an Independent Company that's getting set up which will be making games that YOU'LL play find it quite funny that now that you've realized you can't find anything martial arts wise to flame me for your moving onto other stuff too, got any other amazing undeniable logic up your sleeve? :rolleyes:

It's quite funny actually because when I went to some mixed ju-jitsu classes even the teacher there ( who knew what he was doing ) said it's good to have at least a balance, you can't go relying on throws and grips if the person has a punch that can put you in hospital you know, you do realize you have to actually get ahold of them before you can perform your techniques right?

This really is just absolutely hillarious because you guys have just flagged yourselves as complete morons for the majority of the forumfall community.

[Axelator]

awww ;) I just recently got out of college actually and I'm working on a portfolio for a job, not to mention that I have myself set up with an Independent Company that's getting set up which will be making games that YOU'LL play find it quite funny that now that you've realized you can't find anything martial arts wise to flame me for your moving onto other stuff too, got any other amazing undeniable logic up your sleeve? :rolleyes:

How about this, nearly every TMAist that has enterted a mixed martial arts tournament has gotten their ass kicked, and mma is the closet we have to a real fight?

The fact remains, you don't have a job.

[Lachrymose]

I read the thread it looked like a bunch of fat traiditonal martial art jockeys desperatly trying to deny the fact they had wasted years of their life and wages (or parents wages in Lethns case) studying a load of shit which has no use in actual fights.

oh, i'm sorry. i guess i mistook you for someone who wasn't an idiot.

[Axelator]

I have a small penis.

Fixed.

[Lachrymose]

How about this, nearly every TMAist that has enterted a mixed martial arts tournament has gotten their ass kicked, and mma is the closet we have to a real fight?

The fact remains, you don't have a job.

whoa hold the presses.

you're telling me that a traditional martial artist can't beat a mixed martial artist at a mixed martial arts match? next you'll be telling me a boxer can't beat a wrestler in a wrestling match.

also, lethn. what happens when people realize they aren't going to win an argument is they try to insult something else about the person to draw attention away from the argument and make them feel special. for example, someone's job or the size of their penis, even if the said person has an enormous penis but obviously can't show it without getting banned. :(

[Lethn]

Oh yeah I know that's why I'm finding it so funny, these two idiots just wanted to increase their e-peens and ended up getting their asses kicked by the very people they were trying to look cool in front of.

[Axelator]

whoa hold the presses.

you're telling me that a traditional martial artist can't beat a mixed martial artist at a mixed martial arts match? next you'll be telling me a boxer can't beat a wrestler in a wrestling match.

also, lethn. what happens when people realize they aren't going to win an argument is they try to insult something else about the person to draw attention away from the argument and make them feel special.

MMA rules are the closest thing to a real fight if kung fu practitioners get their ass handed to them when playing by those rules why would they suddenly do a lot better when a few rules are removed making it a real fight?

[Axelator]

Oh yeah I know that's why I'm finding it so funny, these two idiots just wanted to increase their e-peens and ended up getting their asses kicked by the very people they were trying to look cool in front of.

I find it funny you two are metaphorically sitting opposite each other wanking each other off while complimenting one another.

When in reality you've achieved nothing

[Lachrymose]

MMA rules are the closest thing to a real fight if kung fu practitioners get their ass handed to them when playing by those rules why would they suddenly do a lot better when a few rules are removed making it a real fight?

sticking gloves on a traditional martial artist who's used to punching trough bricks, and telling him to not kill the other guy doesn't sound like much of a fight to me.

[kordoyn]

MMA rules are the closest thing to a real fight if kung fu practitioners get their ass handed to them when playing by those rules why would they suddenly do a lot better when a few rules are removed making it a real fight?

It's possible. MMA rules are actually quite restrictive when compared to a real fight. For instance, someone who is a judo practitioner would have an easy time taking down someone who doesn't know how to defend against any take downs (aka typical joe) at which point in a real fight judo man could very well kick the guy in the skull, where as in MMA the take down turns into grappling.

[Axelator]

sticking gloves on a traditional martial artist who's used to punching trough bricks, and telling him to not kill the other guy doesn't sound like much of a fight to me.

So you beleive punching through bricks which is essentially a stage trick translates into being able to kill people with your fists?

BEsides killing isnt against the rules as long as you use techniques within the rules to kill them. If a TMA punched somone with their tremendous exposive punches that they have developed through punching bricks (lol) and that person died, the TMAist would win the fight.

I'm not seeing any point here. Just ignorance.

[Lethn]

ditto that Lachrymose, I actually found it pretty restrictive to fight when I did mixed ju-jitsu sparring it was like "Don't hit directly in the face"... WHAT?! Not only that the gloves were like boxing gloves designed for doing jabbing and stuff so that caused a few more problems than I needed.

Also Axelator we don't need to achieve anything, because we already won in the first place when you lot decided to act arrogant and make yourselves look like a bunch of fools.

[Axelator]

It's possible. MMA rules are actually quite restrictive when compared to a real fight. For instance, someone who is a judo practitioner would have an easy time taking down someone who doesn't know how to defend against any take downs (aka typical joe) at which point in a real fight judo man could very well kick the guy in the skull, where as in MMA the take down turns into grappling.

Not always, in pride you were allowed to kick a downed opponent anywhere and TMAist still got their asses handed to them over there. See some of wanderlei silvas fights in pride he was known for kicking and stomping downed opponents. He did Vale Tudo.

[Axelator]

ditto that Lachrymose, I actually found it pretty restrictive to fight when I did mixed ju-jitsu sparring it was like "Don't hit directly in the face"... WHAT?! Not only that the gloves were like boxing gloves designed for doing jabbing and stuff so that caused a few more problems than I needed.

Also Axelator we don't need to achieve anything, because we already won in the first place when you lot decided to act arrogant and make yourselves look like a bunch of fools.

We're fools in your eyes only. Also you are allowed to punch people directly in the face in mma I don't know what mcdojo you went too. The gloves give you plenty of dexterity in your hands, I have some and I know so don't bullshit me.

[Lachrymose]

So you beleive punching through bricks which is essentially a stage trick translates into being able to kill people with your fists?

uh, a stage trick? so that's why monks in secluded mountains practice this, it's all about the oohs and aahs i guess and not about conditioning their hands? so i guess muay thai fighters kick banana trees just for kicks and not to condition their shins?

at least jathen had a little more sense than you. he brought up some good points here and there. but you... it's like talking to a toddler. please stop saying things that you obviously have no idea about.

[Axelator]

uh, a stage trick? so that's why monks in secluded mountains practice this, it's all about the oohs and aahs i guess and not about conditioning their hands? so i guess muay thai fighters kick bamboo trees just for kicks and not to condition their shins?

at least jathen had a little more sense than you. he brought up some good points here and there. but you... it's like talking to a toddler. please stop saying things that you obviously have no idea about.

There are a lot easier and less expensive ways to condition your fists, like banana teees as you mentioned. Or even better a heavy bag which is what most modern thai boxing gyms use. In fact if you are in a real confrontation make sure you have something in your fist for support or use the palm of your hand because otherwise you will break your fist.

Yeah your right these monks are into show business are they....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JgMmj4XnEI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFzYRuuxPLk&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfyisvAJOFE&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0ryYUrgbV8&feature=related

They sold out long ago. Also if you saw the monks rioting a while back they wern't using Kung fu they were just brawling.

Just ask yourself why would they break bricks when they can hit a stoen wall and condition their fists? It's exactly all about the ooh's and ahh's because that's how they make a living.

[Lachrymose]

There are a lot easier and less expensive ways to condition your fists, like banana teees as you mentioned. Or even better a heavy bag which is what most modern thai boxing gyms use. In fact if you are in a real confrontation make sure you have something in your fist for support or use the palm of your hand because otherwise you will break your fist.

Yeah your right these monks are into show business are they....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JgMmj4XnEI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFzYRuuxPLk&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfyisvAJOFE&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0ryYUrgbV8&feature=related

They sold out long ago. Also if you saw the monks rioting a while back they wern't using Kung fu they were just brawling.

Just ask yourself why would they break bricks when they can hit a stoen wall and condition their fists? It's exactly all about the ooh's and ahh's because that's how they make a living.

please don't show me the shaolin monks or some other street performers, as that's obviously not what i mean.

as a matter of fact, some of them DO hit stones. watch the human weapon episode on karate and they show the guys just sitting around a huge stone hitting it. sure, there's some showboats out there, i've seen people light brick on fire and punch through them, in that case it's obviously just for show, but the reason people started doing it in the first place absolutely wasn't and if you don't realize that i can't even argue anymore since it's like arguing with a 6 year old autistic on mescaline.

also,
Since we apparantly have a lot of martial artists here I was wondering what you guys thought of this. Any of you who follow MMA at all will know who this guy is. WHat do you guys who do traditional martial artists think of this...
i'm a little curious as to why you'd ask for the opinion of traditional martial artists, if you seem to find their methods nonsensical?

[Lethn]

Awwww :D running out of actual facts now are we?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwk6pkjiAB0 yeahhh it's REALLY impractical, I love how you failed to type in traditional in your search.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QlcF8KUEY8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lm_7uOMuIeE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkFdfi5O7v8&feature=related

You seriously need to quit now Axelater :) And yep, you both asked for our opinions and you got it, either piss off or respect it.

Oh and your not going to seriously say that a sword or a staff can't break through human bone are you? LOL :p

[Axelator]

i'm a little curious as to why you'd ask for the opinion of traditional martial artists, if you seem to find their methods nonsensical?

I haven't asked for anyones opinion on this thread, you are always ahvignt o defend your martial art you never make any counter points all you do is defend and insult it's laughable. :lmao:

[Lachrymose]

I haven't asked for anyones opinion on this thread, you are always ahvignt o defend your martial art you never make any counter points all you do is defend and insult it's laughable. :lmao:

wait. i think you have things backwards. me (along with several others) did provide our counterpoints earlier in this thread, you just weren't there, and i don't want to repeat them again. also, if anyone's insulting anyone, it's you since you're the one who originally brought up lethn's career as well as that zinger about me having a small penis.

and yes, you didn't ask for anyone's opinion on this thread. are you really so stupid that you can't even remember your own thread? you're even getting so flustered now you can't even type correctly. i think you should stop.

[Axelator]

Awwww :D running out of actual facts now are we?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwk6pkjiAB0 yeahhh it's REALLY impractical, I love how you failed to type in traditional in your search.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QlcF8KUEY8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lm_7uOMuIeE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkFdfi5O7v8&feature=related

You seriously need to quit now Axelater :) And yep, you both asked for your opinions and you got it, either piss off or respect it.

Oh and your not going to seriously say that a sword or a staff can't break through human bone are you? LOL :p


I am really beginning to think you’re winding me up, and trolling. Ill play ball.

You tell me these are examples of how it's practical.

The first video is of a mass sword kata (which is essentially a dance) katas are the bane of any serious martial art, they are useless when it comes to fighting, not to mention who carries a sword around with them

second video is much the same as the first.

Third is a choreographed fight scene and the same goes for the fourth.

Strange how there are no videos of monks actually free style sparring. They don’t do it and that’s why they would fail in a fight against a well rounded mma practitioner.

[Lethn]

Lachrymose the most hillarious part about all of this is that I'm actually picking a career that could earn me millions if I work hard enough :p

Do you even KNOW what free style sparring is? You use no gloves, no headgear and there are no rules, you are just making yourself look more and more laughable by the minute, in fact I think you've reached the level of imbecile now because by saying your styles have real fighting in them is ridiculous.

Just admit it, you got your ass handed to you, I'm amazed this has gone on as long as it has, good thing I'm used to staying up late.

[Axelator]

wait. i think you have things backwards. me (along with several others) did provide our counterpoints earlier in this thread, you just weren't there, and i don't want to repeat them again. also, if anyone's insulting anyone, it's you since you're the one who originally brought up lethn's career as well as that zinger about me having a small penis.

and yes, you didn't ask for anyone's opinion on this thread. are you really so stupid that you can't even remember your own thread? you're even getting so flustered now you can't even type correctly. i think you should stop.

You seemed to miss the sarcasm in the OP of the other thread, but thats ok lots of stupid people suffer from not being able to detect sarcasm.

[Axelator]

Lachrymose the most hillarious part about all of this is that I'm actually picking a career that could earn me millions if I work hard enough :p

I thought the most hillarious part was that your unemployed and you think you're going to be a millionaire?

Everyone thinks that when they leave college, you are in for a shock.

[Lachrymose]

I am really beginning to think you’re winding me up, and trolling. Ill play ball.

You tell me these are examples of how it's practical.

The first video is of a mass sword kata (which is essentially a dance) katas are the bane of any serious martial art, they are useless when it comes to fighting, not to mention who carries a sword around with them

second video is much the same as the first.

Third is a choreographed fight scene and the same goes for the fourth.

Strange how there are no videos of monks actually free style sparring. They don’t do it and that’s why they would fail in a fight against a well rounded mma practitioner.

eh, lethn. i don't think you posting vids of those shaolin punks was very conducive to the argument. :(

[Lethn]

Awww! He's self-projecting, that's what all adults say when they've had a bad history and try forcing people younger than them to believe what they believe.

Oh and Lachrymose I can understand not being terribly convinced by unarmed kata's but even an idiot like Axelator could understand that metal easily cuts through skin, these guys are pretty much saying that no traditional martial art works, so does he include weaponry in that as well? Hell you might even say that in fact medieval weapons styles are traditional martial arts so does that mean that they don't work as well? I'd love him to keep saying that even if he's lying on the floor bleeding after getting slashed by one of these guys.

[Thorpeyrox]

Since we're all into youtube videos here's one for ya!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fL9ZXos8LfQ&feature=related

Some really good kicks shown here used in the ring.

[Lachrymose]

well, i think we've said pretty much everything that needs to be said, and axelator, the expert on martial arts he is (although he has to ask for MA advice on a video game forum... hmm), decided none of it was substantial, yet his irrefutable logic that oddly has no support other than his 'saying so' is.

so let's just let this thread die and hopefully axelator you'll learn to be a little less stubborn.

[Kaorn]

I don't claim to be a super secret ninja, but isn't tae kwon do much more recent compared to many of the other marital arts?

[Lachrymose]

Since we're all into youtube videos here's one for ya!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fL9ZXos8LfQ&feature=related

Some really good kicks shown here used in the ring.

no, that video must be photoshopped. axelator supported hard evidence that no traditional martial artist has ever beaten a mixed martial artist. ever. i think the evidence was that he said it, which is enough for me to believe it's true!

[Lachrymose]

I don't claim to be a super secret ninja, but isn't tae kwon do much more recent compared to many of the other marital arts?

yes, it is relatively new. maybe a century? i don't really know though, i never cared much for tkd.

[Axelator]

Since we're all into youtube videos here's one for ya!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fL9ZXos8LfQ&feature=related

Some really good kicks shown here used in the ring.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfgLNJL2KFA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycPm78BmAXs&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbrYiy3Xe_A&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6mMtHqXyYc&feature=related

nuff said all the times I was looking through Tkd vs kickboxing/Muay Thai the only one I saw where a tkd practitioner won is the one you posted.

[Thorpeyrox]

I don't claim to be a super secret ninja, but isn't tae kwon do much more recent compared to many of the other marital arts?

I thought it was about 2000 years old (~) and Korean, I'm sure thats right.

[Lethn]

TKD isn't that bad from what I've seen and there's nothing wrong with asking questions if your honest about it ;) yeah it's quite a recent one actually though may be better to look it up.

[Axelator]

well, i think we've said pretty much everything that needs to be said, and axelator, the expert on martial arts he is (although he has to ask for MA advice on a video game forum... hmm), decided none of it was substantial, yet his irrefutable logic that oddly has no support other than his 'saying so' is.

so let's just let this thread die and hopefully axelator you'll learn to be a little less stubborn.

Where exactly is this evidence other than "well they can break bricks, therefore they can kill people"? Also where did I ask for advice? Quote me.

[Thorpeyrox]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfgLNJL2KFA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycPm78BmAXs&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbrYiy3Xe_A&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6mMtHqXyYc&feature=related

nuff said all the times I was looking through Tkd vs kickboxing/Muay Thai the only one I saw where a tkd practitioner won is the one you posted.

We can all search you-tube and videos of people winning, I was just particularly impressed by this one... because ancient martial arts don't work right? Especially not in the home territory of a boxer a.k.a. the ring. So this must be vapourwear right?

[Lethn]

Axelator, let me ask you something, how hard exactly do you think the average human bone is? Honestly, I'd really like you to answer.

[Axelator]

Awww! He's self-projecting, that's what all adults say when they've had a bad history and try forcing people younger than them to believe what they believe.

Oh and Lachrymose I can understand not being terribly convinced by unarmed kata's but even an idiot like Axelator could understand that metal easily cuts through skin, these guys are pretty much saying that no traditional martial art works, so does he include weaponry in that as well? Hell you might even say that in fact medieval weapons styles are traditional martial arts so does that mean that they don't work as well? I'd love him to keep saying that even if he's lying on the floor bleeding after getting slashed by one of these guys.

YEs they still dont work because if you're wondering dwon the street with a bo staff or sword you're going to be arrested before you even have the chance to get into a confrontation you fucking mong.

[Thorpeyrox]

TKD isn't that bad from what I've seen and there's nothing wrong with asking questions if your honest about it ;) yeah it's quite a recent one actually though may be better to look it up.

http://www.blackbeltworld.com/features/history/historypage1.htm

Until looking into the martial art myself I didn't think it was ancient but I tried some in the past for about 6 months and yeah it's old. :)
Quit because the instructor left...

[Axelator]

Axelator, let me ask you something, how hard exactly do you think the average human bone is? Honestly, I'd really like you to answer.

Read the awnser above, you cant carry weapons about without being arrested, so your whole argument about TMA being effective when they use weapons in real fights is bullshit.

[Lethn]

As a matter of fact my uncle knows a guy who as the license to carry around a sword he uses with a traditional martial art and your just running out of arguments to make aren't you? Brilliant that your being reduced to three lines :D

Also thanks for that Thopeyrox! Pretty interesting stuff.

[PrimalSign]

eh, lethn. i don't think you posting vids of those shaolin punks was very conducive to the argument. :(

Yeah, I was about to say...

Unless he meant to show the very practical uses of TMA in dance, those videos aren't helping his side of the argument.


As for the belief that TMA must be useful in a fight because it has been used for so long:

Keep in mind the first word of the acronym. Traditional.
It's very likely that what you see is due to cultural inheritance instead of a way to train others in combat. Much like holding onto language and other aspects of heritage, a culture may continue their martial arts for the same reasons. IMO, that's what most TMA looks like, although I won't pretend to be an expert on fighting. I just can't imagine a fighter getting away with those moves in a real fight.

[Thorpeyrox]

Axelator, let me ask you something, how hard exactly do you think the average human bone is? Honestly, I'd really like you to answer.

The human limit for punching is 50kn but to get that kind of strength you'd need a 22 inch tricep. At that point the bones in your arm shatter.

Source - http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2008/02/19/how-hard-can-i-punch-without-breaking-my-fist-89520-20324153/

I actually read the magazine to this article and was quite amazed, however how many people have a 22 inch tricep these days? ^^

[Lachrymose]

Where exactly is this evidence other than "well they can break bricks, therefore they can kill people"? Also where did I ask for advice? Quote me.

what the fuck.. i DID quote you. i guess i'll quote you again... *sigh*

Since we apparantly have a lot of martial artists here I was wondering what you guys thought of this. Any of you who follow MMA at all will know who this guy is. WHat do you guys who do traditional martial artists think of this and I was wondering if we could get an experts view on it, is kebek still around?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQVaTEPOsTA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVqCgBEei0o&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCox0f69a04&feature=related

the best evidence is that traditional martial arts were created to be used on the battlefield. then, they were passed down through the generations. now, if it didn't work i'm confused why they wouldn't just stop training with these martial arts, instead of passing them down for hundreds of years.

also, i didn't see you provide any evidence for your argument btw.

[Lachrymose]

I just can't imagine a fighter getting away with those moves in a real fight.

if you're referring to the moves you saw in the shaolin junk video, just don't pay attention to it. they're very skilled artists, but what they do is nothing more than a gymnastics routine.

[Lethn]

There was actually a documentary about traditional styles my teachers talked about once, that explained the science behind the martial art, it's a bit hard to explain because of how flipping complicated it is but you don't actually generate the power using pure physical strength i.e just with your muscle it's a mixture of stance and technique and when you combine that you can actually get the amount of power needed, obviously this takes years of training though.

This is why you see pretty much almost anyone practicing traditional martial arts because huge amounts of muscle aren't actually required in order to use the techniques right, and the explanation above is the way my style works.

Directed at Thorpyerox by the way.

Also in regards to the kata's the kata's themselves might not necessarily work because they'd have to be in rather controlled situations but the moves that you learn from them certainly do, nearly all these techniques work in some fashion or form it's just a matter of being able to think outside the box and apply them in the right way.

[Axelator]

As a matter of fact my uncle knows a guy who as the license to carry around a sword he uses with a traditional martial art and your just running out of arguments to make aren't you? Brilliant that your being reduced to three lines :D

Also thanks for that Thopeyrox! Pretty interesting stuff.

Trust me kid im not. If your uncles friend has a license to carry a sword why not just get one for a gun? I mean if your prepared to carry a weapon just get a gun for fucks sake, what sort of good carrys a sword with them? A gun or sword can do damage in untrained hands as well as in trained. I love how I;m reducing you to four lines.

[Lethn]

Check my post above and other posts I've made arguing with other people about game mechanics and the like, I can write walls of texts if I want to, your just simply not worth the effort anymore, gotta love the effort your showing though, if only you put that much effort into being respectful towards others and actually training.

[Axelator]

what the fuck.. i DID quote you. i guess i'll quote you again... *sigh*



the best evidence is that traditional martial arts were created to be used on the battlefield. then, they were passed down through the generations. now, if it didn't work i'm confused why they wouldn't just stop training with these martial arts, instead of passing them down for hundreds of years.

also, i didn't see you provide any evidence for your argument btw.

Thats not evidence though, the proof that they suck is in the fact that they have not been used in war for centurys, they are traditional because they have not evolved with the times and if you practise them your just practising an old fashioned out of date fighting style that hasnt seen actual combat for hundreds of years.

[Axelator]

Check my post above and other posts I've made arguing with other people about game mechanics and the like, I can write walls of texts if I want to, your just simply not worth the effort anymore, gotta love the effort your showing though, if only you put that much effort into being respectful towards others and actually training.

That old excuse.

[Lachrymose]

There was actually a documentary about traditional styles my teachers talked about once, that explained the science behind the martial art, it's a bit hard to explain because of how flipping complicated it is but you don't actually generate the power using pure physical strength i.e just with your muscle it's a mixture of stance and technique and when you combine that you can actually get the amount of power needed, obviously this takes years of training though.

This is why you see pretty much almost anyone practicing traditional martial arts because huge amounts of muscle aren't actually required in order to use the techniques right.


yea, i took wing chun and the whole art form is designed to defend yourself against an enemy that's stronger than you. you use bone structure, body alignment, and position rather than muscles to 'outstructure' your opponent rather than outmuscle them. axelator, you don't have to pay attention to that b/c even if you did understand it, you would just stubbornly dismiss it as nonsense.

[Axelator]

It is nonsense size does matter thats why there are weight classes in all combat sports. Sure a small guy can beat a big guy but the big guy has an advantage.

[Kaorn]

http://www.blackbeltworld.com/features/history/historypage1.htm

Until looking into the martial art myself I didn't think it was ancient but I tried some in the past for about 6 months and yeah it's old. :)
Quit because the instructor left...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taekwondo

If wikipedia is to be trusted then it is only a century old at the most.

[Thorpeyrox]

There was actually a documentary about traditional styles my teachers talked about once, that explained the science behind the martial art, it's a bit hard to explain because of how flipping complicated it is but you don't actually generate the power using pure physical strength i.e just with your muscle it's a mixture of stance and technique and when you combine that you can actually get the amount of power needed, obviously this takes years of training though.

This is why you see pretty much almost anyone practicing traditional martial arts because huge amounts of muscle aren't actually required in order to use the techniques right, and the explanation above is the way my style works.

Directed at Thorpyerox by the way.

Also in regards to the kata's the kata's themselves might not necessarily work because they'd have to be in rather controlled situations but the moves that you learn from them certainly do.

I don't know a great deal about the science behind most martial arts but from what I know/practise/heard is that twisting the hips, twisting your fist when you punch and tensing at the right moment has something to do with it.
But with all of these martial arts you'd benefit greatly with atleast some lean muscle, or toned up atleast.

[Sickle]

haha i was just watching those gracie videos thinkin, man if someone was dumb enough to stick their damn ear right next to my mouth they'd be missing a ear and i'd have a nice little trophy

[Lethn]

It is nonsense size does matter thats why there are weight classes in all combat sports. Sure a small guy can beat a big guy but the big guy has an advantage.

sweeeet... he's contradicting himself now :D

[Lachrymose]

sweeeet... he's contradicting himself now :D

haha. axelator, do you realize you just said two sentences in a row that meant the opposite?

[Axelator]

You use muscle to generate the power which is why people like Iron Mike Tyson that re loaded with muscle can create such explosive punches, they create the power with their muscles and use their excellent technique to deliver that power efficiently to the opponent.

That’s why muscle is so important it creates the power, good technique just makes sure it all reaches the opponent.

[Thorpeyrox]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taekwondo

If wikipedia is to be trusted then it is only a century old at the most.

Which part are you reading... it doesn't mention it there (or I missed something)

http://www.natkd.com/faq.htm says 2000 years as well.

[Axelator]

Can't you two read?

Ill repeat myself. A small guy CAN beat a big guy, but the big guy has an advantage.

That means theres a chance a small guy can beat a big guy but it's a small chance because he is small.

A contradiction would be, A small guy can never beat a big guy, but a small guy stands a chance.

Understand the differance? This is like talking to downys.

[Thrill_KIll]

Ok, so the Street fighting thread got a little crazy, so I decided to start my own thread.

Let me first send out a message to anyone on this forum who practices Karate,Kung Fu,Tae Kwon Do,Tang Soo Do, Hapkido,Aikido,Kempo,Kenpo or any martial art that uses techniques that are "so dangerous you can't actually see if they work because your partner would intantly die"...YOU ARE WASTING YOUR TIME!!!! What you are learning was created a long time ago and is not capable of dealing with the way people fight today. You WILL GET YOUR ASS KICKED in a fight. If you're style of fighting doesn't allow you to take full contact strikes to the head and body, then you are in this group.

Please, learn from the mistakes of one of the people in these videos and learn an ACTUAL fighting style (i.e Boxing,Kickboxing, Thai Boxing, BJJ, Submission wrestling) hell if you're in HS, and I know alot of you are...join the wrestling team, it's much more practical than ancient asian non-sense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-8NCJ56i5s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9983KgLFF3g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6mMtHqXyYc


If you use BJJ in a real fight, you are going to get your brains stomped out. Period.

You may now go back to sucking the collective dick of the UFC.

LOL


The best fighting style is the one where you do whatever it takes to win.

[Lachrymose]

You use muscle to generate the power which is why people like Iron Mike Tyson that re loaded with muscle can create such explosive punches, they create the power with their muscles and use their excellent technique to deliver that power efficiently to the opponent.

That’s why muscle is so important it creates the power, good technique just makes sure it all reaches the opponent.

haha if you don't think body rotation, speed, or structure have anything to do with power, than you shouldn't even be in this thread.

also, you seemed to shy away from my question. you asked for me to quote your post where you asked traditional martial artists for advice, i did (twice i might add) and then you started talking about something else. it was right before you started acting like an expert, then claiming that MMA stood for "modern martial arts." remember?

i also didn't get the evidence for your argument that TMA's are useless.

[Lethn]

We were actually talking about a post you made earlier that contradicts what you said just then when are you going to give up? :p

Someone needs to look up physics and biology.

[Kaorn]

Which part are you reading... it doesn't mention it there (or I missed something)

http://www.natkd.com/faq.htm says 2000 years as well.

The Development part, specifically this part.

In 1952, at the height of the Korean War, there was a martial arts exhibition in which the kwans displayed their skills. In one demonstration, Nam Tae Hi smashed thirteen roof tiles with a forefist punch. Following the demonstration, South Korean President Syngman Rhee instructed Choi Hong Hi to introduce the martial arts to the Korean army.[36]

By the mid-1950s, nine kwans had emerged. Syngman Rhee ordered that the various schools unify under a single system. The name "taekwondo" was submitted by Choi Hong Hi and was accepted on April 12, 1955.[37] The Korean Taekwondo Association (KTA) was formed in 1961 to facilitate the unification.[6] Shortly thereafter, taekwondo made its début worldwide. Standardization efforts in South Korea stalled, as the kwans continued to teach differing styles. Another request from the Korean government for unification resulted in the formation of the Korea Tae Soo Do Association, which changed its name back to the Korean Taekwondo Association in 1965 following a change of leadership.

Edit: Also the link you gave says that it is derived form marital arts that were used 2000 years ago, not that it started that long ago, and that might be the case, because from what I understand, TKD is a medley of number of techniques.

[Axelator]

haha if you don't think body rotation, speed, or structure have anything to do with power, than you shouldn't even be in this thread.

also, you seemed to shy away from my question. you asked for me to quote your post where you asked traditional martial artists for advice, i did (twice i might add) and then you started talking about something else. it was right before you started acting like an expert, then claiming that MMA stood for "modern martial arts." remember?

i also didn't get the evidence for your argument that TMA's are useless.

I didnt say they didn;t play a part I said they are essential in delivering the power, but they dont create it. Read my awnsers please. Also you didnt quote me you said you had I looked for it but it wasn't in your post. I've been giving you evidence you've been ingoring it.

TMA HAVENT BEEN USED IN WAR FOR CENTURIES. Did you see it this time?

[Lethn]

If you use BJJ in a real fight, you are going to get your brains stomped out. Period.

You may now go back to sucking the collective dick of the UFC.

LOL


The best fighting style is the one where you do whatever it takes to win.

quoted for fucking truth, I actually agree with you on that one Thrill_Kill when you go into ANY fight the idea is that your supposed to take them down as fast as possible and just finish it, good man :)

[Sickle]

You use muscle to generate the power which is why people like Iron Mike Tyson that re loaded with muscle can create such explosive punches, they create the power with their muscles and use their excellent technique to deliver that power efficiently to the opponent.

That’s why muscle is so important it creates the power, good technique just makes sure it all reaches the opponent.

velocity*mass= power, muscle is just a easy way to create velocity to deliver the mass into the object

It is not the power, simply the tool used to deliver the payload.

the more weight and speed you can focus into what ever you are striking with will generate more damage.

The older martial arts tend to work poorly for people today because the people are being taught technique without being taught the correct body mechanics to generate power.

sooo, mr big muscles walks into dojo, says haha little man i beat you, and little man gets beaten.

A true student combat arts would see mr big muscles walk into the dojo, causually approach him before the challenge has been made, and nail him in the balls, break his knee, crush his laryx and put out a eye or two before mr big muscle could move his frame enough to defend himself.

[Lachrymose]

Can't you two read?

Ill repeat myself. A small guy CAN beat a big guy, but the big guy has an advantage.

That means theres a chance a small guy can beat a big guy but it's a small chance because he is small.

A contradiction would be, A small guy can never beat a big guy, but a small guy stands a chance.

Understand the differance? This is like talking to downys.

haha, ok there partner. ;)

i guess i'll just chalk that one up to semantics and let it slide. when you say "size does matter" it typically doesn't mean that it matters in that it provides some advantage, but rather that it's a definite advantage. if you say a smaller person can beat a bigger person, then it follows that "size doesn't matter." since it's still possible for a smaller person to beat a bigger person. but maybe in the UK this would fly. :rolleyes:

[Axelator]

quoted for fucking truth, I actually agree with you on that one Thrill_Kill when you go into ANY fight the idea is that your supposed to take them down as fast as possible and just finish it, good man :)

SO if you think that why the fuck do you take traditional martial arts that teach you stupid ammounts of kicks and punches that are useless. Not to metnion the useless katas you have to spend time learning and practising.

[Lethn]

oh and uhh... hehheee... Look at what I just found http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_zmL6BRCOA

[Axelator]

haha, ok there partner. ;)

i guess i'll just chalk that one up to semantics and let it slide. when you say "size does matter" it typically doesn't mean that it matters in that it provides some advantage, but rather that it's a definite advantage. if you say a smaller person can beat a bigger person, then it follows that "size doesn't matter." since it's still possible for a smaller person to beat a bigger person. but maybe in the UK this would fly. :rolleyes:

Are you retarded? You seem incapable of reading even simple English. Just because a smaller person CAN beat a bigger person dosen't mean size dosen't matter, an old woman CAN beat a teenager with a knife but the fact hes a teenager and has a knife still seriously affects that fight, it dosent mean that because she could win that weapons and age dosen't mater in a fight. They are all factors and size is a big one.

[Thorpeyrox]

The Development part, specifically this part.



Edit: Also the link you gave says that it is derived form marital arts that were used 2000 years ago, not that it started that long ago, and that might be the case, because from what I understand, TKD is a medley of number of techniques.

From what I read there the name of the martial art was changed, it was created then the 'kawns' had been using that martial art back in times such as 53AD in the Kokooryo Kingdom (Korea)

[Lachrymose]

I didnt say they didn;t play a part I said they are essential in delivering the power, but they dont create it. Read my awnsers please. Also you didnt quote me you said you had I looked for it but it wasn't in your post. I've been giving you evidence you've been ingoring it.

TMA HAVENT BEEN USED IN WAR FOR CENTURIES. Did you see it this time?

haha ok. when i said evidence, i mean real evidence. martial arts were used for centuries. guns were invented and they changed things a little since they couldn't rely solely on hand-to-hand combat anymore.

if you noticed in one of my posts before, you'd see that the MCMAP that the military uses is rooted in okinawan karate, jiu jitsu, and judo.

also, you're dodging the fact that you asked traditional martial artists for advice. don't make me post the quote again.

[Axelator]

oh and uhh... hehheee... Look at what I just found http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_zmL6BRCOA

I thought you had been arguing that shotokan karate was not a TMA and it was a sporting martial art throughout this thread? You just contradicted yourself well done you won the prize.

http://www.jeffreysharp.org/fun/YouWinThePrize.jpg

[Lethn]

Actually that was Lachrymose for the most part, the version of Shotokan I do definitely is traditional.

[Lachrymose]

Are you retarded? You seem incapable of reading even simple English. Just because a smaller person CAN beat a bigger person dosen't mean size dosen't matter, an old woman CAN beat a teenager with a knife but the fact hes a teenager and has a knife still seriously affects that fight, it dosent mean that because she could win that weapons and age dosen't mater in a fight. They are all factors and size is a big one.

no, i see what you're saying. but the phrase "size doesn't matter" isn't so literal. saying "size doesn't matter" is a way of saying "it doesn't matter if you're smaller, you can still win." it doesn't mean that size doesn't give you an advantage. it's a literary device, not a literal expression. thus, why i chalked it up to semantics b/c from a literal point of view, you're right, but from a literary point of view it was contradictory. if you don't understand it's alright, just ignore this like you seem to do whenever your in a rut.

[Kaorn]

From what I read there the name of the martial art was changed, it was created then the 'kawns' had been using that martial art back in times such as 53AD in the Kokooryo Kingdom (Korea)

Ok you win.

[Lachrymose]

Thats not evidence though, the proof that they suck is in the fact that they have not been used in war for centurys, they are traditional because they have not evolved with the times and if you practise them your just practising an old fashioned out of date fighting style that hasnt seen actual combat for hundreds of years.

uh, they don't use them since they use guns now thanks. use BJJ or kickboxing to win against someone with a gun, video tape it, and then maybe you'll have an argument.

anyways, i'm done with this thread now. i much preferred arguing with jathen b/c at least he came up with some reasonable evidence to support some of his claims.

[Axelator]

haha ok. when i said evidence, i mean real evidence. martial arts were used for centuries. guns were invented and they changed things a little since they couldn't rely solely on hand-to-hand combat anymore.

if you noticed in one of my posts before, you'd see that the MCMAP that the military uses is rooted in okinawan karate, jiu jitsu, and judo.

also, you're dodging the fact that you asked traditional martial artists for advice. don't make me post the quote again.

1. Shotokan karate isn’t traditional and neither is Judo, I doubt the version of jujitsu the military use is traditional either, as even you said they have adapted these martial arts making them non traditional. Plus I assume your talking about asian militaries here as western one tend to use krav maga/boxing/BJJ esque techniques.

2. TMA aren’t the first choice for hand to hand combat for modern militaries, except in Asia where they cling to there past for prides sake.

3. I'm not dodging anything. I already addressed this if you bothered to read my posts and I said you have not provided this quote you said you had and I looked for it and it was not there, I think you might have missed the sarcasm or just been unable to grasp the English language like you have shown before.

[Axelator]

uh, they don't use them since they use guns now thanks. use BJJ or kickboxing to win against someone with a gun, video tape it, and then maybe you'll have an argument.

anyways, i'm done with this thread now. i much preferred arguing with jathen b/c at least he came up with some reasonable evidence to support some of his claims.

Ok run away, thats my advice for you if you ever leave your parents basment and get in a fight too.

[Axelator]

no, i see what you're saying. but the phrase "size doesn't matter" isn't so literal. saying "size doesn't matter" is a way of saying "it doesn't matter if you're smaller, you can still win." it doesn't mean that size doesn't give you an advantage. it's a literary device, not a literal expression. thus, why i chalked it up to semantics b/c from a literal point of view, you're right, but from a literary point of view it was contradictory. if you don't understand it's alright, just ignore this like you seem to do whenever your in a rut.

I haven't ignored a single post you simply don;t read them.

[Lethn]

Axelator you have failed to take a look at actual history, there are in fact two branches of Shotokan from what I remember one in the U.S and then there's the traditional one.

And lol at the one liner contradictory comment :p

[Axelator]

Axelator you have failed to take a look at actual history, there are in fact two branches of Shotokan from what I remember one in the U.S and then there's the traditional one.

Now tell me which do the army suposedly use and remember you have to provide proof. Unfortunatly I do actually have work so I will have to leave this thread at some point. Unlike some people.

[Lethn]

The branches just focus on different aspects of Shotokan rather than just one and the documentaries right there for you to see, the military have formed their own style with it.

[Lachrymose]

1. Shotokan karate isn’t traditional and neither is Judo, I doubt the version of jujitsu the military use is traditional either, as even you said they have adapted these martial arts making them non traditional. Plus I assume your talking about asian militaries here as western one tend to use krav maga/boxing/BJJ esque techniques.

no, shotokan isn't traditional, i agree. i never said anything otherwise. now, i did say that MCMAP uses okinawan karate, which is traditional (karate was first used in okinawa). samurai's came up with jiujitsu to use in battle, it think you're confused with brazilian jiujitsu which is the more recent version. standard jiu jitsu is definitely traditional. but no, judo's not traditional.

and no, the MCMAP = marince corps martial arts program, aka the US marines.

[Axelator]

no, shotokan isn't traditional, i agree. i never said anything otherwise. now, i did say that MCMAP uses okinawan karate, which is traditional (karate was first used in okinawa). samurai's came up with jiujitsu to use in battle, it think you're confused with brazilian jiujitsu which is the more recent version. standard jiu jitsu is definitely traditional. but no, judo's not traditional.

and no, the MCMAP = marince corps martial arts program, aka the US marines.

YEs and they have adapted it, they do not practise katas etc. ANyway I thought you were giving up?

[Lachrymose]

Now tell me which do the army suposedly use and remember you have to provide proof. Unfortunatly I do actually have work so I will have to leave this thread at some point. Unlike some people.

i have work to do too, i've been avoiding it though, and this has been much more entertaining.

[Axelator]

i have work to do too, i've been avoiding it though, and this has been much more entertaining.

I was talking about Lethn, you may be deluded but at least you work.

[Lachrymose]

oh, also. you never did give me a reason why you asked for advice in your other thread. i looked for it, but it wasn't there. :(

if you did in fact post it, i'd like to see. you can just quote it for me.

[Luca Blight]

Tae Kwan Do is a joke of a martial art, making you overextend your center of gravity in 99% of the techniques. Most forms of Kung Fu are ridiculously impractical. Traditional Japanese Karate is outdated.

On the other hand... Boxing is the biggest fucking joke of them all. The claim that a modern boxer is able to take just about any skilled martial artist in a true to life fight is ridiculous. Savate fighters, maybe. MMA as one sees in the UFC is also a SPORT. Submission wrestling is also a sport. It's a terrible, terrible thing that the Gracies have done, making people believe that the brazilian form of jiu-jutsu is a valid form of fighting. All of the systems that the OP seems to believe are legitimate forms of defense (Greco-Roman wrestling... you've already proved you're a retard right there) are made for sports, and emphasize point systems and knockouts (not always the goal, people) over control and ending the fight as fast as possible. It takes only as much as a broken wrist or collarbone in 99% of the fights you'll ever be in to end them.

Ancient Jiu-Jutsu, the technique that is the most direct predecessor of modern MMA, is still as deadly as it was hundreds of years ago, because it's practical. I've had the privilege of studying with masters of new forms of Jiu-Jutsu, like Rick Sailor of Shin-Gi-Tai. He will tell you that it takes one slip of a guy's defenses, one lapse of their center of gravity and you can have a guy on the ground writhing in pain. It doesn't take much, and that's the whole point of fighting arts - End it as quickly as possible.

Don't discount Kyusho-jitsu either. You can gain the advantage in striking arts simply by knowing where you can do the most damage to your opponent with a single strike. It takes a little more maneuvering than Jiu-Jutsu does, but the results can be devestating. Professor Rick Clark, Grandmaster of Ao Denkou Jitsu is the foremost authority on Kyusho-Jitsu. Once again, martial arts in a self-defense form are about control, and about ending the fight as soon as possible on your terms.

If you're looking for martial arts that are actually useful in fights, don't look to the West. Look to Israel. Krav Maga is one of the most brutal forms of martial arts in existence, and it's all about defending yourself on the streets, from people with guns, from people with knives. It stems from the very, VERY real need of a people to protect themselves.

The point is, there is no, as you say, "Modern" martial art that stems from the need of the practitioner to defend themselves in a life or death struggle. Boxing, Greco-Roman wrestling, Brazilian Jiu-Jutsu, Kickboxing... Don't fucking make me laugh. I'd put my bets on a tiny Israeli woman with nothing to lose over Chuck Liddell any day.

[Axelator]

oh, also. you never did give me a reason why you asked for advice in your other thread. i looked for it, but it wasn't there. :(

if you did in fact post it, i'd like to see. you can just quote it for me.

I didn't post it, for some reason one guy thought I did then it spread from there.

[Lachrymose]

Since we apparantly have a lot of martial artists here I was wondering what you guys thought of this. Any of you who follow MMA at all will know who this guy is. WHat do you guys who do traditional martial artists think of this and I was wondering if we could get an experts view on it, is kebek still around?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQVaTEPOsTA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVqCgBEei0o&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCox0f69a04&feature=related

here's the quote (3rd time). are you telling me you didn't post this?

[Lethn]

wow Luca Blight, I honestly think you've explained it better than any of us, if I could have the space in my sig I'd quote you :D

[Jathen]

If you use BJJ in a real fight, you are going to get your brains stomped out. Period.

You may now go back to sucking the collective dick of the UFC.

LOL


The best fighting style is the one where you do whatever it takes to win.

In a 1v1 fight nothing is better. Anyone not trained in Wrestling, BJJ, or take down defense would be taken down and choked or had a limb broken........Ya it is really terrible for "real" fighting :lmao:.