Is Real-Time 'fps' Combat Required For Pvp to be Enjoyable?

[salbrismind]

Personally the first and foremost feature that attracted me to DFO. But do you think it is required for Pvp now. I mean I could not imagine DF with everyone running around right-clicking on each other and press a combination of the number keys.

I think without DF combat a game can never become truly great. What do you think?

[Henu989]

The game would be best out there even if they took out fps combat.

It's better with it tho.

[PrimalSign]

I think without DF combat a game can never become truly great. What do you think?

I think I will never again enjoy a MMO that didn't have real-time combat in it.

Actually, I'm pretty sure of it.

I'd say the same about the FPS part, but I also like strategy games and prefer those when they use a non-FP perspective and an interface suited to commanding multiple units. Unless it was a FPS/Strategy hybrid, then I'd like the FPS part there too.

(Sorry for the lack of enthusiasm, there's just nothing on this topic left to discuss. You'd find the FPS combat is one of the major drawing points for those here.)

[VenomKing666]

The game would be best out there even if they took out fps combat.

I think not. If DFO wasnt real time I would not buy it.

[salbrismind]

I think I will never again enjoy a MMO that didn't have real-time combat in it.

Actually, I'm pretty sure of it.

That's the way I feel. I mean I wouldn't mind Wow so much it did have DF's combat.

[Needles]

It's going to be great, and you will be hating every other game for not having it.

Just like AoC, the only thing I liked was not having to target something to hit it and being able to hit multiple enemies without a retarded "hits up to 3 enemies at a time!" skill. Now every game I play makes me angry when I can't do that.

[Consume]

fps style ftw, otherwise clicking to attack and the like would be ridiculously slow.

[Eternalsinner]

the PvP in other MMOs will feel like childs play once you finally experiance real time action PvP where your in complete control over your character and your individual skill is the main defining factor in victory. You can have the best possible gear there is but if you suck, its not gunna help you.

[salbrismind]

Anyone ever play Dota, the Wc3 custom map? It is the only game that has auto-aim (most of the time) but is also very enjoyable.

[Kietharr]

Full PvP is not why I'm playing this game, full loot is not why I'm playing this game, the feature I am playing for is the real time combat. I would play this if it were everquest with real time combat, I'm no PvP fanatic. I simply like to know that I am swinging the sword, not rolling a pair of dice to see if I successfully swing my sword.

[Jonkar]

The real time is a must. I'd still play it, but only because I've waited for this for so long (And I don't give a shit about you '02ers, It feels like a long time to me) and there's nothing else out there on the market.

That being said, as soon as something else worth playing would pop up, I'd jump ship with probably about 75% of Forumfall.

So yes, it is a must.

[VenomKing666]

Anyone ever play Dota, the Wc3 custom map? It is the only game that has auto-aim (most of the time) but is also very enjoyable.

Yes, I play it and I agree.

[Blixa]

rts = fps. The title says "rt-fps-c", but the poll says rtc... I guess I go with the poll questions since in answer 2 it's clearly you mean only rtc

For me it is required to make for a good game. Autohit is just damn boring.

[Staatsschutz]

not required for pvp, but surely fun

[Thoric]

Yes it is because it spits in the face of templates and RPS systems.

[Fry Me Baby]

I'd play the game but I would be very dissappointed since I've been wanting to see how FPS combat would feel in an MMO since most are just point and click

[Byggin]

Don't you hate when you see an attack coming and you can't do anything about it in a turn based targeting system? I mean fuck here comes the hammer I can't sidestep, I can't actively block, I can't, I can't, fuck there goes my head. Won't be like that in an FPS system I CAN.

[Nexus]

Chess isn't real time, but is still enjoyable.

[salbrismind]

Chess isn't real time, but is still enjoyable.

For some people, personally I can't stand it!

[Astaren]

Not required, but recommendable

[Eternalsinner]

i think what most people are forgetting and worry about is the fact that, this wont be quake or counter-strike. its not a true FPS and sure there is a learning curve but its nowhere near that of a first person shooter. its goin to be a SLOW fps, you dont need lightning fast reaction times and you dont move at the speed of mongoose. its simply just going to take getting used to having full controll over your character rather then having things like hitting blocking and parrying already done for you.

[salbrismind]

i think what most people are forgetting and worry about is the fact that, this wont be quake or counter-strike. its not a true FPS and sure there is a learning curve but its nowhere near that of a first person shooter. its goin to be a SLOW fps, you dont need lightning fast reaction times and you dont move at the speed of mongoose. its simply just going to take getting used to having full controll over your character rather then having things like hitting blocking and parrying already done for you.

We don't know how fast it is yet. But from the latest gameplay vid you get a good idication that it will be pretty fast.

[Eternalsinner]

We don't know how fast it is yet. But from the latest gameplay vid you get a good idication that it will be pretty fast.

well....if you think thats fast... dont get interested in the FPS genre lol. its fast paced for melee combat as opposed to other games, but its slow compared to a true FPS, it wont be as bad as alot of people may think.

[salbrismind]

well....if you think thats fast... dont get interested in the FPS genre lol. its fast paced for melee combat as opposed to other games, but its slow compared to a true FPS, it wont be as bad as alot of people may think.

I know! I mean its still pretty fast in comparison to most games. Faster than nearly all MMO's, faster than M&B, faster then Pvk 2, and hell there is a lot more to worry about than in an Fps.

[Marrik]

im fine with auto aim, as long as the combat is frantic and fun. honestly, the sense of a chaotic world where theres constant combat is more important to me than the controls, which is why i like games like WoW at release and open beta FOM

[Largion]

Not a must but it makes it better.

[Eternalsinner]

I know! I mean its still pretty fast in comparison to most games. Faster than nearly all MMO's, faster than M&B, faster then Pvk 2, and hell there is a lot more to worry about than in an Fps.

I actually think PvK2 is a bit faster. im not sure tho, maybe it seems faster because ur actually in first person view.

[salbrismind]

I actually think PvK2 is a bit faster. im not sure tho, maybe it seems faster because ur actually in first person view.

Time Will Tell!

[Tharkon Fargor]

Ok what 7 pansies voted for option 2? Go and play any of the other games out there and GTFO of my Darkfall.



WHY DIDN'T YOU MAKE THIS GODAMN POLL PUBLIC SO WE CAN LYNCH THE BASTARDS THAT VOTED 2?

[Tharkon Fargor]

Don't you hate when you see an attack coming and you can't do anything about it in a turn based targeting system? I mean fuck here comes the hammer I can't sidestep, I can't actively block, I can't, I can't, fuck there goes my head. Won't be like that in an FPS system I CAN.

Yeah god I hate that.
No a combat system like Mount and Blade would be awesome.
The most important part for me is that one may at least avoid the attacks by jumping away or something.
Not that like in some other games even if you jump away and use your speed boost the hammer slam will still hit you despite being 10 feet away.

[Steelbadger]

I've lived for years with auto-aimed attacks.

I'm pretty sure I had fun at some point or other.

[Tharkon Fargor]

We're discussing Darkfall.
We're discussing innovation.

If this is a discussion about if it has ever worked then yeah ofcourse it has!
Who doesn't remember ye old Ultima Games or Ultima Online or things like this.

But in a 3D game with a full player economy, player built cities...realism in one word...we also need to be able to evade blows and aim with our arrows.
Besides it's alot more fun than button bashing and it makes bots worthless.

So for darkfall...No...If this game goes Auto Aim I'm not buying it.

[DaveDFF]

Personally the first and foremost feature that attracted me to DFO. But do you think it is required for Pvp now. I mean I could not imagine DF with everyone running around right-clicking on each other and press a combination of the number keys.

I think without DF combat a game can never become truly great. What do you think?

I think it is irrelevant , and without the FPS the game would probably sell more copies. And is really for people who do not want to play on a level playing field. And you can take that one of two ways.

With the features and world size and being skill based i.e. what you use is what you are would be a major draw for fps/non FPS alike.

So we all have our opinions but in reality the game will sell either way.

[Thardon]

Darkfall's combatsystem was what got me attracted to it in the first place. I'm personally tired of not being able to have full control of my character during combat and that's why I'm looking forward to Darkfall because it offers me that alternative.

[DaveDFF]

Don't you hate when you see an attack coming and you can't do anything about it in a turn based targeting system? I mean fuck here comes the hammer I can't sidestep, I can't actively block, I can't, I can't, fuck there goes my head. Won't be like that in an FPS system I CAN.

Yeah , I guess it's more fun to run around in circles for an hour. And then die to some totally unrelated attack. I must admit one think i can't wait for is to play rabbit with archers I will probably die more from laughing.

[Lethn]

Quite frankly I think none auto-aim games can be alright but if you can't aim then you need to make it so you have as much tactical choices as possible and that the stats system created for it isn't as oversimplified as as it is in most MMORPGs today.

[Eternalsinner]

I think it is irrelevant , and without the FPS the game would probably sell more copies. And is really for people who do not want to play on a level playing field. And you can take that one of two ways.

With the features and world size and being skill based i.e. what you use is what you are would be a major draw for fps/non FPS alike.

So we all have our opinions but in reality the game will sell either way.

if your referring to FPS style skill based combat being for people who dont want to play on an even playing field your horribly mistaken. the entire idea of that is everyones on the same and your individual skill is what defines your character, unlike other games where your ability to play 20 hours a day and become higher lvl then everyone else is what defines your character.

[Eternalsinner]

Yeah , I guess it's more fun to run around in circles for an hour. And then die to some totally unrelated attack. I must admit one think i can't wait for is to play rabbit with archers I will probably die more from laughing.

there are systems in place to ensure things like running in a circle for an hour wont happin...like stamina for instance, stamina draining abilities, and snare type abilitys. armour type also may effect movment speed. there are many factors your not taking into consideration here.

[RavenialNoct]

Look at what Counter-Strike, or to a lesser degree, Tribes did for the FPS multiplayer world. These games allowed a level of control over the character that had completely different feel.

Counter Strike for its realistic feel, though I've never been shot, but playing CS was a different animal than Unreal 1 or Quake II. The hit mapping, the quick deaths, the freezes upon being shot, the game became, as many of us know, a different class of shooter than the classic FPS death match. It was much more strategic, there were more visual clues in game as to what was going on, (free rotating torsos...which I thank to almighty that Darkfall has, bullet holes, the list goes on) People didn't even really use the word frag to refer to CS kills. I wonder if Darkfall plans to put in any sort of weapon impact, movement slows upon dmg...regardless.

I think this type of combat, FPS real time, essentially is getting closer and closer to a console "fighting game" in complexity, I imagine compared to other "real time" RPGs will feel a lot like the first few rounds of CS did way back when compared to other "online fps shooters" of the time.

[salbrismind]

Quite frankly I think none auto-aim games can be alright but if you can't aim then you need to make it so you have as much tactical choices as possible and that the stats system created for it isn't as oversimplified as as it is in most MMORPGs today.

That is what makes Dota (a wc3 custom map) so great. Most of the time the spells are auto-aim but what defines the player skill is timing and other tactics.

I guess I would change my opinion on this matter. If wow had more interesting spells and interesting mobs then it could be better. All it (and many mmos) have are damage spells almost all damage spells!

[Feyrband]

There wasnt just plain No. so i went with the troll option. I dont think would be boring or should have auto aim, just not 100% necessary. i do enjoy it will be in tho, just feel its required.

[evoke]

Not if it's like AC1's system.

[Mourne]

I think something being necessary and better are two different things. FPS is obviously not necessary (for everyone) for something to be fun. There are plenty of fun games that don't require twitch for engaging and strategic pvp/gvg. That said, FPS would be better (for some) imo. So, is it necessary? Hardly. Is it better? Yes.

[KtinoS]

Yes is more enjoyable because you must be there and focus on the combat you cant just click your opponent and hit him while you chat or you drink your coke :p !
Dota is a enjoyable auto-aim game but some of the skills and spells they need you to target them and Dota don't give you the time to relax you must be there.

[DaveDFF]

if your referring to FPS style skill based combat being for people who dont want to play on an even playing field your horribly mistaken. the entire idea of that is everyones on the same and your individual skill is what defines your character, unlike other games where your ability to play 20 hours a day and become higher lvl then everyone else is what defines your character.

So as I said it is not an even playing field, because people are not equal.... The skills will cap out in a limited ammount of time and there is a soft cap, which negates the invested time argument.

The last part of your sentence after 20 hrs does not make sense. I am not mistaken if people just want an arena game good but you have to be real careful because there will be no game if that is the scope of the combat.

(I like the features in DF and the PvP , but I wan't longevity and to be able to develop my charachter over a number of years real time. And have fun with all the other features). And don't get me wrong I will be in the top 1% of players, but I know that and lording it over people isn't a acheivment for me in a game environment I wan't to have some excitement and a lot of fun it's a game. Note more fun than excitement.

I do my lording in real life...

[Deja vu]

DFO wouldn't be the same with out it, but There are games with auto attack and such that are fun (UO)

I picked the troll option.

[alfaroverall]

My short answer: no, it's not fundamentally necessary for the gameplay to be enjoyable, but it makes it dozens of times better if it's there.

So I didn't vote, because none of the options have this true middle ground (the third option should really be "no, but without it it would be a helluva lot less fun" imo) and there is no "other."

[Sir Boof]

depends on how good the fps combat is. i prefer the realtime aiming rather than click auto target and sequence things out. but i hope its not a steril realtime first person hacknslash. i love oblivion but dear god the character animations are so bland and steril so as long as its not just like we are all running around in a big oblivion style combat world ill be happy. the combat in oblivion was not the strong point in it(at least not the melee, the bows and magic worked nicely)

either way ill still try the game out. as long as it makes me wanna play and not be like wow or ffxi where i have to make myself wanna play simply cause i have a nice character that i dont want to go to waste