Cylons are Americans

[Villa]

If you watch the first few episodes of season 3, Battle Star Galactica, you cannot fail to notice the Iraq references.

I applaud the writers for taking the current situation in Iraq and turning it around and presenting it in a way that perhaps might make the average conservative xenophobe reassess his country's role in the occupation.
When you see the brave humans resorting to suicide bombings against the technologicaly advanced Cylons (who are guided by 'God' ) then it should make you wonder.

For those who don't know what I'm talking about, go watch Battle Star Galactica, or just simply nod; smile politely and post a +1

[Kekshorts]

I wish i could grow a pubic thunder beard like the people in ur sig

[Villa]

I wish i could grow a pubic thunder beard like the people in ur sig
i wish i could type like a 10 yr old like ur mom teh lolol

[[LoD] EE]

i wish i could type like a 10 yr old like ur mom teh lolol

I have trouble taking anything seriously from a retard that has to shortcut words with 3 to 5 letters like the person you quoted.

[Rahavin]

Sarcasm.

Its hard to detect.

[Dredgon]

Sarcasm.

Its hard to detect.

On the internet that statement is true.

[Teutates]

Weren't you going to stop making retard threads villa?

[Villa]

Weren't you going to stop making retard threads villa?
Have you even seen season 3 of Galactica?
No? then go get frakked you toaster lover.

[palo god]

Weren't you going to stop making retard threads villa?

Guess not.

[Villa]

Guess not.

Until you see the thing I am talking about, you are just making assumptions and living up to the stereotype.

[Lethn]

I don't watch crap T.V shows that don't really have a good plot in any of the episodes sorry Villa.

[Duffren]

I wanna be a big clunky robot.

[surGeonFFS]

I don't watch crap T.V shows that don't really have a good plot in any of the episodes sorry Villa.

I lost control over my nerd rage there for a second before I realized I was being trolled.

[Teutates]

Have you even seen season 3 of Galactica?
No? then go get frakked you toaster lover.

Yes, I've seen them all. Except for the last ones which aren't out yet ofcourse.

[Villa]

Yes, I've seen them all. Except for the last ones which aren't out yet ofcourse.
You didn't see the analogies?

[Teutates]

You didn't see the analogies?

I thought about villa, blowing stuff up in forumfall.

[Villa]

I thought about villa, blowing stuff up in forumfall.
Only if Forumfall was overrun by Cylons.

[Arkh]

Only if Forumfall was overrun by Cylons.
But the human don't worship Allah but roman-like gods. It's more like when christians took the old religions down.

[SkullPizza]

i love and have almost every episode of BSG and i think the OP is fucking stupid.

and on top of it all if they did resort to trying to make BSG a metaphor about the war in iraq it would cheapen the overall story.

the cylons are led by god? oh so you're saying that the united states is led by god? rediculous. religion is an excuse used on all sides in everything. the united states is led by money.

the OP is just looking so far into something that he is seeing exactly what he wants to see.

[Weeking]

I bet if i was a robot like Bender I could hold my liqueur. I just puked earlier and had to lie down while seeing double from one eye.

[Barbarossa]

Villa could probably find "evil Americans vs. righteous Middle Easterners" analogies in old episodes of "Leave It To Beaver"...

BSG is doing what the original Star Trek did, take current themes from today, gussy them up as sci-fi and make you see social commentary whether you get it or not.

Nothing more, nothing less.

[Villa]

i love and have almost every episode of BSG and i think the OP is fucking stupid.

and on top of it all if they did resort to trying to make BSG a metaphor about the war in iraq it would cheapen the overall story.
So... none of the numerous references they made to the Iraq conflict were valid?
You didn't notice a single one?
Are you a Bush apologist by any chance?


the cylons are led by god? oh so you're saying that the united states is led by god? rediculous. religion is an excuse used on all sides in everything. the united states is led by money.

the OP is just looking so far into something that he is seeing exactly what he wants to see.
If you "love and have almost every episode of BSG" then you'd know about the references the Cylons make to their 'God' and how he has inspired them to invade the humans.
Wasn't Dubya also allegedly inspired by God to go and invade Iraq ?
Still failing to see the analogy here? Jeez you right wing tards need illustrations I swear.

[Desperado[1G]]

down with the cylon infidels

[Kebek]

Villa, I support the mujahedin.
The shari es salaam is a lie, Allah uh akbar!

[Villa]

Villa, I support the mujahedin.
The shari es salaam is a lie, Allah uh akbar!
Wasn't Rambo helping the Taliban last time round?

[Kebek]

Wasn't Rambo helping the Taliban last time round?

Yes, that makes Rambo a mujahed. Last I heard he was fighting the infidels in Burma.

[Villa]

Yes, that makes Rambo a mujahed. Last I heard he was fighting the infidels in Burma.
Is there oil in Burma?

[Villa]

I was just thinking... maybe the final Cylon will turn out to be Dubya.
He's been hiding in a NORAD bunker since 9/11.
That would be truly amazing, and only slightly implausible.

[Kebek]

Is there oil in Burma?

Not enough for the country to be invaded over it.

[SkullPizza]

So... none of the numerous references they made to the Iraq conflict were valid?
You didn't notice a single one?
Are you a Bush apologist by any chance?


If you "love and have almost every episode of BSG" then you'd know about the references the Cylons make to their 'God' and how he has inspired them to invade the humans.
Wasn't Dubya also allegedly inspired by God to go and invade Iraq ?
Still failing to see the analogy here? Jeez you right wing tards need illustrations I swear.

I noticed references to a lot of things. Did you notice how in the miniseries the swearing in of president laura roslin was a direct reference to the swearing in of lindon b. johnson?

link (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cc/Lyndon_B._Johnson_taking_the_oath_of_off ice%2C_November_1963.jpg)

oh you didn't?

everything you've mentioned so far is so freaking general. listen, every major leader in the history of time has invoked their maker(s) when trying to convince the general population that war is a good idea.

your ideas reek of armchair philosophy.

all you've done is say that there are so many things that relate to it. the only actual one that you've mentioned is how the cylons believe in god and that somehow means that the cylons are metaphorical americans. that is a stupid assumption and you should feel stupid for thinking it.

die in a fire.

[Daccus]

I applaud the writers for taking the current situation in Iraq and turning it around and presenting it in a way that perhaps might make the average conservative xenophobe reassess his country's role in the occupation.

You act as if this is a new idea. Every other indie movie is about Iraq and how wrong it is for us to be there. This shit's been happening since the war started, I've played XBox games that do the same thing as what you're describing happened in that episode. I think they've crossed the line into UNoriginal.

[Spart]

So, I'm one of those who should just smile and politely nod, but I think I would first like to hear of more of these references.

[SkullPizza]

So, I'm one of those who should just smile and politely nod, but I think I would first like to hear of more of these references.

there's no room for being polite on these forums

[Spart]

there's no room for being polite on these forums

Yea, I was pretty much just copying what Vill had said for people like me to say, didn't really think about it.

[Gunther TheBlack]

Have you even seen season 3 of Galactica?
No? then go get frakked you toaster lover.

Jahweh doesn't like your language, INFIDEL!!!

[Pumpkin]

There is already a season 4, nub.

[Darkmatter]

I'm hoping the fourth and last season will have a proper ending to it - wrapping the whole thing up.

[sorros]

internet

intorwebz.

bringing up the US, didnt some senator or whatnot say that the internet is 'series of tubes'? :bang:

[Fro]

If you watch the first few episodes of season 3, Battle Star Galactica, you cannot fail to notice the Iraq references.

I applaud the writers for taking the current situation in Iraq and turning it around and presenting it in a way that perhaps might make the average conservative xenophobe reassess his country's role in the occupation.
When you see the brave humans resorting to suicide bombings against the technologicaly advanced Cylons (who are guided by 'God' ) then it should make you wonder.

For those who don't know what I'm talking about, go watch Battle Star Galactica, or just simply nod; smile politely and post a +1

So villa i don't think i ever got an answer, are you actualy muslim?

[Villa]

I noticed references to a lot of things. Did you notice how in the miniseries the swearing in of president laura roslin was a direct reference to the swearing in of lindon b. johnson?

link (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cc/Lyndon_B._Johnson_taking_the_oath_of_off ice%2C_November_1963.jpg)

oh you didn't?

everything you've mentioned so far is so freaking general. listen, every major leader in the history of time has invoked their maker(s) when trying to convince the general population that war is a good idea.

your ideas reek of armchair philosophy.

all you've done is say that there are so many things that relate to it. the only actual one that you've mentioned is how the cylons believe in god and that somehow means that the cylons are metaphorical americans. that is a stupid assumption and you should feel stupid for thinking it.

die in a fire.
I have seen no other TV series where they make as many references in such a short period of time to a current ongoing scenario.
Let me refresh your limited capacity with some examples that spring to mind from the first 2 or 3 episodes of Season 3 of BSG -

A technologicaly superior race invades another because they have had visions from their God telling them to do so.
Collaborators.
Puppet Government.
Insurgency.
Suicide Bombings.
Detention Camps.
Prisoner Abuse.
Collateral Damage.
A Police Force that abuses it's own people.
The invaders trying to force a system upon the occupied 'for their own good'.

There are probably more examples.
All of these things can be found in the first few episodes of season 3.
All of these things can be directly linked to Iraq.

Can these things be traced to other conflicts and places? yes, but not all of these examples and not all at the same time.

Seems to me that the role reversal shown in these episodes is too much for the average republican sheep to stomach, thus denial takes over.

[Matriel]

Sounds like the British Empire if you ask me. Must be why they are falling apart.

[Barbarossa]

Hmmm, I watched this show pretty regularly until this past season but for the life of me I fail to remember seeing:

Osama Bin Laden - Executive Producer

anywhere when the credits roll.

[Villa]

Hmmm, I watched this show pretty regularly until this past season but for the life of me I fail to remember seeing:

Osama Bin Laden - Executive Producer

anywhere when the credits roll.

Could it be because Iraq and Afghanistan (Forgetting New Caprica for a moment) are two different places?
Duh... remember that chat we had last year about your grasp of geography?

[Barbarossa]

Could it be because Iraq and Afghanistan (Forgetting New Caprica for a moment) are two different places?
Duh... remember that chat we had last year about your grasp of geography?


So you are saying the Bin Laden has no influence in countries that have extremist muslims then?

Quit being so subversive Villa, if you want to spout off pro-radical islam, don't hide behind a television show.

Just come right out and say what you want to say. You'll feel better.

[Villa]

So you are saying the Bin Laden has no influence in countries that have extremist muslims then?

Quit being so subversive Villa, if you want to spout off pro-radical islam, don't hide behind a television show.

Just come right out and say what you want to say. You'll feel better.
Bin Laden had no influence in Iraq prior to your beloved leader receiving instructions from God.
Saddam's ideology and that espoused by AQ were at odds.

Of course that is all a moot point now since the War on Terror has actually drawn terrorists into Iraq where previously there were none.

[Gunther TheBlack]

A technologicaly superior race invades another because they have had visions from their God telling them to do so.
Collaborators.
Puppet Government.
Insurgency.
Suicide Bombings/attacks.
Detention Camps.
Prisoner Abuse.
Collateral Damage.
A Police Force that abuses it's own people.
The invaders trying to force a system upon the occupied 'for their own good'.



Basically sounds like every war in history.

You really need to read up on medieval European history.


You just see what you wanna see, Villa. I'd expected no less of a person with low rational mental capacities.

[Fro]

Sounds like the British Empire if you ask me. Must be why they are falling apart.

its already fallen apart, unlike the american empire which is starting to fall apart. Irony

Bin Laden had no influence in Iraq prior to your beloved leader receiving instructions from God.
Saddam's ideology and that espoused by AQ were at odds.

Of course that is all a moot point now since the War on Terror has actually drawn terrorists into Iraq where previously there were none.

Yeh but you're wrong, some person on the tele said so. Oh and answer my question please.

[Fro]

Basically sounds like every war in history.

You really need to read up on medieval European history.


You just see what you wanna see, Villa. I'd expected no less of a person with low rational mental capacities.

I'd rather see what I wanted to see than what some other asshole wanted me to see.

[Kebek]

its already fallen apart, unlike the american empire which is starting to fall apart. Irony

That's what he meant. Just like the British empire fell apart the US empire is now falling apart.

[Fro]

That's what he meant. Just like the British empire fell apart the US empire is now falling apart.

Oh yeh, now that i actualy bothered to read what he said it seems i just repeated it, sorry :(. Its still ironic how empire hating america is now an empire.

[Villa]

Basically sounds like every war in history.

You really need to read up on medieval European history.


You just see what you wanna see, Villa. I'd expected no less of a person with low rational mental capacities.
So umm... which medieval European conflict were the BSG writers trying to reference?
Please include examples of detention camps, puppet government, prisoner abuse suicide bombings etc etc all in the one conflict.
Please do tell; I am intrigued when you dismiss the obvious (Iraq) in favour of something vague.

You really should move to the US; your defence of the neo cons is amazing.

[Matriel]

That's what he meant. Just like the British empire fell apart the US empire is now falling apart.

Actually I was talking about the cylons. Since you know this thread was about BSG.

[Gunther TheBlack]

So umm... which medieval European conflict were the BSG writers trying to reference?
Please include examples of detention camps, puppet government, prisoner abuse suicide bombings etc etc all in the one conflict.
Please do tell; I am intrigued when you dismiss the obvious (Iraq) in favour of something vague.

You really should move to the US; your defence of the neo cons is amazing.

First one that pops into my mind is the dutch revolt/80 years'war. Off course there was a shitload more torture back then hehe and the nobles were the puppets of the spanish leaders back then. Lots of mercenary armies as well.

It's a lot more complex than the iraq invasion tho.

Suicide bombings weren't really available then but people did suicide attacks. Like throwing themselves onto the pikes of enemies trying to hold them together with their own body so others could go through the gap created and attack the enemy.

The Spanish fury in Antwerp is also something that is a shitload more dramatic than anything that happened in iraq.


Pfft the war in iraq isn't worthy to be called a war tbh. Barely anything bad happened there compared to the real wars of old days.
It's basically a pussified modern version of war.

[Kebek]

Actually I was talking about the cylons. Since you know this thread was about BSG.

Lol, I wasn't even talking about you?!

[Villa]

Sorry Villa, I havn't watched the TV show in question, have no idea of the subject matter, but I will nonetheless post my opinions as though I am knowledgeable. P.S. I designed the Cylons.

Fixed.

[Desperado[1G]]

Fixed.

Forumfall accepts your concession

[Gunther TheBlack]

Fixed.

As expected.

The war in Iraq is nothing special at all. There's only one thing special about it, it's happening now.

[SkullPizza]

You really should move to the US; your defence of the neo cons is amazing.

what does disagreeing about whether or not the iraq war is the motivation for the plot of BSG have to do with defending neocons? once again you jump to another ridiculously idiotic conclusion

disagreeing about plot metaphors does not equal loving united states foreign policy.

even your insults are empty worthless and stupid

[Gunther TheBlack]

I'd rather see what I wanted to see than what some other asshole wanted me to see.

Duh, off course.

But you should be able to view it as objective as possible. That requires a logical or rational brain opposed to an emotional brain.

Think with your brains instead of with your hearth. That's basically what i meant.

[Villa]

what does disagreeing about whether or not the iraq war is the motivation for the plot of BSG have to do with defending neocons? once again you jump to another ridiculously idiotic conclusion

disagreeing about plot metaphors does not equal loving united states foreign policy.

even your insults are empty worthless and stupid
The people most likely to swerve around and dismiss compelling evidence are those that have something to lose from it. In this case the the comparison is between A TV show and American foreign policy in Iraq, thus it is neo cons with their 'world police' foreign intervention ideology that are likely to deny the connections and evidence here.

Bush apologists and neo cons. Always on the defensive now that their time of glory is likely coming to an end.

So Skullpizza, which are you? a neo con or a generic Bush apologist?

[SkullPizza]

The people most likely to swerve around and dismiss compelling evidence are those that have something to lose from it. In this case the the comparison is between A TV show and American foreign policy in Iraq, thus it is neo cons with their 'world police' foreign intervention ideology that are likely to deny the connections and evidence here.

Bush apologists and neo cons. Always on the defensive now that their time of glory is likely coming to an end.

So Skullpizza, which are you? a neo con or a generic Bush apologist?

hahaha, oh man... what do i have to lose exactly if they did write the third season of BSG to mirror the iraq invasion? oh that's right! nothing!

the entire basis for your argument is flawed, even if i was what you seem to think i am there would be absolutely no reason for me to deny someone shedding a poor light on the invasion of iraq through science fiction metaphor.

i find your ultimatum more neocon than anything. it reeks of the "your either for the iraq invasion or your a bad american" rhetoric that many of the neocon radio gasbags would blurt out over the past few years.

when i picture you speaking it's not words that come out but pustular diarrhea.

your argument method seems to make you have more in common with neocons than me.

[Nafelos]

The American Empire is rooted in co-operation with other Democracies and Non-Democracies with similar interests. The American Empire thrives through influence, multi-lateral action, diplomacy, and co-operation with Non Governmental Organizations suchs as The Red Cross, Doctors Without Borders etc. Islamic Fundamentalism is a very reversable movement, and does little to actually collapse America's influence. The only real threat to our Empire has been the refusal of the last 3 administrations to re-organize the Execuitive branch for the 21st century. That, and goin in TEXAS STYLE in Iraq kind of boned us.

[Villa]

baaa baa baa baaaaa ba ba baaa baaaaa baaa baaaa baa baaa
Sorry I don't speak Republican.

[Estrang]

If you watch the first few episodes of season 3, Battle Star Galactica, you cannot fail to notice the Iraq references.

I applaud the writers for taking the current situation in Iraq and turning it around and presenting it in a way that perhaps might make the average conservative xenophobe reassess his country's role in the occupation.
When you see the brave humans resorting to suicide bombings against the technologicaly advanced Cylons (who are guided by 'God' ) then it should make you wonder.

For those who don't know what I'm talking about, go watch Battle Star Galactica, or just simply nod; smile politely and post a +1

Could you really say Sadam Hussein is somebody that you respected for making your country a better place, all things aside? Hypothetical question

[Villa]

Could you really say Sadam Hussein is somebody that you respected for making your country a better place, all things aside? Hypothetical question
Not sure that this is relevent, but I'll play.
Iraq under Saddam was stable and a far better place than it is now that the Cylo... Americans are here.
He ensured there were few problems - clearly through dubious and sometimes nasty means, but certainly it was a safer place for sure.

[Spart]

Villa, you can't win this arguement, simply because of who you are. Not because of the islamic thing, but because of how you argue with people. When people start to make serious arguements, and points that could refute yours, you throw up a very weak defence, and then start wildly accussing them of being the thing you hate so much. It just doesn't work, because everyone here can see what you are doing.

Try to put together an arguement without insulting the other person. Take a bit of time, you don't have to reply immediately, make sure it actually works as an arguement, and then post it. Remember- no insults.

I don't really think you can win in this thread, since none of the references are very specific, and other than the few refereneces that require a bit more technology, are nothing new. Suicide bombing itself does not relate directly to Iraq, or even fighting America, it is just a logical progression of tactics.

[Nafelos]

Sorry I don't speak Republican.

You are one sad individual.

[Villa]

Unless you've actually seen the thing, there really isn't much point in trying to argue is there?
I mean, I have no knowledge of astro physics, so I'm not likely to argue with a NASA scientist.

Anyway clearly I'm not the only one who sees the NUMEROUS references towards Iraq -
in contrast, with the New Caprica storyline the show's humans have been discussed as an allegory not for an America under attack, but for an occupied people mounting an insurgency, and turning to suicide bombings as a tactic. There is a consensus that with "its third season, the show has morphed into a stinging allegorical critique of America’s three-year occupation of Iraq"[9] as the "cameras record Cylon occupation raids on unsuspecting human civilians with the night-vision green familiar to any TV news viewer. And the reasoning of the Cylons is horrifically familiar: They would prefer not to be brutal, but they won't accept the failure of a glorious mission."[8] According to Slate "If this sounds like Iraq, it should",[8] and "In unmistakable terms, Battlestar Galactica is telling viewers that insurgency (like, say, the one in Iraq) might have some moral flaws, such as the whole suicide bombing thing, but is ultimately virtuous and worthy of support."[8] The "really audacious stroke of this season was showing us a story about a suicide bomber from the point of view of the bomber and his comrades... because the cause of this terrorist was unquestioningly our own. We sympathize with the insurgents wholeheartedly."[5] If the Cylon occupying force is an allegory of the Coalition Forces in Iraq, then some of the other references are equally controversial, for example, the "scene of the shiny, terrifying Cylon centurions (a servant class of robots that actually look like robots) marching down the main road of New Caprica while the devastated colonists looked on was the Nazis marching into Paris."[5]

Although David Eick has said the production staff "don't need to say 'OK, let's do the episode where we're gonna do the Abu Ghraib scandal'", and points out that events depicted on New Caprica "are as much a story rooted in political tales like the Vichy France or Vietnam" rather than current events, he acknowledges that they "do gravitate in those directions when it comes to the storytelling".
Any of you Cylon lovers got anything to say?

[Nafelos]

Unless you've actually seen the thing, there really isn't much point in trying to argue is there?
I mean, I have no knowledge of astro physics, so I'm not likely to argue with a NASA scientist.

Anyway clearly I'm not the only one who sees the NUMEROUS references towards Iraq -

Any of you Cylon lovers got anything to say?

Is it your nap time yet?

[Killuminati]

Sorry I don't speak Republican.

Get your encoder ring out.

[Kebek]

Can't argue with Villa about Iraq being more stable under Saddam. There were a lot less Cylons dying back then as well.

[Villa]

Is it your nap time yet?
Translation: I have nothing of value to add and find myself flummoxed, thus I shall do a variation of Guybrush Threepwood's "You are rubber I am glue" epic fail.

[Spart]

Unless you've actually seen the thing, there really isn't much point in trying to argue is there?
I mean, I have no knowledge of astro physics, so I'm not likely to argue with a NASA scientist.

Anyway clearly I'm not the only one who sees the NUMEROUS references towards Iraq -

Any of you Cylon lovers got anything to say?

I like this argument. Very well put together, strong point, and the insult at the end wasn't the main part of it. Nice.

Although, if that is honestly what the creators of the show believe is unique to the Iraq war, they really need to read some books on warfare. Everyone claims god is compelling them to kill others, but it gets the masses on your side. Everyone says they are doing it for the other peoples own good, because then the soldiers and the people actually feel good about subjugating the others. Raids on random civilians aren't exactly new either, and suicide bombing is the best way the weaker military force can fight back. I'm willing to bet that in 50 years, all of this will be common to any war, not just the few more recent ones.

[Villa]

I like this argument. Very well put together, strong point, and the insult at the end wasn't the main part of it. Nice.

Although, if that is honestly what the creators of the show believe is unique to the Iraq war, they really need to read some books on warfare. Everyone claims god is compelling them to kill others, but it gets the masses on your side. Everyone says they are doing it for the other peoples own good, because then the soldiers and the people actually feel good about subjugating the others. Raids on random civilians aren't exactly new either, and suicide bombing is the best way the weaker military force can fight back. I'm willing to bet that in 50 years, all of this will be common to any war, not just the few more recent ones.
Perhaps, but what I found interesting was the (IMO) attempt at a role reversal where it looks like the good faction can be identified with Iraqis and the bad faction with the current occupational forces. Haven't really seen that done too often with this much strength and determination about a current ongoing campaign.

[Nafelos]

Translation: I have nothing of value to add and find myself flummoxed, thus I shall do a variation of Guybrush Threepwood's "You are rubber I am glue" epic fail.

You are a hopeless.

[heroshade]

Weren't you going to stop making retard threads villa?

That was villuin

[heroshade]

Insurgency.
Suicide Bombings.
Detention Camps.
Prisoner Abuse.
Collateral Damage.
A Police Force that abuses it's own people.
The invaders trying to force a system upon the occupied 'for their own good'

Because these things are only connected with the Iraq war and not war in general? *GASP* the Japs flew planes into carriers in WWII! The guy who flys into the mothership at the end of Independance Day must be a direct reference to World War 2! OMFGHAXLOLROFLCOPTER ect, ect.

[Reckun]

If you watch the first few episodes of season 3, Battle Star Galactica, you cannot fail to notice the Iraq references.

I applaud the writers for taking the current situation in Iraq and turning it around and presenting it in a way that perhaps might make the average conservative xenophobe reassess his country's role in the occupation.
When you see the brave humans resorting to suicide bombings against the technologicaly advanced Cylons (who are guided by 'God' ) then it should make you wonder.

For those who don't know what I'm talking about, go watch Battle Star Galactica, or just simply nod; smile politely and post a +1

I hate how you try to single out an entire group of people that all have different opinions on things.

[Desperado[1G]]

why hasn't this troll been ip banned yet?

[Reckun]

;1524456']why hasn't this troll been ip banned yet?

dunno im still stumped on that as well :confused:

[Zuku]

I like this argument. Very well put together, strong point, and the insult at the end wasn't the main part of it. Nice.

Although, if that is honestly what the creators of the show believe is unique to the Iraq war, they really need to read some books on warfare. Everyone claims god is compelling them to kill others, but it gets the masses on your side. Everyone says they are doing it for the other peoples own good, because then the soldiers and the people actually feel good about subjugating the others. Raids on random civilians aren't exactly new either, and suicide bombing is the best way the weaker military force can fight back. I'm willing to bet that in 50 years, all of this will be common to any war, not just the few more recent ones.

This does nothing to change the fact that BSG season 3 on New Caprica WAS AN ALLEGORY. Period. You asked him to provide evidence supporting his contention and he did. Then you chose to attack the allegory WHICH IS ENTIRELY BESIDE THE POINT.

And oddly enough, everyone in this thread who disagreed with Villa used the tactics you attributed to him which has nothing to do with you. It's just funny.

Villa proved his point that BSG on New Caprica was an allegory which was blatantly obvious.

[Zuku]

;1524456']why hasn't this troll been ip banned yet?

Welcome to Forumfall. Stay or leave but don't ask the mods to do your heavy lifting. 'Specially after Villa backed up his OP with quotes from BSG production staff.

[Spart]

This does nothing to change the fact that BSG season 3 on New Caprica WAS AN ALLEGORY. Period. You asked him to provide evidence supporting his contention and he did. Then you chose to attack the allegory WHICH IS ENTIRELY BESIDE THE POINT.

And oddly enough, everyone in this thread who disagreed with Villa used the tactics you attributed to him which has nothing to do with you. It's just funny.

Villa proved his point that BSG on New Caprica was an allegory which was blatantly obvious.

First up, you realise attacking the allegory is an argument right? By attacking it (i.e. saying it is wrong) I am arguing against it. How is arguing against the allegory entirely beside the point?

Yea, I know everyone was doing the same thing Villa was, but I really want to see Villa make them all look like idiots.

I'm not saying that it can't be used as an allegory to the Iraq war, I'm just saying it is a remarkably bad one. I'm assuming it's in the future (if not, my argument falls down, and you win), in which case the tactics would have evolved to the point where this would all be used on a regular basis. So it could easily be believed that the creators were just trying to keep up with the 'in the future' theme.
When you have to actually point out that your show is meant to be representative of something else, then you fail rather hard.

[Villa]

Because these things are only connected with the Iraq war and not war in general? *GASP* the Japs flew planes into carriers in WWII! The guy who flys into the mothership at the end of Independance Day must be a direct reference to World War 2! OMFGHAXLOLROFLCOPTER ect, ect.
I think you missed the part where I said SOME of those things may have happened elsewhere in other conflicts, but not every single one of them happened anywhere else but Iraq - especially given the timing.
When something is in front of your face jumping up and down for attention, why ignore it in favour of something you know even less about? is it because you don't like what is being implied thus hoping it will go away if you look elsewhere?

[Zuku]

First up, you realise attacking the allegory is an argument right? By attacking it (i.e. saying it is wrong) I am arguing against it. How is arguing against the allegory entirely beside the point?

Yea, I know everyone was doing the same thing Villa was, but I really want to see Villa make them all look like idiots.

I'm not saying that it can't be used as an allegory to the Iraq war, I'm just saying it is a remarkably bad one. I'm assuming it's in the future (if not, my argument falls down, and you win), in which case the tactics would have evolved to the point where this would all be used on a regular basis. So it could easily be believed that the creators were just trying to keep up with the 'in the future' theme.
When you have to actually point out that your show is meant to be representative of something else, then you fail rather hard.

No what you did was attack that it was an allegory at all:
"I don't really think you can win in this thread, since none of the references are very specific, and other than the few refereneces that require a bit more technology, are nothing new. Suicide bombing itself does not relate directly to Iraq, or even fighting America, it is just a logical progression of tactics."

Villa made two contentions in his OP: that it was an allegory and that the allegory was meant to be an object lesson. You never addressed the second contention and only discussed the first as did most posters to disagree that it was an allegory for the situation in Iraq.

After Villa proved it was an allegory in the minds of the BSG producers, writers, etc, then you decided to attack the aptness of the allegory. The aptness of the allegory is beside the point.

Villa: It's an allegory.
Everyone else: No.
You: I need to see more evidence.
Villa: Here's the evidence.
You: Well, it's a horrible allegory.
Me: So? You're entitled to your opinion but it's still an allegory.

[Barbarossa]

Looks like Villa has found his third follower and a potential pivot man.


Let the circle jerk begin!

[Spart]

No what you did was attack that it was an allegory at all:
"I don't really think you can win in this thread, since none of the references are very specific, and other than the few refereneces that require a bit more technology, are nothing new. Suicide bombing itself does not relate directly to Iraq, or even fighting America, it is just a logical progression of tactics."

Villa made two contentions in his OP: that it was an allegory and that the allegory was meant to be an object lesson. You never addressed the second contention and only discussed the first as did most posters to disagree that it was an allegory for the situation in Iraq.

After Villa proved it was an allegory in the minds of the BSG producers, writers, etc, then you decided to attack the aptness of the allegory. The aptness of the allegory is beside the point.

Villa: It's an allegory.
Everyone else: No.
You: I need to see more evidence.
Villa: Here's the evidence.
You: Well, it's a horrible allegory.
Me: So? You're entitled to your opinion but it's still an allegory.

Why would anyone argue against that? If you prove it be an allegory, then it is going to be true, if you prove it not to be an allegory, then it is false.

Anyway, I don't really think there is anymore for me to say. We all know that in the minds of the BSG producers it is an allegory. I don't believe it is that great, but that doesn't matter. And I do hope that it would at least point out some stuff to certain people of the American nation.

I like that you actually looked over the thread before making an argument. Not something that is often seen on the internet, and forumfall is especially bad for it.

[Milo Hobgoblin]

If you watch the first few episodes of season 3, Battle Star Galactica, you cannot fail to notice the Iraq references.

I applaud the writers for taking the current situation in Iraq and turning it around and presenting it in a way that perhaps might make the average conservative xenophobe reassess his country's role in the occupation.
When you see the brave humans resorting to suicide bombings against the technologicaly advanced Cylons (who are guided by 'God' ) then it should make you wonder.

For those who don't know what I'm talking about, go watch Battle Star Galactica, or just simply nod; smile politely and post a +1

I know exactly what your talking about.. it appears the producers tried to creat that grey morality by having the cyclons seem more "human" by making their morals somewhat American and making the humans paganists..

cute trick. But only a complete dumbfuck wouldnt see right through it.

[Villa]

I know exactly what your talking about.. it appears the producers tried to creat that grey morality by having the cyclons seem more "human" by making their morals somewhat American and making the humans paganists..

cute trick. But only a complete dumbfuck wouldnt see right through it.
Who would you rather... Xena Warrior Pricess, Boomer or Six?

[Tharkon Fargor]

If you watch the first few episodes of season 3, Battle Star Galactica, you cannot fail to notice the Iraq references.

I applaud the writers for taking the current situation in Iraq and turning it around and presenting it in a way that perhaps might make the average conservative xenophobe reassess his country's role in the occupation.
When you see the brave humans resorting to suicide bombings against the technologicaly advanced Cylons (who are guided by 'God' ) then it should make you wonder.

For those who don't know what I'm talking about, go watch Battle Star Galactica, or just simply nod; smile politely and post a +1


^.o R0x

[Gaal]

I applaud the writers for taking the current situation in Iraq and turning it around and presenting it in a way that perhaps might make the average conservative xenophobe reassess his country's role in the occupation.
When you see the brave humans resorting to suicide bombings against the technologicaly advanced Cylons (who are guided by 'God' ) then it should make you wonder.



There's nothing brave about blowing yourself up in a town market and killing hundreds of innocent people.

[Barbarossa]

There's nothing brave about blowing yourself up in a town market and killing hundreds of innocent people.

That's how you get the 70 virgins...unfortunately, no one has explained to these idiots there are no virgins in hell, only well used whores.

[Gaal]

That's how you get the 70 virgins...unfortunately, no one has explained to these idiots there are no virgins in hell, only well used whores.

And you get a pineapple shoved up your ass!

[heroshade]

Neither is killing four thousand innocent, unexpecting, hard-working people. I hope you fucking burn in hell Villa.

[Kebek]

Neither is killing four thousand innocent, unexpecting, hard-working people. I hope you fucking burn in hell Villa.


Like some people said. If they are capable of doing it they have every right to do it. (not that I share this childish view)

[heroshade]

Like some people said. If they are capable of doing it they have every right to do it. (not that I share this childish view)

I've heard theres more oil under Los Angelas than in Kuwait. If this is true we should blow up L.A. and get out oil from there, thus ridding Americans of not only the gas crisis, but Los Angelas as well.

[Milo Hobgoblin]

Who would you rather... Xena Warrior Pricess, Boomer or Six?

None of em actually I like stupid big tits and not one of em qualifies.. (dontget me wrong Id fuck all three.. but if your giving me choices.. :D )

[Villa]

That's how you get the 70 virgins...unfortunately, no one has explained to these idiots there are no virgins in hell, only well used whores.
72 actually.
Just cos your currency has devalued a little, don't try and pass off the difference to me :(

[heroshade]

72 actually.
Just cos your currency has devalued a little, don't try and pass off the difference to me :(

Why virgins? Also, does it ever say the virgins are girls? What if they are virgin males who are ment to reteach you the ways of virgin purity.

[Villa]

Why virgins? Also, does it ever say the virgins are girls? What if they are virgin males who are ment to reteach you the ways of virgin purity.
I was actually hoping for some Pina Coladas and Margaritas.

[Gaal]

Religion is for the weak.

[Villa]

Religion is for the weak.
Meak in fact.
No really.

[Kebek]

Also, does it ever say the virgins are girls?

No need to say la female virgine is there?

[Tiberias]

Why virgins? Also, does it ever say the virgins are girls? What if they are virgin males who are ment to reteach you the ways of virgin purity.

It's not virgins, it's 72 white grapes. It's been mistranslated:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Syro-Aramaic_Reading_Of_The_Koran

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2002/jan/12/books.guardianreview5

I hope they like fruit!

[Kebek]

It's not virgins, it's 72 white grapes. It's been mistranslated:


Says wikipedia.

[Tiberias]

Says wikipedia.

ROFL do you not even look at the sources and references page?


http://www.goethe.de/ges/phi/deindex.htm
http://chiesa.espresso.repubblica.it/articolo/7025?eng=y
http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2002/jan/12/books.guardianreview5
http://www.nd.edu/~reynolds/theo30217/abstracts.htm
http://www.lebanonwire.com/0307/03071213DS.asp

[Kebek]

ROFL do you not even look at the sources and references page?


No. Wikipedia lies.

[Tiberias]

No. Wikipedia lies.

K, then comment on the other links then. Come back after you've read it or admit you are Yin's horrible horrible troll alt.

[Kebek]

Come back after you've read it or admit you are Yin's horrible horrible troll alt.

More wild statements without proof? Go on...

[Tiberias]

More wild statements without proof? Go on...

Did you read any of the things in those links or the professor's book?

[Kebek]

Prove that I'm Yin, earn some credibility again. Perhaps then I'll consider your statements.

[Villa]

Oh nose, my thread has been derailed:(

[Tiberias]

Prove that I'm Yin, earn some credibility again. Perhaps then I'll consider your statements.

Haha, nice attempt to redirect. You can choose to remain blind to the truth for as long as you like, but the links and books are there. You refuse to learn, and just like you have shown since you first appeared here, you can do nothing but change the subject.

PS LOL @ credibility comment Mr American-Indian-Polish-French-Italian Martial Arts Commando Muslim.

[Kebek]

Haha, nice attempt to redirect.

Coming from the kid that calls others trolls as soon as he's had his ass handed to him that means very little to me.

[Tiberias]

Coming from the kid that calls others trolls as soon as he's had his ass handed to him that means very little to me.

Did you read the links?

[Kebek]

I advise you to stop wasting effort by addressing me. Trolls like yourself only desire attention. I decided to ignore you.

starting.....NOW!

So to repeat my statement: No need to say la female virgine is there?

[Tiberias]

I advise you to stop wasting effort by addressing me. Trolls like yourself only desire attention. I decided to ignore you.

starting.....NOW!

So to repeat my statement: No need to say la female virgine is there?

Ha, trolling? I do my share, but not in this case. I provided ample links to a legit academic field of study that claims that there are no 72 virgins. Choose to be ignorant and blind to the truth if you wish, Kebek. I'll take your ignoring as admitting defeat.

[Tiberias]

Gonna add "Defeater of Kebek" to my sig!

[heroshade]

No. Wikipedia lies.

Yin would have mispelled all of that, so it's not him.

[Tharkon Fargor]

K, then comment on the other links then. Come back after you've read it or admit you are Yin's horrible horrible troll alt.

Wikipedia truly lies. And most sources in most cases are from one time articles in some newspaper (big or small).

I don't know what you're even talking about but once a Wikipedian supporter I now try my best not to use that shit anymore.

[Tiberias]

Wikipedia truly lies. And most sources in most cases are from one time articles in some newspaper (big or small).

I don't know what you're even talking about but once a Wikipedian supporter I now try my best not to use that shit anymore.

Jesus, does nobody read fucking anything? Read the linked resources, or buy the book and read it yourself. Wikipedia is fine and dandy if sourced well and you do your own further research to make sure it's not BS. I would characterize it as a fine starting point for further investigation.

[Tharkon Fargor]

Most things are sources by what some journalist in some newspaper has said once. Most things are sourced only once to.

And who sources the journalists?
In contradiction to journalists, "scientists" and "science reports" quote their own sources so you can backtrack them.

Also various people keep editing wikipedia for their own interests including US army, CIA, Corporations, NGO's and just random individuals involved in things.

Not to mention the editing that goes on between people with different opinions (I'm not even counting that).


PS: This thread is crap anyway so I'm just hijacking it and making it into a Wikipedia discussion.

Some Wikipedia pages hold up and yours might be one of them this time. I've not even checked it. I'm just saying I despise Wikipedia.


EDIT: But I like it to sometimes :S It gives people an easy way to add new facts and just gives a bunch of info about like random animals and items and things like this which would be hard to find otherwise.